Can anyone help me here, i have read from many Christians that we are nearing end times, one of the big signs being the arab spring. Also Saint Malachy's prophecy about the last Pope. Things like the Tribulation, Antichrist and rapture scare the heck out of me

Hi jdee.
The saying: 'there is nothing to fear but fear itself' holds true.
The dark pessimism often has an ulterior lining, but needs fear/ guilt/ remorse to trigger a response.

The horrific global mess of WW1 with its disastrous effect on so many blighted lives and not forgetting the brutal carnage of animals, must have appeared similar to today, at that time.
This too, will pass.

Hello Jdee,
Christians come in all sorts. Don't let those funny ones disturb you. They can get a little side tracked at times. (I am a Christian too - have been for quite a while...) I hope it helps you for me to assure you there is nothing to fear, most especially about the supposed end of the world. Christianity is about love and helpfulness, not about scaring people by telling them the end of the world is coming. Right through history fear mongers of all persuasions have been saying the end of the world is coming, but wars, famines, plagues, catastrophes, have come and gone, millenniums have rolled over, dates with repeated digits have passed, comets have flown by, planets have lined up and unlined, astrological configurations have occurred, etc, etc, etc, and always the fear mongers were running about saying the end of the world is nigh. They are doing the same now just as they always have done. They love to pretend their forecasting the end of the world is attributed to their having more wisdom, foresight or virtue than others. But all they really have more of is emotional reactionism. Such emotionally reactive types, whether they be Christians, Atheists, Environmentalists, or others, like to scare other people and threaten them with the world coming to an end.

The fear mongers have always been with us, and probably always will be. There are plenty of them amongst us at present, and due to social changes through the 1900's and a current pc society that encourages them, they have wound up at the forefront of social directing. It was not long ago that those who walked about saying the world is ending were seen as loonies; now they own the media, run our education systems, and have infiltrated politics.

Don't let the fear mongers disturb you, ignore their rumours and gossip about the world ending - or that it might end if we don't buy funny light bulbs. We can smile politely at them and let them have their little fear fantasy. They can be a source of amusement that can bring a little humour to our days.

Rather than swinging with the emotionally reactive ones, we are better to cultivate a composed and reasonable approach to life, value facts, truth, and reason, and be kind to those around us - even to the fear mongers, bless their hearts.

   ;)     

I am not a Christian, though I have great respect for the teachings of Jesus and I guess that I feel that even if he were some kind of god he would not require some kind of obedience to him. That would make him more like a human king. It just doesn't jive with my impressions of him, if he existed and most likely he did. That said I would completely concur with what crossbow states. There is always a lunatic fringe out there that gets an ego high from predicting the end times. I am certain that this world is a virtual reality that will endure as long as it is beneficial to consciousness to evolve.

jdee190 wrote on Jul 4^th, 2011 at 5:33pm:

Can anyone help me here, i have read from many Christians that we are nearing end times, one of the big signs being the arab spring. Also Saint Malachy's prophecy about the last Pope. Things like the Tribulation, Antichrist and rapture scare the heck out of me

  Whether or not these "predictions" are true or not, is not really what's important here. 

What's important is that you learn how to deal with your fears.  One of the ways you can do this, is by learning experientially that what you are is NOT your body, that you are a consciousness that is eternal. 

   So, should anything happen that destroys your physical vehicle that you are temporarily using, YOU will still survive.

   If this is true, what is there to really fear then?   Bruce Moen teaches some effective tools and methods to figure out that the nonphysical exists and that your consciousness exists beyond your physical body.


   While many of these Christian predictions are off (in my experience of seeing/knowing psychically), there are more reliable and verified type psychic sources which do talk about  Earth changes, though none of these ever say it's the "end of the world". 

Rather these sources say that our civilization structure will collapse under the weight of it's destructiveness and that there will be some pretty significant geological, solar, and cosmic changes, and a number of sources have said this has happened many times in the past.   Well, humanity is still here despite these past civilization collapses and Earth changes, and if you could see into the future probabilities, you would see that these coming collapses are Phoenix type events. 

  Out of the ashes of the old and decayed, will humanity rise to heights it hasn't collectively seen in many thousands and thousands of years. 

This degree of collective spiritual development is greatly to be desired, and i for one welcome whatever will facilitate these kind of positive, long term developements.

   Can you imagine a world, a still basically physical world, our Earth, wherein all the humans alive treat each other with kindness, respect, and everyone experiences a peace and inner joy.  A world free of all the inhumanity that we daily enact towards each other. 

This is what is probably coming, but in order for this to happen, all the corrupt power structures, the world banking system, the military complexes, all the greedy, selfish, fear based institutions and groups etc. all have to be brought low, and all has to start afresh with no destructive and materialistic chains around the neck of humanity.

  Just simply a rebirth, a regeneration.  Yeshua (Jesus) did speak of these coming developments, but unfortunately, like with many of his messages, they have been twisted.

  I recommend communicating with him directly about this and any other subject, as my own experience has taught me that he is one of the most knowledgeable, aware, clearly perceiving, and wise Beings out there.   It's because he is truly pure Love incarnate and personified (and nothing expands perception and awareness like attunement to PUL).   (Some of the earth changes info that i have received, have been from him). 

How to do you know we are eternal? I need some help with this because people like Richard Dawkins and Stephen Hawking have ruined my faith in the afterlife :(

As far as I'm concerned Dawkins and Hawking stating that the afterlife doesn't exist is similar to a fish in a pond stating that the top of Mount Everest doesn't exist. How would a fish know about what exists at the top of Mound Everest?

I believe it is completely irresponsible and "IGNORANT" for them to scare people with their intellect-based nonsense. I doubt that either of them is humble enough to question their limited way of questioning things. People with high IQs sometimes become so impressed with themselves that they can't question their beliefs. Instead, they use their intellects to fortify their false beliefs. As far as they are concerned there is no way somebody could know better than they know. They'll find out soon enough and have some regrets.

Regarding the Book of revelations, some Biblical scholars believe that it pertains to what was going on during the time period when it was written. John, the author of Revelations, had to write in a symbolic way so the Romans wouldn't be able to figure out what he was tyring to communicate to the Christians from the time period.  For example, the seven heads of the dragon refer to seven hills in Rome and seven kings.  The ten horns refer to ten future kings and ten provinces of the Roman Empire.

The antichrist that is referred to with the number 666 is actually Emperor Nero Caesar. In Hebrew, Nero Caesar’s name was Nrwn Qsr – n,e,r,o,n; q,s,r. Archaeological findings show that a first century Hebrew spelling of Nero’s name provides the value of 666. Some Biblical manuscripts read 616. The difference between 666 and 616 isn’t the result of an accident, because the two aren’t similar in appearance in the original Greek. However, a strong case can be made that John (the author of Revelation), a Jew, used Hebrew in order to spell Nero’s name and resultantly came up with 616. It is hard to believe that it is just mere coincidence that whether you use 666 or 616 it is reasonable to conclude that Revelation 13:18 refers to Nero.

