Yes Bruce I want to say thank you for clarifying things; I feel that now maybe some newbies will join in here and not be afraid we are religious freaks and set in our ways and therefore they would not share with us what is going on in their own lives, and I am very interested to hear from newbies whatever country they come from. the time has come where religious misinterpretations are falling by the wayside; we may be watching it's death throes this minute and not even be fully aware of it. We will only keep the biblical verses which cannot be misinterpreted; such as tolerance, love for one another; perhaps these cannot be misinterpreted? well, probably they could!   over here and with others like Mair too, we are talking about that Bruce is on the board!
it is one happy day for us...again, Ram, Happy Birthday! love, alysia

Thank you Bruce. I feel more energy already.

Love, Carolyn

Don,

I have been a supporter of yours, despite your harsh personal remarks because I see a different side of you.  I too don't like any bullying comments, I don't like the term "new age ghetto," or lumping people on the site together as if they were a group of deluded college age hippies on an acid trip.  That being said, you have a keen intellect, you are exceptionally well read and you have an ability to glean the true meaning of many discussions and get to the heart of things.

Don, I also see in your posts, a yearning to cross the threshold that holds you back from exploring like Bruce, RAM, Swedenborg and Robert Bruce.  I agree with Alyssia.  I think there is a "new ager," yearning to break free.  Proof of this is readily seen in your posts; you say that when you leave this site, you plan to practice from a well written text on astral projection and use hemi-sync CDs.  The entire system of hemi-sync, and the gateway series is based on not just the technology, but the New Age system that you so readily criticize.  Astral projection is not that far from TMI.  Don't you find this ironic?  Yet you are coming from a regimented intellectual/academic background that functions as a belief system.  (I know it well being an academic physician).  I believe you have had more mystical experiences than most, but that to make the leap you are looking for, you will have to, like Robert Bruce break down your belief system and recreate it from scratch.  Only you can say if you would do this. 

You are a breath of fresh air in christian thought, as you are open to the idea of a truly spiritual christian, not tied to conventional Roman Catholic dogma or interpretation of the bible.  You have tied the heart of Jesus' teachings into what is thought of as new age thought, and left the door open for others to join you.  For this alone, your contributions to this board have been monumental.

Don, as a third party reading these postings, I must say that I don't think Bruce's feeling that he is part of the same disc as RAM is at all contradicted by RAM saying he had onlye one parallel incarnation as a woman.  These two people (Bruce and RAM) are insightful human beings giving you their best impressions of personal spiritual experiences.  As such, if let us say one were "wrong," it would not be a devastating contradiction.  Rather, it would be an impression that missed the mark.  As Dave so eloquently says on the board "BFD."  A disc member of a  higher self, as I understand it is not the same as a parallel incarnation.  I too have trouble with the idea that spirit can subdivide itself into different simultaneous personalities.  However, there is no right answer to this.  If we are all one with God, in a way, God  has divided his essence into a legion of individualities.  I can't pretend to understand that fully.

The loopy RAM stories that you cite have to be taken in context with his overall writings, teachings and experiences.  Why does he write of them if they sound crazy? Perhaps out of honesty, to show it all; good, bad or ugly.  The interpreter, as Bruce calls it, in RAM may have been off in those instances, but not in others.  I for one take those tales as personal experiences of RAM, and don't try to over-read anything into them.  All people are fallible be they Swedenborg, Robert Bruce, RAM or you and me. 

To sum up, Don, I hope you will not let the drubbing you are getting stop you from posting in the future.  Bruce's comments hurt because they were, to some extent right on the mark.  Why not swallow your pride, and admit that you might have been a bit bullying and heavy handed?  Why not continue a dialogue with myself and others here without the negative comments?  Your points would still be made; certainly you have the eloquence to do this.


