There are very few people who post on this forum any more.  Recently, a number of posts have come by warning people against exploring consciousness and the afterlife.  Stating that evil is lurking out there, or worse yet, damnation from the almighty, with biblical references and all.  And what anyone can see in the posts from these people are two irrefutable facts; the first is that they are afraid.  They are frightened and in trying to understand what has been discussed and explored, they choose fear over understanding.  The second obvious fact about those who warn everyone about exploration, is that the fearful ones are not really exploring themselves.  It is the blind leading the blind. 

And what is even more clear, is that the whole notion of evil lurking in every meditation, in every attempt to explore is nonsense.  Countless people have tried, and while few are adept astral travelers, most have positive experiences.  You see, while your intellect may be led astray, your spiritual body, the force of love you share, makes you resonate for lack of a better term at a frequency.  Ill meaning and low level entities may try to bring your thinking and emotions down to their level, but since they are on such a different level as most good people, there is usually no sway that negatives will have over anyone, unless you willingly relinquish your thought and power to them.

Many explorers have commented that those on hellish planes can not visit higher planes at will.  They see as if nothing is present there.  Also, the feelings of love and good intention is distinctly uncomfortable for them.  Like attracts like in spirit and the afterlife. 

The mind body connection of each of us, the "silver cord" we have, is as close to an unbreakable bond as there can be in the universe (until our physical bodies perish). 

Most sources do recommend setting intention prior to any exploration, which may invoke protection for the highest good.  Intention so set usually has a powerful effect on getting assistance and having an experience which is positive. 

But it would be wrong to read the handful of posts of late and conclude that exploration is evil, and should be avoided at all costs.  Is discernment necessary?  Yes.  Is it wise to believe everything on face value?  Of course not.  But the fear and fire and brimstone written about is not warranted.

M

  More or less agree. It seems that people tend to go to extremes with this whole subject.  Some people advise against all or any contact, exploration, etc because of negative forces or beings, and those that seem to think there are no negative forces/beings or that if there are, they are always no big deal. 

   I've found that reality is somewhere in between the two extremes and polar opposites, and while discernment is important, there is no need for fear to the point of complete passiveness. 

  For an example, while i've had experiences and/or guidance that indicate there are misleading and even semi powerful negative beings out there, i don't live in fear of them, nor let them control whether or not i decide to explore.  It's more akin to the detached caution i might feel when hiking in a place with a lot of disease carrying ticks, Grizzles, or some other potential challenge or difficulty.  I acknowledge the potential danger, take due precautions in a pragmatic, detached way, but still go out there.  If i went to a prison with a lot of psychopaths in same, sure, i would be more vigilant than usual.

   If you understand the basic laws and reactions built into the whole system, especially that of Like attracts, begets, and resonates with Like, and if you understand and know that guidance, both limited and expanded/unlimited, exist, then with some wisdom, discernment, and attuning to the creative-constructive within and without, then these can help one to steer clear of any major traps without.

  But you still have to deal with your own shadow side, which can be tricky enough if you're unconscious to it.   

   I've also learned that as you grow and mature, sometimes guidance will help you less, and hold your hand less so to speak.  You may have to, eventually when you're strong, balanced, and wise enough, deal with certain hindering forces without much shielding or overt help. 

But expanded guidance knows us, in many ways, better than we do ourselves, and they are wise enough to know when to help or not help depending on the need and relativity involved. Sometimes we are stronger than we realize, and other times, less strong than we think--expanded guidance knows which is going on.

   While i don't have a lot of faith in self or in other humans necessarily, i do have a lot of faith and trust in expanded guidance, and i've found that discerning the difference between helpful and non helpful outside influences, while it can be tricky at times, if deeper intuition is attuned to,  it makes it much simpler.  Expanded guidance always comes with certain feelings, which are positive and expanding in essence, whereas hindering influences tend to feel off or negative in some way.   

   That which we are, emanates out from us, especially nonphyscially and to our nonphysical senses.  It's when we're overly attuned to our human side that we can get tricked or mislead, the more we attune to our Expanded self, spiritual core self side, the more we see through and into different beings and realities. 

  A combo of deep meditation combined with purposeful, directed prayer, helps us to attune more to that spiritual, expanded, wiser side of self.  And above all, putting effort into living a more loving, helpful, positive and service oriented life helps same.  The two in combo are very powerful, especially when practiced consistently. 

DocM wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 4:34pm:

There are very few people who post on this forum any more.  Recently, a number of posts have come by warning people against exploring consciousness and the afterlife.  Stating that evil is lurking out there, or worse yet, damnation from the almighty, with biblical references and all.  And what anyone can see in the posts from these people are two irrefutable facts; the first is that they are afraid.  They are frightened and in trying to understand what has been discussed and explored, they choose fear over understanding.  The second obvious fact about those who warn everyone about exploration, is that the fearful ones are not really exploring themselves.  It is the blind leading the blind.  And what is even more clear, is that the whole notion of evil lurking in every meditation, in every attempt to explore is nonsense.  Countless people have tried, and while few are adept astral travelers, most have positive experiences.  You see, while your intellect may be led astray, your spiritual body, the force of love you share, makes you resonate for lack of a better term at a frequency.  Ill meaning and low level entities may try to bring your thinking and emotions down to their level, but since they are on such a different level as most good people, there is usually no sway that negatives will have over anyone, unless you willingly relinquish your thought and power to them. Many explorers have commented that those on hellish planes can not visit higher planes at will.  They see as if nothing is present there.  Also, the feelings of love and good intention is distinctly uncomfortable for them.  Like attracts like in spirit and the afterlife.  The mind body connection of each of us, the "silver cord" we have, is as close to an unbreakable bond as there can be in the universe (until our physical bodies perish).  Most sources do recommend setting intention prior to any exploration, which may invoke protection for the highest good.  Intention so set usually has a powerful effect on getting assistance and having an experience which is positive.  But it would be wrong to read the handful of posts of late and conclude that exploration is evil, and should be avoided at all costs.  Is discernment necessary?  Yes.  Is it wise to believe everything on face value?  Of course not.  But the fear and fire and brimstone written about are not warranted. M

Doc it is easy for you to make suggestions about the safety of OOBE but you have never experienced one yourself and  thus, you are disqualified in commenting on them as some sort of an expert, which you are not!!.

Are you a psychiatrist or psychologist or priest or mystic that you can tell from the other side of the world whether a person is afraid or has a real reason to be afraid or just blowing off hot air to irritate others.?

I know you are referring to me and you have no way of knowing what is really going on in my mind unless you become a world-class telepath which I know you are not

-----------------------------------------------------------

There is terrible danger in the OOBE event such as what happened to me below.


Start of experiences as an adult

Out of body experience on afternoon at Vaal Power Station

At about the age of twenty-seven, at Vaal Power station (where I worked at the time), in the afternoon at about 3 pm my wife and I were having a nap and instead of going to sleep as I expected,

I entered a cataleptic state that I now know is Hypnagogic sleep. In other words, I was unable to move my body (sleep paralysis).

I was aware of my surroundings and that I was laying on the bed next to my wife. Then in the area of my head, an extreme vibration and buzzing began to shake my whole body. I tried and tried to move to no avail at first, and then something weird began to happen.

I found myself (Awareness/consciousness) hovering just below the ceilings, looking down on the bodies of my wife and can still remember the red bed cover. That indicates some sort of mind- sight.

I did not like this experience, feeling some sort of a malicious/malignant type of evil being was watching me all the time.

in addition, the vibration and buzzing were very unpleasant. However, this sleep paralysis vibration started to happen more and more spontaneously until in another spontaneous OOBE I found myself outside the house one night looking up at the stars.

My consciousness awareness seemed to have separated from my sleeping body. I then began to take a real interest in this phenomenon and was lead to read a book by Robert Monroe and found the term then used was astral travel.

OOBE'S was considered evil or even by my then Christian friends who advised me to stop as my vacant body could be possessed by an evil entity while I was travelling into other realities

I did not interact with those who have passed on but appeared to remain within the material realities. However, I did experience some frightening things, such as coming back in horror to the wrong body.

This person was in a small prison cell somewhere and I really got a fright and immediately found myself back in my own body.

At times, I seemed to have dual awareness in that I became somehow two beings, my sleeping self-communicating with my ethereal self.

Another time I found myself inside the body of a man, who was in the process of being murdered by a knife blade, I felt it go into my body and experiences such horrible pain and realised to my utter horror that I was actually dying?

Taking their advice, I stopped trying to exit the body when the catatonic sleep paralysis came at night and eventually these experienced ceased for many years.

Later again I started to have other spontaneously experience all types of other .

<<But it would be wrong to read the handful of posts of late and conclude that exploration is evil, and should be avoided at all costs.  Is discernment necessary?  Yes.  Is it wise to believe everything on face value?  Of course not.  But the fear and fire and brimstone written about is not warranted.>>

"Doc", you're missing the point.  The point was that venturing into the unknown is not a harmless exercise.  To encourage people to do this, not knowing who they are and especially what their emotional makeup is, is irresponsible at best. It's not fear, it's just common sense.

You of all people should know the maxim "first, do no harm."

R

If unfriendly influences exist, you don't have to go out of body in order to be influenced by them.

If you keep your house (self) clean and use your discrimination, you should be okay. This is so regardless of whether or not you make contact with the spirit world in some way.

Say you do something as basic as meditate with the intent of trying to experience divine love and peace. The way I view it, when you connect to such a level of being, you connect to the world of spirit, even if you don't become conscious of the presence of spirit beings in some way.

The source of everything, God if you like, is not separate from divine love.  Therefore, if you experience divine love and therefore that energy level, you connect to God and all who abide with him.

I believe it would be a mistake to avoid such a connection, because we are afraid of unfriendly influences. If we want to open up to our spirit selves and their connection to God, then we can't let unfriendly influences prevent us from opening up to the spirit level of our being.

A number of years ago I was meditating one night and it felt like my awareness would really expand, but I was afraid to expand in such a way, because I was concerned that I would make contact with unfriendly beings. Then I experienced myself in like a Costco (discount store) and people with empty shopping carts blocked my way. I didn't get the meaning right away, but then I understood. The empty shopping carts were symbols for hungry ghosts. Unfriendly influences are hungry for the energy of others because they have cut themselves off from the source of all energy. What is the point of being afraid of beings who have cut themselve off from the source of all energy, when you are connected to such source? The more wholeheartedly you connect yourself to such source (God), the less you need to be afraid of unfriendly influences.

Roger,

I agree with Albert, and quite frankly I'm surprised at your position here.  I always go by the "do no harm."  And it is the fear based response that I see that does the most harm.  Why?  Because fear is the opposite of love.  The opposite of what the whole system is set up to experience.  And so for all I know about you, your response is surprising.

Consciousness is what it is, whether we are exploring in the incarnate world or the afterlife.  In some ways, it is actually more difficult to get into trouble with a directed meditation/projection over there than it is over here!  Why is that, you ask?  Quite simple, really.  In the earth plane, you have people of different degrees of consciousness all on a level playing field.  When you go out to any public place, there is a random likelihood of encountering a soul with evil intent clothed in a body just like one who is angelic.  In fact, many appear beautiful on the outside while harboring an ugliness and evil that is severe on the inside. 

In the mental planes and consciousness realms, it is much more difficult to hide who you really are.  Also, over there, as everywhere, the law of "like attracts like" applies.  Focus 27, "the park" and other places generally good people go when they pass on are not populated by people bent on evil.  In account after account of adepts, it is clear that their afterlife experience is, quite different. 

So I would argue that you are more likely to meet up with someone bent on hurting you in the physical world than there.  Also, the idea, that you can take an average person, and either sway them into evil action or have another horrible fate such as a possession befall them at the drop of a hat.  Of course, if someone is unbalanced, suffering from emotional problems, they could run into negative experiences since they are open to it.  I would never encourage anyone like that to explore.  But that is the exception, not the rule. 

So, yes, there are negatives out there, but in general, they are not able to populate planes where loving people exist.  To be there for any length of time would be like a poison to them.  Now if, while beginning to meditate someone gets a negative communication on one of the lowest planes, one can always break off the communication.  This happened to me once, during a hemi-sync meditation.  And although it was jarring and brief, it was a rare exception to many positive experiences.

Roger, you should also know that when you enter into sleep, your astral form roams freely.  Worse yet, you and I are less rational in the sleep state than when awake.  Yet I bet you got a great night's sleep last night, and for the most part, you wake up every morning feeling refreshed.  By your way of thinking, and Alan's we should never sleep again!  The whole way of thinking is skewed.

So would I caution an unstable person about exploration?  Of course.  I would probably tell that person to seek counseling and help just because they were unstable or disturbed anyway.  But I still contend that the "be afraid" response is and of itself unhealthy, and leads to closing yourself off to possibilities and a direct knowing that we are more than our egos and our physical bodies.

Matthew

I agree with both Matthew and Albert.  It is true that, as FDR once said, the only thing we have to fear is, fear itself.  Fear is the enemy.  Fear is what prevents you from being all that you can be.  Fear causes confusion, uncertainty and disorder.  Fear is NEVER helpful other than for showing us the difference between the meanings of fear and love. 

Most of us understand fear very well, but what we don't seem to get is that as long as you have a lot of fear within, you most likely will not be able to explore the non-physical anyway, or if someone that is fearful does manage to have an oobe the experience is most likely to only provide them with positive results as a way to "wake" them up, by giving them a beneficial experience, not one to their own detriment, because that is how the consciousness system works.  It works for its own profitability.  It is evolving, not de-evolving.

Most people think from a little picture perspective, or from the bottom up, and not from a big picture perspective, or the top down.  None of us is truly separated from our Soul (higher self, true self) or from God. NEVER!  It is only from this little ELS perspective that we believe we are separate and that is intended so we can interact with each other.  In fact, we all are oob right now.  Our thoughts and our consciousness is non-physical.  Thoughts and consciousness are not created by the brain, they are beyond the physical and only constrained by the brain and the conditions set forth in our physicality as sentient beings. 

