These two (or more?) retrievals were different in the context that the persons
needing retrievals weren't in any obvious distress. They developed over
2-3 days, but not in parallel.

I didn't immediately recognized the situations as retrievals.


WESTERN RAIN COAT WOMAN

The feeling was of black-and-white Hollywood movies, so I guess the time
period was 1950ies, perhaps a little earlier.

In fact this retrieval of a woman was a little puzzling as I got the
impression of two or maybe three different women. Perhaps the 1950ies
movie era time period is something some people escape into or recreate?

I am not completely sure that I was in F 23. Maybe it could have been F 24-25,
but it didn't have the feeling of a belief system territory (BST). At the same
time, the Alcoholics' Hell doesn't have much of a belief either (and it's
supposed to be in F 25?).

(Frank DeMarco opens for the idea that there are consensus areas in F 23
as well, but those consensus areas are not colored by beliefs. Instead they
can be more like dull shopping malls.)

Strangely enough, the feeling in this black-and-white world was quite
pleasant.


I was outdoors at night, it was raining. I got the feeling that I was in
some kind of town in France. There were some houses, 3-4 stories high,
parks, single trees, streets, pavements, etc. Things you may find in a town.

It was dark, and the rain was also kind of dark and being reflected in
the street lights. Perhaps there was a lonely car somewhere.

I noticed a woman in a plastic rain coat. The scene continued like a
black-and-white movie all the time. The woman moved forward along the
street. She is mid thirty and has a rather slim, yet curved figure.

I followed at some distance. Eventually she came to a stop in front
of a small newspaper shop, perhaps just a kiosk. Behind her I notice a man,
4-5 meters away. He is wearing a dark suit and a hat, just like Gregory
Peck in an old movie. He looks at her back, but doesn't do anything.
I can't make out if he is a helper.

Another younger man/boy walks past her, carrying newspapers (or something he
wants to sell) in a big bag. Perhaps the boy is a thoughtform?

I approach the woman and calmly states: "It's a massive rain. It has rained for quite some time now."
I ask her if she doesn't get wet. She replies that she has an excellent rain coat.

Somehow we have move forward, closer to the newspaper kiosk, it has an
opening to the street, without any window glass. At the opening there is
a counter surface, with the area of a regular table.

The woman in the rain coat places several photos on the surface of the kiosk's
counter. There is a small roof above us, like a counter lid, being kept up by
thin wooden sticks, which prevents the photos from getting wet by the rain.

The kiosk doesn't seem to have any sales person, so no one is preventing us
from using the counter. The photos and perhaps some drawings also, show fashion
clothes, some being worn by people, other clothes are just shown for themselves.

I think the woman says that she is interested in fashion and these pictures
somehow are related to her, either being her creations or fashion ideas.

I tell her that I know of someone who is interested in fashion and perhaps
can help her realize her ideas into something real. She becomes very
interested. At this moment my view fades away. I think a third person
enters the scene and gets the rain coat woman's attention.

But I don't know.

Nevertheless I get the goose bump energy wave feelings which usually marks
the end of a successful retrieval, and has lost the scene.


Now?

Woman No 2?


I get the impression of a woman. The same woman? Perhaps this is a another
woman in a similar situation?

Woman No 2 is running on the wet pavements of the street. She is running and
running. I try to follow. Is this a guide who just is testing my ability to
follow after? Why is she running?

I send some PUL.

(Stop running!)

I become more sure that this is a different woman, and not the same as I met
earlier, but I never become completely sure. It's very rainy. The woman
seems to slow down her speed and walks. Maybe she notices me?

I can see reflections of street lights on wet black pavement tiles. We walk
past a couple, a man and a woman also wearing rain coats in the same style
as Woman No 2. Are the couple a thoughtform? I continue to follow the woman
and we move past an iron fence to a town park.

She has a very long rain coat. It seems to be both black and slightly
transparent. I am now so close that I say to her: "We have met before."

I continue: "We have a common friend."

Somehow we are approaching what to me seems to be a cinema with its
entrance on the rounded corner of a town block. There are a few people
outside. I say: "Look, there is our friend!"

Fuzzy feeling.