Matthew

Don,

I guess it is also to be expected that your response would continue in your bullying and belittling, name-calling, discrediting, intimidating style.  Don, it's just not acceptable behavior.  If it doesn't stop soon you won't have to worry about leaving the site and never posting again, you'll be banned from this site.  I am sick and tired of visitors here being called names, belittled, bullied and discredited for expressing their beliefs and sharing their experiences. Do you even understand what I'm talking about?

>>  In his college days, RAM gained acclaim for a play he wrote.  It is his creativity as a playwright that is on display in 3 of his obviously delusory past life experiences during supposed OBEs:   <<

Don, that's not and "honest direct question, that's a name calling insult.  You don't believe Monroe's descriptions of his experiences, that's fine.  But to call him "obviously delusory" don't you see the difference between asking an "honest direct question" and calling Monroe delusionary?  Don that's a violation of the posting guidelines for these forums.  That's kind of thing that causes me to I get so many Peer Moderator complaints asking me to ban you from this site.  Don, your tendency when you don't agree with someone is resort to naming calling, discrediting and belittling attacks on anyone and every one.

>>  you and your graduates have not given me the courtesy of direct replies. <<

Don, people don't reply to you because they know that it will most likely lead to being verbally attack by you.  It's ironic you use the word "courtesy" here.  If you had used courtesy in your dealings with others here you'd have gotten far more replies.  As it is there are some here who have been willing to overlook your ill treatment of others, myself among them, because often there is value in what you have to say.  You are obviously an intelligent, well-read, deep thinker, but your people skills could use a little work.

>>  The credibility problem with RAM's reincarnation "memories" is much more serious and, once again, you conveniently ducked my critique.  So I feel compelled to repeat my critique.  <<

Duck your critique?  You call that a critique?   Don, this is not a critique, it is a belittling, naming-calling attack of Monroe's description of his experiences.

>> The combination of prehistoric and modern technological motifs exposes the delusion here.  <<

If you had said you didn't understand how could be possible for his description of his experience to be true, I might have a way to dialogue about that.  But instead your style is call Monroe delusional and extend your invitation for someone to argue you out of that position, all this posing as a "critique."

>>  RAM offers an earlier version of this memory in "Far Journeys," 115-16.  The 2 versions contradict each other in enough absurd ways to discredit this whole past life memory.  <<

Here you are calling Monroe a liar, name calling again in a blatant discrediting attack on the man.  Don, I don't care what you believe about the man, his credibility or lack of it, that's your business.  But your attack on him is a violation of the posting guidelines of these forums.  These forums are not venue for attacking and discrediting people for what they believe or share about their experiences.  These forums are a venue for folks to share their experiences, questions, ideas and suggestions, with courtesy.

>>  Equally absurd is RAM's alleged OBE encounter with an alien who emerges from a flying saucer looking like comedian, W. C. Fields. <<

So you believe Monroe's description of his experience is absurd I have no problem with that.  What I do have a problem with is that it is just another of your usual bullying, belittling attacks that violates the posting guidelines of these forums. Just because you don't see Monroe as having credible experiences does not give you the right to express that in style we have all become accustom to from you.

>>  MY COMMENTS: RAM is not alluding here to one parallel incarnation among others.  He discerns that there is only one other member of his "Higher Self" or soul Disk currently on earth.  That is the plain meaning of his statement.  <<

Don, that is your opinion of the "plain meaning" of what he's describing, it is not necessarily the only "plain meaning" of his statement, especially when you take into account what he wrote on the subject of I/There in his other materials.  I suppose someone with a lot of patience could go through everything else Monroe wrote on the subject and point out to you what else he had to say about the matter.  But why would anyone do that when they think your response to what they say will be just be in the form of another name-calling, belittling attack on them for not agreeing with you? 

Don, I've never found a way to learn the truth in these matters by trying to analyze what others write about them. No matter what any writer says about any topic I will ALWAYS find another writer who directly contradicts it.  I am left with trying to choose between various writers based on whatever criteria I chose to judge their credibility.  And these criteria are ALWAYS based on my present beliefs about what is credible and what is not. I never make any progress; I just end up trying to make sense of the mutually conflicting claims of various writers.  That is why I suggest the YOUR OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE is the best course of action.  With it there is the possibility that I will be experience something that conflicts with my beliefs, and I am the only available 'authority' who can determine if it really happened.
 
