This experience is standard ADC stuff, but I share it because I just heard it from a parishioner last week.
Jim's mother died, and while he was mourning, the jeweled music box in the living room unexpectedly began to play on its own.  This had never happened before and it was very meaningful to Jim, who was still grieving over his son's suicide.  The music box had been given to Jim as a Christmas present from his Mom; so the synchronicity was interpreted as a  reassuring message from his recently deceased Mom. 

Yeah there are so many of these smaller but personally significant stories around, I say smaller as it is shorter than say the Nanci Dannison story, but not smaller to Jim!

Berserk2 wrote on Apr 11^th, 2014 at 9:31pm:

This experience is standard ADC stuff, but I share it because I just heard it from a parishioner last week. Jim's mother died, and while he was mourning, the jeweled music box in the living room unexpectedly began to play on its own.  This had never happened before and it was very meaningful to Jim, who was still grieving over his son's suicide.  The music box had been given to Jim as a Christmas present from his Mom; so the synchronicity was interpreted as a  reassuring message from his recently deceased Mom.

Don. This is one of the most, usually, 'dramatized', and typical episodes in which Christian, self-created, sub-conscious emotional imagery people, in which the originator seeks Love and Compassion for their dysfunctional and abusive childhood and teenage hurt...Blessings and Love in Christ   Carl

Berserk2 wrote on Apr 11^th, 2014 at 9:31pm:

This experience is standard ADC stuff, but I share it because I just heard it from a parishioner last week. Jim's mother died, and while he was mourning, the jeweled music box in the living room unexpectedly began to play on its own.  This had never happened before and it was very meaningful to Jim, who was still grieving over his son's suicide.  The music box had been given to Jim as a Christmas present from his Mom; so the synchronicity was interpreted as a  reassuring message from his recently deceased Mom.

And Don! Usually, we have a spinning ballerina on a glass surface, with classical music playing in its chimed-pianola type inner workings...This 'scenario' has been written in many emotional fictional books and movies..At least, try to be original next time! Blessings and Love in Christ. Carl   

Carl:

Why do you get so much pleasure in being mean to others? Perhaps there is a better way.

You're just being sarcastic when you say "Blessings and Love in Christ." Right?

recoverer,


carl is revealing his own desperation to trivialize any confirmation of the afterlife, regardless of how irrational it is for him to dismiss eyewitness testimony from those he doesn't eve know.  That way, he can keep his philosophical horizons narrow and insipid.  In fact, Jim's ADC ignited a fresh spiritual quest that lifted him out of his depression and cynicism resulting from his son's suicide.   

Mind and spirit are real.  Love is real.  Jim's interpretation of a reassuring message is the point of it all.  You want to see proof in the physical world of that which is beyond physical phenomenon.  If all that is real, is all you can see/touch/see/or hear, then what restricted beliefs we have. 

Carl signs his posts with Blessings and Love in Christ.  Was it not Christ who encouraged faith and belief in that which can not see or touch?  When he healed, the ill person had to believe, that even touching his garment would heal them.  According to the NT, JC then looked at the person and said "go, now; your faith has made you whole."  Faith in love, and God and spirit - unseen, unsubstantiated in a purely physical world.  The faith in things unseen yet believed. 

So yes, you can rationalize that the synchronicity of the music box was a coincidence.  But to Jim it had meaning.  For him there was a confident knowing that there was a message there.  That confidence and faith began to heal him in his grief, in a manner no different from what JC was referring to.  Is this a verification in the physical world?  Perhaps, but it is weak evidence at least just on a physical world basis.  Nevertheless, it worked for Jim. 

M

Carl, I think you've made your point that you regard such things as 'flim-flam': wishful and delusional thinking, deriving perhaps from some unmet childhood need; but what would you consider to be real, undeniable evidence? Or do you set the bar of evidence so high that nothing could ever reach its standards and threaten your worldview...

In my view nothing we can read, or study, not reading every book ever published, not a chat with Jesus Christ Himself, can change our beliefs about things in the Great Unknown.  Only our own direct experience can sometimes have enough power to open our awareness beyond its belief-blocked perception.

