I get the broad idea, none of u fear death as such, but is there an aspect of death that yet scares u? :(

Please share

the pain  :-/

The very slim possibility that I was wrong in my uderstanding that the soul survives...That fear reduces with time, as I get more experience with the afterlife and those who live there.

failure

Failure...of what

The only aspect of death I have a certain amount of fear about is getting there and that's mostly pain and suffering. I'd like to go like Yogananda and just sit quietly meditating and pass into the infinite quickly and peacefully. No trauma. Other than that I'm pretty cool with death. If I'm wrong I guess I'll find out or it won't make any difference in the end.

Thats a good point Beau, i guess that "it" moment would be like tht choking game kids play, well i played it once in highschool...i know u lost a close one to that wretched game tho :(

Yes, that was Jeremy and he was super kid with an amazing ability to see life as it is, and a super guitar player too.

its times like these when i kinda doubt the whole "plan" thingy, when ppl die in such freak accidents...or when they r murdered mercilessly in such cold blood curdling fashion.... :o...wat "lesson" can one learn frm tht brutality, or tht freakishness..

Its all part of the Play of Life. We all have our part to play. The goal of being here in my opinion is to realize you are playing a character and get in touch with the Actor that is the real you just as that Actor is trying to get in touch with you. Some people use guides for this or religions or both. And some choose to go it alone, but ultimately I think we will all come to the same conclusion and then have a good laugh about it in some pub created by the larger reality beyond this physical plane. That's just how I see it. And I've thought about it for a longtime. Its not everyone's idea and that's cool with me. I don't need anyone else's approval for how I see it. We are entertaining God as much as we are learning something, maybe more so in some cases.

So beau then maybe il never meet u in real in this life, but in the afterlife we can share a drink over it...:-)

Hey seeking_answers,

There are events in life that are ok in theory and that are different when the time comes. Maybe the avid non-fearer fears and vice versa. Sometimes it's easier to say we have no fears and life seems easier because of it. Trying to be honest at least with our selves I think will help in the long run.

When reading your initial post I thought about physical death sometimes happening so fast the physical pain is hardly registered. There will be some transitions that are so smooth people are surprised to find that they aren't making the bodies move anymore.

Many years ago I tried to kick the bucket. Sounds painful but can't remember physical pain once the rope snapped. Could very well be that once the time comes it's a lot softer than expected.

i feel u volu, esp the point about non fearers, im actually amazed when ppl say they dont fear death, im totally afraid of it :o...and then the question..."what if we were wrong all along". i guess it wud be too late till then

I'm not amazed that death is feared, seeking. I do pretty well with that fear, but I have other fears that may be very small and trivial to others but big for me. What if I was wrong - I could very well be about everything but I don't fear that. I'm calmly okay with that now, so that and 'too late' don't ring any alarms.

Well, I will certainly meet you all in that pub conjured up by Beau. I would have no problem with this all ending up easier than anticipated....

Volu wrote on Oct 31^st, 2011 at 1:26pm:

I'm not amazed that death is feared, seeking. I do pretty well with that fear, but I have other fears that may be very small and trivial to others but big for me. What if I was wrong - I could very well be about everything but I don't fear that. I'm calmly okay with that now, so that and 'too late' don't ring any alarms.

cud it be possible for u to explain tht a bit volu? :-[...pls pm me if u dont feel like typing it here on the post...much appreciated, thanks.. :)

Seeking, I feel a lot more comfortable about thoughts of dying than speaking to big groups of people. Though willingly accepting a challenge a couple of years ago about being a trainer for over 250 people split into groups of 15 I still don't like that at all. What could go wrong did on so many levels, haha, with no way out other than for the one-man-band to try to play all the instruments, at once. But the more I've dealt with fears the more they have lessened. Haven't found any universal keys to unlock fears but rather personal ones that were and are right for me, by trial and error. Keys as in the right way to deal with different fears. That's what I find difficult about these subjects; it's been said many times before and still rings true, what works for you doesn't have to work for me. You're here and that could mean that you've determined knowledge about the subject you fear can help you understand it and thus not fearing it at some point?

Amen to that Volu....

I am afraid to fly, and I was a military pilot for many years! That one kind of snuck up on me, but it has been hard to put to rest. Death seems simple, compared to the complexities of the sub-conscious mind sometimes.

... of achieving life's purpose.

  I sometimes have a similar concern Crossbow (i wouldn't necessarily call it a fear per se, as that brings to mind visceral and strong emotions). 

  An occasional concern with whether or not i will live up to my potential and what i came here to accomplish.  Part of it is just typical, "ego", selfishness stuff, but part of it is also related to a concern with impacting the Whole in the most positive way i can, in order to be part of the solution rather than the stuckness. 

  Either way, i'm sure things will be fine whether or not i do live up to that potential and the goals my Disk set up for us for this life.  There is always others that have that potential.  (while I acknowledge that, for whatever reason I still feel something akin to a sense of urgency).

  Every birth is a chance, a possibility for the ultimate purpose of life to fulfill itself within a person and individuality, like it did an age ago.  Yet, sometimes I wonder why it's been so, so rare within a physical lifetime.

wrote on Oct 31^st, 2011 at 9:30pm:

I sometimes have a similar concern Crossbow (i wouldn't necessarily call it a fear per se, as that brings to mind visceral and strong emotions).    An occasional concern with whether or not i will live up to my potential and what i came here to accomplish.  Part of it is just typical, "ego", selfishness stuff, but part of it is also related to a concern with impacting the Whole in the most positive way i can, in order to be part of the solution rather than the stuckness.    Either way, i'm sure things will be fine whether or not i do live up to that potential and the goals my Disk set up for us for this life.  There is always others that have that potential.  (while I acknowledge that, for whatever reason I still feel something akin to a sense of urgency).   Every birth is a chance, a possibility for the ultimate purpose of life to fulfill itself within a person and individuality, like it did an age ago.  Yet, sometimes I wonder why it's been so, so rare within a physical lifetime.

Yes, I live with that sense of urgency too. Its torturous at times, and rewarding at other times. It provides drive.

I don't consider the accepted physical/emotional sensations of fear as being fear. To me they are just the sensations of the hormones of physical strength and action. Real fear as I know it is in my soul, not felt physically or emotionally as is the course hormonal cortisol and adrenal fear most are familiar with, but felt deeply and subtly on the soul level. Its a fear of letting others and myself down, on a soul and work level, where all the jobs are to do - in our relationships, sorting out the knots, our duties, our learning, our right loving and helping.

But like you say Justin, there is a certain amount of false pride and ego mixed in with it, because in the big scheme of things our little failings don't matter much. They are quite trivial really. The world goes on. People learn and grow. 

Your last wondering is an interesting one. I can see what I expect is a small part of the reason why, but its a job to write about. And there are so many variables. 

My number one fear is simply the afterlife not existing. It's is a completely logical widely accepted conclusion that the body is directly related to thoughts and proving that the body and mind are separate has not been scientifically accomplished, thus, the afterlife has not been scientifically proven to exist.

