I originally thought about putting this thread in the "Off topic section", but considering that the E.T. phenomena plays an important part in Bruce's latter books, i figured it could belong here. 

  My intention and hope for this thread is that it evolves into a open minded and hearted discussion about this topic in a very holistic way.  I want to cover many issues myself in communicating about this topic. 

Here are some subjects I would like to go over:  E.T. involvement with the Consciousness and Earth changes taking place in the Earth now and in the future, spiritually oriented E.T. groups, the influence and awareness of Government--particularly of the U.S. in the suppression, misdirection, and deception regarding this phenomena, our own experiences with or intuitions of different E.T. groups, and the question of--is there a group or groups of E.T.'s which seek to keep us limited and cut off from our power source. 

  Let's get real broad here!

  Clearly, it's primarily the materialistic, Western mind which is most skeptical and non accepting of this phenomena.  For we find in other cultures and societies, both past and present, a more open minded and accepting attitude to the reality of other Beings from other worlds and/or dimensions and the awareness that they have and are interacting with us now.

For example, Dr. John Mack talks about his communication with the Dali Lama about this issue and that the Dali Lama indicated that not only was he aware of such Beings, but specifically said that he was aware that they are quite upset with us because of the way we are treating the Earth we live in and that's part of the reason of their involvement with us now. 
Dr. Mack mentioned that this perspective was corroborated by his own clinical work with patients who either had been abducted or who had other contacts with E.T. beings before he talked to the Dali Lama. Particularly many of the contacts and experiences involving the "Grays" revolved around them communicating the extreme importance and necessity of humans needing to respect and care for the Earth and life around us, that we are destroying our beautiful physical home and that it was negatively affecting other levels of existence, and other Beings. 

  Dr. Mack also mentions that in talking with various Native American individuals and groups, that he was surprised when they told him things like, "we know about these Beings and have for awhile." 

  So it seems when you compare the Western, materialistic mind set and paradigms to a larger world view, we are the ones in the "minority" in not being open to such realities. 

Those of us with nonphysical experiences and beliefs, know well that this is also the case in this area too.  That other cultures tend to be more accepting of nonphysical realities and experiences.

The problem with researching and talking about this area is multi-fold.  One is that it so vast and broad of a topic.  For example, the question of, just how many different E.T. groups are there in just this Universe and how many are interacting with us in some way now? 

  Two: there is so much contradictory info out there, even when talking about the same subject.  For example, the topic of the Grays in particular is very contradictory.  There are many people and sources which say that these are not positively intentioned towards humans.  Many cite the abduction experience and that the abductees tend to be terrified and consciously don't want or like the experience.

  Some say they do have positive intentions towards us, but so lack the experience of emotions and the emotional/feeling appreciation of love, that they truly do seem "alien" and/or negative to us.  In other words, they don't fully understand the emotionally terrifying nature of them abducting us.

  Some say that they are quite positive in their intentions to us, and are working with us with the permission of a collective of Light Beings from many worlds who are more spiritually aware than either of us.  One such source says that the humans who are abducted, volunteered and agreed to this before they entered into physical life, but because of the nature of physical existence when the time comes, of course their conscious minds have forgotten the pre agreed contract, and so they experience a lot of fear and upsetness in their conscious minds yet at the same time, from a higher self perspective they are happy and joyful in the knowledge that they are being of helpful service to these Beings.  (apparently they need our help to some extent, as they are trying to help us in other ways).

  There is even some contraction regarding the group known as the "Reptilians".  Many sources say that they are definitely negative in their intentions to us and have the purpose and plan to limit us in various ways, to manipulate and use us (and/or the Earth) in various ways, etc.   That they are very "conqueror" and aggressive minded.  One source says that they are being held in check in attacking in an overt, physical way currently by groups more powerful and aware than they are.

Yet, some individuals here and there report seemingly positive experiences with Reptilians. 

  This brings up some questions.  Are there different Reptilian groups from different "places" interacting with humans?   Were at some point the Reptilians less negative?  Are Reptilians like humans in that within a whole of a race there are different factions, groups, and individuals who have different intents, motivations, and spiritual awareness levels?   

   Were the minority of people who had positive experiences with Reptilian beings being deceived?  Are they in league with them and trying to deceive their fellow humans or rather a natural Like attracts, begets, and likes Like phenomenon happening?  Or perhaps were they once Reptilian themselves at a time wherein this group was more positive and remember this and identify with this group based on past experiences rather than present realities? 


   How can we know with any certainty the truth of any of these matters wherein so little physical evidence and knowledge is provided?

   I believe there is a way to find out the truth of these or any matter, if the student is ready.  I believe a combo of meditation and prayer, wherein one brings up and focuses on the feeling of love and gratitude, specifically asks for the help, guidance, and protection of only the most PUUL attuned and spiritually aware consciousnesses, and then asks a question with no preconception and learns the fine art of simply listening for an answer, and then interpreting that answer. 

  My experience is that we won't always get answers right away to the questions we ask.  There can be various reasons why.  Here are just some.  One, we're not ready to know something yet.  Two we could figure it out on our own via a combo of life experience, deductive reasoning, looking at sources we feel and intuit are more credible.  3.  Maybe we just aren't attuned enough in that particular meditation and so aren't clear enough to more clearly perceive an answer at that particular time.  This is particularly so when we are asking such ultimate questions which have answers and the level they come from, which are so fast vibratory/expanded in nature.   The better receptors or channels we become, e.g., the more fast vibratory we become ourselves, the more likely we will get and more easily perceive such information that is innately expanded/fast vibratory in nature.
 
   Sometimes the answers aren't obvious, and takes a little while to figure out, or takes a synchronicity to support, or what not.   Sometimes we have a dream later, which is an answer, or meet someone who addresses the issue we are interested in.

  But there is no harm in asking the questions to begin with, and being open to receiving whatever.  If we truly have the intention and desire to be led to the truth, then we will be, and that old saying of "Ask and ye shall receive..." is so true on so many levels.  Sometimes we have to keep asking though. 

