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Message started by Bruce Moen on Jun 21st, 2006 at 6:15pm

Title: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by Bruce Moen on Jun 21st, 2006 at 6:15pm
To All,

Finally had a chance to start reading posts in the original thread and I must say it does my heart good to read about your experiences. †Techniques and methods for accelerating recovery from belief system crashes is a topic I would really like to learn more about. †Maybe some of you have already posted about how you recovered, maybe some of you will yet. †I'd like to learn more from you so I can teach more to folks going through the experience.

So far I see it as a process of reintegrating one's identity. †The comment someone made that it is like being born again really resonates with me. †It's like some or most of who we knew ourselves to be died and is gone. †And with that death we begin to learn who we have become and integrate the 'new me' into the 'what's left of the old me.'

Doing things we liked to do before the events that caused the crash are one way I have found to accelerate the reintegration. †These things are sort of parts of our identity that existed before the crash and survived it. †Doing those things seems to serve as an anchor to hold us in 'reality' as we discover more about the 'new me' and integrate it into the 'what's left of me.' †I know this works, from my experience and that of others, but I'd like to learn more about how you dealt with the crash and reintegrated/recovered.  Maybe you have a different perspective and a better way?



Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by Cosmic_Ambitions on Jun 22nd, 2006 at 1:00am
Greetings Bruce! I haven't heard from you on the board for awhile... I hope that you are doing well!

You are right about doing things that we liked to do before the events that caused the crash. This is what I had to do in order to anchor myself and to reintegrate within my new identity. It was all a very difficult undertaking for me, but by anchoring those agreeable pieces of my prior self to that of my newly developing self it helped me to become reborn without feeling completely lost in the process...

What you described is exactly what helped me to pull myself back together; and to become stronger, and ever-evolving.


Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by Marilyn Maitreya on Jun 22nd, 2006 at 12:54pm
Ditto for me. Actually, I didn't have any belief system crashes until 2 years ago and it was something very personal and I did come out of it but it took a lot of work on my part.

But when I first started out, I was so very open to learning and I accepted everything that I read in Bruce's books as fact (literally) so that when I did my first retrieval, I was overjoyed. I was so hungry for all this that when it unfolded for me, I was so happy and no crashes for me then. ;-)

Now as for the big crash two or so years ago, I had my hopes built up for something and it didn't come to pass. Things weren't as I had been told they were. I eventually moved from where I was and came back here to WA state to live once again. I can't really say what brought me out of it other than a lot of praying, talking to guidance, a lot of meditation and as Bruce said, doing things that I had done before the crash.   The crash caused me to not be able to eat much (I lost 20 lbs. in 8 weeks), have the runs almost constantly, couldn't sleep, had panic attacks (I have PTSD) and I'd thought those were over. It took a lot, even seeing a Psychiatrist but I finally, gradually overcame it, thank God.  [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

With Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by Lights of Love on Jun 22nd, 2006 at 6:13pm
This is a good subject to talk about and learn from the experiences of everyone.  

Based on my personal experiences and those of others I've come in contact with I think these crashes can range from mild to extreme.  I have found that when they are on the more extreme side that these people are truly creating themselves anew and that it's a process of incarnation that actually takes us our entire lifetime to complete.  

Sometimes we complete it early and leave at a young age like we've all talked about here.  I also believe that sometimes we have the opportunity to complete an incarnation and choose not to leave, but instead create a new incarnation using our same body vehicle.  

I think many of the more major crashes that last for a couple of years, this is what is happening.  In these cases, it is sometimes difficult to fall back on the familiar things we loved doing previously as we no longer are interested in those things.  This also seems to add to the overall difficulty because there isn't much left of the "old me" and the person hasn't learned much about the "new me" to identify with this person.

I went through this about twenty plus years ago.  It was when I developed one of my favorite sayings... I love me just the way I am, no matter what way that may be.  Repeating this or something similar to yourself often can help especially when they attached gentle, loving feelings for their self when they repeat it.  It also helps to not have expectations about what you should do or should not do.  Follow your heart.

Love, Kathy :-)

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by Marilyn Maitreya on Jun 22nd, 2006 at 8:36pm
Very wise Kathy. In VA, I put a sign on my bathroom room that said "I love myself unconditionally." †It was a constant reminder.  I need to do that here too. It might help my daughter and grandchildren.

Blessings, Mairlyn

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by Ricardo on Jun 25th, 2006 at 10:37pm
Hi Bruce, Kathy and Mair, I too went thru about slightly over one year of a severe crash, and I had to stay away from the forums reading anything at all related to the afterlife...this was just  after reading Bruces 4th book and beginning to see the truth and things happening in my life, its as you said I watched parts of the old system falling away in chunks and the regrowing of a new thinking to replace it with. Not having anyone to talk to locally I was stuck with trying to reach out on line and I would say that helped more than anything to put myself back together again. I found I had a spirit guide and I could talk to him and he had a name that was verified to me which shook me up pretty bad....but then I had known since I was 12-13 years old that some thing was amiss in my life and I was trying to find it...reading all the books I could get my hands on from Ruth Montgomery, Sylvia Brown, Robert Monroe...his grabbed me the hardest until I started on Bruces series of books, these took me to the point where I could really see myself for what I was and could was a shock...relatives all thought I had gone south for good(mentally)..being from a strong Baptist background and having guilt feelings too on top of the belief system falling was a trip for sure. They still are praying for me constantly...I don't mind...we can all use the prayer..LOL But I was shocked this last trip to the family reunion and my next youngest sister was reading a Ruth Montgomery book...I about fell out! And she was asking me questions about the afterlife and telling me stuff! I tread lightly here as I don't encourage anyone who does not feel led by spirit to take the roads I have taken...but I know now why I was born into this life, I know the purpose of all lives on this physical earth we call c-1, I know that God resides in all of us and we have no reason for guilt for anything...that we are all basically one. And learning to love unconditionally is what its all about...even Jesus when he walked the earth...was giveing the same message...tho the different religions have about diluted his teachings until they most likely favor nothing to what was really said by him. The real life, the real beginning starts when we leave the Marilyn said once on the other forum, I want to pass while fully conscious....ME TOO! I want to experience the change to pure consciousness...if its anything like some of the lucid dreams I have....I am ready willing and able...LOL

But thanks to you Bruce for being a mentor to lots of us...some unknown maybe to you, others I'm sure you are aware of too...but you have made a big difference in lots of peoples lives. Its amazing what effect one person can have on others...all of word, some times has a big effect on someone without us realizing it at all! I know you have sacrificed a lot to do the teaching and programs, books, up basically a good career with good rewards monetarily anyway to help others and it takes a lot of love to do gotta love what you do...and you show it I only wish I could give back what I have taken in some way.

