Riots in London, the stock market crashing, riots in the middle eastern countries, with more to come.  WOW !!

This is long overdue.   I have spent the last five years biting at the bit wondering when the powers that be were going to get on with it.    I knew that they were waiting for their window.     It has finally arrived.

The old paradigm is coming to an end. You have to tear down the old to build a new.

I have been actively doing my part participating in many different poles, signing online petitions, each one taking away the power of the ruling dark to make room for more light.

This is not a time for fear. It's a time to start celebrating.  The collective work of the light workers, that's you, combined with the help of our friends from other star systems and the workers from the higher planes are quickly bringing us up to the next stage.

This is in addition to the new wave of many new high power energies pouring in at the same time.  Were just getting started my dear friend.

I just wish there was a way so share my ecstasy with what is happening right now.

There will be changes, most of us will be affected in one way or another, most of them will be positive with a few growing pains along the way.    The Gloom and Doom scenarios
ain't gonna happen, so you might as well sit back and enjoy.    The ride is about to get exciting.

I saw this coming many years ago. Because of it, I always felt like the lad on Christmas eve.    After awhile, was beginning to wonder if Christmas was ever going to arrive.

Meanwhile, I have always felt like I was surrounded by deep sleepers, aka zombies, who have mistaken this dream were parked in as their reality.     I am sure most of you have experienced this too.      Tried to reach some of them, was immediately labeled as weird, crazy, different... etc       This included family and friends.  Also became comfortable with those labels. 

As the people start to wake up, they are going to start looking  to us for answers to the strange changes taking place in their lives.    The new paradigm will present them with a lot
of new  challenges that they have never encountered before.     This is all part of the long overdue Ascension process.

This is one of the primary reasons why this web site came into existence, and why you will be playing a key role in assisting the folks in your orbit who are finally starting to wake up.

You are going to go from being weird, to being one of the most sought after person for the folks in your close orbit.             The changes taking place right now are long overdue.

Sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride. Christmas has finally arrived !

Love  Bob  :)

Bob McKelvy wrote on Aug 9^th, 2011 at 10:03am:

Riots in London, the stock market crashing, riots in the middle eastern countries, with more to come.  WOW !! This is long overdue.   I have spent the last five years biting at the bit wondering when the powers that be were going to get on with it.    I knew that they were waiting for their window.     It has finally arrived. The old paradigm is coming to an end. You have to tear down the old to build a new. I have been actively doing my part participating in many different poles, signing online petitions, each one taking away the power of the ruling dark to make room for more light. This is not a time for fear. It's a time to start celebrating.  The collective work of the light workers, that's you, combined with the help of our friends from other star systems and the workers from the higher planes are quickly bringing us up to the next stage. This is in addition to the new wave of many new high power energies pouring in at the same time.  Were just getting started my dear friend. I just wish there was a way so share my ecstasy with what is happening right now. There will be changes, most of us will be affected in one way or another, most of them will be positive with a few growing pains along the way.    The Gloom and Doom scenarios ain't gonna happen, so you might as well sit back and enjoy.    The ride is about to get exciting. I saw this coming many years ago. Because of it, I always felt like the lad on Christmas eve.    After awhile, was beginning to wonder if Christmas was ever going to arrive. Meanwhile, I have always felt like I was surrounded by deep sleepers, aka zombies, who have mistaken this dream were parked in as their reality.     I am sure most of you have experienced this too.      Tried to reach some of them, was immediately labeled as weird, crazy, different... etc       This included family and friends.  Also became comfortable with those labels.  As the people start to wake up, they are going to start looking  to us for answers to the strange changes taking place in their lives.    The new paradigm will present them with a lot of new  challenges that they have never encountered before.     This is all part of the long overdue Ascension process. This is one of the primary reasons why this web site came into existence, and why you will be playing a key role in assisting the folks in your orbit who are finally starting to wake up. You are going to go from being weird, to being one of the most sought after person for the folks in your close orbit.             The changes taking place right now are long overdue. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride. Christmas has finally arrived ! Love  Bob  :)

Ladies and Gentlemen,

As we can see above, Loving Bob is having orgasms over other people's sufferings, violence and trouble. 

