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Message started by Recoverer 2 on Dec 30th, 2019 at 12:19am

Title: Re reincarnation
Post by Recoverer 2 on Dec 30th, 2019 at 12:19am
On her "experiencer's block" thread Maise said:

"I had a spirit guide who represented all my past life selves and another being that was an ascended soul group that helped me heal my second chakra and release attachments relating to the child abuse."

On his "life review" thread Rondelle said:

"So this leads to the obvious question. What's next for those of us who die and complete our life review? Now that we are more sensitive to our actions, in what arena do we apply those lessons?

In our next life, assuming reincarnation is real? In the afterlife?"

Perhaps related to what they said, some sources of information advocate the viewpoint that reincarnation doesn’t exist in a linear way, rather our souls exist in an Oversoul kind of way, and projects numerous portions of itself into various lifetimes. As far as I can figure, each portion lives just one lifetime, and eventually returns to its Oversoul, and the accumulated knowledge and wisdom then becomes available. Oversouls are a part of Soul Groups, and information becomes available at Soul Group level.

Due to various experiences I have had, it seems to me the above viewpoint is true. Some near death experiencers have found the same. For example near death experiencer Ron Krueger wrote the below:

“Directly in front of me, but slightly below, stood a group of spirits: less than 100, but more than 50. Each spirit had an identity of sorts, but they were part of each other-a single entity, a single awareness, all part of a single force. In the center of the front row were three oriental women. I realized that all of the spirits comprising the entity were my past lives, and the oriental women were my most recent lives.

Their faces were clearly humanoid, but from their shoulders down, their forms blurred gradually. Their arms and legs dissolved near their ends. Hovering on the same level, in rows, they seemed loosely joined at the shoulders. Their identities were of both sexes and all nationalities. None were deceased relatives, and I recognized none of them from my recent life.

Each of the spirits had lived once, but the truth and experience and wisdom of each lifetime was integral to the entire group. When each soul returned, their lives were absorbed by all, so there were no distinctions between thoughts and attitudes within the group. Each of them shared completely every experience and every knowledge of every lifetime into a single conscience. Like spices and other ingredients added to a Mulligan stew, each added to the mix, but the resulting flavor was one. I was them, and they were me. They were all of my past, and they were of my present.

They communicated with me as one, not with words, but by a kind of telepathy. Every thought, whether it was one simple emotion or volumes of information, came packaged with instant and complete understanding. No message could suffer misinterpretation, the problems of syntax, or variance of intelligence.”

Near death experiencer Thomas Sawyer wrote the below:

“Reincarnation is not a linear thing. One of the problems in defining it is that there is no analogy to it. It is outside of time, yet we can’t help but think of it in terms of the past and the future, and this incarnation. The whole story is so big and so involved.

Reincarnation is an opportunity to reach a goal. The goal is true self-realization. Self-realization is to know that you are a soul, a part of God, yet also the Whole. Perhaps no one has a very good image at all of his or her soul – the whole self. And they have no idea of what proportion their personality is in relationship to their soul.

As an example, a characteristic of your personality is one percent of all of your personality characteristics put together, and all of your personality characteristics make up your personality, and your personality is only about five percent of your soul, then we are blinding ourselves to 95 percent of the rest of our soul in order to reincarnate.

Reincarnation is an opportunity to evolve through many personalities. The definition of reincarnation is that your personality is who you are in your current lifetime, and that it can be reincarnated as an entirely different personality with the characteristics of the previous personality and previous personalities including even characteristics of another soul altogether. That is, characteristics of your present personality may be the reincarnation of other characteristics of personalities from your previous lifetimes as well as characteristics from personalities from other souls.” ... awyer.html

Near death experience P.M.H. Atwater wrote in her book We Live Forever, page 37:

“I saw that what resides within our earthly frame, what we think defines us as human beings, is but a finger of what we are, a projection from our soul’s mass.”

Near death experience Christian Andreason wrote:

“What I observed in the realm went way beyond what I would have originally thought reincarnation would be….