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

I agree that nothing beats direct personal experience but isn't it a bit of a 'chicken and egg' situation when entrenched beliefs block the experience which in turn reinforces the entrenched beliefs etc.? Might it not be the case that the reading or study 'primes the pump' to perception just enough to make the experience possible which in turn really changes the belief?

This subject came up a while ago, but related to what Bruce said on his last post, I have two friends that know me to be sane and trustworthy, yet despite some of the experiences I told them about, they still doubt the existence of the Spirit World because of a lack of their own experience.

Regarding the chicken or egg coming first, I believe it is a matter of having an open mind and allowing yourself to find out in some way. As long as you are free to discern the evidence that is presented to you, why be afraid of learning something that contradicts your current beliefs?

heisenberg69 wrote on Apr 15^th, 2014 at 2:29pm:

Might it not be the case that the reading or study 'primes the pump' to perception?

Heisenburg69,

I agree, reading and studying can be part of the process leading to belief-changing experience.

The "chicken and egg" can be a tough one to get around, but in my experience there is a way.  It turns out that just placing intent to "have experiences that conflict with my beliefs" can do it.  It asks our Helpers to guide us to a path of belief challenging experiences.  Lots of those little "window of opportunity experiences."  The story of "Grandma and the Skunk" from my second book is an example of that kind o experience.

Thanks for the thought provoker.

Bruce 

Berserk2 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2014 at 1:55pm:

recoverer, carl is revealing his own desperation to trivialize any confirmation of the afterlife, regardless of how irrational it is for him to dismiss eyewitness testimony from those he doesn't eve know.  That way, he can keep his philosophical horizons narrow and insipid.  In fact, Jim's ADC ignited a fresh spiritual quest that lifted him out of his depression and cynicism resulting from his son's suicide.

I just wondered why Don's "melodramatic music box revelation", which has been previously seen in so many "fictional episodes in many books, TV series, and movies, mostly TV movies." added here? ..Why not have the author-person of this above 'revelation', log on here and verify it?!

You know, and I know, this is not going to happen!!!..Quote from you: " In fact, Jim's ADC ignited a fresh spiritual quest that lifted him out of his depression and cynicism resulting from his son's suicide.   [/quote]

Is your past girlfriends suicide, a mental and emotional unresolved(sub-conscious)catalyst for these above posts of yours? ...I'm sorry, and much apologies..Blessings and Love in Christ   Carl         

Bruce and Recoverer,

I think that those are valuable tools but I guess that those methods require some receptiveness to begin with: a real 'Richard Dawkins' type wouldn't accept the reality of helpers to place the intent with in the first instance! However the kind of peer-reviewed stuff coming out of Windbridge and the Stephen Braude study of physical mediumship I placed in another thread maybe, just maybe grease the cogs a little for confirmed (but honest) sceptics. I understand that most people on this site are way beyond needing or wanting those types of validations but other people, particularly in the scientific or technological fields may not be. I don't really see the personal direct experience methods and academic studies as competing with each other- just maybe aimed at people at different parts of the journey...

Regarding people on this site, Bruce wrote in his books that it took a while for him to be convinced that he was having spiritiual experiences that were real.

I also found that it can take time to get over one's old way of thinking. When I would have an experience it would seem real, but afterwards my old way of thinking would cause me to have doubt.

After a while all of the pieces of the puzzle fit together in a way where I became certain of what I was experiencing non-physically.

The same type of learning process takes place in this World. Consider a newborn baby. This baby's Mom keeps visiting this baby yet at first it doesn't know that this lady is its Mom. It isn't until it has a chance to make use of its abilit to remember and learn that it becomes certain that this lady is its Mom.

To some extent the same is true when making contact with the Spirit World. A person might need time in order to become certain of what is taking place.

This can be so even if one had an experience (s) where one was certain of the reality of what took place as it occured.