"...celebrate...sit back and enjoy...share my ecstasy with what is happening... enjoy the ride. Christmas has finally arrived!..Love Bob"

These sorts of fruit cakes (amongst other sorts too) have always been around.  Through history we have seen them get ecstatic over every major outbreak of other people's strife; most especially when it is strife upon their own group but does not directly effect them. In more recent times we see them in joyous rapture during the Gulf Wars, the bombing of the Trade Towers, stock-market crashes, and so on. They sit before their TV screen watching other people's strife with their eyes sparkling with delight and their nether regions contracting pleasurably. They are often found amongst fundamental, emotionally driven and reactive groups and ideologies. Although they are usually functional in a day to day sense, they are in fact mentally, emotionally and spiritually unwell. They are unbalanced, like a duck flapping about on the ground with a broken wing. But their unbalance is inside themselves; in their mind, emotions and soul. Their heart is not functioning, for the heart is an organ or love; it feels no sense of celebration over the sufferings of others. Love only wishes that the sufferings of others be minimal. What they feel is emotion, not love. Such unwellness, as Bob is exhibiting, can afflict those who do not rightly brace ourselves within. We must exercise reason and practicality in our thinking and our living. We must differentiate between rational thought and fantasy. Fantasy should be known to be fantasy. If our life is totally committed to occult/spiritual pursuit then we should not indulgence in fantasy at all, but be always poised, conscious, rational, and constructive and beneficial in our thinking; for fantasising and full-on full conscious committed occult/spiritual d do not mix well, any more than fantasising mixes with driving a car or flying an airplane. We will spiritually crash if we mix these things. Even if we are casual aspirants, living casual spiritual lives, we should keep our mind and thoughts solid and sensible. Still indulging in play, humour and fun, but always with a background sense of responsibility and awareness of right living, and consideration for others. Value truth above all else; and the welfare of others.  Exercise fairness to others. Sure it is natural for us to have a laugh when someone slips over on a banana skin or pokes them self in the eye with their own finger, as long as they are not too hurt, but a healthy heart does not rejoice over other people's sufferings.

There is a description of love in the bible. From memory I think it is Corinthians chapter 13 (?) It is worth reading and pondering on.

From inside our heart, we can exercise a meditative love-wish that other's sufferings be minimal as they learn and grow. We can wish that whatever experience they go through in life, whatever lessons they must learn, that they learn their lessons with a minimum of suffering on themselves and on others. This love-wish is warm and golden, and can be felt and seen in the heart and coming from the heart. It radiates outward and travels to its target, where it influences for good. The breath can help facilitate this love-wish. It is not judgmental. Love just wishes well for others.

Get well Bob.

crossbow

I have to say, I get what Bob is saying.

I have received a number of spirit messages and have had a number of non-physical experiences that made the point that significant earth changes are likely to happen. First things will get bad, then they will get significantly better.

A part of the reason changes are needed is because there are too many people who are followers of belief systems created by other people. Such people could use some help from people who aren't caught up in some belief system and that don't rely on what entities such as the mainstream media have to say.

It isn't a matter of rejoicing because people will have to go through a difficult time period. It is matter of understanding that such a time period will be required before this World ascends. If a period of change isn't experienced, then the World will continue to experience future generations of the imense amount of negativity it has experienced. Unfriendly beings such as Reptilians will continue to have their way and use this World as a place of negative energy creation.

I figure that many souls volunteered to incarnate into this World even though it would go through much difficulty because they understood that in the long run it will be a worthwhile thing to do. Because such a sacrifice is made, future generations where things such as forced prostitution run rampant will no longer take place. Also, since this Earth is a conscious being, we need to treat her better.

Regarding Reptilians, I haven't received specific information about them, but I have received information that showed that negative aliens are influencing this World.  I referred to Reptilians because even though some questionable sources speak of them, there are sources that seem trustworthy to me that also speak of them.

A late P.S.

When you've been sick, the perspiration that accompanies your fever is a good sign.

Crossbow,

"[...]
There is a description of love in the bible. From memory I think it is Corinthians chapter 13 (?) It is worth reading and pondering on."

If that love can be traced back to the other "points" in your post, no thanks. :)

"We can wish that whatever experience they go through in life, whatever lessons they must learn, that they learn their lessons with a minimum of suffering on themselves and on others."

If light polarity is what gets you going, does that not involve the fruitcakes of this world with their lessons?

"This love-wish is warm and golden, and can be felt and seen in the heart and coming from the heart. It radiates outward and travels to its target, where it influences for good. The breath can help facilitate this love-wish. It is not judgmental. Love just wishes well for others."

Sweet talking, the walking is a bit harder to do. I may curl you up in a warm and gentle corner in the mind yet you nor the the world aren't on the behest of my wishing you the best. If you or anyone else think your love has the power to change the world, what are you waiting for?

Fruit cake eh?   Will add that to my list of unique names :-)   I can understand where your coming from because you are well established in a belief system complete with a set of guidelines and reference points.   

As the changes are speeded up, some of those reference points that you are comfortable with may be challenged.   

I can remember way back when I was in your shoes when I had all kinds of books and answers to just about everything.  This included a two year stint in the Mary Knoll seminary studying for the Priesthood.  

Went through several belief system crashes after that.   Those handy dandy reference points would no longer serve me.

The more I learned, the more I realized what I didn't
know.  Finally reached what I like to call a zero point.

From there, learned that true spirituality is caught.  In time as our collective ascension is accelerated, you might experience a belief system crash. I hope it does not happen to you.  If it does, us "fruit cakes" will be more than glad to assist you though that phase.