Therefore, theoretically, it is likely that death is the end of your existence.

yes exactly Focus, there r a lot of ifs and buts, and maybe and "oh" moments when u sit down to think of the nitty gritty of mind and body, and simple questions like...umm...if mind is independent of brain, then wats the justification of anti depressants working, when all they do is balance the chemical equation in the brain...and that alters our mood...so there is something going on there...

u hit the nail right on the head focus my friend. :-/

seeking, I am not trying to say I need every little nuance and tidbit in regard to the afterlife explained, far from it...

I am simply stating that a "faith" based belief in the afterlife based on data and evidence which are insufficient to prove nothing... except humanities willingness to accept all sorts of unproven things.

Let us say for instance, you are able to close your eyes and enter different focus levels and speak with beings and "guides" as is being claimed. The simple bottom line REQUIREMENT of accepting such wild claims as FACT is simple verification. I mean, this could just as easily be all imagination. It's so simple really, if these beings and guides cannot give or produce a way to verify they're existence with testing, such as getting information they did not have naturally ( such as spiritual mediums. ) OR being able to read a word, sentence, or number which is in a different room and for testing purposes the guides "tell" you the information....

Without a test performed adequately and completely like this, I can naturally reiterate my main claim and theory which is that the entire concept is imaginary. Does this make me happy? No. I WANT the afterlife to be science fact, not science fiction. But until I see results and real tests, it's all just delusional imagination... Therefore justifying a general fear of the afterlife even though the obvious fact remains that once you are dead it won't bother you.  ;)

EDIT: I quoted TWO possible tests. The first one which involves getting information the person being tested does not know is a questionable test in general. In fact, the second test involving a controlled word, number, or sentence structure is the only test that could be scientifically accepted.

seeking_answers wrote on Oct 31^st, 2011 at 12:16pm:

Thats a good point Beau, i guess that "it" moment would be like tht choking game kids play, well i played it once in highschool...i know u lost a close one to that wretched game tho :(

Beau, thats called Samadhi in hindi, thats when a person sometimes goes into a silent place, and meditates till his spirit leaves his body, or he "hibernates" in an enclosed area, the same way. Many Yogis and gurus in india have done that, i wonder if they OBE till a point that their silver cord severs. :-/

Oh yeah the silver cord connecting oneself to ones body when you go OBE. Some pro-afterlifers don't think that cord even exists, but I can't quote where I read that from. I have read so much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=IeNDkxnz2V0

I love Dave Allen so much, Crossbow. Thanks for posting it, man.

I did a retrieval on Jeremy and he was really great just sitting on a rock with his father behind him. His father had passed from a car accident when Jeremy was just 3 years old. I got a great feeling from it. I don't do many retrievals but that experience gave me a real respect for them. I don't do them because I feel if you are trapped you are learning something that only the experience can teach you, but I suppose if I was trapped I'd like to be retrieved  ;)

The silver cord is an illusion. We are not actually in our bodies so there is no need to have an actual attachment to them via the cord. Tom Campbell supports this view as well. Not that his world is the be all and end all, but since we talk about him a lot here I thought I'd mention him.

Love this thread. Thanks for the info on choking. Much appreciated, Seek.

Ur welcome Beau :). As usual, seeking answers. ;D

seeking_answers wrote on Oct 31^st, 2011 at 9:57am:

I get the broad idea, none of u fear death as such, but is there an aspect of death that yet scares u? :( Please share

I'm not scared of death itself, but am only scared of not having contact with or being with the people I love.  The only thing that matters to me in this life is being with the ones I love and want to always keep close to me.  I'm scared of being alone, left abandoned and even am afraid that my fear of that could cause me to be stuck somewhere, unaware for a while of how to help myself destroy that blockage of belief.  That's why here in this life I try to do everything I can to be my true self, be completely honest, and always work on the real work of myself that needs to be done.  I see so many people who hide, who don't dig deep and be real and honest with themselves out of fear, acting as if ignoring things make it not true or real.  But that's not the truth.  What's in your heart is the real truth, even if it conflicts with other things in life.  You just can't hide from the truth about yourself. 

So to combat my fears of death, I spend time here while alive imagining what I want to have and feel in the afterlife, and I imbue it with my thoughts and feelings and emotions about my true feelings about myself and those I love and the things I hold most dear to me.  I guess it's my way of creating what I want to have in the future.  The truth is, I don't really know what will happen when I die.  I just keep trying to hold onto what means the most to me though.

Thanks for listening to my little insecure ramble!

Vicky

Seek and ye shall find. And once you can stop seeking for awhile its time to put that new knowledge into practice eh?

Indeed.:-)

Yes!  It takes strength and PUL, and it means to stop living from the lower perspective of fear, that's for sure.

Have you ever actually tried to replace fear with love? It is not as easy as it sounds.  Bruce makes it sound like a weapon that you keep in your bag, and you can pull it out and use it against the dark forces.  I have not found it that simple. I agree that fear and love cannot co-exist, but I am not certain how to make PUL replace fear.

Well men, let me be completely honest and share a woman's perspective of fear.  What I do is pathetic but eventually it works.  Not the prettiest method, but I'm not perfect!  I am such an emotional and sensitive person that when I deal with my fear and emotions I have to really delve deep into feeling what I feel.  I end up crying deeply, suffering deeply, and I lose all my energy this way.  Then before it feels like I want and will just die from pain, I finally find a way to stay alive.  The only way I know to do that is through feeling love.  It doesn't change my circumstances, it doesn't magically make my problems go away.  But it's the only thing left to do at this miserable point, so I feel love and let it build.  I think of the opposite of my fear, think of what I want to have instead of what I fear, and let the feeling of love build and grow until I'm experiencing actually feeling the feeling of PUL.  And it feels powerful!  Probably more so because I had to rise up from the depths of misery and the stark difference feels so good to feel. 

It's the same concept as what Bruce teaches, but he's a guy, an engineer.  Like I said, my method isn't pretty but when you have to put up with emotions it's just what you have to put up with.  As far as replacing fear, I can't say I can do that permanently, but I can do it in the moment.  And when it comes to every-day life problems and real-life deep pain, I just do what I can in the moment of sitting quiet, after suffering, then try to allow the feeling of love back inside me, try to let it grow.  It's like tricking yourself.  You know the pain and problems of life and of the heart still exist.  But if you can allow yourself to feel love, and I mean really feel it, then you can at least for the moment turn your focus of awareness toward that energy state at the moment, even though you know that the energy state of fear still exists.  But the point is, it can only affect you if you put your focus there.  As long as you can focus away, onto love, the fear isn't affecting you at the moment.  It does feel like the same thing as it not being there anymore.  So the only permanent result you can achieve is if you can constantly achieve feeling love.  So far I can't.  My life's issues can swallow me up sometimes and the fear, pain, and sadness hits me.  But so far the process has worked to help get me back to feeling love.

I know I'm speaking in everyday life terms here.  I have not yet had (thank goodness) any nonphysical experience against dark forces in which I have needed to use PUL as a weapon. 

:)

Vicky

This is a great thread. I experience major depression more often than I do higher love and that may be why I seem to get defensive sometimes to Justin and Albert, but I have found that reading Still The Mind by Alan Watts knocks the living fear right out me. I highly recommend him. I know there are others who might disagree but say La vie. Try it. I don't think you'll be sorry.

