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Message started by Mikeel on Jan 3rd, 2005 at 3:05pm

Title: Morman Confusion
Post by Mikeel on Jan 3rd, 2005 at 3:05pm
One of the hardest events in my life occurred when I decided to open my beliefs to something other than my Morman up bringing. I was taught to fear anything outside of these beliefs. Very limiting to say the least. Major belief system crash and rebuild happened when I set the intention, " I want to know the truth in all things." I look back and am very thankful for the journey.

Several Months ago my grandfather crossed over. This was my grandfather on the Morman side of the family. Having been involved with retrievals for over 5 years, I was very hesitant to contact my grandfather. Must of been the fear of having to face the old beliefs I had let go of. Out of love for my grandfather I made the intention to contact him and help in anyway. He was standing by a tree in a grassy field. The tree had no leaves and the grass was golden brown. There where several people with my grandfather. I decide to move a way and not disturb the gathering. Days later I went back to visit grandfather. He was sitting under the tree in the same field. Only this time he was alone. I approached grandfather and sent him a hello. He immediately recognized me and came over and huged me. He asked why I was there and if I had died. I told him no that I was here to help. He told me that he was going to wait for grandma, that she would be coming soon. He became very upset and sat back down at the tree. He look very confused. I asked him what was wrong. He said he did not know where to go. Not understanding what he ment, I asked if he would like to go to the "Celestial Kingdom", (using the morman term for heaven, figuring he would respond more positive to it). He stood up and came over to me, I assumed this ment yes and proceeded to take his hand and lift off for focus 27. As we started to move, I was immediately jerked backwards as my grandfather pulled back. I turned my focus back to grandfather and he was saying out of fear, no no no I am not worthy to go, I am not worthy to go. He let go of my hand and went back to the tree.
I asked for help in understanding what he was feeling. I was given a knowing, "He is confused he does not know which kingdom he belongs in. He was told that only the perfect make it to the Celestial Kingdom (Heaven). He wasn't told where people like him go to." I immediately experienced great anger and emotional buildup as I felt the emotions of my past come back. I was so mad at these limiting beliefs! They were stopping me from helping my grandfather. I knew I had to leave until I could compose myself. Hours later I returned to help my grandfather. I brought a few ideas with me to help my grandfather move on. Immediately I found my grandfather sitting by the tree holding his head with both hands. I made my presents known and he came over to me, very happy to see me. This time I asked grandfather to sit with me, that I would like to do something special. He agreed and we sat together in the field of golden grass. I told my grandfather to close his eyes and image what heaven would be like. My grandfather closed his eyes and bent his head back as if he was looking into the sky. We began to float on a white cloud. We were surrounded by white fluffy energy. Within seconds we where back on the ground and my grandfather was walking back to the tree saying no I am not worthy, where do I go? Where do I go? Again, I had to control my emotions. I stood off a way from the tree. I asked for help and guidance. A thought came to me to try and a least take him to one of the belief systems. I knew there would be helpers there that would work with him. I went to grandfather and grabbed him by the shoulders. Telling him to hurry up and get ready, we have to go to church, we are going to be late. I did not give my grandfather time to think. I started to tie his tie for him and kept tellling him we have to hurry we are going to be late for church. I took his hand and lead him away from the tree. I focused on finding a church for my grandfather. We found ourselves on what looked to be a big Catholic church.(oops, this must of been from the years of supporting my wife with her Catholic religion). I quickly remembered what a morman church looked like and set an intention for help. We arrived at a morman church. I opened the front doors and grandfather and I went in. As we walked in he was met by his father, mother and brothers and sisters. They smiled and took his hand and let me know I could leave. I came back to the physical very disappointed that I did not succeed in bringing grandfather to focus 27.

I now understand how powerful some of these beliefs can be and how important it is to be able to awaken or remove the power of these beliefs from our being.

"our journey has no end, only great beginnings"


Title: Re: Morman Confusion
Post by Marilyn Traver on Jan 3rd, 2005 at 3:25pm
WOW, this does sure show how our beliefs affect us after we cross over. Thank you so much for relating this to us.  