I don't have time to say much now, so I'll say just a few things at this point.

Regarding abductions, if you go by Rosalind Mcknight's book Cosmic Journeys, implants came from negative aliens. The aliens that represented themselves to Robert Monroe and Rosalind as positive said that they can use the implants too.

I once received a message that abductions are done by negative aliens. On another occasion I received the  message that most abductions are done my negative aliens.

When it comes to John Mack, in his book "Abduction" he speaks as if Greys are positive, but his information is largely based on people being hypnotized. I believe it is hard to find certain information this way.

Barbara Bartholic and Karla Turner have worked with abductees and they said that Reptilians provide screen memories and a person needs to be hypnotized more than one time until he (or she) finds out what really happened. Eventually abductees reach the point where they find that Reptilians are behind what they experienced.

Perhaps Mack didn't hypnotize people deeply enough. Also, in his book "Passport to the Cosmos" he speaks of people who have had experiences with Reptilians and Greys. People such as Credo Mutwa told Mack that Greys are negative.

Courtney Brown wrote that Greys are planning to transport some people to another planet so that when this world is no longer able to support human life the human gene pool will still be available.

This contradicts messages people have received about the world becoming a better place and the human race becoming quite positive. Going by the messages I have received, such a positive evolution will take place. Therefore, why would Greys need to transport humans to another planet in order to save the human gene pool?

Some sources say that when things become really bad in this world aliens are going to land and act as saviours, but then they'll transport people to another planet so they can be used as slaves. If this viewpoint is true, I wonder why they just don't go ahead and take people now. Some sources say such kidnappings explain why some people are missing.

One night while meditating I wondered about the possibility of boarding an alien ship when the going gets rough, I suddenly saw a starship in space, the back hatch was open, I flew up to the hatch and hit my head on its upper ceiling. It is possible that this "head hitting" symbolically represented that I better not get on a alien ship when the going gets tough because I might not like the results.

I believe that people (and other beings) who live according to divine love and wisdom want to help all beings advance spiritually, including unfriendly aliens. However, this doesn't mean that they want to make the mistake of being tricked by unfriendly aliens and helping them with their negative agenda. 

Here's the terra papers by robert morning sky.

The history of earth, allegedly, from an alien to earth perspective.

http://tiny.cc/casrz

  Hi Albert,

  Right now, also don't have time to reply in depth (going strawberry picking in a bit).  Just want to comment on a couple things.


Quote:

When it comes to John Mack, in his book "Abduction" he speaks as if Greys are positive, but his information is largely based on people being hypnotized. I believe it is hard to find certain information this way.

  From what i've seen and read in relation to Dr. Mack, i got the impression that initially he thought that the Grays were not particularly positive and this was mainly based on his patients traumatic experiences and the fear they felt.  He mentions though, as he helped many of his patients to deal with the fear, many started to realize that they had spiritual connections to these beings.   

It sounds like by this point, they were going deeper into the whole process.   


Quote:

Barbara Bartholic and Karla Turner have worked with abductees and they said that Reptilians provide screen memories and a person needs to be hypnotized more than one time until he (or she) finds out what really happened. Eventually abductees reach the point where they find that Reptilians are behind what they experienced.

  Since i had not heard of the two above people, and since you sort of recommended them, i checked out some video lectures of Karla Turner.  I watched a particularly long one.   

  One of my criterion for evaluating such kind of info is not just the data and info the person shares, but 
the vibe of the person. 

  From what i was understanding of this lecture, K.T. seemed very suspicious and critical of ALL E.T. contacts, not just abductions.  In fact, she said in the lecture that she considered just telepathic contact to be a form of "abduction".   

  It sounds like she really dislikes anything "E.T.", and she spent a good amount of time making fun of any spiritual type encounters or developments from E.T. contacts.   She also was calling into question Earth changes info, and seemed to imply that such information was always a sham and designed to embarrass or ruin the contactees life. 

   Vibe wise, she seemed tense, angry, and despite the occasional sarcastically humourous comment, quite over serious.  I noted she was wearing a dark red shirt, which is often a color preference of people that have a lot of fear and suppressed rage going on inside them. 

  Being an abductee herself, that is understandable to some extent, but if she had a more spiritual and Higher self oriented perspective, like some other abductees or contactees have, perhaps she would have worked through some of that tension and anger.   


   Contrast that with Dr. Mack.  When watching him, i was getting the feelings of someone who was spiritually mature, aware, happier/more joyful, and more balance, and here was a guy who put everything, put quite a lot on the line to go public with this info.  Heck, i saw one video lecture of him shot during 2002.  For a man 72 years old in the lecture, he looked quite good and much younger than his years.  For me, this is sometimes a mark of unusual spiritual attunement. 

  If my intuitions or vibe reading of these people are more accurate than not, who would give us more clear and balanced information, the person with a lot of fear and anger towards all things E.T., or the person with a more balanced and spiritual approach?

  Such factors need to be taken into account when considering this, or ANY kind of information--particularly when it comes to more hidden or less known info and knowledge.  The faster vibratory the individual, the more clearly, broadly, and holistically will they perceive as a tendency. 

I figure that if one wants to find out  what the Greys are about, one needs to consider what both supporters and non-supporters say, regardless of temperment. Considering what Karla went through her negative attitude isn't surprising.

Barbara Bartholic, who worked closely with Karla Turner said that a number of abductees told her that they had a non-physical experience where they met Barbara as a positive being, and this being directed them to her for assistance. When they met her in person they found that she looked the same. The same is true for Jacques Valle, a man who worked with Barbara. One abductee drew pictures that accurately showed how Barbara (and I think Jacques) looked.

Below is from the attached interview.

"Message: (From Joanne) She’s murdered. (Karla’s message) The malfunction of your clock is the signal to you .that I am present. Must present facts. Must keep up work. Don’t stop because of fear. Fear is their power. Not finished fighting. Will help from other side. There are good forces there. If you do not speak out, you are all accomplices. Death is not an end. I will watch over you. You are a witness to a crime. I love you."

http://www.whale.to/b/bartholic.html

recoverer wrote on May 22^nd, 2011 at 12:58pm:

I figure that if one wants to find out  what the Greys are about, one needs to consider what both supporters and non-supporters say, regardless of temperment. Considering what Karla went through her negative attitude isn't surprising.

