http://www.christianpost.com/news/neurosurgeon-who-doubted-afterlife-now-convinced-its-real-82984/

Funny,
I clicked on to post another article about the same guy. I am curious to see how his experience has affected his Christianity. And I am also curious about how he spent the last four years since it happened. Very uplifting.

yeah he's director of research at TMI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsSYpuUh_iI&feature=youtu.be

I assume he is still there, a quick perusal of the Newsweek article didn't seem to uncover that bit of info.

DocM wrote on Oct 9^th, 2012 at 8:45pm:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/neurosurgeon-who-doubted-afterlife-now-convinced-its-real-82984/

A typical Christian reply to an OBE! One minute he's discounting his OBE. The next moment he's validating it! ..He goes from a 'Faithful Christian'..to a skeptic in his writings. Typical 'cash' generating spiel from the 'Christian' and "New Age' money making gravy train! Harvey. PS. Here's a link from an Australian News Website today..
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8545600/doctor-sees-heaven-in-out-of-body-journey ;  

harvey wrote on Oct 10^th, 2012 at 1:10am:

DocM wrote on Oct 9th, 2012 at 8:45pm: http://www.christianpost.com/news/neurosurgeon-who-doubted-afterlife-now-convinced-its-real-82984/ A typical Christian reply to an OBE! One minute he's discounting his OBE. The next moment he's validating it! ..He goes from a 'Faithful Christian'..to a skeptic in his writings. Typical 'cash' generating spiel from the 'Christian' and "New Age' money making gravy train! Harvey. PS. Here's a link from an Australian News Website today.. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8545600/doctor-sees-heaven-in-out-of-body-journey

.ninemsn.com.au/world/8545600/doctor-sees-heaven-in-out-of-body-journey

For an interesting detailed interview, see "Dr. Eben Alexander's Near-Death Experience" on Youtube via Skeptico.com

This is the first NDE I've encountered in which someone can't recall his earth life.  Does his diseased brain somehow determine the shape of his NDE (riding on a butterfly, etc.)?  Typical elements of his experience include: new colors, a sense of greater vividness than healthy earthlife consciousness, a different experience of time, at one point, encounters exclusively with deceased friends and family memberls, and an experience of PUL emanating from what seems to be God and Christ.

The initial experiience of an underground cave with roots hanging from above intrigues me.  I've heard about similar experiences, perhaps misidentified as hell, a nd wonder if this is archetypal.  The butterflies also seem archetypal, a symbol of resurrection life from a cocoon.  In fact, archetypal experiences seem very common in NDEs (e. g. Colton Burpo's NDE at  age 4).  Our grasp of the nature and role of archetypes does not seem to have advanced much since Carl Jung; and his analysis, though brilliant, is still rather rudimentary.  I will probably buy Eben's forthcoming book.

Don

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwLgxniI7KM

interesting excerpt from a panel discussion in which Eben Alexander discusses the "butterfly girl" -- very heartfelt -- an example of what happens in NDEs which cannot be explained by the typical skeptic's point of view

I didn't realize when I first posted this, that Alexander was director at TMI now.  That is quite a change from neurosurgery (which is fine).  I would hope that he brings his scientific background with him to create reasonable controlled studies in consciousness. 

It  is clear that what we perceive (butterfly girls, earthworm views, etc.) is very much influenced by our belief systems and perceptual abilities when we are in a mental plane.  So one thing I don't look for personally is to adopt another person's idea of heaven. 

One of my closest friends is a neurosurgeon in NY.  They are a small tight-knit community (not many training slots in university programs).  I plan to get some information about him, just out of interest.


Matthew

Yes, expertise in the most relevant related fields is often lacking in NDE and OBE research. Eben was adppted and met his birth parents and siblings only after his NDE. One of his birth sisters, whom he never met, died at a young age and is positively identifed by Eben as the butterfly girl.  That is a very impressive verification, given the fact that Eben never know about her at the time.   

I also recommend the coast-to-coast interview on "shared NDEs" that can be found on the lower right hand side of the same Youtube site.  Raymond Moody shares mind-blowing NDEs here. 

Ordered Alexander's book and just got it in the mail yesterday.  So far seems very persuasive, genuine and...well scientific, I guess. 

Do you really think he's just doing it for the money?

Hummmm...that guy looks genuine, but he didn't die, so we can't take for granted his NDE. Skeptics may be right saying he had a burst of DMT when he awoke from coma and he might have made the "dream" in a few minutes before being totally lucid.
My 2€cent worth thought...  ::)

The TV show 20/20 tomorrow night at 10 Eastern time will feature Alexander and his experience.

R

Thanks for the info, Rondele.

Interesting. All of a sudden, it seems like this sort of thing is all over the TV. Why now? Maybe there is something to the ideas of 12-12-12 world changes  ;)

The culture does frustrate me in that it seems to take an Exeter/Duke/Harvard Med kind of path to impress the "people" into listening. Undoubtedly this will lead to expanded discussion on this., though as Claudio points out, it will bring the nay-sayers out in force. (they will pobably claim that the relevant date is 10-31!   [smiley=evil.gif] ). Another person getting media attention now is MAry Neal, also an MD.  Why doesn't ABC have Anita Moorjani? though I gues she has gotten to play John the Baptist here. Also the young boy, Colin, from that book Heaven Can Wait   (I thinbk) has gotten TV exposure. This culture is so celebrity driven that it looks to certain personalities rather than to straight evidence.

