What is all your views on Jesus? Especially approaching the most holy weekend of the Christian calendar.

I am Catholic so believe he is the Son of God and the ultimate teacher. However I dont like alot of the things  the church teaches in his name. I thought Jesus said 'love everyone' ?

What does it matter what we think?   I think and know there is a difference between believing in a religion, and knowing something as true based on experience and direct guidance. 

  You have brought up JC and religion plenty of times here, just go and read the old threads relating to JC and religion to see what we think. 

Cool, I was just wondering. I know there are a few Christians here who believe in a loving, non judgemental God. I love that.

jdee190 wrote on Apr 4^th, 2012 at 1:09pm:

Cool, I was just wondering. I know there are a few Christians here who believe in a loving, non judgemental God. I love that.

  Interesting.  Not long ago, you said that you greatly fear Jesus.   If God is Loving and non judgmental, then wouldn't JC be too?  So do you fear God and Jesus, or do you love hearing about how Loving and non-judgemental they are, or you just can't make up your mind?

Whatever the case, I don't believe that one needs to feel uncomfortable about Jesus. The fact of how some people do feel uncomfortable about him shows that fundamentalism really got wrong.

I don't mean to compare Jesus with Bruce Moen one way or the other, but does anybody feel uncomfortable about Bruce? If not, then perhaps there is no need to feel uncomfortable about Jesus.

Jesus: "I found out about unconditional love. It's a wonderful thing."

Fundamentalist: "I'm afraid of you and will worship you so you don't send me to hell for all of eternity."

Jesus: "Uh--that's not what I meant."

wrote on Apr 4^th, 2012 at 1:15pm:

jdee190 wrote on Apr 4th, 2012 at 1:09pm: Cool, I was just wondering. I know there are a few Christians here who believe in a loving, non judgemental God. I love that.   Interesting.  Not long ago, you said that you greatly fear Jesus.   If God is Loving and non judgmental, then wouldn't JC be too?  So do you fear God and Jesus, or do you love hearing about how Loving and non-judgemental they are, or you just can't make up your mind?

You are correct, I do greatly fear that that God and Jesus are judgemental and I greatly fear hell. I would just love to believe that there is a loving God and no hell, but I fear I will go hell for doing so.

Oh man, my head is really messed up.

The main thing to do is trust your common sense and heart.  It's only a collection of thoughts that are based on somebody else's misunderstandings that are causing you to feel afraid. Notice that you feel afraid only when you listen to the thought patterns that are based on the false beliefs.





jdee190 wrote on Apr 4^th, 2012 at 2:11pm:

wrote on Apr 4th, 2012 at 1:15pm: jdee190 wrote on Apr 4th, 2012 at 1:09pm: Cool, I was just wondering. I know there are a few Christians here who believe in a loving, non judgemental God. I love that.   Interesting.  Not long ago, you said that you greatly fear Jesus.   If God is Loving and non judgmental, then wouldn't JC be too?  So do you fear God and Jesus, or do you love hearing about how Loving and non-judgemental they are, or you just can't make up your mind? You are correct, I do greatly fear that that God and Jesus are judgemental and I greatly fear hell. I would just love to believe that there is a loving God and no hell, but I fear I will go hell for doing so. Oh man, my head is really messed up.

recoverer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2012 at 2:42pm:

Notice that you feel afraid only when you listen to the thought patterns that are based on the false beliefs.

Jdee,

I agree with what Recoverer said here and I will also add that you seem to focus on the negative points of certain beliefs to the point where you seem to ignore any positives that come from them.

From experience I know that in one day 9 good things can happen and 1 bad thing happens, but the bad thing ruins the day and the good things are forgotten about due to this.

The trick is to see the good things that have happened too and then the day isn't so bad after all.

I hope this makes sense to you as it's the only way I could think of describing it.

Andy

JDee,

We create our own hells, and it is up to you to lose your fear of it.  Let me ask you something - do you have free will right now?  Can you choose to help someone or harm someone?  Of course, you can.

Free will is ours here and now in the physical world.  Why would it then by different just because you don't have a body (after death)?

No, what many don't "get" is that those who go to hellish planes after death do so because that is where there consciousness is most comfortable.  Sounds crazy right?  But actually, after death, all pretense is stripped away.  So people follow what they truly love, without regard for society or appearance.  Those who like to dominate or harm others gravitate toward a hellish plane where this is enacted out again and again.  To us, to anyone outside of it, it is a hell.  To them, it is where their mind wants to be. 

The subconscious mind is like a garden, and whatever seeds you let sink deep into your subconscious flower into thoughts, loves, fears and then express themselves in the real world.  We are meant to learn this while alive.  That we attract into our lives that which we deeply believe (the good and the bad).  By choosing our thoughts, and learning about the process of thought creating reality, we are meant to learn to navigate through life and move toward love.

So don't be afraid.  No one will decide where you go but yourself.

As to JC, I believe that he was a role model for what each incarnate human can accomplish if we follow the path of love.  He tells his followers that all can accomplish what he did. 


Matthew

Once again I thank you all for your replies, you are truly good people.

Recoverer and Andy you are probably right, it is more of a mental problem than anything.

Loving one another as oneself

This is the most important sentece which was said.
We shoud live like that.  Easy ?
No, hehe

Feel the pain of life and live with respekt to every one.

JCh is the God and Creator of Gods.

Greets
:-)

I don't know if I should share this, Justin believes that Jesus is the He/She that Robert Monroe speaks of in his book Ultimate Journey. I don't know if this is true.

This morning I was meditating and I saw and felt something coming out of the Earth. At the same time I received the words "He/She came from the Earth. Then I heard a voice say, "It's a fact."

This might relate to the Gospel of John words that say, "He (Jesus) came into the very World he created." (I don't remember the exact words.)Perhaps a being created this World. The World's energy and consciousness comes from the being that created it. Then the Soul of He/She came from the energy of this Earth. Source of the World, the World, and He/She, there is a possible close relationship.

I don't know. I haven't figured out what precisely the message I received meant.

Interesting experience Albert.  Thank you for sharing it. 

DocM wrote on Apr 4^th, 2012 at 5:47pm:

JDee, We create our own hells, and it is up to you to lose your fear of it.  Let me ask you something - do you have free will right now?  Can you choose to help someone or harm someone?  Of course, you can. Free will is ours here and now in the physical world.  Why would it then by different just because you don't have a body (after death)? No, what many don't "get" is that those who go to hellish planes after death do so because that is where there consciousness is most comfortable.  Sounds crazy right?  But actually, after death, all pretense is stripped away.  So people follow what they truly love, without regard for society or appearance.  Those who like to dominate or harm others gravitate toward a hellish plane where this is enacted out again and again.  To us, to anyone outside of it, it is a hell.  To them, it is where their mind wants to be.  The subconscious mind is like a garden, and whatever seeds you let sink deep into your subconscious flower into thoughts, loves, fears and then express themselves in the real world.  We are meant to learn this while alive.  That we attract into our lives that which we deeply believe (the good and the bad).  By choosing our thoughts, and learning about the process of thought creating reality, we are meant to learn to navigate through life and move toward love. So don't be afraid.  No one will decide where you go but yourself. As to JC, I believe that he was a role model for what each incarnate human can accomplish if we follow the path of love.  He tells his followers that all can accomplish what he did.  Matthew

Hi, just read this again. What shapes your belief? Study , experiences?

Thank You

Quote:

You are correct, I do greatly fear that that God and Jesus are judgemental and I greatly fear hell. I would just love to believe that there is a loving God and no hell, but I fear I will go hell for doing so. Oh man, my head is really messed up.

Hi Jdee,

You also dismiss/ignore almost everything anyone writes to you, so what do you get out of asking these questions? I, personally, reached out to you and was ignored several times. Logically, it makes no sense for me to even bother posting this message. I don't get the impression you care to learn or expand your understanding about any of these topics, so what's the purpose? What need does it fill for you? That's rhetorical.

Kind regards,
mj

Just Me wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 10:27pm:

Quote: You are correct, I do greatly fear that that God and Jesus are judgemental and I greatly fear hell. I would just love to believe that there is a loving God and no hell, but I fear I will go hell for doing so. Oh man, my head is really messed up. Hi Jdee, You also dismiss/ignore almost everything anyone writes to you, so what do you get out of asking these questions? I, personally, reached out to you and was ignored several times. Logically, it makes no sense for me to even bother posting this message. I don't get the impression you care to learn or expand your understanding about any of these topics, so what's the purpose? What need does it fill for you? That's rhetorical. Kind regards, mj

Mjd, I read and take in EVERYTHING everyone writes on here, sorry if it looks if I have ignored yot but I havent. If you look at most of my threads I write a post thanking everyone as I access this website on a phone the majority of the time and it is a struggle to reply to a lot of comments, low and behold even one.