  I agree.  Yet, you apparently missed one of my main points.  From the lecture i watched, it seemed that K.T. was not just suspicious of the Grays and Reptilians, but of ALL seeming E.T. like Beings and contacts. 

  To me that is extremist and overly negative, and just doesn't fit in with the messages i've received, or that i've read in credible sources like McKnight's work.   

  I believe there are far more positively intentioned, or at least not negatively intentioned, E.T.'s interacting with us than the outright selfish and destructive types. 

  From what i remember of reading "Cosmic Journeys", it sounded like Rosie's guidance only warned about one particular group or race of E.T.'s then currently involved with humans in a negative, ill intentioned way. 

  They said many other groups were trying to assist in helping to raise the consciousness of humanity.  They said that a number of these groups had and were going to send in some of their consciousness  into human form (by being born as a human) to assist with contacts and communications with these more helpful E.T. groups. 

  From K.T.'s comments in her lecture, it seems she would deride such perspectives and make sarcastic comments about same.   Yet, i trust and resonate far, far, far more on an intuitive level with Rosiland's info than with K.T.'s. 

  Specifically about the Grays.  I'm open to the possibility that they are not fully positive in their intentions to us. 

  Yet, my intuition has been consistently that especially with this group, we can't be too black and white in our labeling of them as "positive" or "negative".  Sometimes such black and white labels just don't work, as they rarely work with individual humans. 

They certainly lack a degree of awareness of PUL, particularly in a feeling, emotional sense.  If one tuned into them, or the more original, non hybrid ones, one would get feelings of "coldness", and maybe a certain sense of superiority in their views of themselves when compared to us because they are so highly intelligent, technologically developed, etc. 

  Yet, i don't believe this makes them fully "negative".   

  I have not received any messages to date telling me that the Grays are particularly negative or misleading in their intentions towards us.

  Yet i have with the Repitilians, or at least a particular group of same.  I just had a dream this morning.   The dream felt very physically real and vivid.  I was by the linen closet next to our bedroom, and all of a sudden the closest door flew open in my face, and while i couldn't see anything that physically caused it, i perceived it was caused by the Reptilians and that they were trying to mess with me and create fear in me.   

  I tried with all my strength, both physical and psychic, to close the door of the linen closet, but couldn't.  That's when i started to feel some fear.  It started to get intense, but then i realized that the fear was counter productive, and i deliberately focused on my breathing, slowed it down and started to release the fear.  I don't remember anymore of the dream. 

  So, until i receive a more specific message telling me that the Grays are trying to mess with humanity, me, or whatever in a limiting way, i will keep an open mind and presume innocence until proven guilty. 

   Particularly with the Gray group, the issue seems to be complex and relative.  If Brown's info is true in some ways, then apparently there are different Gray groups, from different times interacting with humanity.   Some earlier, less evolved ones don't seem to have as much ethics or concern about humans as the others. 

  In fact, he goes into quite a length to mention that the original Grays, before they became so "gray", ended up becoming quite destructive, let themselves get seduced and influenced by a powerful lacking in Light Being (the one responsible for what Brown calls the "Lucifer rebellion" in the nonphysical), and ended up destroying their home planet with their destructiveness and negativity.   

  If Brown's info is true on this, then it makes the Gray issue in particular quite complex, subtle, and relative potentially. 

My intuition supports that interpretation, but i don't agree with everything that Brown has said in his books.  But i don't have the tendency to completely write off a whole work if a source says a couple of things i don't quite agree with (unless it's about some major, important issues from my perspective).

  Any human who is not a "He/She" type will get some things off sometimes.  Including you and i.    



   

 

Quote:

When it comes to John Mack, in his book "Abduction" he speaks as if Greys are positive, but his information is largely based on people being hypnotized. I believe it is hard to find certain information this way.

  Isn't Barbara's and Kara's information also largely based on hypnosis? 

  Both groups also mention conscious remembrances and experiences as well. 

  To me, surface conscious remembrances can be more problematical than info and memories attained under hypnosis.  Reason being is that there is often more interpreter overlay and skewing with the former.  Often the deeper one goes in relaxation of the conscious mind, the more purely the information can come to the fore. 

Hypnosis is just a word & concept for a more deeply relaxed state of being in relation to the conscious mind. 

  The only main problem with hypnosis is the issue of "leading a subject", and yet many hynpotherapists have reported time and time again that the subconscious mind isn't fully passive and that when they have asked certain questions or what not, the patients went somewhere else with the info, rather than telling the therapist what they were asking about.   

  This tells me that the Soul consciousness or level of a person is often more active during these sessions than is often recognized.  One might say that the subconscious level of the mind and the concept of the Soul is very linked and connected. 

   But yes, i am aware that leading can be an issue.  But be very aware that people who often cry "leading" are often people who don't have beliefs in the reality of the Soul in the eternal, consciousness sense or the influence of the Higher self.  If the Higher self and Guidance level of a person does or doesn't want certain info to come through, it certainly is capable of directing it one way or the other.  This part of us is much more powerful than any "E.T." and their influence on us. 

  More specifically with E.T. contacts and abductions in relation to hypnosis, there is the issue of the manipulation of perception and memory on part of the E.T. to the human. 

  I do believe this is quite possible and does happen.   Yet, what would be more reliable in such a case, info remembered consciously from the get go, or information gleaned from deeper hypnosis wherein a patient is specifically given a suggestion to look past all illusion, false memory, manipulation or what not, and get to the real source and real memory of an event?

  One can "invoke" the Higher self level of a person more easily in the case of hypnosis and have clearer communication with same in those relaxed states which are much more akin to meditation than our everyday "normal" waking state. 

