I've always been confused by Monroe's explanation of "establish the vibration waves".  In flipping through my copy, I found it on page 212.  I don't know if it's mentioned elsewhere.  Does anyone else understand his concept of the converging lines, bend the point of intersection 90 degrees, etc.  

I would love to be able to understand his meaning here, and would like to know if this conceptualization has worked for anyone else.  

Hmmm, interesting. I've read the book twice and didn't remember this so looked on page 212 and read the whole description where he explains it better. I've never tried this and don't know anyone who has but I feel I understand what he's talking about. You've been OBE Vicky. Have you ever tried this?

Love, Mairlyn

Heck I don't even know what he's talking about!  My brain hurts when I try to picture all that geometry or whatever it is.  I've had many OBE's, my list is growing longer I'm proud to say.  Have had several different types.  But to induce them the way Monroe explains...I'm lost.  

Hi Vicky, I know what he is saying but didn't understand it either, something to do with getting out of the body by means of imagining the converging lines and doing an offset by 90 degrees to get out...it may have helped him, but I just failed to see the point of the exercise....maybe he was into geometric shapes and it helped him somehow.
It might seem different if I reread it now...but I still say he is using to get out of the body during the vibrations...these usually stop or get so little as to not bother you later from what I understand...I have had them a couple of times and fear took over and I stopped it...thought I was maybe dying. I think. This was early one when a kid...have only had one since an adult and it was in California in 60...I had one and was frozen in place and couldn't move at all. The vibrations got so bad I felt I was into spasms or seizures one. Didn't know what was happening.
So I gave up on knowingly doing OBEs, think I do, just not aware of it...the in and out of it any way.
Heading for the rack...later and Love, Ricardo

Hey,

Whenever i attempt to OBE i always feel a slight vibration (or maybe thats uncoconcious suggestion) but have only felt the vibrations once in my exploration so far that i know for sure. It was a lot more full on than anything i had ever read in my life! there was shaking which at the end turned into a blur, as it was shaken so much. I felt the electicity tingling thing also which feels like when your a kid and you burst with excitment and you tense up and feel like you can't hold it in (if that makes sense), thats what this is like but like your about to burst open! then the hissing came and was so loud i thought i was going to be deaf afterwards! And then gone just like that and i was out. It is weird, from what you read and what i've wrote it seems scary and not that nice, but in a weird way it is, if you just go with it and use all your focus of concentration understanding it? feeling it? instead of fear and it becomes comfatable and you feel at ease and then your out, once you have them vibrations so far i understand they will be over after about 20-30 seconds.

I've just begun my search through the book for the countdown method, i'll let you guys know my results but can't think anywhere else i would have read it as that was the only thing i'm sure i was reading at the time.

And i will have to read through his vibration theory again but what i took away the first time is this. laying down to relax, once relax feel your focus of concentration go out to a imaginary spot in front of you about a foot away. So imagine something was hanging a foot away and just up a bit from your face and you concentrate on it/that area, just like that. then once you have got that focus spot in front, comfatable and its easy to keep with it move it further away to three feet, get comfatable, then 6-9 feet. Build a strong link with this spot, focus on it, forget about your body, imagine your where the spot is. Then the moving of the spot...

as far as i understand (and without re-reading) is imagine you are looking at a person lying down side on. now imagine a spot a foot away from their face going down the body, so should be on the chest area, now move in 6-9 foot up in the air directly in line with the body, this is where i believe that focused energy spot should be at first. should be like a diagonal going from the spot down to the head. then you move the spot to the exact same position but behind the head and this is area where you will find the vibrations and be able to induce them. So the first position 6-9 feet in the air had a diagonal line going from it downwards to the front of the face/chin and also it is position above the chest area. The next spot when moved has a diagonal line going from it to the back of the head. The positions would match exactly if you put a mirror down the middle of the head and matched the spots, it is symetric.

I think thats it, hope that helps but will check because probly wrong with that.

