Another thing I am wondering is:

If the spiritual realm of focus 27 is so great and grand with lots of free-will choice etc. Why would we ever want to imprison ourselves in the physical world?
Why wouldn't we just stay in the heavenly realms?
And if we wanted to experience a little more limitation, couldnt we just do it from a level like focus 27 for a little while? Instead of a lifetime of limit and lack here?

Hello:

Incarnating in this World is just one of many ways of learning.



warpz wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2013 at 7:39am:

Another thing I am wondering is: If the spiritual realm of focus 27 is so great and grand with lots of free-will choice etc. Why would we ever want to imprison ourselves in the physical world? Why wouldn't we just stay in the heavenly realms? And if we wanted to experience a little more limitation, couldnt we just do it from a level like focus 27 for a little while? Instead of a lifetime of limit and lack here?

Warpz,

Even Heaven can get boring.  Personally, I incarnated here as a vacation from eternity.

Bruce

Bruce Moen wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2013 at 1:08pm:

Warpz, Even Heaven can get boring.  Personally, I incarnated here as a vacation from eternity. Bruce

Hi Bruce. So you have physically incarnated again as a result of a "boring'" part of afterlife heavenly bliss?...I mean this in the best possible way. So, your stroke from ingesting the chemicals and carcinogens from rolling up and smoking 'Three Castles Tobacco', over the years, which you have told us in your posts via the Internet in and from the late 1990's, have nothing to do with your deliberating physical stroke you suffered later on and is still continuing!? OK. I hope your above post in which you mentioned that this is a vacation from the boredom, from Afterlife Eternity, is fulfilling to your mental and physical agenda. Blessings and Love. Carl and Family.    

    

Carl-

The biggest mistake was not his smoking, it was restoring your suspension.

Your entire purpose is to insult other posters and the host of the board with sarcasm and rudeness.  You add nothing of substance.

You consistently ignore the guidelines.  Here's hoping this will be the last post from you.

r

Why if you DON'T want to incarnate? Do you actually can choose not to come back?

According to some "near death" experiences which I have read, some people return from theirs with memories of having reached a certain location in which they realized that they must come back to their earthly existence. It varies whether people are told they must come back or whether they have some choice in the matter. Some people have recorded that they actually know at that point specific facts about what their future lives would be like here if they returned. For instance they are given knowledge of their loved ones who would be better off if they stayed. Even information about future children they will have. That knowledge influenced how they felt. Sometimes they come right back after realizing that they want to be here for their loved ones.

Many near death experiencers seem to have a kind of "contract" to be here. I would have to guess that there are many many reasons why people incarnate here, and that much of it has to do with agreements made in the spirit world ahead of time. Whether our plans are carried out as we originally intend them to seems to vary. So, from this kind of information, I feel fairly confident that we have choices in the afterlife.

That is a good answer. I believe you can work during this lifetime to not come back to Earth/reincarnate here again. You can die consciously.
Anyway, I wonder if there's a way of knowing if a person that passed will reincarnate again here on planet Earth.

Hello karuna2000,

Years ago I was actually teed off about having to be here in this life and was anxious to hold someone accountable someday when I kicked the bucket ::). Once I started using Bruce's Focused Attention techniques I eventually realized that there wasn't anyone to blame--it had been my decision all along and would always be my decision. When we're out of or over with a life experience and can regain our bigger picture, we can remember more easily why we chose to be here in the first place. And it's my opinion that we're here not out of any negative or fallen-from-perfection sinful behavior, but because our very nature demands adventure and discovery. So we keep creating, to explore and learn new things.

Just my thoughts :).

Much love,

Ginny

Carl--why are you making an ass of yourself? Bullying and childish attacks don't upset Bruce.

Ginny,

If bullying and childish attacks don't upset Bruce, why do you respond with "you're making an ass out of yourself"? What category does your question to Carl fall into? I'm also learning new things here. My very nature demands adventure and discovery. I keep on creating, to explore and learn new things.

Yeah Ginny, you  could have phrased it in a more adult way. Like "Carl, you're making an ice-hole of yourself. Cool it."   Now to bring the thread back to "on-topic"; a poem illustrating voluntary re-birth: " I shot an arrow in the air, it fell to earth I know not where".... And a poem illustrating the difference between voluntary and involuntary rebirth: "Time flies like a arrow. Fruit flies like a banana".....  now back to our regular programming.