Quote:

Mjd, I read and take in EVERYTHING everyone writes on here, sorry if it looks if I have ignored yot but I havent. If you look at most of my threads I write a post thanking everyone as I access this website on a phone the majority of the time and it is a struggle to reply to a lot of comments, low and behold even one.

Hi Jdee,

I am not referring to your acknowledgment of people's responses. I'm referring to what appears to be your unwillingness to consider viewpoints outside your own. There is a difference.

Kind regards,
mj

I believe that Jdee is asking questions because she "is" willing to consider new viewpoints. However, sometimes it takes time to overcome a way of thinking that is troublesome.

Just Me wrote on Apr 9^th, 2012 at 7:40am:

I'm referring to what appears to be your unwillingness to consider viewpoints outside your own.

Jdee,

I agree with mjd here.

I remember when you first came to this site and you said that your grandmother had a vision of your recently passed on grandfather, which gave her comfort and peace.

Your view on it was that it was a hallucination.

I'm not trying to say you should believe otherwise but, what I don't understand is why you were convinced that it was a hallucination. You could say that it's the lack of evidence for the afterlife but then you have no evidence that it was a hallucination either.

So, what makes you sit on one side of the fence rather than the other? Really, if you didn't have preconceptions you would be sitting on the fence.

From my own experience I know what happened to your grandmother happens, but I also know that only the experiencer can truly know what it is as they were there to witness it.

For someone who wasn't there, well, they can only speculate so they don't know anymore than although it's probably less than the experiencer.

It doesn't matter what the subject is, if you have rigid pre set beliefs then you are hampering your learning process and are getting nowhere fast.

It's imperative to have an open mind, even with my experiences I still look at sceptical viewpoints because this is what I should do. How else could I make up my mind if I only look at one side of the story?

Andy   

recoverer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

I believe that Jdee is asking questions because she "is" willing to consider new viewpoints. However, sometimes it takes time to overcome a way of thinking that is troublesome.

EXACTLY this

recoverer wrote on Apr 9^th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

I believe that Jdee is asking questions because she "is" willing to consider new viewpoints. However, sometimes it takes time to overcome a way of thinking that is troublesome.

Recoverer,

That may be true. I don't know. I have read almost all of Jdee's posts here and NONE of them reflect any kind of change in perspective or even consideration of anyone else's input that does not agree with the original statement. The willingness to learn, explore, consider viewpoints does not necessarily mean blindly accepting those alternate viewpoints, but I've seen nothing that suggests anything has even registered. All the questions are based on the same belief system with no acknowledgement or consideration of anyone else's input. Personally, I started a thread JUST to have a discussion about how some belief systems can be debilitating and how to break down those walls. That thread was basically abandoned. I would have loved for someone to reach out to me when I was mired in fear and damnation thinking under Catholicism, but alas, nobody did and I worked my way through the quicksand alone. I realize people have various ways of learning and processing new ideas, but I haven't witnessed that happening. It's just my opinion and I could be wrong. In fact, I hope I'm wrong. I hope Jdee is not here just trying to stir the pot for no reason other than person enjoyment. Who knows though?

Kind regards,
mj

MJD:

It seems to me that Jdee has been sharing her inner dialogue with us. Sometimes inner dialogue takes place in way that is different than how forum conversations take place.

I believe it is good that Jdee has shared some of the things that cause her to wonder if hell exists, because when she did so she shared some of the specific things that have troubled her. A big part of overcoming thought patterns that trouble us is bringing them out in the open so they can be examined. A person needs to do so in a way that feels right for he or she.

Just Me wrote on Apr 9^th, 2012 at 5:07pm:

recoverer wrote on Apr 9th, 2012 at 12:40pm: I believe that Jdee is asking questions because she "is" willing to consider new viewpoints. However, sometimes it takes time to overcome a way of thinking that is troublesome. Recoverer, That may be true. I don't know. I have read almost all of Jdee's posts here and NONE of them reflect any kind of change in perspective or even consideration of anyone else's input that does not agree with the original statement. The willingness to learn, explore, consider viewpoints does not necessarily mean blindly accepting those alternate viewpoints, but I've seen nothing that suggests anything has even registered. All the questions are based on the same belief system with no acknowledgement or consideration of anyone else's input. Personally, I started a thread JUST to have a discussion about how some belief systems can be debilitating and how to break down those walls. That thread was basically abandoned. I would have loved for someone to reach out to me when I was mired in fear and damnation thinking under Catholicism, but alas, nobody did and I worked my way through the quicksand alone. I realize people have various ways of learning and processing new ideas, but I haven't witnessed that happening. It's just my opinion and I could be wrong. In fact, I hope I'm wrong. I hope Jdee is not here just trying to stir the pot for no reason other than person enjoyment. Who knows though? Kind regards, mj

For my enjoyment? Completely wrong.

I havent just tried to use this board for help, I have been to doctors, a phsychologist and been diagnosed with severe anxiety and depression and have been put on prozac.

I am only 18 years old so obviously it is hard for me to work through this alone. I shouldnt even be caring about death just now.

What enjoyment would I get out of this? I should be enjoying my life and having fun at this age, but no, my life is in turmoil.

Quote:

For my enjoyment? Completely wrong. I havent just tried to use this board for help, I have been to doctors, a phsychologist and been diagnosed with severe anxiety and depression and have been put on prozac. I am only 18 years old so obviously it is hard for me to work through this alone. I shouldnt even be caring about death just now. What enjoyment would I get out of this? I should be enjoying my life and having fun at this age, but no, my life is in turmoil.

Hi Jdee,

Then, I extend my apologies. I did not realize you were so young and it probably does explain why you seem unwilling or unable to receive information that doesn't fit into your world view. I am sincerely sorry if I offended you.

The point I was trying to make is that it's a bit frustrating when someone (not just you, people, in general) asks a question, people take the time to reply and it doesn't seem to have any impact. Most information (in life) probably should be filtered out, but sometimes your questions give the impression you just want a different answer than you've already received.

Remember, I told you that I grew up Catholic? In fact, I was ex-communicated from the Catholic church because I spoke up about my abuse. I went to Catholic schools all the way through college (Kindergarten + 16 years of unadulterated brainwashing). I completely empathize and sympathize with how and why you have these fears. I am not discounting your fears and anxieties and without seeing you in person, I suspect there is nothing wrong with you other than the indoctrination of Catholicism. Have you ever checked out FactNet?

Jdee, you can ask a million questions, but until you are ready to release your fears and accept that it does not have to be that way, it will continue to control you. I am not just saying that as an ex-Catholic, but a person diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I understand the unrelenting stress of constant fear and NOTHING helped until I took back my power and accepted that I could live the rest of my life afraid of my own shadow or do something different so I wouldn't be. For me, I had no choice. I was thrown out of the church for speaking up about my abuse and I floundered to other churches trying to find someone with the "right" answer. Guess what? As cliche' as it sounds, the answer was inside me. No book, person, church, religion, doctrine, ritual, etc. had the perfectly right answer. I simply had to learn the right answer is whatever resonates in my life and does not harm anyone else. My "right" may not be your "right" or DocM's "right" or Recoverer's "right" and that's okay. It ONLY has to be right for you and you will know when that happens.

I am not trying to be mean or dismissive. I want you to trust your own inner voice and follow where you are lead. Your own subconscious will never lead you astray and all the answers you seek will come at the right time when you are ready (just as they do for all of us). Open your heart, open your mind, open to PUL and prepare yourself. As the Desiderata tells us "The Universe is unfolding exactly as it should."

Kind regards,
mj

Jdee,

Have you considered that this board might not be helping you at all if not making you worse?

Nobody here has the definitive answer for what you are looking for and it could well be that religious doctrine and the afterlife might not be the main issue you have after all.

I don't know what's up with you, I'm just putting ideas out there but it's good that you realise that you have problems and that's a good start.

I'm thinking that maybe the fear of the afterlife might be masking something else.

Just a thought.

Andy

I have mentioned more than once that I felt Jdee is suffering from anxiety and fear which goes beyond fear of death. In my experience these fears find a way to express themselves, both physical and emotional, and are not responsive to too much intellectual reasoning. He has acknowledged as much in past posts. Many long-time respondents on this board have spent many long posts trying to work with Jdee on his fears. Much attention has been paid. Jdee, has anything that any of us on this board said been of use to you in your search for peace?

