I posted this the other day in the OBE section but got no responses. Im hoping someone may be able to answer my question if i repost it here.


I've projected twice the 1st time was  ultra short meaning I heard the popping in my ears high pitch ringing  flashing lights behind my eyelids then swoosh pop i was out then immediately back in my body. The 1st time i wasnt sure what really happened but the 2nd time was a repeat of the 1st time except  when the swoosh pop happened I stayed out my and i could see my ceiling, I looked to the right and left  was floating ever so slowly upward  i kept trying to turn my body around but couldnt... I was so excited that I finally got out. I was out for about 15-20 seconds and my body was just starting to touch the ceiling when i started thinking about passing through the ceiling i got nervous  then whooosh pop back in my body I was....  I was so happy and amazed  I finally did it I knew this was for real. For me alot of questions had been answered but now I have many more.  First, I projected etherically from that point how do I project to the astral?  Second when in the astral where can I go... Like i hear there are literally millions of places to visit (is that true) and if so how do you navigate through such a maze?  Like where do I go from here?

I'd only like comments from experienced projectors please. Not that I don't value everyones comments But I've read alot of books and at this point i'd really like the advice of people who have been where I am now and have surpassed this stage.  Thanks alot everyone and take care   Huh

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We each have a mental-emotional body, we can also call it an astral body, which is comprised of all the thoughts and emotions that we have ever had. Its substance circulates through the centres, like the material blood circulates through the heart, and like other bodily substances circulate or express through and get processed through their respective organs. Each centre has its intake and output. Mental energy/substance circulates through the head centre; emotional energy/substance circulates through the solar plexus centre. The output is at the front of the centre, where the centre expresses itself. The intake is at the back of the centre. At the back of the head and solar plexus centres are storage places, and it is in these storage places where every thought and emotion ever experienced is stored and arranged in order according to spectrums and frequency. The Planet's astral planes are collective reproductions and amalgamations of every person's mental-emotional bodies. Just as every thought and emotion that an individual has ever had is stored within his mental-emotional makeup, so every thought and emotion that every person on Earth has had is stored or replicated in the astral planes. The planet's astral planes are the collective mental emotional bodies (or astral bodies) of all humanity. Even where thoughts have long since not been consciously expressed and their matter/energy has broken down and returned to its natural state on its own plane, it leaves an imprint on an imprinting surface of what it was. These planes fill the space around the globe like radio frequencies. Tuning with them is a matter of being familiar with the mechanism of your own makeup and the frequencies within and around yourself. Firstly one must learn to differentiate their conscious self from their surroundings, including their thoughts, feelings and emotions; that is, know your self. From that foundation, which is the seat of observation and control, is from where things are done. Study yourself, value truth, whatever truth may be. Cultivate a sense of conscious deliberation in all tasks; of operating your self. Attend well to relationships and life duties. Leaving the body is fairly easy, if not automatic, if these things are done, and provided leaving the body is permissible in your life. We cannot consciously leave the body if we are not generally conscious, for it is the intensity and potency of the daily consciousness that enables it to leave the body. This condition of the consciousness counts for more than technique. Most people are seldom conscious; they go about on auto pilot, acting and thinking automatically. Such people seldom consciously leave the body, and if they did they seldom notice it. People who can leave the body are most often conscious of their self and surroundings. When the consciousness is suitably conditioned, and if leaving the body is ok with one's higher soul, then leaving the body may occur without much effort. Our higher self is the part of consciousness above the conscience or crown centre, from which we are an extension on the plane of Earth, and out of body excursions and lessons are for our best when our consciousness has learnt to tune itself with its higher self, and then the two cooperate. The cooperating part is up to our self as individuals. Conscience is the communicating link between the two. The heart is the centre of mutual expression.                

Hi Kran,

Rather than going into specific OBE type stuff, i would recommend some of the framework that Tom Campbell talks about. I don't agree with everything Campbell says as to the specifics, but the general, fundamental theory is based off latest physics data, as well as his and other explorers direct nonphysical experiences.

  Basically it goes something like this.  Only Consciousness is primary.  What we perceive as physical matter and many other various "dimensions" (various so called "nonphysical states") are not objective realities, but specific perspective frameworks with differences of perception/awareness.

  In other words, there is no true "substance" to speak of, but just info being displayed and perceived in certain ways. These different perspectives have different "rule sets", like physical has gravity, electricity, magnetism, etc. 

   Diverging from Campbell some, the over arching rule that runs through all these perspective frames is that of Like attracts and begets Like.  It is especially apparent and strongly obvious in the so called "nonphysical" states. Consciousnesses of similar quality of consciousness and awareness hang out with and are most immediately aware of each other.  The physical is unique in the wide range/spectrum of different and like energies intermixed. 

   Our intention, choices/livingness, thoughts, etc are how we navigate and sift through the various data streams, but always according to that basic, pervasive rule. 

  What we think of as classic OBE is a perspective framework that is pretty connected to the physical. Hence various structures and forms are more immediate and real seeming from such perspectives. 

   However, they are not objectively real (no more or less than the physical). They are interpretations.  There is no "substances", etc, etc.  The more collectively supported the framework or the more you believe same, the more real it will seem.  Meaning if a large group of consciousnesses focus on a certain idea or concept, it becomes temporarily real for those until they move on to more expanded perspectives. 

    What does this all mean practically.  We perceive reality, both physical and nonphysical through a distorted, refractive lens where both collective AND individual beliefs, intentions, choices, etc strongly influence our perception of those realities. 

  Take for example the concept of the Akashic records in the so called "astral".  Some people perceive these as being "books", but it's not really books--that's just our human experiences influencing our perception of the information.

  Take the "silver cord".  No such thing objectively, there is no "thing", nor space in reality.  Some perceived a silver cord because they didn't understand the larger nature of reality and that consciousness is dimensional, not spatial. They needed a concept of a cord to make sense of a shift into a different perspective of reality  We don't even really "go out of our body".  We just shift/phase perspectives within different levels of consciousness.

The body and physical itself is a construct, a perspective framework that operates according a combo collective and individual belief systems, choices, probabilistic rule sets, etc.  Someday, there won't be a physical reality, because consciousnesses won't need nor get stuck in limited perspectives. 

   Anyways, i would say, just explore these other states with an open mind. However, don't become too attached to this, because in the grand scheme, it's not that important.  What is most important is growing in Love, and much of that is about ones choices and relationships here in the physical.  There are probably good reasons why a part of yourself is focused in the physical currently. 

    And what's a lot more helpful than exploring various different consciousness states, is starting to connect to and communicate with those that are consciously aware within the most expanded perspective.  That is full Oneness with the Whole, pure Love.  These do not have any distortions and limited belief systems anymore. They have pure, objective perception of all things, because they have access to all data and perspectives. They know you better than you yet know yourself, because they are fully merged with you, but without your fears, ego, distorted beliefs, etc. They perceive you as you truly are.  On some level, most of us aspire to become like these.  That is our deepest yearning, and what drives us on despite stumbling around in the proverbial dark. 

   Those that are consciously aware in this state can help one towards the goal of happiness more than any exploration of limited and distorted perspective frameworks. 

