Hi all  :)
I'm new to the forum so thought I'd say hi.  It looks a little slow at the moment.  I've been enjoying the heck out of Bruce's books.  I'm creeping through the guidebook for the sink-in factor.  He's got a great writing style--very easy to follow.  I can see a lot of Robert Monroe's influence in his books as well. I had been hoping (for the longest time) that they would come out in Kindle, but they never did for some reason, so I broke down and ordered them. 

I was so sorry to hear about his passing.  Death sucks mud, it really does.  I know it's not supposed to; that they're all still accessible at some level and all--have even proven it for myself.  But it still doesn't make the separation any easier.  I also think I'm learning that the older you are the harder it is to be so sure about the 'proof.' 

But on this note, I was just reading an article on Jurgen Ziewe's website (author of Multidimensional Man--got it ordered too; catching up on non-ebook format I guess), and he jogged my memory of something I used to think of a lot in the past but haven't given much more thought to the premise, which is, "what if we're already dead?"  Then, synchonastically, I was listening to a talk the next day on YouTube about Anita Moorjani's second book, 'What if this is heaven?'  Then the next couple of days I keep getting all these strings of numbers, like 1111s, 333s, 555s, etc., much more than I usually do.  Eerie.  It's like, did I hit the jackpot?

When I consider some close calls I had in the past, during very extensive and difficult separate occasion surgeries, with no recollection of any NDEs, I can rationalize the possibility.  So how do we really know we're not dead?

Hi John

Welcome to the forum.

I like Jurgen Ziewe a lot. Back in 2015 I read his 2nd book, Vistas of Infinity. He is not a “how to” author like Bruce Moen or William Buhlman, but he shares his personal experiences and travels with a style that I enjoy reading. He also shares his own experiences with guidance (what he calls his “invisible companion”), and this matches with my own experience (e.g., that we all have guidance).

Regarding "being dead" while extended here in 3D physical reality ... well, that wording does not resonate with me. When we drop the body, it dies but we do not. When the body dies, we learn to orient ourselves without a physical body (e.g., because we are, each of us, more than our physical body).

I have accumulated a few non-physical experiences that would contradict the conclusion that I am already dead. For example, talking to my dad after he physically died a few years back. So, this is why I would suggest that this does not resonates with me.

Does that make sense?

Hi John,

Welcome to the Conversation Board.  It's always nice having a newcomer.  Personally I'm so happy to hear that you've enjoyed Bruce's books!  I love his writing style too and how personable it is.  A little note on the possibility of e-books versions, not sure if I'm supposed to say anything or not but I think they are working on making his books e-books.  As soon as I know more I will make it known for sure.

I agree with you that accepting death is so hard even when you know it's not the end and that our loved ones are still "here" somewhere.  And even though I believe we can access them and have experiences of contact and communication (as I know I have had my own proof of that) it still doesn't make the separation any easier to deal with. 

I haven't read or listened to either of the people you mentioned.  I know who they are, just haven't delved into them yet.  I myself don't believe we're dead and there's nowhere else to go from here.  I believe this physical reality is definitely transient and that the place we go after this is incredible.  I speak from my own experience of many OBEs and having had an NDE. 

Where are you in the Guidebook?  And how far along are you now Subtle Traveler?

Vicky

Hi Subtle Traveler and Vicky,
Thank you both for the welcome.  Jurgen's book is due in the mail today.  I guess he only has the two books, but they do look interesting. And yes, I like Bruce's 'how to' approach a lot, and especially that personable style.  I feel like I've known him for a long time but have never met him.  He actually seems like family in a way.  I feel that way about Monroe too.
 
It's good to hear that Bruce's books might be coming out as ebooks.  They're much easier to read for me due to eye problems.  I was very pleased, and amazed, that his first two books were printed with such high contrast fonts.  Unfortunately the rest of his books changed to that usual low contrast faded out grey that strains your eyes.  I don't know why they do that.  Even most web pages have this same problem.  I don't get it.  Do most people think that fonts that nearly blend in with the background look better?  Saving money on ink and memory maybe?

The idea doesn't really resonate with me either Subtle Traveler, but there still seems to be a lot of plausibility to the argument.  Do we actually have a physical body?  Or is it just an aspect of a hologram that some say we are a part of?  When I'm in a dream, lucid dream, or even out of body, I can have a body that seems just as solid as my physical one as you probably know.  I've been shot with a gun and died in a semi-lucid dream body and floated out into an out-of-body state--shot in the head which kind of hurt.  Maybe our physical body is just another concensus realty?

I didn't mean to imply that there wasn't any progression from our present state, Vicky, with nowhere to go.  I'm thinking more like in being stuck in some lower focus level and not knowing it--I guess is what I'm trying to say.  Just like in Bruce's books, how would you know if you're stuck, especially if you didn't even know of the concept in the first place, short of being retrieved that is.  Anyway, in the guidebook I'm in the first page or two of chapter 4, (Beliefs).  Looks like a good chapter.  I've read those first couple of pages a couple of times now :).  I got hung up for a while in that 'silly finger exercise,' but that's another post in itself. 

Vicky wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 1:28am:

And how far along are you now Subtle Traveler? Vicky

I am longer reading AKG. I stopped near page 160 about two weeks ago. Doing the exercises from memory simply became too difficult. I have moved on to other things.

John Ells wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:17am:

The idea doesn't really resonate with me either Subtle Traveler, but there still seems to be a lot of plausibility to the argument.  Do we actually have a physical body?  Or is it just an aspect of a hologram that some say we are a part of?  When I'm in a dream, lucid dream, or even out of body, I can have a body that seems just as solid as my physical one as you probably know.  I've been shot with a gun and died in a semi-lucid dream body and floated out into an out-of-body state--shot in the head which kind of hurt.  Maybe our physical body is just another concensus realty?

OK. I sensed that this was where you were going.

The hologram metaphor is a popular conclusion (because it does explain some things BUT not all). I would respond that the hologram is merely a part of the whole (e.g., it is one focus when there is not just one focus). If you consider this, it leaves room for your presented idea about some kind of consensus about "bodies".

However, I might point towards a new conclusion or resting point in this way ... "our experience in physical or 3D reality is somewhat real". Yes, we have a real physical body - BUT only temporarily. Again, the physical body and its senses are how we experience our world and KEEPS EACH OF US focused here (but that is not all of what each of us are). Could you and I conclude here that we are not having a conversation while typing away on our physical keyboards? No, of course not. However, this does not mean that other things are not happening while you and I are focused in the physical or 3D.

fwiw, the work of Frank DeMarco has been very helpful to me in this particular area. He has talked at length with his guidance about this and other topics. Your particular question about the hologram is answered in his book, The Sphere & The Hologram.