Mjd, honestly I wasn't offended, its fine!

Andy and Bardo, what both of you are saying is exactly what the doctors have said, a mental disorder which can affect many, has unfortunately struck me and it is the problem. Not religion or whatever as before this it imanifested itself in the fear that I had lymphoma cancer. I was completely convinced I had cancer and would be dead within the year.

However yet again I cant accept it. I fear death and read too much into religion etc. Now I need to work my way out of it.

And also Im not some sort of nutter lol, I try to hide it and keep up a normal life but its a struggle. I play sports during the week, and go out for a drink at the weekend with my friends.

Bardo wrote on Apr 10^th, 2012 at 10:00am:

I have mentioned more than once that I felt Jdee is suffering from anxiety and fear which goes beyond fear of death. In my experience these fears find a way to express themselves, both physical and emotional, and are not responsive to too much intellectual reasoning. He has acknowledged as much in past posts. Many long-time respondents on this board have spent many long posts trying to work with Jdee on his fears. Much attention has been paid. Jdee, has anything that any of us on this board said been of use to you in your search for peace?

Bardo, one of the things this board has given me is knowledge of George Anderson. The medium who is a practising Catholic.

His book We Dont Die helped me somewhat.

Jdee,
It is good that you get something out of this board, if nothing else you know that there are many people out there who have had the same issues that you have and have worked through them. You really are not that unusual in your concerns, many people suffer anxiety, excessive fear, panic and other "disorders". In most cases, folks do better over time and with an opportunity to talk about their concerns. Folks here are very interested in helping you, and we hope that you get something out of our discussions and suggestions. But don't be surprised when someone questions why you don't seem to take their suggestions or insights to heart. The folks here have great depths of experience behind them (a kind way of saying that we are old), and just wish that you could see what they see because when you do, you will be greatly relieved.

Hi Jdee,

Your posts really tug at my heart strings... to be so young and have so much fear to cope with.  From reading your posts, I also think deep down inside you are very strong and courageous.

The only antidote to fear is courage. I know it's easier said than done, but each time you are confronted with a fear try your best to pinpoint the fear, muster up your courage to accept the worst and then let it go.  The more you face your fears the easier it will be to overcome them.  If you do this, one day you will have the most wonderful realization of what you've accomplished... emotional freedom that will give you an amazing sense of well-being. 

Kathy



 

  Hi Jdee,

  It's not directly related to your questions or this thread, but it may help you if you actually try it.  If you take just 5 minutes a day to relax and practice Bruce Moen's "Remembering the feeling of Love" technique, i know it could really help you eventually.   But give it time and practice. 

  Also, having dealt with issues of severe depression myself, i know first hand that the body and it's imbalance can play a very strong role in these things. 

   If you do some research on holistic health concepts with emphasis on healthy diet and exercise, and you really changed your diet and health lifestyle to a healthier and healthier kind, it could really help your moods. 

Probably one of the single most important factors in health is the acid-alkaline balance.  Generally speaking, for most, it's important to eat more alkaline forming foods.  This is primarily the non starchy vegetables and most fruits, and some nuts and seeds like Almonds, Chia, and Amaranth (the latter cooks like a grain). 

  I can't stress to you how much of a difference getting my body back in better balance really helped improve my moods and mental states.  I'm pretty "empathic" for a guy, and when i meet a lot of people who seem to have issues with their moods and mental states, often i get a strong sense that their bodies imbalance are contributing a lot to these.  Specific beliefs and fears also often need to be changed, but often i find it's a very holistic process that involves the body and mind with it's beliefs and conditioning. 

wrote on Apr 10^th, 2012 at 4:31pm:

Hi Jdee,   It's not directly related to your questions or this thread, but it may help you if you actually try it.  If you take just 5 minutes a day to relax and practice Bruce Moen's "Remembering the feeling of Love" technique, i know it could really help you eventually.   But give it time and practice.    Also, having dealt with issues of severe depression myself, i know first hand that the body and it's imbalance can play a very strong role in these things.     If you do some research on holistic health concepts with emphasis on healthy diet and exercise, and you really changed your diet and health lifestyle to a healthier and healthier kind, it could really help your moods.  Probably one of the single most important factors in health is the acid-alkaline balance.  Generally speaking, for most, it's important to eat more alkaline forming foods.  This is primarily the non starchy vegetables and most fruits, and some nuts and seeds like Almonds, Chia, and Amaranth (the latter cooks like a grain).    I can't stress to you how much of a difference getting my body back in better balance really helped improve my moods and mental states.  I'm pretty "empathic" for a guy, and when i meet a lot of people who seem to have issues with their moods and mental states, often i get a strong sense that their bodies imbalance are contributing a lot to these.  Specific beliefs and fears also often need to be changed, but often i find it's a very holistic process that involves the body and mind with it's beliefs and conditioning.

Thank You for all the suggestions and help, I have been told I most likely have a chemical imbalance which is in no way my fault, which is causing the anxiety.

Lights of Love wrote on Apr 10^th, 2012 at 4:12pm:

Hi Jdee, Your posts really tug at my heart strings... to be so young and have so much fear to cope with.  From reading your posts, I also think deep down inside you are very strong and courageous. The only antidote to fear is courage. I know it's easier said than done, but each time you are confronted with a fear try your best to pinpoint the fear, muster up your courage to accept the worst and then let it go.  The more you face your fears the easier it will be to overcome them.  If you do this, one day you will have the most wonderful realization of what you've accomplished... emotional freedom that will give you an amazing sense of well-being.  Kathy

Thanks, I sure hope so!

Bardo wrote on Apr 10^th, 2012 at 12:31pm:

Jdee, It is good that you get something out of this board, if nothing else you know that there are many people out there who have had the same issues that you have and have worked through them. You really are not that unusual in your concerns, many people suffer anxiety, excessive fear, panic and other "disorders". In most cases, folks do better over time and with an opportunity to talk about their concerns. Folks here are very interested in helping you, and we hope that you get something out of our discussions and suggestions. But don't be surprised when someone questions why you don't seem to take their suggestions or insights to heart. The folks here have great depths of experience behind them (a kind way of saying that we are old), and just wish that you could see what they see because when you do, you will be greatly relieved.

Thank You Bardo.

I dont understand myself sometimes. My grandad died a few years back, he wasnt Catholic or even religious. He was baptised as an Episcopolian but never took part in the religion. However he was a great, kind man.

I believe and even know that he is now in a happy, loving place which I call Heaven, not in hell. But somehow I fear I will be put in hell?

He will be looking down at me just now being pretty annoyed, and wanting me to wisen up! As he would say lol

jdee 190. Hope this helps you in your Christian dilemma. If not, too bad! C&P'ed from another site.


"It rests with every professor of the religion of Jesus to settle within himself to which of the two religions, that of Jesus or that of Paul, he will adhere."

- Jeremy Bentham, in Not Paul But Jesus.



    Yeshua bar Yosef (Yeshua, son of Joseph) is the original Aramaic name for Jesus the Nazarene. His parents, siblings, disciples, and followers called him by that name. The name "Jesus" is a misspelling and mispronunciation that resulted from the translation of Yeshua's name after his death, first into the Greek Iesous (pronounced "ee-ay-SUS"), and then from the Greek Iesous into the Latin Jesus. No one during Yeshua's life (prior to 30 CE) ever uttered the name, "Jesus." The letter "j" wasn't in the English language until the seventeenth century, so even in English, no one spoke the name "Jesus" until after that time.


Content of This Web Site

To understand Yeshua ben Yosef and the simple messages he spoke, we must go back to the time before his death in 30 CE, when Yeshua spoke humbly and lovingly, without the veil of a church that would separate him from the people to whom he wished to give his message. This Web site is devoted to helping humankind understand Yeshua, realize that Christianity is not Yeshua and doesn't own Yeshua, and overcome the damage the church has done in the name of Jesus Christ, the figure that the church created. It is not a Web site affiliated with or claiming allegiance to any religion, including Christianity. It is a spiritual site dedicated to understanding Yeshua and Yeshua's message in an effort to help humankind grow spiritually into the beings and society he knew we could be while in the Earthly plane of eternal life.