In truth we are our Soul, which is only a teeny bit of our earthly consciousness.  We are never disconnected or separated.  Your Soul is you and you are your Soul at all times, especially when you are aware of being out of body.  Your human consciousness is always protected by your Soul consciousness.  If the Soul consciousness allows for you to have an experience with say a "negative being" or the perception of a negative being, then it may be testing you to see how ready you are to explore the non-physical, though everyone does go out of body not only while sleeping, but while participating in everyday tasks.  Anytime you are not aware of your body, you are out of body, most often you are multitasking with a part of your consciousness "here" and another part "there" and not even aware of it because it is a natural process.  And that is what needs to be stressed.  It is a natural process!

Out of body experience is very natural and very normal.  It is not something to be feared.  You are always safe, even when you think you're not.  Your fear will limit your ability to go very far in exploring the non-physical, however.  And that's a shame because there is so much we can do to help each other when we're able to maintain a higher point of consciousness for longer periods of time.

K

Apparently i was gone so long from this site, that i've become a ghost, and only a few folks can now see/perceive my presence...

:D  ;D

Perhaps this forum needs to burn some sage.  :)


wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 12:39pm:

Apparently i was gone so long from this site, that i've become a ghost, and only a few folks can now see/perceive my presence... :D  ;D

Hi Justin!  :) 

I read this thread a couple days ago and I do agree with what you said, too.  I didn't intend to not acknowledge your post, I just forgot you had posted, too.  Hmmm... short term memory must not be what it use to be.  :D

It's fascinating how my concerns about afterlife exploration have morphed into people thinking I'm expressing fear of such ventures.  Nowhere did I express fear.  To reiterate, my concerns have to do with people who are not prepared for the kind of experiences they might have, or the entities they might encounter.  For someone with emotional instabilities of one kind or another, such experiences may very well be traumatic and have long lasting effects.

That was, and is, my concern. It has nothing to do with fear of the afterlife.  I suspect that's why Swedenborg cautioned others not to attempt to do what he did.  Not everyone is able to distinguish between what is real and what is a deliberate attempt to deceive.  And as most of us know, ES warned that the afterlife is full of deception.  It's not something to be taken lightly.

R

rondele wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 3:05pm:

It's fascinating how my concerns about afterlife exploration have morphed into people thinking I'm expressing fear of such ventures.  Nowhere did I express fear.  ... R

Its projection. You see all of Freud's defence mechanisms amongst them.

Those who campaign against fear are the real chickens.

Roger,

I noted the fear that had entered into the forum.  The talk was fearful, almost suggesting that it may be too dangerous to explore, and the nonsense that we should be afraid if we were seeking answers...afraid of a wrathful God.  Ridiculous words from some folks wracked by their own fears and belief systems.  And normally, I would not have spoken up, as I haven't been active here in a while.  But it struck me that this once brilliant forum might be read by Newbies and that these words might scare them away.  If people look back in the topics over the years here, there is a lot of useful, insightful information into the nature of consciousness and our ability to explore it to understand what it means to be human.

The afterlife is consciousness.  The physical life is consciousness.  The "I am" is present in different planes.  The warnings that an unstable mind might get into peril is, to a large part overstated, and not supported by evidence.

Most exploration of consciousness takes the ability to relax, into deep meditative states in a way that an anxious, depressed or bipolar/manic mind can not readily achieve.  Thus, the very people who you worry about falling prey to evil doers, would likely not reach a state of "mind awake, body asleep" that is associated with a launch into other states of consciousness.  It took me weeks of practice to get to Focus 12 and similar states, even before exploring further. 

My contention is that most exploration is quite safe and that our natural ties to our physical body are among the most secure connection (hence our ability to leave the body during sleep and return every morning without fail).  I also feel quite certain that on most higher planes of consciousness, ill meaning entities can't bother us as we are at different levels of vibration/frequency 

That being said, certain communication such as EVP, mediums, and ouija boards allow lower level communications into the physical world.  As such, these communications should be viewed with the understanding that deception is more common when you are relying on an intermediary source.

Roger, I did not mean to imply that you personally are afraid of the afterlife.  I just saw a trend.  For me, the forum was always at its strongest when the conversations explored the nature of who and what we are; the nature of love, and how knowledge we gathered from exploring could be taken back into our every day lives.  The fear based ramblings and negative smears against Swedenborg, Bruce and others appeared to be backward, closed minded drivel.  To hear you, who I have always respected, chime in with an "amen" to those threads was a real shock to me. 

N

1796:

Is being charming one of the traits your soul is working on this lifetime? If so, I guess the world will see you during your next incarnation.  ;D



1796 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 8:03pm:

rondele wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 3:05pm: It's fascinating how my concerns about afterlife exploration have morphed into people thinking I'm expressing fear of such ventures.  Nowhere did I express fear.  ... R Its projection. You see all of Freud's defence mechanisms amongst them. Those who campaign against fear are the real chickens.

DocM wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 11:48pm:

Roger, I noted the fear that had entered into the forum.  The talk was fearful, almost suggesting that it may be too dangerous to explore, and the nonsense that we should be afraid if we were seeking answers...afraid of a wrathful God.  Ridiculous words from some folks wracked by their own fears and belief systems.  ...  ... blah blah (Insertion: It is evident the "Doctor" has had no psych training at all, or was sleeping in class that day, perhaps astral traveling - 1796) ... ...  The fear based ramblings and negative smears against Swedenborg, Bruce and others appeared to be backward, closed minded drivel.  To hear you, who I have always respected, chime in with an "amen" to those threads was a real shock to me.  N

Is this Rondele's offensive "amen" to which you refer, fourth post down, to some comments on the Lord's Prayer?:

http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1454149444/6

I made the second post on that thread, which was one of those that Rondele responded to, and although I am reasonably experienced in consciously leaving the body, I have also made comments about a need for right motive, right personal conditioning, and caution. I have even put such an advice in my signature, which I hope is helpful to some, even if it irritates others. So are you talking about me, Doctor?

No,

I am not talking about you personally, and was not aware of your other thread.  If you read through the threads over the past month, denigrating Bruce, the concept of astral travel or exploration, and the warnings thrown in about a wrathful deity, these have occupied the board, and although one person may post more than another, the call to action for myself was the unopposed fear that lay behind it, not to point the finger at one person.  Hence the title of my thread, "Fear of Afterlife Exploration."

I have no problem with Amens.  Say it myself.  But when one poster warns of eternal damnation of the soul for ridiculous reasons, and it remains unchallanged, well in my mind that requires a response. 

With regard to right intention, right action; that is a principle of buddhism which is shared by many spiritual people, myself included.   I am in whole hearted agreement with you on those ideas.


Matthew

Some people have responded to Alan's fear-based posts, but he wrote so many--how many times should a person respond?

This subject reminds me of what happens with some near death experience accounts on youtube. Some people describe wonderful experiences where they experienced vast unconditional love. But if they don't say anyting about Jesus, some fundamentalist Christian's will comment that such NDErs were fooled by Satan.

Such fundamentalists are so entrapped by their fear, that they don't seem ask themselves how a being such as Satan could share vast unconditional love with people.  If such a being existed, he would radiate hate, anger and an evil feeling, not divine love. If you go by the Bible, Jesus said that you will know them by their fruits. Unconditional love is a wonderful fruit.


DocM wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 7:45am:

No, I am not talking about you personally, and was not aware of your other thread.  If you read through the threads over the past month, denigrating Bruce, the concept of astral travel or exploration, and the warnings thrown in about a wrathful deity, these have occupied the board, and although one person may post more than another, the call to action for myself was the unopposed fear that lay behind it, not to point the finger at one person.  Hence the title of my thread, "Fear of Afterlife Exploration." I have no problem with Amens.  Say it myself.  But when one poster warns of eternal damnation of the soul for ridiculous reasons, and it remains unchallanged, well in my mind that requires a response.  With regard to right intention, right action; that is a principle of buddhism which is shared by many spiritual people, myself included.   I am in whole hearted agreement with you on those ideas. Matthew

Very good points, recoverer.

Quote:

But if they don't say anyting about Jesus, some fundamentalist Christian's will comment that such NDErs were fooled by Satan.

and even when NDEs do reference Jesus, they rarely (if ever) support fundamentalist doctrine.

recoverer wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 12:43pm:

Perhaps this forum needs to burn some sage.  :) wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 12:39pm: Apparently i was gone so long from this site, that i've become a ghost, and only a few folks can now see/perceive my presence... :D  ;D

  Ah, touche pussy-gato.  Sage me up, love the smell of sage!

  No worries Kathy, i just saw an opportunity for some korny humor.  Thank you for the reply/acknowledgement.

DocM wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 7:45am:

No, I am not talking about you personally, and was not aware of your other thread.  If you read through the threads over the past month, denigrating Bruce, the concept of astral travel or exploration, and the warnings thrown in about a wrathful deity, these have occupied the board, and although one person may post more than another, the call to action for myself was the unopposed fear that lay behind it, not to point the finger at one person.  Hence the title of my thread, "Fear of Afterlife Exploration." I have no problem with Amens.  Say it myself.  But when one poster warns of eternal damnation of the soul for ridiculous reasons, and it remains unchallanged, well in my mind that requires a response.  With regard to right intention, right action; that is a principle of buddhism which is shared by many spiritual people, myself included.   I am in whole hearted agreement with you on those ideas. Matthew

There is a real way to explore the afterlife, as a factual experience is to die or kill yourself.

Of course, then you cannot come back and tell anyone and therein, lies our dilemma??

Bruces stuff about disc levels are just the invention of his imagination and do not exist in this or any other reality.

It is wrong, even fraudulent to claim your imagined fiction is fact and make a good living out of it, like Bruce does, with innocent gullible people who are desperate for ultimate truth.

He should qualify everything he writes in his many nonsensical obscure books. Or set a disclaimer on all his stuff and 'LECTURES, before going around spouting nonsense all over the US and beyond its borders.

He has never had the honesty to do even that!

It would be OK if he publishes his works and fiction as origination from his excellent imagination, but sadly he goes on misleading people into believing what he says and writes is the truth, based on factual experiences of which he has had none ZERO

The name of this forum Afterlife Knowledge is an 'Oxymoron"?

  Alan, many (probably most) here have very different perceptions and perspectives on all this stuff.  You will be very hard pressed to change our minds or hearts in general, but especially with such forcefulness, anger, and judgmental scorn behind your words.

  Positive exampling, and holistic logic may help to open some minds and hearts to your messages, but only if people resonate with those messages, or if they have deeper truth. 

  One of the things that i'm trying to work on is learning to consistently maintain is a good balance between Yin (receptivity/passivness), and Yang (outpouring/activiteness), especially in my expression and interaction with others. 

  It's not an easy process to keep up consistently, but i do think it's worthwhile to try.

  I've had plenty of experiences and messages that support a lot of what Bruce Moen and others talk about here.  Perhaps the only main area that we disagree on, is that i think there are "some" very clever, very negative, and potentially influential ET's involved with humanity that are trying to keep humans stuck. 

   Also, i've met and interacted with Bruce on a couple different occasions, both in a more formal and informal setting.  While Bruce is not at the level of Yeshua as of yet, he is a fundamentally good and honorable person, a person of high ideals and integrity, with a fairly strong attunement to PUL all in all. From all appearances (i've been in his house), he lives modestly. And i've been more vocally critical of some of Bruce's stances than most here so i'm not a blind fanboy, worshiper of his.  Bruce is NOT my "guru".  The only Teacher i consistently look to is Yeshua (Jesus), and i meet/commune with him within my heart and Soul. 

    Consider trying this Alan, ask to connect with only the most positive, helpful-constructive, Loving, and God and Yeshua (Jesus) connected Beings, and ask them to shield you from any hindering, misleading, or ignorant Beings.  Ask the former for help in strengthening and centering self. 

 

   

Quote:

One of the things that i'm trying to work on is learning to consistently maintain is a good balance between Yin (receptivity/passivness), and Yang (outpouring/activiteness), especially in my expression and interaction with others.

   Yes, Justin, I feel that is the key for which I strive to maintain as much as possible. Besides believing that I have chimerism (both male and female DNA) which may give me a physical head start, balancing Yin and Yang in anyone has great benefits for mental, emotional, and physical stability while physically incarnate. Robert Monroe's he/she is a prime example.

   Not only that, but I feel it has been a key in my conquering fear of exploration into the other side. The more I learn and experience, the easier it gets to maintain a balance and loss of any fears, both in this physical life and in my meditations and dreams. I really look forward now into my journeys.

   After belonging to Christianity (first), Buddhism (second), Eckankar/Sant Mat (third) and Judaism (fourth), I have resorted back to being an agnostic convinced that God (he/she/it) is benevolent to all sentient beings and doesn't pick sides like some sort of all powerful game show host. Eckankar/Sant Mat probably was the closest of the religions I previously joined which taught that God was a sound force existing throughout all creation which split into light and sound below the higher planes/focus levels/frequencies which exist outside the physical realm.

Ralph

Ralph

    I over simplified it a bit for brevity's sake (another thing i'm working on :) ). 

There are times and places to express a more pure Yang attunement or Yin attunement in interaction with others.  But generally speaking, balancing and blending is more preferable.

  Re: DNA, my understanding is that DNA isn't inherently male or female, but does control or strongly influence chromosomatic expression which does relate to gender.  I also think that our consciousness can influence DNA and the latter some too. 

   Regarding He/She, i'm about 99% certain that the identity of that person is none other than Yeshua.  It seems that Bob was almost anti-religious for awhile, but for some reason, at some mid to latter point in his life, he became interested in finding out more or perhaps more accurately corroborating data, on the historical figure--Yeshua (Jesus). 