For the time being, enjoy your comfortable niche.
Your very fortunate to be in that phase.

It takes a tremendous amount of courage to break free from it and move to the next phase.
   Love Bob  :)

Whoa!

When comments are put in quotes, we  are indicating that someone else said them.  I cannot find these words (thoughts) put out by anyone else posting here.  So I assume they are your own, BC.
You stand alone in your capitalized  (shouted?) comment, so own it. I don't think, nor believe, it's true of Bob.

Betson

Hi Bob

loved your post. It cheered me up. I hope you are right!

This must be some of yoru EMT work.

Lucy

I knew this post would rattle cages and press a few  buttons. 

It will also serve as a wake-up call for some of you because it might be time to re-access the current reality that you are accustomed to since some of those changes might challenge it.

Life is not going to be as simple and easy as it used to be.  sigh ... I wish it was.

Knew there would be a little flak and a few new labels added to  the ones I already have :-)  The "fruit cake" label will remain a favorite of mine for awhile.  Thanks.

I have a very thick hide and a giant loving heart, so please feel free to fire away.   If you could only get a faint glimpse of what is about to happen, you would be jumping  in joy with me.

Right now, things are not as they appear to be at the moment.

It's not as well defined  as it used to be as we make the transition to the new paradigm that is quickly replacing the one that we have always known.

You are very fortunate to be parked here as the changes start happening because we also have a lot of high power advanced people who live here who will be able to help you as the changes are accelerated.

Love Bob :-)

Seeing all those movements, changes, riots, insecurities, I remember similar things of the past. It is not bad to try to make people see what is happening NOW and to act NOW, but it is not really helpful, and not logical, to name others as followers of their own belief systems, when this one clearly believes that NOW is the time of the so-called "Earth Changes". Which is nothing else than a belief system. We've had a lot of earth changes in the past, and we do have them now as well. They are, and have always been, right NOW.

Regarding the riots (or better said vandalism, plundering, and homicides) in Britain, I prefer to lean back instead of setting my neighbours' house on fire, despite the fact that I'm poor (relatively seen, in a rich country).

Spooky

It is OK to disagree with someone, but labels such as "fruitcake" serve no purpose, and are demeaning.  I know Bob from here and another website and he is without a doubt, a true seeker of spirituality and love.  Think about how hard it is to see ahead, and then post your vision/feelings openly, knowing that others may disagree.  And several of you jump on him?

Sometimes we all try to make sense of global happenings, and postulate where the human race is going.  There is definitely a "collective" consciousness and shared common archetypes that we all have (dream images consistent from one person to another) - so Bob's idea that incarnated human beings may be on the verge of a global change may or may not be correct.  Either way, we should be respectful when we disagree.  Otherwise this forum will be more boring, with the same posters posting and new posters being scared away.

For myself, I prefer to concentrate on freeing my mind up of hindering beliefs, and trying to move toward what I know to be "right" or loving action. (Because thought without action is, in this world not meaningful).  Along the way, I hope to get my friends, my wife and kids, to understand my own experiences and visions.  I share them freely, although perhaps less colorfully than Bob. 

It does become a problem when we move from the evoultion of our own consciousness to global consciousness, as on this planet people vary so widely in their beliefs and their actions.  At times, with the negative news articles and the press, it appears that just the opposite of global ascencion is going on; more that the youngest generation is lost, not directed toward love and more self-centered, and destructive than ever before. 

I personally don't subscribe to the notion that we will all be whisked up into an accelerated evolutionary leap all at once, as I feel that there is a gradual maturity, a ripening of spirituality, that is slow but steady. 

Those of you who come down on Bob seem to have misunderstood him, thinking that he "relished" the violence going on in the world.  That was not my take after reading his post.  More that he felt that things would be shaken up before a positive global change occurred.

Agree or disagree, but do it with civility. Hey, we are all posting on an "afterlife" website.....how many of our friends and family would label us all as "wackadoodles" (favorite term of my friend, Berserk) if they knew you posted here?


Matthew

Thank you Doc. :)

I'm confused as to why Bob has been attacked about his original post too.

"...celebrate...sit back and enjoy...share my ecstasy with what is happening... enjoy the ride. Christmas has finally arrived!..Love Bob"

It's like this has been read along with the riots and the stock market crashing and the rest that he wrote has been ignored. There's nothing wrong with Bob's post, although personally I think he's jumping the gun. However, it's better than saying all of this after the event has happened. Also, who am I to argue anyway? I haven't experienced what Bob has.

Crossbow said:

"As we can see above, Loving Bob is having orgasms over other people's sufferings, violence and trouble."

Involving the riots, people are suffering anyway and have been for some time now due to the inadequate Labour Government of the past.