Title: Re: Morman Confusion
Post by cynthiainolympia on Jan 3rd, 2005 at 3:32pm
Beautifully wonderful!  You helped your grandfather go to a place where he is no longer alone but surrounded with loving and friendly family.  Perfect!  He'll be fine and so will you.

And yes, clearing the energy patterns of our belief systems is some of the most powerful we do - for it affects us deeply and truly.


Title: Re: Morman Confusion
Post by Shirley on Jan 3rd, 2005 at 5:32pm
Wow..incredible.  I love to read others experiences like this..

Our beliefs can hold us hostage.  I once asked a friend, if I got stuck when I passed, would he please retrieve me, because of certain "beliefs" I was holding onto at that time..and even to a degree still am..though I am letting go.  Its hard not to when witnessing those who have crossed over get "stuck" based on those same beliefs..

Title: Re: Morman Confusion
Post by Bruce Moen on Jan 4th, 2005 at 7:26am

 Thank you for sharing your experience, there is much we can learn from it.

 Sometimes, as you've discovered, a person's beliefs can cause such unnecessary "trouble."  I applaud your patient, persistant approach with your grandfather, and especially that you remember to ask for guidance and assistance during your retrieval work.  It took me far too long to remember to do that.

 It has been my experience too that sometimes the best we can do is work within the limitations of a person's beliefs to help move to a better place.  That you were able to help your grandfather to make contact with loved ones is perfect!  

 You might discover some interesting "inner workings" by continuing to visit your grandfather and the loved ones you took him to.


Title: Re: Morman Confusion
Post by gordon phinn on Jan 4th, 2005 at 8:51am
thanks for sharing this interesting experience.  I have found, whether folk are really religious, slightly religious,  neutral or atheist, that the biggest issue is always the "I'm not worthy" issue.
It's so common it's almost a cliche.  

Despite all the knocks Catholicism can and does take, their concept of purgatories is the most useful to us in this line of work.  It can even work with Muslims if you phrase it right.

cheers for now: gordon

Title: Re: Morman Confusion
Post by Brent1 on Jan 4th, 2005 at 9:19pm

Wonderful post!  Thanks much for sharing your personal experience with us.  I do have a thought about your feeling of disappointment regarding your grandfather's final landing spot.  The family members who greeted him at the door of the Morman church did "tell" you that you could go after grandfather was accepting of the situation, right?  I'm wondering; if you had taken him to a F23 location, wouldn't the people in the "church" be suprised to see the both of you, and why would they tell you to go?  Go where?  I would think they would want you to follow along with grandpa and be introduced to the rest of the congregation.  It just seems to me that, after asking for help, you may have ended up in a place in F27 that was best suited for the situation.  Wouldn't hurt to check up after some adjustment time?

Anyway, great effort on your part and very enjoyable to read about.  Thanks again!


Title: Re: Morman Confusion
Post by LINH on Jan 7th, 2005 at 5:46pm
Hi Mikeel,

You stated: 'I immediately experienced great anger and emotional buildup as I felt the emotions of my past come back. I was so mad at these limiting beliefs! They were stopping me from helping my grandfather."

I can totally relate to the feeling of anger towards these limiting beliefs. These limiting beliefs destroy so many lives on Earth, not just those who are "stuck" and require retrievals.

As MFT intern, I have worked with a lot of clients who are distorted by what was taught to them in Church. They do not know their true purpose on Earth. They are unhappy people who do not know that their lives are meaningful and worthwhile.

I had one client committed suicide because he did not know the truth about life. He thought that he was suppose to feel happiness 24/7. When he did not feel happy, he thought something was wrong, and believe that he had to kill himself. If only he knew that life was a place of him to evolve spiritually through the experiences of feeling pain, suffering, pleasure, love, etc...  the whole spectrum of emotions.

I hold a lot of resentment towards organized religion because it seems they only foster narrow mindedness from there members. I do not know if it is the fault of the religion for the distortion of life, or the members of these religion misinterpreting the true nature of the religious doctrine?

In any event, I am so happy to be part of this message board. You guys have taught me so much since I discovered it 2 years ago!

I have actually grown as a person mentally and spiritually reading all your wonderful posts (and Bruce's books).


Title: Re: Morman Confusion
Post by Polly on Jan 7th, 2005 at 9:42pm
Linh,  What is MFT?

