In his book "Ultimate Journey" on pages 224-225 Robert Monroe said:

"These to me are Knowns: This, our Creator...does not demand worship, adoration, or recognition, does not punish for `evil' or `misdeeds', does not intercede or interdict in our life activity."

The part about not demanding worship and adoration makes sense to me.  Since God (the Creator) is the source of all love, I find it hard to believe that he is need of receiving worship and adoration. Worship and adoration is something a narcissistic being would desire. A being who  doesn't understand his own self worth and seeks acknowledgement in an outward false way. A being who understands about the fullness and beauty of oneness and divine love, wouldn't feel the need to stand out above others, even if he was the first being to exist. If one thinks in the LOOSH terms Robert wrote about, what kind of being would collect worship and adoration like energy?

Regarding "recognition", I don't completely agree with that. I believe it is okay for any conscious being, including God, to want to have his existence acknowledged. On the other hand, perhaps this is what Robert meant, since God doesn't view anything that exists as being separate from himself, perhaps the Creator part of God understands that all parts of himself including us are important, in order for his creative plan to work out. Therefore, the Creator aspect doesn't desire special recognition.

Regarding "does not punish for `evil' or `misdeeds', " I believe that God is way too wise and loving to think in terms of punishing the beings he created. He understands why some of us go astray thoroughly enough where he feels no need for Judgement. Jesus' prodigal son story seems to make this point. In this story a man rejoiced when his son became wise enough to choose a positive way. I figure God feels the same way.

Regarding, "does not intercede or interdict in our life activity." I do not believe that Robert meant this completely, because elsewhere within Ultimate Journey he wrote that the Creator makes adjustments according to need. I believe it is a matter of finding the right balance of when it is appropriate to intercede, and when it isn't. Unless we understand the big picture to the extent The Creator/God does, it might seem curious at times why there are moments when it seems as if God doesn't intercede.

What is worship? Is it the adulation of a minion licking the boots of an evil cartoon villain? Is it something else? I don't understand the ways and workings of worship in religions.

Most of my walk to work today was a pretty ordinary walk, but while paying attention to nature for a while suddenly came a perfectly cool breeze infused with the smell of sea and for a moment I thought about how amazing nature is and appreciated it/regarded it highly.

Uno wrote on May 31^st, 2017 at 1:11pm:

What is worship? Is it the adulation of a minion licking the boots of an evil cartoon villain? Is it something else? I don't understand the ways and workings of worship in religions. Most of my walk to work today was a pretty ordinary walk, but while paying attention to nature for a while suddenly came a perfectly cool breeze infused with the smell of sea and for a moment I thought about how amazing nature is and appreciated it/regarded it highly.

I can imagine it. And it sounds like worship to me.

Here is my view to it:

Worship is paying homage, and paying homage is giving of self and time. (homo/self+age/time)
We give of self and time by giving the attention of our mind and heart.
In giving of self and time we give awareness and thankfulness. (appreciation)
We reach out with curiosity and wonder.
Worship only truth. Truth is reality, is how things are, is existence now, in total and in all its parts.
Truth is God, anything else is falsity.
We value truth above all else; make truth our priority.
And from valuing truth above all else we become able to see it for our self.
Our mind becomes honest, and honesty is transparency, is clarity of mind.
Honesty is the ability to see things as they are.
We develop honesty not so much from valuing honesty but from valuing truth.
Our mind becomes clear and thus becomes a medium of truth. Truthful.
We come to see more and more of reality, of how things really are, and appreciate it.
   

Albert: "In his book "Ultimate Journey" on pages 224-225 Robert Monroe said: "These to me are Knowns: This, our Creator...does not demand worship, adoration, or recognition, does not punish for `evil' or `misdeeds', does not intercede or interdict in our life activity."

Albert: "The part about not demanding worship and adoration makes sense to me.  Since God (the Creator) is the source of all love, I find it hard to believe that he is need of receiving worship and adoration. Worship and adoration is something a narcissistic being would desire."

