I'm contemplating starting a wikia which attempts to explore Robert Monroe's astral reality in great detail, citing his books by page and chapter as sources wherever possible. I am wondering if anyone else would have an interest in this.

There are many things in his books which went unsaid or not explored more deeply, and it seems like it'd be useful to try to describe it in greater detail.

As far as astral projecting itself goes, I do not appear to be capable of it in any meaningful manner, other than the usual half-remembered weird dreams that have almost zero to do with real life. So for the most part I'd be trying to follow the books exclusively without much personal embellishment.

I suggest you compile a detailed index, and put it on a website/blog. 
It would be only one document but very useful to readers and students of his work.
If it were on a blogsite then others could use the comment function to suggest points/subjects which you might have missed. It might even become a group effort.   

I would suggest one forget the preconceive notions that you've been exposed to, or led to conclude about yourself as you compare yourself to someone else's paradigm, and let the Gateway lessons introduce you to your own experience.  Otherwise you're just adopting someone else's belief system.

Old Chinese Proverb, When doing, it is easy to over-do.

Monroe's "percepts" seem to have been about the cleanest and most filter-free without religious ideas getting in the way, so building a belief system based on what he described experiencing does not seem to be all that bad of starting point.



Though some things he talked about, I do wonder if he really had the full picture. He was repulsed by what he perceived as "The Pile" of highly sexualized after-death nonphysical humans seeking pleasurable contact with each other.

As Monroe apparently never chose to enter it, all we have are his assumptions about it, looking at it from the outside. He believed the participants were not capable of experiencing pleasurable contact without a human body to "do it with".

If you can create your own reality in the nonphysical, then perhaps the participants in The Pile were capable of self-creating the pleasurable experiences that they were seeking within The Pile.

Though I suspect even asking questions about this particular issue is likely to get some negative feedback from the OOBE community, due to its risque topic matter..

You say...."Monroe's "percepts" seem to have been about the cleanest and most filter-free without religious ideas getting in the way, so building a belief system based on what he described experiencing does not seem to be all that bad of starting point…. Though some things he talked about, I do wonder if he really had the full picture".
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Of course he didn’t have the full picture.  No one does.  And even then you are referring to a picture that is completely subjective, and "that" not even perceived through the known physical senses. 

“…the cleanest and most filter-free….ideas” you say.  How does one know that, and compared to what?  Some religion? Which religion? Compared to exactly which religious ideas are you referring to?  Or is it compared to some common themes of some philosophical era, the Pre-Socratic Philosophers perhaps? Is it compared with some philosophical discipline, Ontology or Epistemology?  Clearly not.

One should remove belief systems that are blocking some astral projection?  One by one eliminating every construct in the way of conscious perception beyond the physical?  Then you are reduced to the completely subjective perception via imagination in a realm that one really doesn’t know anything  much about the true nature of the entities encountered.  Now what reference frame does one really have?  Maybe it’s legitimate if it is written in somebody else’s book, or in some discussion forum on the Internet?  Is that how one should determine what is illusion or deception and what isn't?

Here is an interesting definition of “spirituality”: “Spirituality is the aspect of humanity that refers to the way individuals seek and express meaning and purpose, and the way they experience their connectedness to the moment, to self, to others, to nature and to the significant or the sacred".

"Religions" are only the organized structure and belief statements of whatever group is representing their spirituality.  People that like that particular system join. Are they indoctrinated?  Sure. 

However, doesn’t culture itself indoctrinate?  Isn’t education itself indoctrination? Do you think scientists aren’t indoctrinated?  Or how about marketing, isn’t that indoctrination? How about when a bunch of kids in grade school decide they have to wear the same clothes as the cool kids?  Did your parents indoctrinate you?  Isn’t all of that cultural indoctrination?

What are the elements of religions?  A founding leader, disciples, a creed, statement of beliefs, probably constructing some building to meet in.  Taking their beliefs to the field to spread the ideas; then organizing small groups with the same belief system.

In what why is Monroeism any different?  Is there a founding leader?  Did that leader write founding literature which the followers study and think that literature embodies truth.  “I am more than my physical body”.  Is that not a creed?  The affirmation, is that not a prayer?  Are there disciples founding local community group bringing the message of their system to others?  Then, is Monroeism not a religion?  Is it not a religion of esoteric knowledge?  Perhaps it is only "not" a religion to individuals that wish to exclude the word religion when it pertains to them.

And if Monroeism is a religion, in the most general sense, so what?  What difference does that really make?  These words are simply more boxes people use to categorize thinking, and bias, and prejudice.  Ya know, all religions don’t necessarily specify a particular god as per list below. 

