As some of you might have figured, I have made attempts to learn about the afterlife through my own experiences.

Yet, I'm not afraid to learn from others. I consider what near death experiencers, Out of body explorers, and spirit message receivers have to say.

Consider the Disk viewpoint. I believe that this viewpoint is true not only because of what my experiences, spirit messages received, intuition and intelligence tell me, but also because of what sources I consider credible have to say.

I have read 4 NDE accounts that seem credible, and each of them state something that relates to the Disk way of viewing our greater selves (different terminology is used).

Bruce Moen and Robert Monroe are examples of non-physical explorers that have made contact with their Disk in a way that seems credible to me.

Sometimes verifications can come in interesting ways. For example, Bruce's Joshua experience. In his first book "Voyages into the Unknown" he wrote that he was reading a magazine and saw the name "Joshua" where the name "Marsha" was actually located. Later on he found that Joshua was a fellow Disk member that needed to be retrieved.

If it seems strange that Bruce could see "Joshua" instead of "Marsha," our higher self/oversoul/Disk/I-there is able to interact with our body-based selves in such a way. Such level of being can also play a role in our dream life and non-physical experiences such as OBEs.

Some people might be opposed to finding out about higher levels of their being, because they might be concerned about their privacy. Because of numerous experiences I have had and what makes sense to me and feels accurate, I don't have a problem with my Disk and even higher levels of being having an awareness of my life including some of my embarrassing moments, because I know that these levels of awareness aren't judgmental and they aren't separate from me.

If a person wants to make contact with higher levels of his being as much as possible, then he needs to become willing to become aware of higher parts of himself.

I don't view myself as some isolated warrior type who is beyond learning from anyone else. I have learned from some of the things people have written on this forum. I believe that the more we find out that we are all one, the more we understand about how much we can rely on and learn from each other.

There are parts of our greater selves that have acquired knowledge that is based on what is true, and it is okay to become aware of such knowledge.

If someone claims that he is beyond learning from others, I wonder if he lacks an understanding of how connected everything is, and that our minds are an essential part of the learning process.

As the original post is clearly directed at me (or at least in my general direction), none responds to date until now. Oft there is wisdom in silence. There is also wisdom in the knowledge of how and when to respond properly.

These observations I share here are the direct result of my own experience and are meant to be understood literally and metaphorically.

It's another time path, one that is present and forever and now. For my sister and her friends are playing jazz on Friday night in the family living room. Playing jazz, the real thing, piano and drums and upright bass and saxophone and probably a trumpet. High school music class instruments. And it is my resolve to play as well.

This is all that is required. Nothing more.

And despite many teachers - many of whom are regarded even today as masters - it is I who is the master of myself. I am my own best teacher. I am my only teacher. It is I and no one else.

For all I need do is play.

Those who have gone before me are not me. Those who may come after me are not me. I don't give a broken popsicle stick splinter about them, what they do, the lives they lead or the work they've done.

What they teach me is how to teach myself. And it is done. The teacher-student relationship: UNPLUG.

As I sit down to play, I am both and none. I am the metapoint of the two and gone beyond beyond and UNPLUGGED.

I observe I shift from this metapoint to the observer of the observer and let the music play me.

Teacher? Nyet. That's the old way and the old has no meaning where I reside. I play or I talk, and I choose to play. What I create is mine and mine to share. I take full responsibility for my creations. Teacher? That time is no more. UNPLUGGED.

Morrighan:

You were an inspiration for my starting this thread, but I didn't write it with the expectation that you would be interested in it.

Before you started taking part on this forum with name of Morrighan, I was aware of people who seem to believe that they are beyond receiving help from anybody. It wasn't until I read some of the comments you have made, that I decided to speak about this.

We can never unplug from the Oneness, therefore, we can never take full responsibility for anything we do. We can stick our tongues at the rest of the Oneness, and say we don't need it, but eventually we'll need to drop that game.

Even if time is simultaneous, that doesn't mean that soul evolution doesn't have a linear progression. Therefore, until we are "actually" at the end of our soul evolution, there are beings that are more evolved and wiser than us, and there is nothing wrong whatsoever with learning from them.

Even after I reach the point in my spiritual evolution where I am at one with God and all beings that are with him, I'll still be humble about the fact that God's greater being existed before my uniqueness was created, and therefore, I am not the Alpha and the Omega.

I am weary of anybody who speaks as if they are beyond having a humble and grateful attitude towards anyone. You are not the creator of this universe.

Morrighan,

Regarding the popsicle stick splinter. Is there more to it?

For whatever reason, my mind wants to make up a story about the popsicle.

Not that it is your problem. Totally my problem. But, just wondered why that particular image.

I like the concept of play. To just take some random thing, and make light of it.

Well, another thing. What color is the popsicle? If I just knew that, I might be able to imagine the flavor. These are the things that are important for me.

I found the popsicle stick splinter by the swing set Bruce uses in his guidebook. I think the popsicle was blue, for blue popsicles are the most mysterious.

Ah, yes, blue is the most mysterious. But somehow satisfying. Little things can bring a lot of pleasure in life...hurrah for that. :)

When my mom was in hospice care at home a few years back I was interested to find out what gave her comfort. She took the most exquisite pleasure each morning for a while in just a small amount of hot green tea. She craved it, asked for it, though she did not, in her previous life as it was, have this particular kind of craving. Each day, it was something she could enjoy upon waking, and then she would drift back to sleep.

One day she woke up wanting coffee. I brought it to her, and she complained that "they" took too long to bring it. 15 minutes (!) she said....

At one point she thought someone was asking her for a cigarette, and pointed to a nonexistent object in the room, saying, I think there are more cigarettes in the case.

One day she was sure she was supposed to go to a hair appointment.

What I find interesting about all of this is that it was those simple pleasures in life that seemed to linger with her as she departed this world. I can see these moments now as the fond memories that they are. And that is surprising.

Surprising, kind of like a blue popsicle.