Your first mistake is your crude anthropomorphic assumption that the biblical God has an ego.  Among other false assumptions, you assume that the biblical God is the Supreme Being among countless other created beings.  In fact, strictly speaking, God does not "exist:" rather, God is the ground of all existence (Acts 17:28).  God gives us anthropomorphic images of Himself only to help us establish a loving relationship with Him.  Thus, Jesus teaches us to address God as our heavenly Father.  But speaking literally, God declares, "I am God and not a male (Hebrew: "ish"), the Holy One in your midst (Hosea 11:9)."  And Numbers 23:18 can say, "God is not a human, that He should lie."  Elsewhere God urges us to acknowledge the limits of anthropomorphic God talk:
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are my ways your ways, says the Lord.  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9)."

Your 2nd mistake is your assumption that the biblical God is a narcissist who NEEDS worship.  In fact, the biblical God has no "needs;" rather, it is we who need to worship to establish and express a loving relationship with God.  It is in that sense that we must interpret the poetic image in Psalm 22:3: "You are holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel."  Thus, God asks rhetorically that when Israel is guilty of false worship: "Is it I whom they provoke?...Is it not themselves TO THEIR OWN HURT (Jeremiah 7:19)?"

Albert's irreverent reaction to the concept  of worship has tragic roots in Monroe's arrogant dismissal of the need for worship.  Consider Monroe's defiance in God's presence:

"A voice in my head, a cold, admonitory voice--"I am the Lord thy God whom you serve"...My lungs are full of water.  I must have air...The idea of a god that threatens me amuses me..[God] ."You are damned.  You are no more than wasted energy of me, who is your Lord!""

"Ultimate Journey" is published in 1994 and Monroe dies from pneumonia in early 1995 (March 31).  Monroe's irreverent reaction to God's worship requirement seems to have triggered a divine warning of the ailment that would soon take his life.  He experiences pneumonia-like symptoms, a drowning sensation in which his lungs are full of liquid and he has trouble breathing.  Monroe's death reminds me of the depression psychosis that takes Helen Schucman's life after the publication of "The Course in Miracles." 

Albert: "If one thinks in the LOOSH terms Robert wrote about, what kind of being would collect worship and adoration like energy?"

What you and Monroe overlook is that PUL is relational; true love requires an object, an other; so to experience God, we need to experience His love and to worship God is to express our love for God in adoration, praise, and thanksgiving.  One of the great evils of the Monroe/ Moen model is that it accepts both a creator and PUL as a basic, and yet, it refuses to acknowledge the truth and mystical importance of the biblical affirmation, "God is love."

So on the Monroe/Moen model, love floats around like a cosmic soup that can be dipped into and projected on souls in need of retrieval.   This absurd notion in itself suggests that New Age retrievals are illusory.  As the Bible and ES make clear, PUL is not a feeling, but a way of being.  The concepts "pure" and "unconditional" imply a contrast with "impure' ways of being and ways of being in which love has conditions or strings attached.  As ES eloquently demonstrates, real love is part of our core personality or core desires, not a lovin' feeling, and those core desires determine whether we progress spiritually in the afterlife territories.   

Albert: "Regarding "does not punish for `evil' or `misdeeds', " I believe that God is way too wise and loving to think in terms of punishing the beings he created. He understands why some of us go astray thoroughly enough where he feels no need for Judgement."

This Monroe/ Moen claim is a corollary of the false principle, "There is no god, there is no evil.  There is only expression."  So I guess an unpunished Hitler is thriving in his reunion with his soul Disk, awaiting another incarnational adventure.  It has been demonstrated that moral relativism and the lack of moral absolutes are recipes for a dysfunctional and immoral society.  {I will document the relevant research in a separate post.)  Famed Oxford professor, eloquently expresses God's respect for self-determination  in our ultimate fate, "The gates of Hell are locked FROM THE INSIDE." 

Monroe: "The Creator.. does not intercede or interdict in our life activity."

This atrocious claim is inevitable once the Monroe disconnect between the Creator and cosmic PUL is recognized.  In fact, my threads here attest the opposite truth, that one way God expresses His love towards us is by hearing and responding to our prayers, thus establishing a loving personal relationship. 