Griffin, it's been and still is on topic. There's no substitute for experience, good or bad. If Carl is to be an ice-hole, both you and Ginny have joined the club, yet you two refer to the member cards as frozen assets. Ginny's do as I say and not as I do does make for the icing on the cake.

If memory serves me, both Bob and Bruce described a re-entry station. A clue to the operation is that a disk/the bigger self extend a lot of simultaneous incarnations into this world without "help". There's no real need for an incarnation finished with the earthly walk to go back again. But re-packaging is also an experience some disks choose to have for their extensions. Personally, not for me, nor a tunnel of light. It's easy to scan someone for mental images of close ones and present them to incarnations. There's also no real need for a tunnel to bring you anywhere in the astral, it done by the use of thought of the experiencer. Light trap is another word for it. Anyone who can astral focus can check the re-entry station and light tunnel phenomenon and make up their own minds.

Hi, All,

I think one of the reasons we may want to reincarnate is for the lessons we can learn while in body.  I think one of the greatest lessons all of us can learn is how to be kind.  It is very hard to be kind to those we dislike.  It takes practice, and where better to practice than with each other right here.

You guys are such great teachers.  Thank you.
Sending you love,
T'ressa

wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 11:58am:

Griffin, it's been and still is on topic. There's no substitute for experience, good or bad. If Carl is to be an ice-hole, both you and Ginny have joined the club, yet you two refer to the member cards as eVfrozen assets. Ginny's do as I say and not as I do does make for the icing on the cake. If memory serves me, both Bob and Bruce described a re-entry station. A clue to the operation is that a disk/the bigger self extend a lot of simultaneous incarnations into this world without "help". There's no real need for an incarnation finished with the earthly walk to go back again. But re-packaging is also an experience some disks choose to have for their extensions. Personally, not for me, nor a tunnel of light. It's easy to scan someone for mental images of close ones and present them to incarnations. There's also no real need for a tunnel to bring you anywhere in the astral, it done by the use of thought of the experiencer. Light trap is another word for it. Anyone who can astral focus can check the re-entry station and light tunnel phenomenon and make up their own minds.

"Bob".....  Thanks man. To respond mostly seriously to a post that includes the phrase  "Fruit flies like a banana" shows a grave intention on your part. . Bravo!   Sometimes the afterlife is ultra-serious business. I truly appreciate your thoughts on experiencing the in-between.... wish you'd write more on that.

Well, Griffin, the topic may be serious but the intention isn't grave. I think I've said enough. I know of several others who have had similar observations. To my surprise, the tunnel popped up in a blog some days ago. I'm not into all her posts, but there are some interesting ones:

http://goo.gl/MF3BfR

What, you can let go of your chakras? I don't even necessarily pay attention to my chakras, but this woman is saying you can totally let go of them? Some interesting stuff.

And, skip the white light to skip the 4th dimension to go straight to the 5th? In other words, skip the belief system territories and go to some other elevated level, skip your friends and relatives and make new friends in the 5th dimension? Wow. Would anyone really want to do that, to just skip over that part of the afterlife experience?

And, she makes it sound like if you go to your "reward" after this life that you will automatically get sucked back into this earth dimension through reincarnation. To me, that sounds like more "fear" talk. Be afraid, very afraid. Just kidding.

But, she seriously says, don't go into the light, stop and decide where you want to go? Are you kidding me? From what people describe in their near death experiences, a lot happens in an instant. And an instant can become an eon.

How the heck can she just state that this and that is true like that? Aren't we all individuals? Aren't we all going to have an experience that is tailor made for us?

If we get lost, we are found. Maybe that's something we need to experience. At least, there is a lot of joy in that.

I guess I just find this kind of information from that link confusing, along with other kinds of information which suggests to people that the white light is something to be avoided, that it is some kind of soul trap. As well as the idea that there might be those on the other side who pretend to be loved ones...

I don't really find that to be supported by the near death stories I have read. It is upsetting to think that people might be forced to return to the earth, no matter what condition it or its people are in. It causes me to wonder, what, is the other side too crowded that people "must" return to earth and can't simply advance on their own in the afterlife if they are not ready to populate a "higher" level.