@Recoverer 2: Interest you in a blue popsicle?

"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly.

Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual."

Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.

I find all that is necessary is doing what is mine to do.

"I am Queen of the domain of MySelf.
I am able to respond in all situations from the knowledge of who I am....
All that which is outside me remains outside me.
That which I choose to let in I own and acknowledge."

I like blue popsicles. The dog ate my memory. The observer is your being observing the state of your embodied nature.

"Yes indeed, here we are! At St. Alfonzo's Pancake Breakfast where I stole the margarine" https://youtu.be/yzfzsKENCbU

If it is okay for Victor Frankl to talk, I suppose it is okay for other people to talk. I doubt that Jesus is opposed to meditation.

To me spiritual growth is mainly about getting closer to God (I don't mean "an old man in the sky").  If we have the attitude that there is no one we can feel love, humility, gratitude and loyalty towards, not even our Creator, our spiritual growth might get limited for a while, no matter how good we believe we are at having no concepts and being self reliant. A wave in an ocean can ignore the ocean it came from for only so long.

I have found that spiritual growth is more about being open to God's presence, than about being able to see targets. I'd rather experience divine love, peace and wisdom, than view a target.




rondele wrote on Jul 8^th, 2017 at 10:46am:

"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.

Recoverer 2 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2017 at 12:26pm:

I have found that spiritual growth is more about being open to God's presence, than about being able to see targets. I'd rather experience divine love, peace and wisdom, than view a target.

Is a forum for afterlife knowledge an optimal space for these intended experiences? Much of what is discussed here concerns contact with individuals who are no longer embodied, and techniques to do so.

I believe that opening one's heart to divine levels of being is primary, techniques are secondary.

I do not believe that God is a dictator like being who demands worship, but I do believe he is the source of everything, and has figured out a way so Souls can reach the most wonderful way of existence possible, if they choose it.  Just as I feel gratitude towards my biological parents for making my existence in this world possible and being good parents, I feel gratitude towards God for making my existence as a Soul possible,  and for providing me with the possibility of a wonderful way of existence.

Morrighan, sometimes you make statements about how you are beyond needing a teacher, and about how you have found out about techniques and other things that are beyond what others have found. So in some ways, you present yourself as if you are some sort of master. Yet, you don't seem to understand something as basic as having humble feelings towards a being such as God, that makes your existence possible. Therefore, I am concerned that some people might be misled by you. So I started this thread to express a way of viewing things that differs from the approach you sometimes represent.

This subject reminds me of how some Eastern gurus present themselves. They state that everything is just pure awareness, manifested existence is just an illusion, they know themselves as pure awareness, so they are supposedly beyond everything, even God, who according to their way of thinking is a part of Maya, the illusion of manifested existence.

The fact of the matter is that if God hadn't created their souls in the first place, it would not be possible for them to make the claim that they are beyond everything, including God. Their way of thinking shows how confused people can become if they don't consider the entire picture in an accurate way. When they dismiss all of manifested existence as nothing but illusion, without their acknowledging it they also dismiss their own uniqueness, yet they seek to receive admiration from their followers as if they are a specific individual. This is the sort of thing that takes place when a person is more interested in standing out as some sort of (supposed) spiritual superstar, than they are in serving that from which they come.

Perhaps God has purposely set things up so we have the freewill to choose him. We will be able to exercise our free will in a way that is truly beneficial, when we have the wisdom to do so. Such wisdom includes understanding that God is a wonderful friend who has made our existence possible, and our souls will be truly fulfilled only after we rejoin him.  When we play the game of being a Soul that supposedly doesn't need the help of others, not even God, we don't ourselves a favor, or the people we influence to move down the same path.



Morrighan wrote on Jul 8^th, 2017 at 12:56pm:

Recoverer 2 wrote on Jul 8th, 2017 at 12:26pm: I have found that spiritual growth is more about being open to God's presence, than about being able to see targets. I'd rather experience divine love, peace and wisdom, than view a target. Is a forum for afterlife knowledge an optimal space for these intended experiences? Much of what is discussed here concerns contact with individuals who are no longer embodied, and techniques to do so.

I forgot to mention something that I thought was so classic, later. A couple of days before she passed, my little dog got into the room and got onto the hospital bed we had obtained, lying right up next to her on her right side. I found her there, beside my mom, just lying there quietly.

She (my dog) had not been allowed into the room recently, because my mom had not requested her in quite some time, having spent a couple of weeks withdrawing from any stimulus.

That was, of course, a sign. Don't think the signs will be impossible to see. They are right there. So, no need to panic, life proceeds on its trajectory despite our own opinions.

Albert, you are quite perceptive. There's really no substance. It only appears that way.

R

Roger, I'm just letting you know that I read your post.


rondele wrote on Jul 8^th, 2017 at 3:06pm:

Albert, you are quite perceptive. There's really no substance. It only appears that way. R

Truly here we have the substance of why I gave this thread wide berth. Tends to get personal and I've little patience thereof.

First up, and most importantly, is there are blue popsicles for any who so desire. Your life paths are your own and I do not / will not interfere.

Next is a reminder the mirror is polished.

And in this, a nudge: it may be time for human consciousness to move on. Some explorers here feel this. A new level of commitment is required in the interspheres. We are changing our attention. The mirror is polished.

Have we not come here to explore, to play, to discover? That I come here to report on my journey might be good news to some. To others, to those who wish to remain in the old ways, I can make no account.

For I know who I am and none will ever tell me who I must be for them. Many a time on this very board I state: go look for yourself. Who has done so or who will is none of my concern. If what I report doesn't exist in your books or your teachings then you are free to please yourself as you see fit.

Morrighan:

Regarding getting personal, I did not name you when I started this thread. Once you included yourself in the conversation, I didn't feel as if I had much choice but to state what I believe.

Regarding "old ways", yes, God is much older than any of us, so I include him when I think of my spirituality. I'm grateful to learn from him what he has to teach me, and for his grace.