I saw part of a documentary yesterday where a couple of guys met a new ager and he talked about his views of fear and made some good points about it. The thumb and pointy finger touching he used as a mental and physical reminder to let fear pass through him. Neat mental picture and sounding but it doesn't examine or increase understanding about fear or what is feared to be able to deal with it permanently.

What ultimately made me leave new age religion and alien inspired material ten years ago was what I felt was the near total refusal to examine and talk about the dark side, one's personal and the general nature. Important issues weren't dealt with. Seeing another documentary today about how work define the lives of some people, a lawyer couple talked about their experiences. Good hearted and really hard working couple. The firms partners, like alligators skimming the waters in broad daylight, talking very coldly about how their employees should sacrifice themselves for work. The partners of course are at the top of that pyramid.

Use me, abuse me - it's what I commonly see with people having functioning heart chakras. During my light and bright years I thoroughly feared the dark and fear itself.

Speaking metaphorically of course, When you make peace with both your angels and your demons you will be at peace, I feel.

Beau:

Since you brought up Alan Watts, just kidding. :D


Beau wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2011 at 2:30pm:

This is a great thread. I experience major depression more often than I do higher love and that may be why I seem to get defensive sometimes to Justin and Albert, but I have found that reading Still The Mind by Alan Watts knocks the living fear right out me. I highly recommend him. I know there are others who might disagree but say La vie. Try it. I don't think you'll be sorry.

Sorry Albert, even though its a joke I don't quite follow with that.

I was jokingly starting to do what you get defensive about.



Beau wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2011 at 5:28pm:

Sorry Albert, even though its a joke I don't quite follow with that.

Ah, yeah. I can see that. I do have some imperfections to rein in.  ;)

People are mis-educated about fear, more so today than in the past. From childhood, people are brainwashed into believing they are scared when they are not, they are just having physical sensations. Nearly all people who think they are feeling fear are not; they are feeling the sensations of adrenalin and cortisol in their bodies which are released when a potential threat is perceived. That does not mean they are scared, anxious or fearful, it just means the body is working as it should. We are taught that these hormones are fear hormones, and that their sensations should be distressing to us; in fact they are strength hormones and when we thoroughly realise that, then their sensations are comforting to us and provide us with a great sense of personal energy, confidence and calmness.

It is wrong education and mass brainwashing that makes us believe we are weak and fearful, rather than strong and ready, and it is perpetuated by the overall victim industry, including the current victim laden ideology ingrained in psychology and sociology, legal defence, compensation industry, the whole education system, parenting education programs, the feminist movement, and many other sub-movements and industries which teach false fear and gain from it. The end result is a semi-neurotic society. Some individuals are so convinced they have anxieties and phobias that they spend their lives within narrow limitations, when what they really have are the sensations of strength hormones and a physical body working as it should. These people are victims of the victim industry's false education.

True fear is not felt physically. It is very subtle and felt in the soul, deep within behind the physical fear. True fear usually runs contrary to physical fear; and its prompting upon us is in a different direction. If we follow the course promptings of the physical fear, we are likely to later realise - in a quiet time when our soul's will is discernible to us - that we would now be more satisfied with our self if we had acted differently and not followed the promptings of the course physical so called "fear" but had instead listened to and followed the higher and more subtle promptings of our soul. The physical so-called "fear" is in fact the strength provided to us to do what our soul would do. This is the meaning of the biblical phrase "fear God" and "be a God fearing man". It means listen to the true fear, the fear of disappointing our soul, and realise the sensation of physical "fear" is in fact the energy of strength to do whatever our soul expects of us. Physical fear must be converted though, like through a catalytic converter, from what we perceive as fear, to strength. It is converted by realisation of what it really is - strength, and then through usage and practice.       

Vicky does it, and described it well:

"... I think of the opposite of my fear, think of what I want to have instead of what I fear, and let the feeling of love build and grow until I'm experiencing actually feeling the feeling of PUL.  And it feels powerful!"


(PUL - pure unconditional love)

I totally concur with your Crossbow. Excellent post. I would just like to say that Pure Unconditional Love is a little redundant (Sorry Bruce) Pure Love is unconditional by definition. When we put in "unconditional" it sounds a little pretentious to me. Is it just me? :D

You are certainly correct Beau, love is pure and unconditional, but people generally do not realise that. Instead, they think love is an emotion of preferential affections. And so they must be informed that true love is pure and unconditional. The distinction needs to be made between emotional preferential love and heartfelt true love. So the term Pure Unconditional Love is not yet redundant, for it is educational and explanatory to those who are yet to distinguish true love from conditional love. But personally I prefer to see the term Pure Unconditional Love written in full, rather than as the acronym PUL, so that the occasional or chance reader who comes across the term knows what is being referred to. To such a reader, the acronym PUL means nothing, and a chance to educate about true love is missed.

There are the true powers of the soul, and their reflected emotions, like the sun reflects in water. One is true and of the soul, the other is its reflection in the emotional layer. All the emotions have their true soul power of which they are reflections. In this thread we have looked at the two fears and the two loves; one fear and love being true and of the soul, the other fear and love being reflected and of the emotions and body. Those who do not know their soul's powers but only know the emotional reflections of those powers, require a distinction to be made between the two before they can perceive the truer soul powers of which emotions are just a reflection.      

I actually like the term "Pull" because its active and if you think about it that is the mission of PUL. I wrote a song about it called This Is There. I'll post it if you like. It's about the afterlife...but really its about The Life.

Crossbow,
I am with you as far as your description of the physical symptoms of "fight or flight" being the emotional manifestation of fear. I am also with you in your distinction that physical anxiety/fear/panic can also be viewed as strengths.  However you lose me in the fine distinction of soul-fear. Either I have not experienced this higher fear (unlikely I guess), or I am simply too tied to the C1 to recognize it.  Vicky's method of replacing fear with love is probably the only way to do it, given that once the adrenalin et al get flowing, they sort of have to run their course physically before you can "overcome" them.

Hi

Beau says "Pure Love is unconditional by definition. When we put in "unconditional" it sounds a little pretentious to me. Is it just me? "
I rarely disagree with you, Beau, but sometimes a few extra syllables are needed to give stronger feeling to a name.

Pure love could be offered by a mother bird feeding her babies or by a teen in her first relationship. But pure unconditional love, now that has risen up with some force!

Bets
not known here as ElizabetsAnn,  and that's the way I like it  ;)

Many thanks to Crossbow! That information is a major milestone in my life!

crossbow,

Fear is never a prompting of the soul, but caution can be for sure. Very different.

A person brainwashed by 'or else you'll burn in hell', who fears god and has given him all her power likes the slave she was encouraged to be, is chained by her own fear and not by the threads hanging down from beard in the sky. The fear is kept alive within by her, and she can untie the knot, first step being to recognize that she actually has the power to do so.

Pure unconditional love is a state of being that you are IN when you are experiencing it.  Like being in love is a state of being.  How you experience it, interpret it, or react to it is your emotional response.  But the actual feeling is an energy state of being.  You can achieve any energy state of being through experiencing your emotions.  Feeling the state of pure unconditional love affects a person in such way as to alter their energy state to this pure feeling of love, and while in this energy state you cannot feel anything else but that state of being.  You can think about or remember other things, but the only energy state you're actually experiencing is the energy state of pure unconditional love. Once your state of being alters to some other energy state, you are no longer IN the state of PUL. 

