I haven’t shared any of my experiences here in quite a while.  I thought I’d pull something out of my logs to share and don't think I've told this one before. 

I work at a hospital.  Years ago I worked the evening shift, and one evening I was going to go to the basement.  There was a service elevator hidden in one of the departments, in a corner of a room normally filled with supplies, dumpsters, and empty boxes.  I don’t think many even knew there was actually an elevator there.  I can’t even remember what I was doing that night to go into the basement.  It’s creepy enough as it is, let alone at night and using that particular elevator.  But I snuck my way to the hidden elevator, got in, and pushed the B for basement.   The door closed, the elevator moved, and the door opened.  I stepped off.

I immediately realized I wasn’t in the basement.  I didn’t recognize where I was.  I heard the elevator door close behind me, and I turned around to see a sign telling me I was on the fourth floor.  How did that happen? I wondered.  The movement of the elevator didn’t seem extra long or to be going the wrong direction, and no other buttons had been lit.  And there was no one here waiting for the elevator.  I couldn’t imagine I had accidentally hit the 4 instead of the B, but perhaps.  This floor looked deserted and I figured that it must be one of the wings awaiting renovation.  I decided to take a look around just for the fun of it, since I was the only person on the floor.  Plus, I knew for a fact I hadn’t mistakenly pushed the wrong button, and I thought it pretty mysterious that I was brought there.  I thought it would be fun to explore and find out why. 

As I walked down the hall and I looked into the patient rooms, even looked in the employee break room.  There was no one around.  This was definitely an abandoned floor.  It was so quiet and felt kind of creepy to be there all alone.  I reached the end of the hall to the big open area where the waiting room was on one side and the nurses reception desk on the other.  Everything looked normal except for being completely deserted.  It was eerily quiet and it just felt wrong somehow.  I felt I was wrong to be there, not that I’d get into trouble or anything.  We often took shortcuts through abandoned wings, but this wing just seemed so eerily strange, empty, and wrong somehow. 

I was getting creeped out and decided to leave, so I went back down the hall to the elevator.  I pushed the button.  Suddenly a woman said, “Can I help you?” and it scared the heck out of me.  I quickly turned around and a hospital employee was politely looking at me.  I blurted out “Where did you come from?”  I was in shock at her sudden presence.  But after turning to look at her, I saw people walking the halls, nurses, someone in a wheelchair, and there was normal noise and activity.  I must have had the most shocked and confused look on my face.  She told me she saw me walking around looking like I was lost and she thought she’d ask if I needed any help.  She asked what I was looking for.  Still in shock, I ignored her question and asked her where everyone was and told her that just a minute ago there was no one here.  I told her I even walked up to the waiting room and no one was there.  She pointed that direction and said, “Yeah, you mean down there?  Yes there are people there.”  She seemed just as confused as I was as to why I hadn’t seen anyone before. 

I said again, "But where was everybody?"  She didn’t seem to understand that my question was literal and she said, “You were just down there.   There are people there.  But I can help you.  Where do you need to go?”  I wasn’t wanting her help, I wanted to understand why everyone had suddenly appeared all at the same time when I was the only person here before.  She said again that she saw me down the hall looking lost and followed me to the elevator to see if she could help.  I was beginning to think that she might be thinking I was a lost psych patient!  To make me feel better, she walked with me back down the hall to the nurses’ station where I saw patients and staff just as any normal floor would have of activity.  She said, “You were just here.”  I nodded.  She said “You obviously don’t belong here, let me get you back to the elevator.”  I finally had the presence of mind to tell her where I was going, the basement, and that I had no idea how I had ended up here.  She walked me back to the elevators, and I got on and left. 

I don’t know what happened or why, but it seemed that somehow I was not in complete alignment with physical reality time and space from the moment I got off that elevator until she got my attention.  I don’t know if I seemed odd to everyone else or if anyone else even noticed me.  For some reason she did.  But to my perception there was no one else there until she called out to me.  I’ve had a lot of weird experiences but this is one of the weirdest, especially since I don’t have a good understanding or belief about what this experience was all about.  I'm interested to hear any theories!

Vicky

Vicky, I understand what you told, but I am just as surprised as you are.
I really don't know what to say about it, but I do believe you.

Carl,

Your response was out of line.  No need to be rude.  If you don't like me that's fine.  But if you don't like Bruce's work, why are you here on his website?


Mogenblue,

Thank you, I appreciate it.  It's easier to share my more weird experiences after having become more comfortable with my acceptance that there's more to this physical reality than we realize!  I don't know if I'll ever find the answer to what this experience was, but stuff like this at least makes for interesting conversations. 

It does show your consciousness is open or sensitive enough to such strange experiences.
It's one thing if you are dreaming and the experience is so real that you can't distinguish it from Earth reality.
But being just flat awake and then have an experience of being completely alone is very different.

I know that spirits of low energy see earth people with a higher attunement as a sort of white haze or bowl that they cannot penetrate. The higher attunement provides such a cloud of energy around them.
But this is totally different, seeing no people at all while being fully awake. How can you switch to a level where you see no people at all? Beats me.

Hi Vicky,

Interesting experience.  Yes, our consciousness can attune itself or focus to different perceptions.  It is unclear to me where you were or perhaps when.   Remote viewers sometimes are given coordinates of a site and describe things from the past or from the future (later borne out or found in researching the past). 

Carl, really if you don't believe in all the mumbo jumbo of posters here, why chime in with these insults?  Why not instead participate in a forum that suited your tastes?  And tell me how do your insults or inappropriate remarks help the discussion?

One thing I admire about Bruce is that he puts himself out there, with his experiences or beliefs.  Bruce doesn't try to convert anyone to a specific style of thinking; in fact he warns people about getting stuck in a belief system.  He certainly isn't trying to be a guru (read his posts), so much of your barbs were thrown for no good reason.  And, Carl, he lets all of us benefit from this forum gratis (for free). 

M

I wonder if it would have happened if you had taken the stairs. Probably not. Too much stairs and taking the stairs keeps you too much focused on which floor you are.
The elevator allowed your conscious to change somehow.

By pushing the wrong button without noticing you entered a floor which was usually not the floor your work on, I guess. I guess it was a kind of otherwise unfamiliar environment.
You expected an empty environment, the basement, while in the elevator your mind already attuned to that. So in your susceptive mind that got so real that when you stepped out on the fourth floor you didn't see any difference. Your expectance of seeing nobody in the basement had the upper hand.

I think these kind of things do happen more often in various situations.

Hi Vicky,

Definitely an interesting experience!  I've had a few similar experiences, but nothing that lasted more than a minute if that.  Probably one of the best descriptions I've heard is from Tom Campbell.  He describes these experiences as switching "reality frames" which is entirely possible for anyone to do either intentionally through remote viewing as Matthew mentioned or otherwise in which I believe the consciousness system (guides if you prefer) create the experience.  Or perhaps you simply slipped into a time frame before or after that wing of the hospital was in use. Slipping from one time frame to another is what I think happened to me when I was about 10 or 11 years old. 

My grandparents were living in the country and I loved to visit them.  This particular day I was walking down a gravel road and was perhaps a mile or so away from the house, but the house was still within my sight, when suddenly all the scenery around me (corn fields mostly) changed where I saw nothing but prairie grass and tall weeds.  My grandparents house was not visible, nor were the other farm houses that I knew were there, but what really surprised me was the road was gone and I was standing all alone in a field of prairie grass.  I looked up at storm clouds that were starting to build, heard a loud crack of thunder, felt a chill run down my back and I took off running down the road that had suddenly reappeared.