     He had his then friend at one point, Joe McMoneagle, do a remote viewing session on a target in an envelope according to Joe.  Joe picked up pretty fairly quickly that the target was Jesus (which it was).   Interestingly, some of the info from that session correlates with info that Cayce's guidance gives about him both physically and spiritually.  Physically that Yeshua had reddish colored hair, and that this being has incarnated a number of times for the purpose of influencing humanity in a positive/spiritual way. 

      Interestingly, Joe did not remain conscious to the session.  I think the info he was picking up on, was so far faster vibrating than what he was used to attuning to, his conscious personality self had to "click out" so to speak, and he couldn't remember much of anything of the session, except that this larger being that Jesus was connected to and was, had a deep sense of joy.  (Similar to Edgar Cayce and how he rarely could remember the contents of a reading). 

   To me, Yeshua has little to do with religion, and is way beyond religion.  I didn't come to him through religion. Unfortunately though, most put him a box of religion.

   Anyways, if He/She does happen to be Yeshua, then He/She is only a blend on a consciousness level, as according to Cayce's guidance and the Shroud of Turin info, Yeshua had a fairly masculine physical form. 

   So the physical need not reflect or harmonize with the consciousness for this to work. 

  There was a time in humanity's earlier development when it did more so, but that time was when what we perceive as matter was less "set" and more fluidic than now--closer to the level that some call and label the "etheric".  This is in various sources, but Cayce's guidance talks a lot about it.

According to Cayce's own past life readings about his and his Twin Soul's Soul history, at one point he and his twin Soul were still One in spirit/mind/body, and incarnated in one of the last true androgynous forms in late, near end of Atlantis period (some 14,000 years ago)--and like the earlier versions/incarnations of these more "godlike" androgynous beings, had more creative abilities and direct mind/consciousness control of the physical.

  To my knowledge, none of these earlier forms of humans have been found or at least not publicly discussed, so i have to remain a bit skeptical to it (though the Egyptian leader Akhenaten seems to have had a more blended body in some ways).  However, as you touched upon, occasionally some individuals today are born more blended than usual, perhaps kind of a shadow of that possible former expression.  As to whether those current individuals tend to a have greater ability than average to tap into the creative force, remains to be seen.  Some have been exceptional athletes, but that has little to do with spiritual attunement all in all and mostly has been female looking competors with higher than average testosterone levels because of the greater female-male blending. 

   Pollution, drugs during fetus development, inbreeding,  and radiation can probably contribute to such alternations too, and so it's not necessarily always or even usually a consciousness or spiritual thing in our times--sometimes it's just a physical expression.   

   

   

DocM wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 4:34pm:

There are very few people who post on this forum any more.  Recently, a number of posts have come by warning people against exploring consciousness and the afterlife.  Stating that evil is lurking out there, or worse yet, damnation from the almighty, with biblical references and all.  And what anyone can see in the posts from these people are two irrefutable facts; the first is that they are afraid.  They are frightened and in trying to understand what has been discussed and explored, they choose fear over understanding.  The second obvious fact about those who warn everyone about exploration, is that the fearful ones are not really exploring themselves.  It is the blind leading the blind.  And what is even more clear, is that the whole notion of evil lurking in every meditation, in every attempt to explore is nonsense.  Countless people have tried, and while few are adept astral travelers, most have positive experiences.  You see, while your intellect may be led astray, your spiritual body, the force of love you share, makes you resonate for lack of a better term at a frequency.  Ill meaning and low level entities may try to bring your thinking and emotions down to their level, but since they are on such a different level as most good people, there is usually no sway that negatives will have over anyone, unless you willingly relinquish your thought and power to them. Many explorers have commented that those on hellish planes can not visit higher planes at will.  They see as if nothing is present there.  Also, the feelings of love and good intention is distinctly uncomfortable for them.  Like attracts like in spirit and the afterlife.  The mind body connection of each of us, the "silver cord" we have, is as close to an unbreakable bond as there can be in the universe (until our physical bodies perish).  Most sources do recommend setting intention prior to any exploration, which may invoke protection for the highest good.  Intention so set usually has a powerful effect on getting assistance and having an experience which is positive.  But it would be wrong to read the handful of posts of late and conclude that exploration is evil, and should be avoided at all costs.  Is discernment necessary?  Yes.  Is it wise to believe everything on face value?  Of course not.  But the fear and fire and brimstone written about is not warranted. M

Good post Mathew but the promotion of fear is not restricted to this forum. Fear is everywhere: fear of ISIS,fear of financial meltdown,fear of environmental collapse, fear of aging, fear of not being good enough etc etc. and like gravity it holds us down.But what is there to fear? Death of the physical body is inevitable- it may be car accident, disease, war-related, old age etc. but it is going to happen whatever we do. But what if we are inherently immortal spiritual beings enjoying a brief physical sojourn, what is their to fear then? Eternal damnation? - what possible motive would a loving God have for that? Possession? - We are going to lose our physical bodies anyway: let them have it if the invading entity wants it so badly! The truth is there is nothing to fear if we believe we are essentially immortal beings.

Some people are scared of fear. They even think fear should be banned. They talk about having the right not to be afraid. Its a common attitude in some circles.

DocM wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 5:54am:

Roger, I agree with Albert, and quite frankly I'm surprised at your position here.  I always go by the "do no harm."  And it is the fear based response that I see that does the most harm.  Why?  Because fear is the opposite of love.  The opposite of what the whole system is set up to experience.  And so for all I know about you, your response is surprising. Consciousness is what it is, whether we are exploring in the incarnate world or the afterlife.  In some ways, it is actually more difficult to get into trouble with a directed meditation/projection over there than it is over here!  Why is that, you ask?  Quite simple, really.  In the earth plane, you have people of different degrees of consciousness all on a level playing field.  When you go out to any public place, there is a random likelihood of encountering a soul with evil intent clothed in a body just like one who is angelic.  In fact, many appear beautiful on the outside while harboring an ugliness and evil that is severe on the inside.  In the mental planes and consciousness realms, it is much more difficult to hide who you really are.  Also, over there, as everywhere, the law of "like attracts like" applies.  Focus 27, "the park" and other places generally good people go when they pass on are not populated by people bent on evil.  In account after account of adepts, it is clear that their afterlife experience is, quite different.  So I would argue that you are more likely to meet up with someone bent on hurting you in the physical world than there.  Also, the idea, that you can take an average person, and either sway them into evil action or have another horrible fate such as a possession befall them at the drop of a hat.  Of course, if someone is unbalanced, suffering from emotional problems, they could run into negative experiences since they are open to it.  I would never encourage anyone like that to explore.  But that is the exception, not the rule.  So, yes, there are negatives out there, but in general, they are not able to populate planes where loving people exist.  To be there for any length of time would be like a poison to them.  Now if, while beginning to meditate someone gets a negative communication on one of the lowest planes, one can always break off the communication.  This happened to me once, during a hemi-sync meditation.  And although it was jarring and brief, it was a rare exception to many positive experiences. Roger, you should also know that when you enter into sleep, your astral form roams freely.  Worse yet, you and I are less rational in the sleep state than when awake.  Yet I bet you got a great night's sleep last night, and for the most part, you wake up every morning feeling refreshed.  By your way of thinking, and Alan's we should never sleep again!  The whole way of thinking is skewed. So would I caution an unstable person about exploration?  Of course.  I would probably tell that person to seek counseling and help just because they were unstable or disturbed anyway.  But I still contend that the "be afraid" response is and of itself unhealthy, and leads to closing yourself off to possibilities and a direct knowing that we are more than our egos and our physical bodies. Matthew

Where do you dig up that fear is the opposite of love?

HATE IS THE OPPOSITE OF LOVE.

Fear is a very necessary attribute for human survival and not a negative as you state!

1796 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 2:20am:

Some people are scared of fear. They even think fear should be banned. They talk about having the right not to be afraid. Its a common attitude in some circles.

That statement makes no sense, whatsoever!

heisenberg69 wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 6:38am:

DocM wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 4:34pm: There are very few people who post on this forum any more.  Recently, a number of posts have come by warning people against exploring consciousness and the afterlife.  Stating that evil is lurking out there, or worse yet, damnation from the almighty, with biblical references and all.  And what anyone can see in the posts from these people are two irrefutable facts; the first is that they are afraid.  They are frightened and in trying to understand what has been discussed and explored, they choose fear over understanding.  The second obvious fact about those who warn everyone about exploration, is that the fearful ones are not really exploring themselves.  It is the blind leading the blind.  And what is even more clear, is that the whole notion of evil lurking in every meditation, in every attempt to explore is nonsense.  Countless people have tried, and while few are adept astral travelers, most have positive experiences.  You see, while your intellect may be led astray, your spiritual body, the force of love you share, makes you resonate for lack of a better term at a frequency.  Ill meaning and low level entities may try to bring your thinking and emotions down to their level, but since they are on such a different level as most good people, there is usually no sway that negatives will have over anyone, unless you willingly relinquish your thought and power to them. Many explorers have commented that those on hellish planes can not visit higher planes at will.  They see as if nothing is present there.  Also, the feelings of love and good intention is distinctly uncomfortable for them.  Like attracts like in spirit and the afterlife.  The mind body connection of each of us, the "silver cord" we have, is as close to an unbreakable bond as there can be in the universe (until our physical bodies perish).  Most sources do recommend setting intention prior to any exploration, which may invoke protection for the highest good.  Intention so set usually has a powerful effect on getting assistance and having an experience which is positive.  But it would be wrong to read the handful of posts of late and conclude that exploration is evil, and should be avoided at all costs.  Is discernment necessary?  Yes.  Is it wise to believe everything on face value?  Of course not.  But the fear and fire and brimstone written about is not warranted. M Good post Mathew but the promotion of fear is not restricted to this forum. Fear is everywhere: fear of ISIS,fear of financial meltdown,fear of environmental collapse, fear of aging, fear of not being good enough etc etc. and like gravity it holds us down.But what is there to fear? Death of the physical body is inevitable- it may be car accident, disease, war-related, old age etc. but it is going to happen whatever we do. But what if we are inherently immortal spiritual beings enjoying a brief physical sojourn, what is their to fear then? Eternal damnation? - what possible motive would a loving God have for that? Possession? - We are going to lose our physical bodies anyway: let them have it if the invading entity wants it so badly! The truth is there is nothing to fear if we believe we are essentially immortal beings.

Thus, we should not fear anything, tell that to the victims and last few survivors of Hitler's death camps the of the Holocaust

wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 10:21pm:

I over simplified it a bit for brevity's sake (another thing i'm working on :) ).  There are times and places to express a more pure Yang attunement or Yin attunement in interaction with others.  But generally speaking, balancing and blending is more preferable.   Re: DNA, my understanding is that DNA isn't inherently male or female, but does control or strongly influence chromosomatic expression which does relate to gender.  I also think that our consciousness can influence DNA and the latter some too.     Regarding He/She, i'm about 99% certain that the identity of that person is none other than Yeshua.  It seems that Bob was almost anti-religious for awhile, but for some reason, at some mid to latter point in his life, he became interested in finding out more or perhaps more accurately corroborating data, on the historical figure--Yeshua (Jesus).       He had his then friend at one point, Joe McMoneagle, do a remote viewing session on a target in an envelope according to Joe.  Joe picked up pretty fairly quickly that the target was Jesus (which it was).   Interestingly, some of the info from that session correlates with info that Cayce's guidance gives about him both physically and spiritually.  Physically that Yeshua had reddish colored hair, and that this being has incarnated a number of times for the purpose of influencing humanity in a positive/spiritual way.        Interestingly, Joe did not remain conscious to the session.  I think the info he was picking up on, was so far faster vibrating than what he was used to attuning to, his conscious personality self had to "click out" so to speak, and he couldn't remember much of anything of the session, except that this larger being that Jesus was connected to and was, had a deep sense of joy.  (Similar to Edgar Cayce and how he rarely could remember the contents of a reading).     To me, Yeshua has little to do with religion, and is way beyond religion.  I didn't come to him through religion. Unfortunately though, most put him a box of religion.    Anyways, if He/She does happen to be Yeshua, then He/She is only a blend on a consciousness level, as according to Cayce's guidance and the Shroud of Turin info, Yeshua had a fairly masculine physical form.     So the physical need not reflect or harmonize with the consciousness for this to work.    There was a time in humanity's earlier development when it did more so, but that time was when what we perceive as matter was less "set" and more fluidic than now--closer to the level that some call and label the "etheric".  This is in various sources, but Cayce's guidance talks a lot about it. According to Cayce's own past life readings about his and his Twin Soul's Soul history, at one point he and his twin Soul were still One in spirit/mind/body, and incarnated in one of the last true androgynous forms in late, near end of Atlantis period (some 14,000 years ago)--and like the earlier versions/incarnations of these more "godlike" androgynous beings, had more creative abilities and direct mind/consciousness control of the physical.   To my knowledge, none of these earlier forms of humans have been found or at least not publicly discussed, so i have to remain a bit skeptical to it (though the Egyptian leader Akhenaten seems to have had a more blended body in some ways).  However, as you touched upon, occasionally some individuals today are born more blended than usual, perhaps kind of a shadow of that possible former expression.  As to whether those current individuals tend to a have greater ability than average to tap into the creative force, remains to be seen.  Some have been exceptional athletes, but that has little to do with spiritual attunement all in all and mostly has been female looking competors with higher than average testosterone levels because of the greater female-male blending.     Pollution, drugs during fetus development, inbreeding,  and radiation can probably contribute to such alternations too, and so it's not necessarily always or even usually a consciousness or spiritual thing in our times--sometimes it's just a physical expression.

Who the heck is Yahshua, we are English speakers on this forum, join a Hebrew forum if you insist on using Hebrew names not here?