   So to sum it up, exploration is a nice side hobby, but making it a full time occupation tends to be a limited choice in many cases.  Living a positive, helpful, loving life as a human, and connecting regularly to the most expanded Guidance are the true ways to free self and fully realize one's potential.

   

   

1796- It's not clear (at least to me) whether you personally have had OBEs.  Assuming you have, I'm wondering if you set up a way in which you could verify that you were in fact out of body.

Sometime ago a hospital got attention for its plan to see if it could verify accounts of patients who claimed such experiences.  Sorry, can't recall details, maybe someone else can provide them.

In any case have you verified your OBEs (assuming you've had them)?  Such as having a friend write either a secret word or other code and place the paper in a remote location where it would only be accessible while out of body?

Seems that OBEs should be reasonably easy to verify, but in all the years I've followed this subject I don't recall any conclusive evidence being presented and documented.

Can't help but wonder why, other than books by Wm. Buhlman who stated that objects while OOB take on a different appearance.  For example, the sofa might be in its familiar location but it has a different shape, color or other characteristics.  Could that be a possible explanation?

R

Kran,  Forget the so called physics explaination - there isn't one.

For my OBEs, I felt like I was stuck in my body by velco.  I did have assistance from two beings that helped yank me out of my body.  I do not think there is an exact methodology to it; it's something the individual has to learn. For me there was a large aspect of my mind being unwilling to let go of the body. That I found was a tremendous instinct I guess; to stay rooted in the body.

Now when I'm gone, I am aware of returning to my body, but I typically am not aware of leaving it.  When I leave I'm not thinking about my body at all.  And it is very difficult to say where one goes and what that is, though there are plenty of people who will assuredly tell you.   

There is also a large question about what realm your OBE is occurring in, verse what realm simply conscious exploration takes place in.

My advice would be to search for ethereal (I guess) mentor beings that wish to help you with this.  They too would be able to teach you what you need to know.

Avoid franchises that will sell you a bunch of DVDs that will talk you into having (or thinking your having) an OBE... IMO.

If you truly search out your questions,  and it is in line with the purpose of the universe around you, you will find what you need.

again.... IMO

Guess I should add, for verification once I decided to go out to the parking lot (OBE) of an unfamiliar place and see if I could identity the last car in a row.  It was night.  I found I couldn't really make anything out.  The next morning when I went to check it out, I saw the vehicle was black.

The next night I tried it again.  This time I made out a silver sedan.... thought I might recognize the model, but I was not seeing in full view, more like looking through a telescope.  Tried to see the license plate but it was like needing glasses - could make much out.   The next day I went to check the end car, and it was silver, but there were two silver cars.  It seem I had seen parts of both cars and assumed there was one silver car I must have incorrectly tried to determine the model from the composite of two cars.  So perception isn't the best.  However, as one of my mentor beings explained early on, one shouldn't expect to "see" as one would with one's eyes.  How well do you see when you dream?  Sometimes very clearly other times not.

Now I generally leave this plane all together; just not interested in traveling here.  Out "There", I sometimes allow myself to simply drift, or race, forward, or upward, and simply  find what I may encounter.  Sometimes going too fast and blasting past something only to find I'm not good at turning around an re-finding the spot.   

Lastly, I don't bother going anywhere OBE, I am moving trans-consciously through levels (if I may use that terminology). Generally I'm trying to meet someone, rather then visit someplace.   And often I am meeting some in simply a mind-to-mind contact.  Many other times, there will be visual contexts along with the conversations and the conversations are more audible.  At first I was taken to those places and encounters.  I could not get there on my own.

Go a million places?  More Internet hype.

PM me if you wish more details and explanations. - Bill

Thanks for the reply's everyone. When I projected it wasn't like anything ive ever done before and I was actually trying to project! When I popped out it was amazing but I didn't have any control I was just floating. I need to learn how to move while out of my body then I need to learn how to goto places like "the summerland" that I read about or maybe explore some hollow heavens that I've read about on this board.  That's what I mean about a ton of places to visit. Is there anyway to see any family members who have passed on while out of my body? These are some of the questions I have now..... T

rondele wrote on Jul 24^th, 2015 at 6:23pm:

1796- It's not clear (at least to me) whether you personally have had OBEs.  Assuming you have, I'm wondering if you set up a way in which you could verify that you were in fact out of body. Sometime ago a hospital got attention for its plan to see if it could verify accounts of patients who claimed such experiences.  Sorry, can't recall details, maybe someone else can provide them. In any case have you verified your OBEs (assuming you've had them)?  Such as having a friend write either a secret word or other code and place the paper in a remote location where it would only be accessible while out of body? Seems that OBEs should be reasonably easy to verify, but in all the years I've followed this subject I don't recall any conclusive evidence being presented and documented. Can't help but wonder why, other than books by Wm. Buhlman who stated that objects while OOB take on a different appearance.  For example, the sofa might be in its familiar location but it has a different shape, color or other characteristics.  Could that be a possible explanation? to R

Many hospitals have unusual objects or cards with symbols or numbers on them positioned in their operating theatres in such places as can only be seen from the ceiling. These items are to assist in verifying patient's accounts if they claim to have been out of body.

Two neuroscientists from a major state hospital brought a van load of imaging, EEG and other equipment to my house and stayed for a weekend. I was like a guinea pig for two days, meditating and sleeping while they imaged the house and my brain. Nothing much came of it as far as verifying any out of body activity but we became good friends.    

Some reasons why verification of full conscious out of body excursions (obe’s) is difficult:

Following are some analogies:

The fish has a body that is suitable for the medium of water. Imagine a deep water fish that could leave its body, but when it left its body suitable for the medium of water it found it was in a body suitable for the medium of air, and had immediately risen out of the water and was flying in the air above land and sea. Afterwards the fish told the other fish down in the deep ocean that it had left its body and saw wonderful sights, and they said, if you can leave your body then surely you can verify it by telling us the secret number that we have put under this stone on the ocean floor.
   
Also: Consciously leaving the body is mostly done in conscious cooperation with one’s oversoul. The oversoul is the consciousness from which our own consciousness extends, and between it and our self is conscience. One must tune oneself with conscience, and with oversoul, that is, hand oneself over to its will and purpose, and if in doing that, leaving the body is permissible and beneficial, then leaving the body may proceed. It is not so much our own will that causes our self to leave the body, but the will of our oversoul; and only within the extent that we reflect and tune our-will with that-will do we have control over leaving the body.

The oversoul from which we extend has no interest in verifying to extensions (other people) from other oversouls that it can extract one of its own extensions (our self) from our body. Just as you have no interest to prove to other people’s feet that you can pull one of your own feet from its shoe. Even if your foot said to you, “Let me prove to other feet that I can leave my shoe,” you would probably reply to your foot, “We have more important things to do than that, for when I take you out of your shoe it is to take you places where you cannot go while in your shoe, to show you things that otherwise you cannot see.” Leaving your body is like your oversoul taking its foot out of its shoe. For we each are like a pseudopod.

And if your gloved hand said to you, “Help me prove to other gloved hands that you can pull me out of my glove,” then you would say to your hand, “When I put you in a glove it is so you can work for me and do things with a glove on that you could not do without a glove. And when I take you out of your glove it is so that you can sense fine things and do fine work for me that you cannot do when in your glove. I do not take you out of your glove for you to prove to other hands in their gloves that I can take you out of yours.” For when we learn to tune our self with our oversoul then we become like a hand of our oversoul. And leaving the body is like our oversoul taking its hand out of a glove.