We Must Understand Yeshua's Message without the Religious Shrouds that Smothered It

Yeshua is a more profound figure, with the potential to have a more pervasive impact on humankind, than the Christian church has ever understood or been able to communicate. His life and teachings belong to humankind, not to a religious body. His wisdom and counsel stand with those of the Buddha and other brilliant luminaries who have communicated the truth of the eternal universe to humankind, helping people grow to spiritual maturity and bliss. His life is among the most inspiring accounts in humankind's history of love, spirituality, acceptance of others, suffering out of love, and forgiving all, even his executioners. Every human being—religious, atheist, spiritualist, or of any belief system—can learn from and be inspired by Yeshua's life.

Unfortunately, who Yeshua was and what he taught have been enveloped in dark ecclesiastical shrouds that are now, justifiably, being stripped away by the relentless clawing to uncover truth by a humankind that has developed sharp talons of systematic inquiry and knowledge since the seventeenth century. However, the truths that were secreted away deep within the shrouds are becoming lost among the shreds of the deteriorating church.

As the tatters that were the church are swept away, the spiritual guidance he provided must not be disposed of with them.


The Bliss of Growing to Spiritual Maturity

The reason Yeshua's message is so important to humanity is that our purpose in life is to grow in spiritual understanding and maturity, becoming blissful, unafraid of the transition called death, full of love and compassion toward others, and receiving the same love from others toward us. Every hour of every day of our lives should be filled with the warmth of love and peace with others—that is the Kingdom of God as Yeshua envisioned it.

Humankind should be evolving to having unconditional love for all others in brotherhood and harmony, without interpersonal conflict and war. "The Kingdom of God is spread out upon the face of the earth, and men do not see it," Yeshua said (Gospel of Thomas). The writer of the Gospel of Luke reported that Yeshua said, "The kingdom of God does not come visibly, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you." Paradise isn't a place apart from Earth coming at a future time as the church describes it; Heaven is within us and spread out among all peoples upon the face of the earth and we're simply not living in it. Understanding and living the profound truths Yeshua, Buddha, and the other luminaries taught would open humankind's eyes to the Heaven, the Kingdom of God, that is already here—we just don't see it.


Misinterpretation of Yeshua's Message

Very soon after Yeshua died in around 30 CE, his followers gathered in Jerusalem to await his return to establish the Kingdom of Israel as promised in the Old Testament prophecies. In the years that followed Yeshua's death, they began to realize that the return of their Messiah might be delayed for a few more months or years, but surely not longer than that. And so they developed rules for the body of followers in a loosely formed organization.

By the time of the Council of Jerusalem, in around 48 or 49 CE, the groups in Jerusalem and outside in the Diaspora had become more formalized, and could be referred to individually as churches. However, all of the believers together would not have been called a "church" in the larger sense of the term. There was a great diversity of beliefs about Yeshua during the first three centuries after his death

Gradually, as Yeshua's return was delayed, syllables and words of an organized church began to be heard. A canon of texts had taken form by the end of the second century. Creeds had come into being stating the beliefs. More or less permanent meeting places had been established. It became obvious that Yeshua would not be returning imminently, so a church evolved.

At the Council of Nicea, in 325 CE, around 300 bishops from a number of the larger, more established churches around the Mediterranean assembled to settle issues having to do with Yeshua's nature in relationship to God the Father. The Roman emperor Constantine presided, having been converted (ostensibly) to belief in Yeshua (now Jesus Christ). Christianity had a name and had become the state religion in the Roman Empire by the end of the fourth century. The Nicene Creed, written and revised in the fourth century, refers to a "holy catholic and apostolic church."

Insignificant Christianity had grown from a persecuted sect to the most powerful religion in the empire. In the process, it had left the teachings of Yeshua in an archive and established its own structure, beliefs, and rules. The church created its own version of the Messiah, steadily embellishing the icon until all vestiges of the humble Jewish Rabbi named Yeshua had been expunged. It promoted itself to the position of omnipotent earthly representative of the God it had created, thereby itself assuming the stature and power of God, with all the rights, status, infallibility, and absolute power characteristic of a God.

In the end, the church became the casing that held God, shielding God from humankind and serving up regulations and observances it required humankind to embrace. The church's functionaries, as the representatives of this God, eventually felt themselves to be demigods accountable only to the God they had created. They interpreted God for humankind, had license to commit any atrocities in the name of God and the church with impunity, and demanded that states and peoples defer to them in all matters of spirituality and human conduct.

The list of crimes against humanity grew, while the church's coffers swelled from enticements to give money to the church fabricated by church leaders. The church sold guarantees of salvation for people and their deceased loved ones, in contradiction of Yeshua's words about spiritual growth and the necessity of being born again for salvation, and implied that people who did not give money to the church would be punished for eternity. The money enhanced the church's power and supported its actions.


In the thick matrix of the church, Yeshua's teaching about love, forgiveness, peace, and humility were relegated to the ineffectual status of mindlessly repeated words that had become part of the liturgy. Yeshua's influence was purged from the church.

Much of the church with the name Christ in it does not represent Yeshua ben Yosef. In this twenty-first century, humankind, with all of its diverse religions and belief systems, needs to learn about the teachings and model of Yeshua before 30 CE without the ecclesiastical shrouds of myths and rituals enveloping them. Humankind must separate itself from the church that itself grew into a God over the two millennia after Yeshua's death, and see, for the first time, the truths in Yeshua's teaching that will help individuals and humankind evolve to spiritual maturity.

Yeshua's second coming will be in his being understood for the first time.


The Results of Two Millennia of Paulianity

The following article is reproduced from the Huffington Post, April 5, 2012. It describes where two millennia of Paulianity have brought society. There is very little of Yeshua ben Yosef in the organized religion that claims to be based on him and his teachings. There is, in fact, prominent teaching and action that is antithetical to Yeshua's teachings.


Why Evangelicals Hate Jesus

by Phil Zuckerman,
Professor of Sociology
Pitzer College
Claremont, California


The results from a recent poll published by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life (http://www.pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/Tea-Party-and-Religion.aspx) reveal what social scientists have known for a long time: White Evangelical Christians are the group least likely to support politicians or policies that reflect the actual teachings of Jesus. It is perhaps one of the strangest, most dumb-founding ironies in contemporary American culture. Evangelical Christians, who most fiercely proclaim to have a personal relationship with Christ, who most confidently declare their belief that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, who go to church on a regular basis, pray daily, listen to Christian music, and place God and His Only Begotten Son at the center of their lives, are simultaneously the very people most likely to reject his teachings and despise his radical message.

Jesus unambiguously preached mercy and forgiveness. These are supposed to be cardinal virtues of the Christian faith. And yet Evangelicals are the most supportive of the death penalty, draconian sentencing, punitive punishment over rehabilitation, and the governmental use of torture. Jesus exhorted humans to be loving, peaceful, and non-violent. And yet Evangelicals are the group of Americans most supportive of easy-access weaponry, little-to-no regulation of handgun and semi-automatic gun ownership, not to mention the violent military invasion of various countries around the world. Jesus was very clear that the pursuit of wealth was inimical to the Kingdom of God, that the rich are to be condemned, and that to be a follower of Him means to give one's money to the poor. And yet Evangelicals are the most supportive of corporate greed and capitalistic excess, and they are the most opposed to institutional help for the nation's poor -- especially poor children. They hate anything that smacks of "socialism," even though that is essentially what their Savior preached. They despise food stamp programs, subsidies for schools, hospitals, job training -- anything that might dare to help out those in need. Even though helping out those in need was exactly what Jesus urged humans to do. In short, Evangelicals are that segment of America which is the most pro-militaristic, pro-gun, and pro-corporate, while simultaneously claiming to be most ardent lovers of the Prince of Peace.

What's the deal? Before attempting an answer, allow a quick clarification. Evangelicals don't exactly hate Jesus -- as we've provocatively asserted in the title of this piece. They do love him dearly. But not because of what he tried to teach humanity. Rather, Evangelicals love Jesus for what he does for them. Through his magical grace, and by shedding his precious blood, Jesus saves Evangelicals from everlasting torture in hell, and guarantees them a premium, luxury villa in heaven. For this, and this only, they love him. They can't stop thanking him. And yet, as for Jesus himself -- his core values of peace, his core teachings of social justice, his core commandments of goodwill -- most Evangelicals seem to have nothing but disdain.

