Greetings to all.

   I have had some revelations through meditation recently that I would like to share. It all concerns the matter of the nature of our planet. Most people believe that the Earth is solid and we are the only inhabitants that dwell on the surface.

   Some of you may have heard of the stories about Agartha the inner earth with a central sun. There is much more to this that has been discovered more recently building the case for a hollow center.

Sorry I can't think right now to post other sources of info. I'll reply another time when I find them.

I'm back.

   I just had the most wonderful weekend  with learning new things. Going back to the topic of the hollow earth, there is someone who brings this out now with his showhttp://www.gaia.com/show/cosmic-disclosure

   I always had dreams of living underneath the surface of our planet. I would be meeting people who met with me and we would go down through hallways descending into lower areas where other people were going about their business and showing me things that they have down there.

   Here is a webpage with good information about Agartha:http://humansarefree.com/2011/05/hollow-earth-agartha-complete.html

Ralph

The earth is solid, however, the further down you get the hotter it becomes. I know this because I worked for over 8 years on the South African Gold Mines


To suggest that our solid earth is hollow is as stupid as saying it is a a soft boiled egg

   For anyone like me who can't afford to watch the videos, they offer transcripts of the shows from Cosmic Disclosure.

Here are links to those transcripts if you care to read about what they discuss:
http://spherebeingalliance.com/blog/transcript-cosmic-disclosure-introduction-to-inner-earth.html
http://spherebeingalliance.com/blog/transcript-cosmic-disclosure-a-goode-trip-to-the-inner-earth.html
http://spherebeingalliance.com/blog/transcript-cosmic-disclosure-revelations-from-the-inner-earth.html
http://spherebeingalliance.com/blog/transcript-cosmic-disclosure-inner-earth-the-grand-tour.html
http://spherebeingalliance.com/blog/transcript-cosmic-disclosure-inner-earth-the-library.html
http://spherebeingalliance.com/blog/transcript-cosmic-disclosure-inner-earth-into-the-hall-of-records.html
http://spherebeingalliance.com/blog/transcript-cosmic-disclosure-inner-earth-debriefing-with-the-alliance.html

Ralph

That's interesting Ralph.
Here is a brief overview of the general subject. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth

I expect great subterranean caverns do exist in certain places. Probably many caverns. And perhaps they have been accessed and utilised before. Time may tell.

I doubt the secret diary version sometimes attributed to Admiral Byrd though. But who knows?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzWHqooAJtM

From a certain angle, above the physical plane and above the astral planes that surround the Earth, it is apparent that the physical Earth as we know it is down in the depths of the overall planet, for the physical planet is surrounded by countless astral planes. So in a sense we do live in the centre of the Earth.

Even the Sun and its light as we know it which is visible on the physical plane is not visible on most astral planes, which cast their own light directly from their matter, like stars do, as opposed to planets which reflect light from stars. Hence the astral planes are called astral, after their astral matter, meaning star like, or casting its own light. Anyway, even the physical Sun can be seen as belonging to the central Earth physical plane and as part of the concave physical sphere that is the physical solar system as we know it. Its all in the place and angle of view, and I am describing a very objective view indeed.
   
Oh, and by the way. Gravity is a funny thing indeed, and not yet well understood, though we are getting there, as those who follow such developments will know.

But those who are reasonably proficient at consciously leaving the body can gain a good view of gravity, what it is and how it works. One of the interesting things about it is that at the depths of every centre of gravity, ie at the centre of every planet, galaxy, universe... is a point that penetrates into another dimension, or more accurately is drawn into another dimension. So the gravity we feel is actually secondary gravity, or the effect of the draw or gravity of the dimension upon which our dimension adheres. Anyway, my point is that when out of the body, we can certainly go to the depth of any centre of gravity and emerge into another dimension. And in a sense, that makes things like planets and galaxies hollow or funnel-like.

       

The outrageous nonsense of a hollow earth, belongs, with the lunatic fringe and is idiotic nonsense, like the universe being created in six literal days and that our 5.5 billion years old earth is only six thousand years old.

1796 wrote on Mar 15^th, 2016 at 11:29pm:

That's interesting Ralph. Here is a brief overview of the general subject. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth I expect great subterranean caverns do exist in certain places. Probably many caverns. And perhaps they have been accessed and utilised before. Time may tell. I doubt the secret diary version sometimes attributed to Admiral Byrd though. But who knows? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzWHqooAJtM From a certain angle, above the physical plane and above the astral planes that surround the Earth, it is apparent that the physical Earth as we know it is down in the depths of the overall planet, for the physical planet is surrounded by countless astral planes. So in a sense we do live in the centre of the Earth. Even the Sun and its light as we know it which is visible on the physical plane is not visible on most astral planes, which cast their own light directly from their matter, like stars do, as opposed to planets which reflect light from stars. Hence the astral planes are called astral, after their astral matter, meaning star like, or casting its own light. Anyway, even the physical Sun can be seen as belonging to the central Earth physical plane and as part of the concave physical sphere that is the physical solar system as we know it. Its all in the place and angle of view, and I am describing a very objective view indeed.     Oh, and by the way. Gravity is a funny thing indeed, and not yet well understood, though we are getting there, as those who follow such developments will know. But those who are reasonably proficient at consciously leaving the body can gain a good view of gravity, what it is and how it works. One of the interesting things about it is that at the depths of every centre of gravity, ie at the centre of every planet, galaxy, universe... is a point that penetrates into another dimension, or more accurately is drawn into another dimension. So the gravity we feel is actually secondary gravity, or the effect of the draw or gravity of the dimension upon which our dimension adheres. Anyway, my point is that when out of the body, we can certainly go to the depth of any centre of gravity and emerge into another dimension. And in a sense, that makes things like planets and galaxies hollow or funnel-like.

How do you know all the above as fact, when in my opinion it is just fabricated wild fiction??

why stop there?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e9DBXdXxAc

Quote:

The outrageous nonsense of a hollow earth, belongs, with the lunatic fringe and is idiotic nonsense, like the universe being created in six literal days and that our 5.5 billion years old earth is only six thousand years old.

I thought you've been preaching sin and damnation. Maybe you can explain to me how the Bible works without the sin in the garden?

doodad wrote on Mar 16^th, 2016 at 1:48pm:

Quote: The outrageous nonsense of a hollow earth, belongs, with the lunatic fringe and is idiotic nonsense, like the universe being created in six literal days and that our 5.5 billion years old earth is only six thousand years old. I thought you've been preaching sin and damnation. Maybe you can explain to me how the Bible works without the sin in the garden?

The Garden Oof Eden and what happened there is a mythical account of how God dealt with early true humans. I am not a fundamentalist and God has given me the intelligence to find truth in a mythical allegory.

I did not preach all I did was say we are accountable, to a Holy Almighty God, for what we do, or do not do, during our time here on planet earth.

Accountable for how we used the precious gift of free will during out lives on planet earth

God is not some sort of kind gray-haired old lovey, dovey, lovey, dovey all forgiving old smiling Santa?

While it is true that God is love God also says.

a) Vengeance is mine I will judge and punish.

b) It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God

c) God is a consuming fire.

d) You cannot look on God and live.

Almighty God is not going to gently tap the likes of Hitler on his rear end and gently say, "Adolf you have been a naughty boy, but I forgive you, come into paradise with me!"

The reality of it is that Hitler is going to be tormented day and night forever, cry out for mercy he did not give his victims

No animal goes around killing its own kind in the millions like we do.

For example, if you had a hypothetical field full of sheep, which you allow exit in it, without interference from you, other than you observing them from the edge of the grassy field.

You see all the sheep doing what sheep do until yu notice an anomaly.

In this most beautiful field of green rich grass, you find out that one of them has rabies(Sin) and starts killing its own kind in a sort of "Mad Cow" disease, you will be forced to separate it from the herd and kill it.

This is almost exactly what Almighty God is going to do with humanity, selectively, separate truly evil human monsters judge them and send then into aa place so terrible, forever, that even He Almighty God does not want to look into it.

These "Monsters in human form are the likes of child sexual  abusers and other all forms of evil.