Please not to take me for a fool, Albert.

seagullresting wrote on Jul 8^th, 2017 at 2:15pm:

I forgot to mention something that I thought was so classic, later. A couple of days before she passed, my little dog got into the room and got onto the hospital bed we had obtained, lying right up next to her on her right side. I found her there, beside my mom, just lying there quietly. She (my dog) had not been allowed into the room recently, because my mom had not requested her in quite some time, having spent a couple of weeks withdrawing from any stimulus. That was, of course, a sign. Don't think the signs will be impossible to see. They are right there. So, no need to panic, life proceeds on its trajectory despite our own opinions.

Well seen.

Morrighan:

I'm not certain of what you mean by not taking you for a fool--I could've said what I thought on another thread, but I didn't want to change the subject of an existing thread, so I started this thread.

Perhaps somebody might be interested in a reading a perspective that basically contends that even evolved people and spirits can learn from others, without being inferior in some way. As far as I'm concerned, not being willing to learn from others is an ego trip. A person really paints his or herself into a corner with such an approach. Sometimes we need someone other than our self to show us a perspective we aren't likely to consider for ourselves.

Why do you write posts? Possibly because you expect people to learn from you. Yet, you believe that you are beyond learning from others. I've put a lot of time and effort into my spiritual growth, but there is no way I am going to act like I am beyond learning from others. If a person believes that he or she is beyond learning from others, I don't think I'll try to learn from that person. I don't want to paint myself into the same corner that person has painted his or her self into. You are just one small leaf on a very big tree, and that tree existed long before you existed.


Morrighan wrote on Jul 8^th, 2017 at 5:11pm:

Please not to take me for a fool, Albert.

Last time I saw so much sophistry in such a small space, Albert, it collapsed in upon itself and became a black hole.

Morrighan:

Let's just agree to disagree, okay?


Morrighan wrote on Jul 8^th, 2017 at 7:46pm:

Last time I saw so much sophistry in such a small space, Albert, it collapsed in upon itself and became a black hole.

That you in such magnanimity, Albert, generously permit me to disagree to be told who I am and how I must behave? Truly, I am agog at such courtesy.

And in this exchange may be observed what occurs when a belief system is presumed to trump all. The thesis in the original post - and repeated without major variation - makes no allowance for counterpoint. And in this can be perceived a retriever's difficulties with hollow heavens and other belief system territories.

I was hoping the topic could move in a different direction, and people could put more of their own direct experiences here. If it is okay to learn from others why don't we do so?

There are so many directions in which this or any topic could move if forum members could just let go of the need to prove how right they are.

My contribution here was along the lines of appreciating the spirit of "play" and also contributing my direct experience with a family member in hospice care. Anyone who studies the subject will realize that my experience supports many others all the way to this day. What I mean is, my later repeated dreams of my late mom followed these experiences in a sequence which has meaning and a reasonable process.

If it is okay to learn from others we can also learn unexpected things from unexpected sources.

If you want to let go of a belief system it only takes one door. I guess it is up to us to choose to walk out that door and into the unknown, wherever and whenever we do.

What I put forth is more subtle, apparently.

I am who teaches me. Strictly on the lines of retrievals: one learns by doing. No sum of well-intentioned instructions / guidance substitutes for experience. There is no teacher with any sum of experience who can magically transfer experience and skill to me. Do or do not.

There comes a day in our live we leave school. If our teachers were good we left with the tools to go as far as we wish. More accurately: if the student is good ....

What's flawed, I find, is not the learning process but the student teacher relationship, and remaining in the teacher-student relationship. To me, the entire belief system that anyone outside us knows more than we do is odious. There is no outside outside. We are the ones we've been waiting for.

There was a professor in grad school who was an absolute terror. Our class was comprised of seven hand-picked students from the whole of the student body. Admission to the program was awful. Completing the program was pure hell.

About a week before the program's conclusion the professor took us all out to lunch on his dime. You are colleagues now, he says.

And so we reach equity with our professor. We ceased to be students that day. We were conferred with the responsibility to go forward and create. Not hang around school. Go out and do what we intend to do. To create.

We are done with our teachers when we take the mantle of equity. For me this means I hold equity with every teacher I ever had. The difference is I went out into the world and did. That does not mean I stopped learning. It means I stopped learning from them, or looking outside myself for enlightenment or who knows whut.  It can be a rude awakening when the student of spirituality discovers his teacher kicks his dog, yes?

No more teachers, no more books, no more teacher's dirty looks.

Morrighan:

Hopefully you aren't trying to teach anyone when you tell them "no more teachers."

Regarding "no outside" God isn't outside of us, and neither is anyone else we might be able to learn from. When waves of an ocean bump into each other, it is okay if they learn from each other. There is no reason to puff ourselves up, as if we are beyond learning from other waves and the source of all waves.

A truly independent person understands the value of learning from others.






Morrighan wrote on Jul 9^th, 2017 at 9:56am:

What I put forth is more subtle, apparently. I am who teaches me. Strictly on the lines of retrievals: one learns by doing. No sum of well-intentioned instructions / guidance substitutes for experience. There is no teacher with any sum of experience who can magically transfer experience and skill to me. Do or do not. There comes a day in our live we leave school. If our teachers were good we left with the tools to go as far as we wish. More accurately: if the student is good .... What's flawed, I find, is not the learning process but the student teacher relationship, and remaining in the teacher-student relationship. To me, the entire belief system that anyone outside us knows more than we do is odious. There is no outside outside. We are the ones we've been waiting for. There was a professor in grad school who was an absolute terror. Our class was comprised of seven hand-picked students from the whole of the student body. Admission to the program was awful. Completing the program was pure hell. About a week before the program's conclusion the professor took us all out to lunch on his dime. You are colleagues now, he says. And so we reach equity with our professor. We ceased to be students that day. We were conferred with the responsibility to go forward and create. Not hang around school. Go out and do what we intend to do. To create. We are done with our teachers when we take the mantle of equity. For me this means I hold equity with every teacher I ever had. The difference is I went out into the world and did. That does not mean I stopped learning. It means I stopped learning from them, or looking outside myself for enlightenment or who knows whut.  It can be a rude awakening when the student of spirituality discovers his teacher kicks his dog, yes? No more teachers, no more books, no more teacher's dirty looks.

