I’ve done my stuff.  I’ve researched and contemplated all I found.  Then out of the blue recently I got a big surprise about something I had felt comfortable with for a long time –  spirituality.

For a very long time I felt persuaded that experiences during life in-the-body enhanced the rate of  personal spiritual progress.  It’s what I thought spiritual guides had taught us. Nobody provided an alternative or at least I didn’t recognise it if they did.

The words we use may mean different things to each of us.  In a similar way we have different ideas about the way we came into being, both as spirit individuals and as humans.  I’ve always thought we progressed spiritually towards a state of near spiritual perfection before we reach our end as individuals - progression from where we are spiritually now to a point where no further progress can be made. Recently all that changed. 

I still see us as from the source and identically similar to the source.  When I say ‘us’ I’m referring to our ‘spirit selves’ our individual but spiritually-identical forms;  identical ‘sparks’ of creative energy that animate every kind of personal existence.  Those ‘sparks’ were spiritually perfect when they left the source to experience life as individuals and that spiritual perfection never changes.  They don’t need to progress spiritually - they are already spiritually perfect.  And when I refer to ‘they’ I’m actually meaning ‘us’, the spiritual us. 

We each are individuated sparks of that divine source, eternally spiritually-perfect but appearing as something less.  Isn’t that the grandest of illusions? 

I agree (or maybe it's more that I hope that it's the case).

If our spiritual selves were all created by a perfect God, then it stands to reason we too must be perfect...meaning the essence of our beings.

The notion that multiple physical lives are necessary to obtain a state of perfection doesn't make sense. I suppose if we are all living out multiple lives in timeless dimensions then maybe so, but that's above my pay grade. I need to limit my logic to this one planet and accept that time for this discussion is linear.

Therefore what we do or don't do is not critical to our spiritual selves. They remain perfect and unsullied. How can it be anything else? How can a child of the ghetto, with only drug dealers as his role model, who steals and maybe kills, be treated any differently than a child from a loving family who leads an exemplary life? It doesn't compute.

R

Yes, the illusion is the physical framework we are currently temporarily in.  Once we leave this physical plane we see things more clearly and accurately for what they really are and for the purpose they served us. 

My piece suggested that the illusion is that we choose lives incarnate to enhance the rate of our spiritual progress - when all along our spirits are eternally spiritually-perfect. 

We experience lives incarnate for other reasons.

mac wrote on Dec 18^th, 2017 at 1:13am:

My piece suggested that the illusion is that we choose lives incarnate to enhance the rate of our spiritual progress - when all along our spirits are eternally spiritually-perfect.  We experience lives incarnate for other reasons.

At the beginning we only think we are perfect.

In actual fact isn't the reality is that we we are in the physical plane because we need evolving until we are ready for that next step.

Nobody can be truly perfect but we be can evolved enough until we are ready for that next step whatever that next step is.

But we are unable to judge what that evolved enough is.

We were born with an innate. The innate is basically the dna  (if that is the right word) that defines who we are in this life. We do have to evolve accordingly in our imperfection.

Life prepares us and that is not an easy task. Preparing is for that next step.

This illusion of the physical is to educate us further and that will take quite some time as growth is a slow process.

withinn wrote on Dec 18^th, 2017 at 10:30am:

