I recommend taking a look at the channeling of Paul Selig.  He channels a group of entities who I believe claim to be in Christ Consciousness.  Check out his interview with Lilou first for a bit of an introduction in the link I provided below.  I am interested to hear your opinions.  I am probably going to attend one of his events in the near future, as they are usually relatively close to home. 

http://www.paulselig.com/videos/

Hello OutOfBodyDude,
That was interesting.
These channellers/psychics/clairvoyants/clairaudients/etc are all over the place. I used to have a tendency to ignore or dismiss such people, I'm not sure why, I think I might have had a concern they might distract me or something. But I had a good watch of a couple of this fellow's videos. I don't know if he is for real or not, but what I heard him say seems reasonable - all being frequency, including love, goal being self knowledge, and so on. He is a bit repetitive - but that is understandable. In the interview he says his greatest problem with what he does is that it comes through him and he is a flawed character. I can relate to that. But who can know if he's true? If he is true then I would like to know how he lives with himself being able to do that while being a flawed character. I suppose like everything, acceptance is the first step. If you go to one of his presentations and you get the opportunity then do ask him and tell us his answer.   

I'm at work so I can't listen to his videos now. I checked out his site and read some of the words he said comes from the channeling. One thing I noticed is that it suggested that people do affirmations in the form of "I am the word." Now affirmations might help out when it comes to doing something like having an OBE, but I don't believe they will work when trying to grow spiritually.

I don't mean that we can't think positive, but thinking positive and affirming our way to Christ consciousness is quite a different thing.

One way in which people try to brainwash people is by getting them to repeat phrases such as, perhaps, "I am the word." If you can get people to re-read basically the same thing over and over again, and get them to repeat affirmations, they might end up brainwashing themselves to believe that they are what they assert, even though they don't actually abide at such a consciousness level.

If Jesus was here today I do not believe he would have people repeat affirmations such as "I am the word."

I'm not certain, but I believe I ran into Paul Selig on another forum a while back. At the time he was saying that his channelings are on the same wavelength as ACIM. Feeling as I do about ACIM, I questioned what he is about, and he spoke towards me in abrassive way.

When I look at his photo, I can't say I get a good feeling.

I think people need to be very careful. There are unfriendly beings that don't want this World to progress, and they'll do what they have to in order to mislead people. They are smart enough to realize that if they say enough nice sounding things, they will be able to lure people in. And they'll do so with an approach that can have a negative effect such as brainwashing people.

Some people might say that I'm saying what I say because I am influenced by fear. This isn't true at all.  One doesn't need to be afraid in order to use one's discrimination. In fact, I believe it is safe to say that some people don't acknowledge how often unfriendly beings deceive people because they are afraid to become aware of how much they do so.

I can understand people becoming excited about a possible valuable source of information, but since we aren't dependent on outward sources in order to grow spiritually, we don't need to become attached to them.

I read some more, and some of the things that are said in the channelings sound very cultish. The words serve the purpose of getting people to believe they are a part of something, and they provide the details of how people should proceed. People who are looking for a way to feel good about themselves or a place to belong might be taken in by the approach the channelings present.

I find it hard to believe that actual beings of love and light would lay out one approach for numerous people to follow. Each of us needs to find our own way.

When we repeat phrases that come from a particular source and that are shared by others, this factor, along with our intent, might connect us to an energy level that we don't want to be connected with. Anyway, not if we knew what that energy level is actually about.

To me, the point of affirmations, when done correctly, is to consciously reprogram the subconscious mind.  To say that one cannot grow spiritually through the reprogramming of one's subconscious mind when this aspect of self is misaligned with the higher vibrations of the greatest good shows a misunderstanding of the subconscious mind and its relation with the conscious self, as the subconscious largely influences one's conscious thoughts and behaviors.  It also negates the tremendous growth that has been experienced by countless people, myself included, through this means.  Affirmations and intent are in fact one of the most effective ways to achieve spiritual growth, as they facilitate the thoughts patterns and actions necessary to grow.  When one's subconscious self is aligned with the conscious self, and the conscious self is aligned with the higher self, then there is nothing to hold back the evolution of one's consciousness into the higher vibrations of PUL. 

