This forum is based on the delusions and lies of Bruce Moen
You will never see God or Heaven if you follow his teaching
I was among the deceived
I was lost
But  now I am found
I was dead
But NOW I LIVE
Jesus is the way, not Bruce Moen
God is light
God is Love
However we will account for every word that proceeded out off our mounts after death before Almighty God
We are accountable to a Holy and Righteous God for what we do or do not do in life
The  book of myracles is Satanic
The BOOK CONVERSATION WITH GOD IS DIRECTLY FROM SATAN
HITLER IS NOT IN HEAVEN HE IS IN HELL WHERE HE BELONGS
"THIS MESSAGE WILL BE REMOVED SO THOSE WHO GET A CHANCE TO READ IT BEFORE IT IS REMOVED
" IT IS FOR YOU TO OBEY OR REJECT"
I ASK YOUR FORGIVENESS IF MY LIES HAVE AFFECTED YOU NEGATIVELY
GOODBY FOREVER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uod1tvKSTsg
[url][/url]

seagull says:

"I'm very sorry you are feeling so ill and I'm not clear on the reason for such a panicked note."

Actually there is nothing in Alan's post that indicates he is feeling ill nor panicked.  I do agree that ACIM and its numerous spin-offs (i.e. Conversations; Disappearance of the Universe) are bogus at best and malevolent at worst.

I don't know if what Bruce teaches is credible or not.  I don't believe, however, that he is deliberately deceiving people.  Can he himself be deceived?  Of course, just like the rest of us.  And that, I think, is Alan's point although not artfully communicated.

R

Alan:

You can be a bit extreme at times. It seems to me that you never spoke in a way that closely matches what Bruce says, so I don't know how you can say you were deceived by him.

recoverer wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 1:02pm:

Alan: You can be a bit extreme at times. It seems to me that you never spoke in a way that closely matches what Bruce says, so I don't know how you can say you were deceived by him.

[color=#ff0000]The truth is the truth
I was never deceived by Bruce Moen I always knew he was lying and inventing his nonsense!!
You chose?
Believe Jesus Christ?
or

Choose Bruce Moen who is disillusion, just I like I was.
For me it is easy because Jesus
IS THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE
IS THE WAY TO GOD
IS LIFE
IS LIGHT
IS GOODNESS

Regarding Roger's comments about ACIM and CWG, here is how Bruce's viewpoints seem to differ.

Walsch wrote that pretty much everything is okay no matter how bad it seems, because God loves everything equally.

ACIM states that you don't have to worry about the suffering you see because it is only an illusion.

Bruce speaks of spirit helpers who experience great sorrow when souls that found a way out of a lower realm, due to some of their energetics, are pulled back into a lower realm.

Rondele,

I happen to recognize this type of communication. The all caps, etc. etc. It is a symptom of illness. And, indeed, most people recognize all caps in red as an emotional cue.

I tried to remove the post I originally made, which you did not quote in full, because I changed my mind about responding first and I also decided I didn't want to be involved in the obvious discussion that would follow. Apparently I did not accomplish that quickly enough.

However, now that you have responded I will say that I still stand by my comments. I had also stated that I found no reason for anyone to believe that Bruce Moen insists anywhere that his methods are for everyone. He does not do that.

I never said anyone could not be deceived. However, it is difficult to fool all the people all the time...

I don't believe it is a contest between Jesus and Bruce. Jesus is probably okay with Bruce even if he isn't correct about everything. Which of us is correct about everything? I won't say that I am.

I don't think Bruce is trying to mislead anyone or have followers.

Perhaps what Jesus knows is true in a way where one doesn't need to be forceful about what he says.

How are you feeling at this time? Do you feel peaceful and balanced?