Ryan

Hi people,
tried this method RAM told in his first book about twenty ears ago, and later sometimes and it had quite some effect. There was a kind of electric energizing building up but couldn't separate from the physical body. This thing with the angle-pressure, where you should move the focus point farther away, that's interesting. I reread it today and realized I did it different than described, I moved the focus point "infinitely" far away (angle would be zero then) and bet it then above my head in the body axis.
However, Monroes description isn't well (sorry RAM maybe it's the German translation). For example, if I got it right so far, the angle of 30 degrees would mean the focus point would be only about 0.65 ft (20cm) away from the face (when the distance would be 2m/6.5ft the angle would be about 4 degrees). So, I don't know if I really got what he meant.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/Ichhoechstselbst/MonroeOBEmethod1.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/Ichhoechstselbst/MonroeOBEmethod2.jpg

Spooky

don't have Monroe's books anymore. would like to re-read these descriptions now I might understand better..definetely not a person who understands degrees and angles and geometry but would like to. I believe I read a Mr Peterson's obe instruction book and he said try to imagine yourself in your kitchen each night. soon enough if you concentrate on seeing yourself in your kitchen it produces the actual experience obe.

another thing someone said in a book to go to bed thirsty. then you obe to the kitchen to get a drink. never liked that one, so didn't try it. :-?  have to admit I understand the logic though, as when a little kid I obed to the bathroom because I'd promised myself I would not wet the bed anymore. I never wet the bed after that but in the obe after I woke up still feeling proud of myself, I noticed my body had wet the bed :-/   I was one confused little kid. :-X
I understand the astral is a mirror of the physical, its like a holographic concept with the mirror idea. also once you are out, and you know you are out, you may see astral counterparts of objects from another time zone; or you might see the bedroom furniture occuping the opposite position that you know is not correct. its like being inside of the mirror, like stepping into a mirror. and fear thoughts make you live through those fear thoughts as if it is real. so keep your cool whatever happens. hugs, alysia

I like your drawing Spooky. Are you a draftsman?

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

When you are looking for answers, do you ever cross-reference to another thinker? for ex; Carl Sagan's interest in pi 3.14.... as a building block for earth's realities? So if 30 degrees is not quite right , could you adjust it to 31.4... and come up with something?
Is man not the measure of all things?
Also since pi is in its major reference dealing with a circumference, could the focus of the eyes at that degree be upon the inner shell of the energy field said to encapsulate each person, a >>circumference<< around man? Would focusing on that shell (even unknowingly) activate it, (as does the inner eye focus upon inner parts for heating/activating them for inner healing (as per Caroline Myss?)  
If activating that shell caused a rotation counter to the prevailing energy field, could you then be creating an etheric (or finer) version of centrifugal force that counteracts gravity, (as in a metalsmith's casting machine) and with gravity counteracted, the etheric body lifts and moves away, commandeered by mind. ?
Haha, one picture's worth a thousand words, spooky, so you started this.  Too bad my words have no credentials. I do know a very little about the centrifugal force's use in casting metal; there is a vacuum at some point before the centripedal forces counteract it. I would assume the vacuum part is the non-gravity part that I'm trying to describe as neccessary for the essence of the human to rise. That's pretty much physics. the part about the outer shell of an energy field being the circumfrence found at the the proper focus point, that's pretty much belief.
bets :)

Ok, so the things I said about the shell are hypothetical, but overall it might help someone who is having trouble getting out, even tho they feel the initial vibration. Perhaps if they just experiment with adjusting the length of their focus point just a little bit, nearer, then farther, to find that perfect place when it activates >>something,<< .  Perhaps that's all they need, rather than changing big patterns of behaviour.
bets

Betsons idea of focusing on the energy shell makes me remember a report of a TMI grad, he wrote after he imagined the REBal (Energy Balloon around the body) he saw visuals/movies on the inside of this shell/REBal as if they were projected on it.

