hi I'm not saying that commiting suicide is the right way out,but if its not the right way out,why do so many do it.

I love God but if its wrong, then why is there so much pain,stress put onto the human soul,that in the end,the soul cannot cope with it anymore.

I beleive that when we say before we are born,that this is how my life shall be,and i need to learn about suffering and happiness.We don't fully understand what we are actually getting into.

At the time, that is what the soul agrees to, but when the soul goes onto the earth plain  and grows in to adulthood having learned about suffering along the way,things don't start working out the way it was intended.

The soul gets overloaded with suffering mentally,not what the soul was actually prepared for,so in the end the physical body that traps this soul into to much suffering,then convinces the physical body to call it a day,and commit suicide as the soul cannot cope anymore.

Then it goes back home to rest after such a overload to it's original life plan, which did not work out.

I love god with all my heart,so i know that God understands and forgives the soul for not quite making the life journey it planned for the physical earth.God knows the soul can only deal with so much  before it gives up.

Mental health illness is a condition brought on by life,life has a lot to answer for and for some its even harder to walk that path and they don't always reach the end,its not there fault though,the blame lies with life itself and always will.

love and God bless   love juditha

Suicide in general is neither right nor wrong. If a living being chooses to stop living that should be a matter of choice.

It is always arguable that a person is not mentally capable of making that choice due to emotional or psychical reasons, but who am I to make that call for them.

Often it seems we are presented to having to make a choice - which in itself can be a learning exercise - not that there would be a choice really, only it may seem that there is a choice.
My personal view about death and time of death is that it is fixed and not alterable, and my personal experiences seem to confirm this, but this is only my interpretation, because it most often seems that there are other - "higher" - forces that seem to control the event lines, and that our awake consciousness is not for making real choices but for experiencing ... various mental things ... in a confined environment which seems relatively stable - "physical reality".
My advice to anyone thinking seriously about suicide is: Try it! Either you are successful, and then it was meant to be, or not. If you think about something for a very long time, then explore it as much as you can, until you are satisfied.

Love :)

Except in the case of a highly debilitating disease or condition where one would be saving a monumental expense and hard times on loved ones I would say that suicide is only an alternative that will land you right back where you started from until you learn how to live without fear of living. Going early due to illness however I see as a brave choice because I truly feel it is thinking of others first in many ways.

Discs have many incarnations living without fear of living too even though one or more do not. I know that some incarnations come back, suicide or not, but many do not as they have so many fellow sparks gathering experiences.

Some say it's a selfish thing to do forgetting how selfish it is to want people around at any cost. For some reason the fish got to big to fry, and at least then they don't have to deal with many of the silly systems, dog and pony shows present on earth, and instead focus on untying the knot(s) that got tangled.

'Think about the loved ones' yeah, I'm sure many do, and if the one doing it truly is a loved one, so be it.

That said, I hope people who are thinking about doing it try to cope with and resolve whatever their problem is. Divide and conquer can be used for other means than domination.

Hi Judith,

My comment about your question . . .


wrote on Sep 10^th, 2011 at 3:53am:

I'm not saying that committing suicide is the right way out,but if its not the right way out,why do so many do it.

In almost every suicide case I have worked with the person who killed themselves expresses regret.  What they regret most was expressed by a guy who hung himself from the rafters of his garage.

He said something like,  I realize now that the emotional issues that I suicided over could have been worked through and resolved.  But I now realize that the one thing I need to be able to do that is hanging, dead, from the rafters in garage.

Some of the reasons we incarnate are to work through emotional issues we carry with us from previous experience.  It appears that at least some of these can only be dealt with during a physical lifetime.

Killing oneself over petty emotional feelings that we convince ourselves are insurmountable takes away the lifetime we took on to resolve them.   What a colossal waste of time!

Bruce

Going by what I've been able to figure out our psychological issues don't go away simply because we die.

Some people who commit suicide probably find that their emotional suffering becomes even more intense after they die because they no longer have the energetic affect of their physical body to insulate them from their feelings.

Also, they will energetically gravitate to a realm with spirits who have a similar vibration and as a result not only feel their own negative energy, but also the negative energy of souls with a similar vibration.