As for the channelings, the idea is not to become attached to them or to the channeler, but to use the information that is provided as a source of inspiration to activate higher energies into your own being and into your life and the lives of others.  People who have attended his channelings have attested to the tremendous transformative higher energy they have felt during and after the experience.  I am friends with him on facebook, and from the things people write to him, it is clear that he is doing humanity a service. 

Warning:  Do not let recoverer's bias influence you to perceive the information provided from Paul in a negative light!!  He hasn't even watched his channelings!  I have watched many of them, and can attest that the information provided was of benefit to me, and very well may be to you too.  If you feel you may be receptive to misleading energies, then state the affirmation and set the intention that Paul provides below.

Pauls affirmation for everyone present before his channelings: 
"The light of God surrounds us.  The love of God enfolds us.  The power of God protects us.  The spirit of God watches over us.  Wherever we are god is.  So be it."
He then tells the audience to set the intention to only be open to those energies and information which are for your highest good and the perfect amounts needed for your healing and evolution at this time.

Recoverer, you get a negative feeling when looking at his picture, and I get a positive feeling.  :) 

Dude:

When it comes to the positive energy people experience, the same used to happen with the guru I used to see. Yet, almost all of the people who used to see that guru have left him and now understand that he is a fraud.

You might check out this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Enlightenment-Blues-Years-American-Guru/dp/0972635718

Andre Van Der Braak also experienced bliss while with his guru Andrew Cohen and so did Andrew Cohen's other followers. Eventually he found out how insidious Andrew is.

The two examples I provided are just two of many examples. Below are several reasons why a person might experience positive energy while associated with a fraudulent source:

1. His own expectation of having a positive experience causes him to open up to having one.

2. The other people who attend a meeting tune into a good place and he feels their vibration.

3. People direct devotional feelings towards a guru or channeled being (or a person who pretends to channel a being) and this devotional energy accumulates around a guru or channeler. This accumulation of energy is felt.

4. The guru, channeled being, or fake channeler is a person or being who gets off on being treated in an adoring way, and this causes this being or person to experience more happiness than usual when he is treated in such a way. Please don't underestimate how many guru types have gotten off by being treated in an adoring and worshipful way.

5. Energy can exist in different ways and it is possible that a deceptive being, either through a guru or a channeler, sends energy to people that feels ecstatic, but it isn't actually love. If a person experiences love for a reason such as feeling devotion towards a guru, and mixes this feeling with the ecstatic energy that is channeled, he might become confused.

6. Some sources say that there are unfriendly beings that are able to activate the parts of our brains that cause chemicals to be released that cause us to experience bliss. I've experienced bliss that felt quite good, but it wasn't love.

Regarding affirmations, regardless of the fact of how some people might've used them in a positive way, the fact of the matter is that many people have used affirmation-based practices to brainwash others. When you can get a person involved in a dogmatic practice where he repeats phrases such as "I am word," you can gain some control of his mind.

My feeling is that if a teacher places too much emphasis on affirmations, either he does so because he is confused about their merit, or he is using them to control others. I would say that there is a fine line between affirmations and thinking positive, but perhaps the line isn't fine.

Going by what I read, Paul's got things set up so a definite path is in place.  People are referred to as emissaries of "I am word."

I'm in contact with beings that I believe represent the light. They have encouraged me to share what I've learned. But not in a way where I get people to follow some dogmatic path. How many times does a soul need to get involved with institutionalized spirituality before it decides to find its own way?

Stating phrases which declare one's truth can hardly be labeled a "dogmatic practice!"  There is no strong emphasis on affirmations in his teachings, but rather an emphasis on aligning oneself to one's true state of grace and getting out of hindering mental tendencies.  But, one would have to be familiar with the material presented to know this, and you are not, so it seems you are speaking based on assumptions and bias!  The only definite steps that one needs to follow in order to attain the state of grace that is talked about is aligning to one's true state of divinity.  Please inform yourself before asserting your opinions, as it seems you are the one who is trying to brainwash others. 

Perhaps you should join the forum, AfterlifeSourceCondemnation.com!  :D  I will continue to guide my fellow explorers towards the light, and you may attempt to interfere with this in any way you wish, but in the end, the light will prevail.  :)

Dude:

I have to admit that I've read a limited amount of Paul's material. But after a while, if a person allows himself to, he can develop the radar which enables him to quickly get an idea of what a source is about. Certain things become dead give aways.