Don:

See my responses below within brackets. I highlighted some of the unnecessary adjectives you used:

Albert: "In his book "Ultimate Journey" on pages 224-225 Robert Monroe said: "These to me are Knowns: This, our Creator...does not demand worship, adoration, or recognition, does not punish for `evil' or `misdeeds', does not intercede or interdict in our life activity."

Albert: "The part about not demanding worship and adoration makes sense to me.  Since God (the Creator) is the source of all love, I find it hard to believe that he is need of receiving worship and adoration. Worship and adoration is something a narcissistic being would desire."

Your first mistake is your crude anthropomorphic assumption that the biblical God has an ego.  Among other false assumptions, you assume that the biblical God is the Supreme Being among countless other created beings.  In fact, strictly speaking, God does not "exist:" rather, God is the ground of all existence (Acts 17:28).  God gives us anthropomorphic images of Himself only to help us establish a loving relationship with Him.  Thus, Jesus teaches us to address God as our heavenly Father.  But speaking literally, God declares, "I am God and not a male (Hebrew: "ish"), the Holy One in your midst (Hosea 11:9)."  And Numbers 23:18 can say, "God is not a human, that He should lie."  Elsewhere God urges us to acknowledge the limits of anthropomorphic God talk:
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are my ways your ways, says the Lord.  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9)."

[I believe that God has an ego in the sense that he has a sense of self. I don’t mean he has narcissistic attributes. I believe that God is the source of everything, and everything is made up of his being. I’ve found that I feel love for God the most when I love him as a good friend, appreciate him, and care about his happiness. I don’t feel the need to praise him in the way an Islamic terrorist would, because my love for him doesn’t include the self-serving motive of receiving some sort of reward from him.]

Your 2nd mistake is your assumption that the biblical God is a narcissist who NEEDS worship.  In fact, the biblical God has no "needs;" rather, it is we who need to worship to establish and express a loving relationship with God.  It is in that sense that we must interpret the poetic image in Psalm 22:3: "You are holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel."  Thus, God asks rhetorically that when Israel is guilty of false worship: "Is it I whom they provoke?...Is it not themselves TO THEIR OWN HURT (Jeremiah 7:19)?"

[I did not say that the Biblical God is a narcissist. There are some people who act as if he is when they claim that you better praise God or else.]

Albert's irreverent reaction to the concept of worship has tragic roots in Monroe's arrogant dismissal of the need for worship.  Consider Monroe's defiance in God's presence:

[Don, you are so emotionally attached to lashing out at anything that doesn’t support your limited way of viewing things, that you feel the need to see negativity where it doesn’t exist. It is possible for people to have love, respect, gratitude, and loyalty to God without having to raise their arms and repeat “praise the lord” over and over again. People who act in such a way are often the same people who believe that they better believe in God and worship him, or they will be sent to hell for all of eternity. It isn’t possible to have genuine feelings of love for a being if one of your reasons for being devoted to that being is the fear of retribution. As far as I’m concerned “A God fearing” attitude is blasphemous towards God’s PUL. He is so understanding and he loves so unconditionally, that it isn’t necessary to fear him.]

"A voice in my head, a cold, admonitory voice--"I am the Lord thy God whom you serve"...My lungs are full of water.  I must have air...The idea of a god that threatens me amuses me..[God] ."You are damned.  You are no more than wasted energy of me, who is your Lord!""

"Ultimate Journey" is published in 1994 and Monroe dies from pneumonia in early 1995 (March 31).  Monroe's irreverent reaction to God's worship requirement seems to have triggered a divine warning of the ailment that would soon take his life.  He experiences pneumonia-like symptoms, a drowning sensation in which his lungs are full of liquid and he has trouble breathing.  Monroe's death reminds me of the depression psychosis that takes Helen Schucman's life after the publication of "The Course in Miracles."