The mirror is polished, Albert.

("Teacher" is not on my CV.)

gnimormous clue -->


Morrighan wrote on Jul 8^th, 2017 at 3:38pm:

it may be time for human consciousness to move on.

<-- gnimorous clue

Morrighan:

Why do you communicate in a way that is quite different than how people usually communicate? Do you expect people to learn your way of communication?  An unusual way of communicating isn't a sign of wisdom.


Morrighan wrote on Jul 9^th, 2017 at 10:42am:

The mirror is polished, Albert. ("Teacher" is not on my CV.) gnimormous clue --> Morrighan wrote on Jul 8th, 2017 at 3:38pm: it may be time for human consciousness to move on. <-- gnimorous clue

Trust this is clear, Albert: Just Dance. https://youtu.be/BDYIL80ncuw

Morrighan:

What is radio like in Ireland? Can you hear a broad range of music on the radio? In the 1970's you could hear a broad range of music in the United States, now radio here is overly commercialized.  Musical artists that made it in the 1970's, would have a difficult time finding the same success today.

Achill expects me back around the autumn equinox.

The radio does not figure in my landscape anywhere I am on this planet. Nor does the television or anything that comes through the television. What I observe in Eire is live entertainment takes precedence over radio and television in every public space I encounter. I only see the TV on in the pub for the duration of the match (rugby, usually). When the match is over the TV is turned off.

No intention of returning to the States.

"Why do you communicate in a way that is quite different than how people usually communicate? Do you expect people to learn your way of communication?  An unusual way of communicating isn't a sign of wisdom."

No, it isn't a sign of wisdom. As an old campaign commercial asked, "where's the beef?" It smells good, it looks good, people are seduced, salivating for the meal, but the plate is empty.

It's all a game. Clever yes, but a game nonetheless. Anyone care to play 3 Card Monty? Step right up folks, but hold onto your money.

R

*plonk*

That is the sound of a user name as it drops into the bottom of my kill file. A kill file, in UNIX, is a global ignore list.

I've no reason to continue to weather these direct and indirect insults. THIS is what has become of ALK.

Morrighan:

I am speaking for myself now. I never had the intent of insulting you.  On other threads you stated viewpoints that I believe are misleading, and for the benefit of others, I started this thread with differing viewpoints, without naming you. You brought yourself into the conversation.

It would be great if you considered some of the things I said, but that is up to you. It seems as if you have unplugged yourself from the wisdom that others can provide. Big mistake!

Regarding afterlife knowledge, as long as we have the ability to discriminate, I do not believe it is wrong to learn what others have found out. I thank everybody who has helped me learn.

It is very key to consider the fact, that other forum readers could've found out about the things I said about you even if I never said anything, simply by considering some of the  things you wrote.

M-

You should welcome challenges, not run from them. By doing so it only reinforces the perceptions some of us have. Discernment is essential in most everything in life, including posts on the ak forum.

R

Nice backpedals and pivots, you two.

Discern how this thread appears to those who come here to participate as respected equals on this forum. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Morrighan:

I don't enjoy taking part on threads like this, but I don't regret starting it.

I'm going to be real blunt now. People who aren't humble enough to learn from others, not even God, shouldn't play the role of teacher for others.

When you show me that you understand about having humility and gratitude for all who have helped you and made your existence possible, I'll be more willing to conclude that you are as wise and capable as you claim. There is no way I am going to believe that for years souls have been forced to reincarnate in this world, and then it wasn't until you and your team came along that such a system was unplugged and souls are no longer forced to reincarnate. There is too much evidence that contradicts that this is so. Why didn't those beings you speak of just replug what you and your team supposedly unplugged?


Morrighan wrote on Jul 9^th, 2017 at 3:45pm:

Nice backpedals and pivots, you two. Discern how this thread appears to those who come here to participate as respected equals on this forum. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

And to be blunt in return in this dismal thread;

The work our teams engage in is largely irrelevant to this forum, and I'm consistently clear that I bring none of that here. If any here presume to know what it is our teams do, it is not gleaned from anything I posted here. I've been most careful not to bring any of that material here except as relevant to the purpose of this forum.

That I have been judged by any here and found insufficiently humble/sincere/authentic is odious to the Nth degree. None have the right. NONE.

Go look for yourselves is precisely what I state. Snidely dissing me is a great deal easier, apparently, than actually looking for yourselves.

I spend a lot of time flitting from place to place on this forum because it is pleasant to avoid being bogged down in these types of disagreements.

Rondele, when you say "some of us" that is not really speaking for yourself. It makes it sound like there is a crew of people behind you.

I personally enjoy the presence of Morrighan on this forum. I will now go do something more productive. But, before I do, I will say that I wish that we could all try to find something that we agree upon with each other that we can build on rather than tearing apart statements by each other that we do not or cannot understand.

"That I have been judged by any here and found insufficiently humble/sincere/authentic is odious to the Nth degree. None have the right. NONE."

Wow. So no one...NOBODY... has the right to evaluate your posts and question their authenticity?  Do you realize how over the top that is?

That might work in a dictatorship but not here. Delusions of grandeur?

Where is Rod Serling when we need him?

R

If I made a claim such as "humans have been forced to reincarnate for years, and it wasn't until me and my team came along that this was stopped from happening," I would hope and expect that some people would be skeptical of what I say.

Some people might not believe what I said about Disks at the beginning of this thread, that is okay.

Yes, that's the difference. If one prefaces what they post as their belief, that's fine. But when they claim that what they say is not to be challenged,  and furthermore say that no one has the right to question their claim, red flags pop up all over the place.