Kathy

Vicky-

I've mentioned this before, but it's similar to your experience.

My mother's nephew was a customs agent in upstate NY bordering Canada.  From all I knew about him, he was definitely a pretty grounded guy.

One day he was relaxing on his front porch, casually watching the traffic go.

Suddenly the whole scene shifted.  Instead of cars there were horses and buggies, and there were people but they were dressed as would be expected in the early 1900s.  The pavement was now cobblestones.  He could clearly hear the hooves of the horses and the clattering wheels going over the stones.

Then just as quickly the scene shifted again, back to the present.

He swore he was not sleeping or dreaming, but wide awake at the time.

Assuming it was not a lucid dream, could it be that Seth was correct in that all reality is really unfolding at once, past/present/future is really just One?

And somehow he was able (albeit without effort) to peer through whatever veil separates these time frames?

R

Hi Vicky,

it seems that you've had a lot of thoughtful responses here. One thing I'd like to ask is if you've heard of Jenny Randles who writes a lot about time issues (e.g. Time Travel: Fact, Fiction & Possibility) she recounts a lot of incidents such as this. There is a link to a tale of a couple who stayed in 'vanishing' hotel here: http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art55825.asp

D

Dear Carl,

You did the same to me over a year ago, accusing me of being some kind of gonzo feminist (like......what :o?!), of making money from my afterlife experiences (when? where? how?...not one friggin' nickel) and of never having any verifiable evidence or proof of the afterlife (sure).

What's your problem, Carl? Don't you know that your childish participation here smacks of envy and immaturity that should embarrass you?

Vicky,

What an interesting experience. It seems it was much more than you just being spooked by someone approaching from behind. You could feel from the moment the elevator doors opened and you stepped out into the empty hallway that something was off or different. Sometimes re-visiting an experience, locale or feeling, to see if more info comes to you, can be a benefit.

Just a thought.

Ginny

Yes these are all great responses.  Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts. 

Kathy, were you scared as a child when that happened to you?  I think Mogenblue is right about consciousness being open to these types of experiences.  I've had more than a fair share for one person, but I think I must be wired this way.  Kathy, I always think of your experience with the car, you should have crashed but instead went right through it, right? 

Rondele, that's remarkable.  I know that none of you really know me but people who do would also say I'm pretty grounded too.  I can't say that I have any idea what opens me up to these experiences.  All I know is, they come when you're least expecting it to.  Which makes sense I guess.  I think Mogenblue was alluding to the fact that the elevator ride worked as a vehicle to "transport" my consciousness.  As with your mother's nephew...sitting on the porch watching the traffic go by is one of those activities that allows the mind and consciousness to shift so subtlely you don't even notice anything happening. 

You reminded me of an experience I had when I was pregnant with my firstborn.  I was at work.  I do medical transcription.  That kind of work is also perfect for allowing the brainwaves to shift into alpha waves I think.  What I mean is, you can really just tune out what you're doing and completely be somewhere else.  One day while typing I was completely awake and aware of what I was doing when suddenly everything in my physical visual field shifted and what I was seeing was as if I were standing inside a hotel room.  I knew my eyes were open, and I blinked many times to try to shake away the vision.  I even waved my hands in front of my face, but couldn't see them.  I could still hear the normal office voices and activity and could even place my hands on my keyboard, desk, and chair but could not see what I was doing.  Physically I knew I was still at my desk at work.  I turned my chair to get up and get help, but being pregnant I didn't want to fall or cause anyone to panic for me.  So I remained calm and watched the vision as it unfolded.  Visually I was in this hotel room.  I watched a scene unfold before me which I knew to be completely a symbolic scene, not literal.  The visual lasted at least more than a minute, but probably not more than two and suddenly my vision went back to normal.  The vision was like watching myself in a dream.  It seemed to signify that many years in the future I'd be divorcing my husband, coming out on the other side of a death, and allowing my baby to go forth.  At the time, I had no idea what these things meant but felt they were going to happen many years in my future.  By the time I did divorce my husband about 15 years later, I had to go through quite a transformation, like a death of my old self, in order to have the courage to stand up to him and leave him.  He was very abusive.  And "my baby" going forth, to me means my passion of studying the spiritual and the paranormal and writing my books, something my husband tried to prevent me from doing while we were married.  What was remarkable to me about that strange experience was not what it told me, but the fact that the vision took over my ability to physically see.  It was like having a dream while being completely wide awake.  It was too intriguing not to just sit there and watch, but I know for a fact that if it had gone on any longer I was already planning to try and get up and walk to the next cubicle and tell the person sitting there to please call 911.  I thought, "if I don't get my ability to see physically soon, I'm going to be really scared!" 

Dave,

Yes I have "Time Storms" by Jenny Randles and have read it many times.  It's an fascinating read.  Another similar "altered-time/reality" story I have is one that I actually emailed to Jenny Randles asking her what she thought.  I can't remember her exact reply, but I have the copy.  But her opinion was that I was witnessing a possible future event.  The event was one afternoon while driving to work I was stopped at a light.  A truck ahead of me in the middle lane suddenly caught on fire and was engulfed in flames.  I panicked and was about to ditch my car and run as fast as I could away from the area before all our cars exploded.  But I could see that no one else was reacting, not even the woman right behind the truck who was looking right at it.  Just before ditching my car, I took one more look at the truck and saw the whole event go in reverse as if being rewinded.  The flames got sucked backward until completely gone and all was normal again.  I have to agree with the author of that book...that I had witnessed a possible future event.  But I'll never know if it actually happened.  I lost the truck in traffic and didn't know what else to do. 

I hate to make it sound like I have these kinds of things happen all the time, I don't.  They are rare.  I'm quite a rational, reasonable, logical, and normal person and don't do drugs, drink, or have any mental illness.  But I trust that there's a reason for what I'm experiencing even if I don't have answers to them all.  Most of my visions and clairvoyance are common experiences which end up coming true in the near future, giving me that direct and immediate verification that tells me I can trust my clairvoyance to be a real sense of perception.  Like I said though, there are a few of the really weird ones that still don't make sense to me.

Thanks Ginny---I'm tempted to try and go back to that same elevator and area, although I don't work in that department anymore.  But I don't expect the same thing to happen.  It seems that once you become aware of something, trying to recreate it doesn't work. 

Thanks for all your responses. 

rondele wrote on Feb 4^th, 2013 at 3:50pm:

Vicky- I've mentioned this before, but it's similar to your experience. My mother's nephew was a customs agent in upstate NY bordering Canada.  From all I knew about him, he was definitely a pretty grounded guy. One day he was relaxing on his front porch, casually watching the traffic go. Suddenly the whole scene shifted.  Instead of cars there were horses and buggies, and there were people but they were dressed as would be expected in the early 1900s.  The pavement was now cobblestones.  He could clearly hear the hooves of the horses and the clattering wheels going over the stones. Then just as quickly the scene shifted again, back to the present. He swore he was not sleeping or dreaming, but wide awake at the time. Assuming it was not a lucid dream, could it be that Seth was correct in that all reality is really unfolding at once, past/present/future is really just One? And somehow he was able (albeit without effort) to peer through whatever veil separates these time frames? R

Yes, I believe so.  I’ve had similar experiences and considered them lucid dreams, assuming that lucid dreams are just as real as this “real” focus reality we now find ourselves in.

For many years, I’d assumed that I would always realize when I was having a conscious lucid dream because there would usually be something that didn’t quite fit, such as my body hopping up, and flying through a window.