Didn't mean to write a book...just got started and it kept on coming...LOL Thanks to all for listening.

Love, Ricardo :)

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by laffingrain on Jun 25th, 2006 at 11:17pm
thanks for posting Rick I enjoyed your post. you remind me things I've forgotten. yes, Bruce is a mentor for me as well. its good to just say it like it is. and so is Monroe and a few others. its just great to talk here as you say..we can share stuff here we wouldn't share anywhere else. you are giving back what you've taken by posting..thats my feeling. :-*  yea, I'm like you and Mair..I want to be WIDE awake when I pass, and not a single fear or guilt inside me..ooouuuweee! gonna fly sweetie pie!  belief system crashes...I agree, you start to notice you are thinking differently than before..noticing a situation in a different light..plugged into something new. has anyone been in love here? lol. I'm sure everyone knows about the honeymoon part? well, for me, crashing would be gradual and then boom! it would be like falling in love. everything becomes new..and you're so darn grateful because the newness stays with you. you are just not the same person. you can still get down on yourself, but not as far down as you had gone before, so each crash takes you higher into PUL where not less adventure is, but more adventures in consciousness.
I didn't have any crashes with Bruce's books, I just thought heres a bloke I like, lets see, what's he gonna do next? lol. reading Curiosity's story was my very favorite. and its right here on this site to read under resources and free articles. knew I'd found a home when I read it. oh, ACIM crashed me badly before coming here, but it just made me cry all the tears up inside. I didnt' think that was a crash..just an emptying out. you see, it made me realize I WAS loved. there was a spirit in the room disaplining my wandering mind. if that aint love, it don't exist. if you feel PUL washing over you in waves, something is happening for sure. thats when the guilt started to disappear forever, but the mental work had just begun.

hugs and I love this board and the people here. alysia

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by Ricardo on Jun 26th, 2006 at 12:51am
:)Thinking a little more and reading all the posts, I would have to agree that its like being reborn again only a little bit at a time instead of all at time I got so wrought up that I went out on my concrete driveway in a pouring winter rain barefoot just to ground myself...I was having trouble accepting that my reality and lucid dreaming were becoming entangled to the point that I worried about my sanity for a few months...thats when I backed off to give time to digest more of what had happened to me...then about that time the knocking on the walls at 4:44 am started and I heard someone calling my name out loud and no one home but me and the dog and he didn't speak that well! The knocking came from the kitchen wall between the bedroom and no way it was outside the house...I think the lady who died before me was doing it maybe...tho I guess she approved or so I perceived that anyway as she liked dogs too.
Yes I felt the waves of PUL washing over me, caused some tears to flow too....almost as bad as merging with my girlfriend from HS while visiting with relatives crossed over. That is what started  me on the road to recovery I think....realizing that hey this is real and its happening so may as well enjoy the ride and quit sweating it...LOL

I have read Curosity at least three times, I get more each time...

Sorry I can't stop at times, I guess it needs to come out, LR has heard it many times so I know she knows most of it by heart and Mair too...LOL But it feels so GOOD!!

In Constant Gratitude.

Love, Ricardo

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by Romain on Jun 28th, 2006 at 5:18pm
Like being reborn again..i like that  :D

i think it also what  happens to you in corolation with other people following along similar paths (Bruce/RAM) and little me, that there is more that we can perceived in waking life.

I believe there is more to existence, despite not having had an official OBE as such, well maybe a few little ones, not enough though.

I find it impossible to believe that (these Guys..:)  were crazy and so are a lot of you out there including myself, and luckily Iíve had a few minor experiences that provide some glue to keep everything from falling apart into uncertainty.

So here I am, reducing my ego much faster than I was before I knew all or part of this, because there is more to myself and much more to discover.

However, feeling  like Iím becoming less human, maybe I should re-phrase that, maybe not less human, just (growing) more spirit, and (achieving) a different ratio between the two.
I look at life in a more objective way, so Iíve basically became less human because Iím growing more spiritually and I believe that human existence is not all there is!!

OK, Iím a human being, and I experience this existence, or life drama as some of you pointed out. I do participate in this life dramaÖ :) and hopefully I will become saner in this life drama, as Bruce said.
I can only speak for myself, about what Iíve been able to learn, and how Iíve changed. Try this on and see it if fits..:)
< Iím less concern about being better than those around me.>
< Iím trying to be less impatient with people, Iím alert for anything I can learn from them even how not to be if thatís the lesson>
< Iíve learn to be much less ďclosedĒ with people, allow them to see a side hat I may not have (willingly)show before.>
<I try not to get angry anymore or upset such a waste of positive energy.>
<And I try not to fret over things I have no control over and what a releave this>
Those are human qualities that Iíve lost, glad I did in a way and I wish more humans would too. And I laugh a lot more and enjoying this life more than ever..

Is this what they call a believe crash..maybe it is..but i do feel much better that i did before knowing all this..Like being reborn again...i like that and may claim it as my own.. ::)

Thank you for listening
With Love

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by laffingrain on Jul 1st, 2006 at 2:36am
Hi Romain. you expressed yourself well; I resonated that the same thing happened to me. I've been a contemplative all my life, but five years ago after coming here some fantanstic spiritual things started happening for me and it started with reading Bruce's vision of a wave of, well,  curious energy with potential? floating in space checking this and that out and being pulled in by the gravitational field of the lovely, compelling green and blue earth. for she is compelling in the end. she is mother.
then, I do my own take on Bruce's vision as well he might expect me to anyway.
I feel very close to Bruce. perhaps we are the same disc or I am from a neighboring disc. I don't worry about the details right now. this explosion of life that happened is very much like the big bang to me. I can go from the premise we are one, but now it is as if we are separate beings for consciousness has individuated. my, we do insist on being individuals, so it might be hard to fathom such a vision as Bruce's for some, but not for me.

now lets get more practical or is it pragmatic, whichever it is I like what you said and its true for me also. you said: I can only speak for myself
right. how true. I can't even speak for my children anymore...they are starting to outdo me..thank god! I wish I could take credit for that.

