Hi All,

These videos really amazed me, I am not trying to promote Christianity with them, just posting them for the interest of the forum members.

Note they are all very short only a few minutes at most, please look and listen, you might be as amazed as I was!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXM960QtnXQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoRtVhSpVUA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoRtVhSpVUA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoFd855gowI

Alan,

Interesting, but this should be in either the Off Topic or the Spiritual Healing section of the forum.  I have always been impressed with the power of will/intent to heal, when coupled with belief.  You have chosen examples of christian healings.  Yet there are healing shrines in India, across Asia and in most cultures.  So I think it is a testament to the power of prayer and mind to connect with God and manifest in the realm of health and healing.    


Best,

Matthew

Impressive.

I don't mind promoting Christianity.

These cases, if they be true as presented, may be considered testament to the power of extremely polarising both the mind and the heart through the landmarks of Christ and Satan.

Fundamentalism, with its innate stark contrast and extreme opposite concepts, stretches both mind and heart, and aligns them at the better end of their possible reach. Contrast clarifies. And the concept of extreme opposing directions enables precise navigation in any direction. Without that contrast and those cardinal north-south references, scope and range diminish and direction finding becomes vague and imprecise.   

This is why - even though some may think me an occult/mystic who believes in meditation, astral travel, past lives, second sight and so on - I also first and foremost believe in the power of fundamental Christianity with all its stark extremes. When the extremes are appreciated, then what lies anywhere between them is easy to comprehend, but what is outside of our extreme comprehensions of our mind and heart, we have no access to. People can only venture, work and operate in mind and heart within the boundaries of the extremes they fathom and appreciate, not outside of them. Bringing the forces of the extremes to bear upon a precise point is power. Underneath the potent occultist (for want of a better word) is a fundamentalist Christian. No other religion has further reaching more intense extremes of mind and heart, and hence more scope, precision and power than does Christianity. Of course individuals are free to disbelieve that, or even resent it.  


crossbow

DocM wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 2:14pm:

Alan, Interesting, but this should be in either the Off Topic or the Spiritual Healing section of the forum.  I have always been impressed with the power of will/intent to heal, when coupled with belief.  You have chosen examples of christian healings.  Yet there are healing shrines in India, across Asia and in most cultures.  So I think it is a testament to the power of prayer and mind to connect with God and manifest in the realm of health and healing.     Best, Matthew

Like I stated Matthew, I was not trying to promote Christianity by posting those interesting videos. Something really odd is taking place around this person , namely TB Joshua of Nigeria.

I am also interested in healing from other sources, do you have any links to them?. The ones I posted are amongst the most impressive I have ever seen. As a medical Doctor Matthew you would be better at deciding if what is happening in those videos is supernatural or if something more mundane is the answer ?

Below is another extreme example that simply baffles me, note it is only 2 or so minutes long, so please take the time to look at it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7--DTYJU5xM

Hi Alan,

I could fill up a thread with examples of miraculous healing shrines from numerous ethnic groups and religions.  I don't see the point, as it speaks to the truth about the human condition - that thought coupled with conviction (true belief) can manifest what appear to be miracles in the physical world.  Jesus told his disciples they could go out and do what he did vis-a-vis healings.  I do not believe any single religion holds the only key to miracles; our nature is not physical - we are spirits encased in flesh, and thought can be manifest in the real world. 

In any event, here are a few links from some popular healing shrines.  The fact that they are non-christian, and that there are thousands of other shrines out there with miraculous healings should help people understand that healing comes from spirit, and is not copyrighted to a particular person or group.  Don on this board, a devout christian, cites a famous NDE of a christian who asks what the "right" religion is for God.  The answer "the one which brings you closest to God (love)." 

There is a link to an ancient healing temple devoted to the God Shiva in India, in which miraculous healings have occurred:

http://www.hinduismtoday.com/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=1325

A shrine in Thatta has shown miraculous healings - it appears to be arabic in origin, although one of the locals talks of praying to Baba and witnessing the healings:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/607620/healing-powers-shrines-in-thatta-beckon-those-who-believe

By the way Alan, in that last video you linked, the woman clearly has a brown paste covering her body.  I saw no evidence that video provided any medical miracle that could not be achieved with either conventional or herbal folklore treatments (I suspect the brown paste was something deliberately applied). 

When JC heals people in the New Testament, he says "go now, your faith has made you whole."  Notice it is not "my faith has made you whole," but the person's own faith.  If the patient couples belief with the image of healing, they may succeed - though there are multiple physical factors and mental/emotional factors at play in a healing.  It is, however, a way for people to hear that faith can manifest changes into probabilities and real outcomes in our everyday lives.


Matthew

Hi Matthew,

I went to the links you gave and I do accept that miracle healings happen in various placed by people of different faiths, even atheistic healings in fact.

But what sets the healings of TB Joshua apart be it from his faith or the faith of the recipient, is the actual videos of people who are in the process of been healed or whose healing takes place later. It is the actual visual evidence that amazes me.

Cats and dogs can give healing if they want to. They don't give the impression of being omnipotent for someone to hand over their power, then give some of it back to make it seem miraculous and demand bow wow, scrape and meow, in glory of course.