One day while a so-called green comet was zooming by, I stood up from my chair and everything in my home had taken on a green cast overlay to it.  With no feeling of having fallen to sleep, I simply stood up, and found myself in a thick green fog.  While walking through my house, I saw that everything including my white dogs were covered in this brilliant green.  I thought the comet must have done something to my reality dimension, and let this confusion rest for several years.

The other day, while listening to Bashar videos, I came across the one posted below.  Finally, I had my answer.

Lucid Dreaming - Bashar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ophU5dQB8

Quote:

Forums / Afterlife Knowledge / Re: 2012 Calendar Issues on: Nov 8th, 2012 at 6:42pm Started by pratekya | Post by Ralph Buskey       Carl says: Quote: Hi Ralph. In your previous posts, you mention that you suffer from acute constipation. May I suggest you take the organic-vegetarian method rather than buy chemical pills offered by the major pharmacies. California pitted prunes or organic senna tablets are the best way to solve this problem of yours...As regard your reply to this thread, I'm sure my suggestion will solve this question of yours. Best Regards. Carl & Family.    (My response)    Hey carl,    Are you trying to be some kind of comedian? I'm trying to supply helpful information and you are picking on me with made up attacks. I never said anything about being constipated, and your humor is not appreciated here. Go pick on people in some other conversation board who appreciate your sick form of humor. Ralph

Hey Carl,
   Even though that was 3 months ago, do you remember this post? I see you are continuing to pick on members of this board. I guess you let me off very lightly compared to your cruel remarks to Vicky on this thread:

Carl said:


Quote:

Vicky.  If Bruce told you to strip naked and Streak around your neighborhood block for 15 minutes, as this will increase your OOB experiences! You'll do it? Because Moens is a Guru to you! And...Are you serious!???. ..We all know you're a "Bruce" Imagination clone and groupie in regards to the Astral Afterlife Planes and their explorations. You can always report me for phony "Malware" like you and Moens inner circle did with Paulie! OK! Use your Moen "Imagination" method and tell us all when the next major disaster will happen on our physical Earth!

   I consider the gross comments that you make as a form of Malware all by itself. I bet many of us are hoping that you do something stupid to get kicked off of this conversation board and relieve us all of your non intellectual attempts at non humorous verbal abuses.

   I'm sorry Vicky for spouting off on your thread like this but I just had to say something. You don't deserve to have verbal bullies like Carl saying nasty things to you like that.

Ralph

Greetings Vicky.

   I am fascinated by your experience in the hospital. Don't take this the wrong way as I totally believe your experience, but this sounds like a Twilight Zone episode (I love watching "The Twilight Zone")   :-)

   At first I thought about time dislocation which would have put you at that hospital floor when either they didn't open yet or were closed at a later time. This couldn't be the case, since the nurse said she saw you the entire time. Therefore, you were physically there when the other people were. My best guess is that you had a psychic vision of being there at a time when no one else was. Either way though, I still think it's a fascinating experience to have.

Ralph

SHSS,

That's very interesting.  I listened to the link.  So is this guy a spiritual speaker?  What's with the comedy angle of it?  I like what he said and how simple he explained it.  Looking at physical reality from a higher consciousness perspective, and the color just represents the chakra level. 

It sounds like I had the same type of experience once!  I saw the color orange as well but this was in the middle of the day and I knew I wasn't sleeping.  I came home from taking my kids to preschool, and when I walked into the house there was an orange hue everywhere like a haze or fog.  It came up from the floor to about 5 feet above the floor level.  I panicked and thought I was in the wrong house, because even though I recognized my furniture, I knew that I wasn't "recognizing" reality the same way I normally did.  I actually ran out the door and stood on my front porch.  Of course then I realized, well if this is my front porch then this is obviously my house!  Not to mention the fact that my key worked!!  So I went back in.  The orange hue was still there.  As I stood there, I had the sudden awareness that someone was inside my house.  I knew for certain because I could feel and sense it.  I searched quickly but found no one.  The orange hue vanished and I assumed it went away because I had shifted awareness and was just no longer preceiving it.

All these years I just assumed that what I saw, the orange hue, was the aura of the man in my house.  You see, a few minutes later I did find out there was a man in my house, except he was actually in the crawl space below the house.  He was the phone repairman!  I had no idea he was there.  He had let himself into my backyard while I was gone, and he entered the crawl space from the back of the house.  All these years I assumed that the orange haze I was seeing was his aura. 

But now that you shared this link, I have to agree with this guy...that I was somehow looking at physical reality from one vibrational level up above normal physical reality perception.  Wow, that's really neat.  I'm so glad you showed me that. 

In my book I shared the experience of when I had my son in the hospital and was severely ill and at risk of dying from pre-eclampsia.  My husband awoke me in the night to talk to me in the hospital room, and when I opened my eyes I could see him as purple.  He had a purple glow around him.  When I told him, he panicked and got the nurse.  When she came in she had a green aura around her.  I knew that the experience was brought on by the serious state I was in healthwise, but I knew it was no hallucination. 

I never knew why I was seeing them through these colors.  I knew it was about "the aura" but I had assumed it was their aura.  But from that link you just shared, now I'm understanding that I was seeing them through the levels of my own aura, is that right? 

Vicky wrote on Feb 4^th, 2013 at 8:58pm:

I hate to make it sound like I have these kinds of things happen all the time, I don't.  They are rare.  I'm quite a rational, reasonable, logical, and normal person and don't do drugs, drink, or have any mental illness.  But I trust that there's a reason for what I'm experiencing even if I don't have answers to them all.  Most of my visions and clairvoyance are common experiences which end up coming true in the near future, giving me that direct and immediate verification that tells me I can trust my clairvoyance to be a real sense of perception.  Like I said though, there are a few of the really weird ones that still don't make sense to me.

I've had clairvoyance things too in the past. They are also rare although since my 20th or so I had quite a number of them. It was often quite difficult for me to accept what was shown to me because actually what was shown or told was not too very pleasant.
In one case I had a vision that was to take place about 10 years later. It was told to me at the moment I got it. I found that so stupid that I refused to accept it, but about 10 years later it did come true.

I think it's important, like you say, to be grounded. Because that enables you to come back at your normal present situation and better evaluate what has happened to you. I have dealt with this issue many times. It's nice to be taken away in your mind to all kinds of experiences but if you are in traffic at the same time you do have to be aware of traffic too to avoid any accidents. That's what kept me from going too far in being lifted up in my mind with a spiritual experience.

In my case with clairvoyance I always stay aware of my environment and after the image I get from the future there is usually some short contact with a spiritual guide to clarify or to confirm what I have seen.

Over time I have become mature enough to not to question a clairvoyant thing anymore, but it was a step that I had to take. That step involved to be kind to my spiritual guides and not to question them anymore. It was something they asked from me because in the end they were only trying to help me and it is not nice to them if I throw it back in their face saying it's stupid or unbelievable or things like that.

It's been a few years now since I had the last clairvoyant experience but I do get regular help from my guides in more daily situations, like how to respond to replies on forums on the internet.

It's a never ending process. There is always something new to learn and there is always room to improve my well being.

Ralph,  Thanks for your support and comments.  I love the Twilight Zone too, by the way!  I like your simple take on my experience, that I psychically saw the place at another time when no one else was there. 

Mogenblue, I too have had to learn to just accept and not question it.  Being too critical has a way of immediately shutting down the connection.  I still have a long way to go as far as trusting or knowing how to respond to what I receive, but I'm learning. 