I believe it would be out of character for beings of love and light to have people take part in affirmations such as the below. I suppose each of needs to decide what will work for us.

“I am Word through my body. Word I am Word.

I am Word through my vibration. Word I am Word.

I am Word through my knowing of myself as Word.

I Am Word through all that I see before me, and I am knowing myself in love.

I am Word though this intention. Word I am Word.”

P.S. There are misleading beings who are clever enough to find a way to help people just enough so they believe they are involved with something worthwhile. The same is true with the guru I used to be involved with. The key is, what are the total results of being involved with a source?

I bet you there are fundamentalist Christians who can tell you how their form of Christianity changed their lives for the better. But what are the total results?

Without the knowledge of what is meant by the term "Word," you will obviously be leading yourself astray.  Gain this knowledge by informing yourself through the material.  Do not lead others astray! 

My initial reaction was similar, until I discovered what was meant by I am Word.  The affirmation then took on a whole new significance of resonance and truth. 

Dude:

Any source of information can use words such as God, oneness, love and word.

You might ask yourself why the word "word" is being used in the way it is used by Paul, rather than language that has already been used. Sometimes new terminology is a sign that a source is trying to get people caught up in its way of thinking.

The guru I used to see used words such as love frequently, but love wasn't the motive for his being a guru.

Regarding how much of Paul's channeled material I read, how much of a book written by a fundamentalist Christian would you have to read before you know what that person is about?  Either you can see the signs or you can't.

A very good debate. Good points put forward from both sides. This is helpful to others because when people read your debate it helps them to weigh things up for themselves and do their own thinking.

Frank DeMarco does not channel, but he does converse with entities in the nonphysical.  Those conversations have been posted on his blog, I Of My Own Knowledge, and in books including "Chasing Smallwood", "The Sphere and the Hologram" and "The Cosmic Internet".  If you want to learn how it all works without any proselytizing, brainwashing or other questionable tactics, I encourage you to read Frank.

In my opinion both of You are right.
recoverer is just a very cautious because he knows that up there are "good and bad" and no one can be sure what kind of the source the channelig comes  from.
No one.
Even the channeler.

But We are in our consciousness and that should be the filter.  Each of us in his consciousness
When somebody needs to learn from some channelings it may be a threat to him.
So learning should be supported by practice, the experience.
In the experience, the highest wisdom lies.

OutOfBodyDude writes that he knows Paul and his consciousness is in line to Paul so now only remains subject to the word Paul experience.


For me, Paul is reliable because I see in him a beautiful pink heart chakra and the double golden aureole around his head.
Beings with whom he connects are in positive, beatiful color.
And he has got a funny doggie, hehe.
;)

Olinerum:

Regarding what you perceive, we perceive differently.


olinerum wrote on Nov 12^th, 2011 at 12:17pm:

In my opinion both of You are right. recoverer is just a very cautious because he knows that up there are "good and bad" and no one can be sure what kind of the source the channelig comes  from. No one. Even the channeler. But We are in our consciousness and that should be the filter.  Each of us in his consciousness When somebody needs to learn from some channelings it may be a threat to him. So learning should be supported by practice, the experience. In the experience, the highest wisdom lies. OutOfBodyDude writes that he knows Paul and his consciousness is in line to Paul so now only remains subject to the word Paul experience. For me, Paul is reliable because I see in him a beautiful pink heart chakra and the double golden aureole around his head. Beings with whom he connects are in positive, beatiful color. And he has got a funny doggie, hehe. ;)

Crossbow:

Thank you for saying the below. Yes, it is up to each person to decide for his or herself.



crossbow wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 10:21pm:

A very good debate. Good points put forward from both sides. This is helpful to others because when people read your debate it helps them to weigh things up for themselves and do their own thinking.