Alan McDougall wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 1:35pm:

recoverer wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 1:02pm: Alan: You can be a bit extreme at times. It seems to me that you never spoke in a way that closely matches what Bruce says, so I don't know how you can say you were deceived by him. The truth is the truth I was never deceived by Bruce Moen I always knew he was lying and inventing his nonsense!! You chose? Believe Jesus Christ? or Choose Bruce Moen who is disillusion, just I like I was. For me it is easy because Jesus IS THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE IS THE WAY TO GOD IS LIFE IS LIGHT IS GOODNESS

seagull wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 2:50pm:

Rondele, I happen to recognize this type of communication. The all caps, etc. etc. It is a symptom of illness. And, indeed, most people recognize all caps in red as an emotional cue. I tried to remove the post I originally made, which you did not quote in full, because I changed my mind about responding first and I also decided I didn't want to be involved in the obvious discussion that would follow. Apparently I did not accomplish that quickly enough. However, now that you have responded I will say that I still stand by my comments. I had also stated that I found no reason for anyone to believe that Bruce Moen insists anywhere that his methods are for everyone. He does not do that. I never said anyone could not be deceived. However, it is difficult to fool all the people all the time...

Silly the red font was to get my point over load and clear I am not ill, I have been well for years now!

Of course like the rest of us we tell lies Research has shown that a person on average tells some 200 lies a day to others and in their mind

God ahead make Bruce Moen your god

recoverer wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 3:03pm:

I don't believe it is a contest between Jesus and Bruce. Jesus is probably okay with Bruce even if he isn't correct about everything. Which of us is correct about everything? I won't say that I am. I don't think Bruce is trying to mislead anyone or have followers. He might not think he is misleading people BUT HE IS How are you feeling at this time? Do you feel peaceful and balanced? Alan McDougall wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 1:35pm: recoverer wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 1:02pm: Alan: You can be a bit extreme at times. It seems to me that you never spoke in a way that closely matches what Bruce says, so I don't know how you can say you were deceived by him. The truth is the truth I was never deceived by Bruce Moen I always knew he was lying and inventing his nonsense!! You chose? Believe Jesus Christ? or Choose Bruce Moen who is disillusion, just I like I was. For me it is easy because Jesus IS THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE IS THE WAY TO GOD IS LIFE IS LIGHT IS GOODNESS [/color]

The hostility is also a symptom. It may not be your intention, but that is how it comes across. It's not going to interfere with my day, however, so no worries.

Alan:

This isn't my forum so I can't say what can or can't be done. That said, I believe everybody has a right to their opinion. But perhaps out of courtesy you should focus your efforts to just one thread. To do so on as many threads as you have, that's forceful.

People are likely to conclude that you are being zealous (I don't mean jealous) and not take you seriously.

Alan:

In my church, there is something called a "conversion experience" where someone who feels they are lost and has the burden of sin comes to Jesus to find forgiveness and peace. Sometimes one loses the way and feels they have been deceived by the evil one or simply rebelled and wanted to live in sin. They can also find a 180 degree turn in their life.

I am curious to know what experience in your life has brought you to this point of seeing this all as deception, should you care to share.

...because...Engelbert is kinda cool... ;)

seagull wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 3:28pm:

The hostility is also a symptom. It may not be your intention, but that is how it comes across. It's not going to interfere with my day, however, so no worries.

Are you my doctor?

I am not ill, I have never been more lucid in my life.

doodad wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 6:54pm:

Alan: In my church, there is something called a "conversion experience" where someone who feels they are lost and has the burden of sin comes to Jesus to find forgiveness and peace. Sometimes one loses the way and feels they have been deceived by the evil one or simply rebelled and wanted to live in sin. They can also find a 180 degree turn in their life. I am curious to know what experience in your life has brought you to this point of seeing this all as deception, should you care to share.

It was God who changed me, I was totally committed to my beliefs, indeed as a youth I was an atheist.
You are correct I had an epiphany, it was brought to my attention, that I could be loose with the truth.

