Wondering how many here:
1) believe consciousnesses/personality survives death

2) have experienced something which you believe to be objective (not just some internal feeling) which leads you to believe that there is life after death

Thank you for your replies.

Ottawa:

I've had a lot of experiences that have enabled me to understand that our consciousness doesn't come to an end after our bodies die.

Recoverer, can you expand on your experiences? I would be interested to know.

I have not had any personal experiences but can tell you that my mom (now 70) and her brother (now 74) together saw an apparition of the Virgin Mary when they were children. They were home alone a few years after WWII in a small town in Europe. My mom went to the kitchen to get more ink and saw the Virgin Mary (she had a veil on and hands clasped in prayer) floating along high up on the kitchen wall. She called my brother who came in and also saw the apparition.The apparition did not communicate with them and just proceeded to float across the length of the wall and disappear. My mom and uncle say the apparition was not fuzzy/blurry but as clear as a painting.

My mom and uncle were not religious when they saw the apparition-their mom was Catholic so the kids had seen painting of the Virgin Mary. Neither my mom nor uncle became more religious after this experience. They still wonder what it was all about and also wonder if there is a God, etc.

Based on this account, my mind is open to their being the possibility of an afterlife, where our consciousness continues to survive.

I've experienced the spirit World. On some occasions I did so in a way where I was absolutely certain of what I was understanding. I understood in a way that is beyond what our intellectual minds can figure out.

I've also communicated with spirits a lot. Such communication has taken place in a way where I know that more than my imagination was involved.

On some occasions I received information about things I didn't know about and was able to verify later. There were two occasions when I heard a voice say an Earthquake is going to take place, and then on each occasion an Earthquake took place.

recoverer, would you say you are psychic/medium?

I am curious as to how you received your communications-are they sounds in your head or images in your heard, etc?

I am not a psychic/medium. When it comes to receiving information from spirits, I do so in various ways. The main way is by being shown symbolic visual images. Sometimes this imagery comes in the form of a short waking dream (messages can also be received through regular dreams). Sometimes I'll hear a voice or receive thoughts.

How do you know messages/voices come from spirits and not your own mind (ie subconscious mind)?

The issue is that you are looking for afterlife proof/evidence that is not internal.

The bottom line?

You are looking for proof of a metaphysical existence but so skeptical that you need practically a psychical manifestation of this meta-psychical existence in order to believe in it!

The only psychical proof of metaphysical existence is materialization mediums... and I don't recommend a belief in them. Leave belief in materialization mediums in Victor Zammits kooky hands.

Focus 27, what do you mean by metaphysical existence? How would the consciousness exist metaphysically after our bodies die?

Because of the alleged existence of "spirit"

I have had spiritual guidance ever since I left my parental home.
For my first two jobs they showed me in advance where I would come to work. I was very skeptical about it but when it happened I had to admit that the visions and information were true. Such experiences have happened on different other occasions as well.

It´s impossible for me to convince another person because in the end it´s only my words that I have to give, and the information I received was always meant for me personal.
It did help me to accept that there is life after death. The visions that were given to me stood bright in my memory like the light of a lighthouse at night. Personal memories of my own experiences in the past tend to fade away quite easily, but the visions I was given remained very bright for a very long time.

In the early years I never knew who gave that information to me. They considered that not important. On some occasions they really had a hard time convincing me of what was about to happen because of my reluctance and skeptiscism to accept it. But they told me, they showed me, and they let me feel it on various different occasions. It was absolute impossible for me to deny the information that was given to me.

Later on, after my 40th, I got the notion that my grandfather from my mother´s side was talking to me when I received some info. I never knew him in person, he was already dead when I was born, but I recognized him from pictures I had seen.
He never gave a clear picture of himself when he talked to me, I only more or less sensed it was him. That´s a matter of sensitivity. But he too gave some info of things to happen in the near future, less then two years ahead or so, and those things also came through.

My granddad is a fine man, I hope he does well on the other side.
I´m sure he does, actually.