, about what Iíve been able to learn, and how Iíve changed.
I've changed too, all of it positive. I wish I could share it.

Try this on and see it if fits..
believe me, it fits! lol.
< Iím less concern about being better than those around me.
this statement to me means you're not competitive. no commercials for Romain. he's another real thing here. I too could care less about being on top of the heap whatever that means.

< Iím trying to be less impatient with people
me too. I try to be less judgmental, use less "shoulds" on myself and others.

Iím alert for anything I can learn from them even how not to be if thatís the lesson
precisely. sometimes people will surprise you and u learn everything you thought about them was not true. I love those moments. I laff at myself if I have to eat my words. I expect others to forgive me because I want to learn what forgiveness is.

< Iíve learn to be much less ďclosedĒ with people, allow them to see a side hat I may not have (willingly)show before
this really hits home too. maybe we can call it spontaneity instead of being run by a programmed belief. I'm in that process now with a creativity drive. u know I'm a musician and Romain is one also, well the best music comes from being less closed and more open to the flow of the ideas expressed in music. I sometimes show my own self a side of me I've never seen before..but that makes me more accepting of seeing the many sides of others too.

I try not to get angry anymore or upset such a waste of positive energy
me too. life has become precious, even to a moment. and I don't want to waste a moment being drained of all the good thats going on by being angry. as I got older I focused on what brings joy, and you are younger than me and already waking up to
not sweat the small stuff.
And I try not to fret over things I have no control over and what a releave this
I usually spend a fair amount of time fretting but then it leads me to some meditative state..or I fall asleep and dream the answer or meet a guide who reminds me I'm not always thinking of the highest good for all and I might have to open my mind further to what that is going to look like in actuality. it never fails that what is looking bleak at first somehow turns out positive in the end, and so I wasted a lot of time fretting over nothing! lol. many times had to remind self to not sweat the small stuff.

and last but not least I too laugh a lot more and enjoy life a lot more. I seem to have everything I could possibly want now. anything else would just be frosting on the cake. thanks again Romain, I feel like I could talk to you for hours. hugs, alysia

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by laffingrain on Jul 1st, 2006 at 2:55am
Rick said: Thinking a little more and reading all the posts, I would have to agree that its like being reborn again only a little bit at a time instead of all at once
I'd have to say, this is true for me too. the rebirth started in 1989 after reading a course in miracles. I couldn't read any more books after that. sort of went into spiritual limbo land where I was waiting for god to take the final step. then in 1999 I made a move to Washington and started getting involved with people on forums and experienced a spurt of growth which I relate to as being reborn slowly.
____ time I got so wrought up that I went out on my concrete driveway in a pouring winter rain barefoot just to ground myself...I was having trouble accepting that my reality and lucid dreaming were becoming entangled to the point that I worried about my sanity for a few months
see, this is similar what happened to Monroe. he sought help at first, all his obes made him think he was crazy, as nobody talks about this much. thank god he got over his feelings of being odd man out. I needed the info I got from his books. and I'd like to hear more about the night in the rain Rick, I'm sure there was a turning point for u there.

Yes I felt the waves of PUL washing over me
the most intense times I felt the PUL wash over me was reading ACIM. I laid down so many programs at that time I just came away empty, like starting over.

caused some tears to flow too....almost as bad as merging with my girlfriend from HS while visiting with relatives crossed over. That is what started  me on the road to recovery I think....realizing that hey this is real and its happening so may as well enjoy the ride and quit sweating it...LOL
yes, its real. but we only believe our senses. for me love is the most real of all; u just can't make sense out of it because its not what this concrete world is about.

Sorry I can't stop at times, I guess it needs to come out, LR has heard it many times so I know she knows most of it by heart and Mair too...LOL But it feels so GOOD!!
you know Gene Kelly "GOTTA DANCE!" thats have to dance my friend, just expressing is a dance. thanks for being there for me. someday I'm gonna tell folks what u did for me. its just hard to put in words is all! hugs, alysia

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by jkeyes on Jul 1st, 2006 at 3:51pm
Hi Guys,

Today is the first day, since my last postings, that Iíve been able to feel good enough to follow through with logging in (thanks Bruce) because Valley Fever (4,000 cases in Az as of the news last week and all I keep thinking is that if I were betting the lottery I doubt that I would have been included in the group of 4,000 winners :-/) got the best of me by the end of April.  Iím still recovering from a major systems crash due to being in a drug induced coma for 2-3 weeks for repair work.  During the coma I had a variety of experiences including visiting and working with my soul group.

This experience occurred during the early part of my coma but because of the Monroe/Moen reading and research I had done, I think that I was better able to recognize it and to request a firm clear message to take with me when I knew it was time to return here. As for the month of June, it was spent on the couch in front of the tv due to my whole digestive system deciding to throw out the good bacteria with the bad.  I suspect that was my physical body going threw a systems crash as a result of the medications pumped in to this none med person.  

Anyhow Iím back and look forward to reconnecting.  Maybe you guys can help my digest what the heck happened, I know for me it was a pretty huge road sign. As I read these posts, I notice that the physical symptoms Iím experiencing are not all that unusual (similar to Mairís) and I need time to recover but I do tend to get hysterical when I remember that there is a time limit concerning my job and no great insights have appeared.  For me, all of these concerns are my special brand of Systems Crash.    

I very much value what I have learned these past 2 months and grateful that I was smart enough to follow the afterlife knowledge path but I do get a little crazy when my next move is not clear and Iíve let go of the first trapeze bar but not yet grasping the other one.