Now, i don't know enough about Dr. Mack's methods, or Barbara's or Karlas, or in comparison, to say anything one way or another. 

Yet i note that Dr. Mack had a long time interest in spiritual issues and practices before getting involved in these E.T. issues and regressions, and probably was aware of the concept of the Higher self level of humans, and it's not unreasonable to assume that he may have incorporated such methods and suggestions with his regressive, hypnotic work.

  Karla on the other hand, never once mentioned in her lecture the importance of love, meditation, prayer, the Higher self, etc. at all.   In fact, she said that the only effective way to fight these E.T.'s was to show, or direct towards them anger. 

  Anger is often, not always though, quite related to fear, particularly in a sense when someone feels threatened.  Obviously this pertains quite a lot to E.T. experiences for a lot of people. 

  If Karla had mentioned anything about the importance of feeling love towards any of these abducting or contacting Beings, i would be more open to her interpretations of OTHERS experiences.  Yet, is it really her job to interpret these and tell us that when a person is experiencing a positive experience it's most likely a false memory, screen, or manipulation of some kind?

  One thing i respect about Dr. Mack's work is that he doesn't tend to interpret his patients experience for us.  He more so reports it and let's us decide what to believe more so.  The interpretations or conclusions he does state, tend to be the kind of general ones wherein many different people report a very similar experience.  He might say something like, "many of my patients later report that they had similar, positive spiritual experiences involving a certain group."   

  He doesn't say this means it is definitely positive, or it's just the E.T.'s manipulating perceptions.  Karla often implies and insinuates the latter as it is obviously her own belief and perspective.

btw, here is a link to the lecture with K.T. that i have been talking about.  It's broken up into 4 parts.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/227534-Karla-Turner-UFO-MIlitary-Abductions-1994-Lecture#comment46734

Justin:

The below is from page 108 of Courtney Brown's "Cosmic Voyage."

--CB: "Ah. Things seem to have smoothed out. The people on this world are from Earth. The Greys brought them here [Pleiades star system]. They have been transported. The humans do not know everything. They do not even know where they are."

Monitor: "What is the reason for the transplanting?"

CB: "Human survival is at stake. A new location is needed away from the Earth's climatic disasters."

Monitor: "Continue your probes. Find out more."

CB: "The transplanting is still going on at the target time, but is is not yet happening at our current time. At the present, they are only preparations. They are getting a class M planet ready while waiting for humans to self-destruct."

Monitor: "What else is being transplanted?"

CB: "Genetic material is dominant. They need as wide a selection as possible of genetic material to ensure the survivability of a better, more advanced gene pool."


Recoverer speaking again: The above doesn't go along with messages people including myself have received. We received messages stating that the human race will evolve to a higher level of consciousness. This being the case the above won't be necessary. In order for me to accept what Courtney wrote I would have to forget positive change information people including myself have received.

When it comes to information derived from therapists that "do" take a spiritual approach, the information they receive is contradictory (e.g.; Michael Newton, Brian Weiss and Dolores Cannon). One thing that sometimes takes place is that a being starts speaking through a hypnotized person's body(?). Some of the things such beings say doesn't sound right. The people Dolores Cannon got to channel in such a way sometimes contradict each other. When I read Dolores Cannon's books for a while my guidance sent me a couple of messages stating that I better use my discernment. If you take Michael Newton's word for it, there is no such thing as lower realms and negative entities.

The information that seems more credible to me is information that didn't come through hypnosis.

This morning while meditating I asked for information about the Greys. I'm hesitant to share what I received because I'm not certain what it means.

Nevertheless, while wide awake I was shown some scenery in a way where it seemed as if I was floating through the places I saw. Even though the imagery was clear, my perception wasn't real clear. Therefore, it was hard to make things out. Also, I had to put in effort in order to make certain that I didn't lose contact with what I was experiencing (staying phased in was difficult).

First I saw beings standing on hillsides. I'm unclear on this, but seems as if they were being grown like plants. They looked more human than Greylike, but they weren't completely human. They were definitely  taller than the Greys.

Next I was shown cities with architecture that is different than human cities. The architecture seemed futuristic.

As I saw the above the thought occurred to me that this is how things would look in this world if the Greys took over. It is possible that my own worrisome thoughts caused me to think this way and got in the way of my understanding what was being communicated to me.

Perhaps the beings I saw were hybrids. They didn't seem human.

A while ago I asked about the Greys and was shown a Grey that looked quite odd. This didn't seem like a positive message.

Do you remember what I said about unfriendly aliens contacting me a couple of months ago? They looked more Grey-like than Reptilian-like. They were white and had simple faces. Perhaps I saw a breed of Greys that is different than the Greys people make images of. Whatever the case, even though they didn't feel evil in a monstrous way, they felt quite cold. It didn't seem as if love is one of the elements they use when making decisions. They might need help, but where would their trustworthiness come from if they don't rely on love at all? This is an actual question, not just a point in the form of a question.

Did the unfriendly Greys look less unfriendly when u sent them PUL?

Could it be a Locale III (other energy system) u saw?

recoverer wrote on May 23^rd, 2011 at 2:54pm:

Justin: The below is from page 108 of Courtney Brown's "Cosmic Voyage." --CB: "Ah. Things seem to have smoothed out. The people on this world are from Earth. The Greys brought them here [Pleiades star system]. They have been transported. The humans do not know everything. They do not even know where they are." Monitor: "What is the reason for the transplanting?" CB: "Human survival is at stake. A new location is needed away from the Earth's climatic disasters." Monitor: "Continue your probes. Find out more." CB: "The transplanting is still going on at the target time, but is is not yet happening at our current time. At the present, they are only preparations. They are getting a class M planet ready while waiting for humans to self-destruct." Monitor: "What else is being transplanted?" CB: "Genetic material is dominant. They need as wide a selection as possible of genetic material to ensure the survivability of a better, more advanced gene pool." Recoverer speaking again: The above doesn't go along with messages people including myself have received. We received messages stating that the human race will evolve to a higher level of consciousness. This being the case the above won't be necessary. In order for me to accept what Courtney wrote I would have to forget positive change information people including myself have received.