Going by the spirit messages I have received about Earth changes we'll go through some difficult times and then the World will become a very positive place.

When it comes to Earth changes and verfiable spirit information...

Recently I had a dream where I rode around on a bus with some people. We were very concerned about how hard it was raining.  Then there was a lady from India and she spoke to people about how bad the weather is (flooding and such). At some point after I got out of bed I searched the internet and found that on the very same morning an article about flooding in India had been posted (caused by Monsoons).

A couple of days later I was meditating and I was shown a map of Louisiana. On the map I could see my name (Albert). I wondered if it was being recommended that I move to Louisiana because of possible future flooding. So I looked up Louisiana news on the internet and found that a news article was just posted that spoke about flooding in Lousiana.  Such flooding became worse because a Levi had broke.

It is possible that change-related events will happen to an extent where quite often moving to another location won't help.

Hello, me again. :)

I'd like to add that somebody like Hawking might claim that he isn't afraid of the fact that he will some day die. Yeah, yeah, I also went through such a period of denial. I closed myself off from the part of myself that was concerned about my mortality. Fortunately, I reached the point where I allowed myself to be aware of my suppressed concern. After many experiences I am now certaint that the afterlife exists. Thank goodness I decided to find out because it sure makes a difference! :) :) :)

jdee190 wrote on Jul 5^th, 2011 at 3:54pm:

people like Richard Dawkins and Stephen Hawking have ruined my faith in the afterlife :(

Jdee,

Until Hawkins, Dawkins etc can give me and countless others an answer to why a perfectly healthy, happy baby can just stop breathing one night for no reason, then as far as I'm concerned they are just spewing hot air.

They go on like we've discovered EVERYTHING there is to be discovered when we haven't and I'll hedge my bets that we haven't even scratched the surface yet.

Sudden Infant Death Syndrome is the biggest killer of babies in the U.K about 400 a year and those statistics don't even count the babies over 1 year old, my son was over one so he will not be in this years, I wouldn't like to guess how high the figure is if they were. Lets just say I've heard of a lot of people who have had it happen over 1 year old.

Also, this is something they have been looking for, for over 50 years and found NOTHING.

There is a point to me saying this, we don't know all there is to know yet.

Also Dawkins and Hawkins should put their "intellect" into doing something useful like helping people instead of trying to prove religion is bs by using their own religion, especially Dawkins.

Okay, medicine isn't their area, but neither is religion or the afterlife for that matter.

Jdee, I'm sorry for my tone I'm not attacking you here and this is not a knee jerk reaction to what has happened to me and my family, it's the honest truth, nothing more nothing less.

Andy

Jdee,

Let me clarify my previous post,

What I am saying is not that I disagree or am against science itself but I don't like how some of it is done. They are not totally at fault either imho as the media are as much to blame for jumping on what they say to publish a story to garner more attention for themselves. They love nothing more than to cause people misery, I'm certain of this.

What I mean about the way some science is done is dishonesty, they don't like to admit that they could be wrong or that they simply don't know something. Some religious practices work the same too, which is why some people go from being churchgoers to atheists.

Science is like a religion to me because of the way people follow it and they won't take anything other than that seriously. They don't realise that they are just taking someone else's word for what they BELIEVE in, sheep is what they are. So tbh it's the followers who are more to blame than the scientists. It reminds me of religion.

I was a bit harsh on Hawking in my last post as the thing he said not long ago was him expressing his opinion, which he is more than entitled to do but the media blow it out of proportion and it all seems that he is the bad guy, he's not I do respect him, who wouldn't after what he has lived with for so long?

However, I won't apologise for saying this about Richard Dawkins. He is in the same league as Harold Camping and  any other nutjob out there in the public eye imo. He loves the sound of his own voice too much for me and I have met many people like this in my short life. They seem to think they are above other people and their opinions are better than everyone else's, they're not. To me everyone is equal bar murderers, rapists etc.

It doesn't matter if you are the wealthiest man in the world or the poorest, it's what's inside that counts. Also just because someone who is in the public eye is said to be intelligent due to their "work" doesn't make it so. Intelligence is so much more than that.

Intelligence can't be measured, it is widely accepted that it can but no it can't.

Just because someone is good at one thing doesn't mean they're good at something else, I know a lot about fixing cars but that doesn't mean I can go and operate on somebody or work at NASA, does it?

Dawkins should change his surname to cranium and start using the shorter version of his forename  ;) :).

Please don't take my posts as an attack at you for asking questions, there's nothing wrong with them, they are perfectly reasonable.

In another post I mentioned self belief, what I meant was see yourself as equal, even to the so called elite, then you will start to see the world for how it really is, from your own point of view and not someone else's. You're still young but be patient and it will start to come in time, I wasn't like this from birth or even at your age, it takes time.

Andy

Andy:

I can relate to what you said. On the one hand I don't want to come down to hard on a person such as Hawking, on the other hand it annoys me that they scare some people by getting them to believe that the afterlife doesn't exist.

I suppose a guy like Hawking has the right to be confused for a while just like the rest of us have the right to be confused for a while.

Recoverer,

You are right there as someone in his position does know that people will believe him even though it's just his opinion and nothing more.

Yes he should be more careful in what he says but on the other hand the media don't help the situation, also the people who believe it when they don't like it should know better really.

Just my take on it and tbh I go easy on him due to his predicament, it's not a good situation to be in you must admit?

Andy

Cheers for your replies people, Andy, you seem like a sound guy, i come from Glasgow, Scotland by the way. I am just a normal boy about to turn 18 whos into football, boxing and going out for a drink with pals etc but it is my own fault i ended up in this mess. I just want their to be an afterlife and to see my family and friends again when i die, no afterlife just sounds sickening. Also Saint Malachys prophecy has scared me.

I neverr used to be like this 4 a few months ago, i shouldn't have read all that garbage

jdee190 wrote on Jul 5^th, 2011 at 3:54pm:

How to do you know we are eternal? I need some help with this because people like Richard Dawkins and Stephen Hawking have ruined my faith in the afterlife :(

  I can't really help you with this, and neither can anyone else here.  You need to have your own expereinces.

  I can tell you that i've had experiences, which while they did not prove to me that i'm eternal, since i haven't experienced eternity consciously, or if i have, i've forgotten it, i've had experiences which have shown me that my consciousness existed before this life. 

  I've had verified "past life" info and experience.   So, i imagine that if my consciousness has survived the life and death of other bodies, then chances are most likely it will survive this life and death, and probably is or at least comes close to being "eternal". 