I need to clarify something. I don't mean to imply that Paul is a bad guy. Perhaps he is a nice man. But sometimes nice people get duped by the beings they channel.


recoverer wrote on Nov 12^th, 2011 at 1:21pm:

Olinerum: Regarding what you perceive, we perceive differently. olinerum wrote on Nov 12th, 2011 at 12:17pm: In my opinion both of You are right. recoverer is just a very cautious because he knows that up there are "good and bad" and no one can be sure what kind of the source the channelig comes  from. No one. Even the channeler. But We are in our consciousness and that should be the filter.  Each of us in his consciousness When somebody needs to learn from some channelings it may be a threat to him. So learning should be supported by practice, the experience. In the experience, the highest wisdom lies. OutOfBodyDude writes that he knows Paul and his consciousness is in line to Paul so now only remains subject to the word Paul experience. For me, Paul is reliable because I see in him a beautiful pink heart chakra and the double golden aureole around his head. Beings with whom he connects are in positive, beatiful color. And he has got a funny doggie, hehe. ;)

I watched a couple of videos and read some more of the transcripts of Paul’s channeling sessions.

One thing that became clear to me is that the beings Paul channels have a course of instruction in place and they speak as if a person who gets involved with the teachings is working with the beings it comes from.

If a person gets involved to the extent Paul and the beings he channels make available, then this person is making the decision to do the following:

1. To believe that what the beings say is true. Or in other words, a person decides to believe according to what the beings say.

2. To commit to the teaching methods provided. The beings present their material as if it needs to be adhered to completely in order to be beneficial. Therefore, if a person decides to commit, he allows the path defined by the beings to become a significant part of who he is.

3. To decide to trust the beings Paul channels and to open himself to their influence. The transcripts include words stating that the beings will be available to a person who opens up to them. My feeling is that it is a mistake to try to make a connection to a higher level of being by using an intermediary such as Paul or another channel. It is much better if one tries to make a connection to divinity through one’s own resources such as one’s higher self. I do not believe that a person who truly has something to offer would present himself as if he is an intermediary to that which is divine. If a misleading being wants to fool people into making a connection with itself, it is likely to say whatever people want to hear in order to get them to say “yes.” Therefore, it is hard to go by what they say. You have to go by what they do, and getting people involved with them in the way that is available through Paul, is highly questionable. When a connection is made such a connection is the real issue, not the words that are shared. Plus if the beings have people do things such as get involved with a robotic practice such as affirming "I am the word" every time they want to gain transcendence over something, they gain more control over people than people are usually willing to admit.

When it comes to the doublespeak thing Paul does as he channels, does the first voice to speak sound demonic because that’s just how vocal chords work when a spirit being uses a person’s vocal chords, or does the sound created in some way reflect their nature?

The points Recoverer makes are why I replied as I did to Focus27's thread about hearing his name spoken in his head when falling asleep. (first reply/second post) Our own reason and judgment is what we answer for. Paul Selig and other channelers may be true and right but still we each answer for ourselves so we must always think, judge and decide for ourselves. Listen to them if we choose to, but always maintain our own judgment and our own leadership of our self. When it comes to accounting for ourselves, no spirit guide or channeller will step up and take responsibility for us. We all account for ourselves - not always in the symbolic way it has been depicted to help people grasp the idea - but we do account, to and for and of our self, and before God, to the extent that we and God can come together.

Even a divine message that is good, true and right, and whether it comes through a channeller or through or to our self, must by necessity come down through the individual's own soul and personality as that soul and personality is currently developed with all its limitations and idiosyncrasies. This in itself must effect and limit the message. 

And a few related thoughts and observations I thought to share:

Emotions can make awful decisions. And usually feel right when they are making them. Our prisons are full of people who have followed their emotions. "If it feels right it probably is", is not a reliable guideline for decision making.    

Even virtues (under human freewilled management) get it wrong. Misguided virtues make the worst of human errors. Something can feel right but be so very wrong. Even love can error, in fact when virtues error, they cause more harm than evil can. Think of adulterous affairs of the heart where mismanaged love that seems so good and right causes sufferings for families and ruins the higher plans of people's lives. Think of the love that some historical dictators have had for their country, people and race, a love that in itself is pure and good but in its being confined to its own people has turned to war against neighbouring people and soon brought suffering back to the people it loved so much. Even love can feel right and do wrong.   

So who and what can we trust? Love? Virtues? Channellers? Anyone? Our self?

All humans, all freewill, all material structure, is fallible. The only reliability is God.

Only wisdom gets things right - love and intelligence combined - and which by definition is right decision. And wisdom is a tenuous thing. Precarious too. Delicate. Must be always watch. It is not ours, but we might share it with God, to the extent we are able.

