Dear forum members,

Recently a person living in my town committed suicide because he couldnt handle ppl commenting on how he looked. I know its kind of silly but, he had a burn on his face which made him un appealing to women and source of jokes to his mates n others alike.

So if we are to believe in an afterlife, how does that person look? :-? Secondly, what about kids and ppl killed in acts of violence?  Such incidents make me question the afterlife, because if it really exists and we can realize anything we think of there, whats the need of life on earth? Honestly, what "learning" would a daily labourer working in a hick corner of some third world country gain as a soul? Im sorry im ranting. I researched the net and almost 70% of the arrows point towards this flowchart.

Death----endgame   or,

Death---->soul release(which doesnt remember anything since its left the body)----->new life.

In both the cases the person "X" is dead for all practical reasons, i mean his councious (pardon the wrong spelling) is dead.

Iv tried ordering the afterlife guidebook but it wouldnt ship here! ::)
I recieved a msg from a "practical thinker" saying:-

Some one here wrote, "I guess we'll all find out after death, won't we?" to which I'd respond No, that statement doesn't make any sense at all. We won't find out anything at all after we die. The processor by which we find things out (the brain)
having been destroyed by death will make the finding out of anything impossible. Death will put us into the same place or plane that we occupied before birth. Do we remember that? NO. Why? Because we were nonexistent. Heck we can't even remember when we were newborns and up until almost 5 years of age and why is that? Because our brains were in their infant stage being programmed with information about our surroundings, peoples faces and the language we would learn and thus we started to form our personalities from these experiences and memories were made and slowly we became a personality, a (living soul) with a consciousness of the world around us and the world around us became familiar with us as a person with possessed certain traits and characteristics unique to us. It isn't so hard to see that the brain is the seat of all consciousness and when the brain dies so dies the person. It's not rocket science. The brain evolves from birth

Hey there,

First off, I feel sorry for the man who comitted suicide; he probably had a pretty tough life.

Well, it seems like you've already made up your own belief system. It answers all your questions, so why are you not happy with it?


Quote:

Honestly, what "learning" would a daily labourer working in a hick corner of some third world country gain as a soul

So you're saying only people in first world countries can learn about life, love, respect, etc?


Quote:

Do we remember that? NO. Why? Because we were nonexistent. Heck we can't even remember when we were newborns and up until almost 5 years of age and why is that? Because our brains were in their infant stage being programmed with information about our surroundings, peoples faces and the language we would learn and thus we started to form our personalities from these experiences and memories were made and slowly we became a personality

Unless you have multiple personalities, please don't say "we" when talking about yourself.
I do believe you, I just don't want to be included in your personal childhood memories.

good night,
Vagabound

Both my son and my father were born conscious and both say they remember the process of being born. I have no reason to doubt them. I'm sure most of us don' t the same way most of don't remember our dreams. Its a skill each of us has to learn unless we are lucky enough to have the gift of great memory from the dream world.

seeking_answers wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 7:52am:

Iv tried ordering the afterlife guidebook but it wouldnt ship here! ::)

I have the privilege of witnessing people discovering answers to questions like yours through their own direct experience every workshop I give.  If you order the Guidebook thru this website, if the Postal Service delivers there you will receive it.

The question you ask are universal.

Bruce

seeking_answers wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 7:52am:

Some one here wrote, "I guess we'll all find out after death, won't we?" to which I'd respond No, that statement doesn't make any sense at all. We won't find out anything at all after we die. The processor by which we find things out (the brain) having been destroyed by death will make the finding out of anything impossible. Death will put us into the same place or plane that we occupied before birth. Do we remember that? NO. Why? Because we were nonexistent. Heck we can't even remember when we were newborns and up until almost 5 years of age and why is that? Because our brains were in their infant stage being programmed with information about our surroundings, peoples faces and the language we would learn and thus we started to form our personalities from these experiences and memories were made and slowly we became a personality, a (living soul) with a consciousness of the world around us and the world around us became familiar with us as a person with possessed certain traits and characteristics unique to us. It isn't so hard to see that the brain is the seat of all consciousness and when the brain dies so dies the person. It's not rocket science. The brain evolves from birth

It sure seems that way.