If you want to see your own experience of distinguishing between an energy-state feeling and an emotion, then try altering your energy from whatever state you're currently experiencing to one of the feeling of love.  Then while there, focus on the thoughts, feelings, emotions, issues, worries, and fears that exist in your life that caused you to be in the energy-state you were previously in, such as fear.  You'll see that what you feel doesn't change, because while IN PUL you're only feeling that state.  You'll instead see that the way you view your thoughts, feelings, emotions, worries, and fears allows you to see from a higher perspective, gives you hope or new ideas, and allows you to feel and experience other emotions and thoughts that were clouded out while in a lower energy state.  Then your interpretations and reactions and how you move forward from this state of being are different from what they would be from a lower energy state such as fear.

Vicky,

You and two other beings share being in what you all label as pure unconditional love. After a while the white hat of the third is dropped and the succubistic nature is revealed - the hungry chef and the food so to speak. You and the other aren't fearing that and are still IN. What would you, being in there, do, if anything? Would the group dynamic change for you personally as a result of the revelation?

Your dog enters the scene. The succubi sees this as an energetic dessert and goes to town using red & green light sheated in black. The sound of yelps from your friend, and the other being, still IN, hums let it be. What do you think you'd feel?

Hey Betson,

I would just say that to me there is LOVE. When you complicate it it gets confusing. Love on its face is unconditional. You can make it complicated sure, but I don't see the point is all.

Volu wrote on Nov 4^th, 2011 at 3:39pm:

Vicky, You and two other beings share being in what you all label as pure unconditional love. After a while the white hat of the third is dropped and the succubistic nature is revealed - the hungry chef and the food so to speak. You and the other aren't fearing that and are still IN. What would you, being in there, do, if anything? Would the group dynamic change for you personally as a result of the revelation? Your dog enters the scene. The succubi sees this as an energetic dessert and goes to town using red & green light sheated in black. The sound of yelps from your friend, and the other being, still IN, hums let it be. What do you think you'd feel?

As usual, I'm confused.  But I'll try.  First of all, is this a creature that has purported to fool me?  And now it's eating my dog?  And you're wondering what I would do?

Obviously it seems to me that such an incident would jar me from the energy state I'm in and cause me panic, fear, and disgust.  If it were a real life situation, I'd probably run, since it seems my dog is already devoured by now.  And if it were a dream or some other nonphysical experience where I realize that I can remain in fear or try to change the scene, I hope I would try to change the scene, as I would realize that my dog isn't literally physically getting eaten alive, and I'd realize that what I'm experiencing can only be changed by waking up, ignoring it, or using the power of my own consciousness to alter my experience.  For instance in a bad dream, or stuck in some repeated nasty nonphysical realm experience for whatever reason, it might take me a while, or I might get there quickly, but I would use all my might to fight against this creature using the power of my energy to lift me out of compelling fear to a more powerful state where I can make a difference, ask for help, or otherwise get away in any way I can.  If that were the case, then this nasty beast would be revealed for what it truly is, some manifestation of a fear in my belief system.  But to remain there in fear and disgust, no I don't think I'd choose that for long.  Nor do I think I would stand there humming let it be. 

Vicky,

"And you're wondering what I would do?"

Funny, nothing personal regarding the dog. Yes, I do wonder about the unconditional part, so thanks for participating in the one episode non-reality show and explaining your views.

I guess all I can say to describe the feeling, in my experience, is that as a human I've experienced it for brief moments both in the physical world and in nonphysical experiences, but I can't say that I'm an expert or advanced being who knows how to sustain the state for any length of time to where I can apply its use for any conscious purpose.  I feel lucky just to have experienced this energy state at all. 

As far as the word unconditional and how it applies to the definition of PUL, I guess I'd say that it means to be completely selfless as opposed to having any self-serving motive, thought, feeling, or intention.  Maybe non-judgement applies too to this term.  It's just a pure state of feeling.   I guess I can't explain my experience of it good enough to make someone know what it feels like, but can only come close.  It's another one of those things a person just has to have their own experience with in order to know the true nature of it. 

One of my personal experiences in the physical is when I had a visit in the hospital after surgery.  I was afraid of dying and had prayed that I just wanted to know if I was going to die or not.  A man came and specifically told me that I wasn't going to die.  At the time I didn't even equate it to my prayer, but a couple days after the surgery he appeared in my hospital room.  He came to remind me of my prayer, and pointed out that he had answered it, and told me that it was his job to answer it for me.  It dawned on me then, and the whole experience itself was pretty amazing.  Not only did he indeed know of my prayer and request and answered it, but he also appeared out of thin air to come back and remind me of it.  But the thing that amzed me the most was the energy coming off of him and I would call that pure unconditional love.  You could say it was his aura, his energy.  It literally radiated off of him and I was surrounded by the presence of it, like you could feel the weight of it.  In that state the only thing I could think or feel was the pure feeling of love and kindness coming from him that he was giving me.  I had a hundred questions to ask but couldn't form a single one.  I was too much in awe by this feeling.  I wanted to stay in that state forever.  I could have died and it wouldn't have mattered because that feeling was like a drug, it's all I wanted to feel.  And when he was gone, the feeling of that state was gone, but I could remember it.  So that's what I mean when I try to describe it.  When you're in the state of experiencing it, it's there, like a light being on.  When you're not in it, it's like a light being turned off.  You can remember it but you can only experience being "on" when it's on. 

  It's not that important Vicky, but do you remember what this man looked like?  If you do, details would be interesting to hear about. 

  P.S., i really enjoyed reading your posts on this thread, as there is so much honesty, self/other acceptance, simplicity, and humility in them--not to mention some really good points made. 

  Sometimes, you're one of my role models in a sense. 

Well thank you very much, Justin.  That was a genuinely sweet compliment and means a lot.   I appreciate it.   :)

Yes I remember him as well as I can, but wish it was more clear.  It's like remembering a dream though, never as clear the moment you wake up.  He wasn't tall, had a little hispanic look to him, light coloring, short hair with a little curl, looked like he was maybe 25 but no more than 30, small build.  His clothes were just very plain and normal.  No hospital attire or name badge, although I can't remember what he wore.  I remember his name was Luis.  He wasn't attractive per se and in fact wasn't terribly smiling or joyful in appearance, but it was his demeanor that was so peaceful and loving and warm.  It really drew me in.  The feeling he gave me made me feel he was so close to me like I knew him.  I felt like I looked up to him even though he looked so young.  I remember in one of our meetings before my surgery that I wished he was a little more personable, like smiling or laughing or being more at my level.  He just seemed so serious all of the time, so strong and on task, whereas I'm the type who needs some joking and laughing in order to feel more at ease, know what I mean?  But even so, he always felt so warm and caring.  In fact, it was hard for me to accept him at first because I didn't know him and wondered why this stranger was being so kind and caring.  I'm glad he was so persistent!

The inadequacy is in my words, Bardo. 

