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The Book Club Pages >> Voyage Beyond Doubt >> Different type of book forum question

Message started by betson on Jun 26th, 2006 at 9:02am

Title: Different type of book forum question
Post by betson on Jun 26th, 2006 at 9:02am
This book is Out of Print and rare!
If anyone who has read the book could give us an overview or tell us their favorite part, it would be appreciated very much!
Thank you!

Title: Re: Different type of book forum question
Post by Vicky on Jun 26th, 2006 at 7:09pm
You're kidding, rare?  Anyway, I think it's my favorite.  I love the skunk story best of all.  I love the detail of all the retrievals in this book.  Overall, I learned so much from this book conceptually.  The way the stories were presented I learned not only about the nature of retrievals but also about the nature of people.  

Title: Re: Different type of book forum question
Post by betson on Jun 26th, 2006 at 7:44pm
Hi Vicky,
I guess it's not rare if you have one.  ;)
For those of us who don't tho it's out of print and only 3 are at Amazon at a 300+% mark-up each.  I'm not complaining--it's a mark of great success for the author!

Title: Re: Different type of book forum question
Post by laffingrain on Jun 27th, 2006 at 9:09pm
thats too bad its not printed now. maybe a few more inquiries will get it printed again. this one I like because simply the title explains "beyond all doubt." how many of us can say we are beyond doubt? not very many matter of fact most people come here to get beyond doubt too. unfortunately, I sold my copies through Amazon after reading them twice. but I have the new 5th one in storage.

Vickie tell me about the skunk, I forgot. as I recall Bruce went beyond doubt as he started doing Partnered explorations (PE) and this is how I began getting beyond doubt also with the PE's. I found a good partner and this is so important. my take on PE is to establish a rapport with your partner before attempting it. for me, I have to have my emotions involved, as in a bonding situation. my partner and I corresponded daily over a maybe that contributes to a few PE's we did being successful. hugs, alysia

Title: Re: Different type of book forum question
Post by Vicky on Jun 28th, 2006 at 1:04am
Chapter 4, page 34 Grandma and the Skunk.  

He tells of his friend Rebecca and how her grandma in spirit sent the smell of a skunk to keep her awake during a car trip.  She loved the smell of skunk.  Bruce writes:

"According to Rebecca, every twenty minutes from then on the scent of skunk filled the car.  Since I'm the rational-minded type, I figured Grandma just arranged for a skunk to be hit by a car in Rebecca's path every twenty minutes.  I realize that's no less irrational than Grandma magically bringing the scent of skunk into the car, but somehow it seemed like a more logical, reasonable explanation to me."

"A week or so after I heard that story, long after sundown, I was sitting in a room with rebecca in a house in the Virginia countryside...Suddenly, the smell of a skunk filled the room..."

"Whew!  Smells like a skunk has gotten into the house and sprayed in here somehwere.  Geez I hope it's not rabid," I remarked nervously, looking around the room for sharp, vicious teeth and a raised white tail.

"No, Grandma's here to visit".  

"You have a pet skunk named Grandma?" I asked incredulously.

(Bruce, I hope you don't mind me quoting your book there).

Alysia, the story goes on to show how when Bruce said it was impossible that her grandma was producing the smell, that Bruce instantly couldn't smell it anymore--and skunk smell doesn't just completely disappear like that!  Since he had expressed doubt of this, he didn't experience it anymore.

He writes:  "It was my denial of the possibility of my direct experience that prevented me from continuing to experience it...The nonphysical reality of that smell can only be perceived if I'm willing to accept that my own direct experience of it is real.  If I deny its existence, I have no way to experience or detect it".  

This is great stuff here.  I hope whoever is looking for a copy of this can find it.  My friend's used book store always has copies of Bruce's books.  I can help find copies if need be.  Bruce, can you have them ordered up too or something?  

Love, Vicky

Title: Re: Different type of book forum question
Post by Bruce Moen on Jun 28th, 2006 at 10:52am

Vicky wrote on Jun 28th, 2006 at 1:04am:
He writes:  "It was my denial of the possibility of my direct experience that prevented me from continuing to experience it...The nonphysical reality of that smell can only be perceived if I'm willing to accept that my own direct experience of it is real.  If I deny its existence, I have no way to experience or detect it".  


When I wrote this book I really wanted to give lots of examples of the different ways in which folks get themselves stuck and a little insight into the ways I learned to retrieve them.  I figured it was a little like Felix the Cat (a cartoon character from way back before you were born) opening his 'bag of tricks' so folks could peer in and know some of the retrieval tools that are available and how to use them.

