I want to revisit an NDE I posted here a long time ago.  I read an account of this NDE in Albert Baldeo's newpaper column and I later confirmed his story by meeting with him in Kelowna, BC.  Albert Baldeo was a friend of my Dad's and the most respected minister in Kelowna, BC (with the United Church of Canada).  Albert's Dad lay dying in a nursing home there and Albert rushed to maintain a deathbed vigil.  What he didn't know was this: his Dad's brother (Albert's uncle) was also dying in a nursing home 10 miles away and family members were present with him as well to later confirm what I'm about to share.
At around noon on Tuesday, Albert's Dad suddenly sat up, gazed knowingly into the distance, and shouted, "Hurry up, brother!  Hurry up!"  Simultanously, his brother sat up, gazed into the distance, and shouted, "Wait for me, brother!  Wait for me!'  Then both brothers passed away at the same time.  Family members confirmed what was said and at exactly what time in both nursing homes.

My interpretation: Both brothers were in the process of detaching from their physical bodies and were communicating in their spirit bodies, while still amazingly able to use their vocal cords.  They were now in a realm without space; so the 10 mile distance between their physical bodies was no longer a barrier to communication.  Their conversation was perfectly synchronized and made perfect sense when the notes of eyewitnesses were compared.  This remarkable NDE cannot adequately be explained as mere ESP. 

This NDE suggests experiments like this: Two mediums A and B each agree to channel one of your deceased parents.  Your Mom speaks to you and your late Dad through A; and your Dad speaks to both you and your late Mom through B.  Both Mom and Dad should be able to reveal paranormally gleaned infornation about your life with them by talking to each other through A and B and by talking to you as well.  They should also be able to discuss their life together in their current spirit plane.  The Albert Baldeo NDEs suggest that such an experiment is feasible.  So why has it never been done?

Amazing story, Don.

I believe that NDEs are the most valid way of getting a look at the other side. 

Your idea about the two mediums is of high merit.  But as it is all second hand, and some mediums like Edwards don't actually have conversations, but see flashed of images or pictures, I'm not sure that you could easily ask the medium to have your dead mom chat with your dead dad, etc. 

I also believe, as I've said before that based on Swedenborg's experience, specific information is likely only to be quickly supplied by the very recently deceased. 

I believe that few mediums will subject themselves to controlled experimentation.  Edwards and a few others have allowed it, but most mediums are not interested in doing so.

A great idea however.

I also like the idea of cross correspondences to test mediums proposed by Frederic Meyers.  This occurs when several different mediums receive pieces of a message which independently mean nothing, but when assembled together yield a coherent message.  It was said that Meyers planned to send different messages, and after death many mediums began to receive strange messages that on their own did not make sense:

http://www.victorzammit.com/book/chapter16.html

I haven't investigated these thoroughly, but it seems that if one could plan, prior to physical death to devise a message and send it through to different mediums in pieces like this, there would be strong evidence that a deceased person was in fact transmitting messages. 


Matthew

Don-

there are currently 20 Certified Research Mediums working with the Windbridge Institute - why not e-mail them with your idea at : info@windbridge.org .

D

To me, Albert Baldeo's NDE makes more sense if we reject the ghost-within-a machine view of the mind-body connection.  It is not that the soul is slowly "tearing" away from its connection "inside" the physical body.  Rather, mind (existing in a monspatial dimension) is gradually becoming more limited in the various ways it uses the physical body like a radio transmitter. 

Berserk2 wrote on Dec 15^th, 2011 at 5:58pm:

To me, Albert Baldeo's NDE makes more sense if we reject the ghost-within-a machine view of the mind-body connection.  It is not that the soul is slowly "tearing" away from its connection "inside" the physical body.  Rather, mind (existing in a monspatial dimension) is gradually becoming more limited in the various ways it uses the physical body like a radio transmitter.

Or could "death" be an expansion of the soul beyond the physical body's ability to transmit and receive? 

I find it surprising that Don suggests the possibility that mediums allow spirits to speak through them for the sake of a test.

Don, like I, isn't a big fan of this kind of channeling. Too often channelers seem questionable to me. How could mediums insure that only the spirits they want to be a voice piece for end up being the spirits they channel? I figure some well meaning people have channeled deceptive spirits without realizing that this is what they are doing.

Posters here have often given 2 contradictory impressions: (1) that in the afterlife progress is based on the principle of like attracts like; (2) that soul retrievals are made possible by the will of the "trapped" soul to join the retrievals for a" higher" spiritual plane. The latter assumption is based on the assumption that the lower planes are peopled by self-imposed imprisonment and thus one need only choose to bust out of jail.  But denizens of lower planes find their way there precisely because they are fundamentally "unlike" those on higher planes, for example, in their progress in PUL.  So the preusmed retrieval seems to violate the principle of like attracts like.  How can this contradciton be resolved?  I have offered my own theory about this in the past, but what we need is a way through NDEs, ADCs, channleing, etc. to engage discarnate spirits in conversation about how this paradox is to be resolved.