If you are a tradesman who works for a boss and wears your boss's uniform, and while you are working for your boss someone asks you to do a job for them, and you say, “Certainly I will do that job for you”, and you do the job on the side and take the person’s payment for yourself, and your boss finds out you did that, then he will consider you lacking in moral integrity, untrustworthy, and he may give you dull work to do and will not further train you or promote you, or he may sack you, for you have stolen his customer and taken money and credit that rightly belongs to your boss. But if when the person asked you to do the job, you replied, “I am employed by my boss so I will ask him if he can send someone to do the job for you.” Then when you report to your boss that you know someone who wants a job done he will send you or another of his tradesmen in company uniform to do the job. And if you tell your boss you would like to do the job yourself then your boss will likely allocate the job to you, for your pleasure doing his work is his pleasure too; and he may also tell you to give the customer a discount or an extra service, for he knows he may not have received their custom if not for your honesty, and he will reward you for being trustworthy and bringing business to his company, so you will be given further training, offered promotions, and given more freedom in your work because you are trustworthy and good for the company. For we are like an employee of our oversoul which is our employer. When working well for our employer we only work within the bounds of what our employer wants, but if we make our interests in line with his interests then he will oblige us and reward us as well.  Our conscience is our radio for communicating with our employer; our heart is our most significant tool of trade.

The relationship between soul and oversoul is similar to the relationship between the Son and the Father as described in the Gospel of John.

Nearly all my obe’s are to attend classes or lessons, and they are all done in cooperation with my oversoul. These are just a few examples that show that they are not the sort of thing that one can just interrupt to go and verify a secret number hidden somewhere. And I certainly would not do so, for the lesson of the excursion for me is far more valuable than verifying some number to someone else, which seems so petty in comparison to such wonderful lessons. 
https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2014/02/20/616/
https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2013/12/31/mother-earth-breath-life-and-god/
https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2014/10/30/the-picture-book/
https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2014/02/01/spirals-of-time/

Imagine in the middle of obe’s like those, or any other lessons, telling your oversoul to stop the process because you have to read a secret number in a box to tell the number to your friend who wants you to verify it for him. The process would stop alright, and probably never happen again. For it would be as if your boss offered you a special day as training for promotion, and instead of attending you decided to go home and tell your friend about it, and then you miss the opportunity and lose the trust of your boss.
 
So the mindset in which it seems reasonable to verify the OBE to others, cannot easily leave the body; and the mindset to which leaving the body is possible, cannot easily verify it to others. For when it leaves the body such great and wonderful things fill its attention that the things that were reasonable before immediately pale into insignificance.

Mutual excursions:
There is though, an interesting form of possible verification of out of body excursion and that is mutual out of body excursions, whereby two souls leave their bodies together, and can then discuss the experience afterwards. (Remember the fish that leaves its body and finds itself in another medium flying over the land and cannot verify the number put under the stone on the ocean floor, but it might go out of body with another fish and they fly over the land together and verify the experience to each other.) When leaving the body together, both may be consciously out of body, or one person may be semi-conscious and experience the out-of-body excursion as a dream and the other may experience it as a conscious out of body excursion. Or both may experience it as the same dream, and with repetition and time this can help train them in differentiating between types of dreams and OBE’s. Naturally each person experiences the same dream from their own perspective. I have done this mutual verification many times, mostly with one other person, and several times with others. Telling another person their dream is not all fun and games though, there are significant issues involved.    

Communication while out of body:
Also, there exists a definite obstacle to two people being able to consciously leave their bodies together, and that obstacle is the way communication takes place while out of body. When out of body, communication happens just by looking at each other and being in each other’s presence or attention. And out of body communication exchanges huge amounts of information instantly. This not only means that thoughts fly between the couple rapidly, which can be overwhelming, but most significantly, it means that at a glance one can know the entire interior of the other person, all the thoughts and desires they have ever had, and the entire makeup of their personality energy. Most people keep much of their self hidden from others, so as much as they might superficially imagine it would be nice to go out of body with someone else, they actually would not enjoy being consciously out of body with someone else because of revealing their entire self. There is a lot in most people's personality that they don't even want to face up to themselves, let alone reveal it to someone else. Also the subconscious has two automated prime roles, being storekeeper and defender. The subconscious senses beforehand the vulnerability associated with being consciously out of body with someone else and disallows it before it happens. This is also the reason why we cannot get close to someone without their permission when we are full consciously out of body – their subconscious puts out a barrier that prevents it, and if we press the matter their subconscious will knock us back so hard that we will probably bounce back to our body and never be able to leave our body again. The only way around this obstacle is through love, with genuine understanding and forgiveness. The subconscious recognises genuine love, like a key or password, and allows contact. Subconscious may also allow contact with a semiconscious or unconscious person, where there is no active intellect or freewill control, therefore mutual dreams or semi-conscious out of body excursions are possible for most people, and these provide a means of verification. But of course, just because you have a dream with someone else in it, does not mean they had the same dream or that you were both out of body together, for we may conjure up all sorts of things and people in dreams. But if two people want to, and if they truly love and understand each other, then it is possible to leave their bodies together, either consciously or as dreams.

Explain the process:
Another way of verifying or offering proof of such experiences to others is for those who know how leaving the body is achieved to provide clear guidelines and instructions to others, so that others might explore along similar lines and verify the matter for themselves. That is why I describe how I do it, and the mechanism of the soul, centres and subtle bodies by which I do it. And I intend to reveal more.   

  Verification is not a black and white thing.  While it's not important to verify experiences for other people in many cases, it is often helpful to have verification so that self knows it is on the right track. 

   I've experienced a lot of different verification of info received intuitively over the years.

  Some of these involved precog info, that i couldn't have possibly known about.

  For example, at the Monroe Institute, during the Gateway Voyage, i asked guidance to show me something helpful for me to see.  I heard a man's name, someone i was slightly familiar with, and then i saw an image, along with the image came impressions of certain colors. 

   The next day, the trainers said we have a surprise for you.  Long story short, we got to meet someone well known  in the RV field.  It was the same person i had gotten info about the day before.  And the colors i got impressions of, he was wearing.   Also, before meeting him, we had done a remote viewing exercise.  I got definite hits on that.  I kept sensing this big but relatively thin, arching structure and water.  I had no idea what it was, but turns out the target was St. Louis arch. 

  Another experience at TMI was when i was meditating, i suddenly got a sharp pain in one of my feet, but such as soon as it came, it went.  I hadn't ever experienced anything like that in meditation before.  Later that day, Becky and i walked down to the lake to swim, walking back, i decided to not wear my shoes, and ended up stepping on a thorn, which caused pain in the same foot and area of same that i had experienced earlier during the meditation.

   A lot of verification i've received has some in the experience of synchronicity with others, and some kind of future development.  I mentioned the Tom Campbell experience. 

  Point being, is besides building up trust, verification also helps to keep one balanced and grounded.  If one is receiving/perceiving info regulary (however, and in whatever "state" that is), but rarely if ever receives any kind of corroborating verification, then there is a possibility that it would be helpful to take a step back and re examine the process. There have been many New Age channeler types, that give out very little in the way of verification, and their info is almost completely philosophical in nature, and there is no way to materially check on it. 