I also wanted to continue my story of the trail I was following in the attempt to prove to myself whether or not this place called the Afterlife actually existed.  The Grandma and the Skunk experience was a critical fork in that trail.  It would have been easier, I suppose, for a more skeptical minded person to decide that this experience was just some sort of meaningless, anomolous experience.  And to take the fork in the trail that continued to pursue more 'solid, concrete, scientifically provable' evidence.  But, I'm the kind of guy who sees anomolies as pointing to something I don't understand, and that is like "sic'um" to a dog for me.

Curiosity forced me to dig into the question of how it could be possible that in one instant the smell of skunk could be so strong my eyes were on the verge of watering, and in the next instant the smell could be completely and entirely gone.  The answer to that question opened up a whole new world of understanding about the nature of my own perception and the power of belief to block, distort and alter it.

Hey, Vicky, we didn't get to chat yet.  


Title: Re: Different type of book forum question
Post by laffingrain on Jun 28th, 2006 at 12:21pm
its funny but the 5 senses are guages of reality for us as a whole. I like the term you coined Bruce, "nonphysical senses." it really started me cogitating on what is nonphysical guages. I'd had some extrasensory experiences sporadically thru life and I think we all do, but don't take notice, to say denial is easier so not to be crashing or working at believing the unbelievable. grandma saved the day by producing an odor..who would think? ;)  its not proof to put in the newspaper but to that person the nose is telling the truth! ha ha!

I'll relate a similar story for fun. I've told it before and I guess its true, as a person gets more years on them we re-tell the best things that have happened to us which got beyond the doubts of this reality being the only one.
I lost my old dog and she had this doggy smell of sulfer on her as she aged, it got stronger. I identified this  smell as personally hers and spirit used this smell, as surely I was not alone in the room that night. I searched obe for her on several occassions and did find her. I cried to friends who also found her out there and would tell me she's passed on. I still wondered about that; couldn't really accept it. didn't want to. so I think spirit wanted me to stop grieving and let her go; I mean a whole month had gone by; it didn't look like I would find her for all my efforts and the obes weren't producing her physical presence even though I know theres an afterlife even for her.
while the odor filled the living room that night, my hope was that it was her, yet I didn't want to fool myself so I dashed into every room in the house sniffing to locate the source of the odor; not finding the source except in the living room I dashed outside and sniffed; nothing. I had an internal dialogue going on.
"is it her, could she have the ability to visit?"
"We have brought her to you to lay the issue aside."
I will never see her little body again?
this smell is coming from her?
then this is goodbye? where is she in this room I want to hug her. (start to cry)
she is at your feet right there, just pretend if you can't see her.
overcome by an emotional goodbye I get down on my knees and thank her for giving me 14 years of doggy love. I wrap my arms around somthing that feels like solid air and I squeeze feeling grief and love and say goodbye and that I will come see her now and then but I know she is being taken care of on the other side by someone kind. lol. those spirits had me running around all over the house sniffing like a fool just to make a point about my Tutti was ok even if she wasn't with me.

thanks for making these book threads Bruce for us. hugs, alysia

Title: Re: Different type of book forum question
Post by Romain on Jun 28th, 2006 at 4:56pm
nonphysical senses..hey..
took me a while to figure that one out too, what exactly does it means..hard to believe we do have nonphysical senses.
I remember the first time it happened, or i should say i pay attention to it. was after reading Bruce book in 2002 if my memory serve me right. Was at his seminar in Seattle a year later i think, and we were outside during lunch hour on the balcony, and remember asking a few person and Bruce if there were "wild roses" around this place. The answer i got was no not around here, but i could definetely smell it. It happened a few times while a the seminar and no way for me to find out why/whom etc. Just put it at the back of my mind for the time being.Then Bruce said there might be someone you know close by (nonphysical) trying to get my attention..hummm. 2005 while attending Guideline at TMI, one afternoon i ask Vicky (Reiki Master)  if she would do a healing on myself.She agree, while doing the healing, a smell of Wild Rose came down and surrounded us/room, i ask you smell what i'm smelling, she said YES i do..she said a women is here and putting a rose on my heart chakra..and asking forgiveness for what happened, Vicky your mother pass on (yes i said) but i don't know her or what she look like cause she pass away when i was 4. That when it hit HOME..the smell that i was smelling in Seattle and the one in TMI where from the same person and her way to let me know that she would be around to check on me once in a while, now i KNOW when i smell this fragrance; who is there.!
I also remember once while phazing/obe coming awake in a candy thought to myself well let's try the "Taste Bud" gheez that chocolate truffle was the best i ever tasted.:)

One more block/filter gone..i'm sure there're be more.