Is it one person or a team, or a way to build credibility? Something to ponder.

R 

Recoverer 2 wrote on Jul 9^th, 2017 at 5:27pm:

If I made a claim such as "humans have been forced to reincarnate for years, and it wasn't until me and my team came along that this was stopped from happening," I would hope and expect that some people would be skeptical of what I say. Some people might not believe what I said about Disks at the beginning of this thread, that is okay.

Please to inform where I state this. What I see here has absolutely nothing to do with what our teams do. AIS, I'm very clear about not bringing in our work to this space unless it is relevant to the forum and forum guidelines.

Trust I am very clear I report what I find. Go look for yourself.

I believe the forum guidelines are quite plain about courtesy to others.

Morrighan:

On replies 21, 23 and 25 of the below, you wrote that you and your team unplugged the white light trap (words you don't use).

http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1485464089/15


Two of the main people that speak of the the white light trap seem suspicious to me. I won't name them, because I don't want to advertise their names. One of them says that NDEs are part of the white light trap. I've read a lot of NDE accounts, listened to videos of what some NDErs say, and had a NDE like experience myself (without a near death event), and I believe this fellows explanation of NDEs is hogwash. It's a shame, NDEs are one of the main ways people can find out about the afterlife, and this self serving man devalues NDEs for his own selfish purposes.

The other man made predictions stating that on a specific day in 2012, some people would enter a 5th dimensional world through portals, the Earth would turn into a star, and people who didn't go through portals would board Reptilian ships and become slaves. He said that he was certain that all of this would take place. Of course it didn't.


Morrighan wrote on Jul 9^th, 2017 at 6:05pm:

Recoverer 2 wrote on Jul 9th, 2017 at 5:27pm: If I made a claim such as "humans have been forced to reincarnate for years, and it wasn't until me and my team came along that this was stopped from happening," I would hope and expect that some people would be skeptical of what I say. Some people might not believe what I said about Disks at the beginning of this thread, that is okay. Please to inform where I state this. What I see here has absolutely nothing to do with what our teams do. AIS, I'm very clear about not bringing in our work to this space unless it is relevant to the forum and forum guidelines. Trust I am very clear I report what I find. Go look for yourself. I believe the forum guidelines are quite plain about courtesy to others.

What I shared has NOTHING to do with the allegation you place. The mission work in question has NOTHING to do with the so-called white light trap, and I am very clear what we found is utterly different from the description in the original post.

What I see is you (personal you) read stuff, considered stuff, but never actually took me up on my offer to show you where, personally. That offer is now closed to you.

None of what I report has the vaguest notion of saving humanity from cycles of incarnation or how-do-you-do. What I reported in the thread is entirely incidental to the mission work. None of the mission work is relevant to this forum, for it takes place outside the afterlife territories.

Please to keep facts straight. Looks like this post has stuck in your craw quite a long while, if you don't mind the observation.

Morrighan:

On the first post of that thread a person said:

"Anyone hear of the idea that the white light seen in the afterlife is a reincarnation trap perpetuated by a group of beings who feed off human energy (similar to Monroe's LOOSH idea) in order to renew their food source?"


Your first reply said:

"What a long, strange trip it's been. This topic caught my eye in my first return visit to this forum in ages. Imagine my surprise that my login still worked!

Yes, the White Light Trap. This is something our teams encountered recently and closed down. It didn't come to our attention as the White Light Trap. We were working on something else entirely beyond the Mirror Matrix."

Considering what you wrote, and the topic of the thread, I believe it is quite natural for someone conclude as I did.

Another thought about people who promote the White Light Trap viewpoint, one of them (a different man than the first two I referred to above) wrote that when a person becomes spiritually evolved he or she will withdraw from the influence of their body and become homosexual, because heterosexuality is an un-evolved body-based state of being. I have nothing against homosexuality, but come on.



Morrighan wrote on Jul 9^th, 2017 at 7:41pm:

What I shared has NOTHING to do with the allegation you place. The mission work in question has NOTHING to do with the so-called white light trap, and I am very clear what we found is utterly different from the description in the o (riginal post. What is see is you (personal you) read stuff, considered stuff, but never actually took me up on my offer to show you where, personally. None of what I report has the vaguest notion of saving humanity from cycles of incarnation or how-do-you-do. What I reported in the thread is entirely incidental to the mission work. None of the mission work is relevant to this forum, for it takes place outside the afterlife territories. Please to keep facts straight. Looks like this post has stuck in your craw quite a long while, if you don't mind the observation.

" It didn't come to our attention as the White Light Trap."

And explicitly clear, as the thread continues, that what we found is not the White Light Trap as described in the original post. Something like it, but much nastier. And at no point did I describe the function of it, what it is used for, or by who for what purpose.

And - I am recalling from memory - someone or multiple someones countered (roughly): God would never permit such a thing to exist.

Hey, just reporting what we found. K? And we unplugged it. None of this has anything to do with cycles of incarnation or anything else. I was most careful not to share any information about what it is, exactly, that we unplugged. Or any information about our mission work that took us to the space where we found this. That information is not meant for public knowledge. I share as much as I feel is responsible.

It matters not a broken popsicle stick if you choose to believe or not. Go look for yourself, I'll show you, I said. Volunteers .... crickets. What I received here for what I shared is less than courteous.

THIS is what has become of this board.  :-[ :-[

Morrighan:

You said, "Something like it, but much nastier"--so you did make a big claim. Regarding what has become of this board, I believe it is okay to question big claims.

And this is a forum where people who can either access the afterlife territories or aspire to come together to share their experience. Every senior member here should have the chops to reach these spaces. Or is it all hat and no cattle?

Belittling a forum member because one either cannot or will not go look for themselves is what I see. Telling me personally I am insufficiently humble, accusing me personally of running a con, telling me personally I lack sufficient communication skills, telling me personally I am either on an ego trip and/or delusional - yes this is what has become of this board. And every one of these occurrences is specifically proscribed in the forum guidelines. And proscribed by the rules of common courtesy as well.