As a born again Christian, who I assume you are , no liar will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, especially lying by making money out of books seminars.
Before one does such a thing, the must make absolutely positive that every word is true.
While I have no righteousness of my own , I have never published any of my writing or tried to make money from my experiences

Because I know that there was untruth in them

If anyone reads this post, tell me you never lie or exaggerate or fib those are simply lies?

Maybe Bruce should answer this question becuase as far as I know the only person that NEVER LIED was Jesus

I have lied, I am sorry and I ask forgive if my lies have led to deception.

The devil really exists, his main weapon is to get you to believe that he does not exist

Alan

Alan McDougall wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:40am:

seagull wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 3:28pm: The hostility is also a symptom. It may not be your intention, but that is how it comes across. It's not going to interfere with my day, however, so no worries. Are you my doctor? I am not ill, I have never been more lucid in my life.

Actually, you are proving my point with every post. If you are not ill it is exceptionally arrogant of you to trash Bruce Moen's forum in this manner. You have never practiced any of his meditation methods and you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

seagull wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 3:28pm:

The hostility is also a symptom. It may not be your intention, but that is how it comes across. It's not going to interfere with my day, however, so no worries.

Simply put Bruce works writing are huge confabulation just like I was, but I at least did not write books or make money from my nonsense.

Bruce is an old man like me and is running out of time to ask the Almighty for forgiveness, which I have done and at last have perfect peace.

In august, 2011 my heart stopped at home and i was clinically died on the resuscitation table, and saw that I was going into a very dark place  maybe so cold so far from the Great God forever

We should know, that meditation opens your soul to some dark forces that will not leave until you die

This thing about a living person rescuing a  dead  is abject nonsense and dangerous at that,  of a mere mortal rescuing a dead person and showing towards the light is  absolute rubbish an example,

Evil mas murderer like Ted Bundy is rescued by another evil, but spiritual man and takes him where to the light

Ted Bundy is in hell
.
I asked God for forgiveness for my confabulations over years and Bruce still has time to do the same!!

Think man , think??

seagull wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 9:13am:

[quote author=6E696F7C737A7870781D0 link=1454050510/13#13 date=1454146831][quote author=5C4A4E485A43432F0 link=1454050510/9#9 date=1454095706]The hostility is also a symptom. It may not be your intention, but that is how it comes across. It's not going to interfere with my day, however, so no worries.

In august, 2011 my heart stopped at home and I was clinically died on the resuscitation table, and saw that i was going into a very dark place for so cold, so far from the Great God forever

We should know, that meditation opens your soul to some dark forces that will not leave until you die!

This thing about a living person rescuing a dead person is abject nonsense and dangerous at that. A mere mortal rescuing a dead person and showing towards the light is  absolute rubbish

Evil mas murderer like Ted Bundy is rescued by another evil, but spiritual man and takes him where to the light

Ted Bundy is in hell
.
Think man , think??

I asked God for forgiveness for my confabulations over years and Bruce still has time to do the same!!

Age has nothing to do with anything and your expectations are ridiculous at best.

Seagull, I recommend you read the posting guidelines.  Invectives and name calling not allowed.  Also your amateur diagnoses are highly inappropriate. 

Seems also that you should familiarize yourself with the concept of PUL.  Your various posts are sadly lacking in it.

R

Roger:

I can't say that I feel the same as you about Seagull's posts.

Alan himself, on this forum, has stated that he has bi-polar disorder. Therefore, it isn't completely off track for Seagull to wonder if Alan is having some difficulty.

As you know, there are some sources I don't agree with, but I don't go to the forums of those sources and speak against them, because I believe it would be disrespectful to do so. One might as well walk into a church and start speaking out loud about one's objections to the beliefs of such church. It would be quite understandable if some of those church members spoke up.

Pehaps people like Alan and Don haven't had success with retrievals, because they don't have the mindset to do retrievals. You can't expect to take part in retrieving stuck souls if you have the expectation of converting them to your religion.

I brought up Don because he is another person who has spoken down about people who claim to help with retrievals. Chances are that Alan and Don don't know what other people have done as well as they know.