Still all of this is happening rather quickly now.And if our souls make these choices for us, then both Eben's and Mary's made tough roads for them. (Mary lost a son , and she saw that in her NDE before it happened.) Wonder where it is all going?

So I plan to watch tonight. Will we all be there? Is this almost as good as meeting at the crystal?

_________

ps to Bets...ok I was good I didn't say Dook

Not me, Lucy. I'm on the other side of the splash.
But if you look carefully in your crystal you might see me smiling there.  ;)

Here a link to a critique of a critique of Eben Alexander's claim.  There is a lot if talk about this!

http://www.bernardokastrup.com/2012/10/sam-harris-critique-of-eben-alexander.html

He concludes:
"To dismiss Alexander's experience on the basis of warped speculation about residual neocortical function amounts to dismissing extremely interesting, anomalous data. Something weird has happened, and true skeptics should take a critical look at it while retaining a healthy dose of skepticism towards the standard explanations too; that's how science historically has moved forward."

not to worry...program will be on-line at some point...

Also BBC News had to one-up ABC they had a phone interview with Alexander after I posted....it may be on their website now, they put their stuff there but I didn't check yet...

whoa looking for that, I see that Alexander is all over the news! Amazing!

Thanks Calypso , can't get site to load right now, must be busy!!!! I will try later.

Alexander was also on Fox&Friends this morning, but I only caught the last minute or two.

So Fox News Channel is giving him a forum as well.  Actually FNC has done more of this sort of thing over the years than the so-called mainstream media, much to their credit.

R

The video address the critique of a skeptic named Sam Harris.  Such skeptics lso often forget the powerful verifications accompanying NDEs.  Thus, Harris's critique of Eben Alexander's NDE overlooks the presnce of his late biological sister on the butterfly wing.  Eben was adopted before he even knew he had such a sister, but confirmed her existence, appearance (through photos), and death, when he finally met his  birth family. 

Don

TMI is where Western Minds should be looking. If you look into the history and the people who have been there ,like Tom Campbell, you will be pleasantly surprised.
Also forget if a subjective experience is real or not and go experience reality and prove things for yourself as this is it's nature and only way to prove things conclusively.
And what the majority think is not important at all as
they are belief bound and too fearful to ever go it alone and prove things.
Btw someone like Eckhart Tolle only gets you to the state you need to be to explore, other-words, his 'pointing' gets you to the starting blocks  8-)

Bernardo's site is interesting.

In all this discussion, I find something puzzling. The materialists insist that the only form of existence is material, and that conciousness therefore ends at death.

All the arguments around this seem to focus on the dying end of things. But the whole argument seems to me to be based on something I have long considered to be an untestable assumption: the life, and therefore conciousness, begins at conception.

I know of no known properties of atoms that really would explain why life seems to begin when a sperm and an egg get together in a particular fashion. Atoms combine with atoms and molecules with molecules all the time without generation of (human) conciousness. There must be something else going on in humans. And although genes explain a lot about how molecules get organized and flow around, genes really don't explain the impetus for that flow.

So, philosophically at least, I don't understand the resistance to thinking that conciousness might operate outside the body, since I see no basis for thinking it originates in the body. We just always assume it does, and I don't think that is verifiable.

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/eben-alexanders-near-death-experience-pt-1

and

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/eben-alexanders-near-death-experience-pt-2

pedigree thanks for the links

pretty interesting Dr. Alexander visits Dr Oz. (Is that everything from A to Z? : D   )

So, there is another clip there  about how to experience that Heaven without having a near-death experience. And Dr. A then proceeds to say the way to do it is to use binaural beats.

I was a little disappointed because in the TMI recordings I have used, I have never visited that butterfly place or anything near to it! I sure would like to! without nearly dying too.

So I am wondering a couple of things.

Because of his NDE, does Eben Alexander have a much different experience with binaural beats than I do?

Another thing is, without explaining how to use the beats to achieve this, will those who try and don't see butterflies be even more cynical about the reality of the NDE experience?

Is it that the recordings that are easily available do not have the frequencies that enable one to reach a deep enough state to "see butterflies"? I think tgecks has made complaints to that effect before.

The binaural beat recordings offered are not labeled TMI but come from another source. I have not tried them.

Comments, anyone?

If you don't succeed in visiting a butterfly place maybe you don't attune pure enough to it. Maybe you are too much bound to Earth in your subconscious or so. Perhaps you still expect things where you should not expect at all.

Just my more or less sober earthbound guesses.

Or maybe you should stop eating meat. Just guessing, nothing else.