I have been looking at this afterlife subject for years, hoping for some way to tie everything together. All I really know is that there is some kind of intelligence operating in my life.

That doesn't help to explain why we appear to be overcome by our own ruthlessness and exploitation of others/resources.

I read that when people came to the U.S. that they found a beautiful place because the natives had realized long before them how to live without ruining everything. They had killed off most of the large game and realized they had to live another way, at some point in the past. Not that they were perfect little angels, but they were trying to move past the blatant urge to treat the earth like a disposable commodity.

I guess I am full of questions right now. That can be annoying sometimes.

But, I awoke from a dream in which I was finding happiness in speaking to someone I haven't talked to in a very long time. It was on someone's phone, which was a big old-fashioned looking thing, and I heard this person's name and immediately insisted to the owner of the phone that I just needed to say hello. So we talked for a bit, my old friend and me.

Then, I was thinking of the place we used to live in a nostalgic way. It was immediately there, in a slightly altered form, but my mind was telling me "familiar, familiar" and it was a good feeling. When I awoke it was going to slip away instantly, that memory, but I remembered.

I had been becoming lucid in the dream, and wanted to examine everything, when my alarm went off. I was feeling the wood of a bureau, feeling its hardness, and looking at the items scattered on top of it.

If it was an illusion, purely created from my mind, what can that tell me about the belief system territories on the other side? I wonder.

If I am drifting off topic, I apologize. What I am struggling with is the idea that it is much more difficult to make sense of things while in a fully operating "system" -- to change one's focus and direction and to fully use one's creative powers -- when in a fully operating system -- as opposed to wiping the slate clean and starting over. Just erasing it. That is very freeing, but then you might kind of miss some of the elements of the previous more chaotic time.

So, maybe that is part of what we are learning here. If we move on to become creators of complex systems in our own right, perhaps this earth experience is just the ticket. It may be what we need to help us understand from inside the system just exactly what it feels like to live under those conditions.

If we had "godlike" powers, wouldn't we need to know what we were doing to our creations?

seagull, she can just state that this and that is true because they are her individual experiences? If you have questions or comments about her experiences, you could try writing on her blog.

I could present drugs to you as a way to unwind, feel good and be happy, and every point otherwise as fear talk, and that you don't need to pay attention to the negative experiences of some, in order to have a splendid positive experience. You could take it at face value. You could also explore and make up your own mind and shed light on more of the picture purposely or unknowingly left out. Good or bad intentions doesn't necessarily mean something is true or false. Again, personal exploration helps with uncovering that.

If arriving at a place in front of a council of light for a life review, that presents you going back to earth as a judgement and an unavoidable fact, you might take that in as how it is, and do as you're told. "Thank you so very much, you're kind beyond measure! Please, pretty please, I'll do anything to go back!" If you know otherwise you'll do better than getting sucked in, even if arriving there or visiting friends in strange realms. No disk members need to take a bow to any council in the astral. But they can take a bow, of course. Focus 27 is a place where to make better informed decisions than in other areas in the astral.

Imo Carla isn't wrong about everything in her blog, nor right about everything neither. I'm not kidding about that, even if it makes you go wow one more heck of a time.

In order to make a learning ground as a disk, maybe with other disks, for other disks, a full understanding of light and dark polarity would be most helpful. For some reason this is a dog eat dog world, but there are other communal worlds "out there" that function the other way around, which makes for other challenges. Neither this, other similar worlds, nor some of the light makes right worlds are balanced. If they were balanced, there would be nothing to learn, as annoying as that sounds.

Thank you for your reply. I kind of understand what you are saying, about as much as I understand anyone. Sometimes I find this planet so frustrating. It is as if we are all speaking foreign languages with each other, with a hit and miss understanding. 

At times I think the world of our dreams, in sleep, is more real than the one I wake up to. And that thought is strangely comforting.