Hi Vicky,

I loved hearing your stories of the colors, thanks for sharing.  This has been going on with me too.  Many times, I’ve seen brilliant blue sparkles, and have been told that it’s the aura.  Several so-called dead spirits have shown themselves to me like a fourth of July display of brilliant colored fireworks, living mandala’s, and symbols.

Have you heard of Seth, channeled by Jane Roberts?  Well, Daryl Anka channels Bashar, an extraterrestrial being.  These two channels share the same teachings, and even though they may sound slightly different, it’s just a matter of semantics.  The message is the same.

I’m aware that this may sound a little ‘off the wall’ if you are not familiar with this kind of teaching, but it has proven itself right for me, for many years.  There are tons of YouTube videos of Bashar’s teachings.  I love his sense of humor.

I don’t know, but you may have been seeing both their aura’s, and your own vibrational levels.  It gets really exciting, doesn’t it?   :)

SHSS wrote on Feb 4^th, 2013 at 10:57pm:

Hi Vicky, I loved hearing your stories of the colors, thanks for sharing.  This has been going on with me too.  Many times, I’ve seen brilliant blue sparkles, and have been told that it’s the aura.  Several so-called dead spirits have shown themselves to me like a fourth of July display of brilliant colored fireworks, living mandala’s, and symbols. Have you heard of Seth, channeled by Jane Roberts?  Well, Daryl Anka channels Bashar, an extraterrestrial being.  These two channels share the same teachings, and even though they may sound slightly different, it’s just a matter of semantics.  The message is the same. I’m aware that this may sound a little ‘off the wall’ if you are not familiar with this kind of teaching, but it has proven itself right for me, for many years.  There are tons of YouTube videos of Bashar’s teachings.  I love his sense of humor. I don’t know, but you may have been seeing both their aura’s, and your own vibrational levels.  It gets really exciting, doesn’t it?   :)

I've heard of Seth but I never studied any of it.  As far as channelers go, I'm not really into that kind of stuff.  But like I said, I liked this guy Bashar's explanation for the colors.  It's at least some kind of explanation that seemed to make sense.  But I agree with you, it's likely I was seeing their auras through my own vibration levels.  It's really very interesting. 

:)

Quote:

Kathy, were you scared as a child when that happened to you? I think Mogenblue is right about consciousness being open to these types of experiences. I've had more than a fair share for one person, but I think I must be wired this way. Kathy, I always think of your experience with the car, you should have crashed but instead went right through it, right? Vicky

Vicky,

During the event I wasn't scared at all.  It just seemed surreal.  I've always loved thunderstorms.  Maybe because of the energy, so when I heard the crack of thunder and took off running, it was more of a thrill than fear.  It also occurs to me, especially after reading Rondele's post that things like this could be similar to having a vision where one suddenly taps into the memory of consciousness and views the time frame similar to a mini movie.  That happens to me quite often, but usually I'm aware of both my normal physical reality and the vision at the same time.

I asked TC if he thought the incident with my car was switching reality frames and he didn't think so because of several factors:  I saw the woman in the other car and she saw me.  The man driving didn't see me.  During the event I was conscious of moving through substance like Jello and was surrounded with brilliant white light.  When the event concluded my car had turned the corner, shut itself off and I was sitting there trembling uncontrollably for at least 10 minutes before I could start the car and drive to work.  During the entire event I was completely and totally calm and at peace.  That feeling of peacefulness last several hours.  So I guess the only thing I can say is... thank you to God, guardian angels, guides or whoever saved our lives.

Actually I think everyone is "wired" for having these experiences, and they can and do happen as we spiritually mature by getting rid of fear and ego so our inner core being can up well like a fountain into our physical consciousness.

Kathy

An interesting thread. It has me remembering a time a few years ago when I was sitting inside my apartment on a sunny, quiet morning. I heard a loud thump downstairs, outside. A huge tree branch had fallen onto the driveway nearly right in front of my door, making quite the impact. It was huge, really huge, and much too heavy for someone to handle by themselves or even with another person. No one was around. I remember being grateful it had not hurt anyone. Shortly afterwards, within a few minutes, it seemed to me, it disappeared. I opened the door, was shocked that it was gone, and saw someone come around the side of the building. I asked them about it, if they had seen it. No. It seemed impossible to me, so much so that I told my mother about it. It still "bothers" me to this day.

Vicky,

Yea taking another ride up to the 4th floor probably wouldn't do much for you. I was thinking along the lines of going within, while in a relaxed state, and re-experiencing that feeling you had...like filling up with PUL by revisiting or remembering the feel of a certain moment that was powerfully loving. State Specific Memory is a better way of explaining it--which Bruce teaches to enable explorers to recall more of their afterlife experiences.

Gin

Greetings Vicky.

  Doing what Ginny said sounds like good advice, except for telling you not to revisit the 4th floor. If I were you, I would be going back to the 4th floor right away and see if it brings back any memories. Revisiting places I've been to have many times brought back old memories. Also, even though some years have passed, it's possible that the nurse you talked to could still be working there.

   For a little levity, all of this talk reminds me of when I was stationed at Yakota AB in Japan back in 1980 and 1981 while in the Air Force. The base hospital reserved the whole 4th floor as a mental ward. My friends and I sometimes joked about having to behave ourselves or we would end up on the 4th floor. Sure enough, one of my friends got drunk and stole a gas tank from someone's motorcycle because he wanted it real bad for his own bike. They put him on the 4th floor for a week of evaluation. My friends and I visited him and we all laughed about him ending up in there. After his vacation week with comic books and crayons, he decided to behave from then on.    :D

Ralph

Vicky,
You and Roger have just provided an important [paranormal?] experience genre never discussed on this site.  It is important to expand the range of such experiences as much as possible because mislabelled experiences might get confused with conventional OBEs or phasing. 

I have often wanted to visit Gettysburg, not just because I'm a Civil War buff, but because there is an excellent "Haunted Gettysburg" tour.  I saw a TV show about some of the more remarkable hauntings.  Two women get in an elevator at an old Civil War era remodelled building, but when they get off, their floor relives the battle.  Men are dressed in period piece clothing.  Wounded soldiers are moaning and screaming and limbs are being amputated.  Surgeons stare at the tourists quizzically as if to say, "What the Hell are you doing here?"  The terrified women close the elevator door and hurry back upstairs from whence they entered the elevator.  They bring other witnesses down to see the mayhem, but now no one is there; there is no activity!

I'm also reminded of the shared NDEs described in the new book by Ray Moody and Paul Perry.  The room in which shared NDEs occur seems the same, except that the room's geometry oddly changes.  The healthy witnesses can now share their dying loved one's past life review, complete with the feelings of all participants.  So in a sense, these witnesses seem to enter a kind of time warp.  Fascinating stuff!

So Roger is a card-carrying Sethian, eh?   Scary!

Btw, I've been gone because I have just encountered a phenomenon I've often seen--many parishioners and their friends dying unexpectedly in rapid succession.  One [Brad] was a respected doctor in his mid-50s, who was a scrupulous vegan and worked out daily at our local fitness center.   Brad died on his snowmobile of a heart attack.  Another was a suicide by a friend's son.  Then 2 church members fell in their homes.  One {Jim] died of the effects of the resulting concussion.  I was very close to Jim. Jim had just taken in a little dog he found shivering on a snow pile in the middle of a street.  He took the dog to a house at random in the next parallel street, knocked on the door, and asked if the guy knew who owned the dog.  The guy pointed out the house  of a blind lady who lives a block away.  Jim knocks on her door and returns her guide dog.  Then Howard fell out of his bed in a nursing home, when the staff were screaming about a fire in the home.  Howard had pneumonia, and could not cope with this fall.  I had just visited him, and he was joyful and lucid; but now he no longer knows who he was or who I am!  Nor can he speak!  Then just now, my Dad calls and says my Mom fell in her bathroom, only to be discovered the next morning by Dad.  Fortunately, Mom seems OK now.  But I was worried, given the fate of the 2 men, whose fall I mentioned.  There were other deaths as well.  I have no idea why deaths seem to come in bunches like this for extended church families; I just know that they do!

