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A question for Alysia (Read 59981 times)
Marta
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A question for Alysia
Oct 22nd, 2005 at 5:29pm
 
Hi Alysia,

Please, would you be so kind in telling me the number and date of the Elias session, from which you posted an exceprt in the "A shift in consciousness" thread.

And yes, I'm the same Marta....LOL...from years ago in the board.

LOVE
Marta
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #1 - Oct 22nd, 2005 at 5:32pm
 
Hi Marta,

It's great to see you here again. Wink

Love, Mairlyn Wink
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #2 - Oct 22nd, 2005 at 7:43pm
 
hello Marta this was from  Elias transcript mailing list sent out this past week, I get about two a week generally. the one you wish has been deleted. I suppose everyone on the list received the same mailing last week, it says from Bobbi H. perhaps you can ask Bobbi about any sent on oct 21st and can track it down this way. wish I could remember the name of the person Elias was talking to, dang it! I have 103 waiting in my folder to read plus haven't finished reading The Shift, compiled by David Tate. btw, I would never misquote anybody.
I miss reading you! love, alysia
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Marta
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #3 - Oct 22nd, 2005 at 9:35pm
 
Hi Alysia,

I'm registered also in the same list, and I get all the transcripts from the Elias sessions, transcribed by Bobbi, before they got finally published in the Net, in both Elias sites.

Those are the transcripts that were sent in Oct:

Oct 20.
Session #1281
"Confrontation and Validation"
"Allowing a Flexibility of Attention"

Oct 18
Session #907
"Number of Focuses"
"Identifying the Message in the Emotion"

Oct 17
Session #1278
"Creating Scenarios with other people"
"What it means to hold a Dream Walker Aspect"

Oct 11
Session #1277
"Not enough time"
"Why so many Famous Focuses"
"Individual Energy and Politics"

Now, as note, NO transcript is ever deleted, all transcripts once are appoved by the person who has the session to be transcribed...the session becomes transcribed and PUBLISHED....with Mary holding ALL copywrite rights.


Alysia, you might be a fan/student of Elias as you said, but it happens that I have read ALL the sessions, ALL the transcripts as well I had many sessions with Elias myself. Also I'm very close to many people of the Elias Group. which have become my personal friends, besides Mary herself.

Then, I'm very familiar with all the Elias information as well I'm familiar with Elias himself, through my many sessions with him, and I know not only the material very well but also Elias choice of the words, which he is VERY precise in his use.

Elias NEVER has used words that could be in contradiction with his information.

Elias has consistently said that we are not manifested here to get things right, learn, evolve or perfecting anything, that we are already perfect, that we manifest here just to experience.

I asked the number of the session, because as I said, I have read ALL the sessions, and I'm as you getting always the last sessions transcribed too, and what you posted not only I could't recal it, but I saw contradictions and expressions that are not the way Elias uses to express himself.

I'm aware that not everyone is so familiar with Elias information, and many people are unable to see what comes from Elias and what doesn't, it requires a very deep understanding and knowledge of his information, not just reading some transcripts, but being depply involved with his information in our personal experiences. I can say I'm, as I had experienced his information personally and go beyond the concepts.

You said: Hi, Elias fan/student here, he channels thru Mary, I get the transcripts, take what I need, throw out the rest.

First, Elias doesn't channel through Mary, the action that both essences are involved (plus 12 essences more) is an essence energy exchange, which is very different to the action of channeling in which all the information is filtered through the subjective self of the individual manifested physically, with generates a lot of distortion.

Secondly, there is nothing to throw out from Elias information, unless the individual doesn't want to face and recognize his/her own beliefs and assumed truths, which imply little understanding of the Elias information.

Now, how can be that precisely THIS transcript according to you has been deleted?...when NO transcript is EVER deleted once it has been transcribed, sent  and published.

I will call Mary to find out about it.

LOVE
Marta

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« Last Edit: Oct 22nd, 2005 at 10:37pm by N/A »  
 
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Dora
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #4 - Oct 22nd, 2005 at 10:09pm
 
Marta,

I have the same transcript as you do, and as you know like you, there is no transcript what I haven't read, and over the 3 years since I read Elias I cannot recall any deleted transcript.

I was looking for the excerpt myself what Alysia posted but not on the eliasforum nor the eliasweb "search exact quote" showed up.

It did sparked my interest just because I thought I better do a reality check in my understanding because it was oposite what I understood from the transcripts and from my personal session with him also.
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #5 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 5:29am
 
Justin,

I appreciated your quotes too.  I would be careful with Cayce as well, however.  I have read his medical advice, treatment of lupus and other diseases which I know quite a bit about, being a physician.  He was way off on many things, in his advice.  Even that being the case, he was talking of what he knew, what his mind was familiar with.  He may have had real communication with the astral, but he had to put it into context with his world of that day.

I would have been more interested in those predictions if Cayce could have mentioned things that we see around as now - certain antibiotic, or biological antibody therapies that didn't exist at his time....

I don't think Cayce's misses invalidate his description of the higher planes, just thought I'd mention that no source is absolute.

I think you and I are in agreement that Marta was out of line, whether Alysia misquoted Elias or not.  Certainly, Elias shouldn't care.

Best regards,

Matthew
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #6 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 6:36am
 
Hello Marta,

I also think this could have been handled via pm rather than publicly.  If, a mis-understanding took place, and I don't know that one has, knowing Alysia... there's no doubt in my mind that this was an innocent mis-understanding.  Certainly not an intentional attempt to mis-lead as your post implies. 

When I read Alysia's post, it was my understanding that she'd deleted this from her email.

I find it curious that you feel the need to defend Elias material.  Following is an Elias quote from what Dora posted on the Shift in Consciousness thread.

Quote:
The base element of this shift in consciousness is to be identifying, recognizing, and addressing to the belief systems that you hold and to be accepting of these belief systems -- not eliminating, not altering, not changing, but to be accepting of these belief systems, which therefore renders these belief systems neutralized, which shall be creating of this new establishment in consciousness; for if you are not affected by those belief systems that you hold, you allow yourselves the opportunity to open to your awareness and you allow yourselves to view more of your reality.

As to this wave and its affectingness and your participation within it, you may also be choosing to be participating within this wave but not within conflict, and in this you may be creating of tremendous excitement or elation, heightened senses, a time period of heightened awareness, but you also shall be addressing to belief systems, for this is the action of this particular wave. This be the reason that more individuals are presently experiencing confusion and conflict, for they are addressing to their belief systems.   


If you are feeling a conflict in your need to defend Elias, then perhaps it is your own belief system you are addressing.  Perhaps you are viewing Elias as more important than what each of us really is... Essence!

Love and Light,
Kathy





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Marta
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #7 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 7:52am
 
Hi Kathy,

I don't see why I have to ask via pm a simple question as the number and date of a session from which an exceprt was posted.
My question was in all honesty with NO other intention that to be able to read and recall the session.

Alysia answer was what pront me me to post what I did, she said this session has been deleted, she didn't said, I deleted, besides, any email can be recovered from the deleted box.

I don't have or need to defend Elias or NO onelse, not even myself. I'm just answering according to what it was answered to me.

Again, my post was not about defending Elias at all, he needs no defense, and not even about Alysia or anyone interpretations of the Elias information.

I don't know if Alysia made a mistake or not, if she did, she just can say it.

LOVE
Marta




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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #8 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 7:56am
 
Marta, I don't know you from any other stranger and I must say did come accross as a bit hostile/defensive. Not to add to the peer pressure, but to ask you to reconsider.

Bob
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Justin2710
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #9 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 10:31am
 
Quote:
Justin,

I appreciated your quotes too.  I would be careful with Cayce as well, however.  I have read his medical advice, treatment of lupus and other diseases which I know quite a bit about, being a physician.  He was way off on many things, in his advice.  Even that being the case, he was talking of what he knew, what his mind was familiar with.  He may have had real communication with the astral, but he had to put it into context with his world of that day.

I would have been more interested in those predictions if Cayce could have mentioned things that we see around as now - certain antibiotic, or biological antibody therapies that didn't exist at his time....

I don't think Cayce's misses invalidate his description of the higher planes, just thought I'd mention that no source is absolute.

I think you and I are in agreement that Marta was out of line, whether Alysia misquoted Elias or not.  Certainly, Elias shouldn't care.

Best regards,

Matthew


Hi Mathew et all,

 Yes, i agree, even Cayce who had very little of his consciousn ego interfere with his info (because of such a deep state, and no conscious remembrance), cannot be taken 100 percent, there is always skewing of some degree with a channel who is not of White Light Consciousness (only expresses PUL).

 Yet having studied Cayce for many years in many different subjects, i do believe he has a pretty good track record overall.

 I'm not a physician by any means, yet i have seemed to have an innate grasp and interest in health concepts my whole life.

 There is an interesting example in the E.C. Readings about a serum for cancer that this Source gave...  It was highly unorthodox for its time, as it was taken from fresh rabbits blood, and the idea was that the rabbits antibodies would help the body to fight off cancer of various types---this was given sometime in the 1930's i believe.

 Interestingly, i believe in the late 60's or early 70's (i read about this a long time ago) there were some promising studies along a very, very similar line.  

 Cayce was also helping a group of independant researchers, some of whom were engineers, to develop a perpetual motion machine through the full understanding of positive (active force) and its negative balance (passive expression of energy)..

 Unfortuneately, being independant, they didn't quite have the dough, and there were some personal issues of "intention" involved which hindered and eventually stopped the whole project (yet it was worked on quite awhile).  I'm sure any science lab could do this now, if they looked into it...  But the question is, with such a strangle hold on resources by various corporatations who are motivated primarily by profit...would this even come out?  On a side note, both Thomas Edison and Nikola Telsa received Readings from Edgar.  As well as many in the leader, or pioneer positions--this can be proven.  Cayce's Source also worked with others to develop other scientific achievments--like the individual who patented high powered fog lights--he got much advice from Cayce on this.  Cayce's own son, Edgar Evens, went onto to be instruemental in developing radar systems for the U.S. military (though technically the readings didn't help here--still interesting).

  This (the question of corruption and greed) brings me to the medical system...  While i believe that there are many sincere and service oriented people that are part of the traditional medical system...  There does seem to be a pervasive control due not only to "high standards" but rather greed--especially on part of the pharmacuetical companies, whose bottom line is always profit lol as they have a "legal responsibility" to their shareholders (yeah, who thought up that one Roll Eyes)......

 I've researched the history of Chiropractic treatment...and whoo boy did those medical boys and big drug companies make it very, very hard on the early Chiropractors...  They were labeled everything from quacks, to charlatans, to some very not nice names...  Physicians as a whole, seem to have a lot, and i mean a lot more to learn about what really heals a body...   Many seem to be in the business of treating symptoms rather than the entire being which is composed of mind, body, and spirit.

 Cayce approached each person as an individual case, from this holistic perspective, and he oft said that true healing cannot come without a balance of this trinity.  Therefore though sometimes his info for a particular disease can be used in a universal sense, it must be remembered that each is an indivdiual and unique case, even if they have the same "label" for a disease....

 Now i have deep personal experience with both the medical system way of "healing" and with Cayce's system...

 Around 16 i developed a "mysterious", very painful, uncomfortable, and "embarrassing" condition which the good doctors labeled a "Heat Allergy".

 I went to one of the better hospitals in the country, Boston Childrens, and the good doctor treating me just seemed to scratch his head a lot, and basically said.."um...we don't know what causes this and its very rare...but here you go, take some meds these will help."

 These meds were basically powerful anti-histamines, which supposedly also had a mood elevating effect as well.  Yeah, well they certainly lessed the appearance of these ultra painful and complete bodily hives, but they didn't affect the pain one bit.

  It was treating a symptom which they had very little understanding of...   Now, being a depressed teenager, i had just gotten off prozac which interestingly when i was taken this, is around the time i started to develope this "heat allergy", and my then minor psoriasis was also worse and spreading...

 Not too long after being holed up in my room all winter, and being completely stagnant and feeling like i was going to go crazy, or kill myself...  I "magically" came upon a great Cayce book on health...and i devoured this large book in hours...and it made so much sense from a practical common reasoning point....

 Now i was 16 at the time, yet i was a very, very deep and bright lad--a near genius as i was told by many.   Both very intelligent and very intutive which any so called "genius" type is...this is what makes a person this way, a very good, innate, and uncommon balance between the left and right brain functions (also i am very feminine and masculine-balanced).

Well through a little hard work, self discipline, extreme diet changes, meditation, forgiving others and myself, and a regimented exercise program....  I healed not only my mysterious heat allergy, but also my depression...all due to the simple and make-sense advice on holistic health that Cayce gave...  None of the good doctors came even close..

 So yes, i have a bit of attachment to Cayce's info, and i understand it very well, but i am always synthesizing other reliable info in with my Cayce base...  I do not take it a 100%, but feel it comes close to be sure, and oft when people think a lot of it is "bunk" they just haven't looked deeply or holistically enough into it...   I've seen this many times with the various prophetic info that Cayce gave out.

 Yet many things his Source gave about the future, were 100 percent accurate, and some are still in the developing and we shall see soon enough how accurate he was.

 Medically, for another example take psoriasis which i have....  Medical doctors say this is primiarly genetic, and there is no cure for it (seems to be there battle cry for a lot).  Yet, why does a well known Chiropractic Doctor (Pagano), who has studied the Cayce Readings and who wrote a book called, "Healing Psoriasis", have almost a 100 percent rate of healing others with this dis-ease, when they follow his advice to a Tee which is completely based on diet, eliminations, attitude, and spinal adjustments?