As you all probably figured out, a lot has been going concerning my systems crash but the easiest part was when I was in the midst of the early part of the hospital stay and realized that I had to just trust and yield to the situation but now I on my own again with my untrusting tendencies to decide??? I gotta stop or I'll never post.

Thanks for being here. Cried with relief when I finally was able to post again.  

Love, Jean :-*

p.s. I have so many stories and the mind is indeed very active when in a coma. Jk  

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by Marilyn Maitreya on Jul 1st, 2006 at 4:11pm
Wow!!!  All I can say right now is what a fantastic story. I'm getting the strangest feeling that you had to go through all this so that we can learn from you. I'm so happy you're back and just try to let it flow (your next move). The trapeze bar will come to you. It takes awhile to rebuild a life again.

I'm also very much looking forward to your stories of when you were in your coma. :o

With Love,

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by jkeyes on Jul 1st, 2006 at 4:43pm
Dear Marilyn,

I'm still reeling but fortunatly yesterday I realized, since the latest stomach med was working, thanks to research done on HIV, that it was time to get off the couch, store the tv (not that I didn't learn a lot about what's happening), and work on the pc.

I do view the whole thing as an ongoing adventure with amazing happenings including those taking place in my mind and the unbeleivable reconnections with sons, brothers, friends, and coworkers.

For me, part of the key is being here with you guys to work it through.

Love, Jean :-*

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by laffingrain on Jul 2nd, 2006 at 1:34am
Hi Jean. we're still connected. I think with some, I get a hint of how we are together in oneness, the one mind that connects us all. what I mean specifically, I don't call myself a psychic person..its just a spiritual connection and maybe because I truly believe in the we are one concept and life shows me this. whenever I begin thinking of a person, its so subtle in the subconscious. just floating thoughts. your name has been on my mind about a week. I wondered then I got the thought something was going on. I thought it might be your husband, then I thought its even more than that, like a major overhaul. I recalled your last post and made some associations with that but didn't get too far. I just knew too much time had gone by. well I thought she will probably be back as anytime I get that feeling and start thinking about someone, they show up and here you are!
don't mean to talk about me too much. I am glad you are back and wasn't a bit surprised! lol. am awaiting to read you further when you get time and inspiration, but don't push yourself right now too hard. I feel you need to be gentle with yourself after all you've been through. have your hair done. do a bubble bath. something just for you and you alone.

with love, alysia

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by spooky2 on Jul 2nd, 2006 at 7:32pm
Hi Jean, I thought of you, where you were, and if you would post again here, so now I know you're back!

All the best to you!

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by Lucy on Jul 2nd, 2006 at 11:50pm
JEan! wow! can't wait to hear the rest of the story! Wondered where you had gone. We don't have valley fever here, so I googled. So you were one of the lucky ones who had a bad case. We have West Nile virus here, same thing, a few people get really sick. But Arizona has had a case or 2 of that too. Alaska has neither, but then the winters are a little rough there.

Yeah, AIDS patients have been a real laboratory experiment for learning about the human immune system and things that happen when it doesn't work. So I imagine if they get the fungus they have real problems. So they developed a treatment based on AIDS patients responses to medications? Something similar happened with a drug developed for MS patients; it supresses the immune system and in a few susceptible individuals, that suppression allowed a virus many of us have in our systems...but held in check by our immune run rampant and cause problems. The physicians figured out what was happening because the same thing had been seen in some AIDS patients. The drug was take off the market for a year but was finally reintroduced recently. Probably by popular demand, because when it works to alleviate symptoms, it works really well.

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by betson on Jul 7th, 2006 at 10:36am
These sharings are very inspiring!
Jean, prayers and good wishes are being sent to and for you!

The parts of Bruce's writings that at present I see as the most influential in getting me to pull out of my crash was his easy (usually1 :) ) relationship with his guides and the necessity of clearly setting intent with them and myself.
While I was crashed I worked very hard in the workaday world and it made me sicker, and I thought
'Can't they see I work so hard for them because I love them? I must love them very much to work so hard that it makes me sick. When will I have proven my worth enough to be relieved of this pain and sickness?' Never, apparently because that never worked.  When I heard guidance I thought it was annoying; it wasn't dealing with what I thought I needed to know.

Medication helped with the physical parts  :P ,  but Bruce's writing was the key. When medication didn't restore my soul, I thought
'I'll go on strike. I won't do anything about this numb dumb soul in me since no other power is interested in it either.They'll have to call me back.'   I quit all spiritual practices, prayer, arts, study, dropped friends, any way I could show that my soul wasn't going to grow in those conditions. That never worked either. Suicide was growing as an option.

But fortunately that doing nothing period cleared my schedule and has given me alot of time to read Bruce's books.---Altho I devoured them first time around and am trying to retain more this time.

Beyond words, Bruce, Thank You!

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by betson on Jul 7th, 2006 at 11:11am
One thing impossible to assess is how high up the ladder was a soul when it crashed,  or maybe how big was the ladder. ?
What if someone sought infinity and climbed onto a really really high step, and then got smacked in the face by some universal force that had been building power for eons?
Real life here provides an analogy: a champion skier does off-season training by bike-riding. He is in the prime of his life in prime condition, preparing for world championship.  And he's handsome, ladies, very handsome. A new 20 mile biketrail has just been completed in his area and he is one of the first on it in the early mornings, speeding along when few are awake. As he takes a turn near the lovely landscaped hedge, a figure steps out of the bushes and smashes him with a baseball bat across his face. He survives, thanks to excellent medical facilities and care. But to rebuild his life, does he go thru the same inner processes as I who fell into a mudpuddle and ruined my only Sunday dress?
Don't beat me for this please; no one has a mudpuddle crash.  But I'm saying if one crashes after hard-won preparation, dedication, and sacrifice got them to where they are, do they deal with their soul's come-back the same?

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by chilipepperflea on Jul 7th, 2006 at 2:59pm

wrote on Jun 22nd, 2006 at 12:54pm:
Ditto for me. Actually, I didn't have any belief system crashes until 2 years ago and it was something very personal and I did come out of it but it took a lot of work on my part.