Not surprisingly, a percentage of these outer sources that i have come across, have rung warning bells to my intuition.

  The more one attunes to Love, the more one's perceptions tend to expand, clarify, and become more holistically accurate.  Sources or individuals that don't come from a stronger Love attunement, often lack holistic accuracy, helpfulness, etc. 

  But, unless you are at the Yeshua-He/She level, it's impossible to get things right all the time.  There always will be some distortion, because there is not a pure attunement to Love.  There is some static.  Pure Love is the clearest signal/reality, and any mismatch in frequency to same, will produce static.   

  I should add that providing verification for others, like skeptics, can be done, but i've noticed in my own case that when ego becomes involved in the process, it tends to limit and distort such perception. If one can seek such info without ego being involved, then they could do it no problem.  But that isn't easy and of itself.  We tend to have more ego than we are consciously aware of. Much of it for most is rather unconscious.  When i say "ego", i mean a complex admixture of fear complexes/aspects with selfish tendencies and patterns. 

  Many materiial minded folks would likely label that a cop-out, but it's just the way it works.  It really is a kind of physics, albeit a nonphysical type of physics. 

   Everything is judged and relative to that of pure Love, as there are only two absolute realities that co-exist simultaneously, Oneness and Individuality. 

  Love moves us towards the Oneness, but with retention of the latter. 

  Ego/selfishness/fear/separateness moves us towards the individuality in a negative/limiting way. 

  Perception follows beingness, and Like attracts and begets Like. 

   Pretty much anytime my ego has become involved in perceiving, not just nonphysically, but also materially as well, accuracy and helpfulness has gone down.  The most accurate and constructive info i receive, usually comes when i'm in the state of helpfulness/service to others, wanting to better myself to have a better influence on the Whole, etc.  In other words, attunement to Love. 

  Looking at Edgar Cayce's life is a very enlightening exercise in understanding the contrasting nature of these motivations.  Cayce, was to a large extent, dependent on others in the sense of they often had to ask him questions before information would come out. 

   Most people that sought advice from him were seeking physical or spiritual help out of real need or sincerity. 

But occasionally he would get people with very limited and selfish intentions.  Cayce became involved with a group of oil hunters and investors.  There was a lot of intrigue and outright confrontation involved with this very materially minded and selfish group.  Not surprisingly, the info didn't come through very clear and accurately, plus there were indications that someone was sabotaging the project. Cayce himself went into it, because he wanted to build a holistic hospital to help others, but he got caught up in the black gold fever to some extent and for awhile became too polarized to the material.

   When Cayce himself wasn't in good attunement and didn't have a good balance between the physical, mental, and spiritual, his information tended to lose some helpfulness and accuracy.  While his intentions were usually good, occasionally the material or his ego became over involved, and similar thing, the information lacked. 

  That's not to say there was no accuracy at all.  Some people, including his own father, procured private readings without a transcriber like his wife or secretary/friend present.  It was found out later that these people sought information related to things like gambling. 

  The information provided some material fruits, but Cayce himself suffered, he often would awaken with a severe headache after these kinds of very selfish, materialistic readings.  One of the people that sought and materially benefited from such help, i think i remember reading ended up in a mental hospital. 

   This is not to say that material information couldn't be sought with helpfulness and non harm.  Cayce had a number of businessmen friends, but most of these also had spiritual ideals and were service oriented.  A lot of them were very financially helped from Cayce, like Morton Bluementhal, and in turn gave much of their time and money towards "the work" as they often called it. 

  But both immediate intention and choices, and the overall trend of intentions and past choices, is very influential in the kind of, and overall helpfulness and accuracy of psychically received info. 

   This seems to apply most to humans. It seems to be slightly different in cases of some other groups, which are more collectively and consciously psychic to begin with. 

   

Crossbow said: The oversoul from which we extend has no interest in verifying to extensions (other people) from other oversouls that it can extract one of its own extension (our self) from our body. Just as you have no interest to prove to other people’s feet that you can pull one of your own feet from its shoe. Even if your foot said to you, “Let me prove to other feet that I can leave my shoe,” you would probably reply to your foot, “We have more important things to do than that, for when I take you out of your shoe it is to take you places where you cannot go while in your shoe, to show you things that otherwise you cannot see.” Leaving your body is like your oversoul taking its foot out of its shoe. For we each are like a pseudopod.


Recoverer responds: I like that.  Early on a person might receive confirmations that he (or she) is dealing with more than his imagination, but eventually things reach the point where an Oversoul isn't going to waste its time trying to provide confirmations that are no longer needed by the  extension it is working with. For the most part, confirmations aren't provided for the sake of other people.

The only way a person will obtain certainty is by having his (or her) own experiences. A part of being able to do this is being willing to let go of limiting barriers, especially those that are fear-based. It is also a matter of wanting to reconnect with your Source more than you want to hold on to false ideas, attachments and a body-based identity.

  Well said Albert. 

  I just wish that more outer sources out there that set themselves up as some kind of spiritual authority, especially those that make money off it, would provide more verification. 

    Some do, but some of the most well known ones almost never provide info that can be corroborated.  Some of these seem to be of sources with limiting intentions or connections to begin with. 

  However, a limiting source, could provide a decent person with relatively good intentions, with some verifying info.

But i believe that this metaphysical law and pattern does relate to other groups and sources to some extent to, meaning, they might be able to give you the name of someone dead grandma, but probably unlikely to provided say future info that will be accurate, because their perception is more limited than a very Love based source.

  It's an interesting topic, and it would be best to avoid any kind of absolute statements regarding it, because it's relative to the individual to some extent. 

   Some people and sources don't seek or give out verification, because deep down, they know they are not in touch with more expanded forces or are overly faking it.

  Others have just received enough earlier on, that they trust the process and don't need any more verification, and it's just not a focus anymore.

But, i believe initially seeking verification is a good idea for many reasons as mentioned earlier.  It's a good balancing, grounding process.

Sometime people who get involved strongly with spiritual and nonphysical subjects are or become overly polarized to the right brain side of things.  These often will have some nonphysical or spiritual experiences, but they are often the type to overly believe what they want to believe, not based on truth but more desire, limiting beliefs, etc.

On the other side are the people who are or become overly left brained, whom over seek verication and proof because so much of them can't accept spiritual reality or just limited aspects of same for whatever reason(s).

For the first group, your average say very new age type whom isn't grounded enough, seeking verification in both outer sources and in their own psychic activities would be a helpful process to engage in.  Helps to bring in some left brain balance.

For the latter group, less of a focus and more "going with the flow" would be more helpful. Helps to bring in some necessary and helpful right brain balance and integration
Our guidance and Expanded selves understand our individual, relative needs.  But we can and often do block, or just don't listen to these, hence why great balance, great consciousness expansion, etc is more the exception than the rule here among humans.