Don

That is very interesting Beserk,

Would you mind starting a new thread on this so we can all focus on your death experiences?

I know it sounds funny, but from what you say it seems like death comes in trances. Like they have processed some people from earth and are ready for a new trance.

Nothing disobedient meant. That's just how it looks on the first face.

Anyway, I am vegan too and I take it very easy. I should exercise more but it's a bit too cold outside here in the Netherlands at the moment.

I am using Rum (37.5%) to develop more social aspects in myself..... .. .
It's a long stretch but I know you understand, Don.

Please have a good day,
Frits  :)

Hi Don-

Well I'm a card carrying NRA Life Member but not quite there yet re. Seth.  But some of the things he (aka Jane Roberts) says make sense to me.  Like no such thing as linear time.  Other things?  Not so much.

Btw I forgot something I think is interesting re. the experience my mom's nephew had.  Not only did he see the people and horses, and heard the noises from the clopping of the hooves and wagon wheels, BUT he also distinctly remembered the strong, pungent smells associated with horses!

So this raises a question....do you know of any other NDEs or OBEs or lucid dreams where the olfactory senses came into play?  I don't recall anything along those lines.

Any thoughts?

Sorry to hear of all the deaths.  My mother used to say things happen in 3s.  Looks like you exceeded that number!

R

I can tell you that in my medical practice, I can go many months without seeing a single death, and then often there are 2-3 at a time.  I can't explain it, but it happens so often in clusters, that if I attend to one patient who passes over, I will sometimes tell the secretaries that we have to brace ourselves for another 1-2.  This happened about 3 months ago. 

Sorry for your losses Don.

Quote:

I'm also reminded of the shared NDEs described in the new book by Ray Moody and Paul Perry.  The room in which shared NDEs occur seems the same, except that the room's geometry oddly changes.  The healthy witnesses can now share their dying loved one's past life review, complete with the feelings of all participants.  So in a sense, these witnesses seem to enter a kind of time warp.  Fascinating stuff!

A few years ago Roger sent me a book to read, "Lighted Passages" if I remember the name correctly.  My pc crashed a couple years ago and I loss the notes I'd taken while reading it, but I'm wondering if the passing of the daughter described in the book wasn't a shared death experience?  Too bad I loss all my notes.  There were some very interesting things in the book that I could identify with.

Sounds like you have had a busy time.  I'm sorry to hear of your losses.

K

Berserk2 wrote on Feb 6^th, 2013 at 1:24am:

I have often wanted to visit Gettysburg, not just because I'm a Civil War buff, but because there is an excellent "Haunted Gettysburg" tour.  I saw a TV show about some of the more remarkable hauntings.  Two women get in an elevator at an old Civil War era remodelled building, but when they get off, their floor relives the battle.  Men are dressed in period piece clothing.  Wounded soldiers are moaning and screaming and limbs are being amputated.  Surgeons stare at the tourists quizzically as if to say, "What the Hell are you doing here?"  The terrified women close the elevator door and hurry back upstairs from whence they entered the elevator.  They bring other witnesses down to see the mayhem, but now no one is there; there is no activity! Don

I can't believe you mentioned that.  I totally know episode you're talking about.  I remember seeing that story years ago!  This concept is so intriguing to me since I've read a few books about the subject.  I'd love to have my own experience out of time, seeing and interacting with people from the past, but just not wanting to be scared out of my wits about it.

Sorry to hear of all the deaths so close to you, but yeah that stuff does come up in groups seems like.   

Ginny wrote on Feb 4^th, 2013 at 8:20pm:

Dear Carl, You did the same to me over a year ago, accusing me of being some kind of gonzo feminist (like......what :o?!), of making money from my afterlife experiences (when? where? how?...not one friggin' nickel) and of never having any verifiable evidence or proof of the afterlife (sure). What's your problem, Carl? Don't you know that your childish participation here smacks of envy and immaturity that should embarrass you?

You Lie! Ginny! Produce those posts of mine and I'll resign from this forum with an apology, forever! I've known you for well over a decade in this and other forums/groups/message boards! There is no real evidence of your retrievals or any other so called spiritual work, except from your personal "imaginative" mind and ego. Predict something from the future? After all, all you have to do is to "imagine" it and it its real!...Don't insult me, and other free thinkers....Carl   

On Nov 26th 2010 you wrote:

'Oh! Wow! OK! Your Astral Grand Poobah is Bruce Moen! I'm Sorry! No Offense! Bruce! But your Clones and Nerds and Geeks will defend you till "Astral Death"!!!! Including those retrieval artists who have little or no positive, physical-spiritual internet,  retrieval experience or verifications , 99.9 Smiley% negative, including Ginny!!! Your  Prized  'Imagination' Bullshit Pupil who has absolutely lied in writing to further her money making and feminist ego bent!!!.....Sorry to rain on your money making parade, Bruce! . Sincerely. Carl.'

You have to ask yourself Carl why if Bruce was operating some kind of groupie devotee site you hav'nt been banned a long time ago. Your posts consistently confuse understandable, reasonable doubt with personal attacks and viciousness. Nasty Carl, very nasty.

Predictions about future events are not the same as exploration of the afterlife.  Duh.

Honestly, Carl, people who use the imagination method do it knowing full well that it is merely a technique to open their minds.  They then try to sort out what real contact may have occurred.  No one says "if you imagine it, it is so."  That is your twisted spin on things.  But why lurk here and insult people?  What need are you fulfilling by being so hateful?  Isn't there a forum out there that would better suit your needs?

carl wrote on Feb 6^th, 2013 at 11:42pm:

Ginny wrote on Feb 4th, 2013 at 8:20pm: Dear Carl, You did the same to me over a year ago, accusing me of being some kind of gonzo feminist (like......what :o?!), of making money from my afterlife experiences (when? where? how?...not one friggin' nickel) and of never having any verifiable evidence or proof of the afterlife (sure). What's your problem, Carl? Don't you know that your childish participation here smacks of envy and immaturity that should embarrass you? You Lie! Ginny! Produce those posts of mine and I'll resign from this forum with an apology, forever! I've known you for well over a decade in this and other forums/groups/message boards! There is no real evidence of your retrievals or any other so called spiritual work, except from your personal "imaginative" mind and ego. Predict something from the future? After all, all you have to do is to "imagine" it and it its real!...Don't insult me, and other free thinkers....Carl

Quote:

On Nov 26th 2010 Carl wrote: 'Oh! Wow! OK! Your Astral Grand Poobah is Bruce Moen! I'm Sorry! No Offense! Bruce! But your Clones and Nerds and Geeks will defend you till "Astral Death"!!!! Including those retrieval artists who have little or no positive, physical-spiritual internet,  retrieval experience or verifications , 99.9 Smiley% negative, including Ginny!!! Your  Prized  'Imagination' Bullshit Pupil who has absolutely lied in writing to further her money making and feminist ego bent!!!.....Sorry to rain on your money making parade, Bruce! . Sincerely. Carl.'