Also things like this, http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/jul/08/british-gas-raises-gas-electricity-prices, when they are making profits like this, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1330508/Days-British-Gas-raises-bills-7-firm-announces-2-2bn-profits.html.

Then the other suppliers follow suit and the Government allows it  ::). Do you not realise that elderly people die every winter because they can't afford to heat their homes due to these criminals?

This is one of many examples, far too many.

I used to be proud to say I'm English, now I'm embarrassed to say it, this country is now a shadow of it's former self due to one thing, greed.

I applaud the riots, not because of the suffering it has caused, not at all, but because it seems to be the only way to make the penny drop where the Government is concerned, and besides, it would never have happened if things were done right in the first place.

People like this gentleman should be able to have a chance of being Prime Minister in my opinion, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzDQCT0AJcw. I have a lot of respect for this man and what he says here. This is how it's done and not the ducking and diving like the public schoolboys do.

I'm sorry if this appears to be off topic but it's relevant, these riots wouldn't have happened if people weren't suffering already.

Also I totally agree with what you said Matthew.

Andy

The BBC have now apoligised to him now for making false accusations against him http://voice-online.co.uk/article/darcus-howe-i-welcome-bbc-apology.

  Like Albert (Recoverer), i've received messages indicating that there will be significant changes, from a probability perspective, taking place in the near and further future.  And by significant, i mean civilization altering.  I don't mean the same old, same old that Spooky addressed.   

Some of the messages i've received indicated that the Sun may become so active as to knock out electrical systems worldwide and very quickly and dramatically change climates.   One conclusion from these messages and looking at the messages from outer sources i respect, is that of humanity will be pretty much forced to work together in order to survive.  This will eventually lead to a much more stronger unity consciousness.   Like always, some will get there sooner than others, but this cycle is very collective group oriented. 

   I don't get the sense that these will be "easy" changes by any means, but neither do i get the sense that they will be utterly destructive either.   

  But i can understand some of where Crossbow is coming from in saying that one shouldn't wish or want suffering for others, i just don't agree with him applying that to other posters here.  I don't think any of us look forward to the suffering of others.  A number of us are in positions in life wherein we try to help minimize suffering in various ways.

  But i'm aware that unfortunately, for humanity, suffering is often the greatest catalyst to consciousness expansion.  I've seen it in my own life, in others, in history.  Difficulties, friction, challenge, polarity contrasting, etc. may be some of the reasons of why so many of us come here to begin with. 

    Perhaps related to my post so far, is a dream message i had wherein i knew for certain that Yeshua wanted these civilization altering changes to happen, and did so because they would help enable him and others to facilitate and fulfill the spiritual transformation of this world. 

  In a way, this dream message reminds me of Bob Monroe's interesting conversation with "He/She" and their talk about a  world wide/humanity plan of change, of facilitating that wouldn't involve belief systems or previous institutions (like military, religion, etc), but necessity, and Bob thinking that necessity sounded like severe stuff and He/She confirmed Bob's perception and replied, "That's why the waiting, the time will come." 

  It sounds like He/She is fully aware of the probability factors, and recognizes the necessity for such seeming extremism or collective challenge. 

  It's difficult to know and understand that challenge and suffering is sometimes a necessity (both for oneself and others).  I went through this somewhat recently, when i invited my youngest brother into my home because he didn't have a place to go.   My brother has a lot of issues, and most of them stem from a lack of self and other love essentially.   Because of that, he tends to be self and/or other destructive. 

   I gave a lot, i was patient oft, i tried and usually saw and focused on the positive in him. 

    Yet, time and time again he took advantage of kindness, calmness, and patience and refused to take responsibility, let alone any decency or respect. 

  With sadness i eventually came to the deep realization that he needed to really experience hitting the bottom and not have someone support him, in order for him to grow.  Essentially i realized he needed to really suffer, even more so than he was, in order to want to heal.   I had to stop giving a more Feminine, nurturing love and give a tough love.

    The above applies to humanity as a whole right now.  So many of us have long taken so much for granted.  It's time to go back to basics.

  I wish there was another way that had the same outcome of a potential for so much growth, but it doesn't seem like there is one, unless enough of us willingly change so much about our selves, our lifestyles, and our interactions with others.  Particularly so, those in positions of much material power and influence. 

  Yeshua wept for Jerusalem and for knowing the destruction that would and needed to take place for it, yet he knew it needed to happen.  Consequences are necessary, and it's one of the reasons of why we have this world, since consequences are particularly intense and highlighted here. 

 

If people on this forum believe or wish to believe that some sort of planetary upheaval and cataclysmic social change is due to occur, and that great planetary suffering will precede a time of better living, then that is one thing.

Relishing in other people's suffering in anticipation of one's belief being fulfilled, is another thing.

We can all see two issues here, although some may pretend they can't.