Title: Re: Morman Confusion
Post by freebird on Jan 7th, 2005 at 10:09pm

wrote on Jan 7th, 2005 at 5:46pm:
I can totally relate to the feeling of anger towards these limiting beliefs. These limiting beliefs destroy so many lives on Earth, not just those who are "stuck" and require retrievals.


I hold a lot of resentment towards organized religion because it seems they only foster narrow mindedness from there members. I do not know if it is the fault of the religion for the distortion of life, or the members of these religion misinterpreting the true nature of the religious doctrine?

Christianity has been perverted by many churches and denominations to teach a gospel of guilt, shame, fear, hate, judgmentalism, and eternal torment in the flames of hell for many souls.  The Bible is mistranslated and misinterpreted to sustain a false gospel in which God is more like a sadistic monster than the perfectly good and loving Father that Jesus taught people about.  Many Christians belong to churches that teach that all non-Christians automatically go to hell to be tortured forever without any hope of release, and these churches often teach that some Christians are not good enough to avoid the same fate.  There is an emphasis on the devil and that all sin is a result of possession or influence of the devil and demons, and that if one is under such influence one could go to hell.

Jesus Christ taught of a loving God who considers us as His children.  He taught that the lost sheep will be found and the prodigal son will be accepted back into his father's household.  He taught forgiveness even for the men who pounded nails into his hands.  Jesus came to earth to teach people about love, hope, mercy and forgiveness, not fear and hate and the tortures of hell.  In fact, there is not a single verse in the original Greek and Hebrew Bible that teaches an everlasting damnation to hell.  This is a mistranslation that has been perpetuated by traditional church doctrines.

So many people live their lives already in hell, because they are terrorized by the thought of a fearsome God who dangles us over the flames like a spider on a thread, as the famous fundamentalist preacher Jonathan Edwards said in one of his sermons.  This infernal perversion of Christianity has led to wars, heresy trials, torture chambers, burnings at the stake, and many people going insane because of their fears of being condemned by a cosmic tyrant to a permanent state of horrific punishment.

If Jesus Christ could see what has been done to his faith, he would cry out in anger at how his name is being misrepresented to teach monstrous doctrines that lead to spiritual regression rather than advancement.

God is good, and he has designed the universe so that all souls will ultimately be saved.  And with a careful reading in a correct translation, we can discover that this is what the Bible actually teaches.  Too bad so many churches are teaching a false gospel, a gospel that would be unrecognizable and an abomination to Jesus himself.


Title: Re: Morman Confusion
Post by Brian Hacking on Jan 7th, 2005 at 11:32pm
My Livejournal post from November 2003,  I think it may be aplicable here.


My belief system has shifted dramatically. A little background first. I an 26 years old, born in Idaho, and raised in Vernal, UT to a nice LDS (Mormon) family. Raised in the church, taught to believe that the LDS church is the only true church, and that If I ever backed out I would basically be sent to hell because I 'Knew the truth, then revolted against it, Fast forward 24 years, I was married and had a little girl.

Now I look at my little girl and think, how am I supposed to raise this little girl? I think to myself, If God is like us, only infinitely more loving and powerful, how could He, as a loving father, tell his children, I love you, but you disagreed with me, so you must now go to hell and be forever separated from me.

The standard Christian view of God portrays God as a selfish, jealous, control freak. Not a loving, forgiving Father.

Anyway, suffice it to say that I am not going to indoctrinate my child with guilt over who she is, set up this interpretation of who God is, nor will I allow others to do so.

Anyway, enough ranting for now.

I will write again later.



And my post from the next day


"There are many different souls on the Earth plane today. Each soul has its own vibration, as does the wolrd of the spiritual. Even those who study Christianity are in the right too. There is room on the Earth plane for all views. Those souls, who are searching, will find the view that suits them. They should be allowed to do so."

Interesting Quote I found today, voices how I have felt for quite a while now. (even if it sounds contrary to yesterdays post) I do not have any animosity to the churches, I think that people do what the need to do to help themselves, however I do think it is wrong to point to somebody and say 'you must believe as I do or you will not be saved.'

Anyway, gotta get back to work.


With Love,

Brian Hacking

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