Heck, there are some spirits that need time in order to determine that they are no longer inhabiting a physical body. Perhaps Dawkins will be confused after his body dies.



heisenberg69 wrote on Apr 16^th, 2014 at 3:29am:

Bruce and Recoverer, I think that those are valuable tools but I guess that those methods require some receptiveness to begin with: a real 'Richard Dawkins' type wouldn't accept the reality of helpers to place the intent with in the first instance! However the kind of peer-reviewed stuff coming out of Windbridge and the Stephen Braunde study of physical mediumship I placed in another thread maybe, just maybe grease the cogs a little for confirmed (but honest) sceptics. I understand that most people on this site are way beyond needing or wanting those types of validations but other people, particularly in the scientific or technological fields may not be. I don't really see the personal direct experience methods and academic studies as competing with each other- just maybe aimed at people at different parts of the journey...

'Heck, there are some spirits that need time in order to determine that they are no longer inhabiting a physical body. Perhaps Dawkins will be confused after his body dies.'


A lot of hard-headed scientist types have changed their minds after reviewing the evidence (e.g.Gary Schwartz, Pim Van Lommel etc.) but with Mr Dawkins it would be different because he has a reputation to maintain as a leader of the so-called 'brights' i.e. atheistic humanists - it would be the finish of his career as it exists now; quite some belief system crash!

Right, Dawkins probably has a lot invested into his belief system.

God forbid that he would have to some day say, "I was wrong." ;)

Disconnecting from a body can be a belief system crash for even the most light-headed; disengaging from several of the many "truths" that were Truths on Earth. Right is right, right? Right.

Carl, what's with your rude comments followed by a fake apology and your further fake blessings...? I'm bored by you now.



carl wrote on Apr 16^th, 2014 at 12:34am:

Berserk2 wrote on Apr 12th, 2014 at 1:55pm: recoverer, carl is revealing his own desperation to trivialize any confirmation of the afterlife, regardless of how irrational it is for him to dismiss eyewitness testimony from those he doesn't eve know.  That way, he can keep his philosophical horizons narrow and insipid.  In fact, Jim's ADC ignited a fresh spiritual quest that lifted him out of his depression and cynicism resulting from his son's suicide.    I just wondered why Don's "melodramatic music box revelation", which has been previously seen in so many "fictional episodes in many books, TV series, and movies, mostly TV movies." added here? ..Why not have the author-person of this above 'revelation', log on here and verify it?! You know, and I know, this is not going to happen!!!..Quote from you: " In fact, Jim's ADC ignited a fresh spiritual quest that lifted him out of his depression and cynicism resulting from his son's suicide.

Is your past girlfriends suicide, a mental and emotional unresolved(sub-conscious)catalyst for these above posts of yours? ...I'm sorry, and much apologies..Blessings and Love in Christ   Carl         
[/quote]

Carl is expressing his fear that if paranormal events suggestive of afterlife contact really do happen, then his whole rigid world is painfully shattered.  I recently hosted a guy who has studied with Tibetan adepts and the best that Esalen and other New Age thought has to offer.  He believes spectacular paranormal experiences are commonplace, but he thinks it absurd to consider that any experiences indicate an afterlife; for him, they just reveal the interconnectedness of all minds.  So he couldn't even begin to wrap his mind around Leonard's contact with his truck-driving dead son. 

True freedom and the thrill of breakthrough discoveries awaits those who are honest enough to acknowledge the meaning and reality of such experiences to the people who have them.  True, these people might be self-deluded; or they might be misinterpreting what they experience.  But fact and interpretation are always inseparable in the realm of experience. 

Many fundamentalists have NDEs which thoroughly confirm their narrow theological perspectives.  In my view, Nanci Denison's NDE is equally biased by her New Age perspectives.  But none of these NDEs are simply bogus; rather, they illustrate that the Truth, whatever it is, is easily reshaped to fit the expectations of many. 

That is why Colton Burpo's NDE at age 4 is so supremely more evidential in my view than any recent NDEs.  His verifications (meeting his sister who died in "Mommy's tummy meeting the grandfather he never met and learning verifiable new details about his Dad's life) are astounding because he had no prior awareness of these people.  But his parents' resulting faith crisis is telling because much of Colton's vision of heaven clashes with theological stereotypes and even suggests archetypal imagery adapted to the NDEr's needs.  I look forward to the movie based on "Heaven is for Real." 

