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Message started by Vicky on Sep 9th, 2020 at 6:27pm

Title: How can nonphysical beings move or take physical objects?
Post by Vicky on Sep 9th, 2020 at 6:27pm
I was talking with my son the other day about the paranormal activity that happened in the apartment I lived in when I was 22 and had just gotten married.  He brought up some interesting theories about how some of the paranormal activity was possible and how it worked.  Iíve only ever thought about it from my own perspective, but not from the perspective of who or whatever was causing the paranormal experiences. 

So what I know for ďfactsĒ about the cause and source of the paranormal occurrences is that before we moved in, the apartment had a couple of young guys living there who believed they could practice black magic, casting spells, seances, and conjuring beings.  Thatís all I know, I donít know any specifics.  They were also suspected in a missing persons case of another young guy who was a friend of theirs.  I donít know any facts about that case.  I donít know if they left or were kicked out, but the apartment was in terrible condition when they left.  The carpet was destroyed, having burns in it, and all of the walls were graffitied with spells and dark worship writing and symbols in red ink.  I didnít see it that way but my neighbor told me about it, and it freaked her out.  She lived next door. 

The apartment building was a 4-unit, two on the bottom and two on top, each having its own outside entrance, and thatís the only way they were connected (no shared interior of any kind) so they were like four little cottages.  Mine was one of the ones on top.

So my son and I were specifically talking about the incidences where items would go missing.  These items always got returned, but usually would show up in some odd place where I hadnít left them.  For instance, my husband and I always placed our keys in a crystal dish that sat in a nook in the wall of the kitchen.  Every day I would come home from work and put my keys in the dish, go use the bathroom, change my clothes, etc, and if I were going out again my keys would not be in the dish and Iíd look everywhere.  Then finally about an hour or so later the keys would be sitting there in the dish again.  Itís the kind of thing that you can easily brush off as normal, absentminded stuff, except that it happened every single day.  When I finally brought it up to my husband he said the same thing was happening to him too!  I worked morning shifts and he worked swings, so we only saw each other in passing which is why we hadnít talked about it beforeÖwe just both assumed we were just absentmindedly putting the keys somewhere and not thinking about it.

But then the keys started appearing somewhere else, not in the dish.  Like one time they reappeared on top of the TV.  One time they showed up on top of the toilet tank.  Just weird things like that that made me know for a fact it was paranormal.

Then it started happening to my purse.  As soon as Iíd walk in the door and set my purse down it would disappear.  I knew Iíd put it on the couch but later it would be missing, and then later it would be sitting on the couch again.  So one day I specifically decided that as soon as I entered the apartment that I was going to test it.  So I opened the door, walked inside, dropped my purse on the couch and kept walking as if I were going straight into the kitchen, but I instead quickly turned around to face the couch.  And my purse was gone!!!  It disappeared instantly!  It finally reappeared about an hour later, right in the spot where Iíd left it.

So as we talked about this I began wondering, how is it possible for a spirit, ghost, or being (something nonphysical) to take something from this physical dimension?  And why did it always return those things?  I came up with a theory that possibly, what if physical objects that were taken from this dimension were not able to stay in some other dimension for very long.  What if they automatically got ďpulledĒ back because they belonged here?

My sonís idea on that theory was that maybe the way it works is that time works differently in other dimensions than it does here in the physical.  So to me my purse was missing for about an hour, but maybe to the being who pulled it into another dimension the purse was instantly pulled back?  So like, the being (or whatever it was) took my purse from this dimension but the purse instantly was pulled back simply because the purse ďbelongedĒ in the physical dimension.  And from my perspective it was gone for an hour, but from that other dimensionís perspective it was only gone for a couple seconds.  Or maybe the being who took it simply decided to return it, just to keep messing with me. 

I also wonder, how a ghost or conjured being can even take something physical.  How is it able to do that?  These items werenít merely invisible, they were not there.  As soon as I turned around and my purse was gone, I felt the couch with my hands.  The purse wasnít there. 

So did these items get taken from our dimension, or was I instead manipulated somehow into not being able to perceive them??

What do you think?  What other ideas can you think of? 

I know weíre just making up theories that we canít prove, but itís neat to think about! 

Title: Re: How can nonphysical beings move or take physical objects?
Post by rondele on Sep 10th, 2020 at 11:56am
Hi Vicky-

I'm wondering if you ever discussed this with Bruce? I'm assuming those events happened years before he died.

Sounds like typical poltergeist behavior.


Title: Re: How can nonphysical beings move or take physical objects?
Post by Vicky on Sep 10th, 2020 at 7:06pm
Hey Roger,

Yes I did tell Bruce about it.  On the first day we met, I shared with him all my weird experiences.  Back then I was desperate for someone to not only believe me but to also shed some light on why and how these things happen.  That was in March 2005.

I honestly canít remember what he said specifically about it, and I wasnít asking him these kinds of questions back then.  But over the years we often talked about all kinds of stuff like this and as I got to know Bruce better, one thing he was adamant about was not playing with Ouija boards and the like.  He said that you donít know who or what youíre communicating with and thereís a very good chance that youíll be talking with a low level spirit thatís up to no good, and the fact that the concept of conjuring means ďinviting somethingĒ means that youíre opening yourself up to be controlled or possessed in some way.  I agree.  Before living in that apartment I wouldnít have believed that stuff was really possible, but the things we experienced convinced me that those guys who were messing around with dark stuff really did conjure something. 

I wish I still could have these kinds of conversations with him.   

What really is a poltergeist?  Is it really a ghost, or is it something else than a belng who was once alive?