Alan McDougall wrote on Mar 16^th, 2016 at 1:22pm:

1796 wrote on Mar 15th, 2016 at 11:29pm: That's interesting Ralph. Here is a brief overview of the general subject. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth I expect great subterranean caverns do exist in certain places. Probably many caverns. And perhaps they have been accessed and utilised before. Time may tell. I doubt the secret diary version sometimes attributed to Admiral Byrd though. But who knows? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzWHqooAJtM From a certain angle, above the physical plane and above the astral planes that surround the Earth, it is apparent that the physical Earth as we know it is down in the depths of the overall planet, for the physical planet is surrounded by countless astral planes. So in a sense we do live in the centre of the Earth. Even the Sun and its light as we know it which is visible on the physical plane is not visible on most astral planes, which cast their own light directly from their matter, like stars do, as opposed to planets which reflect light from stars. Hence the astral planes are called astral, after their astral matter, meaning star like, or casting its own light. Anyway, even the physical Sun can be seen as belonging to the central Earth physical plane and as part of the concave physical sphere that is the physical solar system as we know it. Its all in the place and angle of view, and I am describing a very objective view indeed.     Oh, and by the way. Gravity is a funny thing indeed, and not yet well understood, though we are getting there, as those who follow such developments will know. But those who are reasonably proficient at consciously leaving the body can gain a good view of gravity, what it is and how it works. One of the interesting things about it is that at the depths of every centre of gravity, ie at the centre of every planet, galaxy, universe... is a point that penetrates into another dimension, or more accurately is drawn into another dimension. So the gravity we feel is actually secondary gravity, or the effect of the draw or gravity of the dimension upon which our dimension adheres. Anyway, my point is that when out of the body, we can certainly go to the depth of any centre of gravity and emerge into another dimension. And in a sense, that makes things like planets and galaxies hollow or funnel-like.         How do you know all the above as fact, when in my opinion it is just fabricated wild fiction??

I may know it to be fact, but no one else can know it to be fact until they do too. So I put it out there for consideration by those who might wish to consider it.

I don't want to be believed about such things. If someone where to respond saying they believed me about such things then I would make a comment to throw them back upon their self, upon their own conscience, their own intellect, their own judgement, considerations, and heart. The last thing I want is for anyone to blindly believe me. I really dislike that, and I regularly discourage it and frequently push people back upon themselves.     

Anything that is heard or read, whether it be true or false or a mixture of both, is only information to the recipient, not knowledge. Information at best can only serve as a guide towards knowledge of truth, and at worst can serve to persuade one away from truth, towards falsity. That is the nature of life as humans. We must find life's answers for our self.

So whether I know it to be factual or not is irrelevant to the recipient of the information, or should be, for he must discover truth himself, or herself.

There is only one truth though, for in its fullness there is only one way things are, not two or more in contradiction. What most psychologists teach about there being multiple individual truths being all true, about there being "no such thing as truth, only individual perception", about something being true for one person and another thing being true for another person, and that, "if you feel it then its true for you", is just a debating and manipulating tactic used for power and control over others. Truth is how things are.

I often state things as if they are fact, particularly when I know them to be fact. But that is my knowledge, not anyone else's until they have it too. I state things as fact because I credit people with their own freewill. And freewill includes free intellect, free choice, freedom to consider, freedom to wonder, to ponder, to contemplate and to think for themselves. I credit them with that, even when they don't credit themselves with it.

Some people get offended by me stating things as if they are fact, as if I know them to be true. They bleat that I am taking away their freewill or free determination. If I give instructions on how to do something, they confuse them for orders, and then complain that they are being told what to do. They even claim I am doing this to them across an internet forum and through their computer screen. Such people have what is termed an "external locus of control". Although they talk about having freewill they actually have little concept of their own freewill and responsibility. Freewill is just a vague notion to them. And their own individual accountability is something they shy from. As freewill goes together with their own responsibility and accountability, and as they reject the latter, they cannot understand or properly accept the former.

If they did comprehend their own freewill and responsibility then they would not exhibit an external locus of control and would not so easily feel "offended", "bullied" and "oppressed" by what other people say. For our freewill applies not only to what we do and what comes from us, but also to how we let external things effect us.   

I am frequently told by such people that I should introduce what they call "my truth" by saying, "In my opinion...", or, "It seems to me that...". Such people love to tell others how to talk, for their external locus of control means they can only control their own feelings by controlling other people. They have developed little emotional independence. They usually consider their unpleasant feelings to be someone else's fault.

If something is my opinion or if it seems a certain way to me, then I may introduce it as such. But if I know it, then I may just state it, and let others consider it by their own means. I credit people with more freewill than they usually credit themselves.

I refuse to reinforce people's insecurities and to encourage their self imposed limitations by introducing my statements with, "In my opinion/It seems to me..." etc, just so they don't feel offended, controlled or oppressed by what I say. That would just be reinforcing their lack of development, and I don't wish to do that. I would rather speak to them as if they have the independent freedom of thought that I know they have, at least potentially.   

Besides, such people are mostly not as nice and considerate as they pretend to be. They are quite happy to use their often feigned offendedness to limit and control what others can say, to encourage others to join them in being offended, and to do harm or see harm done to those who do not comply with their demands on how to speak and be. Many of them actually have a dislike of other people's freewill, and are continually trying to restrict and limit it to their own liking. That is a love of power and control over others. I don't comply with such people. Certainly not when I don't have to.   

So consider or don't consider whatever I say. Reject it, or wonder about it, and perhaps let it stretch the mind a little, and maybe the heart too. Dismiss it as false, accept it as "perhaps", or leave it as unknown. Explore it or don't. I am just as happy whatever is done with it. But don't blindly believe me -- that is all I really don't want.        

   

1796 wrote on Mar 16^th, 2016 at 11:23pm:

Alan McDougall wrote on Mar 16th, 2016 at 1:22pm: 1796 wrote on Mar 15th, 2016 at 11:29pm: That's interesting Ralph. Here is a brief overview of the general subject. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth I expect great subterranean caverns do exist in certain places. Probably many caverns. And perhaps they have been accessed and utilised before. Time may tell. I doubt the secret diary version sometimes attributed to Admiral Byrd though. But who knows? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzWHqooAJtM From a certain angle, above the physical plane and above the astral planes that surround the Earth, it is apparent that the physical Earth as we know it is down in the depths of the overall planet, for the physical planet is surrounded by countless astral planes. So in a sense we do live in the centre of the Earth. Even the Sun and its light as we know it which is visible on the physical plane is not visible on most astral planes, which cast their own light directly from their matter, like stars do, as opposed to planets which reflect light from stars. Hence the astral planes are called astral, after their astral matter, meaning star like, or casting its own light. Anyway, even the physical Sun can be seen as belonging to the central Earth physical plane and as part of the concave physical sphere that is the physical solar system as we know it. Its all in the place and angle of view, and I am describing a very objective view indeed.     Oh, and by the way. Gravity is a funny thing indeed, and not yet well understood, though we are getting there, as those who follow such developments will know. But those who are reasonably proficient at consciously leaving the body can gain a good view of gravity, what it is and how it works. One of the interesting things about it is that at the depths of every centre of gravity, ie at the centre of every planet, galaxy, universe... is a point that penetrates into another dimension, or more accurately is drawn into another dimension. So the gravity we feel is actually secondary gravity, or the effect of the draw or gravity of the dimension upon which our dimension adheres. Anyway, my point is that when out of the body, we can certainly go to the depth of any centre of gravity and emerge into another dimension. And in a sense, that makes things like planets and galaxies hollow or funnel-like.         How do you know all the above as fact, when in my opinion it is just fabricated wild fiction?? I may know it to be fact, but no one else can know it to be fact until they do too. So I put it out there for consideration by those who might wish to consider it. I don't want to be believed about such things. If someone where to respond saying they believed me about such things then I would make a comment to throw them back upon their self, upon their own conscience, their own intellect, their own judgement, considerations, and heart. The last thing I want is for anyone to blindly believe me. I really dislike that, and I regularly discourage it and frequently push people back upon themselves.      Anything that is heard or read, whether it be true or false or a mixture of both, is only information to the recipient, not knowledge. Information at best can only serve as a guide towards knowledge of truth, and at worst can serve to persuade one away from truth, towards falsity. That is the nature of life as humans. We must find life's answers for our self. So whether I know it to be factual or not is irrelevant to the recipient of the information, or should be, for he must discover truth himself, or herself. There is only one truth though, for in its fullness there is only one way things are, not two or more in contradiction. What most psychologists teach about there being multiple individual truths being all true, about there being "no such thing as truth, only individual perception", about something being true for one person and another thing being true for another person, and that, "if you feel it then its true for you", is just a debating and manipulating tactic used for power and control over others. Truth is how things are. I often state things as if they are fact, particularly when I know them to be fact. But that is my knowledge, not anyone else's until they have it too. I state things as fact because I credit people with their own freewill. And freewill includes free intellect, free choice, freedom to consider, freedom to wonder, to ponder, to contemplate and to think for themselves. I credit them with that, even when they don't credit themselves with it. Some people get offended by me stating things as if they are fact, as if I know them to be true. They bleat that I am taking away their freewill or free determination. If I give instructions on how to do something, they confuse them for orders, and then complain that they are being told what to do. They even claim I am doing this to them across an internet forum and through their computer screen. Such people have what is termed an "external locus of control". Although they talk about having freewill they actually have little concept of their own freewill and responsibility. Freewill is just a vague notion to them. And their own individual accountability is something they shy from. As freewill goes together with their own responsibility and accountability, and as they reject the latter, they cannot understand or properly accept the former. If they did comprehend their own freewill and responsibility then they would not exhibit an external locus of control and would not so easily feel "offended", "bullied" and "oppressed" by what other people say. For our freewill applies not only to what we do and what comes from us, but also to how we let external things effect us.    I am frequently told by such people that I should introduce what they call "my truth" by saying, "In my opinion...", or, "It seems to me that...". Such people love to tell others how to talk, for their external locus of control means they can only control their own feelings by controlling other people. They have developed little emotional independence. They usually consider their unpleasant feelings to be someone else's fault. If something is my opinion or if it seems a certain way to me, then I may introduce it as such. But if I know it, then I may just state it, and let others consider it by their own means. I credit people with more freewill than they usually credit themselves. I refuse to reinforce people's insecurities and to encourage their self imposed limitations by introducing my statements with, "In my opinion/It seems to me..." etc, just so they don't feel offended, controlled or oppressed by what I say. That would just be reinforcing their lack of development, and I don't wish to do that. I would rather speak to them as if they have the independent freedom of thought that I know they have, at least potentially.    Besides, such people are mostly not as nice and considerate as they pretend to be. They are quite happy to use their often feigned offendedness to limit and control what others can say, to encourage others to join them in being offended, and to do harm or see harm done to those who do not comply with their demands on how to speak and be. Many of them actually have a dislike of other people's freewill, and are continually trying to restrict and limit it to their own liking. That is a love of power and control over others. I don't comply with such people. Certainly not when I don't have to.    So consider or don't consider whatever I say. Reject it, or wonder about it, and perhaps let it stretch the mind a little, and maybe the heart too. Dismiss it as false, accept it as "perhaps", or leave it as unknown. Explore it or don't. I am just as happy whatever is done with it. But don't blindly believe me -- that is all I really don't want.

If you write something that is just your opinion or belief, you should clearly state that to the the forum members and not in the manner of your post, which suggests that you are revealing some secret/sacred truth to them

I reserve the right to reject the Hollow earth concept as abject nonsense.

Why stop there how about that 'Flat Earth Society" Why not embrace them also?

I do not have 'Self Imposed Limitations" this is a grouse insult to my intelligence as well as the other readers of your post

Leaving your physical body is not permitted by Almighty God and if you disobey him and actuality do it, you will become the house of demons and have to work yourself back to God, through years of desolation of your spirit, brought on by yourself.

This will happen to you if you from now on continue to ignore the will of the Almighty.

Take this as a warning and if you continue to encourage other people to leave their physical bodies, you will activate a curse into your life and the lives of your most beloved ones

Reincarnation or incarnating to some other realm in a physical body I reject as nonsense.

We only have one mortal physical life after which our spirit return to Almighty God where we will all account for every action or inaction, both positive or negative a receive righteous judgement from the King of Creation

Quote:

The Garden Oof Eden and what happened there is a mythical account of how God dealt with early true humans. I am not a fundamentalist and God has given me the intelligence to find truth in a mythical allegory.

Why is it an allegory? And how do you know then that the rest of the Bible, including the parts of the wrathful judging God who sends people to burn in inexpressible torture for ever and ever, isn't an allegory? Or just myths? And don't give me your subjective experience - it means nothing to me.

doodad wrote on Mar 17^th, 2016 at 9:32am:

Quote: The Garden Oof Eden and what happened there is a mythical account of how God dealt with early true humans. I am not a fundamentalist and God has given me the intelligence to find truth in a mythical allegory. Why is it an allegory? And how do you know then that the rest of the Bible, including the parts of the wrathful judging God who sends people to burn in inexpressible torture for ever and ever, isn't an allegory? Or just myths? And don't give me your subjective experience - it means nothing to me.

I know what I know because I communicate with God and by that method know what is symbolic and what is literal facts in the bible.

And your questions mean nothing to me and I have a right to my own subjective experiences and do not care one bit if you believe me or not!

There is a heaven

There is a Hell

There is a God

There is a Devil

Every person that has ever lived will stand before Almighty God and give account for every act or inaction, every word spoken in private or public.

God is who he is, not what you want him to be!

God is love, however, God has other attributes, such as

Wrath

Vengeance is mine says the Lord

God is a consuming fire

It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Living God

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

Do you think that in the afterlife, God will gently and lovingly tap the likes of a depraved paedophile and sexual pervert, (who has abused even murdered little children), and kindly say  "You have been a very naughty person"

"I forgive all your unspeakable depravity and send you to heavens rehab center for the depraved and, reprobes and after you are cured, bring you into my perfect Holy Light and Love" Really??

While you can ask God questions you cannot question his Divine will

Also the bible does not contain all truth, it only sets you on a path to the truth, which is?

The Lord Jesus Christ

Jesus did not show one the light, Jesus is Lightt

Jesus did not show the path to truth Jesus is truth

Jesus did not show the way to love, Jesus is Love

I don't believe in a wrathful God that I've never seen.

I've seen some wrath here on earth, and that ain't God.

seagull wrote on Mar 17^th, 2016 at 6:55pm:

I don't believe in a wrathful God that I've never seen. I've seen some wrath here on earth, and that ain't God.

What you or I believe will not alter the truth, the truth is the truth no matter what we think it is.

You have seen God the universe declares his design and reflects the glory of the Infinite Being.

The truth is truth.

God exists and the likes of Hitler will account to Almighty God and receive a just punishment

Just try and imagine the life review that Hitler would have had to endure and that is before his sentence of everlasting separation from God in a place so awful even God does not like to look into it.

He will thrust (Hitler is in a sort of holding cell) into the pit and forget about him there, forever and forever and forever.

Alan McDougall wrote on Mar 17^th, 2016 at 3:27am:

If you write something that is just your opinion or belief, you should clearly state that to the the forum members and not in the manner of your post, which suggests that you are revealing some secret/sacred truth to them I reserve the right to reject the Hollow earth concept as abject nonsense. Why stop there how about that 'Flat Earth Society" Why not embrace them also? I do not have 'Self Imposed Limitations" this is a grouse insult to my intelligence as well as the other readers of your post Leaving your physical body is not permitted by Almighty God and if you disobey him and actuality do it, you will become the house of demons and have to work yourself back to God, through years of desolation of your spirit, brought on by yourself. This will happen to you if you from now on continue to ignore the will of the Almighty. Take this as a warning and if you continue to encourage other people to leave their physical bodies, you will activate a curse into your life and the lives of your most beloved ones Reincarnation or incarnating to some other realm in a physical body I reject as nonsense. We only have one mortal physical life after which our spirit return to Almighty God where we will all account for every action or inaction, both positive or negative a receive righteous judgement from the King of Creation

1. You misunderstood. Or I was not clear. To the reader who is not hung up, who has an internal or better still, a centralised locus of control, has his own mind, and who can differentiate between information and knowledge, it doesn't matter whether I say something is my opinion or my knowledge. He treats it the same. As information. And weighs it for himself.

2. The principle contributor for my out-of-body excursions is prayer. Is prayer to Almighty God. It is prayer that causes the out-of-body experiences, and prayer that causes second sight too, and other things. Often I have had no intention whatsoever to leave the body, it just occurs during prayer, or afterwards. I may have a strong yearning to know about something, and then in prayer or after prayer I am enabled to go and see for myself. But everything in one's psyche and life must be lined up, like the disks or pins in a lock. If things are all in place, and if such experiences are permitted within the purpose of one's life, then such experiences can be a natural result of intense prayer. And the prayer must be potent prayer, combining faith, love, soul and breath.   