Jesus Christ is his English name, what is wrong with that because then everyone will know exactly who you are refering to

Ralph Buskey wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 1:03pm:

Quote:   One of the things that i'm trying to work on is learning to consistently maintain is a good balance between Yin (receptivity/passivness), and Yang (outpouring/activiteness), especially in my expression and interaction with others.     Yes, Justin, I feel that is the key for which I strive to maintain as much as possible. Besides believing that I have chimerism (both male and female DNA) which may give me a physical head start, balancing Yin and Yang in anyone has great benefits for mental, emotional, and physical stability while physically incarnate. Robert Monroe's he/she is a prime example.    Not only that, but I feel it has been a key in my conquering fear of exploration into the other side. The more I learn and experience, the easier it gets to maintain a balance and loss of any fears, both in this physical life and in my meditations and dreams. I really look forward now into my journeys.    After belonging to Christianity (first), Buddhism (second), Eckankar/Sant Mat (third) and Judaism (fourth), I have resorted back to being an agnostic convinced that God (he/she/it) is benevolent to all sentient beings and doesn't pick sides like some sort of all powerful game show host. Eckankar/Sant Mat probably was the closest of the religions I previously joined which taught that God was a sound force existing throughout all creation which split into light and sound below the higher planes/focus levels/frequencies which exist outside the physical realm. Ralph Ralph

Your gender marker indicates you are a male, but now you want me to believe that you are both male and female, for Gods sake choose which gender you are?

Almighty God presents himself as a male spirit, but in your view, he is a transgender .

God is not a sound force God is an Infinite Separate Mind that created all of the reality we see or do not see

Not this stupid entity or mindless energy and fairy tale rubbish that was invented by humanity.

Alan McDougall wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 6:11am:

1796 wrote on Apr 6th, 2016 at 2:20am: Some people are scared of fear. They even think fear should be banned. They talk about having the right not to be afraid. Its a common attitude in some circles. That statement makes no sense, whatsoever!

Yes, it is illogical, as any clear minded person can see.

<<Who the heck is Yahshua, we are English speakers on this forum, join a Hebrew forum if you insist on using Hebrew names not here?>>

Reminds me of when my wife and I joined a local gun club and we were part of a line of folks participating in trap shooting.  Instead of calling out "pull", signifying the RO to release the  pidgeon, I thought it'd be cool to call "bird" instead, which is the practice at our club in Canada.  I actually thought that would impress the other shooters.

A real no-no.  Not cool. I was gently admonished afterwards. "When in Rome" etc.  First and last time I pulled (pun intended) that stupid stunt.  Deliberately trying to be different in an attempt to impress others is a fool's errand.

R

R,

Ok, so you can be different to make an impression, and also you can be different. If calling out "bird" was what you had learnt and you were comfortable with, and the group were basically speaking the same language because they totally get what you are saying, being admonished for a so-called no-no can even call for the tight ass(es) to learn to unclench and also breathe with the stomach. That is a valid option too. Breathe in, purse the lips and breathe out, and notice how the cheeks are pulling apart.

1796 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 2:20am:

Some people are scared of fear. They even think fear should be banned. They talk about having the right not to be afraid. Its a common attitude in some circles.

Fearing fear is pretty contradictory- how about 'consciously choosing to move way from fear'. Why ban it? - that's imposing something from the outside, that would'nt change anything - change comes from within!

Alan McDougall wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 6:14am:

heisenberg69 wrote on Apr 5th, 2016 at 6:38am: DocM wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 4:34pm: There are very few people who post on this forum any more.  Recently, a number of posts have come by warning people against exploring consciousness and the afterlife.  Stating that evil is lurking out there, or worse yet, damnation from the almighty, with biblical references and all.  And what anyone can see in the posts from these people are two irrefutable facts; the first is that they are afraid.  They are frightened and in trying to understand what has been discussed and explored, they choose fear over understanding.  The second obvious fact about those who warn everyone about exploration, is that the fearful ones are not really exploring themselves.  It is the blind leading the blind.  And what is even more clear, is that the whole notion of evil lurking in every meditation, in every attempt to explore is nonsense.  Countless people have tried, and while few are adept astral travelers, most have positive experiences.  You see, while your intellect may be led astray, your spiritual body, the force of love you share, makes you resonate for lack of a better term at a frequency.  Ill meaning and low level entities may try to bring your thinking and emotions down to their level, but since they are on such a different level as most good people, there is usually no sway that negatives will have over anyone, unless you willingly relinquish your thought and power to them. Many explorers have commented that those on hellish planes can not visit higher planes at will.  They see as if nothing is present there.  Also, the feelings of love and good intention is distinctly uncomfortable for them.  Like attracts like in spirit and the afterlife.  The mind body connection of each of us, the "silver cord" we have, is as close to an unbreakable bond as there can be in the universe (until our physical bodies perish).  Most sources do recommend setting intention prior to any exploration, which may invoke protection for the highest good.  Intention so set usually has a powerful effect on getting assistance and having an experience which is positive.  But it would be wrong to read the handful of posts of late and conclude that exploration is evil, and should be avoided at all costs.  Is discernment necessary?  Yes.  Is it wise to believe everything on face value?  Of course not.  But the fear and fire and brimstone written about is not warranted. M Good post Mathew but the promotion of fear is not restricted to this forum. Fear is everywhere: fear of ISIS,fear of financial meltdown,fear of environmental collapse, fear of aging, fear of not being good enough etc etc. and like gravity it holds us down.But what is there to fear? Death of the physical body is inevitable- it may be car accident, disease, war-related, old age etc. but it is going to happen whatever we do. But what if we are inherently immortal spiritual beings enjoying a brief physical sojourn, what is their to fear then? Eternal damnation? - what possible motive would a loving God have for that? Possession? - We are going to lose our physical bodies anyway: let them have it if the invading entity wants it so badly! The truth is there is nothing to fear if we believe we are essentially immortal beings. Thus, we should not fear anything, tell that to the victims and last few survivors of Hitler's death camps the of the Holocaust

Alan- I would say that the holocaust was a very good example of what happens when fear wins.In this case the fears of the German people (in terrible economic times) were ruthlessly exploited by the Nazi party to foster hatred of minority groups especially Jews. But even in the terrible conditions of the camps there were examples of people refusing to give in to fear by selflessly giving their last crumbs of bread so that others might live.Victor Frankl ( a holocaust survivor) talks about this in some of his books.

Quote:

Thus, we should not fear anything, tell that to the victims and last few survivors of Hitler's death camps the of the Holocaust

Alan, as a sidenote, the "Good War" also includes German civilians.

"German cities will be subjected to an ordeal the like of which has never been experienced by a country in continuity, severity and magnitude. To achieve this end there are no lengths of violence to which we will not go." - Winston Churchill

http://goo.gl/wVjctE

"Don’t mind the five or more million Germans. Stalin will see to them. You will not have trouble with them: they will cease to exist." - Winston Churchill

http://goo.gl/vYRLTj

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/11/article-2276944-03644BD60000044D-755_634x444.jpg

wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 12:28pm:

Quote: Thus, we should not fear anything, tell that to the victims and last few survivors of Hitler's death camps the of the Holocaust Alan, as a sidenote, the "Good War" also includes German civilians. "German cities will be subjected to an ordeal the like of which has never been experienced by a country in continuity, severity and magnitude. To achieve this end there are no lengths of violence to which we will not go." - Winston Churchill http://goo.gl/wVjctE "Don’t mind the five or more million Germans. Stalin will see to them. You will not have trouble with them: they will cease to exist." - Winston Churchill http://goo.gl/vYRLTj http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/11/article-2276944-03644BD60000044D-755_634x444.jpg

Stop trying to justify a lesser evil be comparing it to a greater evil.

Hitler started the war and all the guilt of that terrible decision will sit on his shoulders at the great day of judgement.

What was Churchill supposed to do , sit back and let millions of his innocent people die by Hitler's sick ambitions?

Hitler and very sadly his people reaped what he sewed.

He was an evil tyrannical dictator and evil despot, while Churchill was a good man forced to do bad things.

Thre are no good wars of bad peaces   

Alan, I linked to a black & white photo in my previous post, but it is not only consisting of black and white like a notan picture. Neither is it justification of anything, but it is part of reality.

Hitler was at the top of the Nazi pyramid, and without the blocks of supporting Nazis below, what would Hitler do with his ideas?

What would Jesus do? What would God do?

Hate does not make you a good and strong man, so be it if your name is Alan or Churchill.

Churchill no doubt a great man and leader.  Thankfully he came along at the right time when Europe esp the UK was at maximum danger by a ruthless madman.

R

heisenberg69 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 11:38am:

1796 wrote on Apr 6th, 2016 at 2:20am: Some people are scared of fear. They even think fear should be banned. They talk about having the right not to be afraid. Its a common attitude in some circles. Fearing fear is pretty contradictory- how about 'consciously choosing to move way from fear'. Why ban it? - that's imposing something from the outside, that would'nt change anything - change comes from within!

Its not contradictory. You are not familiar with how it works. Emotionally engrossed people are often fearful of fear. Similarly, many people get anxious about having an anxiety attack; depressed about being depressed; angry at themselves at being angry, and so on. Emotions can easily fold over upon themselves, each new layer initiated by the preceding layer of emotion more than by the initial trigger. Thus the condition magnifies and self-perpetuates itself, even after the initial triggers are no longer present or relevant.
   

1796 is correct. Fear begets fear. In fact, some people flunk a lie detector test, even tho they are innocent, because they fear they will show fear when the key questions are posed. 

R

heisenberg69 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 11:38am:

Fearing fear is pretty contradictory- how about 'consciously choosing to move way from fear'. Why ban it? - that's imposing something from the outside, that would'nt change anything - change comes from within!

Yes, change does come from within.

***

Psychs encourage people to develop an external locus of control by continually asking them, "And how did that make you feel?"

They also encourage the propagating of legislation and policies that entitle people (mostly women and black/brown people) not to feel bullied, harassed, threatened, and if they do then it is someone else's fault, regardless of that someone else's intent. That is why so many workplace policy manuals have statements to the effect that workers/students have the right not to feel fearful, anxious, bullied etc. Its not really about banning those emotional states, its about cultivating in people an external locus of control, a belief that one's internal condition is a result of external effects.

People with an external locus of control are mostly unhappy envious people, and blame others/circumstances/society etc for their own inadequacies. They dislike the world around them, particularly society. Because they have an external locus of control they are easily externally manipulated -- mentally, emotionally and physically. People with external locus of control make perfect useful idiots. And from a psych's point of view they are good for business too.      

And Alan is correct in saying that the opposite of love is not fear but hate.

Love is wishing well for others, that they learn an grow with minimum suffering.

Hate is the desire to harm or to see harm done, or to stifle them, to hold them back. That is the opposite of love.

Fear though, is part of the survival instinct or survival drive. Fear exists for the management of it.

Personally, fear brings out my best. It prompts me to include prayer in what I do, and not to deal with the situation alone, but with God. But I admit there have been times when fear has caught me unprepared and has overwhelmed me and caused sluggishness of thought and not the best action. But even those times have been blessings because they have taught me lessons for the next time. I have frequently worked in dangerous situations, and still do occasionally as required. My stomach knots and twists prior to each time I have to enter a room and match myself against a threat. (no I am not a police officer) When those physical sensations occur then I know to breathe in from God into my soul, and out through my heart and continue forward, and let my mind be as clear as my heart will make it. Occasionally I have had cause to take an average person with me into such a place. They have usually turned white, feel sick and cannot think straight. Admittedly I could not do it without prayer - prayer being faith and communion with God. Part of my work has included teaching others how to manage fear.

Have you looked up at the clouds and seen different layers of cloud moving in different directions? That is because there are winds moving in different directions at different levels in the atmosphere. One seemingly strong wind at ground level blowing in one direction, and high up is another wind blowing in another direction that we cannot feel but it is stronger than the one that we feel at ground level. Fears are like that. We have different levels of fear, pushing us in different directions.

Someone may be faced with a threat or situation and their ground level fear of which they are most conscious tells them to turn and flee, or to do nothing, or walk on by and ignore. But high up near their own sun which is their soul, there is another fear less forceful upon them. It is the opposite fear; the fear that they may turn and flee, or do nothing, or walk on by. Afterwards, when the situation is over and the ground level fear is subsided, then they can feel their disappointment, and their higher fear. This is partly why witnesses to horrific events so often suffer ptsd more than do those who took part or those to whom it happened.

Can we see the difference between being fearful and being God fearing?

Before I enter a hostile situation, I am conscious of my ground level fear and its desire not to go forward. I am also conscious of that higher fear, the higher breeze up near my soul that would blow me forward toward the threat to do my work, and which, if I don't obey it, will punish me with regret afterwards. And so I go forward, against the ground level fear, and with the fear of God. For I know that the superficial safety to which the ground level fear would have me go toward has no reward for me, but the fear of God moves me forward towards a greater reward of conquering earth's little threats and providing me with a sense of duty accomplished and lessons learnt. 

The more we put the situation and our self in God's hands, the more potent is our prayer, and the more effectual is God's power through us and from us. It is a matter of handing over our self to God while continuing to do our duty to our best. This makes us our strongest self.               

rondele wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 5:17pm:

Churchill no doubt a great man and leader.  Thankfully he came along at the right time when Europe esp the UK was at maximum danger by a ruthless madman

No doubt one of several men with great responsibilities. The challenge with being a good guy, as opposed to a ruthless madman, is keeping an eye on both outward and inward standards.

wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 1:22pm:

Alan, I linked to a black & white photo in my previous post, but it is not only consisting of black and white like a notan picture. Neither is it justification of anything, but it is part of reality. Hitler was at the top of the Nazi pyramid, and without the blocks of supporting Nazis below, what would Hitler do with his ideas? What would Jesus do? What would God do? Hate does not make you a good and strong man, so be it if your name is Alan or Churchill.