Hmmm.... another very interesting thing...  I also successfully can heal my psoriasis through diet, relaxation, and herbal teas....  Yet, i haven't healed it completely just through lack of self discipline and the necessary will power....and quite frankly, i need some colonics and these are expensive! Shocked Wink Grin 8)  
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Justin2710
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #10 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 10:48am
 
 If anyone is interested in learing more about holistic health, or has psoriasis, this title i mentioned in my previous post is Healing Psoriasis  The Natural Alternative by Dr. John O.A. Pagano Chiropractic physician with foreword by Harry K. Panjwani, M.D., Ph.D.

 Interestingly, there are quite a few both M.D.'s and D.C.'s who do follow Cayce's advice and have studied his readings in depth.  Many seem to be concentrated down near Virginia Beach area where the some 14,300 or so readings are archived at the A.R.E. Headquarters...

Lol now this thread is getting somewhere constructive! Wink  Lets keep up the positive energy and friendly debate folks.  Course it is a bit off topic but Tongue...Lol that seems to be the norm nowadays at Bruce's site.

 I've noticed that it seems like a lot of people, myself included, are doing a lot of defending of their precious belief systems which are so tied in with their ego...  Lets give the proper concepts of what we do believe, state as much, but let go of the attachment, and don't single people out personally...   Lets keep it about principles, ideas, and beliefs, but not about individuals...  There is a need for discourse and communication, and even the occasional disagreements.... but...well y'all know what i mean.

Much Love to you all

P.S. that first Cayce based book on healing i read, which i still consider excellent is Edgar Cayce  Encyclopedia of Healing by Reba Ann Karp with foreword by William A. McGaryey M.D. and afterword by Randall A. Langston M.D.
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #11 - Oct 24th, 2005 at 9:32am
 
Sometimes I wonder if there are some earth bound spirits who used to be a fake Guru, teacher, preacher etc.; and in order to get more of the attention they sought as a Guru, they channell themselves through an unsuspecting person.  

Such a spirit wouldn't necessarily be an incarnation of evil, just a spirit that likes to have an adoring audience.

I don't mean to imply that all Gurus or all channelled entities are fake. However, it doesn't make sense to trust all of them.

By the way, I like how Rosalind Mcknight's book speaks of Jesus.  It speaks of him in a very loving way. It doesn't support Seth's non-crucifixion idea. That whole thing about drugging a guy who took his place, just doesn't sit right with me. I can't say I know, but it sure doesn't feel right.

Sometimes a spirit used Rosalind's body to speak to Robert Monroe. The manner in which channelling was done in her case, feels okay to me. She didn't become unconscious. She watched her body as it was used for a short while.
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Justin2710
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #12 - Oct 24th, 2005 at 10:25am
 
Quote:
Sometimes I wonder if there are some earth bound spirits who used to be a fake Guru, teacher, preacher etc.; and in order to get more of the attention they sought as a Guru, they channell themselves through an unsuspecting person.  

Such a spirit wouldn't necessarily be an incarnation of evil, just a spirit that likes to have an adoring audience.

I don't mean to imply that all Gurus or all channelled entities are fake. However, it doesn't make sense to trust all of them.

By the way, I like how Rosalind Mcknight's book speaks of Jesus.  It speaks of him in a very loving way. It doesn't support Seth's non-crucifixion idea. That whole thing about drugging a guy who took his place, just doesn't sit right with me. I can't say I know, but it sure doesn't feel right.

Sometimes a spirit used Rosalind's body to speak to Robert Monroe. The manner in which channelling was done in her case, feels okay to me. She didn't become unconscious. She watched her body as it was used for a short while.


 I very much agree Recoverer.  About Rosie's books, i've been getting more sensitive to energy lately, and more led by guidance, to the point i can just pick up a book and get "vibes" from it.  

 Both Rosie's books were really high on the good vibe o'meter.   And when i read them, i really resonated with about 99% near 100%....

 This is because of the developement and quality of the channel--Rosie.  Very Loving, very balanced, and has learned or "remembered" a lot in her long life.

 Much the same with Bruce and his info....  And for me, Cayce, though Cayce is harder to decipher...and in a way its more fun because it really stretches both sides of my being (left brain-masculine and right brain-feminine)... Lol, i guess i like the hard work with Cayce's info..

 Same with astrology, it is has really honed my intution in a very automatic knowing way...  since i've very much believed in spirit and spiritual things since young, i've never have had to have such blatant experiences to confirm this knowingness, and thats why my psychic ability operates much more as a knowingness and is very automatic (this is more conected to Higher, more Total Self connection), yet i still have the occasional phenomena experiences when needed to jog something.

I'm also a bit attracted to ACIM, but not for its theory, for how it makes you concentrate on the Heart, and it is an excellent guide book to living in an everyday practical manner for expressing PUL consistently--which in the end i believe is far more important than what any book or channeled source may tell you.
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #13 - Oct 24th, 2005 at 10:26am
 
Marta, yes, anything can be retrieved from the deleted file. BUT, if that file has been emptied, then there is no way to get it back. At least not on my computer.  I get so many emails that I empty my deleted folder daily and sometimes more than once.

Namaste`
Mairlyn Wink
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #14 - Oct 24th, 2005 at 10:35am
 
Hi Albert. I don't know about fake gurus, lol, we seem to have a few around on this board as far as that goes, but I just take what fits in my own beliefs and try to expand my beliefs according to feelings I get.
nowdays, these feelings are not just feelings in the usual sense that we speak of them. they are now feelings in my head and physical body showing up as a very strong resonation of PUL which allows me either go with what I'm reading, or if I don't resonate, I may come back later to it, to see if I have more understanding, or I may just say, oh, this is not for me to read but it may be good for another.
then others will sense material is for them in other ways as we are so individual and thank goodness we are all individuals otherwise we would be clones.

I've come to believe it's best not to follow any teacher or quote long paragraphs of any being whatsoever. so I won't do that anymore. I'll just speak from my heart and only about my experience, as all the answers are inside of us and we can tap our own direct link to all knowledge and experience any experience we wish to if we set an intention to do so.
the original intention of this thread was simply to share my excitement and to say the shift in consciousness is occuring right here, among those on this forum as well as everywhere in the world and that the weather, and the changes in the earth as well is a part of it, and also that as each day unfolds, its a new day and we need not be creating panic around the changes we see happening, but that we can be creators of our reality, instead of reacting to a reality which seems to be happening on the outside of us. each one who holds peace as a vision contributes to the power of that vision to manifest. thats all I wanted to say. I didn't want to stir up a hornets nest. lol.

I'm still grateful to Bruce Moen for giving us a place to get together and I always will be. I'm not the same person I was when I first came here. I'm happier for one thing.    ...
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #15 - Oct 24th, 2005 at 11:35am
 
I was just wondering Alysia.  Smiley
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #16 - Oct 24th, 2005 at 1:08pm
 
 Hi all,

 We are all Gurus to some extent, both in the positive meaning of the word as in a conscious Teacher, and in the more negative sense of preaching to others...

 You don't need to preach heavy, to preach.

 Anyone of us on here is being a Guru because we are telling others what we believe, feel and think is true, or right, etc., etc.  And since we all have egos (or at least i'm assuming) occasionally we project the negative Gura aspect, if not outloud, then in our thoughts eh?

 Some are just more honest with themselves than others, and almost completly and fully accept themselves.

 The only true Gurus, are the ones who communicate very little in the way of words, but more with their actions, thoughts, feelings, in an everyday kind of way.  Ones of a shining example...

 These are few and far between it seems.

 Now, say you pretty much live by yourself or just have a lot of your own personal "space", and you don't have to deal with someone and their quirks and occasional negative energy, and hang ups almost 24/7...  And the only time you come into contact with others in on a very impersonal medium like the I-net (especially where so many agree with you usually, and fluff your ego, etc), or occasionally go out around others and can pretty much control the situation...

 Isn't so much easier to be a "spiritual" person, to keep your center then?  Relationships, particulary in-physical "daily grind" ones can be quite challenging....

 I think this is the only reason why i'm with my Fiance/Twin Soul, other wise i would go it alone and be celibate since i'm rather impersonal for the most part.  She helps me to grow, and i help her and as long as we are growing--oft through friction and challenge--then its a very useful expereince...

 Course my human emotional self, loves her much from an ego level too i.e. attachment, and need for affection... and its All Good, as long as i don't get too hung up on this aspect...  Otherwise our H.S.'s may plot together and say, hey you guys need to be on your own for awhile...  One might even die.. and again learning through suffering.....
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #17 - Oct 24th, 2005 at 4:38pm
 
Quote:
I was just wondering Alysia.  Smiley


I know, I was just getting something off my chest...nothing personal. I like you. alysia
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #18 - Jan 2nd, 2006 at 2:33pm
 
When the master comes(Marta), the lapdog always follows(Dora) Grin
For those who know me here, i have been involved in the Elias stuff for the past 2 years, thanks to Marta. But i realized recently that i could not trust Elias and Mary Ennis for different reasons. I had myself a session with Elias. In short, i don't believe in the existence of Elias at all. I think it is all fake.
Then Gerald (the one who posts in this forum) and me, we decided to not be involved anymore and we told Marta and Dora about our doubts...Then you can ask Gerald, we have been attacked from all sides by them (including insults) like a sect would defend a guru. I had great admiration for them before but i do not believe anymore that they have any knowledge(except reading Mary Ennis and repeating). They both think they are advanced but they are nothing. They just REPEAT like stupid parrots what "Marylias" say. They are both hateful and full of venom. How many times did they insult all of you participating in this forum, thinking that they are better than you!! I wonder what are their motivation...Anyway i just wanted to let you know about this, although i know that everyone knows how they are already.
  This is my final post here. Good luck everyone and all the best for you in 2006.
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Dora
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #19 - Jan 2nd, 2006 at 3:25pm
 
Well Pabloescabar aka Axel dear

It's your style no doubt about it, some may remember one of your alias, wich you are admited,  you are the one with a habit spreading venom about the "stupid" Alysia (who you also contacted many time)  and liars like Marylin, Gordon Phinn, Rosalind just name the few, and the rest, so your attitude now it isn't really a surprise.

For months and month both of you -  you for years bombarded  Marta with endless questions over and over and over again both privatelly and on the board , as you did with several from here also. You the one who need to follow others, nobody asked you to come to Marta, your friend still using the same informations word by word what both of you learned from her, and of course  from the fraud.
Marta didn't needed  either of your wisdom, it was very one sided conversation from day one.

When you come to our board  you didn't even know that Seth is a person or served on the plate.

You learned from Marta mostly, of course it was her choice, even though after several of your post in this board as alias should of been a red flag for her.That already showed who you really are. Just matter of time who you turn your immature hiss toward the next person who might already wasting time on you.



Far as the so called "attack" and just few of your and your friend posts, what can be read if anyone care

http://p206.ezboard.com/fthewaytoselfknowledge93906frm2.showMessage?topicID=190....

http://p206.ezboard.com/fthewaytoselfknowledge93906frm2.showMessage?topicID=176....

http://p206.ezboard.com/fthewaytoselfknowledge93906frm8.showMessage?topicID=47.t...

http://p206.ezboard.com/bthewaytoselfknowledge93906

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gerald
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #20 - Jan 3rd, 2006 at 6:47am
 
I honestly don't understand your reactions Dora and Marta.

I was grateful and I still am for what I have learned from both of you. Honestly!

But being grateful does not  mean that I have to adopt YOUR BELIEFS.  I DO NOT beleive that Elias is legitimate. I have told you so on your site and explained my reasons.

Since the information from Elias is basically the same as Seth, of course it will be part of my posts.

You have every right to believe otherwise. Don't you give me the same right?

You both, of all person, know that the most important is to TRUST ONESELF. You react violently to anyone who does not accept your beliefs. This is a cult-like reaction.

Since you completely trust Elias, you should keep in mind his concept of ACCEPTANCE.

Your reactions are tinted with hatred and anger. I do not understand such reactions.

The concept that *you create your reality* implies that what you both are going through is YOUR CREATION.  IT IS NO ONE'S ELSES.

I follow MYSELF and I TRUST myself Dora. I can apreciate all sort of information along the way. I can discuss with the people I come in contact with and be grateful for them sharing their beliefs.

But this never implies that I have to follow blindly if I disagree.

Why can't you accept the we DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT WHAT YOU DO?

You should ask yourself why YOU have created this reality for yourself instead of attacking others. Take responsability for YOUR WORLD Dora.



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Axel
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #21 - Jan 3rd, 2006 at 8:10am
 
Grin Dora and Marta think that they know everything and everyone else nothing. How many time did they repeat what Marylias said in making mistakes? Then,as they misunderstood the info, they had to REREAD the session with the correct information  lol
I am not grateful to Marta and even less to Dora. Grateful for what? For their attacks and insults? For their hatred? There is nothing to learn from them. But at least everyone realizes that they dont believe in any of the concepts they used to mention like "acceptance" or " You create ALL OF YOUR REALITY"... Grin  Dora and Marta, you created Gerald and me!  Dora, hurry up and pick up a quote from Marylias and paste it here  Grin Grin Grin  You defenitely have no personality whatsoever
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DocM
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #22 - Jan 3rd, 2006 at 8:26am
 
Axel,

I understand your emotion, but it won't solve anything or help.  I too have been on the receiving end of their anger and venom on this board.  It speaks for itself.  Their posts speak for themselves.  Let them stand for all to see (unless they happen to delete them out of shame).