3. It is true that we only have one life on Earth. But there are more layers to the Earth than we can commonly see from this most densest layer. From when we first enter into Earth, to when we finally depart, is one life with many sub-lives cycling through the Earth's layers, until we have learnt all Earth's lessons. That we only have one life here is true, and that we have many is also true.

4. I may talk of leaving the body, but my first encouragement of others is towards their own best self, their conscience, their better judgement, their own life duties, and to the timeless virtues that liberate the soul, such as faith, charity, love, forgiveness, truth, thankfulness, courage, strength, kindness, chivalry, harmlessness, and many others. An appreciation of freewill and its potential to learn, within their self, and more importantly within others. To cultivate a sense of good humour, even in adversity. To have thankfulness every day, for all life's blessings, even the littlest ones. I encourage others not to follow the crowd, unless they judge the crowd to be right, but to think carefully for themselves, to develop their own conscience, and strength of character, to be their own man, and their own woman. To be the best father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister, friend, worker, colleague, employer, neighbour, that they can be. And to do so quietly, without fanfare or big noting. And without expectations on others, but only on their self. To work on their own character as best they can, in the direction their own conscience and best judgement would have them go. If on top of attending to that, and whatever else they need to attend to in their life, they also wish to explore the possibilities of soul, perhaps through leaving the body, then I am laying down some hints and guidelines.      

5. Throughout my posts are sprinkled definitions. Definitions are the building blocks of thought and understanding. Descriptions too, and laws, rules and guidelines. They are only information, not knowledge until proven to be so by the individual. Such definitions can be pondered and mulled over by those who will, and used by those who wish to trial them. Contemplated and installed if considered useful. Adjusted to suit themselves or used as is. I reserve no copyright on such things. Most of them are not mine anyway. I was given them. Regarding those definitions that I word, I encourage others to make my words their words, my understandings their understandings, if that suits them. I am happy for others to run with what I put out there. I don't want credit. As said, they were given to me freely, and they have served me immensely well, and I put them out freely for others to use or adopt and hopefully be benefitted even more than I have been.   

cb

1796 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2016 at 5:11am:

Alan McDougall wrote on Mar 17th, 2016 at 3:27am: If you write something that is just your opinion or belief, you should clearly state that to the the forum members and not in the manner of your post, which suggests that you are revealing some secret/sacred truth to them I reserve the right to reject the Hollow earth concept as abject nonsense. Why stop there how about that 'Flat Earth Society" Why not embrace them also? I do not have 'Self Imposed Limitations" this is a grouse insult to my intelligence as well as the other readers of your post Leaving your physical body is not permitted by Almighty God and if you disobey him and actuality do it, you will become the house of demons and have to work yourself back to God, through years of desolation of your spirit, brought on by yourself. This will happen to you if you from now on continue to ignore the will of the Almighty. Take this as a warning and if you continue to encourage other people to leave their physical bodies, you will activate a curse into your life and the lives of your most beloved ones Reincarnation or incarnating to some other realm in a physical body I reject as nonsense. We only have one mortal physical life after which our spirit return to Almighty God where we will all account for every action or inaction, both positive or negative a receive righteous judgement from the King of Creation 1. You misunderstood. Or I was not clear. To the reader who is not hung up, who has an internal or better still, a centralised locus of control, has his own mind, and who can differentiate between information and knowledge, it doesn't matter whether I say something is my opinion or my knowledge. He treats it the same. As information. And weighs it for himself. 2. The principle contributor for my out-of-body excursions is prayer. Is prayer to Almighty God. It is prayer that causes the out-of-body experiences, and prayer that causes second sight too, and other things. Often I have had no intention whatsoever to leave the body, it just occurs during prayer, or afterwards. I may have a strong yearning to know about something, and then in prayer or after prayer I am enabled to go and see for myself. But everything in one's psyche and life must be lined up, like the disks or pins in a lock. If things are all in place, and if such experiences are permitted within the purpose of one's life, then such experiences can be a natural result of intense prayer. And the prayer must be potent prayer, combining faith, love, soul and breath.    3. It is true that we only have one life on Earth. But there are more layers to the Earth than we can commonly see from this most densest layer. From when we first enter into Earth, to when we finally depart, is one life with many sub-lives cycling through the Earth's layers, until we have learnt all Earth's lessons. That we only have one life here is true, and that we have many is also true. 4. I may talk of leaving the body, but my first encouragement of others is towards their own best self, their conscience, their better judgement, their own life duties, and to the timeless virtues that liberate the soul, such as faith, charity, love, forgiveness, truth, thankfulness, courage, strength, kindness, chivalry, harmlessness, and many others. An appreciation of freewill and its potential to learn, within their self, and more importantly within others. To cultivate a sense of good humour, even in adversity. To have thankfulness every day, for all life's blessings, even the littlest ones. I encourage others not to follow the crowd, unless they judge the crowd to be right, but to think carefully for themselves, to develop their own conscience, and strength of character, to be their own man, and their own woman. To be the best father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister, friend, worker, colleague, employer, neighbour, that they can be. And to do so quietly, without fanfare or big noting. And without expectations on others, but only on their self. To work on their own character as best they can, in the direction their own conscience and best judgement would have them go. If on top of attending to that, and whatever else they need to attend to in their life, they also wish to explore the possibilities of soul, perhaps through leaving the body, then I am laying down some hints and guidelines.       5. Throughout my posts are sprinkled definitions. Definitions are the building blocks of thought and understanding. Descriptions too, and laws, rules and guidelines. They are only information, not knowledge until proven to be so by the individual. Such definitions can be pondered and mulled over by those who will, and used by those who wish to trial them. Contemplated and installed if considered useful. Adjusted to suit themselves or used as is. I reserve no copyright on such things. Most of them are not mine anyway. I was given them. Regarding those definitions that I word, I encourage others to make my words their words, my understandings their understandings, if that suits them. I am happy for others to run with what I put out there. I don't want credit. As said, they were given to me freely, and they have served me immensely well, and I put them out freely for others to use or adopt and hopefully be benefitted even more than I have been.    cb

[color=#00ffff]

So you claim that Prayer to Almighty God twists his arm so that he goes against his own specific will and actually allows you to exit your body and roam the cosmos.

That prayer is not heard by Almighty God and the answer you get comes right out of the mouth of Satan

I know about Out of Body event, by personal experience and it led me down a terrible path of utter misery and separation from God.

I experience the buzzing noise and hypnogogic sleep state and forced myself out of my body to my eternal regret.

Go on persist in this evil practice and you might become oppressed or even possessed by demons like I was.

You are only permitted by God to leave your mortal body at death, not during while living as mortal being on planet earth.

If you do this by leaving your mortal body to be it could become inhabited by demons, while you are separated from your body you will become unhinged and might end up in a psychiatric hospital

The Bible says "There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof in destruction.

Be warned stay away from this demonic practice and save your soul and sanity

Be warned stop promoting this demonically driven practice

I use the term occult in its professional sense. Occult means hidden, or generally out of sight, obscured, as yet not fully manifest. The term is often used in medicine and psychiatry to indicate the presence of something unseen or yet to manifest. http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/occult   

It is true that there are definite risks to one's mental wellbeing and life potential in meddling with the occult arts, which are the generally hidden arts of the soul. And the risk is particularly present where drugs are involved, and where there is little focus on the traditional virtues, and little effort in character development.

That is why I stress right personal conditioning through cultivation of virtues, the greatest of which is love. And developing a good and strong character, valuing the freewill of others and accepting one's own individual responsibility, and putting one's physical life duties and responsibilities ahead of seeking occult knowledge. And of course, steering clear of illicit drugs and irresponsible use of prescribed drugs. Occult knowledge and skill can result as a by-product of right prayer, right relationships and wholesome living.

Several of the New Testament Disciples experienced out-of-body excursions to higher planes, out-of-body lessons and revelations, and heightened vision. Many of the Old Testament prophets did too. There are many such accounts in the bible, there for the reading. And they resulted from prayer, faith in God, and right living. Read the histories of the Saints and see that many of them too had such experiences. But again, it comes through good, charitable and wholesome living, together with development of soul through love, prayer and faith.