No, and what you describe is not a reflection of reality. I have never even killed a bird in my life, but I would die for my family and friends, thus according to your silly logic. Where does that make me fit on your stupid pyramid?

Jesus/God are simply not part of this particular post of yours, why you included them beats me, it is illogical!

Churchill was not a man of hate can you get that through your thick skull?

Hitler was a man consumed by hate, can you get that  through your thick skull. And his hate made him a very strong man indeed some people estimate over 70 million people died directly because of his hate.

Stop equating Churchill a good man of the people, who was loved by all.

While he despised Hitler but would not give him the time od day to hate him, he called him that "Little Corporal"

While Hitler hid in one of his many bunkers during the war, in contrast, during the worst of the blitz or bombing of London, the Great Winston Churchill got off his butt and walked through the ruins of London encouraging his people.

Churchill was a colossal hero of his time, Hitler was most likely the evilest person to ever walk the earth, it is an offence to put them in the same box or somewhere on your stupid tower.

1796 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 8:02pm:

heisenberg69 wrote on Apr 6th, 2016 at 11:38am: Fearing fear is pretty contradictory- how about 'consciously choosing to move way from fear'. Why ban it? - that's imposing something from the outside, that would'nt change anything - change comes from within! Yes, change does come from within. *** Psychs encourage people to develop an external locus of control by continually asking them, "And how did that make you feel?" They also encourage the propagating of legislation and policies that entitle people (mostly women and black/brown people) not to feel bullied, harassed, threatened, and if they do then it is someone else's fault, regardless of that someone else's intent. That is why so many workplace policy manuals have statements to the effect that workers/students have the right not to feel fearful, anxious, bullied etc. Its not really about banning those emotional states, its about cultivating in people an external locus of control, a belief that one's internal condition is a result of external effects. People with an external locus of control are mostly unhappy envious people, and blame others/circumstances/society etc for their own inadequacies. They dislike the world around them, particularly society. Because they have an external locus of control they are easily externally manipulated -- mentally, emotionally and physically. People with external locus of control make perfect useful idiots. And from a psych's point of view they are good for business too.

I pretty much share your distrust of 'victim culture' and identity politics (which largely came out of post-modernism, Foucault et al). But don't forget there are hundreds of schools of psychology all with competing ideas of what constitutes a healthy mind.One of my favourite lines in the Simpsons is when the psychiatrist tells Bart to put down one of his books because ' that one has'nt been discredited yet'! Many approaches to psychology do try and help people stop seeing themselves as victims of circumstance, especially those of the existentialist persuasion.

One thing I would ask,however, is why 'God fearing'? I can understand it if one believes in a jealous OT Jehovah who dispenses lightning justice from His divine fingertips. If however one understands God as to be of infinite wisdom and love I would think fear is the last emotion one would have!

Speaking of fear, it doesn't take much these days to frighten today's generation of snowflakes who need safe rooms to escape from any number of "microaggressions" with which they are confronted, including the American flag.

http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2016/04/06/dominican-friar-confused-for-kkk-member-at-indiana-university-n2143938

Alan, you obviously do not fit a *Nazi* pyramid (not tower). The simple pyramid concept was meant to describe a system with a leader on top, and supporters below giving momentum and the power to act on Hitler's ideas. How could Hitler have invaded any country on his own? The entire Nazi group was and is responsible for their actions, and that of course includes Hitler.

Jesus and God was inserted into the post to probe your thoughts on how divine entities would have handled a world war. Turning the other cheek? Sodom and Gomorrah revisited?

Winston got off his butt in London to encourage, and who knows if he was standing, sitting, walking or laying down while German civilians were bombed.

While Churchill and Hitler were not "in the same box", that is your words, Churchill's words reveal hate, even if that means his foaming at the mouth was temporarily. You defining something as an offence does not make it an offence, especially when you are offended by your own lack of understanding. Offended? Deal with it, that is a part of life.

Regarding fear being the opposite of love, if a person is involved with a fear based fundamentalist religion, then that person will find it difficult to be guided by love, because his or her heart chakra area will be clogged by fear based concepts.

If a fundamentalist has no problems dropping bombs on people of another religion, then I'd say that that person is guided by fear rather than love.

Hate and fear tend to work together, so I'd say that they are both opposed to love.

There is no need to despise people that speak of fear. When people do so, more than anything, they reveal their own hang ups.

I feel inclinded to say that I've stopped reading Alan and 1796s long posts, because they have both shown too much disrespect towards others for me to continue to do so. Other people have probably made the same decision.

recoverer wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 11:52am:

Regarding fear being the opposite of love, if a person is involved with a fear based fundamentalist religion, then that person will find it difficult to be guided by love, because his or her heart chakra area will be clogged by fear based concepts. If a fundamentalist has no problems dropping bombs on people of another religion, then I'd say that that person is guided by fear rather than love. Hate and fear tend to work together, so I'd say that they are both opposed to love. There is no need to despise people that speak of fear. When people do so, more than anything, they reveal their own hang ups. I feel inclinded to say that I've stopped reading Alan and 1796s long posts, because they have both shown too much disrespect towards others for me to continue to do so. Other people have probably made the same decision.

My posts are not long! If I offended your sensitive soul I am sorry, but rather point out where I have been illogical or false?

Another reality to consider until the moment I returned to this forum a week or two ago, it was as good as dead in the ground!

wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 10:01am:

Alan, you obviously do not fit a *Nazi* pyramid (not tower). The simple pyramid concept was meant to describe a system with a leader on top, and supporters below giving momentum and the power to act on Hitler's ideas. How could Hitler have invaded any country on his own? The entire Nazi group was and is responsible for their actions, and that of course includes Hitler. Jesus and God was inserted into the post to probe your thoughts on how divine entities would have handled a world war. Turning the other cheek? Sodom and Gomorrah revisited? Winston got off his butt in London to encourage, and who knows if he was standing, sitting, walking or laying down while German civilians were bombed. While Churchill and Hitler were not "in the same box", that is your words, Churchill's words reveal hate, even if that means his foaming at the mouth was temporarily. You defining something as an offence does not make it an offence, especially when you are offended by your own lack of understanding. Offended? Deal with it, that is a part of life.

Without Hitler, the war would never have happened making your reference to his support structure below him, a moot point!

Give references to Churchill foaming in his mouth with hate, don't just quote stuff from your imagination?

Churchill one said "If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons."

"Hitler is a monster of wickedness, insatiable in his lust for blood and plunder. Not content with having all Europe under his heel, or else terrorized into various forms of abject submission, he must now carry his work of butchery and desolation among the vast multitudes of Russia and of Asia. The terrible military machine, which we and the rest of the civilised world so foolishly, so supinely, so insensately allowed the Nazi gangsters to build up year by year from almost nothing cannot stand idle lest it rust or fall to pieces".

"So now this bloodthirsty guttersnipe must launch his mechanized armies upon new fields of slaughter, pillage and devastation."

Alan:

First of all, perhaps you should know Bruce a little better before you say disparaging things about him.

Secondly, the Disk viewpoint doesn't become a non-reality simply because you haven't discovered it.

Thirdly, God is not an unforgiving being in the way you state. Consider Jesus' prodigal son story.

Fourth, there are teachers out there I don't agree with, but I don't go to their forums and speak against them, just as I wouldn't walk into a church and speak against its teachings. It would be disrespectful to do such a thing. I don't mean to say that a person has to agree with everything Bruce says, but a person can go too far.

Fifth, you need to learn to have some empathy for people you say deserve to go to hell. Again, consider Jesus' prodigal son story.

Sixth, you speak of Satan, if you closely considered the Bible and its history, you would see that it doesn't clearly establish that Satan exists in the way you speak of Satan. In the Bible the world "Satan" basically means  adversary, and this word is used in varying contradictory ways. Consider what Matthew 16:21-23 says below. Did Jesus literally mean the Satan you speak of? Remember, Jesus thought well of Peter.

“From then on Jesus began to tell his disciples plainly that it was necessary for him to go to Jerusalem, and that he would suffer many terrible things at the hands of the elders, the leading priests, and the teachers of religious law. He would be killed, but on the third day he would be raised from the dead.
     But Peter took him aside and began to reprimand him for saying such things. “Heaven forbid, Lord,” he said. “This will never happen to you!”
     Jesus turned to Peter and said, “Get away from me, Satan! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, not from God's.”

I don't mean to say that unfriendly beings don't exist, but perhaps not to an extent where we have to believe that a being named Satan is involved if somebody speaks of something such as having a disk experience.




Alan McDougall wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 12:09pm:

recoverer wrote on Apr 7th, 2016 at 11:52am: Regarding fear being the opposite of love, if a person is involved with a fear based fundamentalist religion, then that person will find it difficult to be guided by love, because his or her heart chakra area will be clogged by fear based concepts. If a fundamentalist has no problems dropping bombs on people of another religion, then I'd say that that person is guided by fear rather than love. Hate and fear tend to work together, so I'd say that they are both opposed to love. There is no need to despise people that speak of fear. When people do so, more than anything, they reveal their own hang ups. I feel inclinded to say that I've stopped reading Alan and 1796s long posts, because they have both shown too much disrespect towards others for me to continue to do so. Other people have probably made the same decision. My posts are not long! If I offended your sensitive soul I am sorry, but rather point out where I have been illogical or false? Another reality to consider until the moment I returned to this forum a week or two ago, it was as good as dead in the ground!

recoverer wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 12:50pm:

Alan: First of all, perhaps you should know Bruce a little better before you say disparaging things about him. Secondly, the Disk viewpoint doesn't become a non-reality simply because you haven't discovered it. Thirdly, God is not an unforgiving being in the way you state. Consider Jesus' prodigal son story. Fourth, there are teachers out there I don't agree with, but I don't go to their forums and speak against them, just as I wouldn't walk into a church and speak against its teachings. It would be disrespectful to do such a thing. I don't mean to say that a person has to agree with everything Bruce says, but a person can go too far. Fifth, you need to learn to have some empathy for people you say deserve to go to hell. Again, consider Jesus' prodigal son story. Sixth, you speak of Satan, if you closely considered the Bible and its history, you would see that it doesn't clearly establish that Satan exists in the way you speak of Satan. In the Bible the world "Satan" basically means  adversary, and this word is used in varying contradictory ways. Consider what Matthew 16:21-23 says below. Did Jesus literally mean the Satan you speak of? Remember, Jesus thought well of Peter. “From then on Jesus began to tell his disciples plainly that it was necessary for him to go to Jerusalem, and that he would suffer many terrible things at the hands of the elders, the leading priests, and the teachers of religious law. He would be killed, but on the third day he would be raised from the dead.      But Peter took him aside and began to reprimand him for saying such things. “Heaven forbid, Lord,” he said. “This will never happen to you!”      Jesus turned to Peter and said, “Get away from me, Satan! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, not from God's.” I don't mean to say that unfriendly beings don't exist, but perhaps not to an extent where we have to believe that a being named Satan is involved if somebody speaks of something such as having a disk experience. Alan McDougall wrote on Apr 7th, 2016 at 12:09pm: recoverer wrote on Apr 7th, 2016 at 11:52am: Regarding fear being the opposite of love, if a person is involved with a fear based fundamentalist religion, then that person will find it difficult to be guided by love, because his or her heart chakra area will be clogged by fear based concepts. If a fundamentalist has no problems dropping bombs on people of another religion, then I'd say that that person is guided by fear rather than love. Hate and fear tend to work together, so I'd say that they are both opposed to love. There is no need to despise people that speak of fear. When people do so, more than anything, they reveal their own hang ups. I feel inclinded to say that I've stopped reading Alan and 1796s long posts, because they have both shown too much disrespect towards others for me to continue to do so. Other people have probably made the same decision. My posts are not long! If I offended your sensitive soul I am sorry, but rather point out where I have been illogical or false? Another reality to consider until the moment I returned to this forum a week or two ago, it was as good as dead in the ground!

How can you tell us what an infinite being will do or not do?

Almighty God, is Sovereign, meaning he will and can do exactly what he wants to do, without asking my or your permission to act.?

Satan is a real as God if you do not believe in Satan you cannot believe in God because Satan, Lucifer or the Devil by whatever name you call it, is the source of Evil while God is the source of good.

God created Satan, in order for us to exercise our free will, to choose what is right and good or to choose what is wrong and evil.

The fact that you do not believe in Satan does not mean he does not exist, that is just your opinion.

Satans greatest weapon is to make us believe he does not exist and in this he has done a very good job in your life.

Alan, my responses can be found within brackets below.

How can you tell us what an infinite being will do or not do? [In my last post I didn't say such a thing.]

Almighty God, is Sovereign, meaning he will and can do exactly what he wants to do, without asking my or your permission to act.? [I agree]

Satan is a real as God if you do not believe in Satan you cannot believe in God because Satan, Lucifer or the Devil by whatever name you call it, is the source of Evil while God is the source of good. [Certainly it is possible to believe in God without believing in Satan.]

God created Satan, in order for us to exercise our free will, to choose what is right and good or to choose what is wrong and evil. [If God created Satan, then despite what you said in your prior paragraph, God is the source of evil.  If God created Satan because he wanted an evil being to exist, can you blame Satan for being evil? Or perhaps there is a better explanation of what takes place than the one you provide.]

The fact that you do not believe in Satan does not mean he does not exist, that is just your opinion. [What I said is that the Bible and its history doesn't support the concept of Satan in the way you speak of him. What is your basis for believing that Satan exists in the way you describe?]