Mongeblue, very interesting.
Is it possible for you to describe what you "see" or sense when such communication is coming your way that you perceive to be coming to you from some other entity, and not from your own subconscious?
Thanks.

Ottawa:

I briefly answered your question on an earlier post. I'll add that when I communicate with spirits I often feel a presence. I can sense that a presence is there.  When I communicate with friendly spirits I feel love, peace and expansiveness.  There have also been occasions when I felt the bad vibes and bad intentions of an unfriendly spirit.

In a way communicating with spirits is more certain than communicating with people because there is more of a mind to mind connection.



ottawa1 wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 7:08pm:

How do you know messages/voices come from spirits and not your own mind (ie subconscious mind)?

ottawa1:

Like recoverer says, I feel a presence too when a spirit communicates with me.

Examples:
For my second apartment after I left home I received a view inside the home to the backside windows of it. When I was looking for a new home some time later I got into that home I recognized the view and decided that that was the home I had to choose. I lived there for more then fifteen years. But be aware, even though I recognized the view I was still in my own right and freedom to reject the home and go for another place.

They really worked on me for my second job.
I first had an interview in a building with a view on the building where I would later come to work. When I was left alone during that talk I heard a voice near me saying if I could believe that I would come to work there. I frankly answered no, because it was a big international company and I believed my qualities were not good enough for that.
I took on a temporary job somewhere else and about four months later I was invited for a talk with that company. When I drove up there with the building in sight I again heard the voice to me in a kind of teasing way asking me if I believed it now. I said no again, because having a talk is still not having a job.
Later when I was working there on trial and was left alone the voice asked me: well?
Well, I said they were right but that I still had the possibility of rejecting the job and go for another job. But it would kind of childish to reject a job only to prove a spirit wrong for his information. I worked there for more then three years and had a great time overthere.
Also, some time later he pointed me towards a person with whom he said I would get very big problems. I was reluctant, but went up to him to shake hands with him. He was new at that time. Later on I indeed got into very big problems with him.

So they can talk to me, they can show me related images, they can connect in my dreams to convey anything they want and they can also send a blip of energy into my aura which converts to an idea as soon as I pick it up.

I have another post on this forum called: overhere, this way is up! It's in the visitor's links forum. I originally had a different name for that but when I was able to post on that forum I received such a blip and it converted to the name I used. I really like the title. It's short, smart and catchy.

When it comes to the presence, there have been times when a spirit being decided to appear to me with a human-like image, even though such a spirit doesn't actually look like a person. Nevertheless, I could sense that the non-physical person I was looking at is a conscious being, not just a lifeless appearance.

Mogenblue, very interesting experiences. I take it you have had such communications infrequently?

Recoverer, when this spirit appeared to you, was there communication and were in in the wide awake state?

Spirits appear to me in the way I described as I meditate (or lie in bed awake). Therefore, my eyes are closed and I'm wide awake. There have been occasions when I saw their projected images with my eyes open, but mostly while they are closed.

When they send images in such a way body language is a big part of it. They know how to perfectly create a facial expression in order to express the point they are trying to make. The same is true for the rest of body-based image body language.


ottawa1 wrote on May 21^st, 2012 at 3:13pm:

Recoverer, when this spirit appeared to you, was there communication and were in in the wide awake state?

The only way to know the message from spirit is not something you created in your own mind is a complex spirit contact involving most likely a second person such as the sitter / medium combo.

You need the medium to bring out the full name of the deceased and bring out an exact detail the sitter can later verify as true.

Example:

I am getting a message from... Billy Bob.... he says he doesn't like where the tv was moved.

The sitter verifies all information as factual and is even amazed because they personally did know that the tv was moved but did not even consider this being something that the deceased could complain about or bring up.

This rules out telepathy/mind reading as long as, like I said, the sitter did not even consider the fact being brought up until after the fact.

Generally speaking, what we in the business call, a SOLID HIT in a reading like this, is basically guaranteed proof of the supernatural.