Occult skill is like the disks coming into their right place in a safe's combination lock. When the recesses in the disks line up, then the bar drops in and the lock may turn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwJhgNEeKvs 
The personality mechanism is like that. When the mental, emotional and physical bodies (thinking and conduct) align with the true conscience, which is the highest sense within our self of what is good and right to do, and that part to which God speaks. And also align with heart, which is that part of us through which God's power moves. Then there is a direct flow-through from the inner upper peak of our soul or oversoul, down and through all our bodies/layers or component parts of our soul and personality mechanism. When our breath and attention aligns with that flow-through, and coordinates it in the right way, then we are capable of the occult or generally unknown abilities of soul.

Live a good life, be charitable with your resources and energies, value truth and honesty, and value other people's freewill and your own individual responsibility, be considerate and helpful, kind, strong, and brave when you need to be. Become familiar with your conscience, and live it out through your being, and your mistakes in life will be minimal. Let your occult knowledge develop naturally, on top of, or secondary to, those more important things in life. And if there be room in your life's purpose, then like the prophets, disciples and saints of olden times, you will safely experience and learn about the hidden abilities of soul.


However, if you dabble in drugs, then do not go near the occult. If you do you will likely go mad. You will develop irrational delusions and projections.

If you have a mental illness or mental-emotional fragility, then do not pursue occult knowledge. Doing so will almost certainly cause you to decline and possibly unravel. Instead, keep yourself grounded with practical down-to-earth hobbies and interests. Concentrate on developing good relationships with sensible people. Study the traditional virtues, gently cultivate them and humbly practice them. And your mental and spiritual health will improve. 

1796 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2016 at 8:28pm:

I use the term occult in its professional sense. Occult means hidden, or generally out of sight, obscured, as yet not fully manifest. The term is often used in medicine and psychiatry to indicate the presence of something unseen or yet to manifest. http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/occult    It is true that there are definite risks to one's mental wellbeing and life potential in meddling with the occult arts, which are the generally hidden arts of the soul. And the risk is particularly present where drugs are involved, and where there is little focus on the traditional virtues, and little effort in character development. That is why I stress right personal conditioning through cultivation of virtues, the greatest of which is love. And developing a good and strong character, valuing the freewill of others and accepting one's own individual responsibility, and putting one's physical life duties and responsibilities ahead of seeking occult knowledge. And of course, steering clear of illicit drugs and irresponsible use of prescribed drugs. Occult knowledge and skill can result as a by-product of right prayer, right relationships and wholesome living. Several of the New Testament Disciples experienced out-of-body excursions to higher planes, out-of-body lessons and revelations, and heightened vision. Many of the Old Testament prophets did too. There are many such accounts in the bible, there for the reading. And they resulted from prayer, faith in God, and right living. Read the histories of the Saints and see that many of them too had such experiences. But again, it comes through good, charitable and wholesome living, together with development of soul through love, prayer and faith. Occult skill is like the disks coming into their right place in a safe's combination lock. When the recesses in the disks line up, then the bar drops in and the lock may turn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwJhgNEeKvs  The personality mechanism is like that. When the mental, emotional and physical bodies (thinking and conduct) align with the true conscience, which is the highest sense within our self of what is good and right to do, and that part to which God speaks. And also align with heart, which is that part of us through which God's power moves. Then there is a direct flow-through from the inner upper peak of our soul or oversoul, down and through all our bodies/layers or component parts of our soul and personality mechanism. When our breath and attention aligns with that flow-through, and coordinates it in the right way, then we are capable of the occult or generally unknown abilities of soul. Live a good life, be charitable with your resources and energies, value truth and honesty, and value other people's freewill and your own individual responsibility, be considerate and helpful, kind, strong, and brave when you need to be. Become familiar with your conscience, and live it out through your being, and your mistakes in life will be minimal. Let your occult knowledge develop naturally, on top of, or secondary to, those more important things in life. And if there be room in your life's purpose, then like the prophets, disciples and saints of olden times, you will safely experience and learn about the hidden abilities of soul. However, if you dabble in drugs, then do not go near the occult. If you do you will likely go mad. You will develop irrational delusions and projections. If you have a mental illness or mental-emotional fragility, then do not pursue occult knowledge. Doing so will almost certainly cause you to decline and possibly unravel. Instead, keep yourself grounded with practical down-to-earth hobbies and interests. Concentrate on developing good relationships with sensible people. Study the traditional virtues, gently cultivate them and humbly practice them. And your mental and spiritual health will improve.

You cannot reach up and touch the face of God by good works or good intentions.

Who exactly are these several New Testament Disciples that experienced out of body excursions?.

Only one did my friend and that was the Apostle Paul, who was stoned to death and taken into the third heaven. When the Jews of the time stoned a person they did not stop until they were absolutely positive the victim was dead.

Paul was dead, so he had a God approved legitimate reason for his out of body excursion. However, God sent him back to his mortal body, which was miraculously revived by the will of God so that Paul could complete his mission on earth

Paul was a very special case, not an average man in the street, who if persist in cultivating this demonic practice and encourages others to follow his/her example, will reap the eternal consequences for disobeying the direct will of God.

You keep on keeping on with nice sounding posts, yet you cannot get it into your rather thick skull that the out of body experience is an act  encouraged exclusively and perpetuated by the dark and evil side.

Again I warn you and I repeat this warning, if you persist in this demonic driven act of defiance of Gods will, you will reap the most terrible consequences, more awful than you have the ability to comprehend.

Why you bring up drugs into the topic baffles me?

Be wise, stop this evil nonsense now and live

Or carry on with it and die

With due respect old man, your wires are crossed. Paul was not stoned to death. Stephen was stoned, and Paul who was then called Saul, witnessed his stoning. It is in the book of Acts. Paul’s kind of death is not generally known for certain, but tradition and historians suspect he was beheaded under Nero during the mid 60’s. And Paul spoke not of himself going to the third heaven but of another man in Christ, whom he did not name, who was raised to the third heaven and gained teachings to keep to himself. It is in Paul’s second letter to the Corinthians, where he talks about controlling his image in the eyes of others. But those things are beside the point anyway. 

Paul mentions many things that suggest occult knowledge of the human condition, including our earthly and celestial bodies and elemental spirits. Paul’s description of marriage between man and woman and its representation of the relationship between Christ and Church is occult. As are many of the observations of the Preacher in Ecclesiastes, and as are the other books where mostly one has to have similar or related knowledge to recognise what they have written about, such as Elijah going by whirlwind up to heaven, Isaiah’s vision of heaven, the spirit travels of Ezekiel and his sights of wheels within wheels, Jacob’s ladder between heaven and earth, Daniel’s visions, are occult and out-of-body related. Jesus, Peter, James and John transformed so they could see and commune with Moses and Elijah. The revelations of John of Patmos, and visions of heaven revealed to him while in the spirit, and many of the gnostic segments of John, and 1 & 2 John, are occult or above the physical or out-of-body related. Most if not all of the parables have multiple levels of meaning, including occult levels which if one is taken up in spirit or attune beyond the physical plane then their occult meaning is seen.

If Alan wishes to try to discourage out-of-body investigations, that is fine. If anyone is doubtful or fearful of the occult, they should stay away from it. That is best. Occult knowledge is not necessary to be a good person, no more than scientific knowledge is. It can complement though. And I do say there are risks to occult study, as there are risks with everything. Look at any collection of mystics/occultists/out-of-body/spiritualist types and you will see plenty of nutcases amongst them. Go in any psych unit and you will meet plenty of people too deranged to function in the outside world but quite convinced they possess mystic/occult knowledge. Most are drug users too.

It is a matter of rightly mitigating the risks, understanding the laws of life, noting the landmarks and following the rules and guidelines, and developing sound judgement and right motive.
   
In the higher levels of the astral planes, well above the emotional planes, in what we might term the higher mental planes, exist schools of occult science, and the bell of every worthy school sounds out this message: Virtue before knowledge, purity before ability.

The message is engraved on the bell, written above the bell, so every student knows, and is reminded when it rings.