I really like that you are working and relating from your own experiences (e.g., relating this to your perceptions of your bodies in various experiences). Learning as you go along, making adjustments, going back and looking at past things with new eyes, etc. ... this is what living in the 3D crucible is about.

I have had experiences which support the conclusion that we have access to multiple bodies (e.g., depending on where our consciousness goes). In one of my first OBE's, I was not grounded when I began projecting and my second body was spinning wildly on the other side of the room due to lack of grounding while I was still near my physical body (slightly out of phase with it) watching the 2nd body. So, I have concluded myself how could it be anything else? (e.g., we have access to multiple bodies)

Thanks for sharing.

It's one thing to be present to others who transition and another to be present to oneself in transition.

Thanks for the feedback ST.  I do appreciate it.  I definitely feel, however, that we'll have to come up with a new perspective on the word 'real' very soon.
 
I'll probably get back into DeMarco's books as they do seem very good.  I've only read the first Rita's World so that's all I can go by, but although easy to follow, it just seemed sort of tedious to read for a lot of superfluous stuff.  Might have just been due to other things going on at the time though.  I do intend to revisit however.  They're very reminiscent of Jane Robert's Seth books, which were also excellent. 

Morrighan wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 12:51pm:

It's one thing to be present to others who transition and another to be present to oneself in transition.

Hi Morrigan.  Yes I will definitely miss me when I'm gone.  :)

John Ells wrote on Mar 17^th, 2018 at 10:16am:

Thanks for the feedback ST.  I do appreciate it.  I definitely feel, however, that we'll have to come up with a new perspective on the word 'real' very soon. I'll probably get back into DeMarco's books as they do seem very good.  I've only read the first Rita's World so that's all I can go by, but although easy to follow, it just seemed sort of tedious to read for a lot of superfluous stuff.  Might have just been due to other things going on at the time though.  I do intend to revisit however.  They're very reminiscent of Jane Robert's Seth books, which were also excellent.

I have enjoyed Seth (the little that I have listened to). I listen to Abraham once in a while. When I finally met my primary guide in an OBE, I became attracted to Abraham (Hicks) - it was like I was led to it. It just started making more sense, so I went with it.

Rita's 3rd book is very good (Awakening from the 3D World). I am currently reading it. It is a little more cogent than Rita I and Rita II (which are not easy reads). Rita shares her transition from a non-physical perspective in 'Awakening'. In some contrast, Rita I and Rita II are more about our 3D perspective, but they set up the 3rd Rita book nicely.

It sounds like we read a lot of the same authors, so I would not be surprised if this conversation continues. Again, welcome to the forum!

You do not transition you die!

Alan

Alan McDougall wrote on Mar 21^st, 2018 at 8:34am:

You do not transition you die! Alan

Not quite, Alan.

The physical body is temporary and dies, the soul does not. The soul is eternal and conscious. Therefore, when the body dies, the soul can begin its transition. That is what the afterlife is ... the soul continuing to live but without a physical body. And I know this, because of my own conversations with people who have transitioned. That is what Bruce Moen's work is about.

Have you had an out of body experience? Or met in a non-physical experience, someone who has physically died?

Thank you for that response ST.  I couldn't have said it better myself.

Subtle Traveler wrote on Mar 24^th, 2018 at 12:15am:

Alan McDougall wrote on Mar 21st, 2018 at 8:34am: You do not transition you die! Alan Not quite, Alan. The physical body is temporary and dies, the soul does not. The soul is eternal and conscious. Therefore, when the body dies, the soul can begin its transition. That is what the afterlife is ... the soul continuing to live but without a physical body. And I know this, because of my own conversations with people who have transitioned. That is what Bruce Moen's work is about. Have you had an out of body experience? Or met in a non-physical experience, someone who has physically died?

Heck, I know all this and have been an on and off member of this forum over the past 16 years with more than 3000 posts etc.

I have had out of body experiences and most of them have been unpleasant.

Have you heard of the Old Hag concept, in which you feel a huge pressure on your chest, something like an elephant squeezing out the life of you? I have experienced this many times, in conjunction with a loud buzzing noise near me, especially when I was in a state of sleep paralysis also known as hypnogogic sleep. Unpleasant to say the least

Also during this state, the feeling or sense that a malignant or malevolent evil entity is looking down on me, but I can never see it while in hypnogogic sleep paralysis.

Of course not all of my OOBE where negative and in some of them I have traveled in what I believe is my spiritual or ethereal body far out into the physical universe as well as visiting placed far from where I live in South Africa, such as going to New York City and stand on the Brooklyn bridge etc.

I am well aware that our souls are eternal, but the last thing I ever want to happen to me, is to be reborn into another human body on planet earth, and go through the whole drama, of growing up, dealing with parents, going to school or university again and experiencing over and over again the very boring events that we as mortal beings have to endure of experience.

I am a Christian and this makes it very hard for me to accept such things as the "Out of Body Experience".

I have also had a near-death experience due to total AV heart block, in which the complete scenario of CPR electric paddle shocks, adrenalin, and atropine injection directly into my heart muscles etc. I now live with a heart pacemaker to keep me alive.

God Bless
Alan McDougall (Yes that is my real name!)

Alan ...

Thank you for sharing some of your experiences.

Yes. It sounds like you have had out of body experiences. And, it is very clear that you have experienced the "vibrational state" (e.g., loud buzzing). The vibrational state is a signal that "you" (not physical) are preparing to separate from your physical body. And, not everyone experiences the vibrational state (about 60% according to William Buhlman's surveys). Some can slip out of their body without experiencing it. I experience the vibrational state quite frequently myself (e.g., usually in the early morning hours after preparing my body with energy work before sleeping).

However, it does not sound like you have had a "clear" experience of meeting and talking to someone who has physically died and transitioned to the afterlife. That is interesting to me. Clarity is an important feature of our consciousness. For example, the malevolent entity you perceived ... and the pressure on your chest ... those sound like fearful experiences. Fear can actually blur or distort our perception-interpretation of our experiences. So who the being you started to see is ... well, that can become distorted by the fear. Fear is something that all humans experience, so this type of blockage or distortion is not uncommon. I shared a fearful experience not too long ago here on the forum.

Have you read any of Bruce Moen's books? If not, have you read any other OBE authors (e.g., William Buhlman, Jurgen Ziewe, Akhena, Robert Bruce)?

Hi Alan,  some think (including me) that it is always our own choice whether to incarnate or not.  In addition to the books mentioned by ST,  also look at Michael Newton's, Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls.  Personally I think they're outstanding.   

John Ells wrote on Mar 25^th, 2018 at 8:56pm:

some think (including me) that it is always our own choice whether to incarnate or not.