[The comparison you make here is ridiculous, and could only be had by a person who is so intent on finding evil associated with Robert, that he will come to conclusions that have no basis. I do not believe that Robert was opposed to feeling genuine love for God. If anything, he was opposed to the idea of loving a Creator like God without actually knowing if such a being exists. I do not believe that God has a problem with people who want to find out for certain whether or not he exists, before they feel love for him. Because Robert was brave enough to explore non-physically, he was able to find out if a Creator-like being exists. He was also probably opposed to the idea of loving a being because “you better or else.” There is no way you could truly love a being if you believe that such being will send you to hell for all of eternity if you don’t. Such an activity is forced submission, not wisdom based appreciation and acceptance.]

Albert: "If one thinks in the LOOSH terms Robert wrote about, what kind of being would collect worship and adoration like energy?"

What you and Monroe overlook is that PUL is relational; true love requires an object, an other; so to experience God, we need to experience His love and to worship God is to express our love for God in adoration, praise, and thanksgiving.  One of the great evils of the Monroe/ Moen model is that it accepts both a creator and PUL as a basic, and yet, it refuses to acknowledge the truth and mystical importance of the biblical affirmation, "God is love."

[Regarding “relationship,” “an object,” “an other,” there are many occasions when I’ve read of somebody experiencing PUL, and they shared it with “Someone else.” How do you know that Robert and Bruce don’t think of God as love? That is your baseless accusation.]

So on the Monroe/Moen model, love floats around like a cosmic soup that can be dipped into and projected on souls in need of retrieval.   This absurd notion in itself suggests that New Age retrievals are illusory.  As the Bible and ES make clear, PUL is not a feeling, but a way of being.  The concepts "pure" and "unconditional" imply a contrast with "impure' ways of being and ways of being in which love has conditions or strings attached.  As ES eloquently demonstrates, real love is part of our core personality or core desires, not a lovin' feeling, and those core desires determine whether we progress spiritually in the afterlife territories.

[With these last two paragraphs you are speaking according to your agenda laden concept of PUL, not what other people have experienced and understand. Due to the same prejudice and lack of experience, you cannot with any authority state whether other people have done retrievals. If you insist on claiming that you know better than the people who have done retrievals, this just shows how rigidly you cling to your way of thinking. PUL is a way of being and a feeling. If one abides as love, one is able to experience such love. If one isn’t feeling love, one isn’t actually abiding as love. Living according to PUL is not an all or nothing activity. For example, you allow yourself to feel love and respect when you speak to members of your church, but when you speak to New Age people you feel judgment, righteousness, a false sense of superiority, condescension and condemnation. When through experience you learn what PUL is all about and live according to it more completely, you will feel nothing but love and respect for all people, even if they are audacious enough to have viewpoints that disagree with your own.]

Albert: "Regarding "does not punish for `evil' or `misdeeds', " I believe that God is way too wise and loving to think in terms of punishing the beings he created. He understands why some of us go astray thoroughly enough where he feels no need for Judgment."

This Monroe/ Moen claim is a corollary of the false principle, "There is no god, there is no evil.  There is only expression."  So I guess an unpunished Hitler is thriving in his reunion with his soul Disk, awaiting another incarnational adventure.  It has been demonstrated that moral relativism and the lack of moral absolutes are recipes for a dysfunctional and immoral society.  {I will document the relevant research in a separate post.)  Famed Oxford professor, eloquently expresses God's respect for self-determination  in our ultimate fate, "The gates of Hell are locked FROM THE INSIDE."

[First of all, your response isn’t an accurate representation of what I said. Second, it shows a lack of understanding of how things work. What happened to Hitler after he died isn’t a matter of a God who lacked an understanding of Hitler’s life and who chose to punish him. Rather, it is a matter of Hitler having to experience a continuation of his negative state of mind after he died and what resulted, until he reached the point where he became honest about how he lived, and chose a more positive way. More children become gang bangers in neighborhoods where gang activity takes place as opposed to neighborhoods where it doesn’t not because those children are more evil than other children, but because these are the kind of influences they have to deal with. More children become racists in families where racism exists than children of families where racism doesn’t exist not because they are more evil, but because they had to deal with negative influences that non-effected children didn’t have to deal with. In order to create us so we have free will, God couldn’t download all of his wisdom into us when he did so. He had to allow us to have the opportunity to learn for ourselves. As a result, until we gain the wisdom that enables us to use our free will in a wise and loving way, some of us are likely to make some mistakes.
Understanding what takes place isn’t a matter of being steeped in some brain-dead moral relativism where you can’t recognize a negative event such as rape. It is a matter of understanding the big picture well enough so you understand why some souls manifest in a negative way for a while. It isn’t a matter of some beings and events being evil through their entire core. It is a matter of what God’s creative process requires in order for the essential ingredient of free will to exist.]