But when I first started out, I was so very open to learning and I accepted everything that I read in Bruce's books as fact (literally) so that when I did my first retrieval, I was overjoyed. I was so hungry for all this that when it unfolded for me, I was so happy and no crashes for me then. ;-)

Hey everyone and Marilyn,

I'm really glad you posted this Marilyn, it has helped me a lot. So far I'm learning and have been OBE, got PE proof so I know its connected, and pretty sure on life after death and have had many amazing thoughtful experiences but I haven't experienced a belief crash yet i don't think... I was beginning to think why aren't I? when I've started to go furthur down this road and whats wrong kind of thing. But its good to read you don't have too have a crash to validate, accept, believe? all this and that in time it will happen.



Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by laffingrain on Jul 7th, 2006 at 6:27pm
Hi all. regarding how to recover from crashes..sometimes you don't recognize you're in one. so maybe first step is to say I'm under some stress so could be a crash I'm going through. about 20 years ago I was in a job for 6 years where people were told there was a strike coming and since a large group of us were not in the union, they assumed that they owned us and could make us either cross the picket line to replace the striking workers or chauffer in people from other locations from the airport to replace the strikers. they said if we didn't do it, we wouldn't get our jobs back when the strike was all over.
being treated like this gave me a crash although I didn't know why I felt so bad all the time. on top of that I had some strange condition where I could go into a panic while driving, vertigo it was called, so chauffering was out of the question..I could end up killing someone in my vertigo while driving to the airport. its horrible to be behind the wheel and all of a sudden you're panic stricken for absolutely no reason. I'm over it now. I never did go to doctors and thats the only proof they would accept to be diagnosed. I couldn't cross the picket line as I don't like to take sides and have people yelling at I drew unemployment...the only one...they came after me and I won my case. but meanwhile, I'm crashing all the while. I contacted something like pnenomia..laid up in bed only awake for about an hour a day, like in a coma for a month. still didn't consider going to a doctor..couldn't get out of bed to do it actually. I could have died and never even known it was happening. must not have been my time. when I started to gradually recover I got another job which helped me come out of the crash all the way. it didn't pay as much but it was a lot more fun than dealing with a big company telling you how many minutes you could spend in the bathroom and such. its not a good thing to be a number instead of a real person; its not worth the money I finally figured out. hugs, alysia

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by jkeyes on Jul 23rd, 2006 at 1:22pm
Hi Guys,

Well my worst scenario appears to be in the process of happening. Due back at work Monday with relapse of bacterial infection and too tired to think of creative alternatives. The astrologist was right; my guides donít make their appearance till Iím hanging off the cliff by my fingernails. I find that trying to keep a positive perspective in the midst of a crash is very difficult.  I keep looking for indications on what action to take that would bring me health, joy, and peace.

Seeking something to hold on to but the feelings are so transitory and the ideas so fleeting.  I knew that I wanted a degree but did not especially desire to be a social worker, met them as a kid and did not like them, but thatís where my experience lay.  Then when I got involved in this line of work I thought/hoped it would be about helping people but I discovered it was more about billable hours (BSC # 1-I still donít know how this dilemma is going to be solved because in Capitalism it appears that the only two options are being a bookkeeper in one form or another or being an unpaid volunteer). Then being coheresed early this year into signing an ďagreementĒ regarding these billable hours while simultaneously being required to be on call for service and all compacted into 6 hours real time-well jeese! (BSC #2-I believed that when push came to shove the company would understand how much us case managers are already doing and not harass us-this really hit me in the gut as I signed this ďagreementĒ) I knew at this point that I needed a break for real and up pops Valley Fever (BSC #3, I did not think my manifested break would be so dramatic but I do believe that I created it with the help of my friendly guides), which provided me with a 3 months off.  But now itís time to go back to my job with the added burden of a bacterial infection, which doesnít want to leave (thereís a message here but Iím still not coming up with anything that gives me that spark of joy). I used to at least enjoy a cup of coffee and a few cigarettes before work and a glass of cold crisp Chardonnay and a few more cigarettes after a stressful day at work.  But now all thatís in the past (BSC #4, I can treat/relax and not have to learn to be at peace just by taking chemical mood adjusters). Which also means no more sitting at my desk to reflect on you guys wise words because this area is a trigger for my past vices.  What does one do around here to get a break here without using drugs???  A warm bath and cup of herb tea just doesnít hack it.

So Saturday I started feeling desperate again and asked my husband to pick a card (eyes closed and cards with the message to the back) from the ACIM 350 card pack just to hopefully get me a little further along in my belief system crash.  As he read it, I realized that it was the same card I had chosen March 26th to comfort me before I went to the clinic to have the coughing up blood situation assessed.  Both picks, his and mine were random, if there really is such a thing, and done without seeing the message before hand out of a box of 350 cards approximately 3 months apart.  Iíll repeat the message; ďWhen I said, ďI am with you always,Ē I meant it literally, I as not absent to anyone in any situation. Because I am always with you, you are the way, the truth and the life. (T,107).  This message reminds me that my guides etc. are hovering about me and that the synchronicity of Mac and I picking the same card, that I am more than this little body inhabiting this little physical world.  After all itís this weeyou/magic stuff that keeps me cheered.

Now tomorrow is the big day and hopefully as Mac suggests my getting back with people may be part of my recovery or then again it could be a situation closer to Alysiaís when she worked for the striking company.  Either way on the subconscious level Iím creating a situation that is not going to go as smoothly as I had hoped.  I funny when I think about the whole sickness thing and what a beautiful job, with minimal intrusion and very little recovery time, the Doctors did my lung and esophagus.  But by being in the hospital and nursing facility and/or taking antibiotics, I now have a life draining bacterial infection.  Fortunately Iíve progressed past the point where I blame my body or the establishment for betrayal and realize that it is some sort of message that will be revealed, at least in hindsight.  Meanwhile, Iím in the midst of crash (# 5-The way will be clear and easy-actually during the coma in May, I seem to remember/or inferred being promised by someone out there that if I did a certain task and succeeded, I would have an easier time upon re-entry. I successfully completed the task but no kudos).