I think so too.  I'm always remembering that there's me here and then there's the bigger Me, the greater part of my being, and that what the me here wants might be different from what the rest of me wants or has planned.  Obviously it's all a matter of perspective.  From my present perspective, I am not particularly thrilled about the idea of coming back again, but I can open my mind and imagine from another perspective that there would probably be some good reasons and benefits from doing so. 

I like to believe that even though my soul makes plans and that there are things I'm not aware of from my perspective at the moment, that I still have free will to make changes and decisions at any time in this whole process.  It's my belief that we have a life, not just here, but there too.  And since time is irrelevant per se, then I just try not to worry about such big decisions from this perspective. 

I wish I could explain better how I "see" and understand my beliefs about these perspectives.  Time does play a role but not in the way we normally think of time.  Time plays a role in how long it takes for us to grow, change, adapt, learn, etc, and I think that whether we're in this life, or another, or alive or dead, it doesn't matter.  I think we have many avenues in which we can learn and do what we need to.  We have options.  That's what I believe.  So reincarnation is just one of those options. 

What I'm more interested in than anything else, if I could know anything I wanted to know...is that I'd like to know the reasons I came into this life and have had the experiences I've had, both bad and good.  I'm the kind of person who believes there's a reason for everything, and we choose which lessons we want to learn, and we'll keep repeating the same circumstances or situations until we learn.  But I just want to know all the details about me on a soul level. 

Does anyone else wonder those things?  Maybe I don't really want to know all the answers!  ::)

Does anyone else wonder those things?

Absolutely!  All the time.

In the course of work on Self, and in my professional capacity I find very little regarding past lives, future lives and ingress / egress in our shared "reality" that corresponds to anything I've ever read on the subject(s).

What I find is we already have all we need to navigate these waters. In this moment all is available to us. Sometimes it takes a bit of a nudge, hey? In working with a client, I am always more amazed than they!

Access to this is just another aspect of some of the techniques Bruce articulated.

What I find when I am at work is just how excited people are to be here. It's something we want to do and come here with agreements on all parts.

All fine words, but how about a little practicum? You (general you) came to the Afterlife Knowledge forum in search of afterlife knowledge.

What I personally find to be most effective is stay in your body. Our bodies are exquisite vehicles for exploration! .... A good relationship with your body helps a great deal .... how do you feel when you are told you are "not good enough"? Our bodies respond to our love, or lack of love too.

You (general you) are free to ask your body to show you  (assuming you and your body are on speaking terms) what you truly desire to know .... Try this: using the techniques you learned here or from similar sources, look to the cellular level. Look for what is ready to show itself to you. If you're an "intent-placer" you can place the intent for your body to show you what to be present to now.

It's quite easy to go from there to be shown your inception point and just run the trace back from there.

Currently, I probably wonder more if the LA Clippers can still make the playoffs.  :(  ;D

That 'each of us chooses to come here into a 3D setting' ... well, that makes the most sense to me. It is a community decision however. We are each a community. I do not have a complete understanding about all that, but I am learning quickly about it. And I would suggest that Bruce Moen's "disk" concept is a part of supporting our community.

fwiw ... I can no longer read the Michael Newton stuff. I read 3 of his books in 2014 before I had my first self-initiated out of body experience (2015). Based on my current experiences with my guidance and meeting some of the lives that I spring from, many of Newton's conclusions no longer resonate with me. And one of the things that I enjoy (a lot) about my current practice is that I am not reliant on a paid professional (e.g., like a past life regression therapist) to get my questions answered.

Basically, Newton's conclusions about his clients experiences were based in 3D thinking (time and space). And, to use Bruce Moen's language to describe a looming problem, Newton's conclusions were subject to both Newton's perception-interpretation and his client's. That's a lot of filtering. However, that does not mean that past life regression does not have benefit from some.

So ... since we are talking about this ... I would suggest again that we are complex beings (all-D) ... not wholly linear ones (subjected to 3D limitations when our body dies). Without a time and space limitation, that means that our expansion here is NOT life after life ... NOT in a succession. We only perceive that it is a succession, while we are limited to our physical body and the 3D limitations on this environment (time and space).

Those limitations (time and space) disappear when we are no longer in the 3D in our physical body.

Subtle Traveler wrote on Mar 26^th, 2018 at 8:13pm:

So ... since we are talking about this ... I would suggest again that we are complex beings (all-D) ... not wholly linear ones (subjected to 3D limitations when our body dies). Without a time and space limitation, that means that our expansion here is NOT life after life ... NOT in a succession. We only perceive that it is a succession, while we are limited to our physical body and the 3D limitations on this environment (time and space). Those limitations (time and space) disappear when we are no longer in the 3D in our physical body.

Hi S-T

I find the physical body is no firewall to 5D+ .

One of the more interesting journeys one can make is to what may as well be called No Time. It's pretty fun, actually.  :D  Makes things much more interesting!   8-)

Morrighan wrote on Mar 26^th, 2018 at 9:34pm:

Hi S-T I find the physical body is no firewall to 5D+ . One of the more interesting journeys one can make is to what may as well be called No Time. It's pretty fun, actually.  :D  Makes things much more interesting!   8-)

Yes, I do understand. I have recently been training my brain with a focus 15 recording.

I framed my last comment to specifically include "non-experiencers" who may be quietly following along here. When I visit the site, I always see 20 to 25 others listed as being on the forum, without knowing who they are. There is apparently a bigger (but unengaged) audience here.

I also realize that we do not all read the same books or have the same experiences. So, I am feeling more than ever that we need new scaffolding to proceed in our exploration of the topic of "who we are" ... not continually relying on the old structures of life after life in a linear format (e.g., as with past life regression using 3D interpretations).

That's why I held forth.

Yes I see, Subtle Traveler.  :)

One may think of it as new terms of engagement.

ST said:

"Basically, Newton's conclusions about his clients experiences were based in 3D thinking (time and space). And, to use Bruce Moen's language to describe a looming problem, Newton's conclusions were subject to both Newton's perception-interpretation and his client's. That's a lot of filtering. However, that does not mean that past life regression does not have benefit from some."

Bruce would have agreed with you. When I discussed this with him, he was skeptical of Newton's findings (actually those of his clients who were under deep hypnosis). Bruce pointed out that people tend to subconsciously want to please their therapist and would tend to reinforce the theories of the therapist. Assuming Newton believed in what his subjects reported; i.e. when we incarnate we take only the amount of our energy needed for the challenges we and our guides set out for our upcoming life, and part of our energy (our spiritual self) stays behind, then it's not surprising that's what was reported.

Supposedly no one incarnates without very careful planning and preparation, otherwise the earthly life may be misdirected or even wasted.