Hence the necessity at times for incarnated spiritual teachers and helpers to point people in the right directions.

thanks for all the great replys everyone :) Just to clarify I'm not seeking verification of weather or not I had an obe. I know I did 100 % a) I had been trying to do it for months on a daily basis  b) the night of my OBE I was meditating while lying down and wasn't tired at all, I relaxed my body did my breathing exercises, I built up an astral body, charged my chakras, then while I was sending my energy from my body into my astral body shell i first heard a high pitch ringing in my ears, then lights started flashing from behind my eyelids like really fast it was like someone was turning on and off a lightswitch as fast as they possiably could the ringing in my ears got louder and louder then i heard a sort of buzzing and a shoosh pop pop pop and all of a sudden i was hovering above my body and everything sounded very strange like whispers i couldn't make out in the dark i couldn't move but could see my ceiling as i managed to move my head to the left and could see my desk and chair, my television, my closet my window in my bedroom i was floating closer and closer to  my ceiling and right as i started to touch it I got scared and Wham i popped back into my body i was like OMG the entire time totally excited and amazed  yet the experience left me a bit scared like I felt like I was being watched or something, the way my hearing worked was extremely strange, like thousands of whispers in the dark that i couldn't make out at all imagine so many whispers that it blended into a kind of weird sound that no longer sounded like whispers if that makes any sense at all. I haven't projected since even though ive tried. I think I'm afraid of a) having no control of my astral body at all i couldn't move the only thing i moved slightly was my head and b) I felt like I was being watched or something I dono, I want to project again but I need to figure out how to gain control and once I have control where should I go? Like how do I move from the etheric into the astral?

Someone who is new to astral travelling is likely to have out of body excursions where the externalised consciousness can observe but does not possess a fully active intellect and freewilled control, and if beneficial to them they might experience excursions where some things can be observed and verified later when back within the body.

This is an example: https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/?s=rocks

Such experiences might be considered a required step for someone towards further experiences where such physically verifiable details are not featured. I expect that was the case with myself, for I was just commencing my study of the subject then and at that time such verifications as seeing and verifying that pile of rocks did help to spur me on.

Even in later years excursions occur whereby I can verify physical details. Such verifications are usually only personally applicable though.

Mutually experienced out of body excursions, whether fully conscious or as dreams, can be disturbing and testing for the individuals concerned.

The greatest and most significant verification though, is the benefit to one's life, and hopefully benefit to the lives of others that one has contact with too. But even what seems beneficial can be deceptive, and take some tests and trials to learn.

When we understand and accept this, and keep quiet about what we can do, then our possibilities really start to open up.          

Kran,

Your experience sounds familiar to many people's early out of body experiences.

The whispers and other phenomena are common, particularly for beginners. There can be much activity in the astral. Do not be concerned about any of it. Regarding the whispers, or any other phenomena, the best approach is to just remain observant and mentally unmoved. Just continue with your exercise, as if what you are doing is your only concern.

It is like backing a trailer into an unfamiliar place, and while doing so there are all sorts of noises, activity and potential distractions going on around you, but you just ignore the distractions and focus on carefully backing the trailer.   

There is nothing to fear in astral travel; nothing at all, despite appearances and despite the silly stories you might read about reptilian predators and other supposed evil influences in the astral worlds. Just develop poise, a sense of your own stable presence and self control, and nothing will bother you.   

Regards your differentiating between etheric and astral; you are not defining what you mean by each, and most people who use the terms do so without distinction anyway. But I can guess what you mean. Either way your questions, How do you gain more control? and How do you move from the etheric to the astral? will be discovered and answered by yourself if you simply persevere with your practice. It is something like learning to ride a pushbike; once you get moving along you begin to work it out for your self, and figure out how to coast along and how peddle up hill. Persevere, practice, cultivate a warm heart and good mental health, and stay away from drugs.

There is a sure indicator of a person who is not making progress in such arts, and that is the person who takes mind altering drugs. Drugs bend, distort and tear the astral body, disrupt the workings of the centres, and mess up the mind and reasoning faculties. Cannabis, which many think is harmless, is one of the most harmful, being a drug of self delusion. The damage drugs do can take many years to rectify, even if the damage can be rectified in one lifetime which often it cannot. So live healthily, practice, don't neglect your daily life duties, and if astral travel is for you, then you will most likely have further interesting experiences.   

Similar to what others wrote on this thread, years ago I had OBEs with all the effects, this no longer happens because it is no longer necessary. I believe that in some cases such effects happen initially because our higher self wants to help us become aware of what is going on.

I must say, I do somewhat miss the experience of doing things like flying through energetic tunnels while fully awake. It was exciting to see what would happen next. :) It was interesting to be aware of my physical body and flying around at the same time. The sound effects were cool.

Quote:

"There is nothing to fear in astral travel; nothing at all, despite appearances and despite the silly stories you might read about reptilian predators and other supposed evil influences in the astral worlds"

No one here has ever said anything about reptilians in relation to OBE and the astral, let alone cautioning about same.

   In a sense, it's fairly straightforward and simple to get around such potential influencing outer hindrances. 

  Live one's life in a positive way and grow in Love, and ask the most expanded and Love attuned to help protect oneself.  Lack of fear also helps, but that comes with attunement to PUL naturally.

  Reptilians are like you and i, they use a dense physical body that originates in a similar frequency bandwidth as our physical . While they are are more consciously psychic than the average human and have much more advanced technology, they are not omnipotent nor omniscient.

  Most of the potential harm comes more subtly, it's more like softly whispering limiting ideas, beliefs, etc into one's mind either directly or indirectly through outer sources they have influenced directly (like some channeling material, etc). As mentioned, they tend not to just show up to someone whom is consicous enough to remember such an experience, they don't want to be known about. 

  In other words, they lurk in the shadows, metaphorically speaking. 

This is my last post on this thread about this issue, but i felt a correction to an overly generalized, exaggerated, and misleading statement was necessary.

1796 said: There is nothing to fear in astral travel; nothing at all, despite appearances and despite the silly stories you might read about reptilian predators and other supposed evil influences in the astral worlds.

Recoverer responds: What if your Oversoul told you about such a thing? Is it just being silly? What if it told you that you don't have to be afraid of such things as long as you choose love? Is it being silly then?

Some might say that talk about Oversouls is nothing but silliness. Is such talk silliness simply because someone hasn't found out about Oversouls?

I would like to add that before a person becomes too aware of unfriendly beings, he (or she) best not have any similar tendencies such as enjoying disparaging others.

There ya have it.  The Reptilians are like you and me, but they are more psychic than the average human, and have more advanced technology... and they whisper thoughts into your mind... and you can't see them... They sound less like you and me by the word.  But if you think happy thoughts - no worries.  There is nothing to fear.   

So if you aren't afraid of this pesky Reptilians, ya'll should have no problems walking through the Chicago southside on a Saturday morning at about 2:00AM.  Heck, nothing there as bad as a Reptilian.

Yet I am confused, is it because an OverSoul is taking care of everything?  Maybe an UnderSoul is guiding the Reptilians.  Nah, the Plutonians just channeled that the Galactic Council have a trade agreement between the OverSouls and UnderSouls.  But I just saw on the Internet today another channel by last surviving Atlantan being sheltered under Antarctica and that channel says the SupraGalactic Central Committee has an injunction on the trade agreement tho.

It's fairly straightforward and simply.... That's why mankind has been struggling with this for millennium. 