What about those odd balls who say they can leave their body(and its brain) and sustain conscious existence while out of body? 

Crossbow,


crossbow wrote on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 3:51am:

It sure seems that way.

It seemed that way to me too before I had any direct experience that suggested otherwise.  I too once believed my existence required a physical body with a functioning brain.  But then I learned how to make supposed contact and supposedly communicate with people who were known to be deceased.  It took three and a half years of these kind of experiences to convince me that these experiences could be real. 

As an engineer/science type I needed verifiable evidence and used this basic premise to find it:

1  Find a way to communicate with a person known to be deceased.
2.  From this person gather information I have absolutely no way of knowing except via the communication with this dead person.
3  Seek to verify the information with physical world sources.
4  If the information is verified I have evidence (not necessarily proof) that this person continues to exist somewhere after death.

Exploring in this way added new experiences that affected my beliefs about our after death existence.  Eventually I had to accept that my beliefs about it had been wrong.  It is my belief that until one has direct experience to base conclusions on one's conclusions are just opinions and beliefs.


crossbow wrote on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 3:51am:

What about those odd balls who say they can leave their body(and its brain) and sustain conscious existence while out of body?

Perhaps in attempting to replicate their experience we will have our own direct experience from which to form an informed opinion?

In these areas of exploration it is my view that no one else's beliefs or opinions are worth much, only one's direct experience can be relied to discover the truth, whatever that is.

Bruce

Hey guys thanks for ur replies,

Vagabound, i apologize i didnt mean to question your or anyones belief here. Trust me ive been under extreme stress to the point of well suicide...which im trying to avoid...well i am really. I am trying to believe, and im trying to...to make it worse my dad just got hit by cancer...thats taken the wind out of my sails...i dunno im jus losing my plot.

Thanks Mr Moen, i did try to order, but they dont accept my debit card now, il have to look around again. :(

Thanks....im jus depressed now.

It is certainly understandable that you believe that life ends with death. But consider this:  There is no more proof for the idea that life does end after death than there is for the idea that it does not. You can no more prove that the afterlife does not exist, than you can prove that it does. And there are inumerable testimonies from people throughout history, beginning with our first attempts at written communication, that attest to the existence of the afterlife, and give first-hand descriptions of it. Many of the people who describe the afterlife have been men and women of science, no more or less qualified to judge than those people who flatly refuse to allow the existence of an immortal soul. Why on earth (pardon the pun) would you believe one group over the other, unless you had personal experience with which to decide? At any rate, please know that suicide is not the answer to your problems (in my opinion). Your father's illness is a hard blow, and sets you off your balance. But there is more to the situation than just the fear, the pain and the dread that you are now experiencing.
Peace,
Freeman

Hey,

Well, I got mad at you for those statements about my existence, my brain and my memories. Not for questioning belief systems.

I thought that since you've made up your own belief system, which answers all your questions, it can't be answers you're looking for. I just want to know what it is you need to hear.
May be one of us can help, but only if we know what it is that you need.

take care,
Vagabound

ok il pm u mr bound :)

Bruce,
Thank you for addressing my comment & question so clearly. I might have inadvertently mislead you, as I'm one of those odd balls myself.

I enjoy discussing this subject with engineer/science types who appreciate the systematic approach. I have several friends in medicine/science who are actively but quietly investigating this field. Unfortunately the scientific community is not as open minded as it could be, and those scientists who are open minded on the subject tend to keep quiet about it to safeguard their careers.

Seeking Answers,
You mention suicide. If the impulse is strong or intrusive - postpone. And in the meantime have a chat with a counsellor.

crossbow

i am...im gonna give myself a shot at exploring before i make up my mind...

seeking_answers wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 12:11pm:

i am...im gonna give myself a shot at exploring before i make up my mind...

Yes, do. There is plenty to explore.