Regardless of where we are we need to find a way to draw upon the strength of our soul.

Bruce Moen wrote on Sep 12^th, 2011 at 5:13pm:

Some of the reasons we incarnate are to work through emotional issues we carry with us from previous experience.  It appears that at least some of these can only be dealt with during a physical lifetime. Killing oneself over petty emotional feelings that we convince ourselves are insurmountable takes away the lifetime we took on to resolve them.   What a colossal waste of time! Bruce

Commiting suicide isn't something typically done when in the right mind.  Those deeply emotionally damaged states of mind that cause one to think about and carry out suicide, I would imagine, is something the person would horribly regret upon passing over and realizing the harm they did to themselves.  Hopefully that's the case, rather than die and be stuck in that same horrible state of mind of worthlessness and helplessness.

I've hit that rock bottom at least a couple times in my life but managed to find a way out.  I can't imagine dying that way.  I had to tell myself, "if I can feel anything else at all just briefly enough to not feel this pain and I still want to die, then I'll do it."  And so I looked for anything I could to get me feeling any kind of happiness, however little it was, and I realized I didn't really want to die.  I just didn't want to feel those horrible emotions anymore.    

It's not an easy thing to do in such despair.  Things don't feel petty when you cannot see anything clearly in that kind of state of mind. 

But I know you're right Bruce, my emotional suffering, (anyone's suffering), in this life is what we're here to work on and deal with.  I just wish we could get to see some kind of score sheet along the way to know how we're doing!   :)    It's tough when you think you're doing great, but then life doesn't seem to reflect it always.  Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom again to be reminded, or to receive a little lift from someone.  Thank God for myself and anyone else who does get a little help now and then from friends and loved ones. 

Vicky

Bruce,

"But I now realize that the one thing I need to be able to do that is hanging, dead, from the rafters in garage."

And some get to realize they are so breathtakingly much more than the body, and the only passenger on the train they were not (yoda?), still with plenty of chances left to ride the train after the unpleasant trip.

"Some of the reasons we incarnate are to work through emotional issues we carry with us from previous experience."

Sure, emotional issues don't work themselves out so kicking the bucket won't help resolve them, though perhaps emotions about the body being a holy temple. Previous experience though is what jimi hendrix says to the roman soldier though they really died simultaneously and belonged to the same disk.

"Killing oneself over petty emotional feelings that we convince ourselves are insurmountable takes away the lifetime we took on to resolve them. What a colossal waste of time!"

The man whose pride has been taken away, and the man with aids. Pride is petty and a waste of time. What can't be seen is how and what they felt.

Once the shoe has been put on and walked for a mile, then the shoe knows the petty, or not, or even somewhat petty foot. 'Alas, for it was but an insignificant foot!' Another shoe can find the same foot smelly as a field of flowers showered with the occasional bit of rain, grazed by the morning winds and caressed by the sun. Deers pass while kittens stop by to rub their heads against the soft leather. Shoehorns are nowhere to be seen and the only bent curves are the shapes of eyelids twinkling in the glitter of today's promise: new shoes.

Now, that might be viewed as a waste of time. Colossal? Could be, for some.

Right or wrong? Who can tell? Walk in someone's shoes first before you judge.

Having experienced 'deep' depression first hand recently, I believe a person does not always have control over their thoughts to be able to take everyone's good advice on 'better' coping mechanisms than those suicidal thoughts.

I also know, from experience, how properly prescribed medication and supportive therapy can truly help some people. It was obvious to me when I was prescribed useful medication that it was helping me to let go of my obsessive thoughts and emotions.

Perhaps you have seen a pet obsessively chew its own tail, or other area of the body, to the point of drawing blood. It's a repetitive brain looping around causing the behavior. The cycle must be broken somehow, and there are many many ways to do it.

But, it takes time. Life is sometimes hard. We should not judge, but try to help without looking down on people. That's my 2 cents.

If you've been through it, you know it's just not that easy to focus on the 'bright side' if your physical 'vehicle' is not functioning well. In this present day world, where most of us do not have a 'natural' existence but are pushed and pulled by many forces which 'seem' greater than us, confusion and debilitation at some point in life can strike suddenly and harshly.

Be prepared, because someday that person might be you.