It does not explain or guarantee that the message really came from Billy Bob's spirit/entity etc. But it does prove that supernatural phenomenon is reality and not simply an illusion.

And think about that... Scientific proof that supernatural phenomenon has actually legitimate and can be scientifically documented!!!!????

In this best case scenario, with documented proof of supernatural phenomenon actually being legitimate, WHY shouldn't spirits become a viable and more likely conclusion?

I suppose this scenario could be done with one person. But, as I am attempting to explain, the one contacting the "spirit" needs to come up with amazing and fantastic evidence and information that they couldn't even guess at that they could later verify came from "outside."

Please note: As far as I am concerned, almost 100% of The Monroe Institute, mediation and focus level contacts involve make believe information and not scientifically verifiable data. This brings these concepts into a HIGHLY suspicious light.

ottawa1: Yes, they are very infrequent. They can stay away for months or even years as well.

In 2006 on a train in Italy I was on the verge of dozing off when my name was shouted.  I was jarred into full consciousness and saw a lifelike image of a woman I had been engaged to 18 years prior.  Together with her smile at me came an incredible rush of emotions, memories and an overriding sense of love and comfort. As I absorbed this amazing sensation, the image faded but her favorite perfume lingered on my jacket for the rest of the day...my wife even asked where it came from.

Since then the search for what, why and how has led me through amazing discoveries and not belief, but knowledge, of the survival of consciousness after death...which, to me, is simply the casting aside of old clothes, or the body which can no longer be used as a vehicle for our soul. 

Focus27:

I don't agree. There is a way of knowing that is beyond our ordinary every day intellect.  When communicating with a spirit it is possible to know in an inner way that you are in contact with a being that is self conscious.  Such means of confirmation has more strength than means that are based on intellectual appeasement.



Focus27 wrote on May 21^st, 2012 at 11:41pm:

The only way to know the message from spirit is not something you created in your own mind is a complex spirit contact involving most likely a second person such as the sitter / medium combo. You need the medium to bring out the full name of the deceased and bring out an exact detail the sitter can later verify as true. Example: I am getting a message from... Billy Bob.... he says he doesn't like where the tv was moved. The sitter verifies all information as factual and is even amazed because they personally did know that the tv was moved but did not even consider this being something that the deceased could complain about or bring up. This rules out telepathy/mind reading as long as, like I said, the sitter did not even consider the fact being brought up until after the fact. Generally speaking, what we in the business call, a SOLID HIT in a reading like this, is basically guaranteed proof of the supernatural. It does not explain or guarantee that the message really came from Billy Bob's spirit/entity etc. But it does prove that supernatural phenomenon is reality and not simply an illusion. And think about that... Scientific proof that supernatural phenomenon has actually legitimate and can be scientifically documented!!!!???? In this best case scenario, with documented proof of supernatural phenomenon actually being legitimate, WHY shouldn't spirits become a viable and more likely conclusion? I suppose this scenario could be done with one person. But, as I am attempting to explain, the one contacting the "spirit" needs to come up with amazing and fantastic evidence and information that they couldn't even guess at that they could later verify came from "outside." Please note: As far as I am concerned, almost 100% of The Monroe Institute, mediation and focus level contacts involve make believe information and not scientifically verifiable data. This brings these concepts into a HIGHLY suspicious light.

recoverer, so you actually see the face of the spirit communicating with you? and you knew of these people when they were alive?


Also, were you always able to communicate with spirits since a child or did you develop this ability after you started meditating?

Focus27, but the problem with medium messages is that we do not really know whether the medium received the message from the deceased OR whether the medium picked the info up from minds of the living. For example, perhaps the mediums use psi abilities to get info on the deceased from some living person (not even necessarily the sitter) to pick out exact names, cause of death, etc.

usetawuz, if this was a real apparition, would others on the train not have seen it? I would have guessed this was simply your subconscious mind playing tricks on you, but for the perfume which your wife could smell. So that said, very interesting and perhaps the apparition was indeed real (how else could other people smell the perfume later?).