Recoverer 2 wrote on Jul 9^th, 2017 at 8:26pm:

Morrighan: You said, "Something like it, but much nastier"--so you did make a big claim. Regarding what has become of this board, I believe it is okay to question big claims.

And just a few syllables after this I write: That information is not meant for public knowledge. I share as much as I feel is responsible.

Morrighan:

Earlier, on two posts, I explained that when I started this post I did not name you. You added yourself to the conversation, and lots of follow up posts resulted.

If it is okay for you to speak in a way that might lead some people to believe that spiritually developed people don't rely on what other people have learned at all, and that they don't need to learn from anybody else, perhaps it is okay for me to say that it is okay to benefit from what other people have learned, and to learn from others.

I see that on the white light trap thread, you said "I am extremely grateful for Bruce and his work, and extremely grateful to those others in my landscape who encouraged me in my work that is now my full-time job. Bruce, if you read this (Vicky told me), please accept my deep gratitude for all you have done."

So perhaps you didn't fully mean it when on this thread you said "Teacher? Nyet. That's the old way and the old has no meaning where I reside. I play or I talk, and I choose to play. What I create is mine and mine to share. I take full responsibility for my creations. Teacher? That time is no more. UNPLUGGED.".

Can you see that my intention for starting this thread is to share the viewpoint that it is okay to learn from others, including what some of them have learned during their own non-physical exploration?

It seems to me that some of the modern day white light trap people are trying to get people to forget what other people have discovered about the world of spirit, and to instead---------follow them. Such people seem to be extremists. I believe it is a mistake to disregard what various OBErs and NDErs have discovered.

Added note: If you believe that you are now beyond learning from others, sorry to say it, but that is probably your ego speaking.

You also said you had me in mind when you created the OP, Albert.

Is there something in my original reply on this thread that is unclear? Somewhere I recall some rural wisdom about wrestling pigs: you get dirty and the pig likes it.


Recoverer 2 wrote on Jul 9^th, 2017 at 8:56pm:

Morrighan: Added note: If you believe that you are now beyond learning from others, sorry to say it, but that is probably your ego speaking.

Perhaps - and to use your words, sorry to say it - you would do well to consider who you are speaking with. Because I will not abide being spoken to repeatedly in such a tone.

To everyone,

It's been brought to my attention there's some conflict going on.  I'm letting you all know that I'm currently reading through this thread to get caught up and see what's happening.

Before more posts get made here, let me all remind you that everyone is entitled to their opinions and beliefs and no one who posts here is doing so for the benefit of others to tear them apart for proof of their claims or beliefs, so please keep that in mind.

This is a forum of sharing and discussing.  Yes you can question others but if they don't want to divulge something to your satisfaction then please just cease engaging and/or refrain from harassment.

Please all keep in mind the posting rules and guidelines and refrain from attacking. 

Morrighan:

I had you in mind in the sense that some of your statements are the reason I decided to start this thread. Rather than call you out on a thread someone else started, I wrote what I wrote without naming you. It is not my fault that you said what you said on other threads, or that you decided to respond to this thread.  Therefore, do not try to make it seem as if I am guilty of something, simply because I have a way of viewing things that is different than how you view things.

If you have a problem with people disagreeing with your viewpoints, then perhaps you shouldn't share your viewpoints on a forum that is shared by others.

Stop playing the role of victim.

I believe in the Disk viewpoint. If somebody disagrees with me, go ahead and say so. I won't take it personally.





Morrighan wrote on Jul 9^th, 2017 at 9:07pm:

You also said you had me in mind when you created the OP, Albert. Is there something in my original reply on this thread that is unclear? Somewhere I recall some rural wisdom about wrestling pigs: you get dirty and the pig likes it. Recoverer 2 wrote on Jul 9th, 2017 at 8:56pm: Morrighan: Added note: If you believe that you are now beyond learning from others, sorry to say it, but that is probably your ego speaking. Perhaps - and to use your words, sorry to say it - you would do well to consider who you are speaking with. Because I will not abide being spoken to repeatedly in such a tone.

Vicky:

Perhaps it would be good to tell Morrighan that if she doesn't want people to say something that disagrees with how she views things, then perhaps she shouldn't write on a public forum.

I believe that it is okay to learn from others. If somebody believes I am wrong, please, go ahead and say so. If people weren't so overly sensitive, we wouldn't have to have these back and forth conversations.

Albert,

She has made it clear how she feels and believes and what she feels like sharing.  I can appreciate your intention, however your endeavor is turning from discussion into argument as you try to get more than what is being offered.  As far as I'm concerned, no more back and forth needs to take place on this matter.  Dead horse, ok? 

Can you please willingly refrain from more beatings in attempt to prove your point?  There simply does NOT need to be a mission to every thread that gets started. 

To all the old-timers here, you all know the rules and how to push each others buttons.  Let's continue in a manner of discussion keeping in mind if someone doesn't fulfill your wishes, then just let it go.

Vicky

Vicky:

When I started this thread I had no intention for it to become what it became.  Whenever I wrote a post, I responded to a post that was written to me. If people don't expect for their posts to be responded to, then they shouldn't write them.

If one looks through this thread one will find that I started it without naming Morrighan, and every time I said something else, I responded to her most recent post.



Vicky wrote on Jul 9^th, 2017 at 10:24pm:

Albert, She has made it clear how she feels and believes and what she feels like sharing.  I can appreciate your intention, however your endeavor is turning from discussion into argument as you try to get more than what is being offered.  As far as I'm concerned, no more back and forth needs to take place on this matter.  Dead horse, ok?  Can you please willingly refrain from more beatings in attempt to prove your point?  There simply does NOT need to be a mission to every thread that gets started.  To all the old-timers here, you all know the rules and how to push each others buttons.  Let's continue in a manner of discussion keeping in mind if someone doesn't fulfill your wishes, then just let it go. Vicky

Yes, and I'm just reminding everyone to stop continuing in a manner that is nonproductive and crossing the line. 