And it is evident in Bob's post that he is relishing. In reference to the riots and the stock-market crash he calls on others to celebrate, sit back and enjoy, share his ecstasy with what is happening right now, and enjoy the ride, because he says Christmas has arrived.

Those of you inclined to similar feelings as Bob about what is happening may try to defend yourselves by saying he isn't relishing in the riots - but he is, and you are similar to him.

Those people who are watching their beloved city be burnt and looted, who have had their property and livelihoods ruined, who have had loved ones bashed, stabbed and murdered, are not impressed by Bob's calling on others to celebrate and share his ecstasy with what is happening. Neither are they impressed with those of you who defend his words.

As said, anticipating other's suffering, even for beneficial change, is one thing, getting emotionally high when that suffering is witnessed is another thing.

Several of you criticise me for calling Bob a fruitcake, and suggest I am not being loving, as I encourage others to be. Is that the best you can do to criticise me? I say you are fruitcakes too. What is worst to do, to celebrate other's sufferings and call on others to sit back and enjoy, or, to call those who do, a fruitcake? Your scale of what is right and wrong is askew. I am not saying Bob is a better or worse man than I, but in this instant, he has misstepped and put his foot in poo. We all do it from time to time. You should see some of the blunders I have made. 

I don't choose words according to current or collective convention. I am not in the "I'm a good-person competition", that most of those in the western world are indulging in. I have no desire to portray myself as one of the "good people"; as spiritual, loving, or PC. I do not choose my words that way.  What I am inside, I know. I don't care what others think. They get it wrong anyway. (I'm much worse than what they think) I don't dislike Bob, I don't not love him. He is just a fellow like me. I have spoken harshly to/about him, like I have with others - it does not mean I have any animosity or dislike towards him. For all you know, I might even like him, and like some of you too. Mind you, I find one of you as irritating today as he was many many centuries ago. But that is as much me as he.    

For all you fruitcakes know, (I'll repeat that just in case you are reading too fast and missed it, fruitcakes, fruitcakes, fruitcakes) I might know as much, or more or less, than what you think you know about what is looming ahead. But unlike you, I might not care for "information" and "messages", as you term it, about supposed future events. Instead I might prefer to gain my understanding by a more reliable first hand method, and treat information from every source as only information, not knowledge. But regardless of what hardships I may or may not see coming upon others and on the world, (for that is my business and I share it with no one) I see no reason to enjoy it or celebrate it when it comes, as Bob calls upon his friends to do.

And besides, little if anything is certain. Bob's fancying that he and you lot are going to be some sort of "most sought after" leaders/teachers/helpers in a post apocalyptic better world is just more feelgood fantasies, which you lot are prone to.

The future is neither here nor there. We have our work to attend to, day by day. We should attend to it, each day, like it is the last day and there is no future, or like the future is doubtful. Then we can keep the here and now in right perspective. 

Are you going to waste your days waiting and fantasizing that society will collapse and the world will change to suit your fancies of you being some sort of forerunner of a new world system. Thousands of people have wasted valuable potential and living-time by doing exactly that, when they would better have ignored their fancied future and concentrated on doing all they could for their families, colleagues, neighbours and community now.      

Does your "information" and your "messages" about the future, that you put credence in, slow down your present practical work and usefullness, does it entice you to sit back and not contribute usefully to your community right now, each day - because you think your time is coming. Is it slowing your progress and your active helpfulness. It is easy to slow down another by feeding them fantasies about themself and about their future time of usefulness. And of what worth is the here and now, if all this is going to be destroyed and a truer time of our work and usefulness is to come? Such an idea when imparted to others, induces them to postpone their usefulness and the work they could be doing now. Don't be fooled. 

Crossbow,

I can feel your anger.  Good.  Good.  Hate leads to the dark side (Evil Emperor Doc).

But seriously, you went off on a rant based on a posting.  You can read Bob's posting however you like it.  Take this paragraph for example:

"There will be changes, most of us will be affected in one way or another, most of them will be positive with a few growing pains along the way.    The Gloom and Doom scenarios ain't gonna happen, so you might as well sit back and enjoy.    The ride is about to get exciting."


Hmmmm.....he doesn't seem to be reveling in the misery of others there.  Crossbow, everything isn't always so cut and dry.  Bob was mentioning his vision, posting it, but not looking for recruits or telling people not to live in the here and now. 

One story I've become recently fond of is this from a friend of mine:

The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity answered: “Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."

I think you and I see this simple truth.  Yet you also mention things you feel are productive in society.  In the end, I have discovered (for me personally), that it is not just the physical accomplishments that matter, it is how we interact with and treat other people that matters most.  Looked at from a strictly Western perspective, we could say that the discovery of electricity, technological advancements such as innovations in agriculture and medicine, may be seen as "real accomplishments."  Yet when we shed our bodies, we don't take those accomplishments with us, nor do we take our house, car, etc.

We have to live in society, and we all agree that being productive is important, but what we define as productivity may differ greatly from person to person. 