Reincarnation (I learned) is about birthing new energy from our original energy. When we take on a new lifetime, this happens by us merging new energy (gifted to us by God) with bits and pieces of our older energy mixed all together.

Heaven then helps us to fit into a new space (in this case a physical body) so that we might explore new ideas or feelings that require additional Soul searching and/or experience.

If there is any part of our core Self that causes us to hold serious questions about ourselves and our abilities, you can bet your bottom dollar that we will re-incarnate again and again until we are satisfied with the answers we eventually find.”

Robert Monroe’s book "Ultimate Journey" (page 166) also provides an example of a soul projecting additional parts of itself according to need:

Robert: “How far back does this [his soul’s history] go?”
Robert’s I-there: “Before you were born.”
Robert: “You had better tell me. I don’t remember.”
Robert’s I-there: “You wouldn’t. You didn’t exist. We made the decision to become human again. We selected the time and place and organized the DNA mix—elements from the physical and elements from us. We took those parts of us that seemed most appropriate, rolled them up into one, and sent them in. There you—and we—were!”
Robert: “What exactly did you send in?”
Robert’s I-there: “Personalities, memories. What else?”

Such way of evolving spiritually extends to Soul Groups. Paul Elder’s book Eyes of an Angel (pages 157-158) provides an example of souls sharing their lessons to a significant degree:

“As you know,” Meldor [Paul’s spirit guide] explained, “the main goal of a soul’s journey is to attain the perfection of unlimited love through the accumulation of knowledge by experience. Most soul groups accomplish this through a cycle of incarnations, challenging themselves, and working to overcome the obstacles. Every entity in the cluster adds to the experience, knowledge, and energy of the group. Although each soul has its own plan and life blueprint, it is loved, encouraged, and supported unconditionally by the entire group.

“The life experience of every member of the group contributes immeasurably to the strength of the whole. This is a very important aspect of the soul group. As the entire cluster of souls vibrates as one, the individual life experience of any single member becomes an experience shared by the rest of the group. This is of tremendous benefit to the advancement of the entire group. With several members of the group incarnated at the same time, the process of learning and accumulating experience is significantly improved. As the combined experience of the cluster grows, so does the power of its overall spiritual vibration. This acceleration of the developmental process allows the group to move more quickly to higher levels of understanding and vibration.”

Meldor’s statements intrigued me. “So are you saying that other members of my soul group are able to share the experience of the life I am now living?”

I am weary of information that is obtained through channeling; however I have found a few such sources that seem credible. Geraldine Cummins received information from the spirit of Frederick Myers. In the book “Road to Immortality” she wrote the below:

“Chapter VI THE GROUP-SOUL THE GROUP OF PSYCHIC CONSCIOUSNESS-- THE PHYSICAL BODY A GROUP OF ATOMIC CONSCIOUSNESS THE group-soul is one and yet many. The informing spirit makes these souls one. I think I have explained to you before, that as there are certain centers in the brain, so in psychic life there are a number of souls all bound together by one spirit, depending for their nourishment on that spirit. When I was on earth I belonged to a group-soul, but its branches and the spirit--which might be compared to the roots--were in the invisible.

Now, if you would understand psychic evolution, this group-soul must be studied and understood. For instance, it explains many of the difficulties that people will assure you can be removed only by the doctrine of reincarnation. You may think my statement frivolous, but the fact that we do appear on earth to be paying for the sins of another life is, in a certain sense, true. It was our life, and yet not our life. In other words, a soul belonging to the group of which I am a part lived that previous life which built up for me the framework of my earthly life, lived it before I had passed through the gates of birth. In this invisible world there is infinite variety of conditions.

I can only speak of what I know. I do not claim to be infallible. Take the following as the axiom I would lay down for you. Many Soul-men do not seek another earth life, but their spirit manifests itself many times on earth and it is the bond which holds together a group of souls, who, in the ascending scale of psychic evolution, act and react upon one another. So, when I talk of my spiritual forbears I do not speak of my physical ancestors, I speak of those soul-ancestors who are bound to me by one spirit. There may be contained within that spirit twenty souls, a hundred souls, a thousand souls. The number varies. It is different for each man.