To call another ignorant during a healthy debate, and quote Mary/Elias as the source to prove it (to one who does not define their life or use Mary's definitions) is mean spirited and beside the point.  But it happened.  Let all read it.  Indeed, let all read the past posts and judge for themselves.

I may have been playful and a bit sarcastic, but I kept it at that only while still trying to address the issues in an objective way.

Peace to you, Axel, Gerald.  Let their quotes stand for what they are.  Their tone rings out like a clarion bell, for all to hear.

Matthew


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Raz
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #23 - Jan 3rd, 2006 at 7:03pm
 
so what.


Axel is emotional. In fact elias told axel alot of things about himself.

But basically, what happened is that Axel convinced himself he could do the same thing as mary does . He said he could become 'eliasified', and thats the word he used.  And he'd have his girlfriend ask him questions and supposedly become 'eliasified' and answer them.  
So, according to his logic, if he could do that, then mary is a fraud, somehow.
But how, and why?  that was his problem.  he believed that it was a fruad, so using that belief began looking for the how elias is a fraud, and the why.

Now, this is where his reasoning breaks down, which is why i think he's got nothing on elias. Because, he found this event in the transcripts (session 294, i think...)where elias was asked by a person named nancy, for him to repeat her essence name because at that last session where she asked the first time, was a group session, and elias had given out many essence names to people at one time and she wasnt sure which name belonged to her.  Elias would not repeat the essence name to her. And he gave her a reason in which she understood.
Axel didnt understand why elias would not repeat her essence name to her, and built this into how that makes elias a fraud.

Now the why, is because of the same old same old. Axel thinks mary's motive is to get rich.

Now,ill share you an email i got a hold of that Axel sent Mary herself:

"Hi Mary!
>
> I had a session with YOU in July and i have read a lot afterwards about you and Elias. A lot of doubts have appeared in my mind and other's minds and
> i think that ELIAS does not exist and that you fake everything.
> What a great business you do! You must be really rich now. You read for years the Seth material and learned it by heart, and then changed some of it to try to "sound" different...But actually you just parrot what Seth said.
It is easy to see that Elias doesnt exist because you never answer questions like "what is my intent in this focus" or things like this because you dont know! At times you cant answer if someone asks you the essence name again
> LOL
It is only because you didnt reread the informations properly before the session!
A lot of money is involved in this "Elias business". Why would you charge so much money and have 5 or 6 sessions per day if Elias really existed?
Because Money! You love money!
I am going to write to all the people knowing Elias and try to show them that Elias is actually YOU and only you. I really hope that people will stop calling you and giving you their money . Shame on you."



So you see. Imo Axels reasons are quite lame. in fact he makes little attempt to actually challenge or understand the information itself.

Just recent to these events axel was saying all the time how much he loved elias, and then pretty suddenly thought he was a fraud.
This i may think have something to do with his french connection/ Gerald.  Gerald is another one who makes the same assertion and he was a memebr of the self knowledge baord too.  he is one that thinks elias is a fraud but uses elias terms and concepts all the time. I donrt want to get into gerald, right now.

I insulted them both, so , in that respect they have that problem with me.  marta and dora never once as far as i can recall ever did anything but answer their questions using their understanding of the elias concepts.

What i said to them ... I called gerald a Sucker, And i told Axel to run along a suckle his thumb.
Beacuse
They have nothing on elias or mary.  And their claims are about as weak as they get.  
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PhoenixRa
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #24 - Jan 3rd, 2006 at 7:22pm
 
   Whatever the deeper issues involved, my very subjective feeling is that neither Dora or Marta are motivated by the money thing themselves.

  Curiously though, how much does an Elias session cost?

  Personally i believe this kind of stuff, should be given out with very little material compensation, just enough to pay for the necessities in life.

   I've seen what Sylvia Brown charges and i almost had a heart attack!   Its not enough that she writes a kabillion books, and is pretty much a celebrity now, but charging that much?

  I'm pretty judgmental in this area and department, and believe that people who are truly spiritual teachers, do not care about the compensation that much, except to pay the bills...

  And if they are living large, and paying very large and numerous bills, this automatically makes them suspect.   

  Its like Dr. J healing someone and saying, "now that will be 3 Roman gold coins, thank you, come again"...

  The most "evolved" of humans, give without the thought of return or compensation, though they are well aware of the spiritual compensation involved.... Thats much more important to them, though even then they don't give with this in mind...its not calculating in any sense, but sponataneous like real laughter and joy.

  Eventually like Dr. J, if you give out enough and so totally, you become independant of every material concern anyways, don't need to eat, don't get cold, too hot, don't need to sleep, and don't care about any things whatsoever....so why would you need money at all, except to give it away?

Lol maybe my ideals are too high?  But i happen to believe "ideals" are one the most real things in the physical Earth.....
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PhoenixRa
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #25 - Jan 3rd, 2006 at 7:29pm
 
  I think that if you want to give readings, and you don't have many clients, then you perhaps should charge more out of practical necessity.

  But, if you become very popular, and book many sessions per week, then why not lower your fees correspondingly?

Otherwise, it just smacks of sheer material greed.

  One thing i really respect about Linn from here, is that she doesn't charge a lot, and i can't ever seeing her charge an arm and a leg...for what, to be helpful to others, thats a reward and compensation in and of itself.
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Spitfire
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #26 - Jan 3rd, 2006 at 7:30pm
 
Whats elias?....

and i thought people who have obe's become PUL zombies?...

i guess not...

UNLEASH THE WRATH!!!.

that is all.

later
-spitfire-
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jkeyes
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #27 - Jan 3rd, 2006 at 7:56pm
 
Dear Sweetfire,

Just try to reach your gran. That's what this board is really all about.  You have a lot of help to do that!
That's all Bruce was trying to do when he developed this board for us.

Love, Jean Kiss
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Spitfire
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #28 - Jan 3rd, 2006 at 8:00pm
 
Quote:
Dear Sweetfire,

Just try to reach your gran. That's what this board is really all about.  You have a lot of help to do that!
That's all Bruce was trying to do when he developed this board for us.

Love, Jean Kiss


Give me her number, and i'll call her straight away my friend Smiley
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Raz
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #29 - Jan 3rd, 2006 at 11:01pm
 
Quote:
Curiously though, how much does an Elias session cost?

  Personally i believe this kind of stuff, should be given out with very little material compensation, just enough to pay for the necessities in life.


pheonix
its 270 an hour.... regular oracle rates....

Though, from what i see about mary shes not material at all.  She lives in a modest house that needs repair and wears shi++y clothes just like me...lol.  you can see pictures of mary's enviroment if you look on those two elias sites

it seems alot for a session but i think thats just to weed out the a holes that would be calling her 20 times a week  if it was ten or twenty bucks an hour. or especially if it was free.

in contrast to that syvlia psychic who tells everyone they have a disease and lives quite lavishly with her longer than normal finger nails and all...the contrast is striking. so, its not about the money in this elias thing and i cant even say for sure how much she(mary) makes....no where near sylvia browne , no way
Though,. I think mary will eventually be 10 times more famous and ten times less wealthy. Smiley
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PhoenixRa
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #30 - Jan 4th, 2006 at 12:44am
 
  Thats a pretty good chunk of change there.  If she is doing just 10 sessions on average a week (1 session most days and 2 a couple others), thats what before taxes, 2700$   And in a month thats what,  10,100 Spiritual enlightenment and guidance sure comes at a pricey price....

 The important question for me, does she refuse people if they don't have the money?  If one of my good friends was desperately ill and needed some non medical health advice, but none of us could afford such a accurate "reading", then what would she do?  Cayce charged a fixed rate, but never refused someone who didn't have the money (even if they were lying about it).

 Her house and dress might be modest, but whose to say if she has various vacation homes, and all that other stuff.  Maybe she's primarily waiting to cash out after she gives it up?  If i was in her position, making that much money, i would be very smart to play things down, especially after there has been so much bad press about various Guru's or those channelers like Nancy Leider (Planet X lady), their excesses, falseness and abuses.

 Where does all that money go though?   Now, if she is trying to build a humanity changing device like Bruce here, and just simply needs the resources, i could understand that, or planning to create a truly charitable organization (not a Tax free money maker), the same??

  I really have a hard time not being judgemental in these kinds of questions, don't know why but just have very strong feelings about stuff like this (well i know why, but don't want to go into that).

 My question is, why doesn't someone with the abilities that Bruce has, start doing psychic readings at 200 or 300 dollars a popp, and stop struggling, trying to teach people the skills so they can do the same thing, at a much lower rate, and much less frequently (cause the amount of traveling involved), and i doubt he gets much money from his book sales?

  Could it be because Bruce is the real deal?   Or what about Rosiland, who just finally got some land and property of her own, at how old, soon to be 72?

 I don't respect these people cause they aren't well off, i respect them cause they don't seem overly attached to the illusionary things of the Earth.

 We talk here a lot about how to change your reality, change your focus...for the common example, if you fear someone, choose to focus on love, and the fear will vanish...

 Similar thing, if you're focussed on having things, money, etc. it takes up some of your focus and concentration from the spiritual aspects of life...  Course there are materially weathly spiritually intune people, but with them it often seem that it just comes their way, and they don't seek or work for it, and they give it out constantly, and so in giving out and being non attached, they always attract ever more.  

 E.C. said that the Disciple known as John the Beloved was pretty wealthy, and his total worth and estates, etc. would be in the early 1920's (when the reading was given) valued at something like 3 million.  Which today would be quite a bit of money.
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Raz
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #31 - Jan 4th, 2006 at 10:37am
 
Quote:
I really have a hard time not being judgemental in these kinds of questions, don't know why but just have very strong feelings about stuff like this (well i know why, but don't want to go into that).


well, why will i keep answering your questions if you hold strong feelings about this, that you wont go into?
....you have an issue with it that you wont go into?

I dont care what she does with her money, or is it my business, really.  All i know is shes not driving around in a limo in a gated community or seem to be living like a person who makes as much as you think. or is really concerned with material things.

Nor do i think she read seth and develpoed such an understanding of seth that she was able to expand on what seth said and become a fraudulent channeler this way.
you can read some her sessions when its her speaking to a group and see that she herself is trying to understand and impliment elias concepts as is anyone else who reads elias.

people i think would benifit from actually doing some work and doing at least some detective work for themselves before a stereotypical generalization is applied to mary.
but again, its not my problem really, its yours pheonix, and axel, and gerald. and all anyone has is the money issue.

so let me know when you have something substantial, all these accusations about the money thing is really boring and quite besides the point.

she makes less than the president and the pope so maybe that will help you sleep better at night.
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Axel
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #32 - Jan 4th, 2006 at 12:38pm
 
Quote:
well, why will i keep answering your questions if you hold strong feelings about this, that you wont go into?
....you have an issue with it that you wont go into?

I dont care what she does with her money, or is it my business, really.  All i know is shes not driving around in a limo in a gated community or seem to be living like a person who makes as much as you think. or is really concerned with material things.

Nor do i think she read seth and develpoed such an understanding of seth that she was able to expand on what seth said and become a fraudulent channeler this way.
you can read some her sessions when its her speaking to a group and see that she herself is trying to understand and impliment elias concepts as is anyone else who reads elias.

people i think would benifit from actually doing some work and doing at least some detective work for themselves before a stereotypical generalization is applied to mary.
but again, its not my problem really, its yours pheonix, and axel, and gerald. and all anyone has is the money issue.

so let me know when you have something substantial, all these accusations about the money thing is really boring and quite besides the point.

she makes less than the president and the pope so maybe that will help you sleep better at night.



Well Raz, whoever you are, you are not really objective as you are yourself an Marylias fan, or even friend  of hers...
Marylias has at least 4 sessions per day. And she does it every day. I had a session a sunday and her friend Lynda who works with her told me that she has sessions each morning...
Now, when i had my session, i spoke to Marylias in french at the end of the session (Elias claims he can speak french as his last focus was french according to him) and her (marylias) answer was "hmmm"...Elias, the french speaking essence, didnt get a word of what i said...That is so amazing for someone claiming that he can speak french  Grin
  After, how many times did Marylias avoid questions? How many times did the participant ask " i know that you can read my mind, then was it you there the other day that i saw?" or " what is my intent in this focus Elias?"...Elias NEVER answers those questions because HE DOESNT KNOW!  You can find such examples in almost every session. And of course, Elias always asks "what is your impression?" because he doesn't know the answers.( i dont believe when Elias says that it is for the transcript readers)
Like the one where he said that Grace Kelly killed herself   Grin  It proves that marylias does not know anything about her  Grin To me, M.E just read Seth and changed a bit her version to sound more credible...And you would say to me "then why does she never contradict herself?" Well, people who are (just an example) teachers never contradict themselves when they teach because they learned their lessons very well!!!
  I have dealt with a lot of frauds in my life and i know how to recognize them. This one was more difficult to find but hey, it was not too late!
  And Marta, please go and get a life. You are not better than anyone here. You just think you are.


PS: I was the one called "pablo escobar" on this board who said that some people here were stupid to believe everything. I apologised to several people personnaly but that is the kind of atmosphere i was in with Marta and Dora ( Isn't Raz actually Dora Wink )   

          Happy new year to all of you!
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DocM
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #33 - Jan 4th, 2006 at 1:24pm
 
Axel,

You can look at this situation in several ways.  Firstly, if an essence or an entity is discarnate, do they necessarily have more of an open phone line to a divine truth than you or I?  If they do, on what grounds do we base that on?  Robert Bruce, the astral adept has said he finds discarnate human entities all the time, trying to speak or have an effect on the physical world or offer advice.  Yet they are not necessarily more wise than anyone else.  (In fact he advises avoiding them altogether and not mistaking them for angels).  Tne assumption that we all make with a channeling is that the information must be better somehow than that given by people in the flesh, because they have experienced death, or moved on to a higher realm of consciousness.