With love, Romain

Title: Re: Different type of book forum question
Post by laffingrain on Jun 28th, 2006 at 6:49pm
oh my goodness..roses smell much better than skunk or sulfer i must say! she loves u very much is the feeling I got about your mom Romain even though she was gone physically, she want you to know, she watches you and supports you. mother love is something that is too strong to die. if we don't worry about our kids, for sure, no one else will.
Romain, I never ate "out." lol. no chocolate have I tasted. but you know who has? Gordon Phinn. he says food is divine on the other side if you require it.
oh just had to mention that both you and the lady healer smelled the same, that should be plenty of verification of your mothers presense. and also same thing with Bruce and another person smell the same thing.
cool. hugs, alysia

Title: Re: Different type of book forum question
Post by Vicky on Jun 28th, 2006 at 8:44pm
Hi Bruce!

These are stories I enjoy reading over and over.  You write so wonderfully and personably that it's so easy to not only understand what you are trying to convey but also to believe it.  Enjoying your stories in this way in itself is a tool that opens perception for us like-minded curiosity seekers.  What you have learned and so beautifully explain in your writing has really put practically all my entire life experiences into perspective.  I can't tell you how thankful I feel for that.

The concept of non-physical senses is fascinating to me.  Once I learned it everything I'd experienced finally began to make complete sense.  

I too have had experiences with non-physical smells, one instance being where both my kids and I smelled the most wonderful chocolate chip cookie smell when it very suddenly filled the entire house in an instant.  My son was 3 at the time, and at the very moment the smell appeared my son came running out of his room saying "Mama, you have cookies?  Can I have some?"  I told him I didn't have any and he didn't believe me.  I assured him that I would give him some if I had them but that I didn't know where the smell was coming from.  He made me check the oven and I have to admit, the smell was so strong I thought maybe I had stuck some in and forgot about them.  Anyway, the smell lasted for exactly one hour and then vanished altogether in an instant.  At that moment my son came running back saying "where did all the cookies go?"  

Title: Re: Different type of book forum question
Post by Romain on Jun 29th, 2006 at 11:52am
Interesting story, have you ever though more about it?
Anythings that you can remember from way back or a situation when ..i don't know, mom/grandma/aunt etc..who are  there maybe?
I know for a fact that when it happened to me, it was a major un-blocking of my perception, just another chip off the good old rock.. :)
Thanks for sharing, with love

Title: Re: Different type of book forum question
Post by Romain on Jun 29th, 2006 at 11:57am
Yeah, i know, i've also read Gordon book and what he's saying about food on the other side and how wonderful it is..

A little story here, in the Heiltsuk territories here in Canada and also other First Nation territories, they believe that when a person pass over, on the first day of the passing , they burn some personal effects of the decease..ex: shoe/pant/dress/shirt/blouse, they believe that they need something to wear and for the next 3 days they "Burn Food" for the decease ...!!! so they have "Food and Clothings" for their journey..
Interesting Hey.. :o
Take care dear Soul,

Title: Re: Different type of book forum question
Post by laffingrain on Jun 29th, 2006 at 12:43pm
so they send food and clothing with the dead in Canada? are they tribal type people? they did that in Egupt (sorry, can't spell and I probably had a life there) in the tombs and mummified the bodies so the flesh wouldn't deteriorate I assume, just in case the dead changed their mind and wanted their body fresh. assuming.  nowdays we have freeze technique. we are always thinking; we'll try anything for just one more day! hmm. makes you wonder.
love, alysia

Title: Re: Different type of book forum question
Post by Vicky on Jun 29th, 2006 at 2:25pm
Hi Romain, thanks for asking.  As a matter of fact I did not know anything more at the time what this meant as far as who was contacting me.  

But just recently I have discovered some new information pertaining to that time period, stuff I didn't know at the time but looking back now makes a lot of sense.  

A little background, we had lived in an apartment that was haunted with a nasty presence.  We had negative and downright bad things happen there.  Finally "fled" and ended up buying a cheap old mobile home--not the best investment but all we could afford at the time.  A few days after moving in I was home alone one night and had the experience of seeing a spirit in my bedroom (not sure if I ever posted that story here or on Linn's).  It had taken the form of a white poofy cloud.  Not only did I see the spirit but I communicated with it through thoughts and didn't realize at the time that that's what I was doing, as it happened so fast and just seemed so natural.  But this spirit said it was just checking on me to make sure I was alright, told me it was glad we had left that aweful apartment as things there were bad and we needed to get away from there.  I thought back to it, "yeah I know, that's why we left.  I know we'll be safe here."  And then it left.  Never saw it again.  But from then on, all 4 years we lived in that mobile home, we had very nice paranormal activity.  It was as if whoever was watching over us was trying to make its presence known and let us know that good stuff happens too!  Felt kind of like a reward for having put up with all the bad stuff at the apartment.  