Jdee,
I think it might help you to read some of the books and articles that are out there on this subject. I think Bruce Moen's books were especially helpful (to me) in presenting the issues surrounding the afterlife in a clear and convincing manner. Your journey is just beginning, and knowedge plus experience equals wisdom (or it can!). You might also enjoy some of the books on Near Death Experiences, as they seem to give the most immediate "evidence" of our souls' survival.  The more you learn, the more exciting it gets. A last thought: My mother (who is over there in the spirit world now) used to say to me, when I was anxious about something, "don't worry, whatever you are feeling now, it will change. Just give it a bit of time."  Sounds silly, but its true. Fear and anxiety won't last. They are not your natural state of being. Peace and happiness are your natural state. Go and play football, and hang out with your friends! On-line, I recommend Victor Zammit's site. Just Google his name and it will take you there. Lots of info there.

Thank You everyone for your replies, it has helped.

I read an atricle many months ago by richard dawkins and he says near death experiences are caused by too much oxygen in the blood? something like that anyway

Dawkins is basing that idea on the fighter pilots experiencing something akin to an NDE when that are met with extreme G-forces. If the brain thinks it is dying, which it is in that case, who's to say they aren't experiencing an NDE? Chris Carter rebukes that theory quite well in his lastest book on NDEs I've posted about it a few times.

Because I've had an experience that is similar to an NDE (absent a near death event), I'm able to understand why some NDErs are certain that they experienced something other than a hallucination.

During my experience I understood that what I was experiencing is what reality is truly about, not life in this temporary World. When such a knowing happens it is very clear.


Beau wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 2:05pm:

Dawkins is basing that idea on the fighter pilots experiencing something akin to an NDE when that are met with extreme G-forces. If the brain thinks it is dying, which it is in that case, who's to say they aren't experiencing an NDE? Chris Carter rebukes that theory quite well in his lastest book on NDEs I've posted about it a few times.

Hi, jdee190. WherrabootsinGlesgauryefrae? Ah'm anauld soothsideranhuvbeenlookinintae suchmatters fura loat oyears. Dinnae worry.

Most of the advices deal with the symptom, which is merely a sign or an indication of something. Dawkins or Hawkins haven't ruined anything. The root, and the elephant in the room, is - reading material that makes you afraid.

Is the dish tastes awful, why keep eating? The italian chef loves his meatballs and spaghetti and may see afterlife as a burger. Are anyone here actually surprised by this?

If one can't handle something - leave it alone and get on with it.

Recoverer,
"I believe it is completely irresponsible and "IGNORANT" for them to scare people with their intellect-based nonsense. I doubt that either of them is humble enough to question their limited way of questioning things."

Using intellect to question things - if material feels fearful to you, it may not actually be fearful for the presenters, but their opinions. Can you see that you may actually be the fearful one?

Take a notion popularized here - you, part of an eternal being, can die. Ok. So what if bruce don't get that spirits can wink out of levels or that thought forms (not entities) do disperse. I don't blame him for having those views, and I can carry on and even whistle a tune.

"As far as they are concerned there is no way somebody could know better than they know."

That just about applies to myself and everybody I've met, you included.

"They'll find out soon enough and have some regrets."

Guilt - fear light - now with 15% less omph, but the 15% is accounted for by adding 15% of the the same old same old with new shiny and white clothing.

I think its a good idea to face your fears, but sometimes one has to give that a rest for sure. I read what these guys have to say sometimes and my problem is that I tend to at least half believe anything I read at the time I'm reading it and then I ponder for awhile or read someone's refute of what I just read. Lately I've gotten to where I can usually refute in my mind as I'm reading a materialist argument which is helpful, but I would not stop reading the other side's arguments because once you reach a point where you can refute as you read along the materialist stuff is not so scary. Only you can find out for yourself. I hope you don't let your fear hold you back.

Beau, good points.  I know exactly what you mean about being half persuaded by what you read, especially if the writer is articulate and seemingly well-reasoned.  For those like me who haven't yet attained the personal experience that others here have about the afterlife, but am convinced of it nonetheless, it can be disturbing to be swayed that way.  I keep reading and striving for personal experiences.  But after all, at the end of the day, whatever is going to happen, will happen.

The crux is that living a life on Earth as a human is designed to be convincingly temporary, real, and all there is. Death, and the threat of death, is meant to be convincing. The primary Earthly illusion - dying - enables the soul (after it has lived and died on Earth) to realise and become conscious of the fact that it lives and is immortal, of which it could not appreciate or comprehend before it had experienced a convincing life and death on Earth. Subsequent to and stemming from the primary illusion is a wide spectrum/gamut of earthly feelings that exist between, and as a result of, living and dying on Earth. Each and every feeling, sentiment, seeming reality and misconception on the spectrum/gamut of Earthly living enables the soul to realise and become conscious of a corresponding talent/ability/virtue that is innate within the spectrum of itself, of which it could not be aware of before it experienced its convincing opposite or lack of, on Earth. So I wouldn't be too concerned about not having experienced evidence of an afterlife - we are meant to be subject to a false reality. We usually only slowly and gradually become aware of its falseness and of the trueness behind the scenes, and of the relationship between the two. It is one of the most efficent teaching/unfoldment/self-realisation methods in the Universe. There are several sub-streams/classes within the Earth method/school, the larger ones being the various religions and races; others being the sciences, arts, philosophies, and wider group experiences. And each stream/class has its better and least better individual attitudes or means of travel/study. A way of moving along in any class is to believe in your own existence. Look into yourself, into the "I", and recognise that you the "I" exist as a central conscious entity. Delve into this and become more conscious and familiar with it - with your self. Together with exercising belief in your self, and gradually growing that belief in your self into knowledge of your self, also treat those around you kindly and fairly. This will help you whatever sub-stream/class you are in. It doesn't mean you'll have out of body experiences, but life will certainly be more interesting and enlightening, and your soul will feel like it is moving towards its fulfillment. Try it and see.          

Hi crossbow,

When I came to this site I  was living in alot of fear too. I expected I'd find this to be a fearful place. I also read Bruce Moen's books.

After about a month and one or two books I was surprised that no one was fearsome and that they were dealing with a wide range of experiences  without causing more fear!  So I read some more Moen books and the essays at the first of this site, and found that their positive experiences overcame my problems.

I hope you will have that experience too !
Betson

jdee: 

I say use the fear, ride it like a surf, don't let it overpower you, and it will take you through new doors.  These thoughts wouldn't have even occurred to you (along with these fears) if you weren't ready to embark on some new course of knowledge.  You will find out so many wondrous things if you keep asking questions and pushing forward!  Bob Monroe was afraid, too!  But it didn't stop him from pursuing Afterlife Knowledge!

If fear is like an ocean - gulp, gulp, but one's still swimming along with the golden shore in sight, it's perhaps more like a challenge that can be overcome, and enriched as a result. Hands sticking out of the water and it imo does more harm than good, being reckless. Getting a glimpse of the mountain doesn't mean you're ready to climb to the top, but sure, if you haven't tried you wouldn't know what it's about. End times isn't the basics for some who think they are bodies. Dense and heavy fear blocks out the calm and clarity one would otherwise have. Lighter subjects/the basics would then be one way of being able to cover more ground at a later stage. And one'll stay "defragmented". - 'What's OOBE?', 'What's it like being OOB?', 'Is there like a map for the afterlife?', and perhaps most importantly 'Who am I?'.