1796 wrote on Mar 19^th, 2016 at 6:54am:

With due respect old man, your wires are crossed. Paul was not stoned to death. Stephen was stoned, and Paul who was then called Saul, witnessed his stoning. It is in the book of Acts. Paul’s kind of death is not generally known for certain, but tradition and historians suspect he was beheaded under Nero during the mid 60’s. And Paul spoke not of himself going to the third heaven but of another man in Christ, whom he did not name, who was raised to the third heaven and gained teachings to keep to himself. It is in Paul’s second letter to the Corinthians, where he talks about controlling his image in the eyes of others. But those things are beside the point anyway.  Paul mentions many things that suggest occult knowledge of the human condition, including our earthly and celestial bodies and elemental spirits. Paul’s description of marriage between man and woman and its representation of the relationship between Christ and Church is occult. As are many of the observations of the Preacher in Ecclesiastes, and as are the other books where mostly one has to have similar or related knowledge to recognise what they have written about, such as Elijah going by whirlwind up to heaven, Isaiah’s vision of heaven, the spirit travels of Ezekiel and his sights of wheels within wheels, Jacob’s ladder between heaven and earth, Daniel’s visions, are occult and out-of-body related. Jesus, Peter, James and John transformed so they could see and commune with Moses and Elijah. The revelations of John of Patmos, and visions of heaven revealed to him while in the spirit, and many of the gnostic segments of John, and 1 & 2 John, are occult or above the physical or out-of-body related. Most if not all of the parables have multiple levels of meaning, including occult levels which if one is taken up in spirit or attune beyond the physical plane then their occult meaning is seen. If Alan wishes to try to discourage out-of-body investigations, that is fine. If anyone is doubtful or fearful of the occult, they should stay away from it. That is best. Occult knowledge is not necessary to be a good person, no more than scientific knowledge is. It can complement though. And I do say there are risks to occult study, as there are risks with everything. Look at any collection of mystics/occultists/out-of-body/spiritualist types and you will see plenty of nutcases amongst them. Go in any psych unit and you will meet plenty of people too deranged to function in the outside world but quite convinced they possess mystic/occult knowledge. Most are drug users too. It is a matter of rightly mitigating the risks, understanding the laws of life, noting the landmarks and following the rules and guidelines, and developing sound judgement and right motive.     In the higher levels of the astral planes, well above the emotional planes, in what we might term the higher mental planes, exist schools of occult science, and the bell of every worthy school sounds out this message: Virtue before knowledge, purity before ability. The message is engraved on the bell, written above the bell, so every student knows, and is reminded when it rings.

Don't disrespect me and call me  "Old Man"

I have been reading the bible for longer than you have been alive and would not make the silly mistake you seem to think I have

Yes, Stephen was stoned, to death,  but there is no account of him having an out of body experience only a him having a vision of Jesus standing at the right hand of God while he was in the process of dying due to the brutality of this barbaric method of execution.

Paul was also stoned and his executioners, would not have stopped stoning him until they were absolutely positive he was dead, get it dead!!

It was from this terrible event in his life, that his soul left his body (Out of body event) and went to the third heaven, where he 'saw unspeakable things" or unexplainable things.

You say it is about mitigating the risks of attempting an out of body experience, that to me is like saying you will just use a little less cyanide in your next drink, both will kill you.

And lead to eternal separation from the love and light of Almighty God

Yet you refuse to listen  to someone who really knows what will happen to you if you persist on this path of self distruction and could lead to the death of your soul and eternal separation from the love and light of Almighty God

The Out of Body  Experience phenomenon is a cultic practice right out of the dark side where Satan rules

Here is more?


What is an out of body experience?

An out of body experience, also known as astral projection, is supposed to be the phenomenon when a person's consciousness is detached from the physical body and travels or exists outside of the body. During these experiences, the person is aware of his surroundings and is often aware of what is being said around him.

Are Out of Body Experiences real?

There are a lot of reports from people who claim to have had various out of body experiences. The problem is testing them. Some people claim to have died during surgery, in emergency rooms, etc., who were aware of conversations going on in separate rooms while they were being worked on by doctors.

What about 2 Cor. 12:1-4?

"Boasting is necessary though it is not profitable; but I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord.  2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know,

God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven.  3 And I know how such a man--whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows--4 was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak," (2 Cor. 12:1-4).

This Scripture is often used to support out of body experiences, but it cannot be properly used this way. In Jewish cosmology, there are three heavens. The first heaven deals with the atmospheric region (Deuteronomy 11:17, 28:12, Judges 5:4, Acts 14:17). The second heaven deals with the region of outer space (Psalm 19:4, 6, Jeremiah 8:2, Isaiah 13:10). The third heaven is God's dwelling place (1 Kings 8:30, Psalm 2:4, Matthew 5:16).

So, when Paul says that he knew someone who was caught up to the third heaven, he was speaking about entering into the dwelling place of God.

What is important is that it occurred either in the body or out of the body of which he did not know. In this occurrence Paul speaks about, which is probably about himself, might very well be in reference to the instance when he was stoned and left for dead.

"But Jews came from Antioch and Iconium, and having won over the crowds, they stoned Paul and dragged him out of the city, supposing him to be dead," (Acts 14:19).

Are out of body experiences harmful?

The Bible tells us that we are to avoid any occult practices. Astral projection is just such an event. Essentially, it amounts to what the Bible calls divination and sorcery and is to be avoided.

In addition, it may very well open up individuals to demonic oppression or possession since it is in violation of the Scriptures and is dabbling in the spiritual realm in a manner not approved by Scripture.

My own preference is to avoid "travels" to the other side, so to speak.  I take the advice of Emanuel Swedenborg, probably one of the most well traveled of them all, who strongly warned others not to attempt to go where he did because of the many snares and deceptions that he faced and that are prevalent in the afterlife.

I respect the position of cb, and the preconditions he identifies as important, before taking such steps.  Fact is, most of us don't have the strength of character and purity of motives necessary to avoid the pitfalls.  I know I don't. 

Although I attended one of Bruce's workshops and participated in the exercises, I didn't feel comfortable doing it and I personally don't think he should encourage others to do so.  Not to disparage his motives, just to say that it's not without its dangers given the wide diversity of the attendees and the law of unintended consequences.

R

rondele wrote on Mar 19^th, 2016 at 11:29am:

My own preference is to avoid "travels" to the other side, so to speak.  I take the advice of Emanuel Swedenborg, probably one of the most well traveled of them all, who strongly warned others not to attempt to go where he did because of the many snares and deceptions that he faced and that are prevalent in the afterlife. I respect the position of cb, and the preconditions he identifies as important, before taking such steps.  Fact is, most of us don't have the strength of character and purity of motives necessary to avoid the pitfalls.  I know I don't.  Although I attended one of Bruce's workshops and participated in the exercises, I didn't feel comfortable doing it and I personally don't think he should encourage others to do so.  Not to disparage his motives, just to say that it's not without its dangers given the wide diversity of the attendees and the law of unintended consequences. R

What Bruce is doing to gullible impressionable people is highly dangerous and he should stop it before more harm is done

With all respect to Emanuel Swedenborg who was no doubt a genius of the highest order. I simply cannot believe the stories of his out of body journeys. He said he saw a thriving civilization of people on the moon and other wild stories which came from his vivid imagination and not any real experience out there in the vastness of the cosmos.

Even the smartest of us all fabricate at times and, in my opinion, he was a master fibber.

Hi Alan-

Even RAM wrote about meeting an alien who looked like W.C. Fields, and said his mission was to collect jokes from Earth and take them back to his home planet which needed cheering up.

So I wonder, was RAM also a fibber or was it just an example of the rampant deception that ES warned about?  Regarding the moon story, maybe ES was himself a victim of clever deception?

R

Greetings to everyone.

   I have something new to add that could be related to my original topic that started this thread. In the Cosmic Disclosure discourse, they mention the Earth as being more honeycomb like rather than hollow or solid. The adventures that people make go down to around 40 miles beneath the surface and that's it.

   They mention how parts of the earth open up into tremendous caverns that have large lakes and ancient races have created a sphere of light energy to make an artificial atmosphere.