Perhaps an example may assist:             (Please excuse the long post. I hope it assists someone.)

Two fears:
A man is travelling in a late night train carriage, there is another man sitting further down the carriage. Two thugs enter and accost the other man, standing over him and demanding money, then for fun they bash him and leave him broken and bleeding on the floor. The first man, who is witnessing the attack upon his fellow traveller, is gripped by what he thinks is fear; his throat is tight, his stomach churns, his larger muscle twitch and his smaller muscles shake. He does not recognise his strength for what it is, and misinterprets it as fear and inadequacy. He shrinks into his seat and hopes not to be noticed by the thugs, lest he is next to be bashed. at the next stop he hurries from the train and catches a taxi home. Some days later, when his emotions are quiet, when his mind is at rest, he feels what is his soul moving within him, and realisation dawns. He realises he could have helped his fellow man, could have saved him from the bashing, could have used his briefcase, umbrella, his own hands and fists and voice to fight the thugs and help his fellow man; and even helped the thugs by showing them truer courage than what they only know, and could have shown them mercy too, shown them that the trait that they admire most - strength - can be a trait of good men too. He feels regret and shame. And then in many months time, again he rides upon the late night train. Again some thugs attack a fellow passenger. He feels the same "fear" that he felt last time; but at the same time and in the background of his being, he feels another fear, that he did not feel the last time. One fear is the fear of his earthly health and life, the other is the fear of disappointing his soul. One is loud and one is quiet. One is course and one is fine. One is temporary and one is lasting. This time he makes a different choice. He follows the promptings of his soul, his earthly fear is changed to strength, for strength is what it really is, and he steps up with clear head and strong heart and saves his fellow man, although he fights hard, he is fair and merciful and does no more harm than necessary, he demonstrates to thugs that goodness can be strong and that mercy is not weak. Although he beats off the thugs he treats them and the other man like they were all his brothers. And men see strength, goodness, courage and fairness that they have never seen before. And all have grown, even if only a little bit.      

Two types of emotions:
There are the emotions we are familiar with, and these are course, weak although they seem strong, temporary, loud, swing horizontally between opposing pairs, and they are of the earth life. They are felt in the emotional/astral/second body and are not felt by the soul after the emotional body is shed.

And there are "soul powers" (what might at first feel like "emotions" of soul, but they are powers, not emotions), and these are fine, strong though at first seem weak, permanent, quiet, flow down vertically and then outward (love/PUL), and are an ability/power of soul, regardless of what bodies the soul may or may not have on.

Emotions are paired in opposites, to teach the soul:
Each of the soul abilities/powers are dormant, until their associated earthlife emotion is experienced along with its tied and consequential opposite emotion, and from the swinging and attrition between the pairs of opposing emotions, grows a soul realisation of its own powers that are associated with each pair of emotions. It is like a pendulum, between the two and up at a right-angle, like up the string of the pendulum to the point from which it swings. The swinging between the emotions irritates and awakens the place in soul from which it swings. Then the swing ceases and the soul power ("soul emotion") flows down and out, like down the stationary string of the pendulum. This is how emotions wake up the soul powers. Monroe spoke of this, though in a different way.   

Exercising intelligence - perception/recognition:
The ability to differentiate/distinguish to finer and finer degrees, and the exercising of this ability, is one of the most useful skills to develop for all manner of occult work, be it phasing, tuning, leaving the body, and comprehension of the subtle things of life, and the subtle worlds and their subject matters. For differentiating/discriminating is the fine tuning of the awareness, and it enables the awareness to grasp the finest subjects, and penetrate the finer worlds and their workings. We should exercise this ability, make it finer and finer, on all matters.

And also practice the opposite exercise - that of widening the scope of awareness; taking in the biggest picture.

And then between the ability to expand/widen the awareness and the ability to finely discern, is the noticing of individualities and generalities, patterns, associations, sequences, distinctions and similarities.

This is the exercising and developing of the base intelligence of consciousness, what is underneath and distinct from our education, knowledge, culture.

Vicky,

Do you know what the selfless group's last words were? We're no more!

I feel I know one of the particular experiences you talk about but reluctant to label anything unconditional and don't see the reason why. But at least surprised how something so calm can be so overwhelming. Progress is self-serving, some times, not all the time.

If you, whoever you are, the reader, reading this, would like to make progress for me while I'm surfing the net and having a snack, please let me know, for your own good, of course. And leave you at the door, the progress is for ME!

Hey Bets, I'm not sure but are you saying that I am discrediting PUL? I think PUL is a wonderful idea, but I just don't see any real love other than that. So why not just call it love. Like John Lennon wrote. Love is Real. If the love is real its PUL. There is no other. To have a duality of love means something I just can't wrap my head around.

crossbow,

Light and dark:
The early morning rain left tiny drops of water on her face. A first timer out of the nest, being on her own, restless feet walking around the block, without really knowing why. Maybe it was the fresh air that helped clear the lingering thoughts. Maybe it was about just doing something else for a change, leaving the doubts to dry in the back of the mind.
     A man approached her asking for a lighter. "Could he be the spiritual knight in shining armour", she thought while passing the fire that was going to light up his cigarette like a torch in the dark, yet it wasn't dark, but actually turning out be a bright and sunny day. "Please, sweep me off my feet, and let me float above the ground, mesmerized by your surprise party for my soul."
     "No, I'm not the one you're looking for", he said and continued to whisper to the reader, "don't worry, there's no impending doom to be found between us. We're not headed for a fall". Her raised eyebrows hinted at the confusion, but eventually processed what he said to her.
     Meanwhile at a lawn nearby the two people having a conversation, an ant struggled with a piece of grass, carrying it home for his queen. Somewhat whipped doesn't even begin to explain his story. He whistled a tune, oblivious to the snake following him. She had caught the grass moving around in the corner of her eye. She once got a glimpse of her eye in in a piece of broken glass, and thought looked a lot like the eye in lord of the rings. But anyway, movie snake buffs aside, the snake following the ant didn't know there was a crow eyeing them both. The crow scratched it's feathers and then went for a fly. A feather fell down to the ground, and it'd be cool if it was used to write this story, but this keyboard will do just fine.
     "There's this story being passed on. It's about an indian talking with his grandchild", and the man paused, maybe to be artsy fartsy. "In all people there are two wolves fighting. One is evil - anger, fear, envy, jealousy, greed, arrogance, self-pity, lie and selfishness. The other one is good - joy, peace, love, hope, calm, humility, eager, empathy, truth and trust. Which wolf wins, the child asked, and the grandfather said, the one you feed".
     "That's a kind of true but also a simplification that ends up eating it's own tail, old man, looping around the cigarette addiction!", she burst out, laughing.
     "I know, balance is a stranger to this world", he said, "but you're wrong, I'm not addicted to cigarettes anymore. That was your assumption. I haven't used the lighter yet, and now I'm handing it back, as I didn't really need it".
     "I'm gonna go get some groceries for the weekend", the writer chimed in, and basically, they all prospered and progressed towards the ever changing glimpse of perfection.