Satans greatest weapon is to make us believe he does not exist and in this he has done a very good job in your life. [You stated a plattitude that has no substantial basis. Where did it come from? Probably from a preacher who wanted to control his flock with fear. Many people have since repeated this plattitude without knowing if there is a substantial basis for its origin. I believe that unfriendly beings exist. I don't believe that Satan exists in the way you speak of him, because it seems as if your belief is groundless. Your belief seems to be similar to what many Christians believe. They believe that Satan exists without having a clear idea of what he is. They believe that the Bible provides a consistent and clear of explanation of who Satan is, even though it doesn't. The concept of Lucifer comes from a translational error. A fallen king of Babylon, a physical person, is spoken of in Isaiah 14:12, not a fallen angel. In whatever manner unfriendly beings exist, the Bible doesn't provide a detailed, consistent and clear explanation. That said, what is the basis for your concept of Satan?]

*****

I would like to add, if a person believes that one of Satan's greatest tricks is getting people to believe that he doesn't exist, then such a person will have a very difficult time seriously questioning such a belief, because it includes the fear-based ingredient that a person can't question it, without getting fooled by Satan.

A mind that isn't free to question can't find out what is true.

As far as I can make out the famous 'Satan's greatest trick' quote is from The 'Generous Gambler' (1864) by Charles Pierre Baudelaire- http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0607031h.html. Ironically some of Baudlaire's work has been used as an inspiration for satanists!

But of course the main problem for that quote is that some of the world's greatest evil has been perpetrated precisely when the work of the Devil was seen everywhere such as the great witchchcraft  purges 16th/17th century Europe.Even now in some African charismatic faiths communities there are recorded cases of 'possessed' children being horribly abused/murdered.

Alan, Do not anger yourself with the replies on this forum. Justin and Recoverer are just Groupies of Moens "Imagination System"... Both they cannot provide any verification's of Moens evidence of afterlife reality via his imagination system.
If so, prove it!..GMan 

Hey Gman, how is the family? Do not let yourself be angered by Moen's method, and instead opt to overcome laziness by getting your own verifications. First of all, get to know your intent - are you a builder, or do you enjoy the process of tearing down. If you are a builder, there are plenty of methods available, but you will need to do some research, which takes time, effort and focus.  If you enjoy wrecking, proof does not matter.

Alan, I agree with Gman. It's like me trying to reason with an old friend who insists I should become a Jehovah Witness.  It's pointless.  Why continue on a trip down a dead-end road?

Just let the blues brothers scratch each other's backs.  That way there won't be any skin off yours.

R

I'll use my imagination to imagine that there are no trolls on this forum, I'll see it not there.



Gman wrote on Apr 8^th, 2016 at 2:00am:

Alan, Do not anger yourself with the replies on this forum. Justin and Recoverer are just Groupies of Moens "Imagination System"... Both they cannot provide any verification's of Moens evidence of afterlife reality via his imagination system. If so, prove it!..GMan

Roger, read my books and see if I am indulging in imagination. I'll send you free PDF files if you like. This offer doesn't extend to everybody.



rondele wrote on Apr 8^th, 2016 at 10:37am:

Alan, I agree with Gman. It's like me trying to reason with an old friend who insists I should become a Jehovah Witness.  It's pointless.  Why continue on a trip down a dead-end road? Just let the blues brothers scratch each other's backs.  That way there won't be any skin off yours. R

Alan, the war happened. Hitler was not the sole responsible Nazi. The war ended and the encyclopaedia of WWII suffering also contains pages with that of German civilians. Churchill quotes foaming (the English way) with hatred are a few posts back in this thread.

When you meet your maker, if interested and as a side note to your hopefully wonderful conversations, ask if you can be shown and get to know the truth about WWII, starting with an overview and progress into smaller and smaller details. If you dare, make a request to experience every German civilian life from their points of view when they were affected by the efforts of those who opposed the Axis powers to win the war. This is but one detail in the big picture, but an important detail to explore if the notion is that Allied actions were absolutely good/the krauts had it coming. Who else better to explore the truth with than with your maker.

In my view, there is really nothing to fear. If you feel faced with a threat, you could run from it or make your stand. However, all that is essential for me is remembering who I am. Just come back to yourself, whoever that is, the core you. Nothing in this world or the next can snatch you from who you really are. You are that valuable. So there is nothing to fear.

  So many tempests in teacups, it's hard to keep track of them all.



Quote:

"Who the heck is Yahshua, we are English speakers on this forum, join a Hebrew forum if you insist on using Hebrew names not here? Jesus Christ is his English name, what is wrong with that because then everyone will know exactly who you are refering to"

   Since you asked Alan--i use his original name or the one that is much closer to his original name for a few reasons.  One reason, well, i'll give you an example.  If you were given the name Alan at birth, and you go to a foreign country, would you prefer to be called Alan or say their equivalent of your name?  Personally, i would prefer to be called Justin wherever i go, as that's the name i was born with and am use to.  It's really not that important though, from this angle.

    Two, my "disk", Spirit, or whatever you prefer to call it, had a lifetime (actually, maybe a couple) during Yeshua's time and knew and called him by that name. (insert diatribe here about how past lives are rubbish, etc).

   I prefer to call my friend, by his given name, even though now i'm in a different time and culture.  That's how those selves were introduced to him and knew him. 

    But above all and the reason why i most prefer to call Jesus by his given original name, is that the name Jesus indirectly represents a lot that is negative about the development of Christianity.  It was originally a Jewish/Hebrew movement that got violently co-opted by the Romans.  The Romans referred to him by the Greek translation of his name, Iesous, which later became our english "Jesus". 

  Since i really dislike the Roman "intervention" in this movement, and how much they twisted, distorted, and tried to turn it into something it's not (and they were pretty successful all in all through what became the Catholic Empire), calling Jesus by his given, original name and not his Greco-Roman influenced name is my own little personal rebellion to this development and influence on the legacy of my Teacher's life, example, and teachings.  And an influence that sadly continues to this day.   

  Besides, i have a penchant for accuracy in general. It has nothing to do with being or appearing different despite some folks projections.  That such folks claim to know the heart (motivations and intentions) of others, when they tend to poo poo psychism and any kind of practice of these capabilities seems a bit ironic and definitely hypocritical.  Also, even if one believes in the above, and thinks it's ok or well to practice such things, most whom do, will tell you that knowing the heart of others in only an accurate way always, is one of the hardest things to do.  You have become like, or at least close to being like, Yeshua to do so.  Few humans there are that are even close in this life. 

   Anyways, regarding names, i also recognize that at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what you label him or not.  I don't think he cares and i don't think it's all that important if others call him Jesus or Yeshua, which is why i never have and never will ask others to call him by the latter name though i do.

   Why do you care what i call him?  Is it somehow directly affecting your life in some way? 

   Btw, i usually put (Jesus) right next to Yeshua at some point in my posts to make plain who and what i'm talking about.  A reference point for those who may not know.

   According to the logic of only ever using words that all or most others know, then this would preclude, apparently, ever using more advanced vocabulary. 

   Well, then my speech and writing would become like Donald Trump's, and i just don't want to go there...  ;)  :D ;D   Perhaps Rondele is content with sounding like a loud Trump, but i'm not.   

  Personally, i think exposing people to different, unfamiliar or new concepts, ideas, words, etc helps to stretch their minds and keep them flexible and active, which is important for learning and maintaining perceptive capabilities. 


   

recoverer wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 11:52am:

... I feel inclinded to say that I've stopped reading Alan and 1796s long posts, because they have both shown too much disrespect towards others for me to continue to do so. Other people have probably made the same decision.

Good.  Now I can write what I like without offending you.   

***

On the subject of “fear based” religions, here’s one for a laugh. The new-age religion whose followers believe in evil reptilian aliens masquerading as political leaders and detrimentally telepathically influencing us to keep our souls imprisoned on a slave planet – that is fear based religion. Notice that its “prophets” try to recruit fragile and simple minded people. Any followers will do to feed their ego. And they believe (hope) that western society will be blown away by a galactic energy wave, or the sea will rise and drown the cities, and socio-economic collapse or any one of all sorts of imagined calamities will come and cause the bad people (capitalists, conservatives, wealthy Jews, and those who believe in individual freewill and accountability) to be removed from the planet so the good people (those who hate freewill in others and individual accountability in themselves, and believe in social conformity which they misleadingly call equality) can inherit the earth. Then with the bad people gone and society levelled and the population reduced, the spiritual elite (deluded “spiritual” socialists) will lead the new humanity into a new age of harmony (compliance). It is a wanker’s religion. A religion of envy and destruction, and of fanciful power and status.

1796 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 12:29am:

recoverer wrote on Apr 7th, 2016 at 11:52am: ... I feel inclinded to say that I've stopped reading Alan and 1796s long posts, because they have both shown too much disrespect towards others for me to continue to do so. Other people have probably made the same decision. Good.  Now I can write what I like without offending you.    *** On the subject of “fear based” religions, here’s one for a laugh. The new-age religion whose followers believe in evil reptilian aliens masquerading as political leaders and detrimentally telepathically influencing us to keep our souls imprisoned on a slave planet – that is fear based religion. Notice that its “prophets” try to recruit fragile and simple minded people. Any followers will do to feed their ego. And they believe (hope) that western society will be blown away by a galactic energy wave, or the sea will rise and drown the cities, and socio-economic collapse or any one of all sorts of imagined calamities will come and cause the bad people (capitalists, conservatives, wealthy Jews, and those who believe in individual freewill and accountability) to be removed from the planet so the good people (those who hate freewill in others and individual accountability in themselves, and believe in social conformity which they misleadingly call equality) can inherit the earth. Then with the bad people gone and society levelled and the population reduced, the spiritual elite (deluded “spiritual” socialists) will lead the new humanity into a new age of harmony (compliance). It is a wanker’s religion. A religion of envy and destruction, and of fanciful power and status.

Great post-1796 it reflects the foolish stupidity infecting society and is the essence of real truth.

Thank you

Alan

1796, you nailed it, but it's bound to upset the resident Marxist wannabe who will no doubt smother the board with even more left wing nonsense.  Maybe he should busy himself instead with some sort of mission, like starting a movement demanding voting rights for reptilians.

https://youtu.be/gHaJegv6Sjs

R

  There are three main types of people when it comes to conflict. There are some who shy away from all or most conflict--usually these are sensitive souls and/or personalities that are polarized to the Yin/feminine side of consciousness. Some are spiritually mature and many aren't that spiritually mature.

  There are those that don't like conflict, but understand that sometimes conflict is helpful and necessary, and will engage in it in selective ways.  These are usually more balanced within as to the Yin-Yang, and tend to be unusually mature Souls in the human experience. 

   Then there are those that like and thrive on conflict, and seem to need conflict and drama and if they can't find it, they try to create it.  These lack harmony and attunement to PUL within, and/or often are over polarized to the Yang/masculine within. 

   It's easy enough to see which people fall into which general categories.  Generally speaking, it's probably best to not engage the latter most of the time.  It's like not giving a bratty, aggressive child a lollipop or attention when he screams he wants another one now. 

Good post Justin.

Going by some of their posts, Rondelle and 1796 don't know what it means to treat other people in a respectful and loving way. Just like school yard bullies they have their rationalizations and justifications for what they do, many people can see beyond such intellectualization. The day will come when Rondelle and 1796 will grow up spiritually and understand that it is not okay to do as they do. I believe it is quite ludicrous for 1796 to write posts on subjects such as forgiveness as he does, and then he writes the disrespectful things he writes, and Rondelle chears him on.

Regarding the imagination method, I used it just a few times. But as a school yard bully might do, some people tried to define me by it. Not that I'm opposed to the imagination method. It is a primer, a way of setting intent. Moving around in the spirit world is partly a matter of intent.



wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 11:09am:

There are three main types of people when it comes to conflict. There are some who shy away from all or most conflict--usually these are sensitive souls and/or personalities that are polarized to the Yin/feminine side of consciousness. Some are spiritually mature and many aren't that spiritually mature.   There are those that don't like conflict, but understand that sometimes conflict is helpful and necessary, and will engage in it in selective ways.  These are usually more balanced within as to the Yin-Yang, and tend to be unusually mature Souls in the human experience.     Then there are those that like and thrive on conflict, and seem to need conflict and drama and if they can't find it, they try to create it.  These lack harmony and attunement to PUL within, and/or often are over polarized to the Yang/masculine within.     It's easy enough to see which people fall into which general categories.  Generally speaking, it's probably best to not engage the latter most of the time.  It's like not giving a bratty, aggressive child a lollipop or attention when he screams he wants another one now.

I suppose I may fall into the category of a person with "new age" beliefs, though they incorporate aspects of the judeo-christian ethos, buddhism, taoism, and other sources.  I don't believe in aliens controlling politicians ; I think most politicians are of a low enough level of spirituality that they create their own karma. 

Most people who believe in a love based spirituality are not waiting for an apocalyptic wave of destruction to remove one or more groups of people.  That is absurd.

It is funny, that many on the board can't stick to discussing or arguing about the topics, and resort to put downs, stereotyping and in that way being dismissive of others.  That is a display of ego, and it looks ugly. 

M

I'm not opposed to people being critical of what others say. Certainly it is okay to have differing opinions. But it is one thing to have a different opinion, and quite another thing when a person gets a cheap thrill out of making fun of others.

If I ran a forum I wouldn't ban people for having differing opinions, but I would ban them if they found it necessary to try to find a momentary feeling  of happiness by being cruel and making fun of others.  I suppose bullies feel happy as they laugh while they pick on somebody. Perhaps even demons, if they exist, feel happy when they get a cheap thrill out of tormenting someone.




DocM wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 3:05pm:

I suppose I may fall into the category of a person with "new age" beliefs, though they incorporate aspects of the judeo-christian ethos, buddhism, taoism, and other sources.  I don't believe in aliens controlling politicians ; I think most politicians are of a low enough level of spirituality that they create their own karma.  Most people who believe in a love based spirituality are not waiting for an apocalyptic wave of destruction to remove one or more groups of people.  That is absurd. It is funny, that many on the board can't stick to discussing or arguing about the topics, and resort to put downs, stereotyping and in that way being dismissive of others.  That is a display of ego, and it looks ugly.  M

Well, in the case of Mr. Moen, he offered over a year ago to participate in a partnered exploration with members of the forum. No one responded online. So, people can talk and bluster all they want. But, it is only first hand experience with this kind of exploration which can convince you that there is truth in it which is specific to you and valuable in a way which no one can else can successfully question.