Love to All, Jean  

Lucy, Itís funny that a lot of our best technology was originally developed for military purposes as AIDS has prompted us to do more in the field of the immune system.

betson, Thanks for your well wishes, it helped to motivate me to make sure I shared my current dilemma when it could have been so much easier just to watch a DVD.

Alysia, glad youíre getting along with your book and looking forward to having it in my hot little hands. So many things you mention are echoís of what Iíve experienced and the ways that Iíve interpreted them. Plus, I canít imagine editing a whole book when I have so much trouble even catching my ďleave outísĒ in a short post. J  


Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by Marilyn Maitreya on Jul 23rd, 2006 at 2:57pm
Jean, just a thought. Could you possibly be taking on your client's problems and they're manifesting in you in different ways?  

Love, Mairlyn

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by jkeyes on Jul 23rd, 2006 at 3:39pm

Funny you should say that shortly after I read your post regarding the healer/doctor who was able to effect the suffering individuals in the mental institution where he worked by sending empathy and love from his heart.  It is hard to belive that a change in my mind could result in anothers being calmed.  So in some ways, like the psychologist you mentioned, I do take on their problems but I also realize that there on their own personal journey but if I'm to help a bit, I do my part. It's important to keep balance between helping/empathizingt and not assuming the others problems or burdening them with my expectations.  It's hard to do this in a field/culture where we are expected to be responsible for others beyond what we actually have power over or is appropriate.

But I do want to mention that with this current illness experience, I have placed myself in and recognize that I have covered most of the areas that my clients and husband live with on a daily basis.  From delusions to hallucinations, powerless to immobility, from not being able to concentrate to not have former use of my limbs, etc. I hope to not forget these teachings. I hope to be able to respond to others with more tolerance who don't have the health which I remember having.  

I just hope that I can remember some of what I'm reading from you guys so that I can keep my perspective when I return to work tomorrow.

Thanks Marilyn for getting me thinking. Love, Jean :-*

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by Marilyn Maitreya on Jul 23rd, 2006 at 4:36pm
My thoughts and prayers will be with you when you return to work tomorrow Jean.

Again just a thought. Maybe you need to do a 'ritual cleansing' before you leave work for home. I have seen healers do this:  pulling/brushing the negative down your arms to your hands and then shaking 'it' off your hands with Intent to leave any problems you might have absorbed in the office. I'm just writing what comes to me.

With Love,
Mairlyn ;-)

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by jkeyes on Jul 23rd, 2006 at 6:45pm
Dear Marilyn,

I don't really see any external negative energy coming from others in this situation.  Any negative energy would be coming from me ie. my fear of not being able to complete my day with enough energy while keeping my wits about me.  That's why remembering that I'm not alone and to take one step at a time are so important for me now and your sharing of the story about the patients in the mental ward.  

If I had to pick negative energy out side myself, I would wonder about how all that TV watching for the past two months affected my attitude.  But even that seems to be more about connecting with others on a national and global scale.  Those individuals in the war zone are my sisters and brothers and I see it as their faces flash by.  Even GB is starting to look more human and vunerable to me.  I didn't realize that now there are no secrets and if anyone thinks there is, just watch TV on a discustingly regular basis.  Fortunatly the use of hidden cameras has come at the same time as wider acceptance of things beyond the physical world-What the Bleep Do We Know being as popular as it is.

Still, it never hurts to do rituals which calm and create more positives. I suspect that I'm still missing some of Monroe's basics and could use some help in figuring out which ones. The brain just isn't working in this area but hopefully by tomorrow I'll have more info on my next steps. It sure helps to kick this stuff around with another.  

Thanks for your suggestion.  Much Love, Jean :-*

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by spooky2 on Jul 23rd, 2006 at 8:52pm
Hi Jean,
if you had enough money, would you quit your job? Maybe this question is very silly, I sometimes have to ask myself such seemingly silly questions to get some clarity.
Illness and job is of course often connected. Sometimes it's just one knows that job is too much, but has to be done for the money, and the struggle between the wish to quit the job but to cannot actually do it because no alternative is to be seen, this struggle seeks for a solution, and one is illness. It's just one factor of course.

Your guidance is showing up only when, well, they really have to? Hmm, I also often wish mine would be talking louder. They give me almost never direct hints regarding my future. I have to make decisions on my own, they're helping with decision making, but they never give direct advice on certain issues. There must be a purpose in this, and of course our life would be completely different if we knew why this is happening or what we have to do, and this seems not to be desired.
(Only two times I was somehow forced to give an answer to a question. It was, if I want to live or not. There was no "dunno", I had to clearly state at least "yes"; I felt if I hadn't clearly responded that way, I would cease off the physical)

There is this thing called "future self", I read it the first time in one of Kyo's posts, and others here had talked about it too. I wanted to meet my future self, and sure enough it showed up in a mind journey. This is a cool thing. I mean he's also not telling me what I should do, but he gave me a strange certainty. Not certain when or if at all I would once really be this future self, but just that I had someone who was somehow representing my desires, my ideal. I leave it open for me if this "me" is a "me" in my current life future, or another life, or nonphysical, I don't know. It's strange enough, it doesn't matter to me. Maybe you check out for yourself this future self idea.

Have you somehow been able to re-visit your place you have been to when you were in the coma? I mean, a little bit re-experiencing the atmosphere of your soul group, so that you have something to lean on, to give you strength.


Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by jkeyes on Jul 23rd, 2006 at 9:52pm
Hi Spooky,

I can't tell you how much your feedback is helping me as countdown hour draws near.  The idea of viewing my future self sounds good, I just need to calm down enough to meditate.  I get glimpses of things I'd rather be doing but nothing firm enough to hold on to and apply as a money maker.  I realize that I need a plan or at least a stronger indication of where I'm to go with my skills. The experience during the coma did indicate to me that I enjoy working on group projects with like minded individuals and the illness so far has allowed me to drop habits which could inhibit this working with others. You see, I want to be able to sit in both the smoking and non-smoking areas of the restaurant.  Of course in France that would not be a problem but here in the U.S. and so close to California-Weeelll! See I'm shooting to become more flexable than I am.  