My own opinion is that Newton is full of beans. Either that or the guides have gone off their meds. The chaos and violence we see every day in the world is human behavior run amok. The careful planning is, to be kind, not so careful.

R

Hi Rondele ...

Thanks for the feedback, and especially sharing your experience with Bruce Moen. I think that you present some interesting questions about "where was guidance in all of this?".

I have always sensed that Newton was well intentioned. So, I do not condemn his work. However, he is no longer someone that I would recommend reading.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/review/RK2RM6MXQUB6O?ref_=glimp_1rv_cl

Here is one of the main problems that I now see with the evolution of his life work. As Newton started categorizing his findings into books that's when "front loading" had the opportunity to quickly creep into his work and research (even at subconscious levels). So, for example people would read his books and then come to him for sessions expecting to experience and explore all the things that he stated in his books (e.g., council of elders, tunnels of light, life planning machines to return to the physical). And because of consciousness and our ability to create with thought, those projections would show up in people's interpretations of their experiences with Newton in those sessions. And sometimes, Newton (or the supporting therapist) would actually guide the client, "you are now going to the council of elders ...".

But, here's the "juice" or "kicker". Then, Newton would put those interpreted experiences in his 2nd and 3rd books as further validating his work. Then, his students would also "front load" with their clients ... repeating the cycle. Kind of a weird circle of dirty data ... from a scientific, 3d point of view.

There are some past life regression therapists that I respect. Nancy Canning is one (a student of Newton who broke away from his clan). I personally did not find the need for a past life regression, because I met my guide and began asking them these kinds of questions. That's when I was introduced to some of the lives supporting me.

Thanks for your input.  :)

(Note to all reading: I have edited this comment for clarity. When compared to the pioneering life work of Robert Monroe or even Bruce Moen's additions to that, I can no longer consider Michael Newton work equally as pioneering. See the link to my book review above, if you have questions about that.)

It sometimes happens in the course of my [work] to be present to what some call past lives. That concept in itself does not present a distortion that I've seen. It's a matter of shifting to the metapoint where there is no conflict.

The balance to me as I work in these spaces is being fully present to what presents itself. Re-telling the tale of what occurs is a great deal like the re-telling of a retrieval. Actually, it is very much like a retrieval.

What I see when "past lives" present themselves is the .... well okay here is an illustrative story:

This is a place that draws both blues musicians and blues fans. They serve legal refreshments.... To my left is a biker couple. She is a very skilled seer herself; she sees auras and deliberately sits next to me. This is what I learn as we talk as I wait to take my set on stage.

She asks me to take a quick look at her field and tell her what I see. "You didn't tell me anything I didn't know," she says. I reply: "But you needed to hear what I say, and that's why you found me."

This is how I see things with "past lives". This is true of every "past life" I've seen. We know. Of course we know. It's not about magically time traveling in some light vehicle to the year 2525 or the year 0. It's about opening the field to see one's self right now, fully here in the present in a physical form. It's a profound moment.

That's a start at what I find regarding "past lives".

ST wrote:
"And all this is no different than TMI folks front loading their interpretations of their OBE's after reading one of Monroe's books (e.g., all the interpretations of loosh is a good example). Bob Monroe was a true pioneer (so was Bruce in some ways), but he made mistakes in his early interpretations. Mistakes are a part of pioneering.

Newton was (while void of the OBE) a pioneer also."


Thanks for pointing that out.  I was just going to mention that the Gateway Experience is purely hypnosis.  I imagine that the more advanced programs are similar if not identical.  I only have used the Gateway CD's, however.  Still I hold the highest regard for Monroe, Newton, as well as Bruce--and many more for that matter.    And like you, a lot of my regard stems from past (and verifiable) experiences.  Also don't forget that, as Moen points out, it often takes some imagination to light the fires, so-to-speak, at times being unclear just where the imagination ends.  As a matter of fact, most, if not all, of Bruce's teachings remind me to a great extent of Shamanism, of which I am also a great fan.  But all this is OK.  From whatever path we're comfortable with we still get verifiable experiences.  It seems to me that whether we use hypnosis, prayer, stones and bones, or just our imagination--or especially our imagination--we will always be able to get to where we're going.

I strongly disagree. Gateway is much more than hypnosis.

We'll have to agree to disagree then.  All of Monroe's verbals, with the assistance of binaural beats. is basically trance induction.

I'm enjoying the conversation from everyone.  Wish I could formulate into words what this is hitting on for me.  I gotta let it sink in some more.  I like what you said, ST, about how we're complex beings, not wholly linear ones.  I agree, and it got me thinking so much that I can't really put it into words.  I'll sleep on it  ;)

Subtle Traveler wrote on Mar 27^th, 2018 at 8:53pm:

I strongly disagree. Gateway is much more than hypnosis.

Don't misunderstand, I in no way mean that Gateway (in its entirety) is nothing more than hypnosis, but it does take hypnosis (to reach an altered state of consciousness) to get to the point where <whatever you want to call it> that makes up our true being, takes over.  As I stated above, more or less:
"Also don't forget that, as Moen points out, it often takes some imagination to light the fires, so-to-speak, at times being unclear just where the imagination ends."

I believe that hypnosis is not a trustworthy way to find out info about the aferlife.

What people such as Shakuntala Modi, Michael Newton, Dolores Clairborn, Brian Weiss and Edith Fiore have found out while hypnotizing their clients, is quite contradictory. Newton speaks as if everything is peaches and cream in the afterlife, Modi found quite differently. Newton says there are no evil beings at all and that possession doesn't take place, while Modi says that Satan and Lucifer both exist as distinct beings, there are many demons, and that many people become possessed. She also says things such as "angels have wings." I've found that each hypnotist has found things that don't seem true.

Fairly frequently their hypnotic sessions lead to their client channeling some being. Sometimes such channeled beings contradict other channeled beings, even when the same hypnotist is involved.

False memories can be created.

A client is quite open to suggestion, and might pick up on the therapists thoughts at a sub-conscious level.

For what it is worth, my guidance has warned me to be weary of hypnotists (on more than one occasion). One time I was meditating and wondering about hypnotism as a source of information, and I found myself in a room (non-physically) that was filled with people, and at the front of the room was a hypnotist that was misleading the people in the room. This experience came with the sense that sometimes hypnotists mislead people quite a bit.