What if some people actually do help with retrievals? If this is so, this is no small thing. Going by the information I've received, their are a lot of souls that need help. If Alan and Don suceed at diswaying some people away from trying to do retrievals, then Don and Alan do a diservice to the souls that otherwise could've been helped.

I've read of other people who have nothing to do with either Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen, and they help with retrievals. This being the case, perhaps there is some truth to the possibility that some people help with retrievals.



rondele wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 10:58am:

Seagull, I recommend you read the posting guidelines.  Invectives and name calling not allowed.  Also your amateur diagnoses are highly inappropriate.  Seems also that you should familiarize yourself with the concept of PUL.  Your various posts are sadly lacking in it. R

rondele wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 10:58am:

Seagull, I recommend you read the posting guidelines.  Invectives and name calling not allowed.  Also your amateur diagnoses are highly inappropriate.  Seems also that you should familiarize yourself with the concept of PUL.  Your various posts are sadly lacking in it.

Now, now, there's nothing the combined forces of turning cheeks can't handle. Also, not withholding coats and shirts will dress others for success.

recoverer wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 4:07pm:

Alan: This isn't my forum so I can't say what can or can't be done. That said, I believe everybody has a right to their opinion. But perhaps out of courtesy you should focus your efforts to just one thread. To do so on as many threads as you have, that's forceful. People are likely to conclude that you are being zealous (I don't mean jealous) and not take you seriously.

You absolutely right and I will tone down my rhetoric.

recoverer wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 3:03pm:

I don't believe it is a contest between Jesus and Bruce. Jesus is probably okay with Bruce even if he isn't correct about everything. Which of us is correct about everything? I won't say that I am. I don't think Bruce is trying to mislead anyone or have followers. Perhaps what Jesus knows is true in a way where one doesn't need to be forceful about what he says. How are you feeling at this time? Do you feel peaceful and balanced? Alan McDougall wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 1:35pm: recoverer wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 1:02pm: Alan: You can be a bit extreme at times. It seems to me that you never spoke in a way that closely matches what Bruce says, so I don't know how you can say you were deceived by him. The truth is the truth I was never deceived by Bruce Moen I always knew he was lying and inventing his nonsense!! You chose? Believe Jesus Christ? or Choose Bruce Moen who is disillusion, just I like I was. For me it is easy because Jesus IS THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE IS THE WAY TO GOD IS LIFE IS LIGHT IS GOODNESS

I am at more peace than I have ever been during my long life of 75 years living a sometimes, terrifying South Africa

wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 3:06pm:

rondele wrote on Feb 1st, 2016 at 10:58am: Seagull, I recommend you read the posting guidelines.  Invectives and name calling not allowed.  Also your amateur diagnoses are highly inappropriate.  Seems also that you should familiarize yourself with the concept of PUL.  Your various posts are sadly lacking in it. Now, now, there's nothing the combined forces of turning cheeks can't handle. Also, not withholding coats and shirts will dress others for success.

Respectfully, this post makes absolutely no sense at all?

Quote:

Respectfully, this post makes absolutely no sense at all?

Luke 6:29

wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2016 at 4:51pm:

Quote: Respectfully, this post makes absolutely no sense at all? Luke 6:29

I understand that scripture, but who is slapping what on the cheek in the thread?

Very truly I tell you, Alan, here a slap, there a slap, everywhere a slap. A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not both fall into a pit of planks and crush them into specks of sawdust? A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart. Good is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into 50 pounds of flour until it spread through all of it.

wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 11:58am:

Very truly I tell you, Alan, here a slap, there a slap, everywhere a slap. A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not both fall into a pit of planks and crush them into specks of sawdust? A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart. Good is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into 50 pounds of flour until it spread through all of it.

They do not seen to comprehend what I  am saying and exactly how serious it is.