Build yourself up, your internal self, and never forget that change is possible, from wherever you are.

As I have mentioned before, you can be more than 'one person' in this lifetime. There is no shame in that. You just pick yourself up and keep 'walking', if that is right FOR YOU.

I don't believe it has anything to do with judging another, it's more about how a person's state of mind won't change simply because he or she dies. Therefore, it is good to work on ourselves even now.

Eggzacktly...

We don't really know, for the most part. There's no need to be 'this or that' or 'one or the other' about it. People make this 'choice' in so many different circumstances.

In fact, we call those who lay down their lives for other people heroes. Perhaps someone in the military, who leaps onto a grenade for his/her buddies. Or those folks the other day who lifted a burning car off of a motorcycle accident victim, even though it could have fallen on them or hurt them in some other way. Or perhaps those valiant firefighters who climbed the endless stairs at the World Trade Center buildings in an effort to do their jobs and save lives. 

Or perhaps the elderly person who has had 'enough' of this life, is terminally ill, and unable to live a life which has meaning to them...

Who knows what 'ghosts' haunt some people? Who knows the depth of another's pain?

But, yes, just because we 'leave' doesn't mean our experience is over. It can be a desperate choice or decided without passion for what seem to be good 'reasons'.

As well, suicide can be 'fast' or 'slow'. It's really just a word for 'deliberate' and 'in a hurry, like right now'. And how many of us 'always' know what we are doing, with all of the serious or not so serious consequences to follow?

Surely not me.

Recoverer,

"I don't believe it has anything to do with judging another, it's more about how a person's state of mind won't change simply because he or she dies. Therefore, it is good to work on ourselves even now."

Judging is measuring and measuring is how navigation happens on earth. If you think pul is fantastic, you've made a judgement, and most likely a chain of judgements have led you there.

Seeing loved ones attending a funeral for a suicidal is likely to make someone think of right or wrong, ie. a judgement. Seeing a bent head with the tongue sticking out like a tie and brown new pants is likely to make someone judge how that looks. Not as pretty as the picture from the recent holiday, perhaps.

Suicide. Even the word makes some people look like they're going to be the next jumper, looks like they won't be moving in next to the sewersides anytime soon. Can't blame someone for liking bread better than eating a shotgun, but a waste of life it is not. No lives are.

wrote on Sep 10^th, 2011 at 3:53am:

I love god with all my heart,so i know that God understands and forgives the soul for not quite making the life journey it planned for the physical earth.God knows the soul can only deal with so much before it gives up.

Hey Juditha,
agree completely, we can think of ourselves as being God's children, being made in His image, that means having all His freedoms and powers - we are loved by God, and we are given all the freedom He has, and we are always completely free to decide whatever we like, and He gives us what we desire. If we want to be done with this life and end it, no problem, no one has to do anything against their will, really. It was our will in the first place that brought us here, and wherever we want to be, we will get there. We can decide to be happy and will be given happiness, then we might get bored over time (maybe very long time), and decide we want to experience unhappiness, and then God will fulfil our desire too, regardless of what we want, He does not say, 'this is good and that is bad', no, He does not care about good and bad at all, it is only in our experience.
So just feel free to step out of the incarnation whenever you want, and maybe then you stay a little longer when knowing you can get out whenever it gets too stressful. I found this thought soothing and helpful for myself for some time.
Love  ;)

Here's a near death experience that speaks about suicide.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/suicide04.html

I think that whatever your conscious state of mind is remains unchanged when you die - initially.

If someone is so distraught over emotional issues that they kill themselves, there is no reason to think that just being rid of their physical body, they will change their thought process and go to one of the heavens.  More than likely, from all we know of the afterlife, your thought takes you to a level where you best fit in.  And in this case, I think that really stacks the odds against those who commit suicide.  It is not that people can't move on, but it must be quite difficult.

You see it is different if someone is dying of a disease with intractable pain.  In that instance, the person, can be of sound mind and say, that while their consciousness dwells in love, they simply know that their physical form is beyond regenerating.

A suicide done for depression or emotional reasons is quite a different subject.  In that case, the emotions have no reason to be altered when the physical body is shed.  Then, if there are surviving loved ones who suffer, from losing that person, it must magnify their grief 1000 fold. 