What seems clear to me is this: dead spirits find it hard to get our attention, and so, seek all sorts of unconventional ways to make contct: lucid dream images, weighted down mattresses, stopped clocks, disembodied voices, rearranged furniture, characteristic odors, music boxes, even occasionally Ouija boards. 

Perhaps the most telling example of the problem of ADC contact is William James' fulfillment of his promise to contact James Hyslop if he died first.  It took a year before a couple in Ireland contacted Hyslop in America with a meaningful message from WJ: "Remember the red pyjamas."    The delay and distant communicators suggests WJ tried all sorts of ways to initiate contact before he succeeded.   

Hi Don,

Thanks for this thread. 

You said:  "But none of these NDEs are simply bogus; rather, they illustrate that the Truth, whatever it is, is easily reshaped to fit the expectations of many. "

It seems that in your quest for spiritual answers, you have an assumption that there is an objective reproducible truth that is the one true path, but that this truth may be reshaped due to someone's belief system.  But what if the nature of consciousness, unbound by a physical body is such that there are a myriad of interpretations of heaven and that the basic truth - that of love manifest by God in everything is the only objective truth that there is?

What if Colton chose to access the data stream of his family in an expanded awareness, while out of body?  Do these physical verifications confirm his interpretation of heaven as true for all?  Colton's father was a pastor.  The body doubtless was being taught about God, in a rudimentary way at the age of 4.  Yet not in a scholarly didactic.  Christian scholarly criticism of Colton's experience centers, (as I read it) on contradictions and inconsistencies from doctrine. 

What if Colton's NDE is equally valid to Nanci's, but each filtered their experience through their belief systems and ability to interpret what they saw/felt?  Consciousness unbound can choose many options.  Love and intent seem to open a range of choices.  This is why some tend to focus on verifications and others seem to take an esoteric trip through heaven.  What is your intent?  Intent seems to manifest instantly both to manifest things (Nanci reports manifesting a tunnel by thinking of it, and then an idyllic pasture, etc.) and to examine data streams that are available. 

In another thread, I used the example of a Kindle reader, in that to read a text, one can look at it from different perspectives and times.  I believe this is possible when we shed our body too; that we can pick a data stream, be it our family history, our past or potential future, given probabilities, and follow that data stream in any direction we choose. 

Did you know that Nanci made several discoveries along those lines, which were then born out in the real world?  It does not mean that her version of heaven is more accurate or "truthful" than Colton's, to my mind.

Yes, I do believe that the laws of order and entropy would imply that there is some structure to higher levels of consciousness.  But the nature of understanding and interpretation of data means to me that no one person's version of heaven is the "true version."  As the NT says: "there are many rooms in my father's house" (John 14:2).

Matthew

Hi Don,

Thanks for this thread. 

You said:  "But none of these NDEs are simply bogus; rather, they illustrate that the Truth, whatever it is, is easily reshaped to fit the expectations of many. "

It seems that in your quest for spiritual answers, you have an assumption that there is an objective reproducible truth that is the one true path, but that this truth may be reshaped due to someone's belief system.  But what if the nature of consciousness, unbound by a physical body is such that there are a myriad of interpretations of heaven and that the basic truth - that of love manifest by God in everything is the only objective truth that there is?

What if Colton chose to access the data stream of his family in an expanded awareness, while out of body?  Do these physical verifications confirm his interpretation of heaven as true for all?  Colton's father was a pastor.  The body doubtless was being taught about God, in a rudimentary way at the age of 4.  Yet not in a scholarly didactic.  Christian scholarly criticism of Colton's experience centers, (as I read it) on contradictions and inconsistencies from doctrine. 

What if Colton's NDE is equally valid to Nanci's, but each filtered their experience through their belief systems and ability to interpret what they saw/felt?  Consciousness unbound can choose many options.  Love and intent seem to open a range of choices.  This is why some tend to focus on verifications and others seem to take an esoteric trip through heaven.  What is your intent?  Intent seems to manifest instantly both to manifest things (Nanci reports manifesting a tunnel by thinking of it, and then an idyllic pasture, etc.) and to examine data streams that are available. 