Hopefully if this thread continues, it will continue in a better manner.  That's all I'm asking.

Thanks everyone

Pssst: this is how it works: Intent. Anchor in form. Creation. We are creator beings.

***

“Do you know Wang Dang Doodle?”

That’s Bob. Bob the harmonica player. He’s a bluesman, and he knows I’m here as the blues bass player. Three weeks have gone by since he first asks.

You mean:

“Tonight we need no rest, we really gonna throw a mess
We gonna to break out all of the windows, we gonna kick down all the doors
We gonna pitch a wang dang doodle all night long” I reply.

Bob grins. We’re on the same wavelength. It’s a Willie Dixon song recorded by Howlin’ Wolf. Yes, I know it. But can I play it?

“How about Wang Dang Doodle,” Bob asks tonight. It’s my night on stage and I’m prepared. After Bob asked the first time, I went back to woodshed the bass line from the original Howlin’ Wolf track.

And this is what my music teachers taught me to do: teach myself. And I listen to that track, again and again and again until I internalize the groove. This is my job with the blues bass: I play the groove. “My name is Ingio Montoya. You killed the groove, now prepare to die,” is the sig of another bass player I know. He also likes The Princess Bride, and this is where he created this witty insight. It is so true.

For me to internalize the groove, I first shift my attention to the first metapoint. What’s with this metapoint stuff? Certain I explained the concept of a meta-joke: a bloke walks into a pub. Something happens. The result is hilarious!

The metapoint where I shift my awareness as I internalize the groove to Wang Dang Doodle is where form and formless meet. Some of you who practice meditation may have found this space. To me, it’s about getting out of the way.

I think I have it. Now, using only my right hand, I play only the rhythm. Bzzzt. Wrong. Back to listening. It’s a rather sophisticated rhythm, actually, there is a lot of feel to it. And when I play I’ll be talking with the kick drum as I listen to the snare. My job is to provide the launch vehicle for Bob and Jason (guitar, vocals) to take orbit with Wang Dang Doodle.

We gonna romp and stomp till midnight
We gonna fuss and fight till daylight
We gonna pitch a wang dang doodle all night long
All night long

Now I’ve got the rhythm down, it’s time to work out the notes. I’m teaching myself.

This is about the metapoint. Teacher? Nyet. Some of my music teachers aren’t even alive today. They did their job. It’s my job now to teach MySelf. From the formless to form and back to formlessness. It’s my body that is the instrument I play. From the formless to form. The pattern goes into muscle memory and everything must be perfect. My body will never forget, so it’s vital that every movement that goes into muscle memory is perfect. My body wants to please, and it makes me so happy to

pitch a wang dang doodle all night long

We’re on stage. I know my song well before I start singing, Bob Dylan sang. My drummer is wearing a tee silkscreened with a murloc from World of Warcraft. This is going to be good, I feel.

I lay down my line that I taught myself. The drummer catches on and we settle into a conversation of time. And the band takes off…..

pitch a wang dang doodle all night long

M-

Thanks. I was confused before but now it's totally clear.

R

I played a bass guitar in a band when I was supposed to be going to college. Totally worth it.

Informing the field:

Really nice, Seagullresting! Yes totally worth it. And I'm reminded of a joke: Knock Knock. Who's there? Bass player. Bass player who? Exactly! (rimshot https://youtu.be/gpaOy8b8X6A)

So as to continue ... I speak here within the narrow discipline of music, yet the metaphor for all aspects of "teacher" (including "spiritual" teacher) remain intact and unadulterated.

I'll begin with the Epistle Paul. Not the one in the Bible. This Paul is the epistle of practical music theory as expressed on the fretboard of a bass guitar. A fret is the metal wire on the "playing" side of the instrument's neck that is used to ensure precise intonation. The fretboard is the whole of the playing side of the neck including the frets, the wood in which the frets are mounted, and the inlays (if any).

According to the Gospel of Paul, there are 13 (practical) ways to finger the fretboard to play a major scale over two octaves. But I'm getting ahead of the story. Let's take a moment to look at who the Epistle Paul is, for I know him well.

Paul is a master of the instrument. He's also a working player. If the gig pays, he plays it. It doesn't matter if it's country and western played from inside a chicken wire cage (like in The Blues Brothers scene at Bob's Country Bunker - and that is Very Real!) or on a cruise ship or in a church. They gots moneys, Paul accepts moneys.

In my personal experience with Paul, I observe if it contains alcohol, he'll drink it, if it's pot he'll smoke it, and if need be he has no problem swearing. Oh and sex, of course, I've never seen Paul has a problem with that. HaHa. (No personal contact implied and none of your business anyway.)

In short, Paul is embodied as a human being, and enjoys the experience of a human being. Paul is also a spiritual being of great multidimensionality in the experience of a human being. He is, as I like to say, BOTH / AND.

Oh, and he's welcome in my home any time, and has been a guest in my home more often than I would care to number. He comes and goes of his own free will. Now about that fretboard.

I sit with my bass, just noodling around, perhaps I am figuring out a fingering for the F Troop theme or The Hearse Song (... the worms crawl in, the worms crawl out ...). Which is to say I'm just playing free form, I'm playing at playing.

And in my awareness of myself as a field being being a field ... this is not the first I speak of this ... I am also the observer as well as the do-er as well as the do-e. This is the metapoint, and there is yet another metapoint ....

The metapoint is the juncture of form and formlessness - where I bring form from formlessness that returns to formlessness.

And it is from here I am open to the Epistle Paul in the greater field that is my landscape, and here is what opens:

I now see through my own awareness and physical presence in the field of the fretboard - which is an open descriptor of all of music theory ....