I don't know what happened here. I don't think I clicked out, but can't
be sure of course. Perhaps woman No 2 went to her friend?


Woman No 3?

A third woman.

This became a little exhausting. This new woman looks like the movie star
of an old outdoor drama. She has a smooth, dark rain coat, a rain bonnet
over her hair, and high heeled shoes (!). It's not raining as heavily
as before.

I get to see her face several times. She actually looks happy. I move
away from her and she is talking to a man in dark clothes. Maybe she is
a few years younger than the two other women? I somehow move back and
forward in front of her, can't get a fix. Can't remember if I say anything
or if I sent PUL. I think I got her attention somehow, though.

Things shift rapidly now. It is suddenly day time. The sun is shining.

I'm in a town somewhere, most likely France. I watch as the movie woman
walks through the town streets. I am somehow in front of her, perhaps
walking backwards. I notice several houses and the streets are narrow
and not completely straight. I look closer at the buildings and am able
to observe some details of the houses' windows.

The movie woman walks into a cafe and sits down at a table. There are
no one else there and the tables the chairs are very slender.


Phff... I don't know what to make of the last scene. I just faded out of
it.

Could it be that the woman wasn't really moved to F 27, but at least
was moved from the dark rainy setting to a more positive mood?

Or maybe the women will move upwards all by themselves once their moods
have changed a little? Perhaps I wasn't supposed to retrieve, I was just
their to help them move a bit forward?

---------



AMAZON INDIAN

This retrieval also happened over several days, as I got back to the scene
without figuring out that it was not a guide, who wanted to show me something.

Somehow this was a simpler retrieval, but I'm not sure what I did
that helped the man.


I'm in a rain forest, a jungle. I get the impression of the Amazon.
I'm standing in a clearance, in a village. Much of my surroundings go
the color of green as there is much vegetation.

I get the feeling of 1970ies, and this retrieval was normal in the sense
that the surroundings had normal colors, as opposed to the rain coat woman
retrieval.


In front of me is a South American native Indian. He is probably
about 60 years. He has short straight, black hair formed like an upside down bowl
and looks kind of Incan. It's probably quite warm in this region, as he has
almost no clothes. He wears a few decorations, like strings of glass bead bands.

He talks to me. I don't understand him. At some moments we are inside a hut,
then we shift and are outside. I wouldn't exactly say that our movement
are completely coherent. We shift location a little random. He smiles to
me and after having talked to me some more he wants me to follow him.

We now stand on the side of a wide river. We are having the rain forest
behind our backs. The river water is flowing rather calmly. The Indian
points with his index finger to the opposite river side.

In fact he is pointing above the jungle trees at the opposing river side,
pointing towards something in the sky far beyond the jungle. He talks to
me several times as he points.

I don't get him. I look hard in the direction of what he points at, and
finally I can see something which gloves like a very bright sun. The sun
is surrounded by red, dark smoke, the smoke slowly drifts from right to left,
which is the opposite direction of the flow of the river water.

This scene is repeated again 1 or two days later (later sessions). I still
don't get it.

I then try to intensely listen to exactly what he says, it comes out as:

"Moto-moto-moto-moto... Moto-moto-moto...moto-moto..." (etc)

I don't know how I appear to him or what he thinks I responds, but I try
to talk to him in words that sounds similar to his moto-moto words.

He becomes angry. In fact I for a brief moment get the impression that he
turns into some kind of monster with pointy teeth, not human at all.

Apparently I managed to make him upset.

I send him some PUL.

He calms down.

He takes out a very small white cloth pouch and opens it. It contains
some beans or brown nuts. He puts his mouth and nose into the pouch like
it was a handkerchief. I'm a little unsure if he eats something or does
something completely different, like smells into the pouch?

From a distance, up streams the river I can see a canoe approach, it approaches from
my left side, when I face the river. I have also had the old Indian man
at my left side, while facing the river.

In the canoe two Indian men are sitting and rowing. The canoe stops in
front of us and the old Indian man steps into the canoe, between the two
other men. Apparently he already know them. Before they paddle away the
old man waves good bye and smiles at me, possible saying something.

He seemed happy to get out of the place after all.