In another thread, I used the example of a Kindle reader, in that to read a text, one can look at it from different perspectives and times.  I believe this is possible when we shed our body too; that we can pick a data stream, be it our family history, our past or potential future, given probabilities, and follow that data stream in any direction we choose. 

Did you know that Nanci made several discoveries along those lines, which were then born out in the real world?  It does not mean that her version of heaven is more accurate or "truthful" than Colton's, to my mind.

Yes, I do believe that the laws of order and entropy would imply that there is some structure to higher levels of consciousness.  But the nature of understanding and interpretation of data means to me that no one person's version of heaven is the "true version."  As the NT says: "there are many rooms in my father's house" (John 14:2).

Matthew

If Colton had an NDE like Dannison, his father might've had a problem with it (considering his religious background).

Therefore, even if Colton was open to having an experience that was beyond what his father would expect/accept, the beings who were with him might've been smart enough to "not" provide him with such an experience.

If Colton had a Dannision like experience, some Christians would consider the part of the Bible that says a demon can imitate a being of light and conclude that Colton was fooled by a Demon.

If they instead considered Jesus' statement regarding knowing them by their fruits, they might figure that any being who radiates perfect unconditional love has good fruits and isn't a demon, even it enables a person to have an NDE that doesn't precisely match up with the Bible.

In a way I found it troubling that an NDE that is more fundamentalist than many others gets so much attention. To an extent where a movie was made.

But perhaps this is what some fundamentalists need to become free from a fear-based belief system. They first need to be introduced to NDEs by an experience that matches up with their pre-conceptions. Perhaps such acceptance might help them open up to considering what other NDEs say. Of course this can be difficult if one is overly influenced by a fear-based belief system.

I don't mind so much that Colton spoke of seeing a dragon like devil because I believe unfriendly beings exist. But it bugs me that he was concerned about whether a man died without accepting Jesus first.

Some people believe this way because they are afraid not to because if they don't they will supposedly be sent to hell for all eternity.

Certainly things are set up in a more wise, loving and sensible way. But how will people find such a way if fear prevents them from doing so?

I once had a dream where I was in a classroom with a number of people. We were trying to figure out how to make this World a better place. I said "perhaps we should invite some Christian fundamentalist leaders to this meeting." Suddenly Jesus was there and he angrilly said, "Impossible!"

The sense I got from this is that fundamentalists aren't going to help this World become a better place with their way of thinking. Considering how long many of them have been around, this seems true.

I don't know, but I doubt that Jesus appreciates it when fundamentalists speak of him in the way they do.  His life wasn't about a fear-based belief system. I figure that Jesus can tell the difference between a heart that radiates love and a heart that radiates fear.

I don't believe it is possible to completely love something if to some degree you fear it.

Albert

recoverer wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2014 at 2:27pm:

If Colton had an NDE like Dannison, his father might've had a problem with it (considering his religious background). Therefore, even if Colton was open to having an experience that was beyond what his father would expect/accept, the beings who were with him might've been smart enough to "not" provide him with such an experience. If Colton had a Dannision like experience, some Christians would consider the part of the Bible that says a demon can imitate a being of light and conclude that Colton was fooled by a Demon. If they instead considered Jesus' statement regarding knowing them by their fruits, they might figure that any being who radiates perfect unconditional love has good fruits and isn't a demon, even it enables a person to have an NDE that doesn't precisely match up with the Bible. In a way I found it troubling that an NDE that is more fundamentalist than many others gets so much attention. To an extent where a movie was made. But perhaps this is what some fundamentalists need in order to become free from a fear-based belief system. They first need to be introduced to NDEs by an experience that matches up with their pre-conceptions. Perhaps such acceptance might help them open up to considering what other NDEs say. Of course this can be difficult if one is overly influenced by a fear-based belief system. I don't mind so much that Colton spoke of seeing a dragon like devil because I believe unfriendly beings exist. But it bugs me that he was concerned about whether a man died without accepting Jesus first. Some people believe this way because they are afraid not to because if they don't they will supposedly be sent to hell for all eternity. Certainly things are set up in a more wise, loving and sensible way. But how will people find such a way if fear prevents them from doing so? I once had a dream where I was in a classroom with a number of people. We were trying to figure out how to make this World a better place. I said "perhaps we should invite some Christian fundamentalist leaders to this meeting." Suddenly Jesus was there and he angrilly said, "Impossible!" The sense I got from this is that fundamentalists aren't going to help this World become a better place with their way of thinking. Considering how long many of them have been around, this seems true. I don't know, but I doubt that Jesus appreciates it when fundamentalists speak of him in the way they do.  His life wasn't about a fear-based belief system. I figure that Jesus can tell the difference between a heart that radiates love and a heart that radiates fear. I don't believe it is possible to completely love something if to some degree you fear it. Albert