.... if I begin an ascending major scale with my first finger (index finger) on the tonic (first scale degree) and then slide my first finger to the second degree, I can complete the scale sequence beginning on the second degree with only a single shift on the next (higher) string. If it sounds technical, it is technical but I explain it as clearly as possible within the technical language required within the greater field of music theory. And so do I also speak of my [non-physical] observations in technical terms appropriate to the field. There are reasons to speak technically about technical matters. It's technical  ;)

And something new opens up for me, it's an epiphany, a rosetta stone of the fretboard. For I always wondered how to complete a major scale beginning with my index finger on the second degree. This is intent. This is how we place intent. It doesn't matter if my intent is to see my fretboard in an entirely new way or if my intent is to make contact with an individual who left their embodiment. Intent is intent, and this is, I observe, how intent works. I wonder about something ....

And in my placement of intent, I "drop the reins on my horse's neck" (to borrow from Parsifal) and allow. I become my instrument of intent. We are field beings being a field. And now my musical landscape is enlarged considerably! In practical terms, it means my new mastery of the Dorian Mode from my first finger opens a new way to play Scarborough Fair. Kewl. (Except a bass player's role in a group is not typically melodic - though it sometimes can be without the Dreaded Bass Solo.)

Did Bass Epistle Paul "teach" me this? NO.

What occurred is I gave my self permission to play - to drop all my habits of preconception - and taught myself what Paul already learned and made accessible through his presence in my landscape. Paul did not teach me this. I've not seen Paul in person in decades. It's not necessary! Because I made the choice to open myself to play ....

Trust this is clear. I'm the one who teaches me, I have all I need to do so. I am the only one who, through my own embodiment in the experience of a human, who teaches me. For we are field beings being a field. We are creator beings.

First there is intent. Then there is stepping out of the way. Then there is the creation. Some see this as a naturally occurring Fibonacci Sequence, and that is a good analogy!

Trust you (general you) see why my home is always open to Bass Epistle Paul and I offer all the hospitality at my disposal. And he's welcome to cuss and smoke and what have you anytime in my landscape. For there is no teacher, there never was a teacher, we are in equity.

I played with a pic(k). I could not read music, although I once could. See how that works? My partner wrote and taught me my part. I sang. As soon as they started liking me a lot, so that I was singing a lot of songs, he broke up the band.

So, there's that.

But, I tried it with others. It was never the same.

So there's that.

I would never worship a teacher. But, I will certainly remember one. How could you forget?

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/userpix1504/107_bass_1.jpg

https://pencilsatdawn.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/intersection-phil.jpg

Hey, I had fans. I had admirers. My poetry was the lyric. I had a person who said the way I played was interesting. I don't care if that was the only one or if there were others. The point is, I agree with your basic philosophy. It is important to eventually stand apart. But, remember your roots.

Would very much enjoy hearing you!

In the trust this is utterly clear: it's not about me. This is about equity.

So that none misunderstands: the metaphor of the bass may be understood as a metaphor for embodiment and creation via embodiment. The bass guitar is silent without a player, who puts creation in motion via intent.

As relevant to Afterlife Knowledge: the process I describe of the shift to the metapoint of form and formlessness - BOTH / AND - is the same process in which we achieve equity with our "teacher".

What I observe is a tendency to invest belief in the teacher-student relationship that strips us of our equity. Let me cite an example that is not likely to trigger any emotional points:

Lao Tsu was one of my great teachers. Whether one believes he is a spiritual teacher is of no importance. I studied with Lao Tsu in extreme depth - studied and meditated and blah blah woof woof until I integrated his field into my greater landscape (technical description). The "enlightenment" is the realization of I AM.

And pertinent to afterlife knowledge, it is one who is in equity is the new explorer. Ever wonder what was beyond the beyond where Robert Monroe went? And this is part of what opens when we are in equity with our "teacher". Technical again: I observe an actual shift that occurs in our solar plexus when we bridge the choice point of equity with our "teacher". It's quite plain to see!

A belief system that is predicated on "the teacher" Bob Monroe can go beyond beyond (the portal that leads out of the afterlife territories) is a closed system. Once we reach equity then the choice point is reclaimed. (This is what is plain to see in the solar plexus!) Lao Tsu or Bass Epistle Paul or Bob Monroe, it's all the same. Equity does not in any way dishonor a teacher. It's the belief system agreement that there is a teacher than dishonors SELF. Thus my post upthread about belief systems and belief system self-preservation ....

It is in the process of the metaphor of the bass guitar that I draw the metapoint. It is a technical descriptor of the metapoint that is observed. There is no outside outside.

Have a day  ::)

Morrighan:

Hopefully you weren't trying to teach anybody with what you just said.

I can't say that I ever felt dishonored when I learned from another.

It is okay to form beliefs that are based on what we learned.

I report what I observe.

If it isn't okay to form a belief that is based on what you observed, then why bother with observing anything?


Morrighan wrote on Aug 1^st, 2017 at 1:58pm:

I report what I observe.

Observed: we are field beings being a field.

Can you please clarify?


Morrighan wrote on Aug 1^st, 2017 at 2:34pm:

Observed: we are field beings being a field.

Recoverer 2 wrote on Aug 1^st, 2017 at 3:00pm:

Can you please clarify? Morrighan wrote on Aug 1st, 2017 at 2:34pm: Observed: we are field beings being a field.

Actually, upon reflection a more accurate observation is: we are multidimensional beings being multidimensional fields.

Thank you for the clarification.


Morrighan wrote on Aug 1^st, 2017 at 7:37pm:

Recoverer 2 wrote on Aug 1st, 2017 at 3:00pm: Can you please clarify? Morrighan wrote on Aug 1st, 2017 at 2:34pm: Observed: we are field beings being a field. Actually, upon reflection a more accurate observation is: we are multidimensional beings being multidimensional fields.

What I observe pertinent to afterlife knowledge / afterlife exploration is:

Exploration of the so-called afterlife territories opens us to our awareness of own multidimensionality. We see this presented strongly in the afterlife literature: we are more than we have been taught to believe. In this, our teachers become liabilities.