I have a friend, mid-forties, father of three, who has been battling cancer for about three years. It has spread now to his lungs and liver, and it is clear that he will not live. He has accepted this and stopped all but paliative care. My sense is that he is not "ready to go" yet, but now realizes that he is going to have to. I don't know what his spiritual "position" is, but have the strong urge to reassure him about the survival of the soul, and the rich eternal life that he will be returning to. On the other hand, I know how people feel when they are preached to or proselitized, And it must be even worse when they approach you while you are in such a vulnerable position. Thoughts?

What do you want for your friend?  Most explanation shows that people who have difficulty or get "stuck" had stubborn belief systems, or were closed minded.

So at the very least, you want to encourage him to be open to it, to ask for help if he needs help, and look for it.  You can present him what you know as your own understanding of things, but of course in an honest way which preserves the true uncertainty of it all. 

Love is all we take with us (however much or little we express), and the degree of love we are open to seems to determine much of our experience.  Fear of course, must be overcome, but is trumped by love. 

If he is only open to certain knowledge, I would simply give him the notion that he should be open minded about an afterlife, and ask for help if needed.


Matthew

You're right, it might be a very vulnerable situation. Blabbing on about spiritual matters is natural here, because the forum's designed for it.

"No, no, I know what's best for your colossal feet: size 4, fits everybody. Let's leave it at that and get on with it. Up next, my dearest android, let's curve fit those big lumps into these comfortable shoes. I love you!"

When I've been uncertain about telling someone something, I get a feel for them during a conversation with them, and have the intent of getting to know if they're up for it or not lingering in the back of the mind. A simple question at some point, maybe one that's barely scratching the surface of the topic can be enough to break the ice and so know how to proceed.

Size 10,5. Size 3. Size 9. The above is merely my way of doing it. 

Doc,
Yes, I do think I need to say something. At least to introduce the possibility of a different outcome to him. I want him to die with some semblance of peace, although to be sure it is his death and he should go as he sees right. Volu, I like your approach. Maybe just a crack in the door and see how he reacts first. He is clearly unhinged at the moment, and unsolicited advice could have the opposite of the intended result, unless I go slow and carefully. But I think it worth the risk, don't you?

I  think you should say something because it's what's in your heart with good intentions.  Even if you don't get the reaction you would like to have, your intentions remain the same, good ones.  Maybe it's part of the reason why he is your friend, and maybe this sitiuation is an opportunity for both of you.  You to open up and have the courage to do what's in your heart, and him to have a good friend help him see another perspective.  I see difficult situations as opportunities, and it's up to us how we decide to take it. 

Hello Bardo,

For your consideration:

You might share some of your thoughts and beliefs with your friend if he brings up the subject and to the extent that he is interested, but your friend does not need converting to any particular belief before he dies.

Your friend is still in this world; not in the next world yet, and when he does transition to the spirit world he will be properly tended to.

And you too are in this world; not in the next world yet. Our work to do is here and now, in and for this world.

Your dying friend will now be refocusing his attention, pruning back his values and priorities to those he sees as most important now. If he is struggling with this process then help him gain some clarity, as you can, while remembering his priorities are his, not yours.   

You might help your friend with what needs doing now; perhaps with practical assistance for his family, wife and children, perhaps attending to jobs that need doing round the house, providing transport if required, doing shopping, minding children, providing financial assistance if required. Life's essential tasks still need attending to, and dying can be a long and trying time for all concerned. Practical assistance will almost certainly be needed and appreciated by your friend and his family.

And spiritual assistance may be needed too; practical here and now spirituality. Grief is present with friends and family as the death of a loved one approaches and will be present afterwards as well, but can be minimised. Grief is exacerbated by regrets, by shame, by resentments, by things left unfinished between persons, by wishful thinking that we had said this or that when there was the chance to say it, and hearts left unsatisfied.

But where interpersonal difficulties are resolved, where all has been said and done as right or best as it can be, then grief is minimal.

To minimise grief and maximise restitution and completion, you can encourage your friend and his family to say what needs saying to one another while there is still time to say it - in their own way of course - to say their thank-yous, their I love yous, their apologies, to voice their forgiveness to each other, so as to leave no unhealed hurts in their hearts. A family member's dying can then be healing for all the souls concerned.      