Revelation clearly tells us that no liar will enter the Kingdom of Heaven

I am a liar and deserve the punishment for that sin, but the Lord Jesus Christ paid the price for my release from hell by his unspeakable death on the cross, while being absolutely innocent of the charges cooked ups, to seal his fate, (by lying reprobates) and has to declared me not guilty before Almighty God, even before the at the great day of judgement.

DID NOT SAY I WILL SHOW YOU THE WAY TO LIFE
HE SAID I AM LIFE
HIE DID NOT SAY I WILL SHOW YOU THE WAY
HE DID NOT SAY I WILL SHOW YOU THE WAY
HE SAID I AM THE WAY
HE DID NOT SAY I WILL REVEAL THE TRUTH TO YOU
HE SAID I AM THE TRUTH
HE DID NOT SAY I WILL SHOW YOU LIFE
HE SAID I AM LIFE

Only because I approached Jesus asked for forgiveness and asked him to receive me into himself (Not the other way and like the churches preach that we are to receive Jesus, he has no need of us) and it is up to us to ask him for forgiveness and and have him say unto you, come unto me and I will make you free

I WAS LOST
BUT NOW I AM FOUND
I WAS DEAD!
BUT NOW I LIVE

I MEAN THIS IN THE LITERAL AND ABSOLUTE SENSE   

Quote:

Only because I approached Jesus asked for forgiveness and asked him to receive me into himself (Not the other way and like the churches preach that we are to receive Jesus, he has no need of us) and it is up to us to ask him for forgiveness and and have him say unto you, come unto me and I will make you free

If you say/write it is up to us and you mean it is up to us, then it is up to us.

wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 2:05pm:

Quote: Only because I approached Jesus asked for forgiveness and asked him to receive me into himself (Not the other way and like the churches preach that we are to receive Jesus, he has no need of us) and it is up to us to ask him for forgiveness and and have him say unto you, come unto me and I will make you free If you say/write it is up to us and you mean it is up to us, then it is up to us.

Your posts are difficult to understand please rephrase this one to make it easier to comprehend

Ok, Alan. Do you have a purpose with your new posts? If so what is the purpose?

wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 4:22pm:

Ok, Alan. Do you have a purpose with your new posts? If so what is the purpose?

If you cant see the purposes of my posts then you are blind to reason


YES TO SAVE ALL OF YOU INDUCING BRUCE WHO HAS DECEIVED YOU ALL WITH HIS COLORFUL IMAGINATION, FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION!

seagull wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 5:31pm:

Age has nothing to do with anything and your expectations are ridiculous at best.

Age has an awful lot to do with it, Bruce is running out of time to ask God for forgiveness, for holding lectures and publishing books for money when the content of them is just a product of his mind, the content of which has mislead many many people with total absent of truth!

We must ban all books immediately. Such a thing should never be allowed to happen, that a person should be allowed to read what they like, believe what they like, because they might get it wrong -- according to you.

But that would be extreme. Wouldn't it? Guess we shouldn't ban all books....

I doubt that Bruce makes a lot of money from his books and workshops.


Alan McDougall wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 7:50pm:

seagull wrote on Jan 31st, 2016 at 5:31pm: Age has nothing to do with anything and your expectations are ridiculous at best. Age has an awful lot to do with it, Bruce is running out of time to ask God for forgiveness, for holding lectures and publishing books for money when the content of them is just a product of his mind, the content of which has mislead many many people with total absent of truth!

Alan, how do you know we all have been deceived by Bruce? How many of us have you saved from eternal damnation so far? Is mortal judgement, caps locking and RGB text effective means to that end?

Quote:

Is mortal judgement, caps locking and RGB text effective means to that end?

from my experience, fundamentalism is all about light and noise and not so much about facts, logic and reason.

Doodad, your description also counts for me and pretty much everyone I know at different times and in different amounts. I've dealt with caps lock in different areas since beginning of January, and today also where I chose to leave a meeting rather than feeding the negative spiral. And I know it is not a given that I make a similar decision at another fork in the road. Maybe I'll give in and boil like a kettle.