Despite our differences, there are certain commonalities that still apply.  The "golden rule," for one (do not do unto others as you would not have them do to you, or more commonly - do unto others as you would have them do unto you).

I have been most moved by Howard Storm's near death experience (thanks to Don on this board for showing it to me), in which he mentioned a life review in which he was surrounded by loved ones, beings of light.  They stood with him during his life review.  As he saw his material accomplishments, winning an award, getting a good grade in school, he felt a great sense of pride, but got a neutral response from the light beings.  As they witnessed him performing a kindness to another or acting out of love, there was a true sense of celebration.  It seemed to Howard, that once rid of the body, certain accomplishments which are so seemingly important in Western society are fairly meaningless. 

A person may become a learned scholar in one area, plumbing the depths until he/she is as expert in it as anyone.  It is a testament to the human spirit and would mind and will can accomplish.  But it is what he/she does with that knowledge that really matters. 

I have strayed from my original point, which is that Bob likely did not want to come off as basking in the glow of the suffering of others.  He was merely putting his vision out there, and trying to share.

He obviously hit a nerve.  Sorry for the trouble across the pond, my friend.


Matthew

DocM wrote on Aug 12^th, 2011 at 7:32am:

Crossbow, I can feel your anger.  Good.  Good.  Hate leads to the dark side (Evil Emperor Doc). But seriously, you went off on a rant based on a posting.  You can read Bob's posting however you like it.  ..... ....I have strayed from my original point, which is that Bob likely did not want to come off as basking in the glow of the suffering of others.  He was merely putting his vision out there, and trying to share. He obviously hit a nerve.  Sorry for the trouble across the pond, my friend. Matthew

Feel my anger can you, Mathew? I can't. To me life's a hard played game. And hate? None mate. Just playing hard. And if you were here with me you'd see there's a good splash of humour and good will.   

I read Bob's post not just from my point of view, but from others too, who are unlike yourselves or ourselves. Believe it or not, I do understand Bob's feelings, and those who may share them.

Yes, I am sure Bob did not wish to come across as he did. I suspect he can see he could have chose his words more carefully. That's life. As I said above - I have made blunders too, and far worse than this one of Bob's. That doesn't mean someone shouldn't get stuck into him over it. We all need a clout from our mates now and then, me included. besides, I wasn't talking just to Bob, but to all those who tend to get too excited over such things, and to those who may be wasting time and energy focusing on the future and not the here and now. 

Yes, I suppose he hit a nerve, but I know he didn't mean to. London has memories for me. I love that old city. It has given rise to so many great ideas, so much that is good, and that all of us throughout the English speaking democracies have benefited from. It is our mother city. I wonder how the world would be today if there had never been a London.

Even so, it is not so much from a personal angle that I have come at Bob's post. I have sought to widen the view of the subjects of visions and beliefs of future events, emotional reactions to them, here-and-now living, and the possibility of detrimental interference from hindering sources masquerading as helpful.

Thank you for your condolensces, though I am not across the pond, but behind you, across the Pacific.

crossbow    

Crossbow,

"Even so, it is not so much from a personal angle that I have come at Bob's post. I have sought to widen the view of the subjects of visions and beliefs of future events, emotional reactions to them, here-and-now living, and the possibility of detrimental interference from hindering sources masquerading as helpful."

Can you see that he might be relishing in change rather than suffering in the first post? I don't know, but that's what I read.

Hindering sources masquerading as helpful, that's my view of any religion currently on earth, the full and the watered down versions of them - to me. You and any others are of course free, and should be if it currently wasn't an option, to completely disregard that and go with what you think is right. I know from myself, and others, that respecting others' beliefs is trickier than speaking the words and follow it with action, and to truly follow that, 100%. Keeping the arrogant uppity nose hidden away in a far to reach place does mean it's still there. Having the courage to see one's dark side helps too in order to recognize one's personal flaws. I've done and do my share of treading in the salad, but I continue to work towards that goal, true respect, as I feel it's a very important trait.

Crossbow said: "And it is evident in Bob's post that he is relishing. In reference to the riots and the stock-market crash he calls on others to celebrate, sit back and enjoy, share his ecstasy with what is happening right now, and enjoy the ride, because he says Christmas has arrived."

Recoverer responds: I didn't get the same feeling as you when I read what Bob said. Because I can understand where he is coming from I understand that he isn't some mean spirited wacko who gets off on the difficulties of others. Because some of us care about the difficulties people have been going through for generations and will continue to go through if things don't change in a significant way, some of us look forward to Earth changes even if some of them end up being difficult.

Regarding some of us being fruitcakes, well, I like fruitcake, so I don't feel insulted. :D :) :D

Crossbow asked: Does your "information" and your "messages" about the future, that you put credence in, slow down your present practical work and usefullness, does it entice you to sit back and not contribute usefully to your community right now, each day - because you think your time is coming. Is it slowing your progress and your active helpfulness.