And this is nothing new. At the end of World War I, the more rabid, and often less educated Evangelicals decried the influence of the Social Gospel amongst liberal churches. According to these self-proclaimed torch-bearers of a religion born in the Middle East, progressive church-goers had been infected by foreign ideas such as German Rationalism, Soviet-style Communism, and, of course, atheistic Darwinism. In the 1950s, the anti-Social Gospel message piggybacked the rhetoric of anti-communism, which slashed and burned its way through the Old South and onward through the Sunbelt, turning liberal churches into vacant lots along the way. It was here that the spirit and the body collided, leaving us with a prototypical Christian nationalist, hell-bent on prosperity. Charity was thus rebranded as collectivism and self-denial gave way to the gospel of accumulation. Church-to-church, sermon-to-sermon, evangelical preachers grew less comfortable with the fish and loaves Jesus who lived on earth, and more committed to the angry Jesus of the future. By the 1990s, this divine Terminator gained "most-favored Jesus status" among America's mega churches; and with that, even the mention of the former "social justice" Messiah drove the socially conscious from their larger, meaner flock.

In addition to such historical developments, there may very well simply be an underlying, all-too-human social-psychological process at root, one that probably plays itself out among all religious individuals: they see in their religion what they want to see, and deny or despise the rest. That is, religion is one big Rorschach test. People look at the content of their religious tradition -- its teachings, its creeds, its prophet's proclamations -- and they basically pick and choose what suits their own secular outlook. They see in their faith what they want to see as they live their daily lives, and simultaneously ignore the rest. And as is the case for most White Evangelical Christians, what they are ignoring is actually the very heart and soul of Jesus's message -- a message that emphasizes sharing, not greed. Peace-making, not war-mongering. Love, not violence.

Of course, conservative Americans have every right to support corporate greed, militarism, gun possession, and the death penalty, and to oppose welfare, food stamps, health care for those in need, etc. -- it is just strange and contradictory when they claim these positions as somehow "Christian." They aren't.


Mentality of the Roman Catholic Church

Those who have been abused by priests, and those of us who know and love them, have pondered at length what could cause officials of a church founded on the teachings of Yeshua to rape, sodomize, and even torture children and still believe they are somehow righteous. And what state of mind could result in the rest of the church defending the perpetrators and ignoring, buying off, and denigrating the victims?

The answer, I believe, is that over the centuries since the Council at Nicea, the leaders in the church (Pope, cardinals, archbishops, bishops, nuns, and priests) came to believe that the church (meaning them) was the representative of God on Earth. If God was the heart of this body, they were the brain, vital organs, blood, limbs, eyes, ears, and all other parts of the body. The heart beat relentlessly in the innermost core of the church, but out of sight of any human being. The vital organs of the church sustained God—without them, God would perish. The limbs that acted in the outside world could do anything because the core heart they were sustaining was God. As a result, the body was to be protected at all costs, even to deceit, revision to fit their version of the truth, abuse, and homicide. The physical men and women became stewards of the God within, and thus their own instincts and needs were God's instincts and needs. The result has been an addiction to power.

The words the abusers use when performing their atrocities are church words: "God will love you if . . ." "You have been chosen by God to . . ." "Do this to me so I can be closer to God . . ." and on and on. I have come to feel they actually believe the words they utter. The climate of the church has brought them to that point.

Because of the requirement for celibacy and the greater likelihood that their lifestyle would be criticized if adults are involved in the acts, homosexuality and pedophilia became the most viable methods of satisfying their pent-up sexual urges. They have easy access to children, the influence that comes from the church's inculcating beliefs about church leaders being the representatives of God, and the remarkable privilege of being above the civil law because of their religious affiliation. The result has been widespread sexual abuse of children and adults that continues to this day. The priesthood has actually come to be seen as an attractive occupation for people who have these urges that can't easily be satisfied in society. And today, priests are reported to be focusing their abuse on the children of illegal immigrants because the immigrant families are frequently devoutly Catholic and fear deportation if they report the incidents.

The abuse continues.

  Excellent article KarmaLars.  There is little of Yeshua's teachings in fundamentalist Christian religions.  Around the time i started going through puberty, for some reason involving no outside catalyst or influence, i became very interested in this Yeshua figure outside of religious dogma.  There was the odd dichotomy of being repulsed by Christian religion, the church, etc. but very attracted to The Teacher of teachers--how he exampled, lived, and taught. 

  What i figured out is similar to what your article outlines.  Mostly i was led by a combo of intuition and research, but certain messages i've received also helped out.   One dream message a few years ago, which was very vivid reminded me strongly of Bob Monroe's run in with the figure he labeled "He/She".  In the dream, i knew i knew what Yeshua knew and wanted regarding the Earth changes.  Someone in the dream said something about the changes and "Jesus", and i remember specifically saying, "No, Yeshua wants these changes to happen so he can fulfill the spiritual transformation of this world." 

   This is highly reminiscent of Bob's telepathic conversation with "He/She" and He/She giving Bob a ROTE about a world wide plan to transform humanity without the use of isms and various other limited human inventions and systems.  He/She used the term, "recognized necessity", to which Bob replied, "but necessity is severe stuff, the world would have to be in rough shape..."   He/She confirms Bob's astute observation and simply says, "That's why the waiting, the time will come."   

  I've received many messages about the Earth changes, as well as my wife.  I've come to believe that Yeshua addressed our times and cycle in the N.T. some and outlined some.  While i know the psychically derived work, "The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ" has some errors in it, i don't throw the baby out with the bathwater in it's case, because i sense and feel much truth to it as well (and i know first hand how difficult it is, to get 100 percent accuracy with any psychic endeavor).  In this book, Yeshua prophesies about the next age to come, the beginning of the Age of Aquarius, which fills in some of the N.T. stuff on the great changes he talks about (especially in Matthew).

  Aquarius is a sign, a symbol of consciousness which represents purity of perception via clear intuitive sight, greater group consciousness, mass, instantaneous communication, technological advances, etc.   It seems to be clear that we have started to approach the Age of Aquarius.  During the cusp between one Age ending, and another beginning, great changes occur.  Especially so during cycles wherein much greater cycles than the change of the ages is simultaneously occurring like it is now (major Galactic-Solar alignments, which happen every 13,000 years or so)). 

  It seems that Yeshua has been well aware, for quite a long time, of this particular unusual cycle and the sheer degree of potential for change, crisis, and/or transformation.  In preparing humanity for these changes, he gives out his knowledge to others at times so they can spread this awareness.  There is no doubt in my mind, that the some 1800 or so year old "immortal" human who doesn't eat or sleep anymore, and who works many different jobs because in his words, "I like people" that Bob Monroe labeled "He/She" is Yeshua "in the flesh".  I think Bob eventually realized exactly who he was talking to, but for whatever reason he decided to keep the identity of this person veiled.  Perhaps Bob was afraid of being labeled religious or being associated with anything "religious" at the time?   Bob previously was intolerant and extremely uninterested in anything smacking of Christian religion.   Yet, he seems to have left some clues about the real identity of "He/She", indicating that this person was already well known about in some way, "i perceive you as occidental", but "no one really believes you exist". 

  That last line is especially interested in coming from someone with so little interest or respect for Christian religion, for to such a skeptic of same, they might casually make such a reference to people not really believing in Yeshua still being around in the flesh, for it is a projection of their own prior feelings and beliefs onto others. 

   Whatever the case, it's clear that the ultra non religious Bob Monroe eventually became interested in Yeshua for some reason or reasons.  How do we know, because he had his friend at the time, the trained Remote Viewer, Joseph McMoneagle, do a R.V. session on a target that Bob had picked, but Joe didn't consciously know.  That target was the historical Jesus.  It's interesting to me that Joe eventually realized the target was Jesus, but he had such a hard time picking up clear and detailed information about this figure.  It was like Yeshua's "wavelengths" were so far beyond his own, that he kept "clicking out" and had such a hard time perceiving this transcendent Consciousness.  (particularly interesting considering a couple of messages we have received about Joe).

  But a couple of interesting tid bits in that session, interestingly match up to Edgar Cayce's guidance about this Teacher.  One such odd tid bit of info, was that both sources said that physically, Yeshua had mostly reddish hair.  What makes this particularly interesting, is that at the time of both Cayce's guidance and Joe's R.V. session inspired by Bob about Jesus, the Dead Sea Scrolls and their info was not yet fully public (they hadn't even been discovered yet when Cayce gave his info).   In the Dead Sea Scrolls, in the prophecies of the coming Messiah, the seer who saw the coming of Yeshua, saw that he would have reddish hair.   What are the odds of all these "coincidences"?   That 3 different, unrelated sources, would point out reddish hair, which is the most rare coloring in the world, and particularly not common amongst Hebrews, is quite an odd and interesting correlation. 

I had a dream with Jesus last night. We were in a house with a number of people. The people considered Jesus to be a qualified teacher. He seemed very qualified, but without any pretense. Even though he had great knowledge, he didn't present himself as if he was special. He was very approachable.