I don't believe all suicidal souls are hopeless in the afterlife, but I do think that if "like attracts like," that they are making a bee-line path to a horrible afterlife realm, based on their pre-morbid emotional state.  It is not a condemnation from God, but rather from their own judgement of themselves. 



Matthew

Hi Matthew,

"I think that whatever your conscious state of mind is remains unchanged when you die - initially. If someone is so distraught over emotional issues that they kill themselves, there is no reason to think that just being rid of their physical body, they will change their thought process and go to one of the heavens."

Yes, getting rid of the body isn't a magic wand because emotions are within, but.. there are other places to go than heavens, like the healing centre in focus 27. Bodies are like organic computers, and spirits temporarily merge with these programmed vehicles. It's not always easy to separate what thoughts originate from the deepest parts of who you are (mature or immature as the spirit may be), or the always immature body. New agers call this the inner child which just adds a mysterious mist to something straightforward. Doubts and fears are something bodies excel at computing. Afraid to die? That's the body. What is operating the body don't dwell on that as it is eternal and has always been. Part of this design is that nobody truly gets lost, disappear or cease to exist. Except for bodies.

Does having a body make things different? Sure, that's why "people" come to earth.

"More than likely, from all we know of the afterlife, your thought takes you to a level where you best fit in.  And in this case, I think that really stacks the odds against those who commit suicide.  It is not that people can't move on, but it must be quite difficult."

There are astral planes where sparks with distorted emotions go as part of like attracting like, and the planes are there because they serve a greater purpose - a space to work it out. And sometimes they as we get a little help from our friends. The most important factor however is the connection to the disk/greater self.

"You see it is different if someone is dying of a disease with intractable pain.  In that instance, the person, can be of sound mind and say, that while their consciousness dwells in love, they simply know that their physical form is beyond regenerating."

Physical pain dies with the body as it is of the body.

"A suicide done for depression or emotional reasons is quite a different subject.  In that case, the emotions have no reason to be altered when the physical body is shed.  Then, if there are surviving loved ones who suffer, from losing that person, it must magnify their grief 1000 fold."

1000 fold is wee bit heavy on the drama, and I do have a sense of where that comes from. Emotions have just as much reason to change when the body is shed, as earth isn't the alpha and the omega.

For the survivors, now they know at least a smidget how terrible suffering can be. Sadness and grief can occur too when somebody's body just happens to drop dead out of nowhere, and it will happen eventually.

"I don't believe all suicidal souls are hopeless in the afterlife, but I do think that if "like attracts like," that they are making a bee-line path to a horrible afterlife realm, based on their pre-morbid emotional state.  It is not a condemnation from God, but rather from their own judgement of themselves."

No suicidals are hopeless. Like attracting like happens here too and it's not the end of the world nor end of a path. An extended play in focus 27 and god won't be a problem anymore if it ever was. Progress is inevitable, here or somewhere else.

Bottom line, do I recommend suicide? No, not at all, but I do recommend a general increase in the understanding department, especially if one's involved with retrievals. If what one truly think is that suicides are a waste of time, being a retriever/helper with these cases are not for you. Someone who died in a bed of roses may be more like it. They both would have made even a minuscule bit of progress in their lives, but the one whose death happened by own decision could remind a retriever that they're not quite there yet regarding knowing they're not bodies. Fair enough.

I believe that Doc said it well.


DocM wrote on Sep 14^th, 2011 at 11:02pm:

I think that whatever your conscious state of mind is remains unchanged when you die - initially. If someone is so distraught over emotional issues that they kill themselves, there is no reason to think that just being rid of their physical body, they will change their thought process and go to one of the heavens.  More than likely, from all we know of the afterlife, your thought takes you to a level where you best fit in.  And in this case, I think that really stacks the odds against those who commit suicide.  It is not that people can't move on, but it must be quite difficult. You see it is different if someone is dying of a disease with intractable pain.  In that instance, the person, can be of sound mind and say, that while their consciousness dwells in love, they simply know that their physical form is beyond regenerating. A suicide done for depression or emotional reasons is quite a different subject.  In that case, the emotions have no reason to be altered when the physical body is shed.  Then, if there are surviving loved ones who suffer, from losing that person, it must magnify their grief 1000 fold.  I don't believe all suicidal souls are hopeless in the afterlife, but I do think that if "like attracts like," that they are making a bee-line path to a horrible afterlife realm, based on their pre-morbid emotional state.  It is not a condemnation from God, but rather from their own judgement of themselves.  Matthew

It may be true that some people go to an unpleasant place or a purgatory. I don't know.