A small percentage of the time I'm shown the face of a person when a spirit communicates to me.  Spirits don't actually look like people. It is a matter of how they choose to appear. Usually I communicate with spirits I didn't know in this World.



ottawa1 wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 4:11pm:

recoverer, so you actually see the face of the spirit communicating with you? and you knew of these people when they were alive? Also, were you always able to communicate with spirits since a child or did you develop this ability after you started meditating?

recoverer, when you see an image are you seeing it in front of you (like an apparition) in the room or is this something you "see" inside your head?

It mainly happens when my eyes are closed.  If you asked this in order to determine if I'm having nothing more than hallucinations, isn't it possible that hallucinations can also happen while eyes are open?

When you speak to a person are you certain that you actually do so? Or do you have a hallucination? My guess is that you believe that you actually speak to a person because this is what your life experience has shown you. The same is true when communicating with spirits. After a while it becomes quite clear that you actually do so.




ottawa1 wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 5:06pm:

recoverer, when you see an image are you seeing it in front of you (like an apparition) in the room or is this something you "see" inside your head?

But it has happened when your eyes are open, yes?

If it just happens when your eyes are closed I would be more suspect that it is your mind creating this inner image which you believe to be some entity that is not being produced by your mind. Mind you, if I had your experiences, perhaps i too would "know" that this was not simply a construct of my own mind.

There are different ways of perceiving spirits. When I have my eyes open I mainly see them as points of light. If such a spirit is powerful enough I'll feel the radiation it emits. But this is relative because as my vibrational rate has increased I feel the impact of appearing spirits to a lesser degree. One poster on this forum stated that you see spirits as points of light when you see them through your crown chakra.

I don't know what chakra a person uses when he (or she) sees them (with eyes open) as people. If I remember correctly, Vicky from this forum sees them as people when her eyes are open.

I can also hear and feel them. There have been occasions when I've heard them enter my house and then I felt their energy move towards my energy. Quite often I feel their energy as it touches by body.






ottawa1 wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 5:44pm:

But it has happened when your eyes are open, yes? If it just happens when your eyes are closed I would be more suspect that it is your mind creating this inner image which you believe to be some entity that is not being produced by your mind. Mind you, if I had your experiences, perhaps i too would "know" that this was not simply a construct of my own mind.

ottawa1 wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 4:16pm:

usetawuz, if this was a real apparition, would others on the train not have seen it? I would have guessed this was simply your subconscious mind playing tricks on you, but for the perfume which your wife could smell. So that said, very interesting and perhaps the apparition was indeed real (how else could other people smell the perfume later?).

I did not consider it an apparition, though she stood before me where there was a divider/table between our seats...she appeared as solid and real as my wife behind her and to the left.  There were no others around me but my sleeping wife in front of me...no one was walking around.  And the level of emotion understanding and memories that came flooding into my mind were sourced outside my mind...it was "pushed" into my mind.

ottawa1 wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 4:13pm:

Focus27, but the problem with medium messages is that we do not really know whether the medium received the message from the deceased OR whether the medium picked the info up from minds of the living. For example, perhaps the mediums use psi abilities to get info on the deceased from some living person (not even necessarily the sitter) to pick out exact names, cause of death, etc.

This is why the medium must report that the television was moved and the spirit does not like it being moved. If you can trust that the sitter did not even ever consider it than how can this be reading the sitters mind?

I do not think you really read and understood my earlier example......

Supposedly there have also been reports of mediums contacting a dead spirit and the sitter did not even know the person was dead.

Kind of hard to imagine the medium is using psi abilities to read the sitters mind when the sitter did not even know xxxx person was dead..... no?

I had a medium reading in which it seemed like we were done. The medium suddenly smiled.

I asked what? What is it?

She said all spirits leave a little differently. When this spirit left, she sang.