  Albert, i will put the above in holistic context. 

First note the highlighted portion of your above quote. 

  This session was done in 1994, and what was seen for the future, had not happened yet. 

Is it possible that Brown was seeing a possibility that involved the worst case scenario with the coming Earth changes? 

  Here are some things to think about.  Remember Bruce's work and info.  In one of his earlier Monroe Institute programs, he and some of his partners saw horrendous and extremely destructive, extremely severe developments occurring. 

This i believe was before 98'.  Yet later on, when they check up on Earth changes, Helpers tell them that now at this point in time, the Changes would not be so severe and it was partially the result of the efforts of people like Bruce to help raise the consciousness of humanity. 

  So, why isn't it possible that Brown just tapped into a possible or probable future reality that at 94 could have been possible or probable, but isn't anymore and hasn't been for awhile?

  After all, Bruce was told that things had changed and would be much less severe. 

  Another source, the Edgar Cayce readings mention on a few occasions a specific time line as important to look at.  This was the 40 year testing period for humanity from 1958 to 1998. 

Implied was that how humanity developed and chose collectively during that 40 year testing period, would have much impact and determination on what would happen to humanity during the changes that were said to come after 98. 

   When dealing with fluidic things as time and the future, you can't just write someone off in such a black and white manner and with using no subtly of thought that takes into account relative and variable factors. 

   Like you and others, i've also received messages that we will stay on Earth for awhile, and will develop a better civilization out of the ashes of the old. 

   But i don't see how that "debunks" information relating to the future that Brown saw in 94.  Maybe it was a real possibility then.  Maybe the Greys or some other E.T.'s would have had to bring us to some other place to continue our evolution.

Imagine what would have happened if an all out nuclear war had happened during a WWIII scenario at some point?  Almost total destruction, and it would be very, very, very hard for human life to survive, let alone prosper after such a development.

  In his later book, Brown receives DIFFERENT information about the future. 

When it comes to the unfriendly aliens I made contact with, I saw them only briefly, and I can't say they looked unfriendly. I don't know what speices of aliens they are. I felt them more than I saw them.

Regarding the odd image I saw after asking what Greys are about, its nature wasn't based on my state of mind. It could be that the Grey I was shown looked odd not because it is evil, but because it is currently in an odd state of evolution. This is what some sources state about them. If you go by what Courtney Brown wrote, they are caught in their oneness with each other to an extent where they don't have the freedom to manifest their uniqueness. Some say they are lacking in emotional development because they've taken on too much of a mental approach.


PauliEffectt wrote on May 23^rd, 2011 at 4:41pm:

Did the unfriendly Greys look less unfriendly when u sent them PUL? Could it be a Locale III (other energy system) u saw?

recoverer wrote on May 23^rd, 2011 at 3:20pm:

They might need help, but where would their trustworthiness come from if they don't rely on love at all? This is an actual question, not just a point in the form of a question.

   Remember Bruce's accounts with the 2nd Gathering Group? 

Remember he said that they understood love from a mental, intellectual perspective, but didn't yet have the experience or knowingness of the importance of love in a feeling way?

  I believe similar applies to the Greys.  Perhaps they are aware of the connectedness of all things, and care about that, but they haven't felt the feel good emotional like feelings that we humans can more easily feel and experience. 

   This would make them seem "cold" to us, as i said earlier, but that doesn't mean they aren't to be trusted. 

One can be ethical in ones ideals, without knowing the totality of love.  For example, the Greys through mental observation of looking at themselves and other groups could come to the awareness of the importance of love at least on a mental level by understanding the physics that everything is completely connected and that if one does negatively to another, it negatively affects self, and if one does positively to others it affects self positively. 

Or looking at the cause and effect of ones and others actions over a broader time and scale.

One can know and experience facets of love, without experiencing the totality of love. 

Right now, you and i are aware of love, but are we experiencing the totality of love?  No, of course not, if we were, we would be like Yeshua.

  Obviously the feeling part and experience of love is very important.  Brown seem to pick up the information that they deep down want and recognize the need for help in this area and that humans in particular could help them.  They originally didn't approach us in that way because of a sense of superiority, but eventually realized they needed our help on various levels. 

They need help genetically and from interaction with such emotional beings like humans.  We can help polarize our extremes into balance. 

  I've considered many viewpoints, and i use my intuition to go with the ones that make the most sense.

  Basically, the Greys are strange to us because they are very non human like. 

  This doesn't make them beyond trust.  I do not trust the Reptilian group whatsoever, and ironically they are more similar to us in the sense of being more emotional Beings. 

I sense and feel intense feelings of negativity, superiority, selfishness, and unconcern with the connectedness of all consciousness.

This is very different what i sense with the Greys.  The Greys do feel cold and very non human like, but i don't sense malevolence like i do with the Reptilian group. 

 

Justin:

I considered the possible future factor, yet I still felt it was worthwhile to bring up what Courtney wrote. Howard Storm and Ned Dogherty wrote about positive changes they learned about as if they are very definitely are going to happen, because this is what divine will wants.

When it comes to the messages I received about positive changes, it is hard to say how much certainty was intended. When information has been provided to me without my asking, it is possible that possibilities were presented. It does seem as if there were occasions when a positive future has been shown to me with the intent of letting me know that I don't need to fret too much because eventually things will work for the best.

As I think about it now, and when I consider the times when I was first shown negative events taking place and then shown something that represents a very positive change, it seems as if I was being shown what will actually take place.

As I said before, some sources have said that there are unfriendly aliens that want to fool people into boarding their space ships. If this is true, then it is possible that negative aliens will try to find ways before hand to make it so people will be willing to board their ships.

I do not believe it is reasonable to assume that everything that is communicated to Courtney Brown is trustworthy.  If the Greys were willing to send remote viewers false informaton beforehand, they might be willing to do the same with Courtney. I'm not willing to assume that it is a matter of John Mack making it so Greys are now willing to provide reliable information.