But, a retrieval I once did showed the person in a peaceful outdoor setting. And the info was verified, as far as I was concerned. There was supervision, and the info did come from a guide who 'let me' see the info. I assumed that was the person's actual state, but it could have been info meant to comfort the family. It was verified, in my mind, by matching info I got about the victim later.

Still, I don't think people are just left to suffer in the afterlife. When people talk about 'stuck' souls being 'wherever they are' for 1000s of years, etc. I just have a hard time with it. A single moment can feel like an eternity to someone who is suffering, and that moment could be stored forever, and then 'seen' as actually lasting that long.

i have often thought about suicide when i,m really down but i dont do this because i have an autistic son who needs me and i couldnt do that to him or my other children it would   be cruel and heartless and selfish thing to do , sometimes i find my life very hard but i make myself get through it ,its hard so hard sometimes but as i have said the love i have for my children makes me stronger when i feel suicidal ,i have sinned in my life and i feel that i should pay for my sins nobody is an angel we all have our regetful moments when we wished we hadnt done this ,hadnt said that but once its done u cant take it back . my mother told me i was useless and stupid all through my growing up years ,so i grew up thinking exactly that because that was all i ever knew it took me a long time to stop thinking i was what my mother says i was ,since i have got grown up children of my own i never ever told them they were stupid i raise their self esteemn they are much stronger than me emotionally because i brought them up to think they were impotant individuals ,i have suffered quite a lot since my time on earth ,the things i,ve been through u wouldnt believe but as i have said my children keep me goin and most of all my faith in god i was put on this earth for a reason as everyone else was As well its up to god when he wants u back home in his heavenly realm he will take u wheter u are as fit as a fiddle or very ill i leave my life in gods hands i love my father in heaven and he is worth suffering on the earth plain for however hard it gets dianna

hi dianna my darling sis    i know how you feel as our mother always said that we were not what she wanted and i to as you know grew up thinking i wasn't good enough to here on the earth plain,i also as you know think of suicide most of the time ,but like you my children make me want to live and i love god with all my heart as well

He also has a purpose for me and i  know that oneday we will both rest in his beautiful land away from the mental torture we have both and still have sometimes even now,i know we are twins but we have lived very similar lives on this plain,but god will deliver us both from hell on earth to peace in his comforting arms,for the twins that never belonged.

That's why life has got a lot to answer for.

Love and god bless  love juditha xxxxxx

Your right my lovely sis my sentiments exactly love u dianna

Matthew,

DocM wrote on Sep 14^th, 2011 at 11:02pm:

I think that whatever your conscious state of mind is remains unchanged when you die - initially.

I agree.  In that initial stage the thoughts and feelings we are holding at death can strongly influence us.  What happens after that depends on a lot of factors.

The movie, What Dreams May Come, did a good job or portraying someone who's state of mind in her suicide death led her to be stuck.  The feelings that led her to suicide led her into her own private hell.  And though a little Hollywoodized her retrieval by her husband, the Robin Williams character, well done also.

I had only a very few criticisms of that movie accuracy-wise, for me it is a great movie.

Bruce

I guess we all have a choice in the "plan" for the incarnation before getting here...why does that not come with fortitude to see the soul through the experience. I have a VERY difficult life, but I love it - embrace it. I think that attitude comes from an awareness that this existence is just a long school-day - no matter how tough, I am going to go home after learning something. There is no way I will ever commit suicide.

Why do souls choose challenges they can't see themselves through?

Also, seems like there is a lot of freaking downside to any physical incarnation. My consciousness could be in the high Astral planes one minute, and next thing you know - I am in freaking purgatory because I messed up in one lifetime. Nothing but downside coming here...too many trip ups - not just suicide, opening other karmic loops, etc.