>>  MY COMMENTS: I take this comment to exclude your status as a parallel incarnation from RAM's soul disk.  <<

That is your opinion based on your analysis of what Monroe had to say on the matter in these few words of one of his books.  Don, you are entitled to your opinion, I have no problem with that.  If you understood more of what Monroe had to say about I/There, maybe your opinion would change, maybe it would not.  What I do have a problem with is that you express your opinion in discrediting, personal attacks on others and me.  As I said before, this is not a venue for that.  If that's what you want to do why don't you create your own website, make up your own posting guidelines, and skewer me there to your heart's content?

>>  So what is the difference between a parallel incarnation and an incarnation of one's "I-There"?  <<

As an analogy, it is the difference between being a member of the same extended family, a cousin, an uncle, a fourth aunt twice removed, and being a clone of a member of the same family.  I/There can be thought of as one's 'family' with members simultaneously existing while living physically on earth, nonphysically, on other planets, within other dimensions, as I/There, etc.  My opinions about things are all explained in the books I've written.  Part of the reason I wrote these books is because I don't have the time in my life to re-explain everything I've experienced or discovered for every person who asks.

>> She rejected the notion of ongoing "contact" with her father. <<

Bob Monroe completely rejected the notion that his own wife, Nancy, could be contacted by anyone more than six moths after her death.  So what!  That was his belief to live by, not mine.   It turned out he was wrong, and it may it very hard for those of us in contact with Nancy talk to Bob about those contacts and pass along her messages to him.

>>  Any normal person would be concerned about this contradiction and you have no right to villefy me for posing it.  <<

Don I didn't villefy you for posting about what in your view is a contradiction, I objected to you violating posting guidelines by your way of attacking and attempting to discredit me with your choice of words.  You didn't just 'pose it' Don.  You turned it into a discrediting attack on me in your typical style. 

So, Laurie didn't believe it, so what.  That's her belief to live by, not mine.  If you want to believe that her beliefs prevent anyone from contacting her dad, that's your choice.  If you see a contraction between her beliefs and my experience that's fine, so what?  But, I see no reason that I should have to explain how or why her beliefs conflict with my experience to satisfy you or anybody else. My experience, good, bad, real, fantasy or whatever is my perception of my experience.  All I can do is share it, if someone chooses not to believe me I have no problem with that.  What I do have a problem with is being personally attacked, called names, belittled, etc. for sharing my experience.  If that's what you want to do, create your own website with your own posting rules and have at it.  Just don't do it here.

>>  I want to know if Laurie has not changed her mind, and if not, why not. <<

If that is what you want, contact her and ask her.

>> This question is particularly acute in view of the astral insights of Robert Bruce and Swedenborg that the deceased soon lose contact with their earth memories. <<

Like I said above Don, if you try to find the truth in the writings of others you get no where.  You will always be able to find another writer who will claim the deceased do not soon lose their earth memories.  Then you are right back to having to choose who is right and who is wrong based on what you presently believe instead of on your own direct experience.

In closing Don, if you can find a way to be courteous and stop your bullying, belittling, intimidating, discrediting and personal attacks on others in your posts here you are welcome to stay.  If not, your posting privileges will be revoked.