Speaking for myself I came to this conversation board originally because I had read Bruce's books and liked his non-doctrinaire, 'find-out by personal experience'-based approach. I would have thought that a pre-requisite for participating in this board would be at least some kind of understanding or interest that afterlife exploration might be (i) possible (ii) beneficial to oneself and of service to others, at least in theory. But it seems that some on this board are not even in the same book store let alone on the same page! It is a bit like someone who hates wildlife prowling around a board devoted to bird watching  just to annoy the twitchers- what's the point? Don't misunderstand me I'm not advocating Cult-like 'group-think' (that serves nobody and is very much against the spirit of Bruce's books) and sharing differences of opinion can be illuminating but this seems to go way beyond that.Its not even important if someone's left or right on the political spectrum- a genuine interest in afterlife exploration is all that's required. Its a shame it could be really good here.

One way you can see how attached someone is to their ego is how often they have to be right about something.  Of course in these forums, people are going to put forth a point of view, and there will be differences.  Some see their point as being a substitute for their ego, which, by its very nature is perishable.  So if they lose the argument, then it is a substitute for a loss in other ways.  It is humbling, if we all could say that we can put forth our views but not be attached to being the winner of the discussion.  Ultimately, the more we judge others, the more we separate the unity of what we are into "us vs. them" the more we distance ourselves into isolated egos.  Those who prattle on about demonic forces, push everything into an us vs. them mentality, and as a man thinketh, so goes his reality.  So Robert Bruce, writes of astral projection and being able to encounter and combat negative forces, and he finds them everywhere.  And Bruce Moen and others believe in love and don't divide the world into "us vs. them" and in general don't encounter negative entities.  Why is that, I wonder?

wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 5:26pm:

Well, in the case of Mr. Moen, he offered over a year ago to participate in a partnered exploration with members of the forum. No one responded online. So, people can talk and bluster all they want. But, it is only first hand experience with this kind of exploration which can convince you that there is truth in it which is specific to you and valuable in a way which no one can else can successfully question.

   I agree seagull. Partnered exploration is probably the best way to be sure of what's real and what is not. When I saw his offer last year, I really wanted to participate. Unfortunately, my skills are highly limited in focus level exploration. So far, my meditations never offer encounters with other beings and limited control of where I go. I hope to improve soon and reach the ability of controlled exploration.

Ralph

DocM wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:26pm:

One way you can see how attached someone is to their ego is how often they have to be right about something.  Of course in these forums, people are going to put forth a point of view, and there will be differences.  Some see their point as being a substitute for their ego, which, by its very nature is perishable.  So if they lose the argument, then it is a substitute for a loss in other ways.  It is humbling, if we all could say that we can put forth our views but not be attached to being the winner of the discussion.  Ultimately, the more we judge others, the more we separate the unity of what we are into "us vs. them" the more we distance ourselves into isolated egos.  Those who prattle on about demonic forces, push everything into an us vs. them mentality, and as a man thinketh, so goes his reality.  So Robert Bruce, writes of astral projection and being able to encounter and combat negative forces, and he finds them everywhere.  And Bruce Moen and others believe in love and don't divide the world into "us vs. them" and in general don't encounter negative entities.  Why is that, I wonder?

   Since I've accepted that demons don't really exist (probably just non physical nasty people) and to embrace love in my experiences, I have become fearless in both my physical and non physical encounters.

   Unattachment to people, places, and things also helps in removing fears. What I think is the best way to be fearless though is to experience life beyond the physical; thereby knowing that you will survive physical death in a much better life.

Ralph

Why are you so upset by my post?

If it does not apply to you, then ignore it.   

And if it does apply to you; if you believe in telepathic reptilian aliens trying to get into people’s minds, and who are able to appear as human beings, often as our political leaders; if you believe western society must be destroyed, and if you are awaiting its happening; if you believe you are a foreteller (a prophet) of that destruction, and if you believe you are a leader of others through societal collapse and transition into a new age; then again, why are you upset by my post?

This forum and others are peppered with posts supporting that new religion of societal destruction and transition. On this forum there are several threads dedicated wholly to it. So what is wrong with me summarising it? and why do you call me cruel and a bully?

DocM wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 8:26pm:

So Robert Bruce, writes of astral projection and being able to encounter and combat negative forces, and he finds them everywhere.  And Bruce Moen and others believe in love and don't divide the world into "us vs. them" and in general don't encounter negative entities.  Why is that, I wonder?

Ok Doc, one Bruce sees cactuses everywhere and becomes familiar with their prickly nature. The other Bruce by intent sees no cactuses and would rather have a whiff of the flowers. Two Bruces with different attractions/focuses.

When projecting (not in Kansas anymore) they could both be merely exploring subjective projections/their own thought forms. One of them could be subjective, the other objective, and so on.

wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 11:40pm:

DocM wrote on Apr 9th, 2016 at 8:26pm:   So Robert Bruce, writes of astral projection and being able to encounter and combat negative forces, and he finds them everywhere.  And Bruce Moen and others believe in love and don't divide the world into "us vs. them" and in general don't encounter negative entities.  Why is that, I wonder? Ok Doc, one Bruce sees cactuses everywhere and becomes familiar with their prickly nature. The other Bruce by intent sees no cactuses and would rather have a whiff of the flowers. Two Bruces with different attractions/focuses. When projecting (not in Kansas anymore) they could both be merely exploring subjective projections/their own thought forms. One of them could be subjective, the other objective, and so on.

The fact is that there are prickly cactuses everywhere . Love could not separate a person from the very real prickly cactus that Hitler presented.

Evil is a reality, just like goodness is a reality.

Quote:

Alan The fact is that there are prickly cactuses everywhere . Love could not separate a person from the very real prickly cactus that Hitler presented. Evil is a reality, just like goodness is a reality.

I know Alan, it was an example with a simple reference point to start from.

An average good person enclosed on all sides by a group of truly evil bastards, and the average person may seem like a saint. The average person enclosed on all sides by a group of saints, and the average person may even seem less than average.

Agreed, evil is a reality though someone might not like to deal with it, and so with goodness for an evil person who closes off to it.

wrote on Apr 10^th, 2016 at 7:31am:

Quote: Alan The fact is that there are prickly cactuses everywhere . Love could not separate a person from the very real prickly cactus that Hitler presented. Evil is a reality, just like goodness is a reality. I know Alan, it was an example with a simple reference point to start from. An average good person enclosed on all sides by a group of truly evil bastards, and the average person may seem like a saint. The average person enclosed on all sides by a group of saints, and the average person may even seem less than average. Agreed, evil is a reality though someone might not like to deal with it, and so with goodness for an evil person who closes off to it.

Average people are not saints, average people do not go around hurting other people unless it is to to prevent evil people hurting those they love.

Alan, a very average guy I know of took his dog for a walk to buy a salad for his wife. He ended up drinking with his buds and to protect his drinking habit, which he loves, he sent the dog back home in a taxi cab.

Preventing evil people to do harm by protecting loved ones is a reasonable if not an automatic response. When the protector strikes the evil doer down, and then proceeds to kill the family of the stricken, leave his innocent grandma at least?

wrote on Apr 10^th, 2016 at 9:43am:

Alan, a very average guy I know of took his dog for a walk to buy a salad for his wife. He ended up drinking with his buds and to protect his drinking habit, which he loves, he sent the dog back home in a taxi cab. Preventing evil people to do harm by protecting loved ones is a reasonable if not an automatic response. When the protector strikes the evil doer down, and then proceeds to kill the family of the stricken, leave his innocent grandma at least?

That is a really silly analogy, he does not love his drinking habit he is addicted to it and the demands of his body.

if an average man will strike down the one that threatens the life of his family, not kill all the other innocent members of the evildoers family that had nothing to do with the event.

it seems to me you are blind to logic and are just a dog that wants to ensure he gets the last bark?

Maybe I should use the term "Good Person" rather than "Average Person" because you seem to think an "Average Person" is also full of hate and murder, but just to a lesser degree than an evil murderous despot?

   Alan, i have no dog in this fight so to speak..

  As regards the average person, there has been at least a few psychological studies to date, that have shown that the average person can be manipulated fairly easily into doing what most of us, most of the time, would label as wrong, evil, negative, harmful, and/or unethical things to others. 

    Usually it involves some apparent authority figure that takes control. The average person is more a follower than being independent or self realized, and seems especially susceptible to looking to authority as what to do, especially when a person perceives that authority as being especially "authoritative".   

   Only a relatively small percentage of people in these studies will buck the authority and not do the perceived as harmful, hurtful, etc things to others.

    This indicates to me that humanity as a whole, is still rather stuck, and that the average person has a lot to learn about Love, about themselves, about others, about reality.

   And what Ambivalent seems to be talking about, is relativity more than anything.  Perception changes as you change the conditions and comparisons/contrast. Or to loosely use his comparison, compared to a true psychopathic type person, i may seem a saint, but compared to Yeshua, i have a lot to work on as far as attuning to PUL.  The perception is somewhat relative.   

    

   

  1796, it is fine to summarize if one does so accurately and objectively, but what you are doing is neither. It is more akin to US politics and political smear campaigning.

  For example, speaking about negative ET's, you write of others beliefs, "who are able to appear as human beings, often as our political leaders;"

   Neither Recoverer or i have ever said that these ET's appear as political leaders. 

    That negative beings may sometimes try to influence the movers and shakers of this world, is another matter, and one that even Tom Campbell has indicated happens. 

   Also, it seems that time and time again that you gloss over that what you make fun of so consistently, various more credible sources indicate there is some truth to these things. 

   You have referenced to Bob Monroe in the past and seem to respect him.  Bob is on record as saying that ET's meddle or influence our human affairs, and his Expanded, Disk self level (INSPEC etc) told him that virtually all of his/their lives involved some ET influence. 

  You also ignore that one of Bob's longest time and most successful explorers Rosalind McKnight and their guidance point blank said that a negative ET group is involved with this world, and eventually would be involved in starting an outright war of aggression towards us.  They also said that positive and helpful ET's were involved with our world and were protecting us until we were grown enough to deal with them in these overt ways.

   If you know anything about Bob and his relationship with Rosie and her guidance, you would know that Bob had a very, very high respect for them.  Bob referred to Rosie's main guide as "Ah So", partly because this source was so enlightening and wise. Bob indicated to Rosie on more than one occasion, that Rosie's guidance would frequently telepathically read his mind and answer questions before he asked. 

    He also reported that if they parked too close to Rosie's sessions, the car batteries would get drained somehow.

   I never met Bob in physical, but i met in person and was friends with Rosie and she was obviously an old Soul with more expanded perception than the average--she just struck me as wise and loving. 

  These are only two sources.  Then there is Edgar Cayce's work which hints that one, ET's exist and two that negative forces are very much involved in this world.

   As far as Earth changes go, again, it's similar. MANY more credible sources, including the above three, speak of these as probable, so doesn't the NT and Yeshua, and so don't various sources from NDE's to Native American tribes.  That i recognize this as a necessity and as probable, does not mean that i hate people--it means that i know that this world will not change for the better to that golden spiritual age that many have seen happening after the collapse/breakdown, without major outer catalysts.

  See the conservation between He/She and Bob Monroe as it touches on this.  He/She talks about a plan to unify humanity that will not involve any kind of ism, but "world wide recognized necessity".   Bob says recognized necessity is severe stuff and that the "world would have to be in pretty rough shape".  He/She replies, "that's why the waiting, the time will come."

  Do you claim to be wiser and more aware than He/She oh arrogant one?

You speak of things you don't know, and think self is so much the expert that self knows everything.  You have much to learn about much. Classic OBE's can only take one so far. 

   When you attune to PUL a lot more and more consistently, more will open up to you, but until then, you do sound and act like a school yard, bellicose bully sometimes. 

  You also do not seem to be a truth seeker, but seek to confirm only what you believe, preconceive, or want to believe. You dislike the idea of collapse, not for any great love of others, but because of your selfish, materialistic side is too attached to the things of the world.

   I could care less what you say or don't say about me, but it does bother me some that you represent and talk about Yeshua.  For him, with friends like you, who needs enemies?

  Oh, btw, a question to a supposed Christian?  Why does the Bible in general, and also Yeshua and Yochanan (John the Baptist) specifically make frequent reference to serpents/vipers in a negative manner? 

  Ever read the Dead Sea Scrolls?  These make even more reference to serpents/vipers and sometimes in a way that talks about negative beings with a serpent/viper like appearance.  See Testament of Amram where he was psychically viewing the Archangel Michael battling a being with the visage of a "Viper" over who would influence his Soul and whether towards the Light or lack of same.

   Consider the Apostle John's words "He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years."  Here we have John outright saying that Satan/the devil aka the adversary and tempter is an ancient serpent, but only allegory i suppose.


   Curious that, curious that ancient figurines have been found of these Reptilian humanoid looking beings, and that other cultures and sources have talked of these visiting gods (what ancient people called ET's).

  Hmm, both Recoverer and i have had various experiences and guidance messages indicate to us that a negative ET group is involved with this world, and on occasion, we've seen them as Reptilian looking.  My spouse had a dream about this before we even considered, in an open minded way, the possibility of this.

  Hmm, maybe it's at least a possibility that there is a negative ET group which appears reptilian like in appearance? 

   But if the Almighty 1796 doesn't believe it's true, it can't possibly be true, but of course. 

  Occasionally bratty, aggressive children do need to be spanked. Yeshua spanked the Pharisee's, Sadducee, and other self stylized experts who were misleading people on occasion. 