mac wrote on Dec 18th, 2017 at 1:13am: My piece suggested that the illusion is that we choose lives incarnate to enhance the rate of our spiritual progress - when all along our spirits are eternally spiritually-perfect.  We experience lives incarnate for other reasons. withinn wrote on Dec 18th, 2017 at 10:30am: At the beginning we only think we are perfect. At the beginning of what? withinn wrote on Dec 18th, 2017 at 10:30am: In actual fact isn't the reality is that we we are in the physical plane because we need evolving until we are ready for that next step. In actual fact the eternal spirit-form, the form that is the 'real' us, is spiritually perfect.  We're of source, from source and identically-similar to source.  The apparent evolving it appears we need is nothing of the sort.  Hence there's no need for a 'qualifying level' of spiritual evolvement before we move from one dimension to the next. Other values obtain. withinn wrote on Dec 18th, 2017 at 10:30am: Nobody can be truly perfect but we be can evolved enough until we are ready for that next step whatever that next step is. absolutely correct  - no body is perfect.  We move from incarnation to incarnation for wholly different reasons, wholly different values applying. withinn wrote on Dec 18th, 2017 at 10:30am: But we are unable to judge what that evolved enough is. Then just who could judge better than us?  Our 'real' selves, our spirit-form selves (for want of a better description) KNOW what the deal is but have chosen to experience existences outside that total understanding.  The possible reasons for that are another conversation. withinn wrote on Dec 18th, 2017 at 10:30am: We were born with an innate. The innate is basically the dna  (if that is the right word) that defines who we are in this life. We do have to evolve accordingly in our imperfection.   The word innate is an adjective.. [quote author=150B160A0B0C0C620 link=1513543306/4#4 date=1513607446]Life prepares us and that is not an easy task. Preparing is for that next step. This illusion of the physical is to educate us further and that will take quite some time as growth is a slow process.

I have been trotting out a similar crock since my awakening to matters of the spirit over 30 years ago.  Recent events revealed my error.  It was quite a shock let me say!

at the beginning?

are we sure what we don't know about the beginning? or do we know?.....(actually It is not for us to not know)  the beginning whatever that is is when It all began whatever, whenever or wherever that is.  In fact nobody knows.. probably God has forgotten also. As the beginning was only a memory of whatsits or incompletes.

If the eternal spirit form were perfect we wouldn't need to evolve. We were born imperfect on purpose as for the eternal spirit form that was never perfect as that is something that holographs whom we are and whom we are not.

The Source is God or that is what we are told. God is not perfect either why do you think What got us here to mess out with education, experience, etc.

"""existing in, belonging to, or determined by factors present in an individual from birth : native, inborn

    innate behavior"""

the innate maybe an adjective but it that which is responsible for the directions or mis-directions in life. The innateness is pre-programmed for our evolve-ment as mentioned.

We are here in our mess to define what is needed to be defined at this present moment only.. the next instant we  might have similar blueprints but programmed differently or maybe similarly.

And this website is named Afterlife Knowledge...???  ::)

I'm wondering if anyone is actually reading what I write or is my English-English too hard to follow?

mac wrote on Dec 18^th, 2017 at 10:00pm:

And this website is named Afterlife Knowledge...???  ::) I'm wondering if anyone is actually reading what I write or is my English-English too hard to follow?

In actual fact we are talking about the after life. In more an indirect manner.

Indirect I mean to talk from the subconscious is like talking a foreign language to some people.

Many prefer the weather then to topics dealing with the Inner.

It isn't your English; it is how we converse from that Inner in this forum.

But the catch here is: isn't this a forum and website dealing with the Inner? Therefore those who read topics in this forum and website should understand the after life is a topic for THIS community... so join in and get a taste for traveling to the subconscious area known as the after life.

Isn't this what Bruce has taught?

Perhaps you could humor me by translating from whatever inner-language you are using - subconscious if you wish -  to a conventional one using simple sentences.

Surely Bruce didn't advocate you should be inscrutable?

withinn wrote on Dec 18^th, 2017 at 10:16pm:

[quote author=5E5250330 link=1513543306/7#7 date=1513648857]And this website is named Afterlife Knowledge...???  ::) should understand the after life is a topic for THIS community... so join in and get a taste for traveling to the subconscious area known as the after life. Isn't this what Bruce has taught?

I didn't know Bruce but I'd be shocked if he taught that conversations should be unfathomable to those uninitiated in community-speak.

mac wrote on Dec 18^th, 2017 at 10:22pm:

Perhaps you could humor me by translating from whatever inner-language you are using - subconscious if you wish -  to a conventional one using simple sentences. Surely Bruce didn't advocate you should be inscrutable?

"mac" I am shocked at your responses.

What is this whole website and forum about?

Bruce taught about the after life. Therefore the after life is our Inner or subconscious.