Jdee,

I think that we are sometimes scared of an 'end time' like we are scared of spooky stories when we are kids. We sometimes even like to thrill each other with the most dramatic stories we can imagine. But, even one ordinary life has its moments of sheer terror. There are moments in an ordinary life when one can be so frightened that your hair practically stands on end, and what I have found is that these moments seem to last forever. There is some other kind of sense that turns on in such an instance, and we experience life with full attention.

Imagine the very worst you can think of, and then imagine that there are other human beings there with you. What will be most important to you? Because you are a human being, you have inner strength you just cannot imagine yet. You come from a long line of ancestors who lived through turbulent and frightening times. You are not just a piece of junk that happened to fall onto the planet but a specialized creature who will know what is most important when the time comes.

Not only are we humans survivors here. We are survivors of our own human experience, and our minds have the ability to experience more than one 'timeline', more than one 'lifetime', in fact, an entire universe in one moment.

Think about what it might mean to share the 'mind of God' -- in whatever way feels right to you. What would it feel like to be part of something much greater than what you perceive as 'you' in this moment. Each of us has this capability. We have infinite potential. What matters is that we dream about what we really love, what inspires us to continue in this life, to take that risk.

There will never be a more beautiful day than this day. There is infinite potential for love in this day. When we stop fighting with what is natural, we find that there are gifts to be found in each niche, no matter where we plant our feet. Each will find his way.

Here on this site, we maintain hope that after death is simply our next life, in an afterlife which we help to create and maintain. Possibly, another life here, possibly not. But what I have studied over years leads me to believe that there is much more than our minds can see and understand in our present state of being.

To be 'scared' is also a step away from being in awe, from being in state of wonder and curiosity. The more still we can become, the more wonders we are able to notice. So, just be bright. Shine your light.

Great post, b2.  Thanks for your eloquent sharing of your own wisdom.

Thank you b2. Although you addressed it to Jdee, I appreciate it as well. I especially appreciate the fourth paragraph.

And thank you too Betson, for your hope-wish for me. Although I wonder if my post might have been misunderstood. When typing it I was not aware of having any fear, but rather, of suggesting the teaching effect of fear (and other Earthly conditions) upon the soul. Regardless, you prompted me to spend some time further identifying and looking at my fears, and solidifying their recognition into concrete thought so they can be (hopefully) adequately dealt with, or best managed. It is an interesting subject - fear. It can be so pervasive within us, permeating even through all our layers, and yet can be difficult for us to even be aware of its existence, let alone face it and deal with it. It seems there is more of it in me (in us all?) than I realised. I have spent a lot of time studying this subject in the past, from its physical level, and thought I had a pretty good handle on it, but I am glimpsing more now. We seem to have potential for it at every level of human existence, from lowest to highest and throughout the inbetween. I think it is playing a more significant role in human affairs and development than I was previously aware of. I intend to further study it, both generally and within myself. Thank you for your prompt.

dont be so scared jdee god will take u before the end times happen which is known as the rapture only the wicked will be left behind to face the end days love dianna123

"dont be so scared jdee god will take u before the end times happen which is known as the rapture only the wicked will be left behind to face the end days love dianna123"

The wicked will turn into dust, which will form the winds of change, and breathing will have a new dawn, albeit a slightly coughy new dawn dimmed by the dust of the wretched spawn. Wicked, eh? It will happen just in time for a nice cup of tea.

That, or barney the purple dinosaur will make his teachings known to all of humanity, though his teachings are really recipes, and they are all variations of yellow dinosaurs + different spices. Alas, there are no yellow ones, but coincidentally that cancels their yellow end times, and I'm only too happy to spread the good news! Hooray!

1. We can enjoy a little fear. That is understandable. It excites the nerves and sharpens the senses. Beyond a certain limit though, it becomes less fun and more unpleasant, and then requires our good management. We can also enjoy a laugh, gain a lighthearted lift, at someone else's minor missfortune. Often I have seen a fellow workman hit his thumb with a hammer, or turn about with a beam and hit another on the head. As long as no one is seriously injured then such little accidents can be funny, even uplifting and can put a sparkle in the day - when they happen to some else that is. And even when they happen to ourself they can be funny a little later, in retrospect. Of course when someone is seriously hurt or injured it is not funny at all. Most of us realise that, but some people don't; they are amused by awful things that happen to others. This unhealthy tendency can even creep into a person's "spirituality", to the extent that they feel uplifted, comforted, special, at the thought of others suffering at the consequences of their own wrongs, and themselves in comparison not having to suffer. Such an attitude is extreme and unhealthy. It is seen in certain people who think themselves amongst the best people just because they have stuck a certain label on themselves.    
   
2. Jesus Christ did not come to scare anyone, he came to teach us what is good for us. He brought good news. The news of love and forgiveness, and its potential for health, well being and human progress. In the Gospels we read where he made mention of the changes and cycles of life. The destruction of the old; its replacement with the new. This destruction and replacement is an ongoing, ever occurring process. It happens individually, socially, planetarily. The "rapture" or the "taking up" is happening now and everywhere to everyone, and always has been. Look at your own life and see how your old forms (values, priorities, thoughts, behaviours) crumble and fall apart as you progress through life and perceive and realise higher and better truths. You are not the same person you were 5 or 10 years ago. The old one is crumbling away, a new one is emerging. This happens even without our effort, as a result of life, error, consequence. But this change for better can be sped up, through being consciously practiced by the individual. Jesus taught us a system of rapid change and growth. He taught us the path of love, through Christ, the Spirit of Love for Earth. He taught that when one tunes one's heart with love, and breathes and lives in love for others, then rapid change occurs within the individual. The old character/buildings/forms/structure/values/thinking/behaviour crumble and fall away, and are replaced with new structures of light. This is the rapture, the taking up. It happens within.   

volu u shouldnt make fun of it i have learned so much about these thins and i believe what i write about it very strongly dianna123

Dianna, there are many boards out in cyber space that cater to that belief system. It will be a hard row to hoe to change anyone's opinion on it here.

okay boe i agree thanks love dianna123

Dianna, fellow Christians, and others who might be interested,

As a long time Christian and having held office in ministry, I am familiar with many of the faces and interpretations of our religion. It is indeed a true and beautiful religion. It has a wonderful essence of love, a layered system of education and understanding, with a myriad of avenues through its layers to its essence. Within its vast fields it has a path of rapid progress suitable for everyone. The code of living and relating to others, as laid out in the Founder's words, is the code of goodwill and love and helpfulness for others. It is the code of true progress. There is no higher code available for man to live by, and there never will be. Its achievements for individuals and for the world as a whole, in the 2000 years since its introduction has been phenomenal, a true wonder. Christianity, when understood and realised, is not a belief system; it is the truth.      