One feature some religions do have are followers that are trying to escape their daily reality.  “If only the Rapture would come take me away..”.  How about cult mass suicides?  Or, are people that seek astral projection seeking truth or an escape from their depressing lives?

Here’s a list of popular world religions with their founding leaders.  Do you really think something that has taken place in the last 40 years of so is really so different from that which man has been doing the thousands of years? 

{I’ve removed many Christian ones since they are basically just a Christian sect that has separated from the group.  Oops, Confucianism should be in there too.}

The bottom line is there are religions everywhere, in all forms.  There is indoctrination of all sorts from every corner of culture.  Call it conditioning.  The question is, what are you trying to achieve and why?  Then, how would you know that you actually are doing that? 

Here’s something to reflect on:

Actually Idries Shah provides a “good starting point” when he says”, We are all interested in spirituality, psychological, and social questions, and particularly in our personal problems, but in order to understand how we should learn, what we must know, we must have information…. The first important principle which we must understand is that there are two pre-eminent concepts; one is inclusion and the other is exclusion…. what we include in our studies, and what we exclude from our studies.  Of course Shah speaks from a Sufi tradition.  Maybe we should exclude anything he says...

Ya know, I had a great system of beliefs too that I personally deciphered, back in the 70s when I did more than my share of acid.

2,085 BC. Judaism-Abraham – was he the founder?  Nah, he didn’t institutionalize anything in that he didn’t acquire students.

1,500 BC. Hinduism- no specific founder

1000 BC  Zoroastrianism -  Zoroastrianism founded by Zarathushtra (Zoroaster) in Persia

560 BC. Buddhism- Gautama Buddha

550 BC. Taoism - Lao Tzu

599 BC. Jainism, Mahavira

30 AD. Christianity –Jesus Christ

50-100 AD. Gnosticism-

150-250 AD. -Modalism (Monarchianism)–Sabellius, Praxeus, Noetus, Paul of Samosata

325 AD. -After being persecuted for almost 200 years Constantine made the Church becomes a legal religion.

590 AD.-Roman Catholicism- Developed after Constantine; Pope Gregory?

610 AD.- Islam- Mohammed

1400 AD.- Rosicrucians-Christian Rosenkreuz  (1694 US) Rosicrucians- Master Kelpius, Johann Andrea

1515 AD.- Protestantism- (Reformers) Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, John Calvin

1650 AD.- Tibetan Buddhism-Dalai Lama…. But really a continuation.

1700 AD.- Freemasony- Albert Mackey, Albert Pike

1760 AD.-Swedenborgism- Emmanuel Swedenborg

1784 AD.- Shakers - Mother Ann Lee

1830 AD.- Mormonism – Joseph Smith

1830 AD.-Cambellites-Alexander & Thomas Cambell, Barton Stone

1838 AD.-Tenrikyo- Miki Maegawa Nakayama

1844 AD.-Christadelphians- John Thomas

1844 AD.-Bahai- Baha'u'llah (Abul Baha)

1845-1870AD.- 7th Day Adventists-E.G. White

1848 AD.-Spiritualism - Kate and Margaret Fox

1875 AD.-Theosophical Society- H.P. Blavatsky, Henry Olcott

1879 AD.-Christian Science-Mary Baker Eddy

1889-1924 AD.-Unity School of Christianity- Myrtle Fillmore

1900 AD.-Rosicrucian Fellowship-Max Heindel

1902 AD.- Anthroposophical Society –Rudolf Steiner

1914 AD.- Iglesia ni Cristo- Felix Manalo

1927 AD.- Mind Science- Ernest Holmes

1935 AD.-Self Realization Fellowship- Paramahansa Yogananda

1948 AD.- Latter Rain –Franklin Hall, George Warnock.

1964 AD.- Eckankar The Ancient Science of Soul Travel (Eck).  Founded by Paul Twitchell

1968 AD.- Hare Krishna (US)- Swami Prabhupada

1968 AD.- Children of God- David (Moses) Berg

1944 AD.- Silva Mind Control –Jose Silva

1950 AD.-Urantia Book- Dr. Bill Sadler

1950 AD.-Lafayette Ronald Hubbard published his book Dianetics-SCIENTOLOGY

1954 AD.-Atherius Society (UFO’s)- Dr. George King

1954 AD.- Unification Church- Rev.Sun Myung Moon

1955 AD.- Scientology- L. Ron Hubbard

1958 AD.- Institute of Divine Metaphysical Research- Henry Kinley

1958-1970 AD.- Church Universal and Triumphant –Mark and E.C. Prophet

1958 AD. -Henry Kinley begins (IDMR) the Institute of Divine Metaphysical Research

1960 AD.-Transcendental meditation- Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

1960 AD.-Enkankar- Paul Twitchell

1966 AD.- Church of Satan –Anton LaVey

1970 AD.- Divine light Mission- Guru Maharaj Ji

1973 AD.- CARP was established in the United States.  [The Collegiate Association for the Research of Principles] to introduce the teachings of un Myung Moon.