   I had a lucid dream last night that may have implications. I guess it was a dream within a dream. Here are my journal notes:


Quote:

Lucid Dream March 19, 2016    While I'm dreaming, I first woke up in the dream finding out that I was driving my car on the road and about to go off the road  into trees. I get control back and get back on the road. After getting to my destination I realize that I'm wearing my night pajama  and not dressed to go to work. I then went back in my car to go back home and get dressed when I discovered that I lost the key. I  got out and looked around but had no luck. When I went to go back to the car and looked inside of it, I found that the car had  disappeared. That's when I realized that I was having a lucid dream.    At first I went to sit down and meditate. After a minute I thought that wasn't a good idea because then I would leave the dream  environment and possibly wake up. So instead I decided to try flying. I had trouble willing myself in the air so then I tried jumping  to get going. My first two tries failed and then I saw some birds come around that noticed my attempts. I tried some more then I  started going up and staying there. I flew with the birds for a little while until they left. Then I went exploring on my own.    For brevity I'm now going to mention an interesting event at the end of my experience. There was a man that was being pursued in  the air by a couple of what looked like men in black agents flying in a small flying car. They when I didn't see the one they were  pursuing anymore I then flew over to question the agents. They told me he went into a hole in the ground but were afraid to follow  him. I asked why the person went down there and they told me it was to ask a question.    I told the two agents that I was going to follow him and they asked me what question I would ask when I went down there. I told  them I needed to think of one first so they said good buy and good luck. I headed to go down to the hole and started contemplating  what question or questions would be the best to ask. Unfortunately, that's when the lucid dream ended.

Ralph

rondele wrote on Mar 19^th, 2016 at 1:12pm:

Hi Alan- Even RAM wrote about meeting an alien who looked like W.C. Fields, and said his mission was to collect jokes from Earth and take them back to his home planet which needed cheering up. So I wonder, was RAM also a fibber or was it just an example of the rampant deception that ES warned about?  Regarding the moon story, maybe ES was himself a victim of clever deception? R

Who then is RAM?

Bob Monroe.  The author of Journeys Out of the Body and other books, and founder of The Monroe Institute in VA.  Bruce's protege.

R

Gullibe? That works both ways. Accept there is a ceiling to your growth, why, because you are not worhty and people do not like that shit because blah blah blah. I had my first out of body experiences when I was about 9 years old. No demons, just me and geometric shapes floating about, thinking this is a novelty and vivid yet at the same timwe, water under the bridge, I have and am going to keep doing this

wrote on Mar 19^th, 2016 at 6:44pm:

Gullibe? That works both ways. Accept there is a ceiling to your growth, why, because you are not worhty and people do not like that shit because blah blah blah. I had my first out of body experiences when I was about 9 years old. No demons, just me and geometric shapes floating about, thinking this is a novelty and vivid yet at the same timwe, water under the bridge, I have and am going to keep doing this

Hallucination, not an out of body event period!

Hehe, Alan, you were presented with ABSOLUTE truth, also you are entitled to have your SUBJECTIVE and RELATIVE opinion. PERIOD!

wrote on Mar 20^th, 2016 at 3:47am:

Hehe, Alan, you were presented with ABSOLUTE truth, also you are entitled to have your SUBJECTIVE and RELATIVE opinion. PERIOD!

You are absolutely not the source of absolute truth and you have never had an out of body experience period.

Absolute truth only exists in the Divine Mind of God!

Just having a laugh, do no get your periods in a twist. There is nothing unusual about being out of body.

wrote on Mar 21^st, 2016 at 1:49pm:

Just having a laugh, do no get your periods in a twist. There is nothing unusual about being out of body.

Yes, there is, your soul belongs firmly within your body until the time of your death and then and only then will you have a true "Out of Body Experience. 

The night you flat lined, left your body and went into other dimensions of existence, that was not a true out of body experience?

wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 12:29pm:

The night you flat lined, left your body and went into other dimensions of existence, that was not a true out of body experience?

Yes it was because I was near death, not having fun not wrongly using it to invade the privacy of others.

You are really irritating me, with your lies about being some sort of "Out of Body" guru!

The irritation stems from your differing views of out of body experiences.

The straw man argument you put up is the actual lie. Calm down, and remember to never bear false witness against your neighbour just because you are irritated. Also, you shall not try to steal nor covet the tongue of others.

wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 3:33am:

The irritation stems from your differing views of out of body experiences. The straw man argument you put up is the actual lie. Calm down, and remember to never bear false witness against your neighbour just because you are irritated. Also, you shall not try to steal nor covet the tongue of others.

So now you have elevated yourself to the level of a "Holy  man, able to discern between right from wrong/

It is Easter, give the hammer and nails a rest.

wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 11:00pm:

It is Easter, give the hammer and nails a rest.

Why??????????????????

Easter is in memory of the most important event in all of human history. The salvation of the entire human species, from self-inflicted destruction in fact.

Easter my friend Easter is all about the hammer and nails that the Lord Jesus endured, although he was innocent of any sin against man or God, he took in onto himself onto his own body and soul to suffer and die, in our stead.

We all stand guilty before a righteous, perfect and holy living Almighty God

It is not about cute little easter chocolate man-made eggs hidden in the garden for little children to search for and hopefully find. 

Jesus said I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE

Jesus said I AM THE WAY (HE DID NOT SAY I WILL SHOW YOU THE WAY)

Jesus said I AM THE LIFE (HE DID NOT SAY I WILL SHOW YOU THE LIFE)

jJesus said I AM THE TRUTH (HE DID NOT SAY I WILL SHOW YOU TRUTH) 

Jesus said I AM THE LIGHT (JESUS DID NOT SAY I WILL SHOW YOU THE LIGHT)

wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 3:33am:

The irritation stems from your differing views of out of body experiences. The straw man argument you put up is the actual lie. Calm down, and remember to never bear false witness against your neighbour just because you are irritated. Also, you shall not try to steal nor covet the tongue of others.

You must insert quotes into your posts so that a person can know as to whom it is directed.

Now you have put on a philosopher's hat using terms like the "Staw-Man" deception. Are you now Plato so that you can duck and dive with this sort of nonsense?

I do not have different views about the OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCES

I Only two have just two (2) views on the whole sad subject.

1)That to practice it consciously by leaving your physical body is wrong and evil.
2) That in death it is the way for your soul to leave your mortal body on its journey into the afterlife.

I rest my case!

Alan, I am clearly not the planet Pluto wearing a straw hat, learn to read! Why do you consider practising conscious OOBE to be absolutely wrong and evil?

wrote on Mar 24^th, 2016 at 4:08am:

Alan, I am clearly not the planet Pluto wearing a straw hat, learn to read! Why do you consider practising conscious OOBE to be absolutely wrong and evil?

Plato not Pluto!  ::)  ::)

Unlike you, I know what I am talking about!

I have done conscious OOBE and as a consequence suffered many years of pain horror and misery.

Demons do not have physical bodies, so while you are having fun exploring the vast universe, one might take over your empty vacant mind and torment you, just like the one that oppressed me for all those many years.

Yet you contue to ingore my advice to you, which will at your own peril and persist in plotting out a path leading to the destruction of your soul and refuse to take advice.

This issue seems like a huge joke to you, but you might end up being the main clown in hell, dancing, forever, to the devils trill?

When you stand before God after your death, he will bring this to your attension and demand an explanation, from you as to exactly why you ignored my advice!

i give up this is my last post to you on this subject!

Alan. You appear to be going through a period of mild mania.

Have a look at how many times your name appears on the first two pages of the forum board, in both columns - the Started By column and the Last Post column. They are nearly all your name. Your name appears about 20 times on each of the first and second pages. About 40 times all up. Compare that to other people's names. You are overriding the board. 

You are starting numerous threads on different initial subjects but then arguing much the same issue on any thread, and doing so on other people's threads too, thus causing the threads to have their subject matters messed up.

Also you are getting overly irritated at other people's opinions that differ to your own. You even say so, as you said Ambivalence is irritating you. Yet he is not saying anywhere near as much as you are saying, and is not saying it as prolifically and repeatedly as you are either.

Stop and consider your output. I expect you have good self-management strategies for these times. Now may be a time to exercise them. Ground your self. Steer between the extremes.   

Alan, your experience is your experience, which is not to say everyone have or will experience what you have. How many demons are personal demons masquerading as proper demons? The answer is plain and simple, I do not know, but the question is valid. A personal demon might very well be one's own worst enemy. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool (Richard P. Feynman).