The good stuff I'm talking about is that cookie smell, then there was an experience with a type of perfume I'm not familiar with.  There was the time when my son as an 8-month-old cried for the first time ever in the middle of the night, which woke me and my husband up, and as it turned out I started coughing when I sat up, coughed for a good 10 minutes or so and finally coughed up blood.  My lungs were filled with blood and I had had no idea anything was wrong.  The ER doc said I technically should not have been able to wake up from having had lungs filled with blood, I should have drowned, but that it was amazing my baby had cried at that exact moment to wake me.  When I told the doc it was the first time our baby had cried he was shocked, not that our baby never cried, but at the miracle that had taken place.  He said someone was definitely watching over me.  

When our son was around 18 months old he would just get up and go into his room and shut the door.  I followed and would hear through the door, him having a conversation.  It was as if he were answering someone's questions.  I never heard the other end of the conversation but could hear him giving answers, pausing in between.  I asked him who he was talking to and he always said "no one" or "i don't know".  He did this periodically, and I'm not sure how or why he knew it was time to go into his room to do this.  He would just suddenly stop what he was doing and go.  Our son talked at an early age, by the way, said his first word at 7 months old and picked up several new words a month.  He's very bright.  

Anyway, I'm making this way longer than I intended.  My point was, that recently I had a reading with Linn and one of the things she told me was that the information she was getting was that the presence in the mobile home was a grandmotherly presence and she got the name of Margaret.  I checked with my mom, and neither of my grandparents were named that.

I had been giving it much thought, and one day while I was working on a section in my book, I realized what Linn meant by this grandmother named Margaret.  I was writing about my friend's grandmother who was named Margaret and that's when it hit me, that possibly that is the presence Linn was picking up on.  When I asked Linn what she thought, she said it makes sense, as the spirit didn't say she was my grandmother, just that she was a grandmother.  Consequently, Margaret's grandson (our friend) committed suicide three months before we moved into the mobile home and at that time we had decided we'd name our son after him.  I was about 7 months pregnant when we moved into the mobile home.  I'm not sure exactly when Margaret died, but I think it was about a year or so earlier.

Ok whew, that was a long story.  Thanks for reading.


Title: Re: Different type of book forum question
Post by Ricardo on Jun 29th, 2006 at 11:05pm
Amazing story Vicky, really got into made it so real. Sounds as if your son already has some abilities of a star child. Wouldn't that be Super!?

I only had a little spirit experience with the last ole house I lived in alone...most of the time, the knocking on the walls and some one called my name out loud one day while I was on the computer....sounded to me like my mother but I asked Carlyle and he said no..someone else, then I was a loss for who it might have been...Carlyle knew my mother as she checked on me on a regular basis according to him. Didn't know this person who called my name but he got a name later and asked if the name June meant anything to me...I said no then later that day I rememberded that my girlfriend in HS was named JUNE. But she has not crossed over yet so I was still at a he was certain it was her...The part about her coming to me and her physically still alive has me stumped to this day...weird. Well I can astral travel so I guess its
possible she can too...LOL I haven't talked to her since 62 I think it was ....she had a houseful of kids and worked for the phone co until she sister sees her all the time...I sure would like to see know...but I hate to just call her up and say hello. May do it tho...LOL. What can it harm..

Love, Ricardo

Title: Re: Different type of book forum question
Post by laffingrain on Jun 30th, 2006 at 2:21am
Hi all. thanks for the long story Vicki I got into it also. Rick, my mother called out my name also and she's still in physical, but I was just drifting to sleep, not at the computer. I think when someone is wondering strongly about another person, you can have little antannae in the head picks up the signal. I knew my mom's voice and the spiritualists call this clairaudience where you can hear them.
I think a lot of us from time to time hear our name called. most times I don't know who it is, but this time I knew it was my mother as she can get a real sharp edge to her voice; made me jump a few feet out of bed, lol. she had a definite message. wanted me to know she was cool about the troubles we'd had and was ok with moving back to calif. I told her she was doing good to send me her wave length this way, said I didn't know she was so talented! saw a smile on her face in my mind. I didn't get this in verbal, but sometimes a tone of voice says a lot also, and you have a knowing communication is taking place without the sentence structure, with just a tone and a visual of a smile. good enough. we can get better at this! I still want to give up the telephone someday! ;)

Title: Re: Different type of book forum question
Post by Ricardo on Jun 30th, 2006 at 7:44pm
Yep Me too! Why do we need it?

lots of things happen, just poking more holes in the old belef system!

One day I will totally acknowledge that this world truly is an ILLUSION!!

Thanks Alysia for being there for me. I do appreciate it much...wanted you to know.
You too Vicky...and Romain. Thanks

Love, Ricardo

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