But what the Buddhists would call the karma I had brought with me from a previous life is, very frequently, not that of my life, but of the life of a soul that preceded me by many years on earth and left for me the pattern which made my life. I, too, wove a pattern for another of my group during my earthly career. We are all of us distinct, though we are influenced by others of our community on the various planes of being. When your Buddhist speaks of the cycle of births, of man's continual return to earth, he utters but a half-truth. And often half a truth is more inaccurate than an entire misstatement.

I shall not live again on earth, but a new soul, one who will join our group, will shortly enter into the pattern or karma I have woven for him on earth. No doubt "karma" is a word I use incorrectly here. For it is something more and something less than karma that he inherits. I am, therefore, a kingdom, and yet I am but a unit in that kingdom. You may say to me that, for the Soul-man, one earth life is not enough. But, as we evolve here, we enter into those memories and experiences of other lives that are to be found in the existence of the souls that preceded us, and are of our group.

I do not say that this theory, which I offer you, can be laid down as a general rule. But undoubtedly it is true in so far as it is what I have learned and experienced. Now, this speculation--as you would probably call it--is interesting when applied to genius. The souls who have preceded us on earth naturally stamp us mentally and morally. If a certain type of psyche is continually being evolved in the one group, you will find that eventually that type, if it be musical, will have a musical genius as its representative on earth. It will harvest all the tendencies in those vanished lives, and it will then have the amazing unconscious knowledge that is the property of genius.

Here, in the After-death, we become more and more aware of this group-soul as we make progress. Eventually we enter into it and share the experiences of our brethren. You must understand, therefore, that existence for my soul-as separate and apart from my individual ego--is dual. I lived two lives, one in the world of form, and one subjective, in the community of which I am a member. ... tality.pdf

Title: Re: Re reincarnation
Post by Maisie on Jan 2nd, 2020 at 12:45am
What an interesting subject, ok let me qualify why I say that about my spirit guides...
I've known intuitively for a long time that I had an association with witches or witchcraft in a former life. I even looked into pagan witchcraft in this life and decided it wasn't for me. I had an experience a few years ago where I was making a compost tea in a big bin in my garden. Its a smelly concoction with manure, sea weed, and any other fertiliser type ingredients soaked in water. On this day I was stirring my bin and I thought 'its a good thing I don't have to hide this anymore'. And I knew that at some former time I had had to hide such activity because it was related to witchcraft in some way. I also knew how to make this compost tea without ever having been taught.
Fast forward to the middle of last year 2019 when I first started using binaural sounds to experience different levels of consciousness. While I was training myself with the Gateway Series, I also bought a Wake-Induced Lucid Dreaming mp3 from Hemi Sync, and on the very first time I listened to it I climbed the 1o stairs and sat at a table and was immediately met by a female feeling being, that had gnarly arthritic hands, she had purple and blue and black dreadlocks and was dressed as a witch but I have never seen her face. In later sessions as I calmed down and started to wonder who she was I asked her and she told me she is neither female nor male but a combination of both, she/he presented as a witch in order to be non threatening to me, they didn't want a male to scare me because of my child abuse experience and they wanted to introduce the idea of past lives with the one I was most likely to remember. It was meant to be funny and make light of the fact that I had been falsely accused of being a witch. (Interesting story that I can tell another time) She/he told me that they are there to guide me and to ask questions of my soul collective, the witch represents the face of my collective soul wisdom and experience.
My other guide manifested later, and was reached by travelling through an eye that opened to a tunnel. It felt slightly male but told me it was neither, he/she appeared in the form of a skinny sitting buddha, with a top knot hat or hair style and is a rough image, not a definite and distinct face either. He/she told me its name is 'Gengha' and that it is an ascended soul group, so it has the wisdom of its many collective past lives, plus universal source wisdom that I can seek guidance from. It appeared as a buddha simply to show me the difference between it and the witch and I knew this instinctively when I first came into contact with it/them. I knew it wasn't the buddha but a symbol. I asked Gengha who I should ask questions of and they told me to ask both my witch guide 'Larissa' and ask them Gengha and compare the answers to learn the difference. Gengha told me in one session that by seeking answers from my position here I am also helping my soul group to reach information that is otherwise out of their grasp. So just because they are on the other side of the veil it doesn't mean they have all the information, we are learning together. That's why its such an advantage to be a curious person as Bruce talked about in his books.
I know that they are not interested in identity, or individuality or names or gender like we are, individuality doesn't seem to matter to them and especially so from Gengha, they were happy that I didn't grasp their name and were happy for me not to attach a name; so when I said Gengha they said 'that will do'. But I know that's not the word they told me, but they wouldn't repeat it.