I'm guessing now, but I think he somehow knew he was dead, and perhaps knew
that his friends in the canoe wanted to take him with them. But something
prevented him from leaving.

The calmness with which he left, gives me the impression that he already knew
and that he probably had this knowledge as part of his beliefs.

The smoke, could it have been from some kind of modern pollution?

Quote:

(Frank DeMarco opens for the idea that there are consensus areas in F 23 as well, but those consensus areas are not colored by beliefs. Instead they can be more like dull shopping malls.)

I've wondered about this before. 

Last week I did a mass retrieval and found myself in a tropical swamp of some kind.  A squad or platoon of soldiers was struggling towards the sound of machine gun fire.  A number of helpers and I retrieved the whole group, so it was obviously a consensus area.  But where was the belief that would make it a BST?  I suppose you could say all the soldiers *believed* they were still fighting the enemy, but it seems to be a hollow explanation.

I've also heard accounts of retrievers running into groups of people just wondering around with no particular beliefs.

I've been thinking of buying a new book, would you recommend any of DeMarco's?

Regarding your
"But where was the belief that would make it a BST"

Bruce and experienced retrievers have found it possible to later go back into the experience as it was and ask such questions.

Perhaps they were defending their village or way of life, or they had a charismatic leader they followed... 

Did the soldiers say they had no purpose? It would be striking if armies have no purpose (valid enough to destroy life.)

Bets

eric wrote on Feb 9^th, 2012 at 9:17pm:

A squad or platoon of soldiers was struggling towards the sound of machine gun fire.  A number of helpers and I retrieved the whole group, so it was obviously a consensus area.  But where was the belief that would make it a BST?  I suppose you could say all the soldiers *believed* they were still fighting the enemy, but it seems to be a hollow explanation. I've also heard accounts of retrievers running into groups of people just wondering around with no particular beliefs. I've been thinking of buying a new book, would you recommend any of DeMarco's?

I put a review of some DeMArco books in the News forum. DeMarco doesn't go into much details about his F 23 findings, and as stated in my review, he lacks some kind of structure in his writings, which makes it harder to get a clear picture.

I would not be surprised if the fighting squad was resident of F 25 or at least F 24 as they had a common belief - to fight the enemy. Unless most of the soldiers were thoughtforms of one or a few people?

I think DeMarco says that there are areas in the non-physical of which people has the same concept in their minds. Opinions about how their regular life should be, but they have no particular belief in any 'higher' goal. People walking around in a shopping mall, may not have any belief at all on anything. But they may have a common picture about what their lives would contain, for example a huge mall.

Strangely enough, the Homeless' City and the Alcoholics' Hell (Heaven?) are supposed to reside in F 25, right? They don't have any higher belief, more than to drink booze and that being homeless is the only way of living?

The possibility also exists that DeMarco skipped ahead (in Moen style) of F 23 and in fact entered F 25, while he still was fed with F 23 Hemi-Sync.

Some of my F 23 retrievals have been while I listened to H-S JOOB Condition C (and Condition D) CDs, so exactly what Focus area we end up in based on a certain H-S, may be questionable, if our guides push us forward. I'm also open for the possibility that guides open up a connection from one Focus Level and connect it to a Focus Level close by, if they sense the opportunity of a retrieval.

At the same time, DeMarco is almost the only one who has opened the possibility of consensus areas in F 23. The only exception I know of with more than one person in F 23 is a story about three young persons who had gathered together and felt themselves "unworthy" of moving forward, so they were stuck in an F 23 house.

Quote:

Did the soldiers say they had no purpose? It would be striking if armies have no purpose (valid enough to destroy life.)

They all seemed focused on wading towards the sound of machine gun fire.  The sense I got is that the whole squad was taken out at once, say by a mortar or artillery shell, and they just kept going.  I didn't interact too much, I just waved my arms and shouted to get their attention and a line of helpers in military garb stepped in and escorted the squad away from the scene.


Quote:

The possibility also exists that DeMarco skipped ahead (in Moen style) of F 23 and in fact entered F 25, while he still was fed with F 23 Hemi-Sync.

I've spontaneously dropped down to F3 while being fed F10 Hemi-Sync.  I think the tones are more like road signs pointing the way to a certain state of consciousness.