Each hypnotist will in some way say, "my method of hypnotism is a trustworthy way to obtain information."


http://nondualityisdualistic.com/a-night-in-heaven/chapter-13/



rondele wrote on Mar 27^th, 2018 at 12:45pm:

ST said: "Basically, Newton's conclusions about his clients experiences were based in 3D thinking (time and space). And, to use Bruce Moen's language to describe a looming problem, Newton's conclusions were subject to both Newton's perception-interpretation and his client's. That's a lot of filtering. However, that does not mean that past life regression does not have benefit from some." Bruce would have agreed with you. When I discussed this with him, he was skeptical of Newton's findings (actually those of his clients who were under deep hypnosis). Bruce pointed out that people tend to subconsciously want to please their therapist and would tend to reinforce the theories of the therapist. Assuming Newton believed in what his subjects reported; i.e. when we incarnate we take only the amount of our energy needed for the challenges we and our guides set out for our upcoming life, and part of our energy (our spiritual self) stays behind, then it's not surprising that's what was reported. Supposedly no one incarnates without very careful planning and preparation, otherwise the earthly life may be misdirected or even wasted. My own opinion is that Newton is full of beans. Either that or the guides have gone off their meds. The chaos and violence we see every day in the world is human behavior run amok. The careful planning is, to be kind, not so careful. Regarding the channeled beings, one needs to use one's discrimination and be "willing" to question when it comes to such sources. Below is something I wrote. R

Recoverer 2 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2018 at 10:19pm:

I believe that hypnosis is not a trustworthy way to find out info about the aferlife.

Hey Recoverer2 (Albert) ...

Just wanted to first note that the link to your article got embedded within the quote from Rondele ... some people here might not understand that mishap.

Also, I generally agree with you that hypnosis (by itself) is less reliable. I also think that it is fair to categorize it as a "suggestable state" (as held forth by Rondele). I like that each of you have mentioned 'our guidance' in your comments, and that you specifically shared one of your experiences with guidance regarding hypnosis.

John Ells wrote on Mar 28^th, 2018 at 12:30pm:

Don't misunderstand

John ...

First, I honestly don't care about your instructions or corrections to me about Gateway and/or now Bruce's work.

My experience with Gateway does seem much different than yours. I have never been to TMI myself, but by simply using the Gateway freebies (recordings and instructions) on the website and Internet, I got results using Gateway materials which were supportive of non-physical experiences. My specific experience is that even these minor or partial Gateway materials (e.g., the freebies) were enough to begin with something beyond trance.

I do not know what you are doing with the Gateway Program materials which you have purchased. However, I can share that an online friend had the Gateway CD1. She was not able to manifest an OBE over a period of trying all sorts of stuff. I told her, since she had the Gateway CD1, that I would walk through her learning process of CD1 with her, step by step (e.g., because she could not in the past complete that on her own). As a working mom, she had only Saturdays available for practicing. So, I walked her through the materials (e.g., by finding a copy of the Gateway manual online) based on my own OBE's. In less than a month, she was successfully manifesting her own non-physical experiences.

So from my friend's OBE experiences and mine, I know that the Gateway program (even a partial version of the program like CD1) is more than merely hypnosis. It works (e.g., it is enough) to achieve or enter various focus levels of consciousness (e.g., as established by Monroe and friends). And it clearly teaches and provides much more than hypnosis (e.g., breathing, energy work, attaining various focus states, intention setting, and more).

So, no matter how you now might parse or justify your original statement about Gateway being merely hypnosis, I cannot agree with you. That is not my experience.

Thank you, I relocated the link.



Subtle Traveler wrote on Mar 29^th, 2018 at 11:19pm:

Recoverer 2 wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 10:19pm: I believe that hypnosis is not a trustworthy way to find out info about the aferlife. Hey Recoverer2 (Albert) ... Just wanted to first note that the link to your article got embedded within the quote from Rondele ... some people here might not understand that mishap. Also, I generally agree with you that hypnosis (by itself) is less reliable. I also think that it is fair to categorize it as a "suggestable state" (as held forth by Rondele). I like that each of you have mentioned 'our guidance' in your comments, and that you specifically shared one of your experiences with guidance regarding hypnosis.

ST wrote:

John ...

First, I honestly don't care about your instructions or corrections to me about Gateway and/or now Bruce's work.

ST, Et al.
    My...the Newton and John bashing!
    In reference to the above, I fail to see how or where I have been "instructing" you in any way.  If by "corrections" you mean my quoted "don't misunderstand;" then you've never felt the need to clarify yourself for possible misinterpretation?  Did you bother to read the rest of that post?  If you had, you'd have seen that I was agreeing with you about Gateway - after a point of course (more on that later).  In a later post, you also chime again with, "So, no matter how you now might parse or justify your original statement about Gateway being merely hypnosis, I cannot agree with you. That is not my experience."  Again, that was not my complete statement.  I do not mind elaboration, just ask.
    You ask what am I doing with the Gateway Program materials.  I've been using them for a little while now, although I was having OBEs for a time before Gateway came about I think - - a side effect of meditation for me.  I found Monroe's book (Journeys OOB - a blue hardback) when it first came out around the middle '70s.  I was thrilled at the time because my experiences mirrored his in most ways - - in that book anyway.  I loved that book, and it's still my favorite!  The Gateway CDs have been very helpful for perspective, but I actually hope to make it to TMI one day soon for the residential program. 
    Did in the earlier post, "We'll have to agree to disagree then," put you off?  Apparently, "All of Monroe's verbals, with the assistance of binaural beats, is basically trance induction," did too no doubt.
    First, if you didn't know, the statement in the first sentence is very common in disagreements between gentlemen in different circles.  It only signifies an impasse - - nothing more, nothing less.  Nothing personal.  People disagree all the time.
    The second sentence, and any other references in this regard, is not only based on my own experiences with hypnosis, but also based on a very good article published at TMI called Hemisync, Hypnosis, and how the mind works.
https://www.monroeinstitute.org/article/3700, if you care to read it.  It's a very good article, and at the risk of being accused of "instructing" anyone, I'll just say it describes the similarities of Hemisync and hypnosis as being objectively and subjectively very close in their inductions of trance and altered states.  I'm sure you'll draw your own conclusions, however.
    As far as my comments on "now Bruce's work," maybe it's the "takes some imagination to light the fires, so-to-speak?"  Or is it that his work "reminded me of Shamanism" that bothered you?  I do admit that I improvised just a tad with using "light the fires."   I was looking for "prime the pump," at the time.  Silly me for carelessly paraphrasing.  Anyway, Bruce wrote some on this in both his first (or) second book, and his guide book - - it actually cleared a lot of things up for me.   About my Bruce's work and Shamanism similarity comment, there certainly wasn't any disrespect towards Bruce with that.  Actually,  Shamanic drum beats have been used to create the same sorts of frequencies in the brain as those produced by Hemisync for a very long time; however, the beats are monaural instead of binaural--but very effective.  You don't even need headphones!  The retrievals done by Shamans - - even the earliest Shamans in history - - and those retievals done by Bruce are not (at all) dissimilar.  I do find this interesting, but that's just me.  If anyone wants, I can suggest further reading on this, but only if you're interested.
     With all that said, however, I seem to feel something much deeper going on here - - but I'm not going there.  In any case, if you, and others, do not like what I might say, might suggest, point to, etc., you really don't have to pay any attention to me whatsoever on a Forum such as this. If I offend anyone's beliefs, opinions, religion, inclinations, or experiences (which I don't think I have, but if so I sincerely apologize), I'm sure our gracious Moderator can effectively boot me from this Forum.  But I expect equal footing.  One does not have to post derogatory comments or opinions on what another might feel is revalent just to make some point.  Just because something hasn't been one person's experience doesn't mean it hasn't been someone else's.