But to know its essence and its truth, we must dive below the superficial layers. Christianity is firstly a religion of the heart. And that is all it need be. It is just love. And love's assistant, helpfulness. 

That warm feeling that wells up in our heart and wishes well for others, whoever they may be - that is love. That love we feel for your fellow man is not our love, it is not made or conjured or generated by our self. It is a living energy, a living spirit that moves through our heart when we tune our heart with it. That spirit's name is Christ; it is the Spirit of Love for Earth. It envelopes our planet and flows through any heart that tunes itself with it. Jesus came to teach us how to utilise this spirit, how to tune our hearts with love. The example of the life of Jesus, his helpfulness to others, his goodwill and love for all, provides for us an automatic tuning mechanism by which our hearts are tuned with love. We only have to think of Jesus and of his teachings of love and goodwill, and Christ the spirit of love begins to move within and through our heart. And love is our pathway home, it is the draw of God; the radiance of God, the offspring of God. Ask for anything in Jesus name, in the name of Christ - in the spirit of love for others - and the forces of destiny align with you.       

Dive below the superficial layers of our religion, below the fences and rails that line the races, below the prongs and corners designed to hedge and corral those who can see no deeper than the surface of things. Look not so much at the structure but at where these structures prompt your feet to step. Peel back the layers of paint that form the image of Christianity that you see, and look behind the scenes at the living essence underneath.

Seek to access and understand Christianity through your heart, and this wonderful religion will come to life for you. And you will see that the teachings of Jesus - the way of love - is not a belief system at all, but is the true and only way to God.     

Christianity is a belief system. The teachings of Jesus, which is not Christianity, but common spiritual sense, are not a belief system. Those teachings I would liken to the great writings of Shakespeare, full of wonderful universality. The religion that spawned out of SOME of those teachings is still a belief system with an agenda to control the masses. Perhaps I just think the word "Christianity" is passe. It is Intent that guides us, and it is Intent that will ultimately determine spiritual evolution and not adherence to commandments.

Beau,

If it is a belief system, one would have to believe in it. That's the beauty of it. One does not have to believe in it. One only has to be exposed to its story and its teachings, and it begins to work its effect upon the individual.

It is unlike other religions. It is not a belief system. It is a formulae, a designed method of accelerated human progress. Compare the BC social values, human relations, and individual & collective consciousness of pagan Europe to India and China. Where did Europe stand then in comparison to those two great civilisations? After 2000 years of Christianity in Europe, compare Europe again to India and China. Are your eyes open or closed? 

The beauty of Christianity is that you don't have to believe in it. If you know of it, if you are exposed to its story and its teachings, you progress, your spirituality is accelerated. Even if you don't know of it, but others near you do, it has its effect upon your soul. All over the world are Atheists, Agnostics, Adherents to other religions, whose souls are accelerating for no other reason than the presence of Christianity on the planet. 

You don't have to identify yourself as a Christian Beau. You are riding its wave anyway, absorbing its truths, reaping its benefits. Within it you live and move and have your being, whether you like it or not. It is for the soul what oxygen is for the body. You can deny it, but you are still breathing it, and living and growing because of it.

Kind regards,

crossbow



   

I am growing because I am evolving spiritually, but Christianity has very little to do with that. Christianity works for some because they believe in it, just as other religions work for some who believe in them. What you are experiencing, crossbow, you would experience with any belief system that you offer yourself to wholeheartedly. I suppose we can both accuse the other of being in denial, but that would be ridiculous really. You have found something that works for you where you are. I find no fault in that. But reasoning for another, there is the largest fault of Christianity. The staples of Jesus' teaching were in existence long before he was and so was the myth that followed him after his physical demise. To associate such power with one belief system I think is a huge mistake in the pursuit of understanding, but in the end it will lead to evolution as any path will, for it is the only logical reason we are here if there is any higher meaning to our existence. Of course Christianity has some bearing on everyone who is familiar with it. Breaking down the myth and understanding why things are the way the are does not mean that Christianity or belief in it is the reason something happens. That is like a scientist assuming because the brain (which he believes in) appears to house the consciousness that it must be so. One has to look beyond the superstition in both instances to see what is really going on. And most likely it is a result of a holographic existence within a holographic universe, but even that would be a belief system until it could be proven. We are not on course to prove it anymore than we are on course to prove the mythology of Christianity. And don't get me wrong, Myth is not a bad thing. It is how we produce an explanation for what appears to be without explanation.

Beau,

I love your reply. It makes me laugh so heartily, but I am not laughing at you, but at the a big joke that I can see and wish that I could share with you. And I love your fire. I wish I could show you what I have seen, and take you out and about with me, so that you can see for yourself that what I have written is true, but I cannot. You have your life; I have mine.

Do you think I am the believing type? Do you think I would adhere to an unknown conviction? Do you think I cannot differentiate between belief and knowledge? Have you read a previous post where I stated what I can do? Do you think I am lying or deluded? I speak not from belief. And not because I have been informed. I speak from knowledge; from pure unadulterated experience. For me my lives pass by like the days of the week do for you. My body is like today's suit of cloths is for you. I look back through my lives like the chapters of a book. To me it is one long life, with trips home inbetween. I leave my body as I am required to do so, in sleep, in meditation, when walking, talking. I can stretch, reach, re-locate, scan, travel. I visit the places where truth can be seen. I have met with people and life forms who are behind the effects as seen from Earth. And I have visited the places where history is seen and heard. I have visited ancient libraries where Earth's great writings are kept, and read the ancient writings, viewed the ancient pictures. My eyes can see right through what looks solid to you. And yes, you are right, it is like a hologram. Your eyes can do so too, if you knew how to make them do it. From one place on earth I can look right through and round this planet, watch it breathe and pulse, and see out in space as well, and through the layers and the frequencies. I tell you this to plant a seed of thought, and that seed of thought is this: I am not who I am and can do what I do because I believe in things. To the contrary, if I were a believer, then I could not do what I can do. I only observe things as they are. Before I know, I do not even hold a preference. What is, is all I value. That is how I do what I do.

Do you believe me? Careful. Do you believe a person can do what I can do? Or do you disbelieve me? Think, what sort of a forum community is this? Again, do you disbelieve me?

Now, what about this forum community. I read you don't like belief systems. Yet I see you are enmeshed in beliefs of your own. You believe in Bruce Moen and Robert Monroe, and in what they have told you about reality. You believe in more than you know. That is why you cannot do what I can do. 

Crossbow:

One night I was meditating and I was shown a crucifix.  I asked why. I was shown an image which basically meant that they killed him (Jesus), they put him on display, and they spotted his reputation. Next I experienced myself press the high C-note on my piano and this meant that Christ represents the highest consciousness of all.