   

1796:

I did not mean to indicate that you are a bully. In order for you to be a bully here there would have to be someone you could bully, and that isn't the case.

There have been occasions when you made fun of people, such as people who speak of unfriendly aliens. When people find it enjoyable to make fun of others, the same type of enjoyment a bully experiences takes place.

That said, Justin just inspired me to say something about unfriendly aliens. I'll write another post.


1796 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 10:36pm:

Why are you so upset by my post? If it does not apply to you, then ignore it.    And if it does apply to you; if you believe in telepathic reptilian aliens trying to get into people’s minds, and who are able to appear as human beings, often as our political leaders; if you believe western society must be destroyed, and if you are awaiting its happening; if you believe you are a foreteller (a prophet) of that destruction, and if you believe you are a leader of others through societal collapse and transition into a new age; then again, why are you upset by my post? This forum and others are peppered with posts supporting that new religion of societal destruction and transition. On this forum there are several threads dedicated wholly to it. So what is wrong with me summarising it? and why do you call me cruel and a bully?

Justin:

Good point about what Robert Monroe said about unfriendly influences. He speaks of them in "Ultimate Journey." He says that some of these influences were never human, and have been interacting with humanity for years. Perhaps he found out something that is factual, rather than simply imagining what he expected to imagine (this is a rebuttal to Doc's contention).

For myself, I found out about unfriendly  aliens not because I expected to or wanted to, but because friendly spirits I have found to be trustworthy decided to let me know about them. If it is possible to find out about other things that aren't imagination based, then perhaps it is possible to find out about unfrienly aliens without being misled.

Bruce Moen didn't write about unfriendly aliens but he wrote about friendly aliens and what seemed to be neutral aliens (the later, aliens he sharred PUL with). He also wrote of the gathering, a place where aliens keep track of expected Earth changes.

You brought up Rosalind McKnight. In one of his books Bruce wrote that he was touched by the Patrick event that took place during the Monroe Institute Explorer sessions. Below is a link that has the tape for that event (session # 17). If he considers that session valid, I wonder  if he considers the sessions where Robert Monroe was informed through Rosalind that unfriendly aliens interact with this World, valid.

https://www.monroeinstitute.org/explorer-series

The part about retrievals starts at around the 9 minute point.

Alan, man/dog/drinking is not an analogy but a true story, and in the man's own words he loves alcohol, but your description rings true. Using contrast deliberately so be mindful of your own logic and delicacy of discrimination. Good person is a better term when measuring goodness than average person, though an average person is not by default full of hate an murder.

  Good points Albert. 

Related to what i said earlier. The only time Yeshua refers to these serpents/vipers in any kind of positive sense, is when he sends out the 70 or 72 disciples into the gentile world, and he cautions them among others things to be as gentle as doves, but as wise* as serpents.

    But that is not the more accurate translation, the more accurate translation of that word is not wise, but more akin to the concept/idea of clever.  Yeshua was basically saying something like, keep your street smarts about you when in these foreign lands, don't let people trick or take advantage of you, but at the same time, do no harm (gentle as doves).

   Now, how did Yeshua go about making this association between serpents/vipers and cleverness if he was only speaking about earthly snakes or lizards?  What about them seems particularly clever?  Doves being gentle makes sense, but the other one doesn't.

   Perhaps this this hits home the point that he was possibly referring to perhaps a very intelligent ET race that tends to be more clever than humans?

   How is Satan/the Devil, the tempter and misleader of humanity from the beginning a "serpent" and/or dragon like?  Perhaps John knew, either from what Yeshua told him or psychically, that the Reptilian ET's have been involved in misleading humans from the get go.

   Maybe people had had physical and nonphysical encounters with these evil, psychopathic beings and saw that they looked akin to our earthly reptilians in some ways?   That is exactly what Amram in the Dead Sea Scrolls states. 

    When there is so much circumstantial evidence for something, and so many diverse and unrelated sources speaking of similar things, chances are, there is probably something to it. 

   We humans know next to nothing about ET's and ET life.  Bob Monroe was told that there were countless ET groups out there.  Is it logical or even probable that all of them are PUL based and friendly towards humans? 

p.s.
http://www.ancient-origins.net/unexplained-phenomena/unanswered-mystery-7000-year-old-ubaid-lizardmen-001116

  The Asian cultures speak of dragons more so than serpents.  For some reason, they venerated these more than some Western cultures which typically viewed them more as evil.  Sometime people like to venerate anything that is more seemingly powerful than themselves, or because they lack insight into the nature of that which they are venerating. 

wrote on Apr 10^th, 2016 at 1:40pm:

Good points Albert.  Related to what i said earlier. The only time Yeshua refers to these serpents/vipers in any kind of positive sense, is when he sends out the 70 or 72 disciples into the gentile world, and he cautions them among others things to be as gentle as doves, but as wise* as serpents.     But that is not the more accurate translation, the more accurate translation of that word is not wise, but more akin to the concept/idea of clever.  Yeshua was basically saying something like, keep your street smarts about you when in these foreign lands, don't let people trick or take advantage of you, but at the same time, do no harm (gentle as doves).    Now, how did Yeshua go about making this association between serpents/vipers and cleverness if he was only speaking about earthly snakes or lizards?  What about them seems particularly clever?  Doves being gentle makes sense, but the other one doesn't.    Perhaps this this hits home the point that he was possibly referring to perhaps a very intelligent ET race that tends to be more clever than humans?    How is Satan/the Devil, the tempter and misleader of humanity from the beginning a "serpent" and/or dragon like?  Perhaps John knew, either from what Yeshua told him or psychically, that the Reptilian ET's have been involved in misleading humans from the get go.    Maybe people had had physical and nonphysical encounters with these evil, psychopathic beings and saw that they looked akin to our earthly reptilians in some ways?   That is exactly what Amram in the Dead Sea Scrolls states.      When there is so much circumstantial evidence for something, and so many diverse and unrelated sources speaking of similar things, chances are, there is probably something to it.     We humans know next to nothing about ET's and ET life.  Bob Monroe was told that there were countless ET groups out there.  Is it logical or even probable that all of them are PUL based and friendly towards humans?  p.s. http://www.ancient-origins.net/unexplained-phenomena/unanswered-mystery-7000-year-old-ubaid-lizardmen-001116   The Asian cultures speak of dragons more so than serpents.  For some reason, they venerated these more than some Western cultures which typically viewed them more as evil.  Sometime people like to venerate anything that is more seemingly powerful than themselves, or because they lack insight into the nature of that which they are venerating.

Jesus, not Yahshua, we are English speakers on this forum, if you insist on using Hebrew names, then I can give you a link to a Hebrew bible site

God would never create ET monsters ETS are just a lot of idiotic rubbish that does not exist other than in the imagination of the stupid

The "Dead Sea Scrolls do not talk about reptilian looking psychotic like humans beings,  give me a reference I do not believe that rubbish.

You said it was written in the Dead Sea Scrolls, where there is an exact reference to reptilian-like beings."

If so, then give me a reference, where I can find these exact writings in these ancient documents. You should not make such claims unless you back it up with solid facts?

AGAIN

Jesus not Yahshua

Alan:

Does God want you to call people stupid?

recoverer wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 12:13pm:

Alan: Does God want you to call people stupid?

Again you want to make Almighty God into some all forgiving old grandpa in the sky.

I said that some people are stupid, how on earth would I know what an Infinite Being thought of the issue.

However, in my opinion, if someone is stupid against all evidence that proves his beliefs are nonsense, God would have no reservations calling him stupid.

I did not mean mentally challenged people

I meant people who believe the Earth is flat or hollow or the whole universe was created in just six literal days and the age of the Earth is only six thousand years old. They are stupid what else should I call them , no amount of evidence to the contrary, will shift them out of their stupidity. Even some scientist believe this garbage and this makes them even more stupid than the man on the street because they should know better!!

Lies are closely linked to creating a host of stupid people, those who believe lying nonsense are stupid Period!

Stupidity is stupidity no matter the source of that stupidity if Albert Einstein said something stupid, it is stupidity on his behalf!

Only stupid people believe that George Bush or the British royal shapeshifting reptilian aliens.

Do you really think the Creator of Heaven and Earth would create alien monsters and reptilian shapeshifters?

By the way, to shapeshifting is a scientific impossibility and utter nonsensical rubbish!

If people can exist as mammals, why couldn't an alien race exist in some form of Reptilian form?

On one of your posts you stated that God created Satan because he wanted evil to oppose us, but then you doubt that he would create Reptilian like beings. Seems kind of contradictory. Of course if Reptilian like beings exist (It's a big universe out there, all kinds of beings might exist), they could've been created without God creating them directly.

Consider yourself, to some degree God created you, but I doubt that he created you with the thought that you would  someday express the viewpoints you are now expressing. Your viewpoints are the result of how free will has been expressed by your soul. Well, sort of free will, at the time you are so caught up in a fear-based belief system, it doesn't seem as if you are able to use your free will in a truly meaningful way.

I doubt that God would use a derogatory term such as stupid in the way you use it. Rather, he understands that sometimes people becomes confused.

The fact of how the Bible can play a role in people getting caught up in fear-based belief systems such as the one you are demonstrating, shows that the Bible wasn't written by God, for he would write a book that wouldn't have such an effect. The Bible was written by numerous men, its chapters were chosen and translated by men, and some of these chapters are based on stories that were passed on by word of mouth for a number of years before the stories were written. This being the case,  certainly there is some room for error. Can you see this?

In my mind, dualism (seeing the world as good vs. evil, light vs. dark, us vs. them) is to lose the forest for the trees.  There is a unity underneath it all, and the most enlightened folk seem to get beyond the game of forms, the false polarity of opposites, and get in touch with the divine without the need to separate forces into opposing sides. 

Our primary source of unhappiness is the false notion that we are isolated beings separate from God and the rest of the universe.  It is a false notion, perpetuated by our ego, which sets up the polarity of opposites, and so most of us get lost in this reality of "us vs. them."  And in that mindset, evil does indeed exist - if you choose to live in that mindset.  And evil doers, are people like everyone else, who choose to do evil.  They choose to ignore their inner essence of goodness, and their actions bind them in the physical world. 

Lao Tzu talks of another mindset that of the Tao.  The Tao, which literally means "way" is, God's connection to all things, unmanifest and manifest.  He who is in touch with this can see the opposites (good, evil, light and dark) but realizes, at a fundamental level that these are artificial distinctions of polarities on a continuum. 

There is no opposite to love.  Love, as I understand it is not the opposite of hate.  The opposite of hating is "liking" something in an ego-related way.  Love is part of our primal essence.  An evil person chooses to turn away from love (and God).  It is an active choice. 

An enlightened thinker can move past these polarities, and try to walk the walk of being true to their loving nature, without having to dwell in the false polarity of opposites.

M

DocM wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 1:54pm:

In my mind, dualism (seeing the world as good vs. evil, light vs. dark, us vs. them) is to lose the forest for the trees.  There is a unity underneath it all, and the most enlightened folk seem to get beyond the game of forms, the false polarity of opposites, and get in touch with the divine without the need to separate forces into opposing sides.  Our primary source of unhappiness is the false notion that we are isolated beings separate from God and the rest of the universe.  It is a false notion, perpetuated by our ego, which sets up the polarity of opposites, and so most of us get lost in this reality of "us vs. them."  And in that mindset, evil does indeed exist - if you choose to live in that mindset.  And evil doers, are people like everyone else, who choose to do evil.  They choose to ignore their inner essence of goodness, and their actions bind them in the physical world.  Lao Tzu talks of another mindset that of the Tao.  The Tao, which literally means "way" is, God's connection to all things, unmanifest and manifest.  He who is in touch with this can see the opposites (good, evil, light and dark) but realizes, at a fundamental level that these are artificial distinctions of polarities on a continuum.  There is no opposite to love.  Love, as I understand it is not the opposite of hate.  The opposite of hating is "liking" something in an ego-related way.  Love is part of our primal essence.  An evil person chooses to turn away from love (and God).  It is an active choice.  An enlightened thinker can move past these polarities, and try to walk the walk of being true to their loving nature, without having to dwell in the false polarity of opposites. M

You quote all the above as if it were fact when it is just your opinion!

And to top it all you say an enlightened thinker will work past duality, That makes me a dark and most unenlightened thinker.

Duality is real, right there in your face every day, yet you are delusional and think it is not there.

Like evil not existing and only good a reality, something like a donut, with the do ring representing good and the empty hole showing that evil is just nothing but air and does not exist as a reality!.

Go and tell that nonsense to the victims of Hitlers Death Camps and you will get a very hot response from such rubbish.

Evil is a real as Good.

recoverer wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 1:23pm:

If people can exist as mammals, why couldn't an alien race exist in some form of Reptilian form? On one of your posts you stated that God created Satan because he wanted evil to oppose us, but then you doubt that he would create Reptilian like beings. Seems kind of contradictory. Of course if Reptilian like beings exist (It's a big universe out there, all kinds of beings might exist), they could've been created without God creating them directly. Consider yourself, to some degree God created you, but I doubt that he created you with the thought that you would  someday express the viewpoints you are now expressing. Your viewpoints are the result of how free will has been expressed by your soul. Well, sort of free will, at the time you are so caught up in a fear-based belief system, it doesn't seem as if you are able to use your free will in a truly meaningful way. I doubt that God would use a derogatory term such as stupid in the way you use it. Rather, he understands that sometimes people becomes confused. The fact of how the Bible can play a role in people getting caught up in fear-based belief systems such as the one you are demonstrating, shows that the Bible wasn't written by God, for he would write a book that wouldn't have such an effect. The Bible was written by numerous men, its chapters were chosen and translated by men, and some of these chapters are based on stories that were passed on by word of mouth for a number of years before the stories were written. This being the case,  certainly there is some room for error. Can you see this?

Who is this YOU you are speaking to in this post?