I must add that even though I have received information about unfriendly aliens being involved with this world and possible future threats, I have yet to receive information that made the point that what Greys might be doing with cloning etc serves a positive purpose that benefits mankind.

I did go through a period of time when I considered the positive possibilies including the part about people agreeing to be abducted before they incarnated, but as I said above, no confirmations.

On the other hand I have received two messages that made the point that abductions have been done by unfriendly aliens. One said most. If what I received represents the truth, then it is hard to see how numerous Grey related abductions that serve a positive purpose fit in.

There are also people who have said that they've seen Greys and Reptilians working together. Some sources say that Greys are worker bees for the Reptilians. I don't want to dismiss what they say simply because they aren't as positive as John Mack.  Something doesn't become true simply because positive people support it. Consider ACIM.

 
   Regarding Brown and his information about Greys, or in general re: the whole of his work (both books and info on his sites).  As i've already said, i don't necessarily believe he got it all completely accurate.

  However, you seem to be forgetting something.  Brown did not just get info about the Greys directly from the Greys themselves. 

Yes, it's possible that they could have deceived or mislead him, as they may have with some abductees.

  Yet, he received information about the Greys from other sources as well.  One of his targets ended up being Jesus.  His contacts with Jesus resonated at a very deep and intuitive level with me.  He is one of the few sources that i know of which is not religious which gives information implying that Jesus is a Co-Creator of this Universe and many of the Beings in same. 

   Brown didn't interpret it that way, and yet he still received information which could imply same.  We find the same implying in some of Bruce's accounts with the Planning Intelligence "Disk".  We find it pretty blatantly stated a few times in the Cayce work.  John of the NT seems to strongly imply it. 

  He also contacted non human Light Beings, from a group he labeled the Galactic Federation.  I'm also considering his 2nd book's info as well as his 1st. 

  At any one of the points he was communicating with these non Grey intelligences whether Jesus or non human Light Beings, they could have told him, "hey, the Greys are misleading and deceptive beings, be wary when interacting with them." 

Yet neither Jesus nor the non human Light Beings tell him this.  In fact, Jesus was almost authoritative with Brown when he said that we need to help the Greys, "his children" as Jesus specifically says.   

  I can understand you doubting the info from the Greys directly, but what were they also impersonating Jesus here?  How far down the rabbit hole do we have to go?  If we listented to a person like Kara, she would have been likely to assume that he wasn't really contacting Jesus and that Greys were creating the experience for him.   

Could they make him feel the intense feelings of humor, joy, love, in Courtney when he was in contact with Jesus?

  It doesn't seem to me with the messages you have received that you have received a clear warning about the Greys, yet it does seem that you have about the group known or called the Reptilians.  Becky and i certainly have with the latter, whether or not their true form is reptilian or not.

  Consider this for a moment Albert.  Say theoretically for a moment that most of Brown's info about the Greys and the Reptilians is true.  Say the Greys are in a war with, and have been for awhile with the Reptilians over the Earth and humanity's fate and the Greys are trying to help us to have a positive future outcome.. 

   If this is true, wouldn't the Reptilians then have a strong vested interest in discrediting the Greys and deceiving us about them in every respect? 

  Wouldn't they try to make it seem to the people they abduct or mess with, that the Greys are also the "bad guys" and not to be trusted. 

   If this is even a possibility, then we better be real certain of our messages, interpretations, etc. before we write off the Greys as a mostly negative influence we should avoid except in feeling PUL towards them in a detached way. 

  Because if they are not mostly negative, and Brown is correct about them, then they are one of the forces most helping us out in this now covert war with the Reptilians.  On the front lines so to speak.

  If Brown is correct about this, then i would have the utmost gratitude and appreciation towards the Greys for trying to help us with such a destructive group that so dislikes us.

  I will start doing some meditations with the specific intent of finding out the truth about the Greys.

One of my first E.T. contacts was a dream i had when i was 18 back in 98'.  I was aware to my surprise that i was telepathically communicating with an E.T. group after seeing their craft in the skey and they told me that they were here observing and trying to help with the Changes taking place in humanity and the Earth.  They did not feel negatively intentioned, but they did feel quite "foreign" or different to me, but it all was a bit overwhelming at the time so i shut off the communication.  For a long time after the dream, when thinking about it, i often got the sense that the group i had been communicating with might have been the Greys, but i'm not certain about it. 

  I agree more research and going within is needed before coming to any set conclusions, but i tend to rely more on my intuition than many males do.   



 

  Here is some experience documenting the ability of Courtney Brown to quite accurately perceive a Remote Viewing target. 

  In this case, it shows the non linear nature of time, because when Brown had done the R.V. session, as purposed, a target hadn't even been picked yet.  He did one on the intention and knowing that a target would later be assigned.

An associate later picked a target after Brown R.V.'ed the target and sent a highly encrypted data file with the R.V. session to another associate, but without the key necessary to unlock same.  As you will see, Brown did a pretty good job of describing the target. 

  After clicking on this link, go below the video screen part to "Project Videos" and click on "The Manoa Project" link to watch the session i am talking about.

http://www.farsight.org/AV/av1.html

  If all involved are being truthful about this session, then Brown does definitely have some developed ability to remote view targets.   

   I would like to see if anyone here could get such an accuracy rate with a target.  I'm not sure i would and i've had various verifications or at least partial hits in most of the psychic type exercises i've tried. 

recoverer wrote on May 23^rd, 2011 at 5:37pm:

Justin: I considered the possible future factor, yet I still felt it was worthwhile to bring up what Courtney wrote. Howard Storm and Ned Dogherty wrote about positive changes they learned about as if they are very definitely are going to happen, because this is what divine will wants.

  At least with Storm (i don't fully remember Dougherty's account right now), it seems like Guidance knew that he would reach more to the fundamentalist, religious types, and so the information had to be packaged in a certain way to some extent.
  My experience with some fundamentalist, religious types is that they often have a more black and white mindset wherein they lack a subtly of perception and interpretation.  If Storm had gone into depth about the relativity of future time-lines to a more detailed, complex, and in depth degree, perhaps this would have confused some of his readers or general audience?