I believe that the man Jesus existed and his spirit still plays an important role today; nevertheless, I doubt that "Christianity" needs to be emphasized. Even though there have been good things about Christianity there have also been bad things. Even if you forget about some of the negative things and consider a good Christian who doesn't harm others, you still might run into problems if this person isn't free to think for his (or herself).

For example, I know of a Catholic lady who is a good person and not an extreme fundamentalist, yet she has a homosexual friend that she believes to be a sinner despite how good of a man he is.  Why? Because she still exists as a person who limits herself according to a particular book and belief system.

I don't believe that a being such as Christ wants people to be limited by any belief system even if such a belief system "partially" came from a person such as himself. My guess is that Jesus understands that when a person starts to get in touch with spiritual truth such a person doesn't need a dogmatic approach defined by others to follow.

When it comes to the Bible, only a small number of words seem to actually come from Jesus.  People decided which of his words would be included and which wouldn't. People decided how they would be translated.

If a person truly comes from a place of love and wisdom, then he offers help without presenting a pass or fail test framework. Therefore, I doubt that Jesus ever said "you better accept me or else."  I'm sure he understands that what each of us wants is true fulfillment. He also probably understands that the only way true fullfillment can be found is through unconditional love and spiritual peace and that each of us will eventually seek such fullfillment regardless of what religion we believe in.

When we want true fulfillment we also want freedom from all dogma.

I believe that one of the reasons many well meaning and good hearted people get turned off by Christianity is because somewhere inside they understand that spiritual truth can't include any of the repressiveness that Christianity has included.  For example, I don't believe that there is a God who wants people to be subservient to him (I don't mean in an old man in the sky). God probably understands that only beings who treat each other as friends can truly share love. When it comes to divine will, good friends tend to work well together when they understand the value of a goal that is sought. I say this, yet I feel humility when I think of God.

Crossbow said: "Do you think I am the believing type? Do you think I would adhere to an unknown conviction?"

Recoverer responds: "Remember when you judged Justin and I to be vegetarian fundamentalists? If you could see into our hearts you would know that we aren't vegetarians for the reasons you stated. Therefore, I believe you are capable of having beliefs because your statements about us weren't based on experience.

I doubt that Jesus would rebuke Justin and I as you did because he probably understands why we are vegetarians.

@crossbow: I believe that you obviously believe you.

jdee190 wrote on Jul 4^th, 2011 at 5:33pm:

Can anyone help me here, i have read from many Christians that we are nearing end times, one of the big signs being the arab spring. Also Saint Malachy's prophecy about the last Pope. Things like the Tribulation, Antichrist and rapture scare the heck out of me

How come you are on the Bruce Moen afterlive forum and you believe Christian believesystems? Did you read his books about the afterlife? proof enough it seems to me.
Why are youy afraid of other peoples believesystems? Why don't you ask your Higher Self for the proper answer.?  Seems very strange this for me, your fear.
Iris
:D

your grandad is giving me the name arthur and gertie and john and sarah he is telling me to tell u not to be afraid as he will be there for u when it is your timne to go he isaying your a lovely lad and he loved u very much he is talking about a little jack russell he said he is there with him ,hes saying you sometimes got him a bottle of stout which he liked hes saying u will be okay so stop worrying i hope this means something to u jdee i am onlty a practising medium at the mo,ment i sit in circle on fri nights your grandad is saying stop worrying about death and start thinking about your future he says u have got a long future ahead of u love dianna123

hi jdee i know its hard when you are afraid of something like end times but try and stay positive,we can all go through life saying"what if","what if",if it happens one day it will,niether of us can stop it ,only deal with it, if it does happen.

i really dont think there will ever be end times,the earth plain is the learning school for each spirit to evolve,i beleive in 2012 we will reach a state of higher conciousness and the planet will go through a time of renewal,but i dont beleive it will be with massive earthquakes,tidal waves ect....

i think it will be a gentle breeze caressing our hearts ,minds and our very soul,i feel we are all going to experience pure unconditional love and no more feeling of hate violence upon us all,but now i am contridicting myself by saying this,because if that were true what i just said ,then how can the soul learn

i think i just leave it open about 2012,i havent got a clue either,well whatever happens ,what can you do,just go with the flow and drift along with the rest of the  human race.so many are scared of what might be but i pray we will all only find peace serenity and love on our jorneys through life,much love and god's blessings upon you and us all.

love and god bless you  love juditha

Recoverer,
I am conscious of this site, like all sites, being scanned by search engines, and there are many readers/viewers of these posts, and they have contacts, who have contacts, who have… We speak before an audience of massive size and wide variety. I am aware that I am speaking to many more than to the one or two persons I appear to be in conversation with. Others were and still are my greater target. You and Justin sighted me in and took some flak. Thank you. Only take on board as much as you think may apply to you. The rest is for others. 

I cannot respond directly to all of yours and Beau’s points above. I have not the time. (I will say thank you for sharing your meditative insight of the piano keyboard – very appreciated.) So I’ll hasten to suggest the adventurous endeavour to get their head around the difference between belief and faith. Study and define truth. Identify the outer boundary of what they know, and where begins assumption, conjecture, and opinion. Endeavour to see how these things are defined and shaped – inscribe them. Identify the central self, as distinguished from its surroundings, and study its nature – through both objective and subjective observance. Intensify and strengthen the central self through continued exercising of “its awareness of itself”. Study the difference and key indicators between the emotions of the emotional nature and the virtues of heart. Then one is becoming well equipped for adventures of a most exiting and educational kind. 

One distinction you and Beau have made which I will respond directly to. Many differentiate between Christ and Christianity, but do not recognise that one is the outer crusty skin of the other, and as yet, the two cannot be separated. Every life-form’s skin suits its environment. When no longer suitable, the skin is shed. The environment dictates the skin. As Paul said, the church is the body of Christ. If you find the skin unpleasant, you may turn and look away; or you may face it and look beneath the skin, and see the life within.    

Beau,
he he, good answer, Beau, I like it. And do you believe (in) you? I would wager a bet that you don’t as much as you could. Belief in oneself, that is, belief in one's own existence, is the stepping stone between belief and faith. Belief and faith are like oil and water; they do not mix. There is nothing similar about them. One is dead; one is alive. Our soul stands between these two. Most people look outward and can only see belief, and assume that faith is something similar and is somewhere out there too, when in fact, faith is very different and is within their self. But accessing faith takes more than right orientation - it requires understanding of what faith is, how it works and what it does, so that one can attune and harmonise with it. Faith is not belief; it is power.

Thank you for putting up with me Gentlemen,

crossbow

I don't know if it's possible to go through life in this world without having some belief.  The key is to find a balance where our beliefs don't get the best of us.

Regarding what Paul said about the church, some sources say that there were mystical Christians during the time of Jesus and people who wanted to control the masses were against such people because they wanted to control people through a church. Therefore, I don't assume that Paul is represented accurately by the Bible nor do I assume that he always got it right. Some of the words attributed to him don't seem to represent higher wisdom.