Bruce taught how to use this Inner or After Life by doing something called partnered exploration.

This community, the forum here, involves the gathering of those whom use this partnered exploration or going within and doing things accordingly. In this community this experience of partnered exploration is shared.

This is what Bruce taught is the use of this Inner to be expressive within this community. This would seem foreign to others because the Inner is a world of nonsense. That is the outsiders problem not to to those here.

Now I am shocked because of what you call the unfathomable. Are you unfathomable? or?

The subconscious is is an expression all on it's own. Community-speak? What community?

"mac" one day the subconscious you will realize for what it is and not community-speak nor unfathomable.

I will give you a hint:
'a picture is worth a 1,000 words.'

Bruce gave us a way to explore the Inner.. use it wisely.

Hi withinn ...

You are right on track ... "the inner" and "subconscious" are useful terms for pointing to how we access knowledge of the afterlife. Jesus and Buddha both practiced and taught this. And yes, Bruce did too. As I think about it, I can imagine Bruce and Jesus probably hanging out and smoking a cigarette or maybe having a cold beer.

So, what you are saying seems clear to me. And, interestingly enough your comment fits in well with what Vicky has held forth here (e.g., about how humans experience the physical world in illusion). For example, the Hindu religion (e.g., another inner practice) has a saying that "the mind is maya". When translated, maya = illusion.

Again, you are pointing in a useful direction.  :)

withinn wrote on Dec 19^th, 2017 at 12:13am:

mac wrote on Dec 18th, 2017 at 10:22pm: Perhaps you could humor me by translating from whatever inner-language you are using - subconscious if you wish -  to a conventional one using simple sentences. Surely Bruce didn't advocate you should be inscrutable? withinn wrote on Dec 19th, 2017 at 12:13am: "mac" I am shocked at your responses. What is this whole website and forum about? What?  You're saying this whole website and forum supposed to be inscrutable?  I'm shocked you're so parochial! withinn wrote on Dec 19th, 2017 at 12:13am: Bruce taught about the after life. Therefore the after life is our Inner or subconscious. Bruce taught how to use this Inner or After Life by doing something called partnered exploration. Fine - so he didn't expect anyone outside of your little gathering even to be able to speak to you? withinn wrote on Dec 19th, 2017 at 12:13am: This community, the forum here, involves the gathering of those whom use this partnered exploration or going within and doing things accordingly. In this community this experience of partnered exploration is shared. withinn wrote on Dec 19th, 2017 at 12:13am: This is what Bruce taught is the use of this Inner to be expressive within this community. This would seem foreign to others because the Inner is a world of nonsense. That is the outsiders problem not to to those here.   outsiders?  Are you aware what you're saying?  outsiders? [quote author=36283529282F2F410 link=1513543306/11#11 date=1513656836]Now I am shocked because of what you call the unfathomable. Are you unfathomable? or? The subconscious is is an expression all on it's own. Community-speak? What community? "mac" one day the subconscious you will realize for what it is and not community-speak nor unfathomable. I will give you a hint: 'a picture is worth a 1,000 words.' Bruce gave us a way to explore the Inner.. use it wisely.

I've heard similar stuff before - brrrrr - is this what you guys mean by AfterLife Knowledge - brrrrr!!!!  I'll be happier to leave you to your endeavors than you'll be happy to see me leave. 

shidad

Subtle Traveler wrote on Dec 19^th, 2017 at 12:22am:

Hi withinn ... You are right on track ... "the inner" and "subconscious" are useful terms for pointing to how we access knowledge of the afterlife. Jesus and Buddha both practiced and taught this. And yes, Bruce did too. As I think about it, I can imagine Bruce and Jesus probably hanging out and smoking a cigarette or maybe having a cold beer. So, what you are saying is clear. Do not let others convince you otherwise or accept their criticism about how you are using the English language. Interestingly enough your comment fits in well with what Vicky has held forth here (e.g., about how humans experience the physical world in illusion). For example, the Hindu religion (e.g., another inner practice) has a saying that "the mind is maya". When translated, maya = illusion. So, withinn, again you are on the right track. 8-) And, your clarity is bright enough that I gotta wear shades  8-)

shidad :o

"mac' you can twist words and so on whatever you want.