Singing was a solid hit as me and the dead woman always sang. She would pick me up and we would sing in her car together before I was able to drive.

I understood your message-the example you give about the moved television is a good one as it would be difficult to believe that the medium simply used psi from living persons to deduce that the spirit did not like the tv being moved, unless the deceased person when alive told a living person they didnt like the tv being moved so the medium picked this info up from the living person...but that is quite the stretch.

[quote author=6F464A5C5A1B1E290 link=1337528247/31#31 date=1338038588]Supposedly there have also been reports of mediums contacting a dead spirit and the sitter did not even know the person was dead.

'yes, if such things happened then another good example of info being picked up from the living via psi being an unlikely explanation.

Regardless as to the afterlife also... I wanted to say....

Let's simply assume for my point that mediums are using mind reading....

Sounds pretty supernatural... doesn't it?

Sounds like something beyond what normal science accepts... doesn't it?

So if you can actually read minds... Who say's the afterlife should be a concept thrown out the window?


THINK ABOUT THAT!!!!!

...yeah...no.

"So if you can actually read minds... Who say's the afterlife should be a concept thrown out the window?"

Good point.

One other final thought that is truly interesting. Think about the way mediums claim to work, they claim to contact spirit and receive messages.

Now, people on here often talk about speaking with spirit yourself, which involves the same basic concept of hearing the dead within your own mind.

Now, the medium you are sitting with, they have no connection with the spirits of loved ones you lost.

Perhaps the spirit you are wishing to contact MUST travel through you first before the message will reach the medium! In this type of scenario, your own mind is just as important as the mediums ability to perform a reading. Going to the medium with cloudy thoughts or doubts is just not the way.

We need to visit a medium with a calm, clear mind, focused on what we wish to achieve. Not a mind filled with fears, panic, and expectations.

Only then can we trust that the medium can even do they're job, which is, in fact, simply providing the messages the spirits are trying to tell US anyways.

I watched what I believe was an infrared camera or something like it. IT showed color coming from the sitter moving to the medium. This to me helps verify my theory on how mediums really work.

usetawuz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 12:06am:

...yeah...no.

...sorry, I meant "yeah!"

Focus27 wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 11:44am:

One other final thought that is truly interesting. Think about the way mediums claim to work, they claim to contact spirit and receive messages. Now, people on here often talk about speaking with spirit yourself, which involves the same basic concept of hearing the dead within your own mind. Now, the medium you are sitting with, they have no connection with the spirits of loved ones you lost. Perhaps the spirit you are wishing to contact MUST travel through you first before the message will reach the medium! In this type of scenario, your own mind is just as important as the mediums ability to perform a reading. Going to the medium with cloudy thoughts or doubts is just not the way. We need to visit a medium with a calm, clear mind, focused on what we wish to achieve. Not a mind filled with fears, panic, and expectations. Only then can we trust that the medium can even do they're job, which is, in fact, simply providing the messages the spirits are trying to tell US anyways. I watched what I believe was an infrared camera or something like it. IT showed color coming from the sitter moving to the medium. This to me helps verify my theory on how mediums really work.

Interesting concepts, Focus.  My mediums have described what they are doing is (in contacting passed loved ones) going through their own guidance and contacting the dead person "over there".  And while "over there" is really "right here", we have no capability to see or hear them, unless we have developed the same senses our medium has.

Our guidance, our past life egos, are apparently all right here with us...there really isn't a "there" as we are all right "here", divided solely by our contractual amnesia and incarnate focus in the third dimension and their energetic existence and larger perspective and understanding of our purpose to remain focused here.

 

Focus27 wrote on May 26^th, 2012 at 2:59pm:

Regardless as to the afterlife also... I wanted to say.... Let's simply assume for my point that mediums are using mind reading.... Sounds pretty supernatural... doesn't it? Sounds like something beyond what normal science accepts... doesn't it? So if you can actually read minds... Who say's the afterlife should be a concept thrown out the window? THINK ABOUT THAT!!!!!

I agree!