Oh, wow, seagull, you are posing some of the questions and answers about the afterlife I have had and wondered about although I have never worried about the light.  It is so nice to know someone else has those same questions.  I will try to have a conversation with my guides this morning and see if I get anything more than more questions. ::)

Thanks for the head start,
T'ressa

Later:

  I asked my guides if the light was a necessary part of the death and afterlife experience?  They responded "No."  Everyone is different and has different experiences."  I then asked if we have to reincarnate.  They said "No" 

That was my personal guides who may or may not be part of my subconscious.  I then started on a retireval and when my helper George showed up, I asked him how much he knew of the afterlife and could he answer my questions or did he need time to find out?  Jan another regular helper came forward.  I had the feeling she was there to help not so much with the retrievals but with the questions.  I asked if suicides had to reincarnate right away.  Jan hesitated as if thinking of the right words.  She finally said, "Every situation is different as every soul is different."  I then asked if I could use the light to transport souls I was retrieving.  They said, "Yes, but why would you?"

I asked, "Wouldn't it be faster?"

All I got back was "No."  I felt I better not push this questioning and save some for a later time, and I do have a lot more questions.  After all, they are helpers in soul retrievals and we better get on with it for today.

If this is a bit off topic, sorry.
T' :)

Thank you, T'ressa. Such a good idea. I must remember to go within.

Bob,  thanks for that link and your thoughts related to it. I feel discombobulated.

Seagull:

At this moment I don't have time to read everything you wrote, but are you talking about the Knight lady who says she channels Ramtha? If so, I wouldn't worry about what she says.

Thanks, Recoverer, but it doesn't really matter. I just realized that I am being a little ridiculous. Who am I to think that I can just read a lot and try a few experiments and think I can figure out what countless people before me have tried to do? What makes me think I am any smarter or somehow more curious or actually more lucky so as to find the answers to "life and death"...

I am so grateful for simply having hope in a life after this one, and the possibility of greater understanding someday. If I can simply live a decent life each day and do my best, that's all that really matters in the end, of that I can be sure.

Seagull-

What you said is probably the most important of all. Some of us spend so much time and effort researching and wondering about the afterlife.  If only we had the same commitment to finding and fulfilling the purpose of our own life here and now.

We need to realize we already won the lottery by being born!  For that we should be thankful each day.

In spite of what some people say, no one really knows what the afterlife is like or what happens after death.  Our life can be greatly enriched by focusing on helping others where we can, and trusting that a good life is its own reward and that what will be, will be.

Your message shows lots of wisdom.

r

 

Thank you, Rondele, I love what you just said about a good life being its own reward. Last night was the first night my dog, which I've had since 9 weeks of age, slept through the night with me, so that I did not have to separate her from me. This breed does not become an adult until around 3 years of age. So, consequently, she wakes up and plays in the middle of the night most of the time, or gets busy some other way. I thought we would always be that way. But, it happened, and we had a peaceful night, and woke up happy. Things are how they should be, and life is good. It's moments like these that make my life worth it, totally worth it. Reconnecting with old friends, having good and satisfying work, where I can make a difference in people's lives, going to a lunch counter where someone knows my name, enjoying a fine sunny day which is not too cold and not too hot, freedom to be who I am and live how I choose, enough money and resources to have a decent life but not the complications of wealth or the despair of poverty, moments of peace and awareness of beauty -- these things make my life worth living and this incarnation truly a blessing.

It doesn't take much to make this life worth living. Appreciation of the goodness in others, even when hope seems to be lost....everyone has bad days, sometimes bad weeks, sometimes bad years....but things can and do get better. It's true.

You are right. Appreciation makes all the difference.  If all of your day, or week, or year is bad, then you are not looking for the good stuff, the beauty, the love, the sunshine, the thousand little things that make life worth living.

Sending Love, :)
T'ressa

Hey Bob,
I have always wondered about the light trap. Personally, I am suspicious to go to the "white light" as the only way to pass on. I have read some good authors saying it is a scam - actually if I recall correctly Monroe itself said something about it.
Can you elaborate more about it? Thanks.

Bruce Moen wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2013 at 1:08pm:

Warpz, Even Heaven can get boring.  Personally, I incarnated here as a vacation from eternity. Bruce

Bruce can you elaborate a little more on this?

Earth life can be mighty boring too... Whats the REAL difference?

There is so much suffering going on here on Earth....

Are we actually forced to incarnate? Like a "wheel of reincarnation" type scenario?

I guess I am asking questions about the mechanics of how it works.... Are we just thrown into life in a mechanical sense or do we CHOOSE? AND- How certain are you of this?

How much free-will choice is involved in physically incarnating?