Title: Re: How can nonphysical beings move or take physical objects?
Post by rondele on Sep 11th, 2020 at 12:28pm
When I think of poltergeists I usually think of mischievous but not malevolent spirits. For whatever reasons they generally do their thing in places where young kids reside. Are they subconsciously attracting them?†

On the other hand an older widow living alone next to our summer cottage would tell us about small figurines flying off their shelves and hitting the opposite wall. She wasn't frightened but was plenty p-o'd! She would yell out cuss words instead† :)

I agree with what Bruce said about ouija boards. Opening portals to the other side is fraught with danger for an unprepared person. Even retrievals, if done as a parlor game, can attract undesirable entities. I remember Bruce telling us at his workshop that he did retrievals while asleep although he wasn't able to recall them when he awoke.


Title: Re: How can nonphysical beings move or take physical objects?
Post by Recoverer 2 on Sep 11th, 2020 at 12:53pm

I remember reading about what you just shared in your book.

Not too long ago I had a lucid dream, and at one point I experienced movement through a distance in a way where it was demonstrated that each new location I experienced was a new creation.

If all time is instantaneous rather than linear, it would seem that physical existence is some sort of projection, rather than an evolving physical process. The projection is done in a way where it seems as if a linear evolution takes place. So perhaps the objects you speak of moved not because they were actually moved physically, but because in a new moment of time they were projected elsewhere.

If I remember correctly, Bruce Moen wrote in one of his books that time is instantaneous and that when we move we don't actually move anywhere, rather we appear in a newly projected location that makes it seem as if we move.

Perhaps the physical World has more in common with the astral world than we think. Perhaps the projection of the physical world is set up so we can in some way perceive building blocks such as subatomic particles. Particle or wave according to how we choose to see. (two-slit experiment reference)

Regarding who moved items within your apartment, one possibility is that friendly beings projected your missing objects elsewhere, so you would become aware of the presence of unfriendly beings.† Friendly beings might've assumed that you would blame such movements on unfriendly beings. I really don't know if there is any truth to what I just said in this paragraph, but perhaps friendly beings are more capable of projecting items in a different location than unfriendly beings.† The question is, who has primary control of the projector? Going by what I've figured out, benevolent beings have control of the main projectors.

Perhaps this relates, some people have reported that they had something such as an automobile accident take place where they should've been killed or injured really bad, but they weren't harmed at all. As if some sort of divine intervention took place. Perhaps this intervention comes in the form of projecting the collision in a way where no damage takes place.

I remember one time I slowed down my car so I could make a right turn, I looked in my rear view mirror at the precise right moment, saw a car that was driving more than 50 mph make a lane change into my lane, I stepped on the gas and made my turn quickly with the thought that I didn't have enough time to avoid the on rushing car, and I didn't experience my car get hit. After I made my turn I pulled over, and two different cars drove up to me to see if I was okay. The drivers of each of these cars both thought they saw the lane changing car hit my car. I looked at my car and it wasn't hit at all.†

So I wondered if my angels were with me that day. One, I looked in my rear view mirror at the precise right instant (an instant before would've been too soon, an instant after would've been too late); two, my car wasn't hit even though two people thought they saw it get hit.

Title: Re: How can nonphysical beings move or take physical objects?
Post by Vicky on Sep 12th, 2020 at 12:53am

Yeah, Iíve always heard that poltergeists are attracted to teenagers, but wasnít sure if they were considered real ghosts or if itís just energy manifested from the personís own energy and somehow projected out and having effects on things around them.  Iíve heard it being either of those things. 

My daughter started having strange things happening around her when she was a young teenager.  It started with her complaining that any time she was watching TV by herself, the TV would shut itself off.  And one day I walked past her bedroom and heard all kinds of sounds.  It sounded like she was having a tantrum and completely trashing her room!  I looked in and she wasnít in there (and nothing was amiss), and I found her sitting downstairs doing her homework.  And then on another occasion I was in her room trying to program an old TV that her dad had handed down to her.  I had just about finished setting up the codes for the remote.  The TV was only showing ďsnowĒ and making static.  Abby walked into the room and asked how it was going and just then the TV shut itself off.  I had to start all over again programming the codes.   

AnywayÖif it IS the personís own energy that is somehow manifesting the activity, then I wonder how and why.  Iíve had a lot of my own activity around me that could be considered this poltergeist type of energy.  I think if thatís what it is, then it must be due to some pretty strong emotional energy because stuff always happened when my husband was fighting with me and being really mean and nasty, and it would cause me to get so angry but I never lashed back at him, always just held it in.  And thatís when things would happen. 

Your widow neighbor could be causing it herself!

Title: Re: How can nonphysical beings move or take physical objects?
Post by Vicky on Sep 12th, 2020 at 12:59am
Hey Albert,

Thatís pretty amazing about your near car accident and the fact that two people thought that that other car had hit you.  Wow!!  Yeah, Iíd say that you definitely had some help from your guides.  I completely believe in that stuff.  Do you remember if you asked for help at that moment you were speeding up to make the turn?  Or did you feel anything strange?

Title: Re: How can nonphysical beings move or take physical objects?
Post by Recoverer 2 on Sep 12th, 2020 at 1:22am
I didn't have time to think to ask for help, and I didn't feel anything strange, except maybe that I reacted so quickly.

Vicky wrote on Sep 12th, 2020 at 12:59am:
Hey Albert,

Thatís pretty amazing about your near car accident and the fact that two people thought that that other car had hit you.† Wow!!† Yeah, Iíd say that you definitely had some help from your guides.† I completely believe in that stuff.† Do you remember if you asked for help at that moment you were speeding up to make the turn?† Or did you feel anything strange?

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