Since you give up on the subject to me, fare well in body and out of body after your passing. Though I have plenty of my own, thanks for your advice, opinions and assumptions.

https://goo.gl/FPjq9b

wrote on Mar 24^th, 2016 at 6:42am:

Alan, your experience is your experience, which is not to say everyone have or will experience what you have. How many demons are personal demons masquerading as proper demons? The answer is plain and simple, I do not know, but the question is valid. A personal demon might very well be one's own worst enemy. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool (Richard P. Feynman). Since you give up on the subject to me, fare well in body and out of body after your passing. Though I have plenty of my own, thanks for your advice, opinions and assumptions. https://goo.gl/FPjq9b

Now you are trying to impress me by quoting from that great physicist Ricard Feynman.

Can you explain the Feynman diagrams to me or his understanding of quantum mechanics ("No one understands quantum mechanics" is just one of his many quotes).

Are you aware that he solved the mystery of the space shuttle Challenger disaster, namely that the O rings had become frozen, due to the very abnormal cold weather that day in Florida.

I watched the Challenger Disaster in horror from all the way over here where I reside South Africa!

Or the fact that he worked on the Manhattan project that led to the creation of the first two atomic bombs "Little Boy" and "Fat Man" "Little Boy" was at a uranium isotope bomb and "Fat Man" a smaller but just as powerful plutonium Bomb? etc.

Alan, I was not aware of this, but it is a great quote. “The highest forms of understanding we can achieve are laughter and human compassion.”

wrote on Mar 24^th, 2016 at 2:10pm:

Alan, I was not aware of this, but it is a great quote. “The highest forms of understanding we can achieve are laughter and human compassion.”

What about wisdom and love?

Alan,

“Physics isn't the most important thing. Love is.” - Feynman

“A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination.” - Nelson Mandela

“Whatever you do in life, surround yourself with smart people who'll argue with you.” - John Wooden

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

wrote on Mar 24^th, 2016 at 3:00pm:

Alan, “Physics isn't the most important thing. Love is.” - Feynman “A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination.” - Nelson Mandela “Whatever you do in life, surround yourself with smart people who'll argue with you.” - John Wooden "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein “By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

I did say "what about wisdom and love"?

Feynman had a deep profound love for his very sick dying wife, which he could only visit on rare occasions, due to his secret work at Los Alamos project.

He was however, a very charismatic man, if you compare him to the other dry scientists of the day such as the very- few- word man, Paul Dirac a British scientist (Who was Richards hero until he met him and try to engage in conversation)

Dirac first proposed the existence of anti-matter, which was later proved to be correct in an atom smasher.

This enigma of the matter/antimatter destruction should have occurred in our early universe but did not, according to the best science of the day, remains even one at this contemporary time, as one of the prime puzzles of the cosmos as to why it was created in the manner it was, instead of how science said it should have?

At the moment of the big bang, with equal amounts of matter and anti-matter existing, that should have come in contact and annihilated each other, leaving us in a vast dead gamma ray universe, rather than the beautiful one we now exist in. (I see the hand of God in this?)

This strange a- synchronism of the universe, with matter dominating, and the total absence of natural antimatter, was a real enigma, until Dirac came up with his idea that somewhere, somehow antimatter must exist.

------------------------------------------------------

Dirac was once asked by a news paper journalist, if he went to the movies? to which he replied "Yes"

When asked when? he said "In 1925 and 1940"?  ;D

Dirac quoted

"God used beautiful mathematics to create the universe"


Quotes from Einstein

I am not sure, but will check Albert Einstein (from my memory)

quoted=

"Little children ask the most intelligent/wisest questions"

"If you can explain your theory to your aged granny, then everyone else would also understand it"

It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. Albert Einstein

Alan, thanks for the information and chat. I am not going to steer this particular thread more off topic and will continue on your new OOBE thread.

wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 3:33am:

The irritation stems from your differing views of out of body experiences. The straw man argument you put up is the actual lie. Calm down, and remember to never bear false witness against your neighbour just because you are irritated. Also, you shall not try to steal nor covet the tongue of others.

Now you put on the hat of a philosopher, which be your very wrong use of the Staw Man argument shows me you know absolutely nothing philosophical.

I was making a STATEMENT that is all, how you dug up the nonsense of a Staw Man argument beats me because it has nothing to do with my post.

I simply said use Jesus, not Yahshua, now please tell me how you invented a straw man argument out of a single statement???

Actually, go to a philosophical forum and learn before posting such nonsense.

I have belonged to numerous philosophical forums and have both researched and learned about most things related to philosophy and philosophical history.

Alan, you wrote "You are really irritating me, with your lies about being some sort of "Out of Body" guru!" and I called that a straw man argument. Has nothing to do with Jesus/Yahshua. You can nullify your irritation and let it go, feed the fire in your belly or otherwise, but my part of this particular discussion ends right here.

wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 10:10pm:

Alan, you wrote "You are really irritating me, with your lies about being some sort of "Out of Body" guru!" and I called that a straw man argument. Has nothing to do with Jesus/Yahshua. You can nullify your irritation and let it go, feed the fire in your belly or otherwise, but my part of this particular discussion ends right here.

Give reference to that supposed comment of mine, because I never said that to you.

And even if I did you could not say it was a "Straw Man" Argument!

I never said that and that is also not a 'Staw Man argument"

1796 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2016 at 6:41am:

Alan. You appear to be going through a period of mild mania. Have a look at how many times your name appears on the first two pages of the forum board, in both columns - the Started By column and the Last Post column. They are nearly all your name. Your name appears about 20 times on each of the first and second pages. About 40 times all up. Compare that to other people's names. You are overriding the board.  You are starting numerous threads on different initial subjects but then arguing much the same issue on any thread, and doing so on other people's threads too, thus causing the threads to have their subject matters messed up. Also you are getting overly irritated at other people's opinions that differ to your own. You even say so, as you said Ambivalence is irritating you. Yet he is not saying anywhere near as much as you are saying, and is not saying it as prolifically and repeatedly as you are either. Stop and consider your output. I expect you have good self-management strategies for these times. Now may be a time to exercise them. Ground your self. Steer between the extremes.

Stop trying to diagnose me from thousands oF miles away. What do you mean be "Self-Management Strategies I suppose you mean medication.

I am not manic and have not had a manic spell for over ten years, what you see is just a reflection of my character.

For example,  a manic person might think he is Almighty God or the Ach Angel Michael or is all-knowing and infinite etc.

I had some of these traits long ago during an extreme hyper- maniac psychotic state.

My worst mistake on this forum was to reveal my bipolar illness to you people, who I thought a decent people would not come back and haunt me with issues of my past illness and if I say something controversial, then, of course, the forum psychiatrists diagnose me as being manic or more kindly slightly manic which is rubbish.

Yes? I have started numerous threads and made many posts on threads other than mine since I returned to the forum a few weeks ago.

The forum was almost completely dead when I came back and you all should acknowledge that my mild mania has breathed new life into this previously dying forum?

If I am offending the delicate sensitivities of the forum members, just say the world and I will immediately unsubscribe and go elsewhere!!

Blessings

Alan

No don't go Alan, not if you don't want to. I like you here.

And I don't get offended.

I wrote that post a few weeks ago when you were starting threads and putting posts all over the place. 

Your revealing your bipolar on the forum is of no consequence to me.    

Alan McDougall wrote on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 1:18am:

... What do you mean be "Self-Management Strategies I suppose you mean medication. ... Blessings Alan

No Alan, I was not referring to medication. I was referring to tactical methods of self-managing a condition. In recent years some psych facilities have been taking up self-management strategies to teach to their patients. Its a slow moving development though.    

Walking is good.

So is music, of the right sort, of course.

Alan, do you have someone, a strong and sensible friend or relative, that you can rely on to assist you and help you stay disciplined in your self-management? and who can and will stand up to you if required?


crossbow

There have been some good developments in psych. Only a few though compared to the number of mistakes and errors. Its all part of our gradual learning curve. Its early days yet. 

Look after the heart and preserve the conscience, and to a large extent the mind will look after itself.

Alan McDougall wrote on Apr 17^th, 2016 at 6:47am:

Do you suffer from a mental disorder??

No.

I am well familiar with all mental disorders and personality maladjustments, their treatments, and self-management strategies.   

Alan, I believe that 1796 is trying to be helpful towards you. When I saw your very large number of posts I got  an impression similar to his.

If it is okay for you to try to play the role of our spiritual savor, perhaps it is okay for 1796 to make some suggestions relating to your mental health.