As Volu suggests, take a customised approach. Ask simple questions here and there, inquire, make offers. An intuitive perceptive and honest approach will guide you well. Be present, available, and willing to help, and you will notice what needs doing. 

Hi Bardo,

I don't know if you want to hear from a newbie on this, but I thought I'd respond anyway and let you decide.

I come from a very toxic family and, as a result, was faced with the decision of caring for my dying grandmother alone. My family basically just ignored her and left her to die alone in her home. I was a full-time student and full-time employee (I was trying to support myself after being thrown out for no reason). I drove an hour each way to check on her several times per week and called her several times per day. It was becoming too much for me, physically and I asked her to move into my small apartment so I could look after her without constantly worrying. She was reluctant at first, but finally agreed to allow me to move her to my place.

One day, my grandmother sat me down and explained to me exactly what she wanted for her funeral and disposition of her material possessions. She was not rich by any means, but everyone has belongings that need to be managed. I began to cry and told her that I would find a doctor to help her and she would be okay. She reached across and laid her hand on top of mine and said "Dear, please don't cry. Grandma is going to die soon and I now know you are strong enough to handle this." (She had never made it a secret that my sister was her favorite grandchild). I dried my tears and listened to my grandmother's wishes...all of them. From that moment forward, my purpose was to honor her wishes, even those I didn't agree with (she chose not to have chemo or radiation or surgery). I asked God to give me the strength to be loving, compassionate and RESPECTFUL of the choices she made for her life and to help me help her end her journey how she chose. And, that is what I did. It was not easy. There were times that I locked myself in the bathroom and just sobbed with the shower running. My so called friends all but abandoned me because they said it wasn't my responsibility to care for her since my father was her next of kin. The problem was my father was not interested in being there and I had already been yelled at my countless oncology doctors who berated me for not "making him come to the meetings." For me, the issue was not who "should" be there, but that I could not, in my own heart, ignore her needs just because that was the easiest option. I didn't care that she didn't love me as much as she loved my sister. I didn't care that she let my father into her house one day because she was angry with me and stood by silently while he beat me into unconsciousness (I awoke in a pool of my own blood and crawled to the front door, collapsing on her porch where her neighbor found me and rushed me to the hospital). None of that mattered. ALL that mattered was my grandmother was dying and I could not watch her suffer and die alone. I am just not built that way.

The point I'm making is that as much as we want to share our viewpoint with others, let them know our truths, convince them to consider our side, the bottom line is everyone deserves the right to make the choices they deem right for their own lives. That doesn't mean we stop loving them or caring about them. The greatest gift we give one another is pure, uncomplicated, love. It doesn't come with strings. It doesn't come with restrictions. It doesn't come based on who they are or how they act. It's solely a gift from within that we freely and willingly give to another.

In your situation, I would probably buy my friend a book on the afterlife or one of those books about end of life decisions. That way, he will have the choice to complete it and talk about his decisions, if he chooses. I would also mention my own spiritual beliefs that the soul never dies. Depending on his sense of humor, you might even mention that Harry Houdini said he would leave a message for his wife after he passed and see how he reacts to that. The point is you don't want to make him feel uncomfortable or "put upon" during this time. Your presence in his life is a gift you both have been given and although this "season" will soon part, it is never broken.

My heartfelt sorrow for your friend, his family and you. As you know, we never die. All the moments, all the memories, all the joy live on in every person whose lives we've touched. And, we all meet in heaven (eventually) where love never ends.

Kind regards,
mj

Hi Bardo,

I've been up for about an hour and I finally recalled the name of the book I was thinking about last night.

The title is "A Father's Legacy: Your Life Story in Your Own Words" by Terri Gibbs. It is basically a hardcover workbook. Maybe this or something similar would help him think about what he most wants to impart to his beautiful children.

I wish you peace and comfort as you walk this journey with your friend.