It is possible to speculate about the motives and authenticity of any source, but what is most important is how the source impacts people's lives.  As they say, the proof is in the pudding.  Besides the inspiration The Word have given me, we can see for ourselves a taste of it's impact on others:

http://www.paulselig.com/testimonials/

http://www.amazon.com/Am-Word-Guide-Consciousness-Transitioning/dp/1585427934

I would think that an individual with such a strong connection to higher energies as to have the incredible spiritual gifts he has would be better able to determine the nature of the beings he interacts with than, say, a guy on an afterlife forum with a negative focus.  Just sayin.  :D

Hi OutOfBodyDude. Thats a good point about noting the beneficial impact of the source on people's lives. (I assume by impact you mean influence) Clearly the worth of a soul, of a life, of a message, of a teaching, is the extent of the beneficial influence it has upon the lives of others.

By the way, did you know that Jesus taught the Word? The Gospels contain many teachings on it, for those who can read, or who "have ears" as JC would say.   

Dude,

"I would think that an individual with such a strong connection to higher energies as to have the incredible spiritual gifts he has would be better able to determine the nature of the beings he interacts with than, say, a guy on an afterlife forum with a negative focus. Just sayin."

Guru/Master vs. infidel - reducing the dissenter to become 'some guy with a negative focus' speaks of the impact on you. Just sayin. As for your Master, the biblical picture upon entering the site was a major turn off, to me, another random guy on a forum replying to some guy handing out some links to some other someones.

If you disagree with that, you could be the one having a negative focus, and so have the option to read it again when you're ready to take it all in with a smile, sunshine.

From the New Testament:

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Quotes like these may be misunderstood; Jesus may have been speaking of the notion that to become love-realized, in order to enter heaven, then one follows the path of love, which is what he described (so you would have to follow the consciousness that he describes to return to the father - even if you were not a christian).

Yet throughout the centuries, this quote invoked fear, not love, into the hearts of many, for it implied that if you didn't believe in Jesus - didn't behave as the church instructed -  that you would never get to heaven. 

I haven't gone through Paul's web-videos yet, but I have been loathe to follow, in general, channelings of so-called higher beings.  I have seen through most of the well known sources (Seth, Elias), and while interested in the philosophy, I was ultimately not impressed. 

Mostly, because I believe some of the most loving, kind souls I have encountered are present in the physical world, scattered here and there, and I, like Bruce, believe that self-exploration and realization is the key toward personal spiritual progress. 

Anyone's system may be worth exploring, as long as you can integrate the knowledge and approach into your own meditations, without relying only on what the source says is the "right" way to do things.

If my meditations are correct and what I consider to be a gradual deeper understanding of life holds true, then love is the foundation of our being, and gives us all of our abilities.  I should not need a channeled portal to explore this - I may understand it, if I am open to examining my life, tracing the cause and effect path of karma, and experimenting with the change that I desire to follow a path of love. 

That being said, if I find a source which is transformative, I, like OOB Dude would attempt to share it with the group.  I doubt that dude is saying that he is a blind follower of a guru - only that he found a resonance and a utility in the message he heard.


Matthew

Quote:

That being said, if I find a source which is transformative, I, like OOB Dude would attempt to share it with the group.  I doubt that dude is saying that he is a blind follower of a guru - only that he found a resonance and a utility in the message he heard.

This would be correct kind sir.  I simply want to provide people resources which may inspire their own personal transformations.  I'd rather my efforts not be thwarted by misinformation, but I have said what I feel and we'll leave it at that.  I'll just add that I believe pointing people in the right direction may have more benefit than pointing people away from the wrong direction(although it can be helpful at times), especially when this "wrong direction" is in fact a source of positive transformation to many.

I did not mean to downplay Recoverer as an individual, but I wanted to stress his relationship to the source of the channelled material.  Of course, he is a guy, or so I am led to believe, he is on an afterlife forum, and in this case his focus is on perceived negative aspects of the material presented.  Although I did not say "some guy," but throwing the word "some" in there did cleverly give the illusion of better illustrating the point that was trying to be made.