A young man came into the house and people spoke as if he knows. Jesus walked up to this young man and looked at him. He saw that this young man didn't know. But then Jesus told this young man a few things and then he knew. The young man and Jesus both cried because of the beauty of what they knew. They knew about the beauty of divine truth. In some way I was connected with their interaction, but I'm not certain how.

KarmaLars-

Wow- there's a lot of material in your post ! Thanks for sharing it.I too have always wondered of the irony that those most espousing Christian 'values' often are also most likely to advocate violence, intolerance etc.- the antithesis of the Gospel Jesus !

D

KarmaLars wrote on Apr 11^th, 2012 at 11:59pm:

jdee 190. Hope this helps you in your Christian dilemma. If not, too bad! C&P'ed from another site. "It rests with every professor of the religion of Jesus to settle within himself to which of the two religions, that of Jesus or that of Paul, he will adhere." - Jeremy Bentham, in Not Paul But Jesus.     Yeshua bar Yosef (Yeshua, son of Joseph) is the original Aramaic name for Jesus the Nazarene. His parents, siblings, disciples, and followers called him by that name. The name "Jesus" is a misspelling and mispronunciation that resulted from the translation of Yeshua's name after his death, first into the Greek Iesous (pronounced "ee-ay-SUS"), and then from the Greek Iesous into the Latin Jesus. No one during Yeshua's life (prior to 30 CE) ever uttered the name, "Jesus." The letter "j" wasn't in the English language until the seventeenth century, so even in English, no one spoke the name "Jesus" until after that time. Content of This Web Site To understand Yeshua ben Yosef and the simple messages he spoke, we must go back to the time before his death in 30 CE, when Yeshua spoke humbly and lovingly, without the veil of a church that would separate him from the people to whom he wished to give his message. This Web site is devoted to helping humankind understand Yeshua, realize that Christianity is not Yeshua and doesn't own Yeshua, and overcome the damage the church has done in the name of Jesus Christ, the figure that the church created. It is not a Web site affiliated with or claiming allegiance to any religion, including Christianity. It is a spiritual site dedicated to understanding Yeshua and Yeshua's message in an effort to help humankind grow spiritually into the beings and society he knew we could be while in the Earthly plane of eternal life. We Must Understand Yeshua's Message without the Religious Shrouds that Smothered It Yeshua is a more profound figure, with the potential to have a more pervasive impact on humankind, than the Christian church has ever understood or been able to communicate. His life and teachings belong to humankind, not to a religious body. His wisdom and counsel stand with those of the Buddha and other brilliant luminaries who have communicated the truth of the eternal universe to humankind, helping people grow to spiritual maturity and bliss. His life is among the most inspiring accounts in humankind's history of love, spirituality, acceptance of others, suffering out of love, and forgiving all, even his executioners. Every human being—religious, atheist, spiritualist, or of any belief system—can learn from and be inspired by Yeshua's life. Unfortunately, who Yeshua was and what he taught have been enveloped in dark ecclesiastical shrouds that are now, justifiably, being stripped away by the relentless clawing to uncover truth by a humankind that has developed sharp talons of systematic inquiry and knowledge since the seventeenth century. However, the truths that were secreted away deep within the shrouds are becoming lost among the shreds of the deteriorating church. As the tatters that were the church are swept away, the spiritual guidance he provided must not be disposed of with them. The Bliss of Growing to Spiritual Maturity The reason Yeshua's message is so important to humanity is that our purpose in life is to grow in spiritual understanding and maturity, becoming blissful, unafraid of the transition called death, full of love and compassion toward others, and receiving the same love from others toward us. Every hour of every day of our lives should be filled with the warmth of love and peace with others—that is the Kingdom of God as Yeshua envisioned it. Humankind should be evolving to having unconditional love for all others in brotherhood and harmony, without interpersonal conflict and war. "The Kingdom of God is spread out upon the face of the earth, and men do not see it," Yeshua said (Gospel of Thomas). The writer of the Gospel of Luke reported that Yeshua said, "The kingdom of God does not come visibly, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you." Paradise isn't a place apart from Earth coming at a future time as the church describes it; Heaven is within us and spread out among all peoples upon the face of the earth and we're simply not living in it. Understanding and living the profound truths Yeshua, Buddha, and the other luminaries taught would open humankind's eyes to the Heaven, the Kingdom of God, that is already here—we just don't see it. Misinterpretation of Yeshua's Message Very soon after Yeshua died in around 30 CE, his followers gathered in Jerusalem to await his return to establish the Kingdom of Israel as promised in the Old Testament prophecies. In the years that followed Yeshua's death, they began to realize that the return of their Messiah might be delayed for a few more months or years, but surely not longer than that. And so they developed rules for the body of followers in a loosely formed organization. By the time of the Council of Jerusalem, in around 48 or 49 CE, the groups in Jerusalem and outside in the Diaspora had become more formalized, and could be referred to individually as churches. However, all of the believers together would not have been called a "church" in the larger sense of the term. There was a great diversity of beliefs about Yeshua during the first three centuries after his death Gradually, as Yeshua's return was delayed, syllables and words of an organized church began to be heard. A canon of texts had taken form by the end of the second century. Creeds had come into being stating the beliefs. More or less permanent meeting places had been established. It became obvious that Yeshua would not be returning imminently, so a church evolved. At the Council of Nicea, in 325 CE, around 300 bishops from a number of the larger, more established churches around the Mediterranean assembled to settle issues having to do with Yeshua's nature in relationship to God the Father. The Roman emperor Constantine presided, having been converted (ostensibly) to belief in Yeshua (now Jesus Christ). Christianity had a name and had become the state religion in the Roman Empire by the end of the fourth century. The Nicene Creed, written and revised in the fourth century, refers to a "holy catholic and apostolic church." Insignificant Christianity had grown from a persecuted sect to the most powerful religion in the empire. In the process, it had left the teachings of Yeshua in an archive and established its own structure, beliefs, and rules. The church created its own version of the Messiah, steadily embellishing the icon until all vestiges of the humble Jewish Rabbi named Yeshua had been expunged. It promoted itself to the position of omnipotent earthly representative of the God it had created, thereby itself assuming the stature and power of God, with all the rights, status, infallibility, and absolute power characteristic of a God. In the end, the church became the casing that held God, shielding God from humankind and serving up regulations and observances it required humankind to embrace. The church's functionaries, as the representatives of this God, eventually felt themselves to be demigods accountable only to the God they had created. They interpreted God for humankind, had license to commit any atrocities in the name of God and the church with impunity, and demanded that states and peoples defer to them in all matters of spirituality and human conduct. The list of crimes against humanity grew, while the church's coffers swelled from enticements to give money to the church fabricated by church leaders. The church sold guarantees of salvation for people and their deceased loved ones, in contradiction of Yeshua's words about spiritual growth and the necessity of being born again for salvation, and implied that people who did not give money to the church would be punished for eternity. The money enhanced the church's power and supported its actions. In the thick matrix of the church, Yeshua's teaching about love, forgiveness, peace, and humility were relegated to the ineffectual status of mindlessly repeated words that had become part of the liturgy. Yeshua's influence was purged from the church. Much of the church with the name Christ in it does not represent Yeshua ben Yosef. In this twenty-first century, humankind, with all of its diverse religions and belief systems, needs to learn about the teachings and model of Yeshua before 30 CE without the ecclesiastical shrouds of myths and rituals enveloping them. Humankind must separate itself from the church that itself grew into a God over the two millennia after Yeshua's death, and see, for the first time, the truths in Yeshua's teaching that will help individuals and humankind evolve to spiritual maturity. Yeshua's second coming will be in his being understood for the first time. The Results of Two Millennia of Paulianity The following article is reproduced from the Huffington Post, April 5, 2012. It describes where two millennia of Paulianity have brought society. There is very little of Yeshua ben Yosef in the organized religion that claims to be based on him and his teachings. There is, in fact, prominent teaching and action that is antithetical to Yeshua's teachings. Why Evangelicals Hate Jesus by Phil Zuckerman, Professor of Sociology Pitzer College Claremont, California The results from a recent poll published by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life (http://www.pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/Tea-Party-and-Religion.aspx) reveal what social scientists have known for a long time: White Evangelical Christians are the group least likely to support politicians or policies that reflect the actual teachings of Jesus. It is perhaps one of the strangest, most dumb-founding ironies in contemporary American culture. Evangelical Christians, who most fiercely proclaim to have a personal relationship with Christ, who most confidently declare their belief that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, who go to church on a regular basis, pray daily, listen to Christian music, and place God and His Only Begotten Son at the center of their lives, are simultaneously the very people most likely to reject his teachings and despise his radical message. Jesus unambiguously preached mercy and forgiveness. These are supposed to be cardinal virtues of the Christian faith. And yet Evangelicals are the most supportive of the death penalty, draconian sentencing, punitive punishment over rehabilitation, and the governmental use of torture. Jesus exhorted humans to be loving, peaceful, and non-violent. And yet Evangelicals are the group of Americans most supportive of easy-access weaponry, little-to-no regulation of handgun and semi-automatic gun ownership, not to mention the violent military invasion of various countries around the world. Jesus was very clear that the pursuit of wealth was inimical to the Kingdom of God, that the rich are to be condemned, and that to be a follower of Him means to give one's money to the poor. And yet Evangelicals are the most supportive of corporate greed and capitalistic excess, and they are the most opposed to institutional help for the nation's poor -- especially poor children. They hate anything that smacks of "socialism," even though that is essentially what their Savior preached. They despise food stamp programs, subsidies for schools, hospitals, job training -- anything that might dare to help out those in need. Even though helping out those in need was exactly what Jesus urged humans to do. In short, Evangelicals are that segment of America which is the most pro-militaristic, pro-gun, and pro-corporate, while simultaneously claiming to be most ardent lovers of the Prince of Peace. What's the deal? Before attempting an answer, allow a quick clarification. Evangelicals don't exactly hate Jesus -- as we've provocatively asserted in the title of this piece. They do love him dearly. But not because of what he tried to teach humanity. Rather, Evangelicals love Jesus for what he does for them. Through his magical grace, and by shedding his precious blood, Jesus saves Evangelicals from everlasting torture in hell, and guarantees them a premium, luxury villa in heaven. For this, and this only, they love him. They can't stop thanking him. And yet, as for Jesus himself -- his core values of peace, his core teachings of social justice, his core commandments of goodwill -- most Evangelicals seem to have nothing but disdain. And this is nothing new. At the end of World War I, the more rabid, and often less educated Evangelicals decried the influence of the Social Gospel amongst liberal churches. According to these self-proclaimed torch-bearers of a religion born in the Middle East, progressive church-goers had been infected by foreign ideas such as German Rationalism, Soviet-style Communism, and, of course, atheistic Darwinism. In the 1950s, the anti-Social Gospel message piggybacked the rhetoric of anti-communism, which slashed and burned its way through the Old South and onward through the Sunbelt, turning liberal churches into vacant lots along the way. It was here that the spirit and the body collided, leaving us with a prototypical Christian nationalist, hell-bent on prosperity. Charity was thus rebranded as collectivism and self-denial gave way to the gospel of accumulation. Church-to-church, sermon-to-sermon, evangelical preachers grew less comfortable with the fish and loaves Jesus who lived on earth, and more committed to the angry Jesus of the future. By the 1990s, this divine Terminator gained "most-favored Jesus status" among America's mega churches; and with that, even the mention of the former "social justice" Messiah drove the socially conscious from their larger, meaner flock. In addition to such historical developments, there may very well simply be an underlying, all-too-human social-psychological process at root, one that probably plays itself out among all religious individuals: they see in their religion what they want to see, and deny or despise the rest. That is, religion is one big Rorschach test. People look at the content of their religious tradition -- its teachings, its creeds, its prophet's proclamations -- and they basically pick and choose what suits their own secular outlook. They see in their faith what they want to see as they live their daily lives, and simultaneously ignore the rest. And as is the case for most White Evangelical Christians, what they are ignoring is actually the very heart and soul of Jesus's message -- a message that emphasizes sharing, not greed. Peace-making, not war-mongering. Love, not violence. Of course, conservative Americans have every right to support corporate greed, militarism, gun possession, and the death penalty, and to oppose welfare, food stamps, health care for those in need, etc. -- it is just strange and contradictory when they claim these positions as somehow "Christian." They aren't. Mentality of the Roman Catholic Church Those who have been abused by priests, and those of us who know and love them, have pondered at length what could cause officials of a church founded on the teachings of Yeshua to rape, sodomize, and even torture children and still believe they are somehow righteous. And what state of mind could result in the rest of the church defending the perpetrators and ignoring, buying off, and denigrating the victims? The answer, I believe, is that over the centuries since the Council at Nicea, the leaders in the church (Pope, cardinals, archbishops, bishops, nuns, and priests) came to believe that the church (meaning them) was the representative of God on Earth. If God was the heart of this body, they were the brain, vital organs, blood, limbs, eyes, ears, and all other parts of the body. The heart beat relentlessly in the innermost core of the church, but out of sight of any human being. The vital organs of the church sustained God—without them, God would perish. The limbs that acted in the outside world could do anything because the core heart they were sustaining was God. As a result, the body was to be protected at all costs, even to deceit, revision to fit their version of the truth, abuse, and homicide. The physical men and women became stewards of the God within, and thus their own instincts and needs were God's instincts and needs. The result has been an addiction to power. The words the abusers use when performing their atrocities are church words: "God will love you if . . ." "You have been chosen by God to . . ." "Do this to me so I can be closer to God . . ." and on and on. I have come to feel they actually believe the words they utter. The climate of the church has brought them to that point. Because of the requirement for celibacy and the greater likelihood that their lifestyle would be criticized if adults are involved in the acts, homosexuality and pedophilia became the most viable methods of satisfying their pent-up sexual urges. They have easy access to children, the influence that comes from the church's inculcating beliefs about church leaders being the representatives of God, and the remarkable privilege of being above the civil law because of their religious affiliation. The result has been widespread sexual abuse of children and adults that continues to this day. The priesthood has actually come to be seen as an attractive occupation for people who have these urges that can't easily be satisfied in society. And today, priests are reported to be focusing their abuse on the children of illegal immigrants because the immigrant families are frequently devoutly Catholic and fear deportation if they report the incidents. The abuse continues.