1980 -1982 AD.- Tara Center-Benjamen Crème

One item that is common in these OOBE discussions is the concept that our mind/brain often gets in the way of whatever we're seeing/experiencing, and applies an interpretation which can be hard to penetrate depending on how deep-seated our own beliefs are.

In general, if you're highly religious, you will likely see religious figures approaching you after death to welcome you into what is your religion's concept of "heaven" is.

Monroe's perceptions seem more unbiased in that he might see a "ball of light" approach him, but without any religious trappings associated with it as being Jesus, etc.

One cannot escape the wiring that one's perceptive and imaginative facilities has established within one's mind via the brain throughout one's lifetime of experiences.  One "somehow" thinks that one "somehow" has a non-bias view of things for what they "are"?  And exactly what "things" are those?  What system of categorizing those things does one refer to?

If one thinks the nature of some entity has a more accurate representation as a "pink blob", or a "funny glowing gingerbread man" than as an armored angel with a flaming sword, what do you know about the real entity?  Do you think the entity exists or not?   How do you know the intent of the pink blog?  By examine the expression on its face?  And should you beware of the pink blog?  Or do you think one will just naturally append the pink blogs NVC and it will be cool?

There are no descriptions of the Elohim themselves in the Old Testament, even after the encounters for which specific names were attributing to them.  Do you think the Elohim do not exist, that they are somehow only myth when compared to glowing gingerbread man?  How would you know them if you encountered them?  And then what are you going to do considering that you have no system of belief that describes their characteristics?  Fly blind?   

Should I think Pillsbury is a more pure representation, that that true image is unsullied?  Of all the etheric beings out there, what do you suppose they look like when viewed by a perceptive organ such as the mind in a state that has no perceptive facilities that it is familiar with?  How long do you think it takes a baby to have any orientation, familiarity, language?  Is the pink blob, pink?  What is pink without your preconceived notions of color from your material state's beliefs and conditioning?  Or are you saying the pink blob is not pink?

So what is there to be afraid of?  Better to see the glowing gingerbread man than the armored angel with a flaming sword?

Walk out into the lush green forest and mostly people just see big trees and bushes.... What does the botanist see?  A LOT more.  Before I wandered thru an unknown forest, thru the brush without paths I think it would be handy to follow a real botanist, but of course that implies a botanist that has been conditioned by some established body of knowledge.  Who knows what thorn one could get stuck by....

Best not to ignore the accumulated knowledge of spirit walkers for thousands of years.

Your argument seems to be contradictory.

First you tell me to not follow the "preconceived notions" of Monroe, but now you're telling me I must not exclude the preconceived notions and symbolisms of thousands-year old belief systems far removed from my own experience, language, and culture.


I think Monroe's recent explorations are the least colored and are much a more valid base to start from, than the flowery unscientific language of other ancient cultures that have been retranslated a half-dozen times.

I have no interest in reading the Tibetan Book of the Dead. I just don't think much of it is going to be relevant in any useful manner. I also generally expect the Koran and the Old Testament to be basically irrelevant and a waste of time to even consider as a literal roadmap for exploration of the nonphysical. The mysteries of Kallabah and the Tree of Life seem to be just symbolism buried within symbolism to the point of being useless.

Or I can take Monroe's lead and work with the concept of frequencies of consciousness, similar to radio bands, with physical existence operating at a lower frequency and the nonphysical a higher frequency. Seems quite logical and rational, and easy to understand in the modern frame of reference.

Javik wrote on Jan 4^th, 2015 at 7:36pm:

I have no interest in reading the Tibetan Book of the Dead. I just don't think much of it is going to be relevant in any useful manner.

Within any organized body of knowledge, Tibetan death beliefs for example, the truth might be found by comparing them to my experience and (within the limitations culture, language and symbolism and translation) looking for correlations.  I found value in discovery of common threads of knowledge found through studying as many religions as I could find.  What's common to all belief systems if probably closer to whatever the truth is, than any one of them could ever be.

I discovered verification of those common threads in my exploration experiences.  For example I found my Disk concept perfectly represented in a statue of Buddha in Kyoto Japan.  It was shocking for my Japanese host when I pointed it out to him.

Bruce

Most humans are barely sane.

I bet Columbus considered "all" the maps and every ship record's notation that were available when he was planning his expedition to American.

Why? He understood the cost.