:o

Volu wrote on Nov 5^th, 2011 at 8:06am:

crossbow, Light and dark: The early morning rain left tiny drops of water on her face. A first timer out of the nest, being on her own, restless feet walking around the block, without really knowing why. Maybe it was the fresh air that helped clear the lingering thoughts. Maybe it was about just doing something else for a change, leaving the doubts to dry in the back of the mind.      A man approached her asking for a lighter. "Could he be the spiritual knight in shining armour", she thought while passing the fire that was going to light up his cigarette like a torch in the dark, yet it wasn't dark, but actually turning out be a bright and sunny day. "Please, sweep me off my feet, and let me float above the ground, mesmerized by your surprise party for my soul."      "No, I'm not the one you're looking for", he said and continued to whisper to the reader, "don't worry, there's no impending doom to be found between us. We're not headed for a fall". Her raised eyebrows hinted at the confusion, but eventually processed what he said to her.      Meanwhile at a lawn nearby the two people having a conversation, an ant struggled with a piece of grass, carrying it home for his queen. Somewhat whipped doesn't even begin to explain his story. He whistled a tune, oblivious to the snake following him. She had caught the grass moving around in the corner of her eye. She once got a glimpse of her eye in in a piece of broken glass, and thought looked a lot like the eye in lord of the rings. But anyway, movie snake buffs aside, the snake following the ant didn't know there was a crow eyeing them both. The crow scratched it's feathers and then went for a fly. A feather fell down to the ground, and it'd be cool if it was used to write this story, but this keyboard will do just fine.      "There's this story being passed on. It's about an indian talking with his grandchild", and the man paused, maybe to be artsy fartsy. "In all people there are two wolves fighting. One is evil - anger, fear, envy, jealousy, greed, arrogance, self-pity, lie and selfishness. The other one is good - joy, peace, love, hope, calm, humility, eager, empathy, truth and trust. Which wolf wins, the child asked, and the grandfather said, the one you feed".      "That's a kind of true but also a simplification that ends up eating it's own tail, old man, looping around the cigarette addiction!", she burst out, laughing.      "I know, balance is a stranger to this world", he said, "but you're wrong, I'm not addicted to cigarettes anymore. That was your assumption. I haven't used the lighter yet, and now I'm handing it back, as I didn't really need it".      "I'm gonna go get some groceries for the weekend", the writer chimed in, and basically, they all prospered and progressed towards the ever changing glimpse of perfection.

hmm ... vewy interwesting ... I might print it off and stick it on the wall.

I am scared right now. I have roughly 5 panic attacks per month from fear, not of death, but of my firm belief that death is the end of consciousness, existence, and me.

The Monroe Institute, Bruce Moen, The Lawyer presenting the case for the afterlife, spiritual mediums ( I have tested 3 )

All kooks. They themselves are simply using imagination and or are delusional. I am facing the reality, the facts, using the science.

I am scared.

I am afraid.

My heart pounds. I pace around the apartment. I will die. I will end. I will cease to be.

Welcome to my world.

I doubt that very much focus27. You are eternal. Listen to the Raydio sometime. I mean really listen to what those songs are saying. Pretend if you have to, that they are singing directly to you and that you are the everything. You'll get it, I promise. It's so easy to fall in love with yourself and once you accomplish that the rest is gravy baby.

Listen carefully to this first one. At first listen you think he;s saying "I can't hear it"...but listen VERY closely  and you'll realize he's saying "I CAN Hear it". It's very subtle. Music has its own consciousness. It is the angels trying to reach you every moment of every day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpJOR9ew9f4

This one is easier. The title itself says it all but it may be the most beautiful song ever written if you can get into it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvImD7oUoi0

I like this one because it describes me to a tee. I do this every day and I was so happy when I found someone who also did it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izLt1fbU1cE&feature=fvwrel

These songs won't make you enlightened, but enlightenment is neither good or bad, it just is. Don't judge yourself too harshly ever. You are the Everything and so are the rest of us. The best thing is to listen to the radio everyday on your favorite station unless its very negative music...that stuff is good too, but its very hard to gain from it until you're used to the concept of "listening" with your heart.

Good luck and feel free to PM me if you need some other songs or you just want to chat it up about this stuff. But if you have made up your mind that you are not eternal I hate to disappoint but that ain't it kid, that ain't it. Good luck.

Focus27,
"Welcome to my world."

That's more like welcome to the world, and it isn't an exclusive fear just for you, it's what everybody deals with sooner or later. I've had times where just walking though the city felt like having a meltdown, but the social anxiety is a thing of the past now. Thing is though, I didn't blame the passers-by for my fear or expect them to fix it. The insitute isn't accountable for your fears. Neither is moen or the lawyer. And no 'but..' will change that.

Volu, I have been dealing with this for years now, with no end in sight.

No end in sight, that's good right? ;) My biggest fear, a non-physical one, has taken over 10 years to deal with. Haven't got the recipe for dealing with fears, but I suspect at least one of the ingredients is knowledge about that which we fear.

And maybe, just maybe, eradicating a fear competely in the span of one lifetime is like trying to eat an elephant. It could be that the steps forward seem so small, the fear is still there, but the progress will make it bearable, at least, and then the road further gets easier.

Focus27 wrote on Nov 6^th, 2011 at 5:23am:

I am scared right now ... of my firm belief that death is the end of consciousness, existence, and me.

Focus27,

What a great motivation you have to live in the here and now, to get busy with life, to do and achieve as much as you can.

Some people go through life in slow motion, wasting one opportunity after another, thinking they are passing time until they get to some fancy afterlife or heaven, or fantasising that they'll get around to doing more in their next lifetime.

But not you. You fear that you have only this one life, so you are motivated. Use your fear; that's what its there for. Live with it and love it. Convert it into energy that gets things done, makes things happen, and lives life to the full. 

If there were more people with your fear, less wasting time and more work and living might get done.   
 

RIGHT ON, Crossbow, I dig that totally.

Cross,

Im sure everyone here is highly self motivated for one reason or another. The point u made is excellent, but it doesnt help with allaying the fears. I share the same fears as Focus 27. Infact, not just my death, i cannot see anyone dying in front of me. And im the only kid of my parents.

I may nt fear death if it just came, but i cannot and do not wish to die on a bed pumped up with drugs and stuff, when im gasping for breath and morphine knocks me out before i suffocate...

the power of the brain is proven to me by the amount of negative thoughts i get on a per minute basis. And thats the biggest proof against the afterlife, i get NO help from my "higher self" or spirit guide watever u may call it.

Distressing indeed. im not a coward, im just more anxious than others. Sometimes i guess having a BELIEF, watever it may be, is better than seeking the truth. it makes u live easier.

Hi Seeking,

Re: being "pumped up" with drugs at that crucial time of life --
that may have been an accurate term at one time but now that doctors know about palliative care (for painfree living even up the time of death), they regulate painkillers so that the person thinks and communicates more clearly than when (s)he was without the painkillers. During that very crucial time of facing death, the patient can more clearly see the whole of his/her life.

From what I've seen so far approaching death slowly is no longer a time to fear.
Rather we are given access to a phase that includes developing and sharing new viewpoints on life.