Lucy wrote on Nov 17^th, 2012 at 4:35am:

I was a little disappointed because in the TMI recordings I have used, I have never visited that butterfly place or anything near to it! I sure would like to! without nearly dying too. So I am wondering a couple of things. Because of his NDE, does Eben Alexander have a much different experience with binaural beats than I do? Another thing is, without explaining how to use the beats to achieve this, will those who try and don't see butterflies be even more cynical about the reality of the NDE experience? Is it that the recordings that are easily available do not have the frequencies that enable one to reach a deep enough state to "see butterflies"? I think tgecks has made complaints to that effect before. The binaural beat recordings offered are not labeled TMI but come from another source. I have not tried them. Comments, anyone?

Hi Lucy,

Eben is the head of research at TMI ,as you pointed out, so just mentioning binaural beats would get people quickly looking them up on the Internet finding Hemisync as one of the most popular out there. A bit of marketing in a round about way I'd say ;-)

Binaural Beats are a tool that may or may not help you achieve a certain level of awareness. If you keep at it for the long haul I'd say they will definitely have an effect with trial and error. The thing is with our Western mind set we want things accomplished straight away so when after a few tries it doesn't work we give up. I would say to you put aside half an hour everyday for 3 months and  if it doesn't work after the 3 months  then I'd give up on one frequency and try another. Looking at it as a long haul scientific approach is the key. Also don't fall into the trap of thinking that there is some butterfly place 'out there' where Eben visited. It is the experience not the seemingly objective reality you are looking for.If you have a genuine intent to grow in awareness you will get all the help you need :-)

This is a link to a great a workshop talk by Tom Campbell , who helped create Hemi sync at TMI, which  starts about the use of Binaural beats and experiencing the Greater reality. http://youtu.be/lRar8IOwic8?t=21s

Any questions ask.

I referred a man I met while I was a patient this week,  to this site because we were discussing spirits in hospital and he had coincidentally recommended this book to me.

I was in hospital nine days and was very glad to get Proof of Heaven on my Kindle so that I had a good read while there. I recommend it and would love to discuss it further,  :D with others who have read it too.

Lucy wrote on Nov 17^th, 2012 at 4:35am:

The thing is with our Western mind set we want things accomplished straight away so when after a few tries it doesn't work we give up.

I will try 5 THOUSAND TIMES

If it takes 5 THOUSAND ONE TIMES that is one too many. ;-)

Focus27 wrote on Dec 1^st, 2012 at 10:38am:

Lucy wrote on Nov 17th, 2012 at 4:35am: The thing is with our Western mind set we want things accomplished straight away so when after a few tries it doesn't work we give up. I will try 5 THOUSAND TIMES If it takes 5 THOUSAND ONE TIMES that is one too many. ;-)

Time more than tries is probably a better way to look at it. How about try for 5 months and if that doesn't work try a different approach.

I Haven't read the whole book yet but, hey, why should that stop me from beginning to write about it?

There have been several discussions here ...or at last comments...over time about the use of the phrase "unconditional love ". I think the term is redundant to some people or seems to have obscure meaning.

Alexander (easier to type EA) touches on the phrase as being an essential component of what he learned in his experience. He writes in part (P.71-73)


Quote:

Love is...the basis of everything. ...In its purest and most powerful form, this love is unconditional. This is the reality of realities, the incomprehensibly glorious truth of truths that lives and breathes at the core of everything that exists or that ever will exist, and no remotely accurate understanding of who and what we are can be achieved by anyone who does not know it, and embody it in all of their actions. ... The primary hurdle that most NDE subjects must jump is not how to reacclimate to the limitations of the earthly world ... but how to convey what the love they experienced out there actually feels like. ...The unconditional love and acceptance that I experienced on my journey is the single most important discovery I have ever made or will ever make, and as hard as I know it's going to be to unpack the other lessons I learned out there, I know in my heart that sharing this very basic message - one so simple that most children readily accept it - is the most important task I have.

So there are at least two questions to consider:

Are NDEs real?

and

What are the messages people bring back from their experiences and what is the significance of those messages?

Lucy wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2012 at 7:08pm:

So there are at least two questions to consider: Are NDEs real? and What are the messages people bring back from their experiences and what is the significance of those messages?

It looks to me as if you want to start over and over again and don't want to build on the information that is available around the world.
To me it looks as if you don't want to move on and keep stuck at the beginning.

Quote:

It looks to me as if you want to start over and over again and don't want to build on the information that is available around the world. To me it looks as if you don't want to move on and keep stuck at the beginning.

or maybe I just wanted to start a conversation about the book....

Lucy wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2012 at 8:51am:

or maybe I just wanted to start a conversation about the book....

That's a heck of a conversation, Lucy.
You really know how to start it up, don't you?  ;)

DocM wrote on Oct 13^th, 2012 at 10:35am:

I didn't realize when I first posted this, that Alexander was director at TMI now.  That is quite a change from neurosurgery (which is fine).  I would hope that he brings his scientific background with him to create reasonable controlled studies in consciousness.  It  is clear that what we perceive (butterfly girls, earthworm views, etc.) is very much influenced by our belief systems and perceptual abilities when we are in a mental plane.  So one thing I don't look for personally is to adopt another person's idea of heaven.  One of my closest friends is a neurosurgeon in NY.  They are a small tight-knit community (not many training slots in university programs).  I plan to get some information about him, just out of interest. Matthew- did you get any additional info on him? R Matthew