Kran, Find your center.  Find out for yourself.  Don't expect it to be easy, or comfortable, and DON"T be naive.

A number of years ago I was sitting in my easy chair reading a Robert Monroe book. The book said something about aliens and I laughed at the suggestion that they interact with this Earth. Right then I heard a crackle sound, looked up, and with eyes open saw a funny looking alien swoop towards me.

This wasn't an actual alien. Rather, my higher self had me see such an image with the intent of saying, "Are you serious Albert? Do you really believe that aliens aren't involved with this Earth? You ought to know better than that. Look inside and see if you can remember some of what you know within the depths of your Soul."

Some people are open to the possibility that aliens interact with this World.

Fewer are open to the possibility that some of these aliens might be unfriendly.

Fewer yet, are open to the possibility that such aliens might look like reptilians. Perhaps this is a human ego thing. They figure that if an intelligent alien doesn't look like a human, it shold at least look like a mammal.

Well considering that Reptilians are supposed to be cold-blooded attitude wise, perhaps it makes sense that they look like a cold blooded animal.  ;D

There are people at my work who probably believe it is a joke when I say I communicate with spirits. Some of them might think, "what a preposterous thing to believe." A day will come when they will realize that it is really quite odd that so many people doubt spirit communication since after all, we are in truth spirits.

But that's the human game. We forget about the things we knew before we incarnated. Perhaps we knew that unfriendly aliens interact with World. Perhaps even Reptilians. I wonder who will get the last laugh on this subject.

BillB, the principles and how it works is pretty straightforward and simple, however, i didn't say anything about it being easy to more fully or consistently apply.

  Attuning to and growing in PUL type Love, appears to be one of the hardest things for humans, speaking as a trend, to do. Transforming fear also is hard for humans, as a trend.

   While these are difficult, long time human issues, once people care about, understand, and start to put this stuff into practice, they understand that the principles themselves are simple.

  I don't want to go to extremes in talking about shadow issues, i don't want people to think resistance is futile, but neither do i want them to think it's a casual, easy walk in the park.  Sincerely calling on the help of those much more expanded than self or even one's Disk/I-there/Oversoul, can help immediately though when dealing with unwanted, hindering outer influences. 

 

Re. spiritual defence

The only devil we need be concerned about is that part of our self that would have us disobey our conscience.

The same may be said about supposed evil aliens or anyone or anything else that might detrimentally influence us, whether psychically or otherwise.

All detrimental influence, all threats to our spiritual development, come in through the part of our self that would have us disobey our conscience. So what we need to attend to is clear.

Physical threats are, of course, a different matter. They are dealt with physically, but even then, conscience and sensible judgement should govern. 

That is exactly my point.  A new member posts a question and receives a number of answers "as if they are true and correct".

For example: Recoverer writes about an experience AFTER reading Bob's book "..heard a crackle sound, looked up, and with eyes open saw a funny looking alien swoop towards me...this wasn't an actual alien...."  So an actual alien wasn't actually observed.. higher self saw it.  But you didn't see it prior to reading the book.  Every see kids have nightmares after seeing a scary movie? 

My point is there are also sort of intuitive arguments about the natures of other species and why not.  However, my point also distinguishes between what is actually based on experience.  How much is total fantasy passed on over the Internet, then presumed to be true; later re-voiced here.  It is also presumed the Reptilians are cold because they are cold blooded. Who actually knows they are cold blooded (because our retiles are?) and why does that mean a priori that they are cold.. therefore bad.. or evil?  So our reptiles nature to our world are evil?

Concerning PUL: yes in principal that is simple. However, just because one attempts to utilize PUL does not guarantee the desired result.  Maybe you will get the desired response in 30 years and that dose not promise you will not go through a lot of crap waiting for the loving higher beings to keep promise with the "methodology"  Again, over simplifying, principal in the real world.  Otherwise step up to the plate and resolve the conflicts in Ukraine, or the Mid-East, or in Central America, or in any of our inner Cities using Pul.  You should be able to remedy all that by next weekend; I'll watch the news and wait.

Regarding "The only devil we need be concerned about is that part of our self that would have us disobey our conscience...", my point here would be that it's ok to say we know there are Reptilians and their nature, technology ...  But those that believe in the Devil, because they"ve seen it or having working knowledge of it... are wrong?  Their knowledge is archaic, but ours isn't.

This is simply exchanging belief systems for belief systems with knowledge based on the Internet and reading somebody's book(s)

Incidentally, if you believe in PUL, or Source, or Alpha, avoiding words such as God, or Christ, or Mohammad, then one would realize that the Bully-God Bob met was not God at all.  Given that deception, how may other deceptions take place in the experiences that comprise these various books.

Add on that Tom Campbell's personal notions that all of this is a virtual projection and none of "this" is actually real, why believe any of the experiences written in Bob's book(s) aren't simply a ploy to lurer people into "technologies" such as hemi-sync and gain virtual control of the user's minds? 

The point I am trying to make here is that it is easy to move from complete conjecture to assumed Truth.  That information than regurgitated and re-propogated...as if Truth.

I think Kran came here looking for input from people based on their own personal and actual experiences regarding the Astral field and OBEs.   Seems like he's getting an intro to presumed to be true, personal and pet belief systems of certain new age franchises, although some respondents did include aspects of their astral experiences.

This all reminds me of a guy at The Monroe Institute I met during the Gateway seminar.  He had NO "Astral" experiences of his own, and no religious or spiritual experiences of his own, but he knew a lot from reading the Internet.  He was quick at every turn to offer an explanation for everything I had already experienced and was completely wrong.  Yet he presumed he had correct information.

Again, Fran... Go hunt out for yourself what you believe in.  Don't not embrace pre-conceived notions that may, as some contributors put it, front-load your experience.  You don't want to dream about monsters and think they're true simply because you watch a scary movie; the fantasy of some film director.

1796:

One way or the other, I agree with you. Regardless of what is out there, we get to choose how we want to be. Listening to our conscience is a key part of this.

I once had this OBE. I woke up and felt something holding me by my back in a way that hurt. Then I very quickly traveled to a place very far out in space.

An unfriendly alien took me to a dance, led the dance, and held my back in a way that hurt. I told this alien, "I'm commited to God, love and the happiness of all beings, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about this!" The experience imediately came to an end.

I don't believe that I was actually abducted by an unfriendly alien. After all, it would be rather silly for an alien to take me to a dance. Rather, my higher self created this experience in order to make the point that as long as I choose a positive way of being, nothing can hurt me, not even an unfriendly alien.

Being physically harmed is another thing, but that won't effect your Soul unless you let it.



1796 wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 1:54am:

Re. spiritual defence The only devil we need be concerned about is that part of our self that would have us disobey our conscience. The same may be said about supposed evil aliens or anyone or anything else that might detrimentally influence us, whether psychically or otherwise. All detrimental influence, all threats to our spiritual development, come in through the part of our self that would have us disobey our conscience. So what we need to attend to is clear. Physical threats are, of course, a different matter. They are dealt with physically, but even then, conscience and sensible judgement should govern.

  I'll have to kind of agree with BillB here. If that was so easy, and it's just simply a matter of listening to one's conscience, why are so few humans more fully content, joyous, etc, let alone at a Yeshua like level? Why has so much of humanity been stuck for so long? 