My dad used to say it all stops when your biological reactions atop. Then a year after he died a woman came to me to say she had a message for me from "Good Natured Jack" which was my father's pet name for himself. She said he told her to tell me, "You were right about everything, Thomas." He had before he died read CONVERSATIONS WITH GOD, BOOK ONE at my urging, but had slammed it closed when he got to the part that ..."even Hitler went to heaven."

If you think, Focus, that there is nothing beyond, think again. I have no doubt whatsoever, and literally hundreds of instances of confirmation. It is not my task to lead you to belief. Go ahead and be dead right about it all....

Nothing scares me anymore. Life is but a dream, my friends.

Love and Light,
Thomas

8 months ago my girlfriend found our 15 month old son unconscious and not breathing in his cot.

I heard her scream, ran upstairs and immediately and started resuscitation while she phoned for an ambulance. I didn't stop until the paramedics arrived where they took over and were trying for over an hour.

After this we were taken to the hospital with our son and the worst was confirmed, he was gone.

That same night the police had to search our house for any evidence and I had to give a full statement to them the next day, also a post mortem examination had to be carried out on our son to try and find a cause of death.

Then we had to arrange his funeral and await the date for his inquest which has now been confirmed for December, also worth noting is that I have got to speak there as a witness.

My girlfriend was 15 weeks pregnant at the time too.

This event decimated what little belief that I had of an afterlife not to mention my will to live my life.

Then one night I had put a jacket on my sons folded up playpen, as I walked through a doorway (within a few milliseconds of time that the playpen was in my vision) the jacket was pulled off the playpen but nobody was there to do it. My son actually did this all of the time while he was here physically by the way, also my 2 cats witnessed this and it was hard to find who was more shocked out of the 3 of us, I've never seen them so freaked out before.

A couple of days later my girlfriend found one of his toys on the floor, no big deal though? Except that for this toy to get on the floor the toy on top of it in the box would have had to be on the floor also, it wasn't it was still in the box!

Then there's the brief movements just out of vision which me, my girlfriend, the cats and our dog have seen at the same time. I won't bother mentioning the L which was drawn in the middle of my big LCD T.V screen, my sons name began with L and there's no way anyone else did it.

There's so much more that has happened but I can't be bothered to post anymore.

The week of my sons death I had an interview for a decent well paid job, the type which can get me somewhere financially. I had to cancel it obviously but within a month I was able to go to the interview, I got the job and I'm still there. Not once have I thought about not going in due to feeling down.

My second son has now been born and is 10 weeks old, we're not finding it nearly as hard as it should be under the circumstances. He likes the photos of his brother so much so that they make him smile, the biggest smile he can achieve infact. He frowns at photos of anyone else so clearly he knows who his brother is, it's not rocket science is it?

But how does he know who he is?

The materialistic view cannot and will not give an explanation for this or the other things mentioned, well they will try but to be frank they will be wrong.

Feel free to call me a "kook" or delusional but remember one thing, people who throw stones shouldn't live in glass houses.

In other words I could say the same for you, there's no evidence to suggest that I am either of those things and the same goes for anyone else.

Also, I'm not the one who is scared to death of the inevitable  ::), no pun intended  ;).

P.S. Hallucination, delusion or belief does not explain how I've been able to get up, brush myself off and move forward at 100 mph. The materialist view is so pathetic and childish, I can't believe that anybody gets sucked in by it. It's not hard, just apply some true scepticism to it and it just falls apart under it's own weight of BS.

I have applied scepticism to my new found beliefs and the only conclusion which makes sense is the existence of the afterlife, coincidence doesn't cut the mustard as there's been that many that you would be delusional to think it is.

Admittedly this is just someone's story but nevertheless for this person it's worked wonders.

Andy

"Feel free to call me a "kook" or delusional but remember one thing, people who throw stones shouldn't live in glass houses."

I live in a house covered with planks, Andy. Throwing stones around and the lot bouncing back might be a paved road to kooky town. At least the planks signal I'm not a tree-hugger, there are none around and my preference is people anyways. ;)

"Admittedly this is just someone's story but nevertheless for this person it's worked wonders."

I like stories about challenges in all sizes being dealt with in an excellent manner, and yours is one of them.

Andy, very sorry for ur loss, but then i guess he came back in ur second kids form. :)

Yes thats what i said, if u can live with a belief, then its all good, coz u can sleep well at night. i guess those masters who train suicide bombers do a pretty decent job of brainwashing those guys, we should hire one to brain wash ppl in a positive manner.

PS- i am not glorifying terrorism, it was in a lighter vein.

Volu,

Thanks for your reply and appreciation of my story, it means a lot for people to read it and feel something from it.

Seeking,

My son has not come back as my other son, I can assure you of that. If he did I would know.

"Yes thats what i said, if u can live with a belief, then its all good, coz u can sleep well at night. i guess those masters who train suicide bombers do a pretty decent job of brainwashing those guys, we should hire one to brain wash ppl in a positive manner."

I'm not living with a "belief" they are facts for me, if I could prove this to you I would and anyone else for that matter but I just can't, then again why should I have to? You either believe it yourself or you don't. So for you, you would be living with a belief that I am being truthful.

It's funny you should mention brainwashing, materialism fits that description if ever I've seen it. Just like the suicide bombers who are caught up in a belief system so much that they would blow themselves to pieces for their "cause", they're gullible people and this is the extreme end of what happens when you allow someone else to dictate what's right and wrong to you, instead of finding out for yourself.

I don't have much time to explain it fully so I'll have to keep this brief. One good example is the fashion industry, it's not so bad anymore but it used to be all about skeletal models which aren't my cup of tea at all, but this was causing young girls to become anorexic as they believed that is what men found attractive as it's what they read in the latest issue of "how to look great". In reality most men don't find this attractive at all.

If they stopped reading the magazines then they wouldn't be in this position and would probably find something better to do, not to mention healthier.

Brainwashing is never positive as it's done to fit in with an agenda, normally greed or power.

Sorry if this does not make any sense, I'll try to explain better when I have more time.

Andy

Hi Andy,

Congratulations on your newborn!!

:)

Seeking Answers,

Why are you so shy of belief while saying you would rather know the truth?
Don't the founders of great religions say we must believe to know the truth?
   

i do believe, but the belief gets weak when scientific facts , even common questions hit against that belief. :-/

Every single scientific advance in history began with a question, an unknown. If you wait for science to catch up with truth, you will waste another lifetime. The greatest scientists in history truly BELIEVED in their theories. In some cases, they were vindicated in their beliefs, and in others not. Just because "science" has not "proven" to its own satisfacton, that the soul survives, does not mean that it doesn't.

Hi Vicki,

Thank you  :).

Seeking,

"i do believe, but the belief gets weak when scientific facts , even common questions hit against that belief."

You should post these scientific "facts" and common questions which hit against your beliefs, I don't know of any. As far as science is concerned they don't know whether the afterlife exists or not. In a be all and end all proof sense that is  :).

However, from what I can see the evidence for the afterlife existing far outweighs the evidence against it existing, this does not include my experiences of course although they are being looked into as they have been experienced by millions of people around the world  ::).

I have not experienced any of the below things by the way.