Its my understanding that my other soul parts have not met 'God' and are not much closer to that energy than us when we experience a connected conscious state, they just have it all the time.

["So this leads to the obvious question. What's next for those of us who die and complete our life review? Now that we are more sensitive to our actions, in what arena do we apply those lessons?

In our next life, assuming reincarnation is real? In the afterlife?"]Quote

My experiences have not been any different to that of Bob, Bruce or William Buhlman in that being in the presence of beings that know everything about you, with no secrets, you tend to spontaneously start reviewing yourself and your performance to them and they stop you because they know the whole story and are aware of your subconscious drives. I'm not sure where I read it but we are judged by them on our subconscious, because unlike our conscious mind it doesn't change much and cant be hidden. I haven't had any cause to doubt that.

You go on to talk about reincarnation and linear time and to be honest I have huge difficulty with the no time concept. It seems to be a left brain function, in there with mathematics, algebra, physics and all those tricky intelligent functions that seem to evade me. I'm sure a brain scan would show an empty void in that section of my brain.  ;D
Your theory of the over soul seems correct to the best of my knowledge and I think its something we cant know for sure till we get back home and the veil is lifted. I think if we really connected with it we would find it too excruciating to stay here.

You have some great quotes I'm excited by the new material you are introducing me to.

In reference to Tom Sawyers quote about personality traits I can give you an example from one of my past lives. I am a very quiet person, never been much of a talker and in fact I've felt that talking was inhibited in me or blocked or something. But occasionally this chatty verbal person will flow out of me and I wonder where that came from. So I meet Eric, a past life who was a boy that died in London in the 1730's, he was a street kid whose parents died when he was young so he was forced to grow up on the streets. When I first saw him in the darkness of the universe he was dancing a jig, with a big grin on his face. When he started talking it was clear he had no problem with talking and I'd even say he could make words dance and flow. He told me he was a mischievous swindler, an imp, a thief who conned the rich but looked out for the poor. His voice was his best friend, weapon and tool, quite unlike me and he was only 13 when he died. He lived below society and was wise to all its illusions, knew who the good people were and looked out for them but survived by swindling the foolish rich out of their money and had a great time doing so. So because of this he is one of my soul collective spokespersons, he is wise beyond his years and fantastic at verbal expression. Eric told me that when ever I experience that chatty person coming out its him helping me to get an important message across and that I can tap into his energy whenever I need to but I'm not to misuse it.

You wouldn't believe I'm not a great talker the way I go on in my posts. I'm just so excited to have found people to talk to about this. What a blessing. Ill finish there and go read your quotes.

Title: Re: Re reincarnation
Post by Maisie on Jan 2nd, 2020 at 7:55am
The last web link you added isn't working.

Title: Re: Re reincarnation
Post by Recoverer 2 on Jan 2nd, 2020 at 12:16pm

I don't have a lot of time yet,  so I'll respond more later.

For the last link, I suppose people will need to type it.

One night I was meditating and I wondered what it is like to be aware of a lot of information at once. Suddenly I experienced myself as an Oversoul like being and was aware of numerous incarnations at once. It wasn't hard to be aware in such a way, because I was much larger than usual, yet I still felt like me. There are other reasons for which I believe in the Oversoul idea.

