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Message started by PauliEffectt on Jan 12th, 2013 at 8:58am

Title: Scientific proof - god does not exist
Post by PauliEffectt on Jan 12th, 2013 at 8:58am
Normally you could claim that science and religions are two different things.

But scientist Dr Michael Persinger now believes that he has discovered proof
that god doesn't exist. By the use of the so called Koren Helmet, Dr Persinger
can show that the god concept only is inside yourself, video link -> here.

Title: Re: Scientific proof - god does not exist
Post by isee on Jan 12th, 2013 at 10:02am
It seems really important to you to define religion in a certain way. Perhaps releasing beliefs is your mission in life right now.

But, this video does not prove "God" does not exist. It proves that the brain reacts to certain stimuli under conditions that the scientist is creating.

Focusing on evidence such as this totally dismisses the cumulative evidence available elsewhere about experiences which occur while people's brains are not active, in which they fully describe activities around them when they are completely unconscious. People then move on to other experiences which can hardly be described.

Reducing human beings to objects does them a disservice.

The brain is a kind of machine that allows consciousness to work through it. The body is also part of that consciousness experience, as shown by those who have accepted organ transplants and then felt characteristics of the donor, such as quite pronounced appreciations for things they did not have before accepting the donor organ.

The video you posted in no way proves that consciousness does not exist outside of the brain. The brain is an interface.

I'm not a scientist, but it is obvious to me that this experiment proves only that if you stimulate the brain in a certain place, such and such can happen. Showing numerous people practicing their traditional spiritual group activities and historical art alongside the experiment is also overreaching, and really almost insulting.

Reducing human experience to simple survival techniques to reduce anxiety....I don't know what to say. Sure, let the scientists learn more. But it's really a sad commentary in my personal opinion. We know there is more to it than that.

Title: Re: Scientific proof - god does not exist
Post by O on Jan 12th, 2013 at 10:04am
I agree with isee's take on consciousness and the brain. I would add that poking inside a radio receiver can create all kinds of effects, but does not prove that the radio programme comes from inside the machine. ;)

I've seen experiments that create relevatory experiences by stimulating the brain in various ways. The scientists claim that this means the experience is hallucination. But this is faulty logic. It could just as well mean that the experience is available all the time, we're just not tuned into it.

Title: Re: Scientific proof - god does not exist
Post by PauliEffectt on Jan 12th, 2013 at 11:43am
Well, it was a joke sort of, as opposition to all those "Proof of God" or
"Proof that God created Earth" posts & clips on the net and also among
some here.

I think one could use the Koren Helmet in other arguments. For example,
it could be claimed to be something similar to Hemi-Sync, but with the
difference that scientist hasn't taken on that view. :)

In the clip, the young woman points to several entities, almost like she sees
guides in a regular Focus 21 Hemi-Sync session!

Title: Re: Scientific proof - god does not exist
Post by isee on Jan 12th, 2013 at 2:06pm
:)

I was kinda thinking when I first saw it was a ridiculous looking helmet, this must be some kind of joke....


Title: Re: Scientific proof - god does not exist
Post by PauliEffectt on Jan 13th, 2013 at 6:13am
Yes, the helmet didn't exactly look like it was made for that exact scientific purpose.
In fact, it more seemed to have some head protection potential. Anyway, if you go
look the net, there are lots of videos with themes around "Atheists proved Wrong",
even this forum has Proof of God posts, which not only are stupid in many atheists
views, but also ignore some other religions, so I thought a little of the opposite on
the light side could help, even if the scientist in the video seems sincere.

After all, Focus 25 is a place where people get stuck, they don't meet any god.

Thinking of the helmet in the video, I can see it's purpose is to remain fixed
over the head, and only an approved crash helmet does that excellent. The
equipment which induces the altered state of consciousness has to remain
fixed during the experiment. The choice of such a helmet makes me believe
that the scientific research itself runs on a low budget.

Title: Re: Scientific proof - god does not exist
Post by O on Jan 14th, 2013 at 9:24am
Regarding Focus 25 - I don't think it's truly a "stuck" state. I have some problems with that label for reasons I want to explain:

I would rather expect that people move on when they have exhausted the belief structures keeping them there, and that this is a rather normal process that simply takes a part of the "time" spent in the afterlife.

Similarly I would think of the states considered hells.

Title: Re: Scientific proof - god does not exist
Post by isee on Jan 14th, 2013 at 1:40pm
Interesting point...seems likely to me that if there is a way out a person would find it eventually, no matter where they are located. Even so, a single minute in a hellish location would, without a doubt, seem far too long.

Title: Re: Scientific proof - god does not exist
Post by O on Jan 16th, 2013 at 9:29am
I see hells more like a purgatory. They are not punishment by intention, but a bleeding off of the energies that keep you there. Your energy attracts you to the state, and once that energy is gone, you move beyond it.

I'd tend to think comparatively few people would spend longer time there, and that a comparatively high number of people begin their journey through the afterlife in other, less "stuck" states.

Like for example described here: http://www.kurtleland.com/astral-projection-log/2010/199-the-lowest-four-subplanes-of-the-astral-plane

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