Monroe: "The Creator.. does not intercede or interdict in our life activity."

This atrocious claim is inevitable once the Monroe disconnect between the Creator and cosmic PUL is recognized.  In fact, my threads here attest the opposite truth, that one way God expresses His love towards us is by hearing and responding to our prayers, thus establishing a loving personal relationship. 

[I already addressed this on this post with the below. Even if to some extent Robert was wrong about this, it is a bit much for you to try to discredit him on that basis. Your doing so is more about your agenda, than seeing what is so. If you can make as many discriminatory mistakes as you make, then why can’t Robert make some.


Regarding, "does not intercede or interdict in our life activity." I do not believe that Robert meant this completely, because elsewhere within Ultimate Journey he wrote that the Creator makes adjustments according to need. I believe it is a matter of finding the right balance of when it is appropriate to intercede, and when it isn't. Unless we understand the big picture to the extent The Creator/God does, it might seem curious at times why there are moments when it seems as if God doesn't intercede.]

     I don't believe that we can truly define God in human terms, but the following comes closest to how I perceive God. 

    God is the Original, First Self, which desired both companionship and self expression, and from It's essence, thoughts, will, imagination, It created the Many, which are individualized, self aware, free will parts of Itself. 

  It's "Children" in a very real sense. 

  God is both that original, First Self, but God is also Love and the Oneness of the Whole in a more general sense.   I think that God appreciates our gratitude and Love, but yes, doesn't demand or need worship in the sense of narcissistic type being or human, like a King, would want that. 

   History is replete with many Kings who demanded worship and obedience in a tyrannical way that did not respect freewill whatsoever.  I think Bob was just trying to get beyond the "Old man in the sky" concept of God that is common in some belief systems.   

  Basically, God built into certain "near fail safe systems" like the Law of Like attracts, begets, and resonates with Like and then said, "be free, go and use your freewill.  I would love for you to join me willingly and become my companion and a Co-Creator with me, but you are free to choose otherwise."

   God is kind of like the ultimate wise, very patient, loving Father-Mother Parent all rolled into one. 

    Yeshua often referred to God as Abba (Father), because he was emphasizing God's Yang side.  Other words/concepts for Yang, is active, force, power, focused and/or directed energy or consciousness, etc. 

   God is both Yang and Yin, and yet completely beyond both.  But It in the very beginning, before It changed and it was still just one self, all by it's lonesome, we could say that when God was in this more passive/receptive/feeling state of being, God was at this point, polarized to the Yin side of Consciousness.
     This is the "void" that some experience.  In particular, there are some Yin polarized Souls that are also in female bodies, that particularly like to experience this original, void state of God, because it is comforting and "like" aka more similar to their own passive/receptive/Yin attunement. Such attunement, not surprisingly, makes for very psychic and easily influenced/suggestible personalities.

  When It decided to change and become an active Creator, that moment, It integrated it's Yang side, and became perfectly balanced/merged and beyond either in a singular sense. 

    Just today earlier in deep prayer-meditation, I had a conversation with Yeshua about God, and said I would like to someday perceive God more clearly/distinctly and he told me that was hard to do for a human because God is so fast vibratory and beyond human conception, which is part of Yeshua's role here, as being an advocate of and for God, for us.  The feeling/intuition I got was that we experience God within our heart when we open up to Love, but it's hard to clearly perceive God in It's "First Self form" so to speak (in a sense, Don is right, for God is formless as we understand it, as It's present everywhere, in everything, all consciousness).

     I also got the feeling that eventually, as we grow more and more, especially when we get completely beyond the need and desire for human experience, we will come to know God better and more clearly.  I expressed that I would every much like to know God better and more fully, to be a companion with It.