The noise is in the people, not in the scriptures. And emotionalism is in people generally, not just Christian people.

Many people who have struggled unsuccessfully for many years against personal issues such as alcohol, drugs, behavioural problems and personality maladjustments have found relief from their affliction through fundamentalist Christianity. Many fundamentalist churches have many such people who are examples of that. Personally I have known many habitual criminals, drug and alcohol addicts, and personality disorders of different kinds who have been relieved of their problem through fundamentalist Christianity - through handing their problem over to Christ. It is obvious to me that these people have been greatly changed for the better. And in a way that no clinical therapy could have achieved.   

When a person has struggled against a problem for many years, been in mental institutions, prisons, homeless, lost family and marriages, almost destroyed themselves, all the while struggling to free their self from their ways, but unable to, and then one day they walk past a church, hear singing and go it, or attend a prison service, and are compelled to kneel exhausted before Christ, confess their sins and their inability to combat them, and hand their sins and their life over to Christ, and then they are relieved of their problem and their life changes for the better, well we cannot blame them for being somewhat emotional about it.    

The fundamental Christian teachings as taught in the scriptures are not illogical when understood. Most of JCs short statements can be taken literally. The parables though are symbolic, and some of John's gospel is more gnostic or esoteric. I consider the scriptures to be true on their fundamental level as well as their more esoteric levels. It is up to the individual to read them carefully and contemplate them, and let them speak to him on his own level.

When I go to church or get together with some Christian friends I don't care if they are catholic, protestant, fundamentalist, or esoteric, it makes no difference to me. I have my own understanding of the scriptures and that is my own, and they have theirs. I speak to them in their words, and adjust my thinking to theirs so that we can communicate easily. The same when teaching meditation to hindus, yoga students, new agers, martial artists, psychs and counsellors, or when discussing concepts with esoteric types, the language of thought and words must be adjusted to suit the people we are with, but the essence of what we are discussing and communicating is the same. Only the dressing or clothing is different.

We wouldn't think mathematics was no good just because we knew a crowd of people who practiced it and who were unsavoury or illogical. For people and mathematics are two different things. And the mathematics is helping the people become more logical. And there is basic maths and there are algebraic maths and more abstract and esoteric maths that physicists use. But its all essentially in the basics. Just like esoteric spirituality is essentially in fundamental religious scripture. Advanced levels are only extrapolations of fundamentals. 

Quote:

The noise and lack of logic is in the people, not in the scriptures. And emotionalism is in people generally, not just Christian people.

Very true. Yet these that "have found relief from their affliction through fundamentalist Christianity" often do use noise and emotionalism to impose their own particular worldview/Bible interpretation on others, as that is part and parcel of fundamentalism. Alan here is a case in point. (BTW i have no quarrel with him) I have lived with this all my life. Hell if you do this, Hell if you don't do that. My spouse regularly throws hell at my 3 children. I do not feel Christ's teachings are illogical and agree that "It is up to the individual to read them carefully and contemplate them, and let them speak to him on his own level." but fundamentalists would deny you this privilege.

1796, you write about handing over sins/errors and life to Christ, similar to let go and let God. Do you know about the mechanics of how this works?

<<When I go to church or get together with some Christian friends I don't care if they are catholic, protestant, fundamentalist, or esoteric, it makes no difference to me. I have my own understanding of the scriptures and that is my own, and they have theirs. I speak to them in their words, and adjust my thinking to theirs so that we can communicate easily.>>

I can't help but wonder how you'd communicate with a Jehovah Witness.  It's pretty much their way or the highway.  I lost a childhood friend, who converted to the JW's and was relentless in giving me magazines and finally, when I told him I couldn't accept the teachings (only 144,000 people will be admitted to heaven, the rest of rhe JWs will live in peace on rhe earth for 1,000 years) he now refuses to see or talk to me. 