Bruce

Bruce said to Don..You are obviously an intelligent, well-read, deep thinker, but your people skills could use a little work.
______

ah, thats about it in a nutshell Don. in your search, whatever, you don't seem to care who you step on to authenticate your beliefs and your sense of being powerful to "save" us from delusion. you alienate far more people than you befriend. Indeed, your purpose is not to be generous with others.
I have thought your true purpose here is to bring the forum down. Not only the forum but all new age thought because you believe we here are like a cult.
I have also thought you have negs hanging off you as you do so love to authenticate possession and the reality of demons.
We have stated here time and time again, which you conveniently ignore, that one attains one's own experience and then chooses their belief system. as I already pointed out, I am convinced you had an authentic obe and you chose to discredit your own experience as not worthwhile to study and gleam another path from it. I waste my breath giving energy of my thought to you as you do not read what we write and are trying to help you see we are not cultists and are not attacking you personally. yes, we are thinking "new" thoughts, but that does not mean we should be labeled, called various names, and you do pick and choose who you respond to, as I have been ignored by you numerous times..is why I ceased talking to you or reading you. I gave up.
I even gave up sharing my experiences here, even though it is something I love doing. It had become your board for sounding.

I know you like to play chess, see, I know how your mind works..you've turned this place into a chess game. and the more people who gather round to watch you play, the better you enjoy yourself. even now you are probably counting the number of views and congratulating yourself on how well you can stir us all up. I admit, it might be boring here without you, on the other hand, I think not. I think without you here, a lot of people would feel free to post their most mind blowing experiences which tells them they are more than they thought they were. we all need to tell our stories, and I've seldom heard any stories from you, other than the one you discredit as real.

maybe you are a part of our disc. maybe you are the one to cause us all to think about what it is we wish to create in this place, maybe thats why all of a sudden as one, we put our foot down, we say stop it Don, we've had enough of the same old, same old. for years, same thing..u never grow, you never change, you just make promises to do that. and I stopped waiting for you to express something real, something kind, something to give hope to a wanderer. but nope, all you can say is watch out for demons. thanks, I think we can handle it.

notice what Bruce says over and over and over. he does not ban you. he's giving a warning. you are in his living room, trashing the place. all he's saying is watch your lip, you are among polite company, like a snotty, hyper little kid with a genious mentality.

I've said way too much.    it's still the number one board for coming together with the like minded and the seekers, and it's a neat place that got created here by the likes of Rosalie, Bruce, Ram and I for one always send gratitude to these people as it gave me a place to talk and get my ideas in order. I've grown as a person here since 2001 and it wasn't accidental I found the place. So what Bruce says, I can understand that. he asked you make yourself a website. There, you can be the big shot you think you are. well, could you do it? would people read you?
maybe not. I just can't say. I think you just prefer to take someone else's website and park there, challenging people to a chess game because you know all the right moves.

whatever. what am I doing? I have a book to finish up, I can't be messing with you either. you won't answer me anyway because you can't hear us.

Quote:


Don, here is a nugget in your post that is thoughtful and worth sharing. The rest please I'd rather see on your own board. Maybe then you could post a link to it with your lectures, challenges, diatribes and heated debates. You could even have your own posting guidelines. I'm serious, I think you'd enjoy having your own forum, and many would come visit.

Love, Carolyn

                        All of us here, everyone of us are bona fide card carrying members of  "The  Club"   The "There is something more out there club" you may be a banker, lawyer, Actor, teacher, Minister, Doctor, author, afterlife explorer, healer, psychic, Medium, tarot reader , well you get the picture but we are all cut from  the same cloth., someplace inside of our Psyche is a nudging and we must seek out others that also share this searching for more. We want to rub elbows with others who are searching the same ,we want to  interact with each other, touch base with "Home" who we truly are,, some may come posed as skeptics some may come posed as a teacher of enlightenment but what they really are here for is to touch base with others from "Home" our true Home. .  There was a tv show here in the states called "Cheers" and the theme song was, You want to go where everyone knows your name .  In Other words you want to go where you can be understood , Some of you who are reading this may say to self , I dont post on there I just read  what has been posted, dont kid yourself you are a card carrying member too or you would not be reading the material posted., its not by accident that you stumbled upon a website such as this one. You know deep inside of you that you are much more than the vehicle you are residing in at the moment and there is more  than what  this three dimensional planet  offers.  For whatever reason you think  you are here, its because you want to belong to this club.  Linn