Inscrutable is your word only.

I have spoken subconsciously on purpose and got nowhere.

So it is best to ignore what you have said as you seem to be..

Well I will leave that unsaid and leave you in your own world.

Sad really how some can twist words.

In this forum at least we can honor another's endeavors despite any opposing thoughts one have.

Mac,

Your replies in this thread are ok to a point but they continue to slide downhill until they just crash and burn at #13 and #14.  These are inappropriate and antisocial and infringe the posting rules and guidelines.  They serve nothing else but to be a good example of what not to do.  Please consider this a warning that if you want to continue posting, you need to do so in an appropriate manner. 

Mac and anyone else who isn’t aware of our posting rules, please read them over and make sure you have a good understanding of what they mean and why they are in place to keep these forums a nice, friendly place for all who wish to converse and share their opinions. 

Disagreements are going to happen; it’s not expected for everyone to share the same beliefs and opinions.  But comments and posts that are rude, antisocial, and serve no good purpose are against the rules because they do nothing else but lead to bad feelings and more arguments.  I have to take action before things get out of hand, or otherwise people come here seeing arguments and they think it’s ok to do the same. 

Thank you to whomever used the Peer Moderator form to bring this to my attention.

Vicky

Thank you Vicky. Before you spoke I reminded myself to read the guidelines.

Back to Illusions.

The Physical we live now is an enigma. Some say the physical is a hologram, but who can actually prove that? If this Physical area is a hologram then truly the Physical is an illusion.

Out of all this there apparently is an Inner or some area within us that seems to exist. This existence of the Inner is agreed to by various ways such as near death experiences, obe's, and the like.  There is a problem both with the Physical and the Inner both are mind produced somehow.

The physical is the Conscious area and the Inner is the Subcons.....

A break interrupted this thought.

What came about in my break was that the Illusion is of little importance.. well sort of.

What is important is something else that has arrived in this thread, the Subconscious or the Inner as they are commonly called.

Humankind has evolved or maybe those who have evolved are changing what we think and what we do.

At one point Humankind lived in this world in a way different then today.

The industrial revolution came along and Humankind changed. Words such as Subconscious, Conscious, alchemy, and so on started to appear. Humankind awoke a sleeping dragon so to speak.

At one point this sleeping dragon was basically dormant. If the few awoke this dormancy then those few were disciplined, usually severely.

Over the time Humankind had awoken the possibilities of that which is within us. That area of the unknown.

Along came The Monroe Institute with opening new expansion some may preferred have been left alone.

Bruce Moen (retrievals); Joseph McMoneagle (remote viewing); Joe Gallenberger (SynCreation); and others were the results of TMI (The Monroe Institute).

Also, many others assisted and/or contributed to TMI.

(too many to name the others)

What TMI and other contributors did was to open new fields for exploration into this unknown, the Inner or Subconscious.

Many tools to explore this unknown are now available for the evolved because of TMI and those others who are the pioneers of this new area of exploration (of this unknown).

There is a backlash to all this and that backlash is the fact that there many who deny this unknown to even exist.

If we can remember what we ate yesterday morning then the Subconscious or an Inner exists. To deny memory is a waste of time.

Humankind has evolved that is a known. To get stuck in an Outer reality is ok to a degree, but to get stuck in this Outer reality only causes issues if memories of something over ride our perceptions.

Humankind must move on and evolve that is what Humankind will always do. Humankind is now exploring this unknown. Those who deny and challenge will only reinforce the existence of this unknown.

What is called the Subconscious or Inner is here to stay as those areas have always been here. So Humankind has no choice to evolve as that is known. So this unknown is being explored and so what of it? That is life we have no choice to explore as that is an expression we must live with. We must evolve. If we don't evolve then we live in pain.

My grasp of this is done accordingly. I speak of the little I know and if issues are with this so be it as I am only bringing forth what I know, accordingly. I live in a westernized mindset and my intake is as it is.