Title: Re: Re reincarnation
Post by Recoverer 2 on Jan 2nd, 2020 at 1:57pm
Here is an addition to my last post, I have more time to write now.

You (Maise)  said: "Its my understanding that my other soul parts have not met 'God' and are not much closer to that energy than us when we experience a connected conscious state, they just have it all the time."

Recoverer responds: "The underlined part seems to contradict the earlier part.

Some of your experiences remind me of my experiences. I'll become lucid during a dream, realize I am having a nonphysical experience, usually sense the presence of guidance, try to figure out what to do, and I usually have experiences that relate to aspects of myself that I need to deal with.

Regarding the Oversoul principle, I first heard of it through Robert Monroe's book "Ultimate Journey," he used the term "I-there."

One night I had three back to back detailed dreams, and at the end of each dream I realized I was dreaming, as I overcame a situation that didn't seem to apply to me. Then I understood in a way that seemed certain and clear, that these three dreams were created by an intelligence beyond my own. As I woke up I asked if I am in contact with my I-there. I was in an expanded state of consciousness. I heard voices reply that I am in contact with my I-there, and they basically said that they were happy that I made contact with them.

During this point of my life, with my eyes open, I would see spirits appear as points of bright light (these lights would flash). When I made contact with my I-there on this occasion, with my eyes open,  I  saw numerous points of white light flash on and off. I heard a voice say, "just as you found inconsistencies in your dreams, find inconsistencies in your waking state."

Before the above experience took place, I would sometimes see visual imagery as I meditated. I didn't understand why. I thought that I might be doing some form of remote viewing, except that I saw some things that seemed odd. After the above three dream experience I realized that my I-there/guidance was trying to communicate to me as I meditated.

Afterwards, as I meditated, I would ask questions, and I would receive symbolic visual messages. Sometimes an answer would come in the form of a waking dream experience. On some occasions I was provided with information I didn't know about and could verify later. I was very diligent about making certain that I wasn't fooling myself.

Eventually things reached the point where I stopped asking questions frequently. For a while I would ask questions, and wouldn't receive any answers. Similar to you, I felt frustrated with the lack of response. Eventually I realized that I didn't receive answers because if some cases it was better that I try to figure out the answers for myself. Sometimes effort leads to a more thorough way of learning. There was also the matter of my asking questions when I already knew the answer, I needed to learn to trust myself more. I still need to be better at trusting my intuition.

Going by the messages I have received, each projected self incarnates just once. Reincarnation is a team effort, as described above. Perhaps there are exceptions. I can't say I am one hundred percent certain, but the only once thing makes sense to me.

I would like to add that occasionally unfriendly spirits try to communicate with me, so I have to make a point of figuring out where messages come from, and if they represent the truth.

One other point, I went from having regular OBEs with the effects, to having just lucid dreams and waking dreams as I meditate. Perhaps OBEs with effects aren't necessary when you realize that waking and lucid dreams can mean something. I have found that even regular dreams can mean something.

Title: Re: Re reincarnation
Post by Maisie on Jan 2nd, 2020 at 10:45pm
You experienced being an over soul, omg wow. I have 100 question about that.
Did you feel each identity as separate?
Or did you feel like a single being?
I heard it the essence of each remains, does that sound right to you?
Did you feel wise?
Did you experience being beyond time?

The part with my quote...

You (Maise)  said: "Its my understanding that my other soul parts have not met 'God' and are not much closer to that energy than us when we experience a connected conscious state, they just have it all the time."

Recoverer responds: "The underlined part seems to contradict the earlier part.

What I mean is that sense that we get when we are deeply connected to that pure unconditional love feeling, that's what my soul parts experience all the time, but no god being has welcomed them or introduced itself or set up a staff meeting. lol

Once you become lucid in a dream does the dream change or is it still flowing out of your conscious control? I've only achieved partial consciousness in dreams but I'm not able to control it because I generally wake up or go back unconscious.