This may or may not be the case.  With regard to Mary/Elias, I truly don't know - although I have seen the video of a channeling and read through quite a bit of the material on the web.  But either way you look at it, the teachings are a source of information; one which may be analyzed and digested.  If you disagree with some of the notions and teachings, a M/E follower might say that is because you don't "get it," or don't understand.  Why is that?  Why does any channeled source have to give out perfect and truthful advice every time?  Lord knows we human beings make mistakes.  Discarnate entities might too.  I say take from readings that which suits you.  I know I and Alysia have said the same thing about that.

I don't think anything useful will come of wondering why Mary charges whatever amount per channeling, etc.  The cards will fall where they will anyway.  I think for anyone interested though, look through the posts of those involved here on the board.  They are very revealing to any who would go back and read them.

Matthew
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Raz
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #34 - Jan 4th, 2006 at 3:48pm
 
No Axel, i am robfromdetroit.  You should have eliasified yourself to realize that. 

You know, you cite examples that you base these claims on.

But axel, the way i see it you are failing to understand elias' purpose and his intent.

Now, his intent is to trigger a rememberence. Thats what he says alot, as you should know.
Now that can answer alot of your questions right there as to why he doesnt answer peoples intents or why he askes for a persons impressions.  Is because his purpose is to show individuals that they hold the knowledge about themselves already, though rely on outside sources to give them the answers they inherently hold within themselves.  And i have seen elias give answers to what a persons intent is or ask them for their impressions and let them know if they are correct or not, regardless of what you say, and if you would like i can find experiences in the material to refute all of your claims.
Again, if your using these accustations to claim he's a fruad you obviously havent read eneough elias, let alone with an open mind. or with the base amount of understanding it takes to make a proper judgement call.

but regardless, if you can be eliasfied, and do the same thing mary does, you sure arent showing enough understanding to back up that claim either. in fact, it seems you arent having the abilities you claim.
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Raz
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #35 - Jan 4th, 2006 at 3:56pm
 
Quote:
You can look at this situation in several ways.  Firstly, if an essence or an entity is discarnate, do they necessarily have more of an open phone line to a divine truth than you or I?


great point Doc, this is one of the common misconceptions, that you, or I ,or a channeled essence are infallible, or should be absolutely perfect according to a persons guidelines.
The funny thing is if that if axel doesnt believe in elias, then why this whole crusade to try to make everyone else believe what he does.
who is Axel? is axel infallibly correct? is what axel says an absolute?  heheh, axel, take your advice, get a life.
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Raz
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #36 - Jan 4th, 2006 at 4:07pm
 
Quote:
(Elias claims he can speak french as his last focus was french according to him)


also, that is incorrect, his last focus was oscar wilde according to him. So try harder.

And also, elias says in one of his earlier sessions that the reason he knows french is because its in marys awareness. Though mary is not french in this focus, she holds focuses that are, therefore the knowledge of the french language is within her essential knowledge.
though the point is that its elias' choice to speak english in the sessions, and i will leave it to you to figure out why.
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Rondele
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #37 - Jan 4th, 2006 at 8:59pm
 
If Elias is correct in saying that our only purpose is to "experience" things, and not to learn, then there is no purpose whatsoever in the life review.

The life review is the ultimate learning tool.  It shows us the good, bad and the ugly about our life.  It even allows us to feel the emotions we caused in others by our words and actions. 

Many authors refer to the life review.  Even Seth.  So obviously, Seth and Elias are not on the same page. 

I think Johnny Cash must have believed in Elias.  After all, he "shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die."  I'm sure Elias wouldn't have had any problem with that, heck we're here just to experience, and watching someone die is a pretty awesome experience. 

Well, it's awesome except for the guy who was shot.....

The problem with believing in channelled material is that if you read it carefully, you'll find all sorts of contradictions.  And if the sources are really highly advanced spiritual entities, these kinds of contradictions just shouldn't occur.   Elias says we're already perfect, and Seth clearly says earth is a school.

Sorry folks, you can't have it both ways.
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Raz
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #38 - Jan 4th, 2006 at 10:34pm
 
Quote:
The problem with believing in channelled material is that if you read it carefully, you'll find all sorts of contradictions.


hmm, are any of these contradictions between seth and elias relative to the time and place?

i see what you mean, you cant have a newton when you got an einstein..

Elias said that though seths message was profound, it was delivered into the mass held beliefs of that time.  therefore he used ideas common to that time.
That the earth  is a school and we are here to ascend to higher planes of awareness and the like.

Where, years later then elias says that the purpose of life is it matters not.  Life is a game where you experience the physical experience you intend along the direction of your own value fulfilment. which may or may not include the direcition of learning or being involved in the idea that earth is a school.

But, if it brings you value to learn, that could possibly be the intent that brings you value fulfillment therefore you CAN have it both ways.

Though, elias syays it not a school, but learning is one direction you can choose to experience.


Also, ive seen before this whole right or wrong thing. According to waht i have read, in that area in which elias is focused, there is no judgement.  There is an understanding that an individual will make his own choices in thier own experiences and there is acceptance of that. There is a realizition that the conscious individual creates their reality perfecty according to their intent toward the experience that brings them benefit.
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Rondele
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #39 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 8:47am
 
"Elias said that though seths message was profound, it was delivered into the mass held beliefs of that time.  therefore he used ideas common to that time."

Athough much of the Seth material is related to string theory and quantum mechanics, which certainly are more of a belief system now than when Seth was written, you nevertheless have a good point.

Our society has changed in one major way, in that actions no longer have consequences, or at least not as much as they used to even a relatively short time ago.  Today, no one is guilty of anything.  It's all the fault of someone or something else. 

So, taking your point, I agree that Elias would have more acceptance today than even when Seth was published.  Elias most definitely would have strong appeal to those folks who like the idea that we are here just to "experience" things.  After all, the whole concept of good and bad kind of goes away under that philosophy.  Accountability?  Hey not to worry.  Everything's ok. 

From that point of view, ACIM was ahead of its time.  It was published in roughly the same timeframe as Seth, but it also tells us that guilt is an old fashioned notion.  It simply doesn't exist, because there is no evil.  Evil acts are just an illusion.  So why feel guilt about something that never really happened?  Hitler and Mother Teresa?  No difference.

People have absolutely no idea who or what Elias or Seth is, and yet they are willing to accept everything and anything they say.  What would Elias say about the Golden Rule?  Should we do onto others as we would have them do onto us?  Or should we just do as we wish, because our purpose here on earth is really to experience things?

I guess we all have to make up our own minds.  Let's just hope we know what we're doing.


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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #40 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 9:13am
 
The notion that we are all here to experience, and that there is no right or wrong, no better path to go on, no more decadent or bestial is an invention of an aimless mind. 

True, you can find many who don't give a damn, who don't believe in aspiring to any betterment of themselves.  They'd fit in well with that Elias teaching.  Why shouldn't my child drop out of high school, do and sell drugs, have sex and not give a flying ----?  Let's just drift along and see what comes up.

Trouble is, you reap what you sow.  As people indulge in gratification, and selfish thinking (since we are only here to experience), like associates with like.  They become miserable in other ways as they are satisfying their desires.  Any can see this by observing people in society.  We here about the regrets of a life gone astray from those who have passed on and from mediums.  So in this aspect, Mary/Elias is simply wrong.  Any can see that we become our innermost thoughts and goals.  If we let them drift or indulge in our lowest wishes (hate, greed, etc.) not only do we attract that to ourselves, but we slow our future progress until we recognize our errors.

In a system of "you are only here to experience," Rondele is right.  There is no need to move toward love, betterment of oneself, loving thy neighbor, any of what we intuitively know as our highest ideals.  If you want to debase yourself, do it! Your only here to feel and experience! 

No, no.  Intuitively this philosophy will lead many astray.  Proof of it is found everywhere.  For as we aspire toward love of fellow man, good thoughts, we find more meaning in life and our situations relfects that (thoughts creating reality).  You can only create corn from corn seeds.  Nettles from nettles.  Hateful thoughts, ill feelings, indulgence in lust harming a loved one, all will germinate from our thought into the real world into sorry situations and from there it continues on.  We are not here to learn?  Wrong - pure and simple.

For those of you reading, heed my spiritual cry; "learn now, or ye will learn later."

From the soon to be published book "Matthew Speaks to Seth and Elias, and gives them a good tongue lashing."

Oops, almost forgot.  That will be $280.  Sorry, have to charge more than Mary since the advice is better.

Ha!

M
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #41 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 10:43am
 
M-

There's a lot of wisdom in your post.  It's so easy to get entrapped in new age stuff because it can be so enticing.  It takes us off the hook.  It's kind of like being told that you can eat all the chocolate donuts you want and guess what?  You won't gain an ounce.  Not only that, you will be healthier for doing so.

Who would want to go on a dull dietary program and an exercise regime if we are told we really don't have to in order to lose weight?  Tempting for sure.  Thing is, there really aren't any shortcuts in life.  We can choose to either learn our lessons now or learn them later. 

It's interesting how some of the Elias fans convey so much anger in their posts.  And also quite revealing when you think about it.

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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #42 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 10:43am
 
heh.

ELIAS: “You hold these belief systems and their natural byproducts of intolerance and judgment for you do not accept and trust yourselves; for if you are trusting and accepting of self and eliminating the duplicity, you shall not hold a reason to be expressing through these belief systems, whose natural byproducts are intolerance and judgment. This is extremely difficult for you. I acknowledge this, for within your creation you align with belief systems very strongly. They are automatic. You hold very deep issues that you have created throughout your focus.” [session 160, March 30, 1997]

ELIAS: “Do not misunderstand that I advocate lack of concern or caring for all other individuals, but you may not hold true concern for other individuals until you hold true worth and concern for yourself; for if you do not value self, you may not value anything else. In this, you hold a portion of value for self. That is why you hold duplicity. You hold both ideas of self; that of trustful and that of not trustful. That element of self that you do place some amount of trust within allows you the ability to project outwardly to other individuals a caring and concern and trustfulness; but you shall find that within you, given the opportunity, this shall be dashed quite quickly in the face of the distrustfulness, for this you hold more strongly. All elements of your societies reinforce this.” [session 170, May 02, 1997]

ELIAS: “Duplicity is the curse of your present age. Your globe is plagued with this belief system of duplicity, which is so very unnecessary!” [session 180, June 03, 1997]

ELIAS: “[Duplicity] is the belief system that is the most greatly creating of judgments, and positive and good is also a judgment. It is opposing bad or negative. It is no less a judgment than what you perceive to be unacceptable. It also is a very insidious judgment, and this is the camouflage of duplicity, for it is quite changeable. It is quite acclimating to all of your camouflages, to all of your belief systems, to all of your thoughts and feelings, and may mold itself in many different manners that may be quite deceiving.” [session 328, October 03, 1998]

ELIAS: “Guilt, I shall express to you – as I have expressed many times previously – is one of the two manifestations of energy within this physical dimension that you express that may be the most closely associated with a waste of energy. In actuality, there is no waste of energy. Therefore, I may not express to you definitively that the expression of guilt is absolutely a waste of energy, for no energy expression is wasted, so to speak.

“But I shall express to you, were there any expression of a waste of energy, the expression of guilt and worry would be those. These two expressions of energy serve merely to perpetuate the belief system of duplicity. They reinforce all that you identify as negative.

“They reinforce the expression of a discounting of self, a lack of acceptance of self, and they create an expression of devaluation of worth, which – in a manner of speaking, figuratively speaking – is an expression which is contrary to consciousness and essence.

“I am not expressing that it is not a creation that may serve or that has served as beneficial to you within this physical dimension within different moments of your history, but I shall express to you, within consciousness, were there to be an expression of an unacceptable manifestation of energy, these expressions would be [the ones].” [session 510, December 04, 1999]

ELIAS: “And what I am expressing to you now is that there is no better. This is entirely a design and an illusion which is set forth through the influence of an aspect of the belief system of duplicity.

“You are already best. You are already creating perfectly. Your beliefs are influencing your perception of yourself that you are not creating perfectly, and therefore you create judgments, and this sets in motion a very large wheel which moves quite rapidly, and it continues to turn and turn and turn, for as you create the judgment, you also reinforce the duplicity, which expresses once again to you that you are not adequate enough yet, that you could be creating better, that you will be experiencing no conflict at all IF you are creating better.

“ALL of these expressions are influences of duplicity. ALL of these expressions camouflage the now and camouflage your perception, dictating to it that you are presently not adequate enough, not good enough, and not perfect.

“And therefore, in the influence of that belief, as it dictates to your perception, you create an actual reality in which you view yourself to not be accomplishing perfectly yet, and you reinforce this and reinforce this and reinforce this with judgment and the continual perpetuation of viewing that you need be creating better.

“I shall express to you what shall be better – what shall be better would be for you to be eliminating the word ‘better’ from your language! HA HA HA!”
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #43 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 10:48am
 
ELIAS: “A ‘want’ is a belief system! You only want what you do not have, for you are influenced by belief systems which tell you that what you have is not adequate or that your experience is not adequate. Therefore, you ‘want’ a different experience. This is a direct influence of belief systems. If you are accepting that you are manifest for experience, and if you are trusting in your choices of probabilities and trusting of self, you eliminate want; but as you are not accepting of self and of experience, you translate into the belief system of wanting, for you translate into the belief system of ‘better.’ There is something beyond or better than what you experience presently; although within your drama you experience the illusion, for you do not allow yourself the experience of the now. You experience what you perceive to be already created or not yet created.