I'm afraid that the morphin may have caused the details of my stay with my soul group to be lost due to state specific memory but so far I get nothing except the last impression and the message that focus creates our reality.  I sit here with paper work that gives me options but they either don't pay anything or a quarter of what I'm earning now.  There are certain perks to this job in the people connecting area and proving that I can do it-of course now this may no longer be true.  

I've asked myself if I would quit if I had enough money coming in but then I have no focus to keep me stimulated at this time so the staying there seems better. It's difficult when your in the middle of a transition and haven't quite spotted the shore on the other side. It's also difficult to be the person standing by who truly wants to help but for some reason I sense that I'm in a holding pattern and waiting for something to break. Time will tell on this BSC one but meanwhile keeping fear at bay seems to be my greatest challange.

Looking forward to reading anything you post.

Love, Jean :-*

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by laffingrain on Jul 24th, 2006 at 3:25am
I still can't get over that you got "focus creates our reality" out there. its a real gem. I could expound on that for about 50 years
I will be thinking about you Jean. I might show up nonphysically of course..let me know if I do! I feel concerned but I'm going to practice seeing the concern as not there, insofar as the bacterial infection and the fear you are going thru. then after I see it not there, I will see miracles to happen, as they are only a change of mind to cause them to happen. maybe a little willingness to see it differently? remember that lesson plan? its one of my favorites because I didn't feel I had to give up all my beliefs and self image if I could just say, ok, I will give over that tiny bit of willingness to see it differently and maybe I will trust this book to show me if I did it right.
thats like stumbling towards the crash in increments but something good always happened if I said. ok. show me. a guide would usually say "you're sure?" I'd say well whats the worst that could happen? "oh, you might die." they'd say. and then I realized I already died and it was great! then is there something out there worse than death? can't think of anything that would be a greater fear, to not be yourself anymore? can't fathom that. do u believe sometimes we are being tested? or testing ourselves? what I used to tell myself when life sucked: wow, I'm in the pits, and it feels bad. but that means my capacity for joy is equal to my capacity for feeling pain.
even in the midst of your pain and confusion, you give us love and recognition. how beautiful is that? everything you've given to another is going to come back around to hang on, I swear it gets better.
back to focus creates reality. how I see that personally. that wonderful much like Seth would say. I see it as being one-pointed. not to be stubbornly one pointed, but if I got a choice to look in four directions, east, west, north, south, and I know for certain theres a painted sunset in the east, I'm going to look at that or focus on that for the way it makes me feel.  more thoughts..

I have to meditate on your message actually so I'll get back with you..its so good I just know I can smell something cooking!  when I used to clean houses sometimes people look down on comes with the job..heres what I would tell them when they said I missed some dirt..I'd say, yea, I did miss some dirt, but did you notice the dirt that I didn't miss? its either in my vacuum bag or down the drain. you don't see the dirt I just cleaned up. so you can see it two ways.

love to you, talk soon, alysia

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by jkeyes on Jul 24th, 2006 at 9:36am
Dear Alysia,

Your responces are super as usual and yes you can drop in anytime.  It was a miracle that I slept as well as I did last night and have been able to respond this morning because of no longer smoking so inturn having more time to write.  I printed out your observation regarding spousal abuse on another thread, it sure makes sense.  But back to the crash, today should reveal wheather or not I have the stamina to go back to work full time in this particular position.  Either way it's a waiting game right now.  

It was always in my belief system to treat those in occupations of service as real human being's like myself but so far I've never hired a housekeeper though I've considered being one.  It's like nails on a blackboard when service workers are not treated with courtesy and respect.  My mother had a lot of influence in the area of housekeeping as an occupation because when she went to her minister for assistance and finiancal guidence, he demanded she clean houses to support her children.  Since then I figured I'd rather have a dirty house or live cooperativly in simplicity than hire someone for the job.

I too have to continue to work on the focus message and it's hard with so many distractions and yes I do try to remember ACIM's tips for getting through a period like this and creating something better. But it helps to be reminded.

Gotta go. Keep the faith! Love, Jean :-*

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by black_panther on Jul 26th, 2006 at 3:02am
Hi Jean

I'm only just catching up with this thread.  AND I too have missed reading your posts and now realise why.

Today is Wednesday (in australia!!) so I hope that you had a great first day back at work on Monday.  Have been thinking of you today, but with the explanation of "no time" - I'm sure that my prayers for you today will have been effective on Monday!! LOL!!  

Looking forward to reading more of your posts and my thoughts and prayers are with you to boost your energy and health.


Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by jkeyes on Jul 26th, 2006 at 1:09pm
Hi Guys,

Black Panther-so glad to hear from you, hope all is going well with you and your fam.  I'm trying to ride through my most recent life changes to come out on the other side a bit wiser. I'm hoping that recording this process and relating it to the multiple crashes I've been experiencing this year will make my task easier.

Dilemma; Can I really trust in guidance and my inner wisdom to help me through in the midst of a BSC?  The crash appears to be about learning to mellow out and trust as opposed to pushing myself to premature action just to relieve the stress of not being back in a secure, predictable pattern.

So, I went to work Monday hoping that the three page form that the doctor filled out last week would be enough to get me back into the work routine. Welcomed back again by co-workers and had a conversation with the director of the agency.  Then my boss informs me that I need to still get a note from the doctor before I can start work.  Actually I was pretty happy about this because I was exhausted by the whole routine of getting to work on this first day and a break to go back to the clinic seemed good especially since it wonít be open till the afternoon.  

At 1pm I arrive at the clinic to request a work release and then I take it back to the program coordinator and he faxes it Human Resources. I putter around for the next few hours trying to get reactlamated to my job.  I also spoke with a co-worker who informed me of the many untapped resources and grants the government has to support a person in my situation.  He learned of all this while trying to get services for his mother.  Unbelievable amount resources! Then I was informed just before the day was over that I still could not come back to work because I had neglected to add a sentence regarding restrictions.  I contacted HR to clarify the request realizing that the clinic would be closed now and that the doctor was not on duty Tuesday.  What to do when there is no one at the clinic to talk to?  Iím learning that managed care is a do it yourself project.  Itís similar to being your own housing contractor but using the PCP to do hiring of the various companies that do the work, by providing the specialist referrals.    