Recoverer responds: Not at all. I figure there are some people who are waiting around doing nothing waiting for Earth changes just as there are people waiting for a rapture to happen. But some of us are wise and caring enough to keep applying ourselves in a useful way even though we understand that significant Earth changes are likely to take place.

In fact, such changes have already begun and any positive effort we put in helps with the process. The most important effort people can make is to change inwardly because until they do the outer won't change in a manner that is significant.

Crossbow asked:
Quote:

Does your "information" and your "messages" about the future, that you put credence in, slow down your present practical work and usefullness, does it entice you to sit back and not contribute usefully to your community right now, each day - because you think your time is coming. Is it slowing your progress and your active helpfulness.

  I echo what Recoverer said.  Some of us are aware and mature enough to apply self in the present, even when we have been given glimpses to probable future scenarios which indicate everything we are used to will change and dramatically so. 

  I know i could do more for others and my community, but my lack is not based on or caused by those above glimpses or messages, but from a general lack of attunement to PUL and to too much selfishness.  I've yet to create a habit of giving and being love as my teacher did and does. 

   In any case, it's our try's and our intentions which are more counted to us as spiritual gain or loss, rather than all the specific actions and developments which unfold in our lives. 

   One way that i try to help out is through my job, wherein i work with people who have disabilities, often children--some of whom have difficult personalities as would be considered by most, and require a lot of patience, calmness, and love based intentions to effectively work with.  I work closely with them on a day to day basis. 

   This job doesn't pay very much (by American standards at least), but since i believe it is important, i stick with it.  I'm also involved with some meditation groups wherein i've found i have some rather different perspectives, focuses, and beliefs than most in same (most are attached to organized Eastern sourced belief systems), but found self as a channel to have a positive, though largely silent effect, through my practice of attuning to love and/or gratitude during meditation. 

 

crossbow wrote on Aug 12^th, 2011 at 6:51am:

If people on this forum believe or wish to believe that some sort of planetary upheaval and cataclysmic social change is due to occur, and that great planetary suffering will precede a time of better living, then that is one thing. Relishing in other people's suffering in anticipation of one's belief being fulfilled, is another thing.

Now I get you Crossbow, disregard my previous post although I think you probably have already  :).

I wasn't trying to glorify the riots either, they shouldn't happen but if things were right in the first place then they wouldn't happen at all, that is what I was trying to say. Also I was speaking from a here and now point of view which has nothing to do with earth changes but the decline of a great nation over not so many years.

Such is life.

Andy

Well, it seems we have thrashed out that little matter, and maybe come around to understanding each other better, or near enough anyway.

I think we might even have each learnt something about our self from that little tussle. 

I will re-read the thread in a week or two with a fresh mind and see what more I can learn from it.

I have a bit to do this week, so I'll drop in and harass you blokes some more in a little while.   ;) 

Thank you for putting up with me folks, especially to you Bob.

What a shame we can't have these debates around a dinner table. What fun that would be. We could have fruitcake for desert.

And Biker Chick, I'd like you to sit next to me - as long as you haven't got a willy.  :-*  

Hmm, I wonder if Justin's cat is vegetarian?

Crossbow asked: Hmm, I wonder if Justin's cat is vegetarian?

Recoverer responds: At the very least Justin's dog is. Get it? ;) That cat/dog thing.

Justin,

"I had to stop giving a more Feminine, nurturing love and give a tough love."

Balance instead of the light and dark dance.

How do you view the situation with your brother in light of being unconditional/turning the other cheek?

  Hi Volu,

  I don't think that unconditional love and tough love are mutually exclusive concepts. 

   What matters is the inner intent behind or within the "actions", and if your intent is one of helpfulness to the other person or people, then this at times calls for gentle, more passive actions or non reactions and at times for more active, fiery, firm, intense actions.

  This is well shown by the life and example of Yeshua.  Many times he was strongly criticized or put down, or others attempted to beat him physically, and he did nothing to defend self--he even let himself be falsely accused, tortured, and murdered.  Yet at other times, he showed a more fiery, critical, firm, and/or truth defending side.  But, in the latter case, it wasn't about defending or given vent to the little self. 

  While the outer was rather different, the inner was the same, there was an intent to be helpful in a broader and more long term and collective sense irregardless of how it affected self, and surely he was aware the kind of reactions he would receive before he went into his public role--he knew for a long while it was a strong probability that he would die an unpleasant death at the hands of others.

  That's one way to know if something comes more from a more PUL attunement or more from a fear and selfish based attunement.   How much self, the little self is involved in the equation.  When it's not about self and self is not "reacting" based on self or "ego" aspects, then it's more likely coming more from an attunement to PUL, and vice versa when it's more about self and self's not liking, not tolerating, finding unpleasurable, etc.