For example, homosexuality is a sin and women should be submissive to men. It also seems as if he wrote letters to people stating that Jesus would come again during their life and he didn't.

I believe it is very possible that Jesus didn't have it in mind to start a Church. Rather, other people used his name to do so.

Once a person starts looking inside for answers gurus and preachers become unnecessary. Beliefs that come from a guru or preacher can hinder inward seeking.

I believe it is fine for people to share wisdom, but not in a way where people become overly dependent on somebody else.

Very true words, Albert...very true.

Beau:

My feeling is that spiritual truth can't be institutionalized. Because a relatively small number of people have tried to institutionalize spiritual truth, millions (perhaps billions) of people follow somebody else's inaccurate and incomplete interpretation of "supposed" spiritual truth.

I guess a soul will continue to follow such a path until it decides to find a better way.



Beau wrote on Jul 21^st, 2011 at 4:07pm:

Very true words, Albert...very true.

Some find a better way and others have a better way thrust upon them at some point, I guess.

         Re; whether it is possible to "go through life without some belief".

Consciousness, Discrimination and Distinction.
It is a matter of being conscious of what one is doing, of recognising the difference between one type of cognitive action/function and another, and there are many functions, and they are not distinguished in your understanding of them. You have names for them, but their boundaries are fuzzy and they mix messily together. The truth is not like that; the makeup of the human machine and its mind are not like that; its parts are individual, separate and adjacent, like the bricks that make a wall. Comprehension, apprehension, reason, knowledge, logic, analysis, belief, faith, calculation, concrete & abstract thought, imagination, memory, etc, etc, etc, are all distinct parts with actions and functions, adjacent to each other and stacked, separate but interacting, so as to make a functioning machine.

Spiritual progress is institutionalised.
It always has been. There are many such institutions. There has to be, because people are bound together and progress together. No one gets very far on their own. And mankind's groups are each in different places and levels of progress. (truth is not politically correct) All these institutions have been successful for their adherents - some more so than others of course. There are even institutions behind the scenes that operate upon the astral planes - schools, colleges, that run group progress programs, group courses, individual lessons, and so on. There are wonderful libraries, all sorts of excursions/trips available, even personal mentors and assistants. 

The truth is available
- through many avenues that all emerge behind the scenes and ascend the layers. The truth of Christ and the story of the church; the Islamic story; the Hindu story; the stories of the Pagan Gods; the stories of the races of mankind; and of all our institutions of religious, scientific, philosophical, and educational progress. And truths beyond our little world, well beyond, are all available to us. Learning to leave the body is a great first step. It can be learnt through Christianity, through Masonry, Hinduism, Buddhism, through correct meditation, through nature, music, war, science, art, daily living, family life, etc. But which ever route one takes, the mind and heart and speech and action is to be refined and trained. 

Fuzzy minds
You gentlemen do not reason well. You have air and cotton wool in you heads. Your thoughts are like a swirling, mixing mess of fantasy. Not just you two, but many people, even most.    

Sharpening the mind:
If you would sharpen up your minds, and overhaul your mechanism; if you would shed your volumes of mental dross that you carry and indulge, and prune your minds down to what is useful; and turn yourself from daudling air head into higher functioning operative mechanisms. Then I challenge you to take up the following exercise to help you reach your goal:

Discuss nothing with others, including with each other, without defining it - define all your significant key terms. Clearly inscribe their boundaries; and their qualities; and contrast them with their adjacent and their opposing counterparts. You may ask others to do the same when they are in conversation with you. But be sure to expect it and ensure it of yourself. If you cannot clearly define your terms as outlined above, then don't use them. 

As this process becomes habitual, as your definitions accumulate and interlock, your mind will sharpen and clarify, and become more organised in its thinking. Your person will re-arrange and organise itself. You will shed volumes of mental waste. Your words and sentences will reflect your improved thought structure and will become more meaningful and impacting. You will be building and organising your temple.   

 

Have we strayed from the subject of this thread?

b2,

"Have we strayed from the subject of this thread?"

I guess at the end of the day it's about fear. Seems like as of today norway's in on the war on terror as a bomb went off today near the governmental area. Observational cornucopia from all the reactions. The sad thing about fear seems to be that people willingly will accept less from life as long as the fear is removed, even if that means letting go of freedoms.

Crossbow,

"It always has been. There are many such institutions. There has to be, because people are bound together and progress together. No one gets very far on their own."

Like crabs in a bucket, the ones left behind will do their best to claw one back, ELS 101. The people I've met that have gone their own ways are the most interesting ones in terms of progress. On their own is a misnomer though, as friendships reach way beyond institutions and other earthly "delights". My observation is that death (or death related issues) is the most difficult fear to deal with. Fear of letting go of the safety nets provided by the pats on the back from people who hold the line, a good second place. Going off on a tangent is well worth it though.

"You gentlemen do not reason well. You have air and cotton wool in you heads. Your thoughts are like a swirling, mixing mess of fantasy. Not just you two, but many people, even most."

That's your perception, mind you. Can you accept this perception of yours or do you feel the need to save people?

Hello,

I should wait until those last questions have been answered, but sometimes when I do that, it's hard to get back in.  :)

Let's say that ''end times'' comes from institutionalized beliefs. Just to unify the topic and some recent discussion.
Relatedly I can now refer to Crossbow's comment that spiritual progress is institutionalized.  What about the lone spiritual explorers who find new spiritual truths because they were willing to go out on their own? Leaders did approach Thomas Merton, Mahatma Ghandi, Dalai Lama, etc but only after these lone explorers had found their own way. Meanwhile institutions of religion harp away on end times Sunday after Sunday.
Crossbow, I think you're wrong on this one  :)
Personally after early years in Sunday schools/institutions hearing repeatedly of love, nothing further was added to my spiritual understanding. I had to seek spiritual realities on my own.  True, they remain grounded in the pure unconditional love I was taught as a child but that in itself was not any spiritual progress.

Another point recently taken up is one I've questioned previously.  When someone comes to a spiritual plateau in their own practices and beliefs, is that the same as being fuzzy?  I don't think so. It's probably that we need time occasionally to reword and rework our beliefs, to see them from different angles in regard to different topics. In our given lifespans of seventy-plus years, such plateaus are useful. When our posts are read daily our POVs may not excite repeated readers but that doesn't make them fuzzy.

Personally I agree that my mind needs sharpening.  But when I go to find definitions, the definitions seem inadequate for the topic I am researching. My own experience has made the topic more or slightly different than what is defined. (For example, in searching James" Varieties of Religious Experience", no where does he describe or convey the wondrous awe of some spiritual experience. How can he omit that?  Was he truly unaware of it? So what else might he be missing?)  And so I go back out on my own again.