BOB#1: Expectation.

ELIAS: Correct. Therefore, you are projecting yourself into illusion and experiencing the drama of the illusion, whereas the reality is within the now.” [session 151, February 02, 1997]

ELIAS: “Your purpose, as we have expressed, is to experience; but you are correct that within each individual focus you also hold individual intents, and as you hold these intents you create desires, and within this you create probabilities to choose from within a pool aligning with your intent.”
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Raz
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #44 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 10:52am
 
ELIAS: “Within non-physical focus, the expression of essence is far beyond your physical imagination.” [session 83, April 03, 1996]

ELIAS: “Each time you express, ‘This individual should not ... I should not ... You should do ...’ Each time you express these statements, you offer yourselves examples of how you align and accept belief systems, mass belief systems. You may express, ‘I hold no religious affiliations. I have no religious belief systems. Murder is wrong.’ You hold a religious belief system! You may express, ‘I do not hold to belief systems of good or bad, of right or wrong.’ You may also express, ‘Individuals should not do this!’ You hold a belief system, aligning with the mass belief system which is accepted, of right and wrong and good and bad. You also express these belief systems within yourselves continuously. ‘I could have accomplished better. I messed up’, in the present vernacular! (Laughter) These are alignments with individual and mass belief systems of good and bad. You do not mess up! You express and experience.”


responsibility:

ELIAS: “Now we move into the area of responsibility. As you are affecting of your own inner landscapes (1), you hold the responsibility to yourselves and to all consciousness to be affecting beneficially. As you move into areas of affectingness with other individuals or other focuses, even of yourself, you hold more responsibility, for you are now affecting of another focus. Therefore, you hold the responsibility of the expression of essence. This is very important! It is important that you realize that you DO hold a responsibility within consciousness. I do not express to you that all of your existence is merely an experience with no responsibility! You experience for the experience; but you also hold tremendous responsibility to be expressing from essence. (Firmly) Expression of essence is not to be concerning yourself with all other individuals and their creation of reality, and creating judgment within you as to other individuals’ creations of their reality. Your responsibility is to be accepting within yourself, and of all other individuals! I may not express this strongly enough. It is very important!

“This, be remembering: each action that you create, you also are affecting within consciousness. Each action that you take, you affect all of consciousness. Therefore, you may quite understand the responsibility that you hold within these actions.” [session 228, October 18, 1997]

ELIAS: “... I am not expressing to you that you hold responsibility for the choices of other individuals, for you do not. You DO hold responsibility for the choices that YOU create, knowing their affectingness in conjunction with other individuals. This is not to be expressing to you that you should be moving into assuming personal responsibility for other individuals, but merely to allow yourself the awareness of what you are creating, and in this, also hold the awareness that certain choices that you may be creating may be affecting of other individuals, and if you are choosing to move into certain areas, the efficient expression of essence is also to hold the awareness of no expectation with respect to other individuals.

“In quite blunt terminology, I express to you, the directions that you choose for yourself are your choices and shall be beneficial to you, but within the expression of essence, the expectation of pulling or dragging with you other individuals that become confused and are not necessarily in agreement with your choices IS your responsibility.”


Intrusiveness:

ELIAS: “Intrusiveness is an action in which you project energy to another individual intentionally, knowing that it is most likely to be received and configured in a hurtful manner. This is an irresponsible act; this is not an expression of essence. This is not a natural expression of essence.

“I am understanding that within this time framework there is tremendous challenge in association with this wave addressing to truths, and many individuals are experiencing considerable difficulty and confusion. But your difficulty and your conflict may be considerably lessened if you are genuinely paying attention to your own energies and to how you are projecting, and being responsible in your projections to other individuals.

“For I may express to you, the reason that intrusiveness is not a natural expression of essence is that within consciousness it is known that any action that you incorporate with other individuals, with other essences, if it is intended to be intrusive or hurtful, what it accomplishes is being much more hurtful to yourself. It may not appear in that manner initially, but I may assure you that you cannot incorporate an action of hurtfulness without being more hurtful to yourself. And in that hurtfulness to yourself, you do deny yourself awareness and you do deny yourself choice, and you weep. (Pause)

“Denial of choice is not a natural expression of essence; intrusiveness is not a natural expression of essence.”


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Re: to Justin/Raz
Reply #45 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 10:58am
 
Justin/Razz, I know u are the same person so please choose one or the other identity so it's less confusing for the rest of us. I find your contributions are valuable, however posting up previously published authors works is discouraged here, we could get in trouble with copyright laws and I am quoting Bruce's guidelines, not my own.
I used to do this too and spirit just told me I had to learn to put communications into my own words. People want to know who "you" are, not who somebody else is.

I hope you do not take offense. I really like you. alysia
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Raz
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #46 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:09am
 
Alysia, i have mentioned before i am not justin and i really dont know who he is.
I am a friend of marta, doras, axels, and geralds from another board.
My name is rob, and im from detroit.  And it is permissible for me to copy and past from the elias website because i am not doing it to make a profit. I am sharing imformation, not stealing it.
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #47 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:10am
 
  Well in my own example, i've found that one of the best ways for me to really value and have true 'worth' for self, was to try to value, tolerate, and respect others more.

  Yeah, its called Like attracts Like and everything in the Uni/Multi Verse is subject to this Law.

  The more you try to love others, the more you will love yourself, and the more you love yourself, the more you will love others basically.

  That, and some health/dietary changes, is the only thing which got me out of a severe, want to kill myself always, for more than 10 years depression.

  Elias is full of crap, and if a real Entity at all, needs to incarnate, prove its expanded awareness and all that like REAL spiritual teachers have done, living as an EXAMPLE for others....because examples as teaching is always so much more powerful than just flowery words.  Ever heard of Martin Luther King Jr., Gandhi, Yogannanda, and many others like that?   Yeah, they put their effort where their all so vaunted "beliefs" were.  I would love to see Elias do and go through what MLK, and other real teachers went through.

  Instead, i hear just a lot of philosophical, rehashed stuff, a blend of philosophy which can be found from various times and climes.  And so very pleasing to the ego....

Raz wrote, Quote:
Also, ive seen before this whole right or wrong thing. According to waht i have read, in that area in which elias is focused, there is no judgement.  There is an understanding that an individual will make his own choices in thier own experiences and there is acceptance of that. There is a realizition that the conscious individual creates their reality perfecty according to their intent toward the experience that brings them benefit.


  All Beings/Consciousnesses/Essences have standard by which they judge themselves--PUL.  When they get "closer" to this standard, by using their freewill to choose for them and from their individual perspective, this type of Beingess and energy, then they will start to move beyond judgment, but even then because of the interaction of the relative, changing reality with this One absolute (and Oneness is Absolute), there is still a standard.   

  Hey, your ego doesn't like this, i understand this well myself, but i doubt you will ever actualize your full creative potential going by Elias's specific guidelines, etc.

  Maybe try mixing up some Buddha, Jesus, Krishna, etc. teachings, cause these were people who not only talked the talk, but walked the walk?  Ah, but thats the problem, the ego doesn't like these teachings, and always goes out of its way to avoid such Universal principles...cause it must keep its temporal self alive.....

Now this is something i've asked Dora, and which she completely side stepped.

  If you can create your reality so perfectly, and throw out the whole understanding of unconsicous, conscious, and superconscious and all that....

  And if everything is Essence and all that, and your beliefs create your reality...

  Then whats to stop you from walking on water, changing water into wine, and other seemingly miraculous stuff like that?  In my book its very possible with the meeting of the right conditions, which i haven't fully met yet.

  Bet you can't create these realities for you no matter how hard you try Wink

  But some can, and why can some, and not others create or actualize their thoughts, intentions, etc. into their physical reality?  I mean after all, isn't so called physical reality just another thought construct, or something similar along those lines?

   Hmmm, mabye cause some live and believe in that standard, that One Absolute, of Oneness......
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Raz
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #48 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:11am
 
Also, if you have read this thread i had told axel iand others i could refute the fraudulent and misguided ideas about elias with the material from the elias site, and that is what i have done.
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PhoenixRa
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Re: to Justin/Raz
Reply #49 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:13am
 
Quote:
Justin/Razz, I know u are the same person so please choose one or the other identity so it's less confusing for the rest of us. I find your contributions are valuable, however posting up previously published authors works is discouraged here, we could get in trouble with copyright laws and I am quoting Bruce's guidelines, not my own.
I used to do this too and spirit just told me I had to learn to put communications into my own words. People want to know who "you" are, not who somebody else is.

I hope you do not take offense. I really like you. alysia


  Alysia, i also told you that i'm not Raz.  Why do you continue to believe this?  Again, go talk to Bruce as he might be able to clear things up for you a bit.

   Consistent meditation is a great thing, a great healer for people, helps one to clear ones energy more and more.

  With Love,
  Justin
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Raz
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #50 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:14am
 
Quote:
Then whats to stop you from walking on water, changing water into wine, and other seemingly miraculous stuff like that?  In my book its very possible with the meeting of the right conditions, which i haven't fully met yet.


Phoenix, good question, elias says repeatedly we hold abilities greater then these small feats of physial manipulation, though the beliefs we hold in these areas are helld very strongly that we dont utilize the abilities because we believe we cant do any thing 'miraculous'.  Its possible, if those beliefs are suspended.


anyway, off to work for me...
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Raz
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #51 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:30am
 
Quote:
Elias is full of crap, and if a real Entity at all, needs to incarnate, prove its expanded awareness and all that like REAL spiritual teachers have done, living as an EXAMPLE for others....because examples as teaching is always so much more powerful than just flowery words.  Ever heard of Martin Luther King Jr., Gandhi, Yogannanda, and many others like that?   Yeah, they put their effort where their all so vaunted "beliefs" were.  I would love to see Elias do and go through what MLK, and other real teachers went through


oh, one more thing, before i go to work, ill leave it to you, Justin, to show examples of when elias is judgemental, unappreciative, unaccepting of anyone in the material.  Elias does practice what he preaches.  So the burden of proof is on you to show ow elias is full of crap in this respect.
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #52 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:31am
 
 Alysia, i would again remind you of Bruce's guidelines,
You agree, through your use of this YaBB forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of ANY law. This is not humorous and legal actions can be taken against you.


 I am trying to follow these guidelines and principles to my fellow posters, and not getting negatively personal with them.

 At one point i wasn't and people complained to Bruce, and he told me if i continued, i would be banned.

 I wasn't banned, and i'm not continuing what i was previously doing temporarily.  
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #53 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:39am
 
Raz,

Reread my last post, and answer me yourself.  Don't paste and clip Mary to me, please.  I did not talk about responsibility.  I talked of purpose other than to just experience.  We can look at specific case histories of real people and see that there is purpose in life other than experience. 

I am truly starting to think that Mary's posts/transcripts are more than a diversion or thought provoking; I think that they may be truly harmful a la Reverend Jim Jones.  Raz if Mary says to drink tainted Kool Aid - don't do it!

Many have had communications with other forms of consciousness.  I see no proof to back up Mary's statements about her philosophy other than the notion that Elias (fake or real) somehow is a more highly evolved consciousness.  Many other communications from discarnate entities don't agree with Elias-speak.  Hmmmm......so why do we lend credence to Mary (those that do?)

Raz, respond to my post.  Why should my son not drop out of school, do and sell drugs, and say what the f--- if we are all here to experience.  Elias-speak on responsibility does not adequately answer this question.  Maybe you can.  Ah, and then maybe, just maybe, Matthew and Raz will have a discussion with each other.  Maybe Mary will be left to her own then!

Matthew
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #54 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:41am
 
Quote:
oh, one more thing, before i go to work, ill leave it to you, Justin, to show examples of when elias is judgemental, unappreciative, unaccepting of anyone in the material.  Elias does practice what he preaches.  So the burden of proof is on you to show ow elias is full of crap in this respect.


  That may be so, but could that just mean that the "channel" doesn't want to scare people away?

  Actually, if there were impersonal criticisms in there, i would be more apt to believe it, cause in looking at the E.C. readings, there are definite examples of criticisms from the source to specific individuals, for teaching purposes and helping a person become more aware of their dark, unconscious self.

  Can't grow when stuff is unconscious, and a Light Being is able to merge its energies with another consciousness fully, so it can see its "rights and wrongs" and whats best for its growth.

  Usually though, the source of Cayce's readings stuck more to principles and concepts.  Cayce himself was quite chastised a few times...basically the more mature a developing Soul, the more it can "handle the truth" about its own unregenerated false self and its illusions which are blocking it.

  This is what guidance does all the time, trying to get us to move past these unconscious, self limiting, and making ourselves suffer tendencies.

Course we need to do the work, though, and make the actual choices...basically they just make us more aware of what our actual choices are...and more importantly, what these choices will attract.
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #55 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:52am
 
Alysia-

Did Spirit also tell you that Justin and Raz are the same person?  Is that how you "know" that?

Seems to me an apology is in order.
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DocM
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #56 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 12:10pm
 
It is clear that Justin is not Raz.  On many threads, he has disagreed with the Elias crowd, and said he doesn't buy into it.  This would not be permitted, so it is crystal clear that Raz is someone else.
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #57 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 12:40pm
 
Hi Ronedale and Matthew,

  I think for some reason she thinks i'm playing both sides?