Thank You for this great piece KarmaLars.

I truely appreciate your help along with EVERYONE else

I have picked up on a few things here that kind of stood out for me...

For one, Jdee asked a question and the conversation went South, left, turned upside down and everything.

Then it was expressed that this person's points of views in contrast to everyone else's may be "skewed", because of age, lack of experience, and then finally, the undebatable "mental issues".

Then the tone changed...everyone had a softer tone and approach and now we all seemed a little more interested in helping, but from a much more "loving" point of view, once some variables were tossed around.

Ironically, this started about being about Jesus and teaching to "love at all costs", yet the common thing that happens in our Society bore it's ugly head in this thread!

People need to understand that if your point of view starts and ends with your own experience, then what you say to someone whose experience does not correlate, can be a waste of time, especially if you are thinking that they should accept what you are SAYING, but they themselves have not lived. That in itself undermines the concept of expressing an unconditional, unbiased, not measured by education, background, accomplishments, etc, etc, LOVE!

I relate to what Jdee is saying and going through, because it's an experience I share. I lost my grandfather and went through depression, extreme fear, thoughts of suicide, mental ineptness, etc, etc. One might have said that I had a "mental problem"..... See where this is going? At 35, I STILL struggle with concepts of life. Not to that extreme point anymore, but the only cure was my experience. Jdee has yet to get there, and I think it's best to encourage her direction more than opposing her beliefs.

It's the same way you talk people down off of ledges...you don't castigate them for being up there and feeling the way they feel. You reinforce hope and offer love! Just understand that so many people are trapped in belief systems and circumstances that they have no Earthly clue how to change. They just know (or remember) that they woke up one day and they were here and there was a group of people that loved them and a set of rules they had to follow. To suggest just un-following those rules as an answer is dangerous and is more damaging than people know.

I just want Jdee to know that I was there too, and without this site, for giving me ideas to consider, I would be dead right now. That is the honest, truth! Everything we invest in as human beings has flaws, from our religion, love for our identity, whether it be race, views, background, etc., our Science, our Laws, EVERYTHING! But what is 100% true and real is that we all die one day and there is too much to suggest that it's all for nothing or even that we just go to Heaven or Hell! Just try and create a peaceful balance in your life until these answers come to you, because the start was to seek answers in the first place!

That is already more than MOST people do! And from there, God does lead you to knowing him and yourself, which are synonymous and no coincidence. Fear is normal and natural...the wrong reaction to it is the problem. Embrace it and let it lead you to being open minded about how to understand and overcome it. I promise you, you will find answers and your "mental problem" will be a moment in time you can look back to to measure your growth!