  In my case with my brother, there was a variable mix (it's somewhat rare for me to only be coming from a place of pure attunement to PUL), but essentially and more consistently than not, i had the intention of helpfulness towards him, and most of the time it wasn't about self.  I could have gone on enduring the disrespect, but i realized it wasn't doing him any good in the long run. 

  Or more simply put, sometimes a child or someone acting like a child (in the immature sense) does need to be reprimanded in some way, but not out of self anger, selfishness, fear, or feelings of intolerance on part of the self doing the reprimanding. 

  A number of years ago on this forum, some 6 or 7 or so i believe, i went through a brief phase wherein i was acting very childish on this forum by being negative, extreme, and disruptive to others here, and Bruce Moen temporarily banned me from the forum.  At the time, i wasn't particularly happy or appreciative about this.

  But looking back, it was what i needed and it was right of him to do so.

   I believe it's quite possible that Bruce Moen could have seen and considered me in the light of PUL, and still administer this "tough love" knowing that it was necessary for both me and the forum at the time.  And knowing that maybe it was the wake up call that i needed at the time to help reorient self back to a more positive and centered space.  I don't think it was at all "personal" for him when he decided this, but he was only thinking about the bigger picture, the higher good of the forum as a collective and the higher good for me as well. 

    If he had allowed me to stay during this unusually extreme cycle of uncenteredness for me, perhaps it would have taken a bit longer to get self out of it.  Looking back, i know my intentions at the time of this extremist cycle were not particularly positive and PUL based. I was acting out of hurt and uncenteredness, i was angry, and i was lashing out.   

 

Justin,

Ok, I also feel that saying no/breaking the pattern/rejection sometimes makes the other person reflect about what they've been doing. And that's why I scratch the head about unconditional, and think it's quite "self destructive" to allow tilted personal situations to carry on. I've been there many times and have later wondered why anybody would put this mode on a pedestal. Kinda like strapping a t-shirt, size extra small, on a walrus who's on a daily diet of bacon. Joking about it but it's quite painful, mentally though.

Thought the walrus in a t-shirt would make a nice segway into the topic, I don't believe like Bob that signing any petitions will change the system. But one can reject parts of the system by refusing to participate, by making individual choices. And unlike Bob I'm not excited by the possibilities laying ahead for earth life, though doom and gloom isn't the right expression neither. But I am excited about leaving physical life behind, for ever, in favour of non-physical life. What I long for now more than anything is an extended stay in f27 and then go back to my disc.

  We have a certain amount of freedom of choice, but as so often happens, we find our perspectives and desires change as we change. 

  In any case, wishing the best for you and your spiritual growth whatever that entails. 

Volu wrote on Aug 13^th, 2011 at 3:27pm:

Justin, Ok, I also feel that saying no/breaking the pattern/rejection sometimes makes the other person reflect about what they've been doing. And that's why I scratch the head about unconditional, and think it's quite "self destructive" to allow tilted personal situations to carry on. I've been there many times and have later wondered why anybody would put this mode on a pedestal. Kinda like strapping a t-shirt, size extra small, on a walrus who's on a daily diet of bacon. Joking about it but it's quite painful, mentally though.

   The whole 'turn the other cheek' saying attributed to Yeshua does talk about and address PUL, but it all has to be taken in context. 

  Yeshua was born in a time and place wherein "an eye for an eye" was a very strong societal and cultural belief.  There was little understanding, let alone a collective livingness of a more universal, PUL type love.

   So, he sometimes said dramatic things designed to grab the attention of the peoples and attitudes of those times. 

  I don't think he literally meant that it's always helpful to let someone have their way with you or others without ever any consequences or what not. 

  But, really, one can find his teachings more in his examples, which changed according to the need.   Contrary to some portrayals, Yeshua was not a super Feminine, always laid back and gentle kind of guy. 

   Sometimes he spoke strong words to others, sometimes he took strong actions for principles.   

  Yet, the important point is and was, there was ever the inner intention of helpfulness and of care for everyone--even those he was speaking strongly too--especially in terms of their spiritual growth, because as people spiritually mature and expand, they become happier and happier. 

  That is what PUL is really and truly about, a more universal and real concern for the more long term happiness of others, both in an individual and collective sense.  It's about recognizing that Oneness is a reality, and what you do to others, affects the Whole and you with it, because it's essentially and fundamentally One. 

  In the long term, it makes more sense having positive and helpful intentions towards others (wanting to see them happy, whole, and healthy on all levels--especially spiritually, because it's most affecting for all levels of existence), because it helps both the Whole and you.   In a way, it's partially a "selfish" thing, but not in the usual way and meaning of selfish.   It's a big picture selfishness. 

  If Yeshua was here in our times, perhaps he would speak in a bit more complex, relative, and less dramatic way, for there is a little bit more openness, collectively speaking, to the basics of love?