I do know of the over soul, I've read all Monroe's books, all Bruce's where he talks about the disc and several other authors, Tom Campbell, William Buhlman, Rosalind McKnight, Frank DeMarco, and Rita Warren. Its my current obsession to know everything I can find out.

I learnt in a few different sessions that when we manage to make contact from here to our soul group  (I there) there is a huge celebration, it guarantees that our soul experience will be kept for future use and our traits used for all near future soul incarnations. It accelerates future incarnations ability to connect by incarnating with knowns instead of having to find their own way entirely.

Did you recognise the voice that suggested you look for inconsistences when awake?

I have seen spirit energy my whole life and heard and felt it but when I first started experiencing altered states for a great deal of my waking hours I felt like I had one foot in each dimension, ie one here on earth and one in the after life. I loved that feeling and wish I could exist like that. But it all just stopped.  :'(
I love that you connected with your soul group through meditation. Do you use any special techniques to meditate and reach that state? How long have you been meditating for, are you well experienced?

You mention about making sure you weren't fooling yourself, I realised that I was taking my experiences as gospel and that perhaps I should be a bit more discerning and challenge their validity. But when I did that I felt like Id put a barrier in place and it was stunting my experience. But as it turned out when I did have an experience with some unfriendly beings I was onto it pretty quickly and felt the difference in energy, so I stopped worrying. 

Eventually things reached the point where I stopped asking questions frequently. For a while I would ask questions, and wouldn't receive any answers. Similar to you, I felt frustrated with the lack of response. Eventually I realized that I didn't receive answers because if some cases it was better that I try to figure out the answers for myself. Sometimes effort leads to a more thorough way of learning. There was also the matter of my asking questions when I already knew the answer, I needed to learn to trust myself more. I still need to be better at trusting my intuition.

Like you I'm not certain on the one time at incarnating. My "witch" incarnation has a sense of familiarity about it but not any of my others. I have a real calling to go to India but so far it hasn't come up in my past lives. If it was shown that parts of our essence returns then that would make sense to me. 

That's interesting that you graduated from OBE's to lucid dreams. Perhaps we don't need such hands on guidance long term as what we receive in the beginning. I often have stand out dreams and occasionally a lucid one but I'm yet to initiate conscious lucidity. Perhaps that my next challenge. I'm sad though that perhaps I wont ever connect again like I was for the second half of last year. But I'm thrilled that I did.

Title: Re: Re reincarnation
Post by Maisie on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 12:30am
The link to the quote, I found it...

Title: Re: Re reincarnation
Post by Recoverer 2 on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 12:52pm

You said a lot on your last post, so I'll respond to just a few things.

Regarding lucid dreams, sometimes I'll become conscious during a dream, try to figure out what to do, and I end up just waking up. In such dreams my higher self/guidance purposely sets up a situation that I question.

On some occasions I'll become lucid during a dream, might take a moment to notice how real everything seems, remember my life in the world completely, and then try to go to where my Soul group is, and then end up experiencing things that symbolize what prevents me from being connected to my Soul group in a more complete way. Quite often during such lucid dreams I sense the presence of guidance.

By Oversoul I mean the same thing that Bruce Moen means by Disk, Robert Monroe by I-there--I forgot what Tom Campbell's term is, I'm not real familiar with Tom.

I use Oversoul rather than higher self, because when some people say higher self, they don't mean in a Disk way.

Regarding experiencing my Oversoul, I don't remember a lot of specific details. The main thing I understood is that when your consciousness is expanded, it isn't difficult to be aware of a lot of information at once. I also understood that I was still basically me, minus the body-based stuff.  There was the sense of abiding in an expanse of space. It felt really cool to exist in such a way.

Title: Re: Re reincarnation
Post by Recoverer 2 on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 1:46pm
An update to my last post. I did't recognize the voice that said to look for inconsistencies.

I've had a couple of experiences where I saw my Disk members connected to each other, and it seemed as if they were connected and distinct at the same time.

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