  Also, sometimes Guidance will stress something so we believe more strongly in it (even if it's only a probability), in order to help make it a reality.  It's called "positive suggestion".  Act or speak as if the change you (or they) want to see is already a reality, even though we're dealing with a fluid and to some extent dependent on the freewill choices and actions of people, future.

  In any case, most NDE's dealing with the issue of the future state that what develops, report that it is often up to us and our collective and individual choices and ways of living.

  Many psychic sources also state similar.  The Divine can want something all It wants, but if we refuse to be on board, then such positive changes aren't necessarily going to happen.  We are an active participants necessary in co-creating such futures. 

That's the whole meaning of "freewill", and rarely does the Divine interfere in a direct manner to change how and what we choose.  Instead, usually and most often Divine forces try to guide and influence to choose the wisest and most beneficial.   

  Storm was most likely seeing and recounting a probable future, and was told or interpreted in a manner most helpful to the audience he was going to reach out to.   There is also the problem and question of misinterpretation and skewing of such fast vibratory info downloads.   Besides the very issue of language, there is also the ever present factor of interpreter overlay and skewing which is so common.

  For example, some of his info contradicts McKnights info and the info we (Becky & i) have received about probable future time lines. 

  Both above sources indicate that for about 700 years or so, though not immediately right after the collapse, we will be involved with technology like anti gravity craft, advanced space stations, etc. before we start to drop all technology and become totally intune with all consciousness and become the "H Plus" humans that Monroe saw for some point around the 3500 or so mark.

  Yet, Storm saw us living like the Native Americans, but a even more spiritualized version, soon and long after the collapse and didn't see advanced, E.T. like, technology being involved with our near and further future. 

Whose right? Two similar sources, or one different?   Did Storm perceive everything 100 percent correctly?   Does any source that we know of out there do that?

  The only way truly around this issue (interpreter overlay skewing info received), imo so far, is to become a pure channel and living expression of PUL to the nth degree, and merge your consciousness with the All.  But even then, when communicating with words, language acts as a barrier and skewing agent. 

Quote:

On the other hand I have received two messages that made the point that abductions have been done by unfriendly aliens. One said most. If what I received represents the truth, then it is hard to see how numerous Grey related abductions that serve a positive purpose fit in.

  No doubt with the first message.  Now isn't the 2nd message curious when it said that "most" abductions are done by negative E.T.'s?

  When, where, and who are the exceptions? 

  Again, you are assuming, and lumping all Greys into the same category with comments like the above.  Brown clearly and repeatedly saw that this was not the case with these time travelers.  That different groups from different times were interacting with humans.  Clearly he saw that some Grey groups were more spiritually evolved than others. 

Is it possible that some Grey groups, say further past ones, do more abductions with humans than say the latter, more evolved groups? 

  Is it possible that some supposedly "Grey" abductions were not performed by Greys to begin with, but people were given false memories by either the Reptilians or even the U.S. government?

Btw, not mentioned yet is that when it comes to abductions, a number of people have reported that abductions are not just being done by E.T.'s, but also by factions of black op government groups. 

  It is also commonly reported that like the Reptilians, the human groups doing abductions try to wipe out, manipulate, and/or generally alter a person's memory. In a number of cases through deep and intensive hypnotherapy, it's been reported that a supposedly "E.T. abduction" was actually done by a human group, but the human group tried to implant a false memory/perception about it!

  Boy, doesn't it all become rather complex and twisted with all these various factors and factions involved in "abductions"??!!

   So, let's not automatically assume that all "Grey abductions" were actually done by Greys, or that all Grey groups are created equal and all doing the same amount and type of abductions. 

Perhaps, perhaps, and this relates to your 2nd message, it's possible that some of the abductions that don't fit in the "most" involving "negative" E.T.'s, are done by a well intentioned, latter more evolved Grey group(s)?

  Could the occasional abductions, by the latter, more evolved Grey groups be the exception to the rule you got a message about? 

  What other group would that apply to? 

  Relating to the above post re: the influence of the U.S. government in the whole E.T. phenomena, one of Becky's dreams involving contact with positive E.T.s that came and asked her if she wanted to go with them to be trained (note, not forced, but asked)...

That she also saw triangular anti-gravity type craft flying over when the positive E.T.'s were in her house talking to her. 

She knew that the triangular craft was not from a positive source, and that's part of the reason why she was briefly initially suspicious of the E.T.'s in her home.  She wondered if they were connected to the black, triangular craft, but she soon lost her suspicion of them as she interacted with them and felt their love in general and towards her. 

  Later on, both of us got messages that these black triangular craft were not E.T. at all, but connected to super secret, U.S. black op technology. 

   I mention these messages because it relates to my earlier points of how involved certain aspects of the US government are with the whole E.T. phenomena. 

  Becky's dream implies that they had some awareness or knowledge that E.T's were in the area and they were patrolling and trying to look for them and their craft. 

  Some sources, even Brown's work, suggest that factions of the U.S. government is in cahoots with the Reptilian group in that we were (and/or are) being tricked by them promising us advanced technology in return for access to underground military installations, access to human subjects within these, help in covering up their existence and agenda, etc.

  Brown mentions in his 2nd book that while the Reptilians promised us advanced technology for the gov.'s help and silence or active deception, that this E.T. group was in reality giving them partially faulty or inadequate technology so that it couldn't be turned on them. 

  If factions of the US gov. would murder some 3000 people in a staged hoax (9/11), blame it on foreigners who we were told were attacking us, all for greed, corruptness, financial gain, impetus to wars, etc. i would not be surprised at all by the possibility that these same types might sell us out to a group of E.T.'s because of the promise of very advanced technology and weaponry.

  I know this will seem really 'out there' to some, but ask yourself what if it is true?  What are the implications for this especially since so many sources from many abductees to psychic sources indicate that the Reptilian group has some pretty negative intentions towards us as a race.