Since you held forth above that I was derogatory in what I said, I took your criticism seriously and I went back and reviewed my comments here (e.g., derogatory meaning 'criticism without respect').

However, I found nothing derogatory in what I presented to you (or even others here). I have been respectful, and descriptively clear about what I agreed or disagreed with.

Hi John Ells,

No one needs the boot. 

I myself was going to post that I disagreed that hemi-sync is merely hypnosis but then I thought twice about it only because I don't scientifically know enough about hypnosis to talk in depth about it.  I agree that hemi-sync does the same thing, leads one into a trance state because that's its intended use... an altered state other than waking consciousness.  Thanks for posting a TMI link talking about it.  I'm interested in reading that.

And I am actually interested in the retrievals done by the shamans.  What books do you suggest?  I never realized it before you mentioned it, about the use of drum beats to produce the same altered state effect.  I had to empty out my storage unit these past few days, and I have been going through boxes of things I haven't seen in as much as a couple decades.  One of them was a cassette tape a pen pal had given me of this kind of drumming.  If I can find something to play it on, ha ha (I do have a cassette player!) it would be fun to listen to it again.  I remember at the time he gave me the tape (way back then) I thought what a weird thing to do, listen to drumming for meditation??  How bizarre.   ::)

Hi Subtle Traveler,

Are the Gateway CDs the "Wave 1, Wave 2" etc?  I think I have those.  If I can find them in one of my storage boxes!  I've never listened to them though.  Now I'm really motivated to get through those boxes!

Yes drumming has long been used to facilitate trance states (no citation). A bit hard to explain, a lot easier to experience. The shift in conscious awareness occurs when one's perspective moves from linear time to No Time - where all occurs from a single point.

I see it as training wheels. Once you get it, you get it is my experience. At some point it becomes as easy to shift without assistance. A very simple matter made harder by the belief that it cannot be achieved without outside action. There is no outside outside .....  :)

Vicky wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2018 at 12:39am:

Hi Subtle Traveler, Are the Gateway CDs the "Wave 1, Wave 2" etc?  I think I have those.  If I can find them in one of my storage boxes!  I've never listened to them though.  Now I'm really motivated to get through those boxes!

Hi Vicky ... I am smiling :) about your motivation ...

Yes. Wave i, Wave ii ... and up to Wave vi. Wave iii (according to a past hint by Patty Ray Avalon on her web site) is a good CD to prepare for an OBE. I think the track is called "free flow". While most of us just want to "get there" by skipping over seemingly unimportant detail, my understanding is that there is a usefulness to learning the entire series ... and then practicing and eventually knowing how to more innately move between the focus levels - especially between 12 and 21. I can add this ...

This is something that I am currently doing using a hemi-sync CD from Patty Ray Avalon (between focuses 12, 15 and 21). I eventually began hearing non-physical tones and music after practicing this. I first noticed this after meditating using hemi-sync, and then sitting at my home office desk. Without any sound in the room and no headphones, I began hearing music just back of my head. I also found that I could predict the next tone or pitch in the song ... like I was connected to and interacting with the music. I sometimes hum the tones as I do this. So, this process with hemi-sync (and some of Bruce's exercises) has seemingly brought forth a development of non-physical senses (which Bruce talks about in AKG). And, I am awake in my physical body during this experiences - NOT in trance - just C1 as Monroe called it.

Overall, I have found hemi-sync more nuanced than binaural beats. There is a lot to Gateway as a series ... but putting it all together and then learning these nuances (e.g., movement between vibrational levels) seems to require practice. So, it is my own experience that Gateway is clearly NOT strictly about trance or hypnosis ... it can facilitate much more.

My own Gateway recordings were on <gasp> cassette tape. May as well been player piano roll, it seems so long ago. I don't recall which is what any more but do recall there was one at the very end I got a lot of use from. Free Form or something like that.

Personally I found Bruce's Workbook recordings much more helpful at the time.

I can still hear Bruce's voice and Robert Monroe's voice quite clearly in my head.

My personal discovery after (successfully) completing the series was how the expectations of front-loading made the work. I mean, I was really excited to do the material, and when I found I'd mastered it I realized how unnecessary it all was (to me). I'd been doing it on my own without any books or guides for so long I didn't realize I held mastery before I started the series. Or to put it another way, personally I found the material to be ultimately detrimental to my goals because I was given to believe it was something I needed to learn. This was the impediment. I didn't need to learn how because I already knew how and held mastery before I started.

Upon much consideration and a couple edits (please disregard earlier versions), here is my best shot at communicating the experiences I hold with the TMI / Bruce / Other Similar Resource material:

Imagine coming across a course of study called: Becoming Awareness. We are awareness. Purchasing and using a Becoming Awareness course front loads an agreement we are not fully aware of our awareness that we are awareness.

What such a study may facilitate is our remembrance that we are awareness. Because, you know, that how we come into this world: we are taught that we must be taught. It may be the Becoming Awareness study triggers the remembrance of the full breadth of our Being.

The self-delusion of buying into the need to study something we don't believe we already hold becomes a barrier to achieving what we wish to experience.

Did the course material I undertook aid me? Um. It's a trick question. I didn't understand I didn't need the course material until I took the course. So in a way it helped when I fully remembered.

Thank you all for your understanding.  Maybe dementia is seeping in for my part.
If there was only one author/book on Shamanism that I could ever recommend to anyone it would be 'The Way of the Shaman,' by Michael Harner.   He's considered the world's authority on the subject.  There's a small write-up on him on Amazon, with his books.   

https://www.amazon.com/Michael-Harner/e/B00NTD5ECY/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1522678664&sr=8-1

Harner also has a very informative site that is interesting. 
http://shamanism.org

Another very good author is Sandra Ingerman.
 