My impression is that retrievals are primarily used for "stuck" souls - usually the recently deceased who get caught up in a certain pattern of thinking - who have not sorted themselves willingly into a heaven or a hell. 

True, Bruce has written of visits to Max's hell - a sadist who enjoyed inflicting misery on others - but he did not retrieve Max, but merely observed him. 

The idea is that those in lower spiritual planes can still see us (incarnate humans projecting in the astral), so that if we get their attention, we can refocus it toward an outside helper who they otherwise wouldn't try to see.

Now all this presupposes: A: that the spirit will be interested in engaging us and open minded to refocusing his/her attention so that B: the helper can be recognized.  In order for conditions A and B to be met, the person must be open to being helped and have a desire at some level to change their current condition.

In Bruce's example of Max's hell, Max was in his element, and had no desire to exit the circle of pain he was part of. 

Like may attract like, but I believe that soul retrieval is based on a select group of souls who may be confused or stuck in a thought pattern - in essence they haven't passed through the first stage of death completely to have embraced their true loves (the second stage of death).

I do understand Don's point here; it is a similar argument about "sola fide" or faith alone without works.  The faith alone argument is that some christians believe that salvation can come from faith in God without charity or actions that are coupled with faith.  Others, myself included believe that faith without charity (action) is not true faith and meaningless.   

Likewise for retrievals.  Don lets us ponder; why would an unloving soul be retrieveable from a hell just because we get its attention?  Why would the soul's vibration suddenly turn toward love and then allow that person to get a "get-out-of-hell free" card so speak, without a true process of gradually becoming more loving?

In other words - if a soul is at a lower level of love  - perhaps a spiteful soul - why would a human retriever be able to retrieve it so easily?   My answer - it would not be easy.  Those retrieved are, for the most part stuck in the beginning stage of death, and thus open to the intervention of helpers.


Matthew

How about this possibility? There is a spirit who is so stuck in its negativity that it is highly unlikely to consider another way.  A person makes use of energy in a way where that spirit gets energetically attracted to that person. The spirit merges with that person. Because that person has been energetically developed, cleansing energy can be ran through that person. This cleansing energy cleanses the confused spirit sufficiently enough so it can see through its psychological haze and consider a more positive possibility.

I have reasons for believing the above possibility is definitely possible. :) Perhaps this option is better than the soul anihilation Bruce Moen wrote about.

Bruce writes that souls in the lower hellish planes can be almost impossible to retrieve.  I come at this issue from 2 perspectives: (1) the New Testament and early second century church teach that retrievals are possible because God' love never permanently abandons anyone after death; (2) in the eloquent words of Christian apologist, C. S. Lewis, the gates of Hell are locked from the inside.  In George Ritchie's amazing NDE, he witnesses loving beings hovering over denizens of a hellish plane, presumably to serve as a positive or restraining influence.    

I figure that if some beings get so locked up in their negativity that they can't access their freewill in a meaningful and productive way, it would be great if a way was found where they can be helped.

It is possible that Moen, Lewis and Ritchie weren't aware of all of the ways that exist.

Many physicists are now theorizing that the world as we know it is actually a virtual reality.  A virtual reality can be defined as a reality in which the users (us) becomes fully immersed in an artificial, three dimensional world that is generated by a computer.  To the users "living" within a VR, the VR appears to be physical because it is the perception of the VR's users that defines the meaning of "physical" within that reality.  The main clue that a reality is virtual is that the users within the VR can never ascertain a physical source or cause for the initial formation of their reality because none can exist. 

In addition, all other realities appear to be non-physical to those within any particular VR.  For example, to those of us living in this world, this reality appears physical, whereas to someone living say in focus 27, this world would appear just as non-physical to them as focus 27 appears to us.

Assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, how would it then effect communication and interaction between beings living in one reality with those living in a different reality?  What would be the implications?

Kathy

When a computer creates a virtual reality, this computer exists within a vast universe.  Therefore, there is a substantial basis for what allows a computer to exist in a way where it can create a virtual reality.

When it comes to that which projects this universe, I figure there is a substantial basis for how it operates. Awareness, intelligence, intent and the application of the beingness/energy/substance that is used to project work together.

Or in other words, even if one says everything is just a projection, a hologram, this doesn't mean there isn't anything substantial that makes such a projection possible.

When it comes to beings from different levels of reality, I believe that energetic differences do make a difference,