Well Betson, you think you could distinguish whether that angle would be 30deg or 31.415926...deg? Nonono, you can't. It's funny, Pi is only Pi in euclidic geometry but not in non-euclidic geometry which we live in if we believe Einstein (though only bent a bit from gravity). Well, I don't know at all if gravity and accelerations are "valid" in the etheric/astral...worlds.

I'm too for experimenting with this focus point things, as well as with the REBal, or Bruces energy gathering technique etc...

Spooky

Greetings,
You're right, I can't, it's just the idea that only slight variations in the eyes might be all that's needed to send you out.
....But if it were   31.4... degrees, wouldn't that also be an extra stamp of approval from the Universe that yes, we are working with the very basic structure of how things are meant to be ?  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  I wouldn't have mentioned it except that your ^ over your = gave me the idea.  
Loved your whole diagram, spooky! I've never seen a clearer explanation of this method.
bets

Great diagram Spooky.

It's been awhile since I've read his book, and I don't own it, so I don't have anything to refer back to. But, maybe these angles/degrees of inflection are somehow based upon the meridian lines that pass through the various chakras within the physical body. I have also felt these "vibrational waves" on multiple occasions during meditation. All of my chakras seem activated when the vibrations start, causing my entire body to vibrate/convulse; become super-heated. I sweat uncontrollably, my heart feels like it's going to pound out of my chest/explode, and generally my eyes roll around under immense pressure. At this point, (if I don't freak out), I usually begin feeling the separation. Like a soft bedsheet flowing underneath my skin. Very soothing, comforting, and rejuvinating.

Also, with regards to gravity and the speed of light... I have read numerous articles convincingly articulating the notion whereby gravity is actually a "push" not a "pull". These notions are mathematically and theoretically sound. If anyone would like to view some of these articles just type into google the following: "Gravity a push not a pull". You should find some interesting debates/discussions there. Also, I had a close relative of mine whom had a NDE and reported the findings that it is possible to actually travel faster than the speed of light squared. Exponentially faster nonetheless. This was communicated to him during his mystical/life altering outage.

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

This is an interesting topic.

I know that Monroe late said that his explanation was simpler than the event itself (Book #2, I think).
I also believe that he mentioned the body was in a north-south alignment during OBEs, which he felt aided in OBE due to the magnetic north.

My personal experience in this area --- LOVE THAT VISUAL ---- is that the movement initially sets up a feeling in the second body, which is then pulled upward and away from the body during the secondary phase of the explanation.

I think vibrations are not always common -- I feel swaying, pulsing and something akin to bathing in champagne bubbles.   ::)

I agree, Dear Eternal,

The swaying / pulsing is how I get out too. Wish I had the champagne bubbles as well---sounds delightful!  :o   (Can't find a smilie for champagne, so think of these eyes as the bubbles.)

Various people here have various ways of exiting and that topic comes around everyonce in awhile. It also turns out that some people exit from the crown, some through the third eye, and some as a full-body lift off. Which method do you use?
It may have to do with which body has your most conscious attention, but then when out, that can change. I sense a long flowing motion for the first part of my trip, but if I'm going far, I turn into a point, that decision being made beyond what my conscious mind can keep up with.

That variety of exiting methods seems to show there are a wide range of potential experiences possible while OB?

Bets

My dearest Bets

The loosening of the nonphysical is the funnest part for me -- like swooshing fine wine in circles before savoring the experience. The champagne bubbles are something altogether new. I was not fond of the "vibrations"  which, for me felt like an extreme case of sugar shock! LOL. As I became more accustomed to them, I realized that I could feel them pretty much anyway I chose and one evening, when they started, I simply pictured them as champagne bubbles floating me up and out.