Argh, the edit button didn't work again.

I've been re-reading ES trying to find what if anything he had to say about ADCs.  So far no luck.  But considering the sheer volume of his material, it's possible somewhere in his vast writings there's a mention or two about it.

Btw I also don't find any references to retrievals.  He indicates that we all go directly to the World of Spirits when we did, and then go to heaven or hell depending entirely on the nature of our love. 

And he also states that our nature on earth mirrors our nature in the spiritual world implying that we co-exist in both places.  Same thing Newton and others said.  And moreover, that nature is not subject to change...it is what it is.  Essentially immutable.

Seems like a pretty stark picture.  Don't see where redemption or grace comes into ES' writings.

R

That's one of the reasons I couldn't fully accept what Emanuel wrote. At times he says things that imply that for some Souls redemption is hard to obtain, if at all.

I found it odd that he wrote about  a bad Soul being thrown into a lower realm head first. 


rondele wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2014 at 7:31pm:

I've been re-reading ES trying to find what if anything he had to say about ADCs.  So far no luck.  But considering the sheer volume of his material, it's possible somewhere in his vast writings there's a mention or two about it. Btw I also don't find any references to retrievals.  He indicates that we all go directly to the World of Spirits when we did, and then go to heaven or hell depending entirely on the nature of our love.  And he also states that our nature on earth mirrors our nature in the spiritual world implying that we co-exist in both places.  Same thing Newton and others said.  And moreover, that nature is not subject to change...it is what it is.  Essentially immutable. Seems like a pretty stark picture.  Don't see where redemption or grace comes into ES' writings. R

Nothing is immutable other than love.  I think we see this in lessons in life in the physical world; everything is born, flourishes and dies.  Everything evolves in one way or another.  Tom Campbell describes this as the law of evolution working both in the physical world and on a spiritual level; that of consciousness systems always evolving to decrease entropy (randomness) thereby increasing organization and function. 

I don't think ES was talking of a stark afterlife where we were doomed to stagnation at whatever stage of growth we had.  He talks of many souls being "open to instruction," which implies a continuing evolution of spirit.  For those not open to instruction, yes, he did imply that some might end up willingly in a restricted belief system (hell), but he really did not go into their long term fate in detail (that I am aware of). 

Consciousness runs on intent causing manifestation, and all of this is based on free will.  Anyone who stays in one region of consciousness does so as long as it suits them, and as long as they maintain the barriers to thought (belief system) that keeps them there.  There are no external locks on the doors managed by outside forces.  The gates of hell are locked from the inside (whether the person is aware of this or not). 

Roger, my take on ES's speaking of an unchangeable "nature" to all of us, is our general "love."  I may have a love that seeks my to uncover mysteries.  Another may have a love of entertaining others, a love of music, a love of animals, etc.  These core-loves likely carry over and stay part of us, but do not imply that we do not continue to evolve in spirit, or are somehow forbidden from heaven/spiritual advancement by our true nature.  Rather that we take with us our insight and talents which are unique to us, and these are a part of us always.  At least that is my take on what ES was talking about. 

Matthew

Interesting posts on this thread!

Don, much of what you're saying in your last post makes a lot of sense.  I do think the experiences of not only NDErs, but also OOBErs have much to do with the individual's personal beliefs and expectations.  There's also another aspect to the books that are written and that is they are not necessarily the author's words entirely, but are edited, even modified to suit the publisher's thought based on the anticipated sales. 