  What is crystal clear is that i have a completely different writing style and generally a much different "tone", which can be quite serious, or quite flippant and unserious.

  My vocab is more extensive, i'm constantly relating and interweaving many various sources and particularly my favs. Cayce, McKnight, Moen, some Monroe, numerology, astrology, my own guidance, holistic health concepts, etc.

  I can be controversial, but it seems that Raz has built himself quite the fixed image of being controversial, and it sounds like Raz is a very 'thinking' type, and not so much the mystic, feeling type as i am.

  Either way, the truth doesn't need defense, though i appreciate the sentiment on both your parts. 

Peace
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Rondele
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #58 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 1:40pm
 
Justin-

It's just another case of jumping the gun.  The old carpenter adage of measuring twice, cutting once might be a useful lesson for the person in question.

R
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Re: to Justin/Raz
Reply #59 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 5:21pm
 
Quote:
 Alysia, i also told you that i'm not Raz.  Why do you continue to believe this?  Again, go talk to Bruce as he might be able to clear things up for you a bit.

  Consistent meditation is a great thing, a great healer for people, helps one to clear ones energy more and more.

 With Love,
 Justin


Okay... we can clear this up.  I can send Bruce all of the IP numbers you have ever used when posting at Linn's.

Shall I do that?

Kathy
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Tread softly through life with a tender heart and a gentle, understanding spirit.
 
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Rondele
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #60 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 5:35pm
 
Lights of Love-

What a kind and generous offer.  PUL is in full bloom.

R
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PhoenixRa
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #61 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 9:19pm
 
Quote:
Lights of Love-

What a kind and generous offer.  PUL is in full bloom.

R


 Hi Rondele,

 I'm not completely sure, but i think Kathy may just be trying to help.  


 Hi Kathy,

 As i said earlier, in this case the truth needs no defense, and have a hard time believing Bruce really cares about the drama here when people aren't extremely breaking any major guidelines?

 Personally i'm a little tired of the drama, and if Bruce cares then sure go ahead an give him the previous IP's.  For all i care, you could post these here, and Bruce post Raz's and/or Rob from detroit (this is who Raz claims to be).  

 Bruce personally knows (or at least i told this too him a long time ago, back last Decem. or Jan.) that i use to have to use Library computers up until a little while ago when i got my own I-net connection (about 3 months ago, or so).

 Anyways, i appreciate the concern if this is from a positive motivation, and if not, its not my concern i guess.

Peace

 
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #62 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:22pm
 
Ok, now that this misunderstanding in who is who is cleared up, doc, ill adress your concerns first:

Quote:
Raz,

Reread my last post, and answer me yourself.  Don't paste and clip Mary to me, please.  I did not talk about responsibility.  I talked of purpose other than to just experience.  We can look at specific case histories of real people and see that there is purpose in life other than experience.  


yes its quite simple really, they are still experiencing....lol

its their intent. the intent of what they want to experience i think your having confusion with.
But its simple, what do we do? we experience physical reality.  The direction in which we experience. Is the intent of the experience.

Quote:
I am truly starting to think that Mary's posts/transcripts are more than a diversion or thought provoking; I think that they may be truly harmful a la Reverend Jim Jones.  Raz if Mary says to drink tainted Kool Aid - don't do it!


that was an idiotic statement, or bad sense of humor, take your pick:)

Quote:
Many have had communications with other forms of consciousness.  I see no proof to back up Mary's statements about her philosophy other than the notion that Elias (fake or real) somehow is a more highly evolved consciousness.  Many other communications from discarnate entities don't agree with Elias-speak.  Hmmmm......so why do we lend credence to Mary (those that do?)


Elias is not a highly evolved comnsciousness. Because he doesnt  reinforce the belief in evolution of higher planes and what have you. thats another one of our interpretations of elias. not how elias himself describes himself.  
He is a consciousness focused in another area. Its in this area we hold the beliefs in higher planes and more evolved consciousness.
So the interpretation is a relative one according to your beliefs in such things.


Quote:
Raz, respond to my post.  Why should my son not drop out of school, do and sell drugs, and say what the f--- if we are all here to experience.  Elias-speak on responsibility does not adequately answer this question.  Maybe you can.  Ah, and then maybe, just maybe, Matthew and Raz will have a discussion with each other.  Maybe Mary will be left to her own then!


I didnt see you post that before. hmm
and maybe its me but i dont get the question.
But if thats your sons choice, i can see it would be a problem for you. but did you always like people directing your experience?
Say your son goes out and graduates college with high honors and as hes walking into his first day at his first big paying lob he gets hit by a u.p.s. truck. then what?
im tired of these circumstantial story problems.


But your the one with the attitude thats its 'just f'n experience.'  i dont think elias said its 'just f'n experience.'
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #63 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 12:00am
 
Ok, justin, if thats your real name...


Quote:
That may be so, but could that just mean that the "channel" doesn't want to scare people away?


thats is funny in light of all this sceptisim and especially in what the doc just said:
Quote:
I think that they may be truly harmful a la Reverend Jim Jones.  Raz if Mary says to drink tainted Kool Aid


This apprreciation and acceptance and non-judgemental-ness of elias i think scares him:)

Quote:
Actually, if there were impersonal criticisms in there, i would be more apt to believe it, cause in looking at the E.C. readings, there are definite examples of criticisms from the source to specific individuals, for teaching purposes and helping a person become more aware of their dark, unconscious self.


Are you blind? Smiley Elias offers plenty of criticism. Ask berserker.  Elias and seth practically criticise most of our mass held beliefs.
though he doesnt say to an individual they are crap for holding these mass held beliefs.
and Both seth and elias explain negativity well.

Quote:
Can't grow when stuff is unconscious, and a Light Being is able to merge its energies with another consciousness fully, so it can see its "rights and wrongs" and whats best for its growth.


ok, again this is covered in the material.  Look up the engaging in conflict exercise on the elias site.

Quote:
Usually though, the source of Cayce's readings stuck more to principles and concepts.  Cayce himself was quite chastised a few times...basically the more mature a developing Soul, the more it can "handle the truth" about its own unregenerated false self and its illusions which are blocking it.


I truly dont see what your problem is with elias.

  Quote:
This is what guidance does all the time, trying to get us to move past these unconscious, self limiting, and making ourselves suffer tendencies.


yeap, covered.

Quote:
Course we need to do the work, though, and make the actual choices...basically they just make us more aware of what our actual choices are...and more importantly, what these choices will attract.


very good.

though, if there wasnt so much objection i could of given you quotes from elias showing you how your basically in line with what he says only your terms and the way you express these ideas are differnet.

oh what the hell, heres one little tiny elias quote:

ELIAS: “I am what you are. I am the same as you. I am an energy personality essence, in like manner to yourself. You also are an energy personality essence, but you choose to be focusing your attention within the exploration of physical dimensions. I choose not, presently. I hold a remembrance and you have forgotten, and this is the difference, and beyond this, what I am is the same as what you are.” (Smiling)
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #64 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 1:07am
 
  I haven't read much of Elias, and i'm more critical of what i know of the channel.  I think the money issue is more important than you are giving it credit for...  I think it says a lot in and of itself.

  I've read more Seth, and am critical of those teachings in general, though i find some interesting and thought provoking, and i belive that Roberts was probably sincere.

  My beliefs don't have to matter to you, and i have no problem with you believing these sources.

  But i do disagree with some fundamental teachings in there, especially with Seth.

  From what i understand of Elias, and from what you are saying, Elias seems to be stressing what i call the "absolute" reality, the unchanging, unjudgmental, no value, no better or worse reality?

  I actually don't have a problem with that ultimate view....

But, i don't think that things are so black and white, and i believe there is another reality that co-exists simulataneously, which we could call the relative--the changing, growing, expanding reality.

  This reality has rights and wrongs for individual consciousnesses, but rights and wrongs which are relative to each, particularly depending on the degree of consciousness.

  A Consciousness, or Essence who chooses to know, feel, express, and share "Oneness" seems to have more "responsibility" to its fellow consciousnesses, and is more negatively affected by self choices which add to the suffering of its other parts, and correspondingly will feel more suffering, and its vibratory patterns will begin to slow down, become more dense, and eventually if consistent enough start to become more negatively polarized (passive, constricted, "dark" seeming) than not.

  Its all choice based, and relative to the individual in how the choice affects the very state of being of that individual.

   I don't think Elias is totally wrong, but rather he is missing the other half of the pie.

  Basically Individuality and individual awareness=the relative reality, and Oneness Consciousness, which is an objective fact of existence=absolute reality.

  We will always have self as a reference, so there will always be an indiviudality of sorts, yet the basic objective Truth of Oneness will also always be a reality, and in the relative Reality its an every growing reality.

  These are not things which i came to believe through one or two Sources, but rather through many varied sources, putting different pieces of the puzzle together with my guidance's clear input at times.

  Why are you so attached to one, or two sources of info...

  You contradict yourself on every argument, and debate, because you seem to be saying that Elias and/or Seth are more "right", or at least have a more "expanded" view, whatever that means...

  And you continue to debate these teachings, which is immensely ironic considering the nature of the teachings involved, which basically says that everyone is just expressing, there are no rights or wrongs, no choices which inherently expand you, or limit you, except for the choice to be limited or expanded.

  So why are you trying so hard to convince us, if it doesn't matter in the long run...  Is preaching just how you like to express and create?  But...maybe deep down you are trying to help us see what you feel, nay "know" is right, and beneficial for us? 

  Its hard to take your arguments seriously when you contradict yourself so much.

  And, the fact that you have to personally insult a poster doesn't lend much credence to your unright, unwrong Elias based arguments.

Like, "Are you blind? "

  Dunno, why don't you tell me, you sure seem to have a lot of opinions, perhaps you can accurately tell me the reality i've created for myself?  Actually, i do consider myself somewhat blind, and only because i don't fully live the principle of Oneness and living for others over self like Yeshua, Buddha, and other Teachers did.

  I have a standard--Oneness.  I rarely live it perfectly, or consistently, but when i do there is automatically pure joy and a peace that cannot be described which floods my entire Being....

  This is more "proof" to me than any intellectual debate, or teachings from a channeler who charges 270 a popp just to supposedly help people.

  I've done (astro/intutive) readings of my own for almost a decade, and have only ever charged once (25 dollars to be exact).  This is called putting your money and actions where your beliefs are.

  Basically..we all suffer...and we (or most of us) don't seem to like suffering and our pain...and basically we will suffer until we start to choose reality over unreality, love over unlove, Oneness over just self.

  Only living this, gets us anywhere, and the happiest people i've ever met, were the ones who really seemed to live this in their everyday life...  They don't just talk about their beliefs, they live them. 

  I aspire to be more like some of these people, as i want to foster more and more Oneness, cause Oneness just feels darn good and why wouldn't i want everyone to feel this, this eventually consistent happiness (though sometimes the false self needs to be laid bare for the Real self to shine through)?

  I believe that many here would vouch for this, and also for the fact that they suffer because they do not live this consistently and perfectly like a Jesus, Buddha, or Krishna type.

Peace fellow suffering one, long to see the day when you don't suffer anymore at all...

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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #65 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 1:52am
 
 Raz wrote, Elias offers plenty of criticism. Ask berserker.  Elias and seth practically criticise most of our mass held beliefs.
though he doesnt say to an individual they are crap for holding these mass held beliefs.
and Both seth and elias explain negativity well.


 Hmmm, seeing as this was in reference to something i said about Cayce, and peoples experience with this source, it seems to imply that Cayce's Source was telling people they were crap for holding certain beliefs?

 Well, either way, from what i have studied in the readings, Cayce's source magnified the best in people, and even if a person was choosing to be very negative, the Source would look for a positive aspect within that person to spring on.

 Yet, at the same time, this Source occasionally impersonally criticized people..well more specifically not them, but how they were acting.

 Its like the difference between saying, "you're a bleepity bleep!" or calmly saying, "you're acting like a bleepity bleep right now"...

 One is a much more "absolute" statement about the very beingness of the person, and this is the very definition of "judging" of which Jesus so warned us about, if we didn't want to suffer anymore, and to be "judged" in turn.

 The latter is making a detached statement about the temporary choices and ways of the person.  In the case of Cayce's source, it was designed to help them see unconscious and unregenerated negative tendencies of which they were not very honest about...

 As long as it remained unconscious, and as long as they continued not to face self, and these tendencies...they wouldn't fully grow to their full spiritual potential--that standard of Oneness again.

 The Source was motivated by a helpful intent, motivation, and its that oh so subtle Spirit in which you do something which matters much more than the actual appearance of "action" or what have you.

 Ones stating a perception for universally helpful purposes, but what most seem to do, most of the time is to judge.

 We have faculities of perception for a reason, and there is nothing wrong with perceiving any aspect of the Relative reality in its relation to the One absolute standard of Oneness.

 It's when negative emotions, ego, and not seeing the Real self of another as well as the relative manifestations of the false self, and one could say at the expense of...which hinders both us and them, and the collective...

 Again, its always about the collective.

 Now without any emotion, but just clear feeling and thought and with a desire to help you, i can tell you certain seemingly "negative" things about you and how you are being, without attracting suffering on my part, or what some term creating negative Karma.

 No, i'm not going to do it, but was just making a point.  

 The closer the individual Essence, or consciousness gets its inner frequencies to resonate (through freewill choice) to the energy of that standard--Oneness/Universal Love, which can be thought of White Light, the more they can "look" into you accurately and clearly, and see what would help you, and how you choose right from wrong according to your degree of Light.