Carl, It sure looks like it is time for you to apologize and take your insulting remarks and accusations elsewhere permanently!

Good research work, smidee.

Yes, time to say goodbye Carl.

Finally no more useless, insulting posts from you.  Guess you now need to find another conversation board.

Thank goodness!

R

The appearance of being "stuck" in a locked-in historical scene seems to be a standard feature of hauntings.  But does this mean that when the "trapped" soul manifests, it also concretizes the illusory presence of a cast of characters existing in that period, but currently present only as an empty thought forms?  In the elevator women's shared civil war scenario, was only one deceased soldier "present" against a background of several empty thought forms of surgeons, war wounded, etc.?   

When Vicky experienced the empty 4th floor, was she in fact sharing a thought form of that floor with a discarnate spirit whose presence was kept secret?   In other words, was she present in a parallel construct of that floor, which she might have needed if she were to have a shared NDE with a soul dying on that floor? 

When soul retrievals are performed, is the perception of a cartoony setting merely a reflection of the retrievee's thought forms?  When we contact a discarnate spirit during ADCs or NDEs, how much of what we see is a set of multiple thought forms emanating from that spirit?  How can we diffierentiate these thought forms from the genuine presence of other spirits and independent geographical locales in spirit planes?

When Robert Bruce has OBE visits to astral Rehab centers, he says that the "staff" (wandering nurses, nurses at desks, etc.) seem to be merely thought forms who can't be meaningfully engaged, but the visiting parents of the deceased in the rehab center seem to be the true parents?  What kinds of holographic games are being played during NDEs and ADCs anyway?  Do we really need to bring in "My Big Toe" here? 

Don

Dear Carl,

You posted; "Oh! Wow! OK! Your Astral Grand Poobah is Bruce Moen! I'm Sorry! No Offense! Bruce! But your Clones and Nerds and Geeks will defend you till "Astral Death"!!!! Including those retrieval artists who have little or no positive, physical-spiritual internet,  retrieval experience or verifications , 99.9 % negative, including Ginny!!! Your  Prized  'Imagination' Bullshit Pupil who has absolutely lied in writing to further her money making and feminist ego bent!!!.....Sorry to rain on your money making parade, Bruce! . Sincerely. Carl."      


Adios

Vicky,

Sorry for cluttering up your great thread. I posted before realizing I didn't need to.


Gin

Ginny wrote on Feb 7^th, 2013 at 7:15pm:

Dear Carl, You posted; "Oh! Wow! OK! Your Astral Grand Poobah is Bruce Moen! I'm Sorry! No Offense! Bruce! But your Clones and Nerds and Geeks will defend you till "Astral Death"!!!! Including those retrieval artists who have little or no positive, physical-spiritual internet,  retrieval experience or verifications , 99.9 % negative, including Ginny!!! Your  Prized  'Imagination' Bullshit Pupil who has absolutely lied in writing to further her money making and feminist ego bent!!!.....Sorry to rain on your money making parade, Bruce! . Sincerely. Carl."       Adios

Ginny. I was hoping you retrieved this post from the archives. As usual with most regular members who delete all their posts, and post back with other usernames, I decided that all my archived posts be available for comment. I could have deleted all my posts like the rest of you/some  here on this forum....Justin and others for example. You have Zero Verification when it comes to retrievals! Include the dead persons physical family for comment? I've never seen or read you posting their physical families comments in any of your posts when you supposedly retrieved their kin!?..Lets put this into the "Too Hard Basket' for you girl!? Carl.

Is anything I said not the truth?   

   

Thanks, Ginny, it's ok.  I'm pleased I shared something that got some interest and great responses.  Clearly Carl is just looking to cause a fight.  It's a waste of time trying to figure out why.  I really don't care. 

Great questions Don.  You gave me a lot to think about. Have you read the book "Otherwhere" by Kurt Leland?  I wonder if it would interest you.

carl wrote on Feb 7^th, 2013 at 11:27pm:

Ginny wrote on Feb 7th, 2013 at 7:15pm: Dear Carl, You posted; "Oh! Wow! OK! Your Astral Grand Poobah is Bruce Moen! I'm Sorry! No Offense! Bruce! But your Clones and Nerds and Geeks will defend you till "Astral Death"!!!! Including those retrieval artists who have little or no positive, physical-spiritual internet,  retrieval experience or verifications , 99.9 % negative, including Ginny!!! Your  Prized  'Imagination' Bullshit Pupil who has absolutely lied in writing to further her money making and feminist ego bent!!!.....Sorry to rain on your money making parade, Bruce! . Sincerely. Carl."       Adios Ginny. I was hoping you retrieved this post from the archives. As usual with most regular members who delete all their posts, and post back with other usernames, I decided that all my archived posts be available for comment. I could have deleted all my posts like the rest of you/some  here on this forum....Justin and others for example. You have Zero Verification when it comes to retrievals! Include the dead persons physical family for comment? I've never seen or read you posting their physical families comments in any of your posts when you supposedly retrieved their kin!?..Lets put this into the "Too Hard Basket' for you girl!? Carl. Is anything I said not the truth?

Carl,

you obviously have some interest in afterlife knowledge otherwise you wouldn't be here, I can't believe its pure mischief making.What I can't understand is why you expect Ginny's verifications to be your verifications. Suppose she did supply certain confirming details, your belief system will always have an 'out' - it was all collusion, delusion etc. This is why I am puzzled when  you paint Moen as some kind of Svengali figure, on the contrary he has always said you need your own verifications - second-hand ones won't do.

The question is how do you get those verifications ? A ' I demand proofs and I demand them now ! ' attitude which comes up from time to time on this board doesn't cut it. It doesn't work that way. Its much more subtle than that. I have some sympathy for the proof-demander as coming from a scientific background 20 years ago I 'knew' it was all hokum.

The real catch-22 situation is that those verifications don't come with a rigid mind-set and that rigid mind-set doesn't change without verifications ! Stale-mate. However, what can change it is a gentle loosening up of the Medusa mind-set. For me it was reading an impeccable  scientific report that I couldn't dismiss out of hand or an experience of a trusted family member. But what will do it for each person is unique to that person - we are all individuals. All I know is that without that 'loosening' up all evidence to the contrary falls on stony ground.

Good luck on your journey.  :)

Berserk2 wrote on Feb 7^th, 2013 at 4:53pm:

The appearance of being "stuck" in a locked-in historical scene seems to be a standard feature of hauntings.  But does this mean that when the "trapped" soul manifests, it also concretizes the illusory presence of a cast of characters existing in that period, but currently present only as an empty thought forms?  In the elevator women's shared civil war scenario, was only one deceased soldier "present" against a background of several empty thought forms of surgeons, war wounded, etc.?    When Vicky experienced the empty 4th floor, was she in fact sharing a thought form of that floor with a discarnate spirit whose presence was kept secret?   In other words, was she present in a parallel construct of that floor, which she might have needed if she were to have a shared NDE with a soul dying on that floor?  When soul retrievals are performed, is the perception of a cartoony setting merely a reflection of the retrievee's thought forms?  When we contact a discarnate spirit during ADCs or NDEs, how much of what we see is a set of multiple thought forms emanating from that spirit?  How can we diffierentiate these thought forms from the genuine presence of other spirits and independent geographical locales in spirit planes? When Robert Bruce has OBE visits to astral Rehab centers, he says that the "staff" (wandering nurses, nurses at desks, etc.) seem to be merely thought forms who can't be meaningfully engaged, but the visiting parents of the deceased in the rehab center seem to be the true parents?  What kinds of holographic games are being played during NDEs and ADCs anyway?  Do we really need to bring in "My Big Toe" here?  Don

Don,

You're asking the same or similar questions I've wondered about for awhile now and I'm not sure if I have any concrete answers, except that most anything is possible within consciousness so maybe there are no concrete answers. 