My daughter's an editor and she's often told me how some books are practically rewritten to suit the publisher.  Just last weekend she told me how most of what an author wrote in a book doesn't even make sense, so she had to do a complete rewrite of the book including the table of contents.  A new age book publisher will likely slant any discourse in the direction of new age thought, as would a Christian book publisher.  They write for their known audiences.  This makes me wonder how much control a publisher has over, not only an author's books, but also what they talk about at their speaking engagements, workshops, movies, etc.  And how much a book may be altered from the author's actual experience when something like that is done.  Not that a book would be overly embellished to the point of exaggeration, but who knows how much of the content was polished in ways that differ from the author's own description.  This also makes me wonder about ES works and how much differs through translation as well.

Kathy

Kathy:

That's interesting about the publishing. After I wrote my books I had to consider whether to find a publisher or self publish. For numerous reasons including the possibility of the below I decided to not try to find a publisher.

Chances are that a publisher wouldn't want to publish my books. They don't have any money making potential.

I don't know, but Nanci doesn't seem like a person who would allow a publisher to tell her what to write. I'm not saying that you were speaking of her specifically.




Lights of Love wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 11:03am:

Interesting posts on this thread! Don, much of what you're saying in your last post makes a lot of sense.  I do think the experiences of not only NDErs, but also OOBErs have much to do with the individual's personal beliefs and expectations.  There's also another aspect to the books that are written and that is they are not necessarily the author's words entirely, but are edited, even modified to suit the publisher's thought based on the anticipated sales.  My daughter's an editor and she's often told me how some books are practically rewritten to suit the publisher.  Just last weekend she told me how most of what an author wrote in a book doesn't even make sense, so she had to do a complete rewrite of the book including the table of contents.  A new age book publisher will likely slant any discourse in the direction of new age thought, as would a Christian book publisher.  They write for their known audiences.  This makes me wonder how much control a publisher has over, not only an author's books, but also what they talk about at their speaking engagements, workshops, movies, etc.  And how much a book may be altered from the author's actual experience when something like that is done.  Not that a book would be overly embellished to the point of exaggeration, but who knows how much of the content was polished in ways that differ from the author's own description.  This also makes me wonder about ES works and how much differs through translation as well. Kathy

Quote:

I don't know, but Nanci doesn't seem like a person who would allow a publisher to tell her what to write. I'm not saying that you were speaking of her specifically.

Correct.  I wasn't speaking of Nanci specifically, but I'd include her as a possibility because at least according to my kid, who's worked in this field for nearly 20 years now, if a new author wants a book deal, the publisher's terms are the way it will be, unless of course the author is well known and established, then some negociation would be possible.  I suppose it could depend on the publisher as well, but aren't they all in it to sell books?

K

Thank you for the clarification.


Lights of Love wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 1:28pm:

Quote: I don't know, but Nanci doesn't seem like a person who would allow a publisher to tell her what to write. I'm not saying that you were speaking of her specifically. Correct.  I wasn't speaking of Nanci specifically, but I'd include her as a possibility because at least according to my kid, who's worked in this field for nearly 20 years now, if a new author wants a book deal, the publisher's terms are the way it will be, unless of course the author is well known and established, then some negociation would be possible.  I suppose it could depend on the publisher as well, but aren't they all in it to sell books? K

As the editor of Skeptics Magazine, Michael Schermer is arguably the most familiar American spokesmen for skepticism.  But his skepticism was rocked to its core by a paranormal wedding day experience that is similar to Jim's Music Box synchronicity.  Read Schermer's own account below:

http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/michael-shermer-has-a-paranormal-experience.1510/

This comment is a follow-up to skeptic Michael Schermer's paranormal experience on his wedding day.  One of the unexpected aspects of Kathryn Kuhlman's healing meetings in the LA Shrine Auditorium was the fact that skeptics present often received the greatest healings.  For example, one skeptic brought his deformed young son to her meeting and received dematerialized hips in that meeting, so that he now could walk for the first time.  The skeptical father was converted through that miracle.