R

Quote:

Yet these ... often do use noise and emotionalism to impose their own particular worldview/Bible interpretation on others, as that is part and parcel of fundamentalism. ...  "It is up to the individual to read them carefully and contemplate them, and let them speak to him on his own level." but fundamentalists would deny you this privilege.

    

...impose their world view on you...deny you your own freewill and free intellect ? ! 


When you're a child, maybe. But not when you're a mature adult. As adults we have our own minds. 

Don't be like those weak characters on this forum and elsewhere who are frequently bleating that others on the forum are somehow denying them their freewill and self determination, bullying them and imposing their beliefs on them. Those people are classic weak characters. They are victim minded and like it. They are grown up babies.   Don't be like them. 

Be your own man. Exercise your own freewill and free intellect.

Freewill isn't only about governing what you do and what comes from you. It is also about you governing what you take in and adopt.   

Alan could plaster his posts on the end of every thread in the forum and interject everywhere, and I couldn't care a dead rat if he did. He's not bothering me. Why should he bother you. Its only a web site. It cannot impose on you or your thinking unless you choose to take it in. Ignore him if you're not interested. Or switch off and go read a book, do a job or go for a walk.      

wrote on Feb 5^th, 2016 at 1:26pm:

1796, you write about handing over sins/errors and life to Christ, similar to let go and let God. Do you know about the mechanics of how this works?

Yes. Briefly, there is a greater will than our own that takes over.

And, more significantly, when we hand over, the act of presenting our self honestly before God enables the package of mental-emotional energy to be dissolved and nullified and a new underlying value to be installed.

The full mechanics of this might get explained on the internet in a while.   

rondele wrote on Feb 5^th, 2016 at 1:28pm:

<<When I go to church or get together with some Christian friends I don't care if they are catholic, protestant, fundamentalist, or esoteric, it makes no difference to me. I have my own understanding of the scriptures and that is my own, and they have theirs. I speak to them in their words, and adjust my thinking to theirs so that we can communicate easily.>> I can't help but wonder how you'd communicate with a Jehovah Witness.  It's pretty much their way or the highway.  I lost a childhood friend, who converted to the JW's and was relentless in giving me magazines and finally, when I told him I couldn't accept the teachings (only 144,000 people will be admitted to heaven, the rest of rhe JWs will live in peace on rhe earth for 1,000 years) he now refuses to see or talk to me.  R

I have three good friends who are JW's. Three ladies. I have known one for 15 years. They visit me regularly and stay for several hours. I am honest with them about where I stand, but I do not reveal my occult knowledge. In real life I am most secretive about that. We sometimes meet in town. I attend their hall meetings occasionally. They know I'm not going to join the church but I do go along now and then. They like to dress well for meetings. I like that too. I enjoy putting on a suit. Sure, they think I'm missing out on something by not being a full member, but I don't mind. I understand them. They are good people. They do no harm.

It is brushed aside in this discussion but we are all subjected to the repetition of some ideas over and over in our lifetimes from when we are small children.

It is very easy to tell people to just ignore what they don't want to hear. Just leave. Just walk away. Stop being such a victim they say.... Obviously, some who speak on this forum were not raised as the "weaker" sex in our world. The one who is supposed to be silent, in the traditional sense.  The one who is most often treated like a domestic servant in this world.

It is not easy to overcome such ideas. It is also not easy to overcome ideas which are deliberately put into our heads from a very young age, so it is not just a matter of turning your attention elsewhere.

By speaking this way I am not trying to create ill will toward those who believe what they believe. But it is my right to speak so, and I won't be shamed for it. There are countries where I would personally be publicly humiliated and punished for doing so and I will not submit to that here in my country where I have worked my entire life to support myself as well as others on occasion.

Many who insist that their professed belief is correct will have their own ideas of proper speech and behavior and will indeed impose them on others. There can be a kind of brainwashing effect over time in their unlucky victims.