If these things are looked at through a MBT viewpoint they'd likely be explained as the viewer switching reality frames or changing their focus of awareness for a few moments.  In essence, they may encounter a discarnate being "stuck" in a reality of the discarnate's own creation/experience.  (i.e. a soldier that died in battle.)  The viewer can see and interact with the discarnate, but all other information surrounding the circumstances comes from the historical database, which the viewer has accessed.  (i.e. surgeons, wounded men, etc. as in your first scenario.)  These images only appear to the viewer as a way to communicate the information stored in the historical database and perhaps that's why they appear as thought forms.  Visual images are very common ways to receive information from a database, though hearing, smelling, feeling, etc. can occur as well.

It may be possible that the viewer entered into a reality that was created by the discarnate or perhaps even groups of discarnates so that the awareness of the energy is present at the physical location.  Below is a link to a recent post by TC that I found interesting.  It seems to touch on this idea.
http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7636&p=65583#p65583

I had to go through a few belief system crashes to allow myself to be open minded enough to allow myself to consider new information and gain understanding from that new information, yet I strive to remain skeptical enough so that what I learn/test/experience doesn't turn into yet another belief system.  Luckily... or not, I seem to be a natural born analyzer, which I find myself doing almost constantly.  Not necessarily always a good thing because it increases the uncertainty levels to uncomfortable limits. lol ::)

Kathy

Carl and others,

Years back, when Ginny was more active in her retrieval work and was posting her experiences, I was probably her chief nemesis,  but not because I opposed her retrieval claims on ideological grounds; rather, because her retrievals, if genuine, were as important as any breakthrough work in postmortem consciousness.  Yes, I pressed her for verifications, partly because of my disillusionment with my own unverified retrieval of Janet.  But if I'm wrong about my retrieval of Janet, then my efforts in that regard are as important as anything I've ever atempted, because these efforts imply that I have an eternal opportunity to bless and (if necessary) retrieve each soul who has crossed my path without my maximizing my chance to make a decisive difference in their lives.   So Ginny's retrieval work merits skeptical respect and follow-up precisely because it is potentially so trail-blazing and crucial to the concept that PUL never need give up permanently on anyone. 

That said,  there are 3 important concessions to make to Ginny's research: (1) Her penetrations of  "the inky black void" usually occurred during waking consciousnessness; and so, the layer of consciousness in which she operated is fascinating in its elusiveness and needs more careful study.

(2) If you consider her methodology, there is no reason to believe that her guides would place a premium on my skeptical research orientation; rather, these guides simply wanted an incarnate soul (in this case, Ginny) to exploit her incarnate advantages in retrievals.  The reasons for such advantages were never clear to me, though I can't deny them!

(3) Ginny is a bright lady who wanted to comply with verification requests, and indeed, did have a verification of sorts in her retrieval of her grandfather by an etheric sea.  As I recall, the verification involved a later confirmation of her grandpa's Masonic beliefs, when in fact Ginny didn't even know he had been a Mason at the time of the retrieval.  Ginny may have been performing vital soul work, which simply wasn't conducive to the confirmatory parameters that I longed for!  I hope she continues.  Perhaps, unexpected breakthroughs await her.

Don

Berserk2 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2013 at 4:35pm:

Carl and others, Years back, when Ginny was more active in her retrieval work and was posting her experiences, I was probably her chief nemesis,  but not because I opposed her retrieval claims on ideological grounds; rather, because her retrievals, if genuine, were as important as any breakthrough work in postmortem consciousness.  Yes, I pressed her for verifications, partly because of my disillusionment with my own unverified retrieval of Janet.  But if I'm wrong about my retrieval of Janet, then my efforts in that regard are as important as anything I've ever atempted, because these efforts imply that I have an eternal opportunity to bless and (if necessary) retrieve each soul who has crossed my path without my maximizing my chance to make a decisive difference in their lives.   So Ginny's retrieval work merits skeptical respect and follow-up precisely because it is potentially so trail-blazing and crucial to the concept that PUL never need give up permanently on anyone.  That said,  there are 3 important concessions to make to Ginny's research: (1) Her penetrations of  "the inky black void" usually occurred during waking consciousnessness; and so, the layer of consciousness in which she operated is fascinating in its elusiveness and needs more careful study. (2) If you consider her methodology, there is no reason to believe that her guides would place a premium on my skeptical research orientation; rather, these guides simply wanted an incarnate soul (in this case, Ginny) to exploit her incarnate advantages in retrievals.  The reasons for such advantages were never clear to me, though I can't deny them! (3) Ginny is a bright lady who wanted to comply with verification requests, and indeed, did have a verification of sorts in her retrieval of her grandfather by an etheric sea.  As I recall, the verification involved a later confirmation of her grandpa's Masonic beliefs, when in fact Ginny didn't even know he had been a Mason at the time of the retrieval.  Ginny may have been performing vital soul work, which simply wasn't conducive to the confirmatory parameters that I longed for!  I hope she continues.  Perhaps, unexpected breakthroughs await her. Don

Don. You are so much an intellectual-religious "Smart Ass!" But your comments about Ginny ring so true. LOL! Ha, Ha, Ha. She's back because she's lost again. Be gentle with her, old boy. Carl. 

But your comments about Ginny ring so true. LOL! Ha, Ha, Ha. She's back because she's lost again. Be gentle with her, old boy. Carl. 

Carl, please at least try to read my posts. It is you, not Ginny, who is the lost ball in the tall weeds.  When she was active, she honed her gifts and applied Bruce's methods admirably.  Her retrievals, however assessed, were waking explorations of levels of consciousness that are poorly understood.  In that sense, she is a pioneer who exempifies more than you or myself the experiences this website was designed to showcase.  Her retrievals, if genuine, (and I don't know for a fact that they were not) were profound acts of liberation performed for needy trapped souls.  You, on the other hand, have never to my knowledge expressed even one helpful or creative idea.  You only ridicule valuable contributors to this site.  The only skill you display is that of a troll who at times excretes sufficient venom to discourage intelligent discussion. 

Don

Berserk2 wrote on Feb 11^th, 2013 at 2:01am:

The only skill you display is that of a troll who at times excretes sufficient venom to discourage intelligent discussion.

That is proper English. That is the kind of English I would like to speak. But I am Dutch.

Don et al-

A fisherman will keep returning to his favorite spot as long as the fish keep biting.  When they stop, he moves on to find a different place.

Same with Carl.  As long as we keep taking his bait, he'll keep posting his insults.

He has nothing of substance to contribute, and his only motive is to keep stirring the pot.  Why continue to respond to him? That's exactly what he wants and we're playing right into his pointless game.

R

Vicky, your experience as an apparent solitary walking around a hospital 4th floor with lots of people initially invisible to you may well iillustrate a neglected point repeatedly made by Jesus.  Jesus often tells people that the Kingdom of God is upon them, is in their midst without no visible sign, and can become very "near" to them.  By "kingdom," Jesus means both the realm and reign of God.  So the question is, how can this be experienced?