 I recently personally criticized some people on this site.  Most of it was not judging but stating perceptions, yet i realized that i'm not "close" enough to that White Light energy to be as helpful as possible, and i should ignore this facet of helping people until i know i am "there".

 Because most of it was not judging, i didn't get that automatic feel bad, and unhappy type feeling when i said those things...  At some points, i was more judging, and so correspondingly, my state of being reacted by suffering and feeling not too good about myself.

 Sadness, confusion, worry, doubt, etc. are all manifestations of ego and choosing false self over real self..  When you judge someone, you are choosing false self over real self, and will suffer.

 How fast and intensely you suffer, depends on your vibratory rate, and attunement to the Field (as Bruce calls it), people that are very attuned, or resonate more or less harmoniously with the Fields energy, will feel things much faster and more intensely...

 A karmic friend of mine once blasted me with some "perceptions" about me via email, which were really judgements, and unconscious negative feelings which they had been feeling towards me for awhile to varying degrees of consciousness and/or intensity...

 Guess what happened, a day after, they became intensely sick with food poisoning.

 Because they are of a more expanded consciousness and someone who meditates oft, their very conscience and energy balance rebelled against their body forces, temp. creating inharmony within the body, and weakening it...

 Love, or Oneness feelings on the other hand, can only eventually strengthen and harmonize a body...and if someone attunes enough to the One Field, then they can heal others through their very harmonious energy emanations, or "quantum waves of coherence and order".

 Light, basically they can radiate ever more brilliant and amplified Light waves, which is of the energy of Life, of Source itself--what Cayce's Source called "The Creative Forces".

 My friend should have realized this, and seen for their own good their unconscious belief systems about me, but they seem to fear to be that self honest, and to face the false self...cause why?  Its initially painful to face ones false self, and realize certain things about self.

 And at every turn, my friend contradicted themselves and preached against non "negative" perception and judgment of others, and that we shouldn't try to "teach" others, but sure didn't mind to offer to teach me, and rather consistently i might add.  Strange the difference between preaching, and putting it into practice?

  Consistent contradiction is often a clear indication of coming more from one's false self as well. 

  Well, either way, our Disks will all eventually get it "right" and then truly move beyond right and wrong...and then they can only choose love, and every act, thought, feeling, etc. becomes one of love.
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #66 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 3:31am
 
Quote:
I don't think Elias is totally wrong, but rather he is missing the other half of the pie.

  Basically Individuality and individual awareness=the relative reality, and Oneness Consciousness, which is an objective fact of existence=absolute reality.


Justin ,interesting posts.... , but that piece isnt missing at all, either Smiley

And the reason is because elias basis the oraganization of his material on beliefs and belief systems that he calls our core beliefs.
http://www.eliasforum.org/digests/beliefsys.html

relationships (interpersonal/intrapersonal = self/other)
duplicity (morality/ethics)
sexuality (sexuality/gender/orientation/preference)
truth (relative truths/Absolute Truth)
emotion (emotional/feeling)
perception (perceptual/attention)
the senses (inner/physical sensing)
religious/spirituality (exoteric/esoteric)
scientific/elements of physical reality (scientific/rational)
physical creation of the universe, including accidents and coincidences (creation mythos)

10 core beliefs. he defines at great length.

my interpretation currently is that these are the idea structures that comprise what we call our ego.

one being truth. follow this link and check out even the first paragragh.... the creator of that site mentions that very thing i quoted from you.
http://www.eliasforum.org/digests/truth.html
its a different look at truth. and that half of pie is there for the taking and will give you probably a great look at what elias is about.
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Justin & Raz
Reply #67 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 11:58am
 
I think Alysia needs to close the loop in her allegation re. the two Subject posters. 

If she is right, that needs to be so stated.  If wrong,  an apology is most certainly needed.

Unfortunately this is not the first case where things were posted about some board members which were not only incorrect but highly inappropriate to post even if they were true.

And to this day, months later, an apology still hasn't been offered.
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #68 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 12:07pm
 
I have a hard time with all this dissension here on this board. I left for a few days because the negativity is palpable and that is not the way this board was created. It was created to discuss the afterlife. I see nothing but jabs back and forth and it's very sickening to me.

So what if Alysia said something. Are you all so judgemental?  Let it go. You're just helping to create more negativity here.

Look in your hearts and see just what it is you are trying to do.  Try to start that spark of LOVE that is there and take a good look at yourselves.

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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #69 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 1:40pm
 
I have felt the same way at times, Marilyn.  But I feel that life is messy, and sometimes a healthy debate gets a good resolution.  I haven't had one with the Mary/Elias crew, because they are here to "experience" or cut and paste Mary responses to my questions (instead of give their own explanations).  Ah, well.  

To say the teenager who falls into drugs and debases himself/herself has just decided to "experience" that - let them do it....and to say that notions of PUL and divinity are just beliefs, not particularly a path to follow or to aspire to is bunk in my book.   And yes, many posters have commented on the M/E crowd's anger and self-centeredness in their posts.

Elias is a feel good philosophy, consistent with itself.  "you are not here to learn anything"  
"you are only here to experience."   So simple.  Sounds good right?  Maybe for some.  

So yes, if Marta or Raz are impressed with the consistency Mary has whipped up, Bravo.  Its consistent.  Consistency without love/heart/soul/purpose is not what I'm looking for, however.  

I am looking for further posts from Marilyn, Marta (without quotes), Dave, Kathy, Justin and even Don.  I enjoy conversations with many others as well (Chilipep., Spitfire).  If I can't get into the deeper conversations on this forum, it will lose its appeal for me as well.  

Matthew
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #70 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 2:41pm
 
I seriously doubt Justin and Raz are the same person. Since saying so may imply to a layperson that he has a serious mental disorder, or his integrity is seriously in question, I think it is incumbant upon Alysia, since she made the charge, to either prove it or apologize. As much as admire Alysia, and I admire her a great deal, I think some of her credibility is at stake here.

Alysia,

Are you upholding your own posting standards?

Rob
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #71 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 3:40pm
 
  I agree with Ronedele about stuff happening awhile ago.

  I want to publically apologize to everyone here about bringing up such personal issues on this site previously under the posting name Justin2710.  This wasn't the place for it, and was disrespectful to other posters, and to Bruce.  On a personal level, i realized it's best not too point out the false self tendencies of others until this consciousness is more clear and White Light immersed myself.

  So, i've been trying to stick more to impersonal concepts, beliefs, and teaching comparisons.

  Appreciate your patience with me.

  Hi Mair,

  Whereas i see where you are coming from, i really don't see that much negativity here.   Why judge it so much?  It is what it is, and whose to say that in the long run it isn't of benefit?

  Things cannot always be 100 percent peaceful, agreeing, and super nice all the time.  We are NOT all Masters, and should not be forced to act in that manner, this is how we live and learn, by our mistakes.

  Its not just that Alysia said something once, she has restated her false accusation, and on some level seems to be wanting to start some trouble.  On a personal level, her knowing how much i'm going through lately, and doing this shows how much she is suffering to try to add to another person's plate of difficulty.  I'm trying to look past this aspect of her and hold her in the Light of her True Self.

  And its a good thing (for me) i've regained my center and detachedness, and am not taking it personally.

  However, on a practical, teaching level, i am abiding by the rules again, and there were people who complained to Bruce when i was not abiding by the rules here, well i was told flatly, justly, and impersonally that this is not the place.    I agreed, and out of a bit of hurt and self pity, i thought i should leave since it seemed few "accepted" me here. 

  I realized that was the way of ego, and running away (so Rob was partly right there), and while i don't fully accept my attachment to these sites, and to the need for communication, regardless i feel the need to express.

  Also consider the average, or Archetypal differences between women and men.
Men tend to debate more, because they tend to be more left brained and about ideas, thoughts, and concepts.   They on average, can detach more from their emotions in these kinds of things.

  Women (not all, but on average) tend not to debate as much, and tend to need "peace' more, and they have a harder time detaching from their emotions in situations like these.

  Basically, there just different ways of expressing, and ones not better than the other, as in all things balance is to be desired.   Sometimes its better to shut ones trap, to listen, or to just support, and find something to agree on.   Other times its best to impersonally debate and disagree, and to be very active in expressing.


  Hi Raz,

  Ok, well thanks for the interest, and the debate either way.   Hopefully we clarified some stuff for others here.


  Hi Rob,

  What i don't understand about this whole situation, is that i have posting to this site previous to my name change, for a year.   If one reads all my posts, they may see a pattern of mostly positivity, support, relating, and expanding upon concepts and beliefs.   Only for that recent period did i get consistently personal.

  Everyone seemed to forget about the old Justin quite easily, the one who just tried to help, and relate impersonally.   

  Same thing on Linn's site, posted a half a year there, and generally quite positive.   After the drama, and if i was as immature as people are trying to accuse me of, why didn't i go over to Linn's site and start to cause some trouble there?

  I have no interest in that, simply cause i'm much more mature than that.

   Like me, Alysia needs to worry more about herself, and how well or not she is putting forth PUL, instead of concentrating on others.

  I don't think "credibility" is an issue here, and i don't need an apology from her, because i know the real issue is "suffering" and acting out from suffering.   I have much compassion for her lately, from seeing more varibles than i did previously.

  Thanks DocM, Alysia, Rondele, Mair, Raz, P.A., and Rob, and hopefully we can drop this silly debate soon, its getting old and boring... Onto bigger and better stuff Wink
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #72 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 4:26pm
 
I guess I'm just not aware of everything that has been said. It's getting to be too much for me to keep up with every post. I just hate to see so much negativity here and I don't just mean this thread. I just happened to read some of it. I should have said the whole board in general.

It used to be a good spiritual experience for me to come here and post retrievals/explorations. Now everything, and I do mean everything, has to be proven. All of this is reflecting the negativity that is so prevalent in the world today.

Maybe there needs to be a debating forum here.

Peace,
Mairlyn  Grin
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #73 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 4:35pm
 
 Mair, perhaps it is more reflecting the clearing that needs to take place, and is taking place for the changes?

If thats the case, then in the long run, isn't it a very positive thing?

 Its like we have had all this underground negativity, corruptness, greed, selfishness in the world for so long and it was the majority way...

 Now things are changing, and this stuff is coming out more and more, and being shown clearly, and i believe this is very important for growth.

 Like in the U.S. how all this recent stuff about the abuses and corruptness of various Corporations are coming out more and more and more people are starting to become deeply aware of the dark part of us and our society.

 This needs to happen on all levels...  This board, is just acting as a reflector of this clearing, and this is a microcosmic clearning of the more expanded and collective macrocosmic clearing.

 We are getting close to some intense waves in the changes, and so things are getting more intense, and will get even more intense in relationships of all kinds.

 Basically, just worry about holding your center, is the best advice i could give, that and meditation--the time tested way of balance and attuning, that even Jesus needed to do...
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #74 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 4:49pm
 
I sense a negativity in the world at present and dangerously so in the US.  This, along with the reports of terrorist activity in the US, possibly with nuclear devices make me think in my gut that catastrophic tragedies are about to unfold.

Thus, I read some posts on the coming of age of consciousness and understanding with a bit of realism and scepticism.  It creates sadness and yes fear, which I know is not a real or useful feeling.

M
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #75 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 4:52pm
 
Quote:
Mair, perhaps it is more reflecting the clearing that needs to take place, and is taking place for the changes?


Justin, thank you so much for this. Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees. (Or however that goes LOL)

OK, so the whole forum is clearing/cleansing. Now that I can resonate with and understand.  Roll Eyes

Much Love,
Mairlyn  Grin
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #76 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 5:06pm
 
Quote:
I sense a negativity in the world at present and dangerously so in the US.  This, along with the reports of terrorist activity in the US, possibly with nuclear devices make me think in my gut that catastrophic tragedies are about to unfold.

Thus, I read some posts on the coming of age of consciousness and understanding with a bit of realism and scepticism.  It creates sadness and yes fear, which I know is not a real or useful feeling.

M


 Good point Matthew.  I think it will come...eventually, but not as easily or stress free as many channelers out there have been leading us to believe.

 You can't just automatically jump from one dimensional way of being, to 2 more (many say we are shifting into the 5th dimension), especially not when the majority still chooses to live in ego and darkness.

 This is why i do believe in Monroes vision of the 3500 A.D. cycle.  I believe this will be the full ascension that so many are talking about lately.

 But some seem to think that this will happen in 2012.

 I believe while it will get amped up more and more as time goes by, its still a gradual process...

Besides, what fosters true growth more?  Stagnant peace, or friction, difficulty, testing, and challenge?

 Rob, i, and many others can attest that there is nothing better than some good ole fashion ego pain and challenge to grow.

 I dunno, but sometimes i feel like i was dropped off here from somewhere else, and i just don't get it all, and why it has to be such a process, but thats the thing about collective mind...

 We are growing collectively, and unfortunately many of the parts just don't smell the consciousness a'brewing too much yet.   Moving down to VA, i am very strongly reminded of this, as there is a mentality here which coming from more strict, yet liberal MA, i just don't get.

 Environment?  Who cares about that?  Politics?  I just hate the b*stards!  

 Question things?  Why would i want to go do that?

 I know these are generalizations and that there are very conscientious people here.   But, sometimes i long for Amherst MA again...a truly blessed and aware place, and has such a happy aura there, with a lot of powerful idealism.

 I have a hard time seeing so many people, and the collective mentality in places like around here, ascend to the 5th dimension come 2012, especially not without some kind of wake up call from outside sources and experiences.