Keep in mind that Shamanic 'journeys' (mostly in the past, but still presently in some circles) were/are done with the assistance of 'power plants,' such as the hallucinogenics Ayahuasca and Peyote.  There are strong arguments both for and against this practice; however, the authors I cited above, although not totally against such practice, are firm in their research that power plants are (not) needed for Shaman journeying.  Only the drum is needed.
Retrievals done by a Shamans for those he/she serves, aren't so much for helping the dead cross over as they are for healing - - although both are done.
You should be able to find some drumming online/YouTube Vicky.
Morrigan, did Bruce's recording come with your AKG?  I thought it was supposed to when I ordered it but no CD was with it.  It does have the script printed in the book, but I guess I'll have to look into ordering the voice. 
 
That's funny about the cassette.  I was in Best Buy a little while back and just for fun I asked a sales guy if they had any cassette players.  He had to go ask someone but never came back :)  I understand they're slowly phasing out CDs now too.  Everything is going to downloads.

I hope you all had a great holiday.

Hi John

My copy of AKG was from the first printing, so it came with the CD.

My current understanding is records are now back in demand. Vinyl. I owned a pretty sharp turntable "in the day".

Among one of the crowds I hang with (bass players), analog amplification is considered the holy grail of quality sound. Talking tube amplifiers that weigh 90+ pounds. A light, "portable" tube bass amp of a mere 50 watts rings in at 20 pounds. The larger view among bass purists is nothing less than a full tube rig with a 130+ pound speaker cab is the ideal.

All well and good if you have roadies. A large number of us downsize, if for no other reason, load-out. That is tearing down and carrying your rig to your car/van at whatever o'clock when the gig ends. And stairs. And rain. And room on stage. And age.

In the 70s it was all about hi-fi and now everyone wants that lo-fi 60s sound. In a way, I bought into that too, for this month I receive a bespoke bass that is created to make that mid-60s "thud" we associate with The Animals. My working bass of 39 years is hi-fi and I play a hi-fi rig. I can dial out the hi-fi to lo-fi, but I can't dial in hi-fi from lo-fi. Now I'll have both. Right tools for the job and all that.

As for me and records, CDs and such, I probably don't have the discerning ears I once had. A lifetime of wear and tear took its toll on things. And I'm happy not to move boxes and boxes of records.

Also personally fond of drums and drumming, but I would be then, wouldn't I? Because my job is a rhythmic conversation with harmonic articulation.

To me the coolest percussion instrument is the berimbau. It's like a bow with a cup at your belly that you strike. The pitch changes as you change the tension. It's very shamanic and has seen some inroads in some modern musical genres. But yeah, I love me some drumz. Because, as I noted elsewhere, I'm a drummer's metronome .....

I dig getting into the Zone  :D

Morrighan wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2018 at 6:09pm:

Hi John My copy of AKG was from the first printing, so it came with the CD. My current understanding is records are now back in demand. Vinyl. I owned a pretty sharp turntable "in the day". Among one of the crowds I hang with (bass players), analog amplification is considered the holy grail of quality sound. Talking tube amplifiers that weigh 90+ pounds. A light, "portable" tube bass amp of a mere 50 watts rings in at 20 pounds. The larger view among bass purists is nothing less than a full tube rig with a 130+ pound speaker cab is the ideal. All well and good if you have roadies. A large number of us downsize, if for no other reason, load-out. That is tearing down and carrying your rig to your car/van at whatever o'clock when the gig ends. And stairs. And rain. And room on stage. And age. In the 70s it was all about hi-fi and now everyone wants that lo-fi 60s sound. In a way, I bought into that too, for this month I receive a bespoke bass that is created to make that mid-60s "thud" we associate with The Animals. My working bass of 39 years is hi-fi and I play a hi-fi rig. I can dial out the hi-fi to lo-fi, but I can't dial in hi-fi from lo-fi. Now I'll have both. Right tools for the job and all that. As for me and records, CDs and such, I probably don't have the discerning ears I once had. A lifetime of wear and tear took its toll on things. And I'm happy not to move boxes and boxes of records. Also personally fond of drums and drumming, but I would be then, wouldn't I? Because my job is a rhythmic conversation with harmonic articulation. To me the coolest percussion instrument is the berimbau. It's like a bow with a cup at your belly that you strike. The pitch changes as you change the tension. It's very shamanic and has seen some inroads in some modern musical genres. But yeah, I love me some drumz. Because, as I noted elsewhere, I'm a drummer's metronome ..... I dig getting into the Zone  :D

Hi Morrighan.

So you play bass and drums?  That's great!   I gave all my vinyls to my son-in-law when I moved - - about a 3 foot stack of them.  He owns a small guitar shop, gives lessons, and has a band (southern rock).  I have an American Strat that I don't suck too bad awful much :), but only been playing it for about 7 years.  I actually prefer playing finger-style stuff on my acoustic, like Led Zeppelin's, 'I'm going to leave you baby,' or like Kansas' 'Dust in the wind.'  (Mark Knofler is my fingerpicking hero) The fingers are getting worse the older I get though.  I'm thinking about getting a vinyl string classical guitar instead.  But I love most everything '60s and early/middle' 70s.  The Animals were great. I was always a little partial to British bands, like the Yard Birds, Led Zeppelin, Clapton, Deep Purple, Cream.  Did like Hendrix a lot tho.  But yeah, the old tube amps are the best - - don't know squat about specs except that they need to be Marshall's and be big as a Buick. My big amp is a tiny Fender Mustang Mini because I live in condo :(  I'd like to learn bass and drums too.   They're both powerful instruments.
My ears have seen better days too.  That does change things drastically in music.  It just doesn't sound right any more. Too many years working around aircraft and rock concerts.  I wear a hearing aid in one ear and probably need one in the other.   I've worried in the past that this might affect the efficacy of Hemisync, but I wrote TMI about it and they said that as long as I had (some) hearing in both ears that it shouldn't.  I mainly can't hear the higher frequencies.   I know some hemisync recordings use a mix, or layers of frequencies, so do wonder if there might be something lost or out of range at times.  They seem effective however.   That was strange about the CD.  I guess I'll have to go online to find one.  I remember reading in the beginning of the book somewhere that the script was provided so the reader could make their own CD, but I'm like you, I'd rather listen to Bruce or Bob.  I don't want to listen to me, ugh! :)

John Ells, you should definitely order Bruce’s CDs!  I’m not just saying that to promote Bruce’s work.  He did a marvelous job recording the Guidebook exercises and they are definitely worth it. 

Subtle Traveler, I found a couple of my Gateway CDs, Wave III – Freedom and Wave IV Adventure.  Hmm...I thought I had them all, so I’ll have to keep looking.