The relationship that we each have with ourselves is very precious. No one else can tell you to get down on your knees and submit to their god. Why would you want to submit to their god? Especially a vindictive god.

I'd rather teach myself how to be happy and healthy for my remaining years. I suspect a lot of people just want to find a way to live healthier and happier. On a planet where people must do whatever it takes to survive in many cases, instead of being able to grow and flourish in a more natural way, it is no surprise what happens here to our hearts and minds along the way.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/349/6251/aac4716

http://www.gwern.net/docs/genetics/2016-plomin.pdf

These negative comments about Bruce and this site, display fear and a fear related belief system.  The fear and psychological pain of the author, along with his worry and self-loathing are evident.  But it is not in keeping with the true spirit of the gospels.   

What is the spirit of the gospels?  Love; love of God and of people.  Unconditional love.  Turning the other cheek.  Acting lovingly, without judging others worthy or unworthy.

Finding JC, and surrendering oneself in no way means disparaging another.  You can find a higher love, even communicate your feelings about it to others without condemning them to hell fire.  True love goes hand in hand with compassion, not hate or fear.

I don't come to this site as much, but I have learned a lot from interactions here over the years and talked with some extraordinary people.  It is clear that Bruce has no intention of deceiving people.  He walks the walk.  You may agree or disagree with his beliefs, but you have no right to assume that he is deliberately misleading people.

I feel more sad for Alan than anything else.  Finding God, and surrendering one's ego, should never be an angry or fearful experience.  Many who have done so report of an overwhelming sense of peace and joy.  With enlightenment comes peace, not conflict.  It is clear that those who need to strike fear into others to repent, be fearful, etc. are suffering themselves. 


M

I believe in freedom of speech, but Alan just seems to be trolling.  If I were a moderator I would consider a suspension or ban of his account.  Just sayin.

How should you be? You should be like a rocky promontory against which the restless surf continually pounds. It stands fast while the churning sea is lulled to sleep at its feet. I hear you say, 'How unlucky that this should happen to me.' But not at all. Perhaps say instead, 'How lucky I am that I am not broken by what has happened and I am not afraid of what is about to happen.' For the same blow might have struck anyone, but not many who would have absorbed it without capitulation or complaint.

wrote on Feb 9^th, 2016 at 5:03pm:

How should you be? You should be like a rocky promontory against which the restless surf continually pounds. It stands fast while the churning sea is lulled to sleep at its feet. I hear you say, 'How unlucky that this should happen to me.' But not at all. Perhaps say instead, 'How lucky I am that I am not broken by what has happened and I am not afraid of what is about to happen.' For the same blow might have struck anyone, but not many who would have absorbed it without capitulation or complaint.

Agreed.  But perhaps it's like the student who jumps in front of the class, rips his clothes off and starts pissing on everyone.  It may not break you, but there might be a better way than sitting there getting pissed on.

Dude, that is a funny response. I don't know of a one size fits all approach but just came across it and thought about this thread.

Dude:

Do you have something against show and tell?  :)


I Am Dude wrote on Feb 9^th, 2016 at 5:04pm:

wrote on Feb 9th, 2016 at 5:03pm: How should you be? You should be like a rocky promontory against which the restless surf continually pounds. It stands fast while the churning sea is lulled to sleep at its feet. I hear you say, 'How unlucky that this should happen to me.' But not at all. Perhaps say instead, 'How lucky I am that I am not broken by what has happened and I am not afraid of what is about to happen.' For the same blow might have struck anyone, but not many who would have absorbed it without capitulation or complaint. Agreed.  But perhaps it's like the student who jumps in front of the class, rips his clothes off and starts pissing on everyone.  It may not break you, but there might be a better way than sitting there getting pissed on.

Haha no I'm all for show and tell, just keep your bodily fluids to yourself!

Fussy!


I Am Dude wrote on Feb 9^th, 2016 at 6:00pm:

Haha no I'm all for show and tell, just keep your bodily fluids to yourself!