Light polarity and dark polarity are behind the clothing that different representatives are wearing. Devotees of light polarity can accuse you of being selfish and weak. Devotees of dark polarity can accuse you of compassion and weakness. Weak because you refuse to set up camp in their territory. Are you with us, or are you against us, you lukewarm you?

wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 11:38am:

Cats and dogs can give healing if they want to. They don't give the impression of being omnipotent for someone to hand over their power, then give some of it back to make it seem miraculous and demand bow wow, scrape and meow, in glory of course. Light polarity and dark polarity are behind the clothing that different representatives are wearing. Devotees of light polarity can accuse you of being selfish and weak. Devotees of dark polarity can accuse you of compassion and weakness. Weak because you refuse to set up camp in their territory. Are you with us, or are you against us, you lukewarm you?

Like usual you make absolutely no sense at all, I really wonder what you are smoking when you quote his idiotic nonsense?

;D Hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me for posting something something you don't understand.

wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 1:19am:

;D Hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me for posting something something you don't understand.

I forgive you!

Hi Matthew (especially you Matthew) and others!

I would like you to look at this amazing video, could the explanation be the powerful placebo effect or is something else very odd is happening?

I know this is a bit off topic in this sub-forum, but it is the most active one in the forum and felt that many people would be interested. Again I am not trying to promote Christianity just show that the supernatural still happens in this day and age.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Aakvj-HSKw

I think this subject could tie into the idea of "belief systems" and how powerful they can be, here and in the hereafter. As much difficulty I have in watching such videos or believing them to be true, one would only have to witness one such amazing feat to be sure the story would circulate for a long time.

What comes to mind for me is a story I heard quite some time ago, possibly from a near death experience. The teller said that he or she was shown a huge room in the afterlife. It was actually full of human limbs, body parts. It was explained to this person that these were all the healed parts waiting for people on earth to claim, but many of them, this whole storehouse, had not been claimed. It did not go into detail about how one might claim such an item, only that many people did not.

So, it indicates to me that there is a wealth of blessings which we never receive, stored up for us in excess, and somehow we just sometimes miss our ticket out of a situation. I wonder how that happens. It seems like those folks on the other side would like to do more for us than we actually allow here, doesn't it?

Additionally, we have all heard of how people who have disordered mental states which involve more than one personality can exhibit very different physical characteristics, to the point of displaying actual illness in one personality and not in another, along with other observable distinctions.

To me, the most mysterious thing is not that healing occurred.  There are other documented cases.

Instead, it's that the vast majority of people seeking such healing do not get it.

We hear about the isolated cases, and yes they are remarkable and attest to the legitimacy of healing, but not much notice is paid to those where healing did not take place.

Does God play favorites?  Or is there something else that determines the success or failure of healing?  Faith perhaps is a factor, but I'm sure there are others who also have faith. 

Any ideas?

R

rondele wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 12:51pm:

To me, the most mysterious thing is not that healing occurred.  There are other documented cases. Instead, it's that the vast majority of people seeking such healing do not get it. We hear about the isolated cases, and yes they are remarkable and attest to the legitimacy of healing, but not much notice is paid to those where healing did not take place. Does God play favorites?  Or is there something else that determines the success or failure of healing?  Faith perhaps is a factor, but I'm sure there are others who also have faith.  Any ideas? R

What about the power of the "placebo effect" that works on some people and not others?

Or the power of suggestion, which some people are more open to?

Or maybe God by his sovereign will just heals some and not others.?

Roger,

As someone intensely interested in healing, I have some ideas - take them for what you will...

First, a wish or desire for healing is not sufficient to often cause a healing.  Why?  There is no judgement here, and no divine unfairness.  Simply put, spiritual healing occurs when both the healer and the patient, combine strong conviction/belief with the prayer for the healing, and are able to affect probabilities in the real world and manifest a healing.  Probabilities are what they are.  They are tendencies, but various factors may affect a possible or probable outcome.  The physical world has a wide range of energies which can cause confounding variables.  This makes scientific experiments difficult (to control for the variables in order to study one particular phenomenon). 

I would put it to you that spiritual healing suffers from the same interactions with multiple variables.  One of them, on a spiritual level is what Kathy refers to as "cross purpose" thinking (thank you Kathy).  Meaning, the healing is sought after, and the healed state visualized but at the same time, doubt arises and the subconscious template is given a deeper message of "that will never work, I am going to die,(etc.)"   This is not to blame a person for a failed healing (worst thing to think is if I had been strong enough in my faith, then the outcome would have been different).  Just to say that we all wish for things, but at the same time cultivate doubt and negative thoughts too.

The subconscious template responds not to our superficial wishes or thoughts, but to our deepest convictions.  If we say "I want this tumor healed.  I believe it," but we are cultivating the thought "that is impossible,"  the subconscious either gets two commands to manifest different outcomes, or only the negative one sticks for it is coupled to belief.  It is for this reason that many healers try to cultivate the excitement and give thanks for the healing as if it already happened.  The idea being that you manifest the healing when you learn to couple the command to conviction or true belief.  (This is, in my opinion the secret to many types of shamanism, magic, and manifestations in our daily lives in the earth plane). 