And for my last note, if you have an actual, incurable mental issue, reading a book CANNOT be medicine for it...my nephew has autism and he has no realization of it like you do of your "problem". Don't let more flawed people put the way you think into a box or matched with a condition. Continue to pray for answers and live to LOVE!

That is my only "advice"....

Related to what Karma Lars posted, the Republican party basically takes advantage of people who are tooooooooooooooooo afraid to consider the fact that perhaps some of the things the Bible says isn't accurate.

Therefore, Republican leaders are able to say things such as family values (translation:  homophobia) and get people to re-elect a president who did many un-Christlike things. Started wars, imprisoned people without due process of law, tortured people, supported corporate greed, was in office when 3 buildings fell to the ground as if 3 controlled explosions took place even though there was no apparent cause for why they would do so.

  Speaking of Love and Yeshua.  In the New Age of our times, Love often gets pigeon holed to be solely the propriety of the Feminine or Yin side of Consciousness.  We forget that the teacher and exemplar of Love par excellence, was not always super gentle, nurturing, and soft in nature.  See his scathing words and rebuttals to the Pharisees, Scribes, Merchants, etc, or his occasional strong or firm words to those not in power--such as the widower who would not stop grieving over the death of a loved one, or the Samaritan woman by the well who refused him a drink of water because he was Hebrew and she Samaritan.   "Woman, you hardly know the meaning of husband..."   

   He taught and showed that Love also contains the Yang expression, which we could call "Tough Love".   Tough, Yang oriented Love is not as soft and gentle as the Yin, Feminine expression.   He, as a Teacher, could be intense in manner. 

   But, the one common thread and commonality between the more Yang expression of Love or the more Yin, is that of positive intent and desire for the spiritual best of others.  There are times to express the more Yang side of Love and times to express the more Yin side.  It depends on the moment, the situation, the individual, and it can change from moment to moment even with the same individual. 

  Speaking of which, my guidance has occasionally given me critical feedback of self, told me that i need to work on certain things, or change in certain ways.  If we believe only in the New Age, and Feminine polarized version of Love, then i suppose that my guidance doesn't really "Love" me, for they spoke strong words to me or were no nonsense? 

  Yet, i know they/expanded self have told me these things, precisely because they DO love me, know i can do better, and expect better of me.   Love never tries to wound or hurt, but Love does not always coddle personalities/egos. 

   If one really wants to know the fullness of Love, in it's balance of Yin-Yang, and Fire, Earth, Water, and Air, then look at Yeshua's example.  A man that usually was gentle, kind, soft spoken and supportive of others (Water and/or Air), but also one that was not afraid to speak his mind and heart bluntly (Fire and/or Earth), to point out lacks or non constructive patterns, to be firm, serious or no nonsense (Earth), or not afraid to get fiery and passionate (Fire) about certain things not based on self, but the concern for others and the Whole. 

   Unless one approaches him in their own consciousness and vibratory patterns, then one will not and cannot fully understand all of what he was about, how he lived and why he lived the way he did.  It's the immutable Law of Like attracts, begets, and perceives/understands Like. 

  He lived with NO fear, can we do likewise?  Sometimes we say nice, supportive things not because we are being truly positive, but because we are trying to maintain a certain positive, social image.  Sometimes we withhold critical feedback, not because we don't think those thoughts or are so "loving", but because we are afraid of what others will think about us and our "degree of spirituality" and our image.

  When we can drop typical, human judgmentalism, which is so based on limited beliefs, perceptions, and often reactions related to self and self's issues, and we attune to PUL, then we can come to judge in a very different manner, a more self detached manner that is concerned truly with others and the Whole and sees/perceives from a much broader perspective. 

This is how the Elders (and Yeshua) who overlook Life reviews "judge".  A completely different thing than typical human judgement--there is always Love, positive intention, and spiritual discernment/wisdom behind it.  With all that said, for humans to judge in the manner of Yeshua and the Elders/Completed Ones, is quite rare and most of us, including this self, could use less typical judgment and more focus on seeing the positive and constructive within others and self. 

  No black and whites here folks. 

Hello people, just logged on for the first time in a few days.

Once again I thank you all, I just purchased Walking in the Garden of Souls by George Anderson. Hope it helps.

  Me too Jdee.  I figure we can be inspired by others and their information or experiences, but really our healing comes more through the deep desire for that and getting fed up with suffering and making those necessary internal changes and choices which change that. 

  A thought occurred to me, that perhaps one of your blocks or limitations, is focusing too much on others and sources outside yourself?  Perhaps you would gain more by going within, under more ideal conditions? 


  To the Forum and all group members re: Yeshua (Jesus Christ).  Some of you may perhaps, at times, wonder why i focus so much on him, speak out against sources which degrade him and his example, etc. 

   Is it because i'm just that obsessed with a fellow human or so insecure about my own beliefs?   The real, or primary reason is because, to me, Yeshua is a symbol or representation of truth, and not just truth, but Truth in the ultimate and most expanded sense.  We tend to talk about PUL here at this site, because PUL is an important part of Bruce's work and teachings, which is one of the things which attracted me to Bruce's work to begin with, for, i found out the existence and importance of PUL and like concepts well before i became aware of Bruce Moen. 

   I find that PUL is such a vast concept, with so many layers, and so holistic and connected to virtually everything we experience, that PUL is still yet a bit in it's infancy of understanding and living within the bulk of humanity.  If you look at the state of the world and most people, this is obvious to see.  Sometimes we who are more mature, or live more secluded, sheltered lives, forget that much of the rest of humans and the world does not enjoy our peace, our level of joy, clarity or centeredness. 

   I know that Yeshua and PUL might as well be synonymous, and that since he was the only human in the public spot light so far, to really truly and completely live and personify PUL to the utmost degree, that his example and life is still very much applicable to humanity even 2000 years later.   

   I figure many here are at the point in their growth, wherein they are becoming more deeply interested in the fullness of PUL and that they are ready for the highest and ultimate truth and thus they can learn from the most pure, clear, and effective example of same. 

  I do, sometimes, find it a bit upsetting when popular sources are supported which undermine and degrade this highest, ultimate truth.  It's not a personal or personality thing, but wanting to see humanity grow to it's full potential and knowing that that we do not get there, partly because not enough people use their spiritual discernment or discrimination enough and allow or even support hindering forces that help keep us stuck. 

  There are those that try to retrieve us, and there are those that try to keep us stuck. The latter is not often addressed here by most.  Perhaps this is partly because Bruce's work contains so little emphasis on it?

  Anyways, i know that Yeshua has the job of freeing others spiritually, or "retrieving" if you prefer.  Not the only one by any means, but certainly the longest term, most aware, and effective retriever out there.  I speak not for him, in a personal sense, but because i speak for and care about the ultimate truth of which he represents and teaches.  That of PUL in it's most pure, true, and expanded essence, example, and understanding.

   If you want to become a pure channel of PUL or at least continue to grow in Love, you must follow in his footsteps and be like him, for he is the only standard of same.  That seems like a tall order, and while it's certainly not easy, it's not beyond accomplishing.  In order to eventually experience what he experienced, you must first be at least somewhat open, on a belief system level, to the possibility that it's possible for you and other humans to become like him.  Many, unfortunately, find it easier to not "believe in" or actively minimize him and his example, because of the difficult reactions he brings up within many of us on an unconscious level. 

That pure, undiluted, intense Light, oddly can be "scary" to those stuck parts of ourselves, and we can shy away from the transformational power of it because part of self is afraid of not existing anymore if it gets too close to that kind of pure Light.  The time is coming, in the nearish future, when he will go public again, and those who work for him and for ultimate truth, are preparing the way for this eventual event. 

  One way to do this, is to bring him out into the awareness and consciousness of others in a non religious and non organized, dogmatic belief system way.  To reveal what he truly was and is about beyond the misconceptions, manipulations, and deceptions of those who claim his name for their own limited and/or selfish purposes. 

  It is not easy, nor has it ever been, in this world, to stand up for him and what he represents.  In this world, he and what he represents is largely ignored, disliked, or even hated and in many cases, it's only the false images and belief systems created around him that others look to.  If you truly follow  him, and follow in his footsteps, you too will not be well tolerated in this world until it transforms more, you too will know deep challenges and strife with others, but that degree of PUL and attunement to same is so, so, so unbelievably worth it.  The sheer joy and at peaceness you will gain from it, is so worth it in the end. 

  This is why i speak on and support Yeshua.  It is part of my "job" and purpose here.