Jurgen Ziewe is a master in the exploration of consciousness, especially when it comes to out of body travels to the afterlife dimensions.  If you are unfamiliar with his work, it will benefit you to become familiar with it.  It is educational and inspirational.  His website is Packed with information and his videos are as well.

http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Astral_Travel_and_life_after_death.html

Videos:

http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Testimony_of_life_after_death_videos.html

OutOfBodyDude,

Looks interesting from an out of body perspective.  If could do OBE or Lucid Dreaming at will I'd be teaching that.  I figure some folks can do it easily and some folks take years trying and can't.  I teach that crowd.

Hope other visitors here click your link.  Lots of good stuff.

Bruce

I think the human ability to consciously leave the body has a good chance of becoming a recognised science in the coming century - and possibly studied in depth the century after - but that's just my guessing. There are many variables and possibilities of course.

I expect the work and teachings that people like yourself Bruce are putting out there, may see its greatest benefit for people further into the future, because effort can take a while to return its rewards. I think it is quite possible that people in the future who can leave their body and explore their past lives will look back along the line of their own history and see their efforts at this time, prompted by yours' and other's teachings, as one of the many steps in their forward development. In other words, someone might work at leaving their body for their whole life and not be able to, and then be able to leave their body in a future life.         

PS. I didn't mean it to read like I'm suggesting there is little benefit now - for there is clearly much benefit now - only that by comparison I suspect a greater benefit will come about in the future.

I've read Multi-Dimensional mans book when it first came out. I believe his OBE experiences. Visiting or exploring the afterlife cannot be learned over several days by 'self-hypnosis' workshops or internal mind(conscious mind-imagination)methods.

These above flawed methods are what Frank Kepple called an F2 experience. In other words, self-mind generated internal imagery, completely personal to the person producing these images. Dream type images generated while hypnotized or asleep, or awake-imagination method images are just our minds internal personal world.

The latter is the same method book and script writers use to produce those wonderful works of fiction we see in movies or read in books. They exist as an internal 'reality' completely personal to the person generating them, and in no way involve other human sentient beings, astral or physical, in the sense of being real as in our shared physical interactive reality. The afterlife can be said to be a shared interactive astral reality also.      

Hello

How do you (or we) choose which to believe?  :)

Betson

Quote:

They exist as an internal 'reality' completely personal to the person generating them, and in no way involve other human sentient beings, astral or physical, in the sense of being real as in our shared physical interactive reality.

Lately I've come to understand that there really is no personal reality that is not in some way interconnected with the reality of every other conscious being in this consciousness system.  This is so because we are all of the same consciousness within the same system of reality.  The idea of us having our own personal realities in the way you describe is only seen to be true within a false belief system in which we are separate from one another.  Even a single thought you entertain for a split second affects the greater reality, for it sends off vibrations which change the very structure of reality.  The effect our "personal" reality has on the shared reality is far more apparent in higher dimensions where mind creations are manifested almost instantaneously, but it can be seen here in the physical too, for one's "personal" reality(one's mind content) has a direct effect on the way one interacts with the world around them.

Dude,
"The idea of us having our own personal realities in the way you describe is only seen to be true within a false belief system in which we are separate from one another."

Not really. Even just two people sitting in a waiting room can have wildly different outlooks on life, which essentially just is what it is. Kepple was right in that new explorers of the astral can get dragged down in fighting fears that comes to life in beyond hd quality, that seems like someone else, but are one's own fears doing the riverdance. A personal reality.

Volu

I agree with you.  What I was getting at is that one's personal reality isn't as personal as some believe it to be, as it has subtle effects upon the whole system even in the densest physical realm.  It seems some believe there are levels of reality in which one's consciousness and it's activity are of no consequence to the greater reality system it is a part of, calling it a strictly "personal/inner" reality, and this is what I believe to be false.  This has little to do with personal perspective or manifested thought forms.      

I say something because I feel it is a disservice to believe this, as it advocates the false idea of separation, which does little to further one's spiritual growth.

So how do you think his descriptions of his OBE travels interact with his work a a graphic artist, or vice versa?