In your experience, as in shared NDEs, you actually seem to have found yourself tranported by that hidden elevator into a different spiritual realm overlapping a crowded earthly realm.  Perhaps, your presence in that realm held potential for paranormal experiences that eluded you due to your understandable puzzlement over what was really happening.  I liken this to my occasional experiences of finding myself in a special "zone" in which I somehow know that wonderful synchronicities are about to happen.  For example, I'm worried about reports of seniors in assisted living places having to skip lunch because they attend my services; and I get an impulse to enter a book store and explain my concern to the first person I encounter, and he says, "My wife is in charge of that; don't worry--I'll explain the problem and she'll take care of it."  And so, she did. Or I feel an irrational compulsion to enter a particular restaurant for breakfast, and am immediately accosted by a father who tells me about his son's learning disability.  I feel called to volunteer for specialized tutoring and the Dad is so grateful.  In all such cases, it seemed that I was in a different realm or dimension in which new paranormal possibilities seemed obvious in a way that would never happen in ordinary consciousness.  I sense that subtle but unrecognized transitions to different realms or dimensions occur at times without our awareness, with the result that amazing opportunties for service are missed.  Jesus' teaching in this regard is too mysterious and metaphysical for modern Christians to embrace. 

ADDENDUM: 2 minutes after I composed this post, I felt an impulse to get a book from my car to show a lady in my church.  While outside, a woman I hardly know, Rihanna, shouted my name from the college steps across the street.  She asked me to help her and her troubled daughter with tutoring/ mentoring and I agreed to do so.  Just prior to composing this post, I had eaten breakfast at a local fast food place.  There, two young boys asked me to tutor them and teach them how to play chess, hearts, and bridge.  I consulted with their mother and we will work out a time for me to do so.  Their Mom also wants me to help them improve their writing and communication skills.  I believe I could flourish in different "zones" of synchronistic encounters like these more often if I could more easily escape from the trap of living in my head too much.  Too often I quite plausibly talk myself out of revelatory impulses on rational grounds.  For me, following my instincts is almost always wiser than listening to the inner voice of logic. 

Don

Hi Don,

I thank you for engaging me in sharing my experience here.  That special zone you're talking about is the same thing I know and have experienced many times in my life.  It's a "going with the flow" state of "mindlessness".  By that I mean, when we are at our most comfortable, baseline, self, able to move in whatever direction we're naturally drawn to, then we are in our greatest alignment with our higher self and the communication and connection is most open.  That's why all those synchronicities happen so perfectly.  I love those kinds of moments. 

All too often I am driven by what I need to do, by a schedule, planning or juggling different things all at once.  I have to remind myself to sometimes just go with the flow of my intuition and just do whatever I'm naturally pulled toward, without analyzing or being too logical.  Like you said, if you could stop living in your head too much.  Yes, all too often I'm overthinking and planning what I do or should be doing instead of just being in the moment. 

I find that pulling all my conscious thought into the moment and just being there, just feeling, just observing the moment is what makes those "zones" possible.  And to do that I have to practice doing it.  I have to stop myself from constantly planning and preparing.  Being a single mom of 2 high school kids, I'm constantly thinking about our schedules, or who needs what, does laundry need to be done, what do I need to add to my grocery list, what errands do I have to run this week, etc.  So when I get any down time, I use meditation this way...to pull my awareness all to present moment and when I'm done I "move" in the direction I'm naturally pulled, which means that wherever my thoughts go, whatever I wonder about or feel like doing, I allow myself to think or do it rather than switch gears toward logical things.  I'm able to receive answers in that intuitive-guidance level because I'm more present in the current moment/state instead of in my typical scattered-awareness thought processes of day-to-day living. 

Reminds you of being a kid right?  I remember what it was like being a kid.  I would move from one thing to the next without being logical about it.  Playing with whatever pulled me to it.  Or outside daydreaming.  Or riding my bike without thinking about anything.  Even riding in the car, I could just stare out the window.  All those things were wonderful "mindless" states of being, great for facilitating that connection to our higher-self awareness.  It was so easy back then.  Now when I'm driving, of course I have to pay attention to what I'm doing.  But I still sometimes find that I can arrive at my destination not having any memory of having driven.  Good thing we always have some part of our awareness paying attention even when we're off daydreaming somewhere. 

:)


ps--one of my favorite stories of my childhood was mom telling about the time when I was about 6 months old.  My brother was 4 and a half and playing outside like he always did, all day long until he was called inside.  One day while mom was changing my diaper on the changing table, she turned to grab something.  Right then I rolled off the table.  She saw my brother walk into the room and put out his hands and catch me.  He didn't say anything, just went right back out to play.  Later when asked, he said he just felt like coming in at that moment and he didn't know why.  The whole thing was so "instinctual" for him, he didn't question it, just followed the impulse.  I of course know that that whole scene was guided.  Someone was looking out for me that day!

Quote:

Jesus often tells people that the Kingdom of God is upon them, is in their midst without no visible sign, and can become very "near" to them. By "kingdom," Jesus means both the realm and reign of God. So the question is, how can this be experienced?

Don,

This reminds of "...in Him we live and move and have our being..." To me it is like we are always within the realm and reign of God.  We are always "there" and it is only our focus of awareness that changes.  We are a spiritual being that is capable of shifting and interposing consciousness into what appears to be a physical reality.  Since the current main focus of awareness is physicality, the moments in which we experience altered states of consciousness or are in the "zone" seem ephemeral.  That's simply because of the physics (laws/rules) we've imposed upon ourselves as spiritual beings. 

We've done this for good reason... to evolve consciousness like little worker bees.  And you're right, if we live more in our heart, rather than our head, we would have more experiences of and within "the realm of God." I usually think of these experiences as inner guidance.  The best, perhaps only way to be in the zone more often is to meditate.  Meditation has been shown to change the brain and it is the brain that acts as a constraint of consciousness for experiencing physicality. 

I meditate 2 or 3 hours a day... about 30 minutes of tai chi every morning, then 30 or so minutes of prayer and meditation in the morning, afternoon and evening.  I've done this for years, but it wasn't long after I'd begun to meditate many years ago that I discovered I would throughout the day be in the zone quite often.  Now it is like I exist in the awareness of two worlds.  Or in other words I'm in the zone much of the time and that permits information to filter through quite easily whenever it is appropriate.  In addition, it's a bit more difficult, but I can access information by using my intent and I will receive the information if it is appropriate, valuable and useful.

When we are in deep meditation (And we can fall into this state many times throughout the day without even being aware of it.) we feel the same qualities that we attribute to God.  We begin to awaken to our true inner divinity... our inner guidance.  Have you ever noticed the deep sense of "I" or "I Am" that we have?  This sense of "I Am" is always the same.  It never changes.  I feel the same sense of "I" now as what I felt as a child.  Sure my character and personality, my likes, dislikes, memories and beliefs have changed, but those are dynamics of my ego, they are not the "I Am" that I have always felt within me.  That has never changed.  And we all feel this "I" that never changes.  It is the feeling of consciousness itself, or perhaps even God as the ground of all being.

Erwin Schrodinger said: "What is this "I"?  You will, on close introspection, find that what you really mean by "I" is the ground-stuff upon which all experiences and memories are collected."

Thomas Merton said: "If I penetrate to the depths of my own existence, to the indefinable 'Am' that is myself in its deepest roots, then through this deep center I pass into the infinite 'I Am', which is the very name of the Almighty."

The more I think about these two quotes, the more profound they seem to me. The deep, deep intimacy felt within is ineffably indescribable. I've always thought of this as God within, even as a child.  It is more than thought or belief.  It is feeling your very being, the Kingdom of God.

Kathy

PS to Isee:  This would apply to your thread, so I won't repeat myself.
 
btw, great threads Isee and Vicky.