I'm glad your viewpoints are so well presented, Crossbow.  But that doesn't make them more true. Other views may also be true, even more so   ;)

Betson

Crossbow said: Fuzzy minds
You gentlemen do not reason well. You have air and cotton wool in you heads. Your thoughts are like a swirling, mixing mess of fantasy. Not just you two, but many people, even most.   

Recoverer responds: The more I have freed myself from spirituality that has been institutionalized by others, the less fuzzy my mind has become. :)

Regarding the astral realms, yes there could be some belief system territories, but there are also beings who realize that numerous spiritual leaders of this World have created inaccurate and incomplete belief systems. Some are more limiting and misleading than others.

Consider the information that Bruce Moen has shared. If one has a follower mentality then one might turn what he has shared into a limiting belief system. If enough people choose to do so, then Bruce would've created a sheeplike institution without meaning to do so.

On the other hand if people read what Bruce wrote with the intention of only accepting what feels right to them and with the spirit of finding out for themselves what's true, they will be okay.

Since Bruce has never said "this is the truth you have to follow" people are less likely to become sheep who follow him.

When it comes to Jesus, I don't believe he was interested in having a bunch of sheep that follow him.  Certainly it is possible for people to share worthwhile information with others without insisting that those others become followers.

I found out about retrievals from Bruce. I do retrievals not because I want to follow Bruce,  but because I want to help out. We are a part of the same team without either of us being the follower of the other. It isn't necessary for either of us to be a follower in order for the job to get done.  Perhaps the love that inspires each of us is what makes it so what needs to get done, gets done.

Hello Volu,

Yes, the solo road can be misunderstood. I'll admit I have spent some years on it; about 15 years in fair isolation. Sometimes isolation is useful for a spell to get particular work done, but sooner or later we have to rejoin humanity.

Perception.
Socrates' school taught us about perception and how to identify it and bypass it. Unfortunately the sophist mindset is always present to some degree and has gripped the majority again, as it did then.

And no, I do not have a need to save people, not in that sense anyway. I am committed to my work though.

Yes, poor Norway, poor Europe. These are difficult times.   

       

"...with the spirit of finding out for themselves what's true..."

Then you have your job at hand.

Crossbow,

"Yes, the solo road can be misunderstood. I'll admit I have spent some years on it; about 15 years in fair isolation. Sometimes isolation is useful for a spell to get particular work done, but sooner or later we have to rejoin humanity."

Your kind of isolation was a choice you made? I was getting at like attracting like. I've found that when interests go beyond who's related to who, which house they live and what town they live in now, the herds get thinned out and drinking upstream can be the result either liking it or not.

"I am committed to my work though."

What is your work?

"Yes, poor Norway, poor Europe. These are difficult times."

I'd be hard pressed to say poor norway, and life is and has been challenging and difficult at times for everybody. What I'm getting at is, there's lots to glean about fear if one's able to not get caught up the fervour. May you live in interesting times. :)

he, he. Betson. Maybe I am wrong, maybe not; maybe I speak true, maybe not. You don't know, so find out.

I've spent many years - this life I mean - in isolation, just for prayer and meditation, so I appreciate your point about isolated progress. I am in one of the most out of the way places on the planet, where nature is my companion. I am still secluded much of the time, but not so much as I was a couple of decades ago. My development in the so-called spiritual sense has been mostly solo this life. Other lifes it wasn't. I am certainly not suggesting people should follow anyone like sheep or be herded like sheep. It is not this extreme or the other one. And it is not just the physical layer that I mean. I am speaking from an occult or abstract sense. We are all connected by ties between our souls. This is why institutions that facilitate group progress are required. Sure they have all made blunders, but most have made good progress as well. And they each have their life span too. Solo is good, especially for quick concentrated work, but the greater progress is done in group formation. Think about it; a person who lived alone on a deserted island could not possibly develop goodwill to others and virtues of heart such as love, forgiveness, mercy, leniency, and so forth, because they require interaction with others. The heart is the centre of right interpersonal energies and right relations to others, and is the only centre by which our spiritual standard can be judged. Only the heart is the measure. Well developed head centres, although their development is necessary, they count for nothing if the heart centre is undeveloped. So the overall progression of the race is together as a whole, with individuals able to step out for short periods to develop certain skills, but those skills must then be worked and put into practice on others. 

And by the way, I don't go to church - except occasionally, and about once a year or so when I am in a big city and I go in an old church and sit quietly, but seldom during the service. I like to sit in them on my own. 

Can you imagine a picture painted with dyes onto the fabric of a lace curtain, through which you can see the world behind the curtain? Our world is like the picture on the curtain. Am I guessing it is? Am I fancying it is? Or can I see it is? If I can see it - I should be able to tell others how to see it. Shouldn't I?  

I'm tired; its 4.30am here so off to bed.   

You don't need to be a part of a spiritual group that follows the same doctrine in order to interact with other people.

I believe it is possible to make contact with beings who are at Christ Consciousness level, so they are trustworthy.  If you made contact with such a being you'd probably find that he (?) doesn't provide you with a lengthy doctrine to follow. He would mainly provide hints and perspectives.

When it comes to people, probably just about all of us are confused to some degree. If you are part of a group,  the group's doctrine is most likely based on beliefs that a not completely wise and free person (or people) have come up with.

Jesus was probably wiser than most, but to what extent does doctrine presented in his name accurately represent his wisdom?

On the other hand, there are some people who want to be a part of a spiritual group one way or the other. So it might be better that they get involved with Group A rather than Group B, and if Group A didn't exist, such an option wouldn't be available.

Consider Howard Storm. I believe people would be better off being a member of his church rather than being a member of a hardcore fundamentalist church. Howard seems like a humble man to me, so he probably doesn't get carried away with his importance as a church leader. Chances are that for some people it is beneficial to be a member of his church. It depends upon what a person needs.

Volu, you ask:

"Your kind of isolation was a choice you made?"   
Yes Volu, it was a plan.

"What is your work?"
Many things. I doubt it is beneficial to be specific. 

First what are you really afraid of? Ask yourself... How can you fear something that you have no idea about? Your notion of death or end is only derived by your experiences with other's dying. Nobody can answer you what the death or end really is. What I really don't understand is how an individual can take something out of a textbook or a parable to really form a belief of lifetime. It applies to all religions and beliefs. Life is too infinite to be shut down in narrow corridors. Ultimately the universe is the product of all your senses. The entire universe is just your manifestation. Just think about it... You don't even know if things that you believe or try to believe is even true. History isn't nearly as accurate as you may think. You were born and then you derived certain ideas 'that you call knowledge'. Such ideas however logical or fanatical sometimes just shuts you down, makes you a machine without self-will. Unknowingly you shall have formed an opinion, and shut the infinite possibilities. So basically nothing is ultimately true. Yeah, maybe the world might end, considering the infinitesimal position of our civilization in this infinity, it would be a very insignificant event in the universe. When the end is real and near, you shall know for sure. Else, there is nothing to even think about.

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