  If it were so easy, then wouldn't more humans and their Disks/OverSouls have gotten that far, but instead collectively we have trillions and trillions of lifetimes, and many Disks have hundreds and thousands of lifetimes, and still so few have become truly and completely free.

  It seems much within and without, get's in the way of the simple principle of listening to and following one's conscience.

  We can consider these inner and outer hindrances as blocks. To grow, to transform, we have to effectively deal with them and for that you have to become consciously aware of and deal with them individually, while also generally attuning to Love.  It takes both, not just one or the other.

   Some will make this a black and white issues, but it's not. There are collective, almost universals involved, and then much individual relativity involved.  We all have different blocks within, but a lot of us share similar outer blocks.

  There is an old, Biblical quote that sums up the problem well: "The Spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."  The collective stuckness here, has a strong pull and resonating influence on those that incarnate into human bodies.  It's almost like a type of gravity that weighs us down.

We are in the process of getting to the point where we can overcome all these inner and outer hindrances/blocks, SO that we can more fully and consistently listen to our conscience, but much needs to happen before this more fully flowers in a collective sense.  We're talking some pretty strong and in our face, catalysts. 

 

I'm reposting my post below because I just read what BillB just said

"For example: Recoverer writes about an experience AFTER reading Bob's book "..heard a crackle sound, looked up, and with eyes open saw a funny looking alien swoop towards me...this wasn't an actual alien...."  So an actual alien wasn't actually observed.. higher self saw it.  But you didn't see it prior to reading the book.  Every see kids have nightmares after seeing a scary movie?"

Below I presented another example of an imaginary alien experience. Perhaps my two examples on this thread show that I am able to tell when an experience is imaginary. Yet I still believe that it is very possible that unfriendly aliens interact with this Earth. Why? Because I've had experiences and received information in ways where it was clear that something more than my imagination was involved.

When you have an experience it is important to consider the context and timing. It is possible for such factors to occur in a way where you know that more than your imagination is involved.

I've also had experiences that involved Jesus. Some people will say that such experiences are also a matter of interpreter overlay, imagination, and so on. Sometimes they are overly quick to come to this conclusion because they are AFRAID to see that perhaps there is some  truth to the Jesus story, and that perhaps unfrienly beings exist.

If they are limited and misled by such fears, then they are going to have a very hard time finding out what Jesus is about and whether unfriendly beings interact with this World, because their higher selves and guidance won't be able to help them become aware of the existence of such things.

The interpreter overlay thing can be a two-edged sword if we use it as a defense to not become aware of things we don't want to become aware of, so it is important to take care when considering to what extent it is a factor during an experience.

 


recoverer wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 12:36pm:

1796: One way or the other, I agree with you. Regardless of what is out there, we get to choose how we want to be. Listening to our conscience is a key part of this. I once had this OBE. I woke up and felt something holding me by my back in a way that hurt. Then I very quickly traveled to a place very far out in space. An unfriendly alien took me to a dance, led the dance, and held my back in a way that hurt. I told this alien, "I'm commited to God, love and the happiness of all beings, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about this!" The experience imediately came to an end. I don't believe that I was actually abducted by an unfriendly alien. After all, it would be rather silly for an alien to take me to a dance. Rather, my higher self created this experience in order to make the point that as long as I choose a positive way of being, nothing can hurt me, not even an unfriendly alien. Being physically harmed is another thing, but that won't effect your Soul unless you let it. 1796 wrote on Aug 2nd, 2015 at 1:54am: Re. spiritual defence The only devil we need be concerned about is that part of our self that would have us disobey our conscience. The same may be said about supposed evil aliens or anyone or anything else that might detrimentally influence us, whether psychically or otherwise. All detrimental influence, all threats to our spiritual development, come in through the part of our self that would have us disobey our conscience. So what we need to attend to is clear. Physical threats are, of course, a different matter. They are dealt with physically, but even then, conscience and sensible judgement should govern.

  BillB, neither Recoverer nor i were the ones to bring up negative E.T.'s to Kran here. 

   And rather going into a lot of specifics, i spoke to Kran in a very generalized way, outlining the basic principles and laws behind all this stuff. 

   Front loading as you call it, well that's what Guides do all the time, but they have the wisdom to know when to go into detail, or when to leave it more general, or to just give hints or to just give nudges. 

  They are in the business you could say, of transforming stuck, limited, distorted belief systems into more freeing, expanding, and accurate belief systems.  There are various ways of doing that, and yes, sometimes it comes down to explaining things in a clear and concise way to spark greater understanding.  Literally everything they do, is devoted to that process, because they are trying to help free humans from their inner and outer bonds, so much of which relates to distorted, limiting beliefs.

    I have been on a conscious spiritual path since age 13, and i'm now 35, and in that time i have been through A LOT of challenge and testing.  Much of my path has been about developing my intuitive knowing, which doesn't require any bells and whistles that you are so attached to, all the sensation effects, the flying, the forms, etc. 

Intuition cuts right through to truth. It is our deepest and most core way of perceiving, whether while focused in physical, or nonphysical. A perceptive capacity and sense we have had from the moment we were sparked off from Source.

  To become very intuitive, one must do a few things in tandem--become very clear, balanced, and open ones heart up a lot. It is one of the hardest of the perceptive senses to develop, because it takes so much trust and listening.  Anyone can seemingly leave the body, with all the effects and bells and whistles, and be convinced by that and the experiences one is having, but to listen to that quiet, intuitive part of self, especially for us men, requires a lot more.  Intuitive knowing tends to come much easier to women then men, because they tend to be more innately in touch with their feelings and they tend to more attuned to empathy which keeps the heart open.

  People that get caught up in the bells and whistles, and effects, often times are not particularly objective about their perceptions and experiences, so just because someone has a lot of classic OBE's, doesn't make them an expert on the nonphysical or spiritual reality.  For many years, Bob Monroe was rather clueless in some core ways, despite all his OBE's.  It took him decades to come to similar conclusions that i intuitively knew, accepted, and tried to live when i was a teen.  I got into this whole spiritual and nonphysical thing from an intense, former interest in science, because sometimes late at night starting around the time i was 13, i would get these intuitive downloads about the bigger questions in life, things about the Oneness, Love, etc.   This was before i consciously sought OR read any spiritual literature.

  It all comes down to spiritual attunement within the moment, and overall development and maturity, as perception follows beingness.  You cannot expand the former well, without expanding the latter well.

  I've received enough both inner and outer guidance in and about that area, to accept that it's okay for self to counsel others at times. Do i always do it perfectly and only wisely, no, but i generally know relatively soon after if i was off the mark or not.

  Feel free to disagree BillB. Both you and 1796 seem to think that classic OBE is the holy grail way to truth. You couldn't be anymore off.

   

I am not trying to point out specific individuals, other then to use various statements to illustrate the problem here, as I see it.

You are correct, or I do agree with you, in the statement - if I may paraphrase you - that it ultimately boils down to Intuition and one's spiritual capacity or maturity.  However, that is a tricky business as a result of "mis-guidance" or outright deception.  Like yourself I do rely on inner and outer guidance so to speak.