Kind regards,
mj

Thank you all for your very different ideas on this subject. They are all obviously well considered and true to your views on life and death. I have been involved with this family for some time, as a friend helping out with the things that I can do in order to make things a bit easier for them. My family and I have done projects for them along the way, and of course we have been friends for some time, long before he got sick. So from that perspective, I think I have the "right" to discuss life, death and the afterlife with him. But you are all absolutely right in your assertion that the path one follows is his or hers alone, except to the extent one decides to let others in. I expect to be spending more time with him in the coming months, as I have undertaken a renovation of the family room in their home, to make things a bit more comfortable for everyone. I think I will just spend the time I have with him and trust my instincts as far as the afterlife is concerned. His needs and desires will guide my actions. Vicky, I wonder if you are right that this is my path as well as his....of course its tempting to think that I was meant to be here at this time. But that smacks of ego-centric giving, which I abhor. 

I think there will be giving and receiving in both directions.   

crossbow wrote on Jan 18^th, 2012 at 10:36am:

I think there will be giving and receiving in both directions.

What Crossbow said here is exactly what I'm talking about.  We are not always aware of what we receive or what we can receive when we give from the heart, i.e. give with good intentions rather than giving with certain expectations in mind. 

There's no reason to interpret an opportunity or things you may have arranged spiritually before coming into this life as ego-centric.  But if it makes you feel abhor, then just follow your heart, like I said.  So if it feels wrong to say anything, then don't.  If it feels right, then do.  That's all I'm saying.  I think what you feel as "abhor" has more to do with your fear of how your friend will react, which isn't what I'm talking about. 

  I'm probably just repeating what others have already said, but if it were me in the situation, I would just let myself be led by my intuitive feelings within the moments of interaction. 

  A little preparation couldn't hurt either though.  If you know you are going to be hanging out with your friend, you could do some meditation shortly before you meet up to help clear self, and then a quick prayer before you open your mouth. 

  It may be that you are guided to say something in particular, and it may be that you are guided to not really say much of anything, but to just share your vibes and field with your friend. 

  In any case, I have a lot of faith in you and even more in the Guidance you will connect with when the time is right. 

Thank you all for your guidance. I will keep you posted as things go along. Any thoughts or suggestions are always welcome, whether from our newer friends or the more long standing members of this community. I would like to say that I value all of you greatly!

I wanted to start by saying.....
This is a terrible situation.... it sucks.

I would simply say nothing to him, why bother since what ever you said will only matter while the person is still alive? Ultimately, what you say has little effect on they're afterlife.

There are only two scenarios here, neither which are effected by the state prior to death:

1. They die and experience that they had nothing to worry about, the afterlife exists. ---- Phew!

2. They die and cease to exist. Memories, thoughts, existence, gone. The children live on, but you are just fooling yourself. Existence in the memory of another person is insufficient... (Unless you can over-write they're mind with your own using sophisticated Commodore 64 technology!)

Well, here is an update. I spent the entire weekend working on their house with the whole family helping out. My friend was well enough to drive to the lumber yard with me and select the paneling and other materials that he wanted, so we had a couple of hours together, which I sensed that he wanted, because he would not allow any of his kids to come with us.  And as we were driving the half hour to our closest home center, he got talking. And as he talked he got into some detail about the process of dying, and about his kids and how it was hardest for them.  So at some point, I knew that the time was right. And I said something to the effect of.."Look, I will only say this once and then I will shut up, but..." and I simply stated my understanding that the soul survives physical death etc etc. Then he told me that he had had some experiences that could not be explained when he was younger, and after a few minutes of clarification we left it at that. I won't mention it again unless he wants to talk, but I don't regret having said it.

Of course there is nothing to regret.
It sounds like a pretty typical conversation in your situation. An acceptance of death in my opinion implies at the very least a hope that the afterlife exists!

Often, I myself do not even have hope!

Mine however will be just fantastic. I will be running around in a frenzy of doctors and experimental procedures. It will literally be pure insanity. Screaming in insane pain... pleading for more machines, more experimental human modification testing.

Let's do this!

Death is not necessary for humans! We are MANKIND! Thinkers, Creators. Made in the image of God and we will use our Godlike powers to KILL DEATH ITSELF!

(And if that fails we can always resort to the Deathly Hallows... I'll take the cloak of invisibility to hide from death any day!)