There are many discussions on the various centers. Sad to say, I don't exit from any particular point that I am aware of. I just sort of step out. Even the vibrations are somewhat foreign to me, though I have experienced it. The buzzing, the pop, the clicking, all in my past, too. It is rather hard to explain, but I simple "do" which is more general than I really want to be. I don't associate any form of "effort" which seems to precipitate force. Once you think of it as a kind of force (getting out, so to speak), then it becomes an "effort" to get out. I simply remind myself that I will step out when I am ready...and thus, step out. I have also learned to project my consciousness to other locations while still bound physically. This is a new one..so I'm uncertain as to its potential. I am fully aware of myself in my body, but also aware of a second state which plays out in real-time (so to speak, as time is a costruct created by man).

As to mobility in nonphysical terms, I can experience myself in the "real time" -- walk around the house, take a "snapshot" and verify. I can shift to more non-linear time, which offers me more "now" moments and can experience the past and present and future. My current exploits in my mobility of consciousness has opened up a new door, with which I am somewhat astounded: auras. I have begun seeing auras -- the pink, and only recently a blue. I am not attempting to develop this yet, but I am also aware of those fields around me. My friend (some call them higher selves,  guides or such) told me that I needed to practice more. I expected to be able to see the auras from a peripheral standpoint or IMP them, as Bruce might say, but I see them in my direct line of vision just like any other object. My friend tells me that this is completely normal for what I am suppose to experience. So be it. The only "side effect" to this seems to be my "seeing" various entities in my home from time to time. They are not threatening, just curious. I'm informed that they are my helpers of various types if I need them. They arrive at odd moments and shimmer in and out of my awareness. I awoke one evening and, seeing an entity standing before my bed, walk through him to get to the restroom. I belief I uttered the words "not now" very politiely. I was so exhausted that I simply could not see myself sitting there trying to have any sort of communication.

There is much more to all this for me, but I don't wish to write dissertations on these experiences, which become very complex to explain, though seem very simple when experienced.  ;D

Just reading this thread from 2006. thanks for the diagram Spooky. lot of good stuff here for the ober person or those interested in what the vibrations are that they may have felt while asleep.

thanks btw Eternal Essence, I might add you are far in advance of my abilities and so I may learn from you I'm certain. I do not see visually auras or guides. I hope you don't find it taxing? u seem able to deal with the changes ok.

anyway I now have 3 of Monroe's books, is there a 4rth? I'm going to get around to looking at them again, although the first, Out of Body Journey's, are his earliest counts and far more interesting are the later books I've found.

I have a sort of theory on the various noises one can hear upon take off of an obe.
Definetely there can be connection with the nonphysical sensory, the inner ear, if you will, to be able to be aware of the rushing of blood, as the finer body separates from the dense vehicle, there are also digestive noises to encounter and these can be excessively loud, to produce hiss, click, I believe they are loud because the bodies are sensitised greatly upon discoincidence.
all of this is conjecture of course. the reason I have begun to think there is a physical connection of the sounds to the physical organism is I noticed these days, our light body, or energy body permeates each physical cell, with a type of spiritual awareness, or what I might say is pure intelligence matter, of which the human is, and especially those within conscious development of becoming aware of these bodies and learning to function within one or more of them, not just the physical dense structure of the body.

I remember how thrilling the vibes felt in my younger day but now I see that was soley my own experience. not everyone is enjoying the vibes, but for me, the pleasantness is what made me want to look further into this obe thing.

nowdays, I seldom encounter them and the obes have been replaced with a mind film showing, like watching TV in a way, only I am in the movie.
occassionally, if I am tired and trying to stay awake I will feel an intense electric jerk, like I just stuck my hand in a light fixture.
I seem to be wanting to exit the body for another vista too quickly at such times, and its much too jarring. this me here now, she does like to mosey on over slowly...ah...

have you ever tried thinking with opposite thought to produce your experience? Bruce writes of this ability we have to create this way, where once out of the body, when he thought large, small was produced, whatever he thought, the opposite appeared.

I think I'd like to go out and try that..or maybe I can try that in C1?

cheers! [smiley=vrolijk_1.gif]