Your welcome Mair  Smiley  Don't worry, we'll get it 'right' eventually.
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Raz
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #77 - Jan 7th, 2006 at 3:15am
 
Ok, lets talk intents for a second.
Since we have discussed our purpose is to experience.
Our intent to experience may follow a common theme with eachother which is why you can see a like attracts like in relationships.

Now, this will require a use of elias material to show this connection in which why you think justin is me and vice versa.
And these are my impressions though they dont constitute as absolutes because im not justin, though I recognize his intents.
So, my impression is justin is Sumafi/Sumari
As am I. Elias calls these essence family intents.
Now, i will post these descriptions and i want to know from you guys whether this is accurate.

first, sumafi:
Elias: "I will explain to you, this family incorporates the focus of teaching. It incorporates teachers of every element and every subject of your existence. Many who manifest being a part of this family will be individuals connected with universities. They may be aligned with museums, they may be religious leaders, they may be within government; any area of society that incorporates any element of teaching, you will find these individuals.

In other time periods within your history, they have been ‘keepers of knowledge.’ They have manifest as scribes. Many have chosen religious-focuses. They are quite intent upon keeping truths. Their intent also is in the direction of the least distortion. Therefore, within any element of teaching, they strive to incorporate the least distortion, the most original, the most pure.

These essences also, of Sumafi, I will express, are playful. They do not incorporate the seriousness that you think of, within physical focus, of ‘solemn teachers!’ They are quite flexible and incorporate much humor, for this is an asset to teaching. They are also quite experiential, understanding the value of experience with teaching. You learn through experience; therefore they are quite directing of experiences, and hold much desire to be experiencing.

... [You] will find a great concentration of Sumafi as teachers within the elements of arts, all arts; art being that which they view to be quite important, placing a very high value upon aesthetic beauty. We have begun our sessions originally by speaking to you of living artfully and incorporating beauty; this being aligned with your intent, as you are Sumafi. I continue to incorporate these elements throughout our meetings, and when you are moving away and being forgetful of the beauty and the artfulness of yourselves and your creations, I am immediate to be reminding you.

and Sumari:

Sumari (Speakers)

ELIAS: In continuing, we move to my color of blue. The essence family that I choose to represent is Sumari. The Sumari are playful. They are creative. They are spiritual. They are your artists. They are not teachers of art; they are doers. The Sumari are doers of everything! They incorporate action. They materialize what the Sumafi and the Gramada initiate. This essence family incorporates great creativity.

I have spoken to you of the initiators, these being the driving forces behind the actualizers. Therefore, the initiators within the arts would be the manifest individuals who promote the individual artists. These of the Sumari are the artists. They do incorporate the spotlight. They enjoy being within the forefront of all action. They are not introverted or shy individuals! They are quite extroverted. They also are quite independent. They do not align themselves with groups. They do not align themselves with societies or governments or religions. They are your rebellious group. They are the individuals that butt against everything! They are your salmon swimming upstream! They do not conform. You will find, in movements of cultures, individuals who are refusing to conform to the norm. These individuals belong to the Sumari.

Within your culture, within this country of yours, you have been exposed to a movement of the Sumari before you physically, within your time of great change, within this century; your young individuals, your students who revolted, who refused to conform; your ‘flower children.’ These were Sumari. They are great expressers of love and freedom. They choose not to align themselves within groups, for they feel that this is constricting of their individuality and creativity. They are tremendous expressers of individuality. They are your triumphers for the individual. They are focused upon the development, within all creativity, of each individual. They stress spirituality, but only within the individual, not within a religious-focus.

They are connectors. They connect essence to focus. They are also temporary. They are your physical ‘pop-ins’ of cultures. They do not establish cultures to be lasting. They ‘pop-in’ to established cultures, they encourage individual thought and creativity and spirituality, and they ‘pop-out!’ They initiate thought. They initiate remembering of connections. You will not find Sumari in long-lasting cultural situations. They will appear, temporarily, to be ‘stirring your pot,’ so to speak; and then they will, as suddenly as it may seem that they appeared, they will disappear.

The Sumafi is greatly involved with Sumari, for Sumafi incorporates before and after. When your Sumaris appear, they are taught by Sumafi. When they disappear, their ideas are continued and held steadfast by Sumafi. Within your present time, the Sumari have initiated, they have manifest, they have ‘stirred your pot’ temporarily, they have altered your focus. Now, the Sumafi incorporates the carrying on of this in teaching; therefore you, now."


that is my impression of justins fsmily intents according to elias data here:
http://www.eliasforum.org/digests/essence_families.html#Sumafi2


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Rondele
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #78 - Jan 7th, 2006 at 6:49am
 
Alysia apparently has chosen to abandon this board.  Here is her post on Linn's board

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:12 am    Post subject: Exerpt from Roadsigns 
Reply with quote
"Hi family. I'm home again. I'm not going back to AKF..too much grief over there. love you all. alysia"

If Alysia should happen to lurk over here, I'd just like to reassure her that any grief that she perceives on this board is grief that she herself caused by her baseless accusations and by her refusal to clear the air and simply extend an apology.

And I'd also like to tell her that although she has many good qualities, the one thing she has to face up to sooner or later in her life is taking personal responsibility for the things she has done.

Last summer when she chose to reveal highly personal aspects of another poster's problems, and indulged in speculations about that person that were totally false, she declined to do the right thing and step up to the plate and apologize.

Now she is handling the latest controversy by leaving the board and also by implying to the folks at Linn's board that the "grief" is the fault of this board and its members instead of the result of what she herself has done.

Frankly Alysia, this is all very disappointing and all very unnecessary.  You are a better person than this.  You underestimate the understanding and forgiveness of members of this board. 

You can run away from an internet conversation board, but you can't keep running away from yourself.
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Axel
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #79 - Jan 7th, 2006 at 7:11am
 
Rob, to be honest, i know beyond a doubt that Elias does not exist. It is too easy for someone who knows perfectly Seth's material to do such things.I could do it myself if my english was perfect because i have a deep knowledge in what Marylias says.
And come on, a desicarnate entity would have probably better things to do than spending 5 or six hours per day talking to people so that mary Ennis fills her pockets each day...The thousand dollars that M.E gets each day, it is for her,not for Elias. I do not blame her for getting a lot of money, i am blaming her for faking everything. I have studied her a lot , her and her Elias stuff and i can assure you that Elias does not exist. I had to deal in the past with such people and nobody more than me can tell who is fake or not, unfortunately.
 How ever,i am not saying that Seth did not exist,on the contrary.I still have to study it but maybe in one year i will tell you what i think  lol
 The funniest thing is how Maryelias avoids questions in her sessions lol   NEVER SHE GIVES AN ANSWER THAT A NORMAL HUMAN BEING COULD NOT GIVE....   Consider what i am saying Rob. THink about M.E motivations before you decide to have a session with her. And "Elias" is full of s***, he can not speak french at all  Grin  I spoke to him during my session and did not get a word  Grin
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« Last Edit: Jan 7th, 2006 at 1:23pm by N/A »  
 
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Ellen2
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #80 - Jan 7th, 2006 at 1:09pm
 
A person gets to know the nature of any entity by observing its effects.  Look at the effects of Marta & Dora on this board; they've successfully sowed discord & have gone their silent way.  And now Alysia, a longstanding member is gone.  I know long standing board members frequently leave & return, but they always announce their intentions.  But Alysia gone without a word.  I hope it's not due to undeserved shame.  She has her faults as do we all, but does not deserve to banish herself in this way.  Marta's first posting was welcomed by a member of this board.  Perhaps Don was right and the board should be more discriminating about what it embraces.
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herebutnot
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #81 - Jan 7th, 2006 at 2:02pm
 
Sympathy for the Devil  Wink   (M.Jagger/K.Richards)

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith

And I was 'round when Jesus Christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that Pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

I stuck around St. Petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain

I rode a tank
Held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
(woo woo, woo woo)

I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made
(woo woo, woo woo)

I shouted out,
"Who killed the Kennedys?"
When after all
It was you and me
(who who, who who)

Let me please introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached Bombay
(woo woo, who who)

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
(who who)
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby
(who who, who who)

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's confusing you
Is just the nature of my game
(woo woo, who who)

Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me Lucifer
'Cause I'm in need of some restraint
(who who, who who)

So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
(woo woo)
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah
(woo woo, woo woo)

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
(who who)
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down
(woo woo, woo woo)

Woo, who
Oh yeah, get on down
Oh yeah
Oh yeah!
(woo woo)

Tell me baby, what's my name
Tell me honey, can ya guess my name
Tell me baby, what's my name
I tell you one time, you're to blame

Oh, who
woo, woo
Woo, who
Woo, woo
Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Oh, yeah

What's my name
Tell me, baby, what's my name
Tell me, sweetie, what's my name

Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Oh, yeah
Woo woo
Woo woo

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Raz
Ex Member


Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #82 - Jan 7th, 2006 at 3:13pm
 
hey axel,

this following excerpt elias explains the reason he doesnt speak to you in french, check it out

"ELIAS:  The exchange occurs for the most part subjectively, as you are aware.  Therefore, I am aware of the energy exchanged between these individuals.  I do not operate from the area of thought processes as do you.  Therefore, language is irrelevant.  It is merely relevant for your understanding and for your connection for information, but it is basically an interaction subjectively.

The language element is understood.  It is chosen not to be entering the area of accessing other languages within this energy exchange in speaking other languages, for this is inefficient for our purposes.  It would be affecting of your understanding and many other individuals’ understanding.  You occupy this location within this country within the basic language of that which we speak.  Therefore, within the allowance of information and your transcribing, it is chosen to be focusing within this language.

It also is unnecessary to be performing parlor tricks that other individuals may focus upon and not focus upon the information itself.

But I am quite understanding of information which is being communicated within other languages.  I am quite understanding of the translation which has been occurring, and offered also clarification for elements not stated; also attempting to be moving slowly within answers, understanding that within translation, if too much information is offered at once, the translation may become distorted, and also monitoring the translation carefully, that no distortion is incorporated, understanding that each of you, expressing to each other what I have stated to you, hold the tendency to be misinterpreting quite often, even within immediate time frameworks.

Another individual may approach this forum and may be expressing within translation of languages of Chinese or French or German or Italian, and I shall understand the translations being audibly expressed.  I shall not be expressing to them within their native language, but I shall monitor the translation and address to it if there occurs distortion, understanding fully what is being said. "

http://transcripts.eliasweb.at/t_session?session_nr=227
session 227 where there are individuals speaking spanish.


Quote:
And come on, a desicarnate entity would have probably better things to do than spending 5 or six hours per day talking to people so that mary Ennis fills her pockets each day...The thousand dollars that M.E gets each day, it is for her,not for Elias. I do not blame her for getting a lot of money, i am blaming her for faking everything.


that is horrible, axel.  I doubt you have a deep understanding of anything about M.E.
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Carolyn
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #83 - Jan 7th, 2006 at 4:36pm
 
Quote:
I'm trying to look past this aspect of her and hold her in the Light of her True Self.

Hi Justin,

Do you mind giving an example? (of you holding her in the Light of her True Self) and can you let the rest go? I'm not trying to cause trouble myself, just wondering how one does this while seeming to be in conflict with another. (We all have conflicts, I know, so this would be helpful for me to see how this works for others.)

Do you think that she could have honestly confused the two (or more) of you? Sometimes that happens. Even my own mother sometimes thinks I am my sister on the phone, and the same with me mistaking my two sons, even though we/they are "totally" different. (but, since we ARE we all "ONE" perhaps these slips are just us checking in on the big picture.) I get confused myself, on boards, when people use different alias and pictures.

The opposite happens sometimes, people get overlooked. I once spent an entire weekend with my in-laws at a cottage, and later in the week we talked by phone. My father-in-law said it was great seeing the rest of the family but too bad I couldn't make it. I had talked with him, ate meals with him, helped him put together the barbecue, hugged him hello and good-bye while there. Go figure. People goof up.

There is a lot of tension, or Energy, on this board, and sometimes chest-thumping. The question seems to be, is there room for this challenge-and-debate approach, and the keeping-the-peace-approach? The board has become more diverse and complex, as it has grown in size. And it seems to be the case, throughout Earth history, that peaceful cultures are dominated by and often destroyed by more assertive ones. Maybe we can learn from the past and do it differently on this board? I am open to ideas about this myself, as I suspect this struggle is a microcosm of the world as it is going through its changes.

I picture two groups, one who likes to garden as a hobby, and is busy tilling the soil and nurturing seedlings. Along comes a group who swordfight for fun, they move about with great gusto and finese. Can these two groups exist together without hurting each other, and even gain in the process?

Love and peace,
Carolyn
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Rob_Roy
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Posts: 539
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Gender: male
Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #84 - Jan 7th, 2006 at 7:01pm
 
"I picture two groups, one who likes to garden as a hobby, and is busy tilling the soil and nurturing seedlings. Along comes a group who swordfight for fun, they move about with great gusto and finese. Can these two groups exist together without hurting each other, and even gain in the process? "

Perhaps we have a lack of balance between feminine and masculine aspects? Or does the mix now represent balance, even if it's a bit messy?

Rob
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Carolyn
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Re: A question for Alysia
Reply #85 - Jan 8th, 2006 at 9:59am
 
Rob and Justin,

Yeah, there are different energies, different approaches and neither is "right" or "wrong" and the difficulty is for each to understand the other approach. Yet they are not entirely separate. I was thinking about the Yin/Yang symbol yesterday, how the two balance but do not blend, yet each carries the other at it's heart.
...
Love,
Carolyn
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