Bardo,

You did what I would have done.  You opened the door. He was not dismissive of you.  You made him consider the possibilities.  In instances like this, one wonders if you can over-extend your welcome. 

For instance, I think it is important, to try to let the person know, that nothing is imposed on them; that hell or heaven is a state of mind, not an external judgement; that if one is sincere one can always ask for help - with an open heart.

But in truth, I couldn't say all this to one who did not belive, unless they were a very close friend, who knew of my otherwise rational human life.

Focus27,

You speak of conquering death in the physcial body.  Yet what if our existence as pure consciousness is infinitely brighter and happier?  The longer you force yourself to remain encased in human flesh, may not be the better.  We just don't know while here on earth.  I am all for slowing down the aging process and conquering disease.  Much suffering may be averted that way.  Yet would I want to roam the earth for several thousand years?  I don't think so.  But to each his own.

M

I'll take it! I will roam the Earth for eternity. having the experiences here alone. Be them mental or psychical in essence. I take it.

I will accept forever life willingly, proudly, happily, with great gusto and enthusiasm. I will accept great pain and sacrifice to make this deal. GREAT PAIN AND SACRIFICE.

Where is the devil when I need him?


(...... I hear he has the best deals!) Oh wait... the Devil does not exist and deals of this sort are purely imagination... much the same... I fear... as the concept of mind and body being separate!)

I mean seriously, The devil, Satan, the fallen angel that has killed less people directly than Jehovah God himself. I am to buy any of this? Why give my worship to a God that kills because he decided even the little children and babies, although not corrupted yet, will be corrupted by the parents?

Is that fair?

God sucks.

I am better than God. No, I am not the Alpha and the Omega.

The beginning and the end.

But I D-.'-A.-'M-.'N. well know when to keep myself under control and give people a chance.

Bardo wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 7:20am:

Well, here is an update. I spent the entire weekend working on their house with the whole family helping out. My friend was well enough to drive to the lumber yard with me and select the paneling and other materials that he wanted, so we had a couple of hours together, which I sensed that he wanted, because he would not allow any of his kids to come with us.  And as we were driving the half hour to our closest home center, he got talking. And as he talked he got into some detail about the process of dying, and about his kids and how it was hardest for them.  So at some point, I knew that the time was right. And I said something to the effect of.."Look, I will only say this once and then I will shut up, but..." and I simply stated my understanding that the soul survives physical death etc etc. Then he told me that he had had some experiences that could not be explained when he was younger, and after a few minutes of clarification we left it at that. I won't mention it again unless he wants to talk, but I don't regret having said it.

Hi Bardo,

I was thinking about you and your friend this past weekend and wondering how things were going. I'm glad you were able to spend time working on the project and talking. It sounds like you opened the doorway for him and he may just share more later. Right now, I'm sure he has quite a bit on his mind, but you've planted the seed that you're not afraid of the topic. Yeah for you! He is so fortunate to have a friend like you.

Kind regards,
mj

This friend of mine died yesterday. I had gone to see him on Sunday, and sat with him for a while. He was on morphine by this time, and Oxycontin as well, so he was not real lucid. But he recognized me and we chatted a bit. His daughter was in the room, so I did not mention what was in my mind, which was to remind him of our conversation in the truck, where we talked of the afterlife. I just told him that everything was going to be all right for his family, and I left it at that. Now I regret that I did not reinforce our earlier discussion. I hope he had a smooth transition, I have not had any sense of him yet. I have asked guidance to tell me how he is doing, but so far I have nothing.

  So what exactly was holding you back Bardo?

Justin,
He has a  young daughter who was in the room, and I was not sure what effect the discussion would have had on her. Anyway, that is water under the bridge. Now I would like to try to contact him to ensure that he is doing okay.

  I see, though i still do not fully understand even yet (kids understand these things better than do most adults).  I hope you two can get in communication at some point, if it is spiritually helpful for you, him, and the Whole to do so. 

I'm not saying it was the right decision, only that it is the one that I took, so I have to live with it.

   I don't know if it was right or wrong, that really wasn't my point or question.  I was more trying to subtly point to your unconscious.   

   I think your friend will be more or less fine.