The other confounding variables likely have to do with the energy and thoughts of others we interact with, the physical laws related to the illness, and also, possibly any divine plan we are part of in terms of the exit of our earthly life  - though that part I have no experience with myself. 

What is in the best interest for the person?  Well, normally, we all would say "a healing," but under what circumstances is that not true?  I don't know.  If someone has done what they set out to do in the earth plane - if they can better spiritually develop in Focus 27 at a certain stage in their life, does it still make sense to stay in a body on earth?  I don't know.  But it is food for thought.

There are books on spiritual scientific healing - there have been several spiritualist healing movements/schools.  I read an interesting book on the subject by Ernest Holmes called the Science of Mind which I found to be most interesting. 

I think some renowned healers are more free of ego clutter than most of us.  JC had many famous healings, but I always found it interesting that he credited the afflicted person's faith in being the catalyst for the healing "your faith has made you whole."  This may be another factor, wherein, the spiritual healer has believe/conviction in the healing, but the afflicted person does not.  There may be instances where a person's will/intent may trump another's, but I am not aware of how that kind of equation would work...

Matthew

Matthew-

Your post reminded me of something that happened a few years ago that I mentioned on the board at the  time.  It was a mundane thing and I won't go into detail now, but it just might point to the power of the visualization of an event, as if it had already occurred, as being the key to the success or failure of healing.

That requires almost a child-like conviction that is void of negativity or doubt. Most of us, as we age, lose that sense of belief....a small child will accept something as true because he has no reason to expect otherwise. 

Faith is important, but it is usually mixed with doubt or fear that what is wanted might not occur.  Conviction, however, is more powerful, and might be the key to healing.

A child, on Christmas eve, knows Santa Claus will come to his house during the night.  It's not until he's older that he begins to mix a bit of doubt into the equation.  He still wants to believe, but is not quite as sure as he was before.

R

Roger,

Jesus implicitly acknowledges the power of visualization. "I  tell you, whatever you ask for, beieve that you have already received it and it will be yours (Mark 11:24)."  How can you believe something has materialzed already when you see not evidence of it?  By visualizing it as if it were already achieved. 

Jesus also implcitly views the chief problem for healing as the futility of trying to believe.  The very concept of "trying" implies probable failure.  One futile aspect of trying to believe is to ask yourself, "Do I have enough faith?"  Or "How much faith do I really have?"  When we look within to see how much faith we have, the very act of introspection punctures a hole in the soul, and all the faith drains out!  As Jesus puts it, the  tiniest amount of faith can do the job.  In other words, boldly act on the assumption that you have all the faith you need and avoid introspection to assess your faith situation.  For this reason, Jesus uses faith props.  For example, He anoints with oil, applies saliva, or clay, or a mixture of both, lays on hands, etc. to stop people from "trying" and to create a flashpoint for faith to be released through a focus on this loving touch. 

Another of his healing principles is confession and release of grudges.  Once one has told the painful truth about oneself and released grudges (making wrongs right), faith is purged of negative energy that blocks healing.  These are only a few of his healing principles.

Don

I encountered reiki in my youth and signed up for an initiation course but didn't know about healing or chakras/energy systems. Glad the instructor asked me to close the eyes so that the focus was dimmed on the external. Very much noticed warm areas flowing from him aside from his hands and particularly noticed my crown/top of the head which I then sensed as a sort of a camp fire. He didn't tell me about this beforehand nor afterwards. I hoped the course would be worthwhile but didn't trust it to be so, but curious and was paying attention to what was happening.

I attended a local event yesterday where people told parts of their life stories. Some told about varied experiences that reached out and gave turkish massages to minds and emotions before releasing tension with humour. Healing can be as simple as an anchored realization.

Don-

It occurred to me late last night as I was trying to get back to sleep that maybe all this time I had the wrong assumptions about the dynamics of healing.

I just assumed that it was a two way street.  There was the person needing healing, and there was some kind of external force (Jesus, God, other entities from other belief systems, etc) that would provide the healing. If we believed enough in that entity, we would be healed.

But maybe it's really a one-way street.  Maybe we already have what it takes to heal ourselves.  So when we are focusing on some external entity and putting our faith/belief in that direction, we are by definition correspondingly weakening the ability we already possess within our self by implicitly assuming we lack what it takes to accomplish our own healing.

I don't know.  But it was a thought that seemed to resonate within me during the wee hours of the morning.

R

I figure that mental and spiritual health is more important than physical health. Therefore, if one helps with the healing of another, one should make certain that one doesn't push one's beliefs on another.

There may be occasions when a healer receives help from higher powers even though the healer's belief system doesn't accurately represent the truth.

It also possible that beings that don't represent the light might be able to help some healers. At the same time such healers get to push their inaccurate belief systems.

Or in other words, just because a person is able to help heal others, this doesn't mean that this person's belief system is completely accurate. Unfortunately, some people who lack discrimination will make such an association.