In pursuit of that notion, I wish to separate out ideas and tangents from the Internet that contribute to the mixing up and confusion of guidance.  I like to use the Reptilians because they are an example of that confusion.  I think it is important to ask for actual evidence since they are part of our physical plane.  The Tall Whites, the Small Grays, etc.. at least there are so called documented witnesses that pertain to the debate about them, along with 40 other species if one accepts what some Disclosure groups say.. though the topic is not about aliens here.

Here, in the case of the "astral" stuff, I would say that there is a plenum of opinions that are simply derived from what's popularized on the Internet.  As a result I question those that quote others who "presume" to know" Truths about that or those dimensions if I may call them that.  Bold statements should be referenced.

With respect to OBEs, actually I am not a big advocate of them because I wonder if, for many, OBEs are simply an expression of a desire to escape; could do acid I suppose - and some build religions around that.  I think OBEs are one of those odd phenomena out there that lead some to bigger questions and perhaps experiences of their own that lead to more questions and hopefully developed spiritual development, but what is "spirituality" for that matter?

In my first response to Kran, I simply responded to his question, provided examples of some of "my" experiences that I don't presume represent global or Universal Truths, or even methodologies.  Note I also asked him what realm is he trying to explore.  And in sum, suggested he search for himself.  I wonder at the people that go to TMI to get their OBE and why they are so preoccupied with "that" experience.

I do agree with you that ultimately for individuals it boils down to Intuition (inner guidance, outer guidance); and in another thread I believe I wrote about human emotion being linked with that.  That we believe our Intuition or gut feelings based on the strength and quality of our emotional response evoked; warm fuzzy feeling=truth, bad feeling=wrong or eveil.  As a result of that, I am cautious of simply deriving my own (T)ruths based on how I "feel" about them because I have found my feelings to be wrong regarding certain things I've encountered - presuming the whole Universe somehow is in sync with my emotional fabric.  And should I really conclude that because some "guides" "appear" loving that they are trustworthy?  I asked that question because I have encountered impostors who were not in fact looking out for my interest. Some I have been able to spot, others have caught me off guard.  In fact I've just been on a weeklong diversion due to such lying beings that appeared to be legit.  So I do use Intuition, but I also rely on my common sense without simply depending on the depth of the feeling to tell my gut that this seems right.  There are opposing forces that are high skilled at derailing one from purpose, based on my experience and actually I have a few decades on ya Justin.

My concern is that one should "beware" in the nonphysically perceived world.  It is completely subjective and there are all sorts of things with their own agendas.  Just because one asks for protection does not mean one is in the clear to blindly accept what any "guide" or whim of thought passing through one's mind states.

There is an old phrase from the more esoteric Christian world - Beware of Angels of Light.  They do not represent Light at all.

In the case of Kran's question, my concern here is how careful are we all about what we presume to say.  Are we speaking from experience or repeating some Internet New Age Dogma that has not survived the test of time?

wrote on Jul 19^th, 2015 at 11:39am:

CB, ... I'm going to go back to ignoring you in a personal sense ...

wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 1:19pm:

... 1796 seem to think that classic OBE is the holy grail way to truth. You couldn't be anymore off.

No, you couldn't be more off.  Perhaps you should go back to ignoring me.

Leaving the body or astral travel is just a tool or a means of transport. It is like any other tool or means of transport. Around the house and in our various employments we use all manner of tools to get the job done. And we use all manner of transport to get to and from work, to and from school, to and from visiting other people, and for other purposes too. We may walk to our destination, or use a motor car, a bike, a horse, a tractor, truck, bus, train, helicopter or plane, or boat. We usually use the form of transport and the tool that is best for the task. And in the same way so I use astral travel too. It is just a means of attending lessons and performing tasks.

Being able to consciously leave the body can certainly be a major step in an individual's realising that consciousness or soul can exist independently of the physical body. And that in itself can be a pivotal learning experience. I recall it was for me. Then after that learning experience is digested we can move on to further learnings.

Most of us recall when we first learnt to drive a motor vehicle - the sense of travel and freedom that came with those early excursions. Driving the car was a task and a thrill in itself. But as the years go by and our familiarity with driving becomes integrated with all our other basic working knowledge, then driving becomes just a means of getting to our destination, a means of enabling us to do other things in other places. So it is with astral travel. 

Some people are happy to drive a motor car without knowing how it works. Others are mechanically minded and have to know how things work. I am one of those. So naturally after my first out-of-body experience I had to find out how it worked and why. And so I set about replicating and examining the matter until I understood the technique and mechanics of leaving the body, and with it, the workings of the soul and its mechanism.

That might sound far fetched, but its not really. I have only studied myself. And we are each the same sort of vessel, with the same sort of working machinery inside. As motor vehicles, even of different types, all work much the same, so do we. Its mostly how we operate the vehicle and what we do with it and where we go with it that differs between us, and that comes of our intent. We each have our own machinery to study if we want to. 

1796 wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2015 at 12:33am:

wrote on Jul 19th, 2015 at 11:39am:     CB, ... I'm going to go back to ignoring you in a personal sense ...  wrote on Aug 2nd, 2015 at 1:19pm:  ... 1796 seem to think that classic OBE is the holy grail way to truth. You couldn't be anymore off. No, you couldn't be more off.  Perhaps you should go back to ignoring me.

  You misunderstood what i said and meant.  I did not mean that i would not address things that you brought up, in an impersonal, debate kind of way.  I meant that i would refrain from "getting personal" in a confrontational, combative way that i briefly engaged in recently. 

  If you state inaccurate, limiting beliefs, or put words into my mouth, i will, at times impersonally address and disagree with same.

That's what i meant by what i said, impersonal debate/disagreement rather than personal jousting and character criticism, etc. 

   Would you like to be completely ignored?  I suppose if this is a strong desire/need on your part, i could acquiescence, but it seems to go against your principles of freedom, free speech, non censure, etc. that you have spoke so strongly of in the past.

 

If an Oversoul was egotistical about receiving help from a more evolved being, then this partly explains why the evolved being is more evolved.

Strength, self-sufficiency, humility and gratitude go together. If a being of love and light who is wiser than you approaches you because it loves you dearly and wants to help you, it isn't a sign of weakness to consider what it has to say.

   I do think it's very important for a person to connect to their own Oversoul/Disk/Spirit etc.  After all, that part of self can best understand, translate and relay information and communication from OverSouls/Disks/Spirits more expanded than our own, to it's human personalities/Souls. 

  However, it's important to point out that even OverSouls etc don't all have the same attunement to Source and PUL. Some are fully inune with same, and many more have a relative, changing attunement with same.  Many humans think they or their Oversouls are wiser and more aware than they really are.

  Hence, it's simply a matter of pragmatic wisdom and basic humility to seek help and guidance from those whom are more expanded than self.  There are different ways to strengthen and boost such connection, and generally speaking, best to be done in a holistic combo. 

  I suppose we are sidetracking Kran's Astral thread too much.  However, some of these principles and talks do relate, indirectly to the issue of exploring and the astral. 

 

   

sigh...  Strife in too much trying there is.

Decided to erase some of my posts because they were side tracking Kran's thread too much.

I expected you would. That is why I didn't reply. 

There is certainly a silver cord though. It is the communication line between our stations of consciousness. It has anatomy and quality of its own. Everything that exists has form, quality and function.