NDE's: Some scientists have said that it is the brain being starved of oxygen which causes them, however studies have been done which have shown nde experiencers to have higher than normal oxygen levels, kind of pees on their bonfire doesn't it? It was a feeble excuse anyway.

OBE's: I read a book by a well known pseudosceptic called Richard Wiseman. In this book he states that obe's are just peoples imagination. Straight away I can see that he is replacing one thing which he claims has no supporting evidence with something else which has no evidence either  ::).

Mediums: In his book he also attempts to debunk mediums, in one section he claims that it is all done be cold reading as he knows someone who does this but he doesn't name him  :-?. For all I know he could be making this up but even if he isn't, this doesn't mean that all mediums do this, if they do then why aren't they all serving time in prison for fraud?

There's also one medium called George Anderson and if you decide to take a reading with him then you have the option to give a false name, he insists on this infact. He also only accepts yes or no answers and rarely asks (if ever) to elaborate. Read some of his books they are quite interesting but as always keep an open mind.

There's more but I don't have much time, at least I can be bothered to post some of it  ;D.

Andy

Yeah, it can be a bit disappointing. There are few scientists in science. Most scientists are only a little less emotionally driven than the average member of their societies. And many are clearly devoid of an ability to think rationally. Presenting themselves as what they think is intellectual while swinging emotionally with the crowd is all many of them are good at.

A scientist is a level of mental attainment, being primarily an understanding of and proficiency at using the intelligence in conjunction with reality, and using that attainment to pursue truth (reality) by logical means. Sounds easy enough. But corruption creeps in where boundaries are ill defined. 

Unfortunately clear and strong foundations of scientific thinking are not part of our basic education system. If they were then our societies would not be susceptible to so much of the nonsensical and cunning propaganda that gets dispersed. Structural and qualitative definitions of awareness, consciousness, thought, choice, passive and active intelligence, reason, logic, analysis, creative intelligence, emotion, belief, knowledge, assumption, calculation, truth, falsity, etc, remain ill defined in shape and substance - their centres are roughly realised but their boundaries are fuzzy, not crisp. There is no hope of building a clear picture out of fuzzy pieces. And these pieces are the building blocks of what should be clear and rational thinking. If these and other essential pieces were clearly defined and correctly interlocked, and if our education system covered them, then thinking would be clear and rational. But they are not, and the average standard of rational thinking in the world is quite poor compared to what it could be. I expect it will pick up in the future though. Computers are rational, inflexible and evolving things and we will have to keep up with them. And they operate from a similar black and white intelligence base as does our human intelligence, so I expect we will learn about our own intelligence and how to think clearer from them.         

Greetings all.

   There are many fears in this physical world that we are all challenged with. Overcoming them is the key to gaining wisdom. No one wants fear and not everyone has to face it.

   As for me, I guess the top three I have left would be losing control of my mind, being imprisoned and physically tortured, or losing my sense of love for myself and others. So far I'm safe from any of those things happening to me while in this physical body. With God's help, I plan on keeping it that way.   :-)

Ralph

Seeking and Focus27,

Many people are undergoing a period of this fear in their life. I certainly have. I get the feeling that you are holding on very tightly to this fear. And it is in return holding on very tightly to your life, lessening your ability to enjoy it. My advice is to try and let go this fear, little by little, actively working on it. Only when you are not debilitated by this fear anymore can you start living and growing again, spiritually and otherwise. And if you are one of the people - also like me - who will be a little afflicted by the fear of death all our lives, then that is our lot (and maybe our task, who knows?). Do not let it totally smother you. Try concentrate on the positive and on love and joy. I can promise you it will help in time. Be patient. And do not be shy to get other help too.

To the others in this thread - reading this has reminded me how grateful I am that you are out there and so generously giving of your thoughts and experiences, endeavouring to help others.Just let me say Thank You again :)

It has been some time since I was here, but I have nit forgotten any of you and your help.

Chrwe

chrwe wrote on Nov 8^th, 2011 at 1:37am:

To the others in this thread - reading this has reminded me how grateful I am that you are out there and so generously giving of your thoughts and experiences, endeavouring to help others.Just let me say Thank You again :) It has been some time since I was here, but I have nit forgotten any of you and your help. Chrwe

Hello Chrwe, and allow me to compliment you on your refreshing perspective!  I remember when alot of your questions were along the same lines as Seeking's.  I am pleased to see that you found answers that allay at least some of your concerns regarding the afterlife...I think your clear analysis of your fear promoted a strong desire in alot of us to help you find your truths...at least it felt that way to me.

Once again, good to read you and so happy to see your cogent comments!

Scott

This post is directed at both myself, seeking and others that doubt the afterlife:

Of course we can think of numerous reasons why the afterlife doesn't exist.

#1 Thinking about reasons why it doesn't is not healthy. Especially in my state of mind.

#2 Researching possible facts about the afterlife actually existing is very healthy.

The bottom line:

We both need to have open minds and do research, not close our minds and panic.

Focus,


"#1 Thinking about reasons why it doesn't is not healthy. Especially in my state of mind."

I wouldn't say it's unhealthy to think of reasons why it doesn't, clearly it's not helping your state of mind. Some people don't want to believe that the afterlife is a possibility due to this being a belief that makes them happy. It's similar to having blind faith like some religious people, in my opinion of course. Could it be your state of mind making you think this way? If so I can imagine it being a vicious circle.

"#2 Researching possible facts about the afterlife actually existing is very healthy."

There's certainly nothing wrong with researching a subject. In order to come to a conclusion you have to look at both sides of the story.

"We both need to have open minds and do research, not close our minds and panic."

Absolutely, minds of which are not open tend to not function as they should, and panic is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard  ;).

Anyway, it's nice to see a more positive post from yourself Focus  :).

Andy

You know, the fact that I still do not know for sure is a big one for me and that I haven't been able to explore at all so I have no way of knowing for sure. The fact that so many people in my life are heavily religious isn't really helping, and their stories of what happens are often scary and depressing situations where I can't win either way. The possibility that either they're right or that there's nothing at all on the other side like my parents have believed are probably two big ones for me that I still haven't been able to overcome yet. Another one is being afraid of not achieving any of my goals in life, which often gets me down and not even wanting to try, although that's a conundrum in and of itself because if I were to let that stop me from beginning, then before i know it I'll be in my 80s and realize that I haven't done anything. The third one is that I sometimes get suicidal urges, possibly due to my asperger's syndrome and possibly genetic since other members of my family have had those occasionally, and that I might act on it and as result, get stuck in focus 23 and not move on to focus 27. Finally, I hope that when I'm old and decrepit people are still practicing retrievals regularly, because I have found that I'm almost never aware that I'm dreaming when I'm dreaming and have had difficulty inducing any kind of lucid dream and that worries me about possibly getting stuck in focus 23. I've had some dreams that were somewhat reassuring in the past while seeking guidance though, but other than that it's really hard to tell.

DavidLay,
"The third one is that I sometimes get suicidal urges, possibly due to my asperger's syndrome and possibly genetic since other members of my family have had those occasionally, and that I might act on it and as result, get stuck in focus 23 and not move on to focus 27."

I'm not even a smidgen religious, not really into the dude, but really liked his quote:

“If you are going through hell, keep going.” - Winston Churchill