As for Paul being my Master, I could never substitute Volu for another All Knowing Divine Being to worship!   ;D

Dude,

"I did not mean to downplay Recoverer as an individual, but I wanted to stress his relationship to the source of the channelled material.  Of course, he is a guy, or so I am led to believe, he is on an afterlife forum, and in this case his focus is on perceived negative aspects of the material presented.  Although I did not say "some guy," but throwing the word "some" in there did cleverly give the illusion of better illustrating the point that was trying to be made."

Nay, still think some illustrated the point pretty well. Just naying. You know what the captain of said before the ship sunk? Win some, lose some, and steering the boat when it's sunk gets you nowhere rather than somewhere.

"As for Paul being my Master, I could never substitute Volu for another All Knowing Divine Being to worship!"

Dude, where's your sense of You? I don't want your power, but there are as many who wants this as there are churches littered around the globe. So, some needs to have someone to hand their power over to as some kind of meaningful way to learn. Not a someone to be friends with but someone's Saviour, and several preferences have been somewhat mentioned in the thread.

Crossbow is right. Even when we receive messages from a spirit we have to decide for ourselves.

Regarding what Doc said about Seth and Elias, I mention them in this sample chapter from one of my books.

http://nondualityisdualistic.com/a-night-in-heaven/chapter-13/

Volu

I feel I am actually pretty well tapped into my own inner power, and the more I learn to live in divine grace, the more I yearn to help others do the same.  So I teach the ones close to me from the example I leave from my daily life, and do my best to spread resources which may help others to gain the knowledge and inspiration to live Christ-like, such as referring people to sources such as Paul, and making DVDs with meditation hemi sync and other self help programs and gifting them to all who are interested in exploring themselves and reality more deeply but haven't had the knowledge or inspiration to do so.  This is me expressing my power.  And just wait until you see what my power is in the midst of creating for the world!    

If you believe I have handed over my power to Paul or any other source for that matter, then you are mistaken my friend.  I have given his words the power to impact me for the better(which is really just a projection of my own power anyway), while fully retaining my own personal power, which in turn has allowed my power to grow and evolve. 

If you are at a level of consciousness in which you have stopped receiving benefit from anything or anyone that appears to be outside of yourself, then perhaps your purpose here is complete.  Mine is not, however, as I am still learning and growing, so forgive me if I may occasionally use an outside source to gain inspiration and insight!  Of course, it is these outside sources which have allowed me to find my own inner source of power and inspiration, as is generally the case here in this world of illusory separation, so I think you are confusing my ability to benefit from a source with surrendering my power to a source, as my power continues to grow as I soak up all that is beneficial for my spiritual growth.   

"If you are at a level of consciousness in which you have stopped receiving benefit from anything or anyone that appears to be outside of yourself, then perhaps your purpose here is complete.  Mine is not, however, as I am still learning and growing, so forgive me if I may occasionally use an outside source to gain inspiration and insight!"

There's no need to forgive you Dude, and vice versa since I do enjoy being the devil's advocate. Interesting to read you voice your thoughts about the subject.

Yes indeed, there is no need to be forgiven.  :) 

Pat E. wrote on Nov 12^th, 2011 at 1:49am:

Frank DeMarco does not channel, but he does converse with entities in the nonphysical.  Those conversations have been posted on his blog, I Of My Own Knowledge, and in books including "Chasing Smallwood", "The Sphere and the Hologram" and "The Cosmic Internet".  If you want to learn how it all works without any proselytizing, brainwashing or other questionable tactics, I encourage you to read Frank.

  At some point, i would like to check out some of Franks work and info, as i somewhat recently found out i may be meeting him in the nearish future.  Funny enough, the date for this scheduled by the group i'm involved with, happens to be my birthday (no one beside me knew this info).  Maybe that is a synchronicity that i'm supposed to pay attention to?


  Re: channeled info and sources in general, i wish more of them gave info that can be verified in some way beyond their philosophy agreeing or jiving with our own or being something we like or resonate with.  There are a relative few sources out there that did give info that could be verified, but such sources have seemed pretty rare in comparison with the plethora of channeled type sources out there who don't.

  In our own personal explorations and communications, many of us ask for or and seek verifying info, which i believe is a grounded and balanced approach until enough trust and ability has been built up, yet so many of us do not have these standards or measures for outer sources we become interested in.  Why?  Should we not question outer sources just as much, or even more so than our inner sources?