Back in a quandary as to how to approach the restriction issue.  Do I request of the doctor to sign for no restrictions or do I reinforce the possibility of a three day work week till I see the doctor again during the first week in August?  I have a smart doctor who realizes that in working with me, she has to listen to what I think I can handle, support my efforts in what I want to accomplish, and to respect my values.  But sheís as overwhelmed as any of us care providers and is limited in her ability to have quality time with her patients so itís not like I can have discussion about implications of what I decide to do.  

Meanwhile, Iím continuing to go with the flow and trying not to think about no money coming in or the possibility of insurance being cancelled in case I canít return to work soon.  So I approach my boss with the three-day restriction, he considers it, and states that he will support even though we both realize that this agency demands full time energetic young people to follow through with the requirements.  But I still have the problem of trying to get a revised letter, signed by the absent doctor and faxed to HR hopefully this week.  I felt little hope in being able to have my request done in a timely manner and remember in Mondays meeting with the doctor, she stated that she was going on vacation next week.

Meanwhile, the Universe/guides say, ďNo problem!  For me spirit didnít speak in words but more in incidents or through other individuals on C1.  As I was calling the clinic to request a revision in the work release letter, I felt my abdomen. Holy beejesees! There was a hard protrusion about the size of a small orange.  As I hung up to reflect on this new turn of events I then decided to call the clinic back to report this newest symptom.  They requested that I come to the clinic by 12 pm to have it checked because it sounded serious.  While there I was able to reinforce the request for the revised letter, get a hernia doctor referral, and to get my records forwarded to the stomach specialist in time for my appointment.  As a side bonus I was given an entire copy of my chart in error. Interesting reading.  I then went back to work to give my boss, good heart, a copy of the revised back to work request and was informed that I cannot return until I get a call from him giving me an all clear.  I also found out the copy of my chart was valuable because the records would be destroyed after 7 years.  

Today Iím waiting for the clinic to open so I can follow up with the letter or waiting for my boss to call with the ok to return to work.  And even though Iím still not at a comfortable place regarding what action Iím to take about my career and many other things, Iím ďforcedĒ to slow down. I guess the difficulty stems from the fact that we are not machines that can be fit into the cultureís to do list.  We have physical and emotional limitations plus a huge variation of possibilities which have greater influence than these limitations to help us with change, crisis, and BSC if we can just recognize when we are in the midst and not get too wrapped up in taking desperate action to change it back to the ďold daysĒ. I questioned Human Resources regarding why they had to have this letter just so and were pushing it.  They reported that it was because the doctor had, in error, filled one of the questions in the wrong category and since I donít believe in accidents Iím tending to interpret this holdup as an indication that I have support in not just jumping back into business as usual before the coma.

I just got off the phone with the clinic reminding them of my need for the letter and with my boss telling him that I was doing my very best to keep things moving.  I gave them both my cell phone number to insure that they can call if Iím on the web with you all. So in working with guidance during a crash, I still have to continue to do my part but Iím noticing that Iím more able to go with the flow and be open to the next clue.  Itís sort of like a treasure hunt. BSC symptoms seem to be reducing a bit and Iím sure enjoying putting my observations of the process in writing.  My next dilemma is whether or not to go to Curves and do the workout with the hernia or not.  Decisions, decisions,
decisions !!!

Love, Jean  :-*

p.s. I hope in sharing my view of the BSC process, it will help someone else but either way thanks for listening. J

Alysia, I really do hope we are meeting out there because I relate to your posts in so many ways and to me it appears that you are mentioning things at the same time that Iím thinking about them more and more.  


Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by jkeyes on Jul 26th, 2006 at 2:22pm
Hi Guys,

Update: Boss just called and stated that agency accepted 3 day per week restriction, so I start back tomorrow.  I doubt if they ever got the letter from the doctor and my boss didn't know.  It's amazing how much energy being in crisis takes out of you even when you're feeling that your going with the flow. It's also interesting to note that when things are going in the right direction, there really are no obstacles.

It was the time factor coupled with human illness which has no time marker, that makes this whole exercise more complicated than it needs to be.  Monday was the deadline for extending my leave time with no pay, starting back to work, or applying for disability.  But as of last week, I realize that I'm still struggling with an undiagnosed infection now complicated by a hernia.  I'm experiencing no pain or discomfort and can function as usual but at a slower pace.  Recovery from a sever case of Valley Fever is also complicating the matter.

Anyhow, life moves on.  Love, Jean  :-*  

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by Marilyn Maitreya on Jul 26th, 2006 at 3:01pm
Jean, remember that we're never given more than we can handle. ;-)

I loved reading your last two posts. I see spirit at work in so many ways. And getting the 3 day work week is just great. You will come through all this a stronger person.

I'm sending you prayers and Love for complete healing. I see the bacterial infection and hernia gone.

Much Love,

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by laffingrain on Jul 26th, 2006 at 3:17pm
Hi Jean. I too see spirit as forcing you to slow down and under achieve for awhile. I also see you came back from your coma with a stronger observer part of your mind in service to you. you are now watching the movie with the observer present.

I talk about a message I was given in dream state. three parts to the mind: the seeker, the finder, and the observer. sometimes the observer is never developed until after death, some of us do develop it in later years though and it has a beneficial effect in C1 to bring us into balanced perspective. taking care of number one in other words without guilt heaped on emotionally speaking.

I know I've met you out there. we are one in spirit. hugs, alysia

Title: Re: Belief System Crash Recovery
Post by jkeyes on Jul 26th, 2006 at 3:42pm
Mairlyn and Alysia,

Many thanks to both of you for your continued support. I'm really trying to see this entire movie from a larger perspective.  I tended to do this in the places I've worked-like I had to know about the different departments before I could effectively do my job.  I had to know the complete list of my responsibilities before I could complete a particular task. My former boss used to tell me that he would give me my next chore after I completed this one.  I had to make it clear to him that that was not the way I did things as a general merchadiser, so micro managing soon stopped. Now, in my current job, I have to struggle to complete one job.  It's like being back on the register at Eckerds but with a lot more interesting action.

Love, hugs, and kisses, Jean  :-*

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