And yeah I do have to agree with you again about your further explanation about hemi-sync being more than hypnosis.  What you added in Italics reminded me of my Theta experiences in my book.  I was as consciously awake and alert as what seemed like waking consciousness when I had those experiences and never felt any kind of lapse in my awareness. 


Morrighan, great analogy!

Thank you, Vicky. It took a long time and several edits to figure out how to explain.

I suspect many of us who are called to Afterlife Knowledge already have some experience somewhere in the field. You and I (Vicky) often speak of the deep desire for confirmation of our explorations. The Joe Friday "just the facts" with names, dates, and other verifiable infos. Getting your head around the deal these things are not what is important when we do this work takes a lot of doing.

As an illustrative example - and we all know stories are the bread and butter of engaging reading - here is my recollection of one client I worked with several years ago.

In connecting with her and her chief concern that brought her to me in the first place, a link with her (deceased) grandfather opened. He conveyed highly specific information that only she would have known. Yet her skepticism could not be abated. Nonetheless the following day she took a four hour drive to his grave site. Her own inner knowing "won".

Ah, the bass. Much that I may find it enjoyable, I don't play drums but I play time.

Would that weight and practicality not matter, I'd be all over an Ampeg SVT and 810 cabinet. 300 watts of analog "grind"!

Nothing I hate more than competing with a guitarist with a Les Paul and a Marshall stack. The rule of thumb is: I need 10 times the wattage of the guitarist to be heard properly. His 50 watt Marshall stack means I'd best be packing 500 watts on my end.

The holy grail for recorded bass is the venerable Ampeg B-15. That's 20 watts of pure Ampeg tone.

When I watch Noel Redding fiddle with his amp settings he's fiddling with a Marshall. It's not that Marshall was ever (or is now) a great name in bass amplification. It's what was available to British musicians. Importing an American Ampeg was extremely costly. Marshall was founded to provide an alternative for Europeans who wanted "the sound" but couldn't afford the Ampeg. Marshall was expensive in the States owing to the import costs. British bands used Vox and Marshall and American bands used Fender.

My rig in the early days was taller than me and consisted of two 15 inch drivers (speakers). It was a usable sound but not what I had in mind for myself. My axe is a 79 StingRay and it's all about the funk that was coming in around that time. A very distinct voice on that Ray .... completely different from the Fender even though Leo Fender designed my 'Ray. In seeking my new bass I looked for as "un-Fender" a tone as I could find. It's a semi-hollow body much like the Epiphone Rivioli Chas Chandler of The Animals played. In fact mine is voiced to match that sound.

I see my"story" about the grandfather who I spoke with is much lacking in the kind of detail that makes a book chapter.

That's how it is, I find. The actual work takes no time at all. Explaining what happened in a satisfactory manner takes a great deal more. I find this to be manifestly true with retrievals. A successful (or unsuccessful) retrieval takes, you know, like a couple seconds. Describing what happens in those couple seconds takes 5,000 words.

So a hemi-sync recording that takes thirty minutes to play is really all about some couple seconds of actual work. There's a lot of fol-de-rol about getting in that state of mind where it can be accomplished, and the wind-down to return to "normal" consciousness.

It was way back when, when I decided to use the techniques to enquire of a childhood friend who transitioned. As I was doing all my prep and relaxation and all, I got from my friend: hurry up! hurry up! I have to go! And (in the language of Robert Monroe) got the entire rote or thought ball in one single download and it was done. So now if I'm called to task, all I do is look. Much easier.

On the subject of drums, shamanism and time:

As one who plays time - which is a core function of the bass - time is revealed to be very elastic.

What I notice when I play time is how everything opens up when one shifts to what I call the Zero Point. This is where time is not moving forward in a linear fashion; it is where "time stands still". Shamanistic drumming facilities the shift of awareness to this point. Or is supposed to. I've no direct experience with the combination of shamanistic drumming and plants such as ayahusca so I can't speak to this directly.

What I see is drums are an aid, as is HemiSync etc to facilitate this state of expanded awareness without the aid of plants.

That said, I do not personally find such aids to be necessary to expanded awareness. All I do is look and state exactly what I see. Are all able to do this? I believe the answer is yes. But we have for our own reasons declined to disallow this in most circumstances.

Am I in a trance state when I play time? Sort, of, yes / no. It's about creating and there is a conversation going on. Conversations of both time and harmony.

I see in my own work the instrument is a means to unite two different "brains" that are present in my field. My left hand is the execution of the sacred geometry of music and my right hand is the articulation of it. It's really like two completely different processes coming together to make something that is greater than the sum of its parts.

Vicky wrote:
John Ells, you should definitely order Bruce’s CDs!  I’m not just saying that to promote Bruce’s work.  He did a marvelous job recording the Guidebook exercises and they are definitely worth it. 

Hi Vicky.
I checked and saw nothing on Amazon about the recordings, but found Bruce's site for selling them.  There is a 6 audio CD set and a single mp3 CD shown in the store.  The store has a notice that it's closed right now and to check back later.  I would imagine, but am just guessing, that there might be some reorganizing going on now since Bruce's transition/translation.   There was also a notice to leave a message, which I did, and someone would be back with me.  I messaged that there was no hurry as I have the book anyway.  I also asked if the mp3 was downloadable.  It looks like a fairly old site.  Mp3s are usually mostly downloaded now so maybe things are being restructured - - I remember you saying that you thought his books might be on Kindle soon too.  So anyway I am definitely in no rush as I have a lot going on myself at the moment.  I'll check back with them later if I don't hear from them first.

John Ells wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2018 at 6:41pm:

Vicky wrote: John Ells, you should definitely order Bruce’s CDs!  I’m not just saying that to promote Bruce’s work.  He did a marvelous job recording the Guidebook exercises and they are definitely worth it.  Hi Vicky. I checked and saw nothing on Amazon about the recordings, but found Bruce's site for selling them.  There is a 6 audio CD set and a single mp3 CD shown in the store.  The store has a notice that it's closed right now and to check back later.  I would imagine, but am just guessing, that there might be some reorganizing going on now since Bruce's transition/translation.   There was also a notice to leave a message, which I did, and someone would be back with me.  I messaged that there was no hurry as I have the book anyway.  I also asked if the mp3 was downloadable.  It looks like a fairly old site.  Mp3s are usually mostly downloaded now so maybe things are being restructured - - I remember you saying that you thought his books might be on Kindle soon too.  So anyway I am definitely in no rush as I have a lot going on myself at the moment.  I'll check back with them later if I don't hear from them first.

Very good, John Ells.  Your assumptions about the restructuring of the store and the way things will be sold/bought are correct!  I don't really have any official word or time frame on any of it yet, but as soon as I do I will make an announcement.

Please do help remind me, I would appreciate it.  I'm glad you are in no rush. 

:)