What is ... real?   : )

Karmalars:

Here's a link about Frank Kepple. Perhaps he isn't the authority figure you seem to be suggesting he is.

http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1290101682




KarmaLars wrote on Oct 14^th, 2011 at 4:40pm:

I've read Multi-Dimensional mans book when it first came out. I believe his OBE experiences. Visiting or exploring the afterlife cannot be learned over several days by 'self-hypnosis' workshops or internal mind(conscious mind-imagination)methods. These above flawed methods are what Frank Kepple called an F2 experience. In other words, self-mind generated internal imagery, completely personal to the person producing these images. Dream type images generated while hypnotized or asleep, or awake-imagination method images are just our minds internal personal world. The latter is the same method book and script writers use to produce those wonderful works of fiction we see in movies or read in books. They exist as an internal 'reality' completely personal to the person generating them, and in no way involve other human sentient beings, astral or physical, in the sense of being real as in our shared physical interactive reality. The afterlife can be said to be a shared interactive astral reality also.

Related to some of the things Dude said:

We are one and many at the same time. Some people become so involved with trying to be aware of the oneness that they try to deny their individuality. This is a big mistake. The trick is to find that we can be aware of our uniqueness and the oneness at the same time.

We connect to the oneness at our heart-level, not at  a mind-level that tries to deny our individuality.

Do you remember Bruce Moen's description of the telepathic beings he met? (He speaks about them in his 3rd and 4th books.) It wasn't until they became aware of PUL that they were able to recognize that despite their united state of mind, each member was also unique.

In order to substantially share love and oneness with  another, that other needs to exist in a substantial way. The term "PUL" would be meaningless if there weren't beings who existed substantially enough to share it.

I've had OBEs with all the effects without the need of a lucid dream first taking place, I've had OBEs that started with a lucid dream, and I've had waking dreams where OBE like efffects weren't required in order for me to experience what I needed to experience.

I believe that some people get too caught up in whether one is has an OBE, lucid dream or regular dream. What's important is whether the experience is being used as a means to learn about something.

I had OBEs with all the effects back when I wasn't as spiritually developed as I am now. It may be that when a person becomes more developed spiritually an OBE method is no longer necessary.

If one reads what Bruce Moen wrote, he didn't have any so-called classic OBEs, but he did have experiences where he received information that he could confirm later. He also had experiences where he shared PUL with others.  Therefore, despite what someone like Frank Kepple might say, he experienced more than his imagination.

My feeling is that people who are critical of the imagination technigue aren't aware of what takes place. Since Astral realms and mental realms are basically mind-created, perhaps mind activity is a good way to connect to such realms.  Perhaps doing something such as rolling out on one's body is something that people do when they don't understand that reality is more about different energy levels, not different 3d space locations.




Bruce Moen wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 11:37pm:

OutOfBodyDude, Looks interesting from an out of body perspective.  If could do OBE or Lucid Dreaming at will I'd be teaching that.  I figure some folks can do it easily and some folks take years trying and can't.  I teach that crowd. Hope other visitors here click your link.  Lots of good stuff. Bruce

recoverer,

"Therefore, despite what someone like Frank Kepple might say, he experienced more than his imagination. My feeling is that people who are critical of the imagination technigue aren't aware of what takes place."

Might say and say is like believing and knowing. I've read the posts on astralpulse and know that kepple in his writing span has mentioned using imagination as a springboard to shift focus.

I was referring to what KarmaLars wrote in a broad sense, without wanting to iron out all of the details of what Frank Kepple did or didn't say.


Volu wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 12:27pm:

recoverer, "Therefore, despite what someone like Frank Kepple might say, he experienced more than his imagination. My feeling is that people who are critical of the imagination technigue aren't aware of what takes place." Might say and say is like believing and knowing. I've read the posts on astralpulse and know that kepple in his writing span has mentioned using imagination as a springboard to shift focus.

"I was referring to what KarmaLars wrote in a broad sense, without wanting to iron out all of the details of what Frank Kepple did or didn't say."

Every and all details excluded, you attributed something to kepple which is your imagination, and my feeling is that you who are critical of kepple aren't aware of what took place.

I thought I'd throw this in: I just looked up this Frank Kepple fellow and read some of his methods. What I read is imaginative exercises. I can see imagination can be used by someone to condition oneself and one's subconscious to accept leaving the body is possible before actually doing it, because it is used to doing it before (in imagination) and thinks it is ok, so subconscious later allows it to be done for real, without using imagination. 

I really can recommend Ziewe's book. His experiences he describes are of a great variety, from the mentioned personal-imagination-level to amazingly beautiful shared realities up to the mystical deconstruction of the reality we know.

He states his belief that there's a connection between his meditation practice and his OBEs. I found this particularly interesting. Some of his experiences are similar to those of long-time traditional meditators.

Spooky