Knowing (awareness of) if not half, is least partially part of the battle.  At least so we don't become manipulated in our beliefs and perceptions. 

The more clear and accurate our beliefs and perceptions, the more we can free ourselves from false and limiting beliefs, then the more we can free others. 

   Or as said so well and long ago by The Teacher, the truth will help to set you free.

Justin:

Before this thread started I had already thought about most of the things you said. Nevertheless,  I need to receive information on my own before I conclude according to what Courtney Brown has written. I'd rather not know than rely on what somebody else has written.

Regarding this world changing for the better, yes, much isn't written in stone. On the other hand, I believe there are beings who have a pretty good idea of what direction this world is headed. They understand the manner in which souls are progressing and how they'll affect change.

Therefore, I'm inclined to believe what numerous people have said about a positive future, rather than the need for an M-planet for humans to be transported to (as Courtney wrote).

Hi

have you all heard of that new book on"Area 51: ..."?  That author says that the ETs found at Roswell were surgically altered adoescents from Russia, sent into space at Stalin's orders by Joseph Mengel in order to scare US citizens who had been so scared by Orson Welles/ radio broadcast.  (Whew, got it all into one sentence!  i didn't want to say too much  ;)  )

Bets

Hi,

Oh, my point was going to be something that I think it was Justin said recently--
that even evil events will be turned by the Ultimate Good for the ultimate good.  And the US responded to Roswell with increased curiosity and development in outer space and afterlife entities!  :)
Pretty neat, eh?

Bets

recoverer wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 4:42pm:

Justin: Before this thread started I had already thought about most of the things you said. Nevertheless,  I need to receive information on my own before I conclude according to what Courtney Brown has written. I'd rather not know than rely on what somebody else has written. Regarding this world changing for the better, yes, much isn't written in stone. On the other hand, I believe there are beings who have a pretty good idea of what direction this world is headed. They understand the manner in which souls are progressing and how they'll affect change. Therefore, I'm inclined to believe what numerous people have said about a positive future, rather than the need for an M-planet for humans to be transported to (as Courtney wrote).

  I've also have already considered many things that you have said previously.  It's good that you don't automatically accept Brown's version of things.  I don't, and not all of his info rings completely true to me. 

   Definitely it's important to go within and get messages and base beliefs more on that.   Yet, you have shared a number of outer sources here to bolster your perceptions.

  I'm just saying, that for me, the jury isn't out on the Greys and being completely black and white and assigning a one dimensional label of "negative" or "positive" to them.  By far, Brown is not the only source which has spoken positively, or in a more complex, balanced way about this group.

   My sense, time and time again, is that it's more complex and relative than a simple, black and white label of "negative" or "positive".  I don't apply such extremist labels to the huge majority of other humans, because it doesn't work that way.  Most people are a mix of positive and negative.

  What Brown originally described was a time of extreme challenge and because of that, a migration to another Planet.  This was in 94'. 

As i've mentioned, in his latter book he talks again about the future, and he doesn't talk about this earlier possibility.   He sees a possible future of the Earth which is quite positive.  However, he also sees a possible future which because of the influence of the Reptilians etc., which is much more bleak. 

  I figure we all have a part to play in this drama, and some more so than others. 

  I've also been shown possible or probable futures wherein humanity, or what's left of it, really gets its stuff together spiritually and everyone experiences a lot more happiness in a collective way.  But i always also have seen us going through a lot of challenge and am aware that a lot of people transition from physical to nonphysical (in the usual way) during those times.

betson wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 5:48pm:

Hi have you all heard of that new book on"Area 51: ..."?  That author says that the ETs found at Roswell were surgically altered adoescents from Russia, sent into space at Stalin's orders by Joseph Mengel in order to scare US citizens who had been so scared by Orson Welles/ radio broadcast.  (Whew, got it all into one sentence!  i didn't want to say too much  ;)  ) Bets

  I have not read the book, but i'm aware of it.  I don't know what happened or didn't at Roswell. 

  However, i always consider the source of information.  The author who wrote that book has a right wing, sensationalistic past.

She wrote an article in a paper about a group of Middle Eastern men and without any evidence whatsoever, but just rumour and rumour of rumours, accused them of being terrorists. 

  Turns out they were a band of musicians and definitely not terrorists.  In other words, she does not strike me as a serious journalist who checks out all her sources and facts before coming to conclusions and publicising them. 

  So yes, i always consider the source before i really consider the information.   There are also a lot of blatant holes in her story about Roswell.  Check out Lucy's link in the "Off topic section" to see some of the incisive comments discriminating her work.  Doesn't seem she researched the topic too thoroughly in a holistic way.

Some recent thoughts i had in relation to this topic.  When thinking about a conscious, freewilled group or Being, and thinking about them in terms of "negative" or "positive", we have to really understand what these terms mean and question to what degree is a group or individual Being "negative" or "positive".

   I've gotten information that some E.T. groups involved with Earth are so spiritually mature and attuned to Source Consciousness, that we could say that they are purely, or almost purely, "positive" in nature. 

  If you read "Cosmic Journeys" by Rosiland A. McKnight, you will see that she interacts a couple of times with an E.T. group very much like this.  She understood on a knowing level that these were very fast vibratory and expanded consciousnesses--particularly the "leader" type she interacted with who appeared as a tall, androgynous Being and who was very wise and spiritually developed.

  It's interesting to note that when Rosiland's Guidance was addressing a group that does abductions and implants people, her guidance still said that this group was more evolved as a collective, than was humanity.   Apparently some forget this part of her work conveniently. 

   This is interesting if it applies to the "Greys", because my intuition has been that while they are not spiritually evolved and fully positive like some E.T. groups interacting with the Earth (like the group Rosie described), they are still more evolved as a group than humanity. 

  In other words, much like humanity at least in this one respect, they have both positive and negative elements within them.   A better way to put it, is that they are not as spiritually evolved as the more purely positive and Source attuned E.T. groups that are involved with us.  The group Rosie described and which interacts with us, seemed like Earth's caretakers and seemed involved with seeding and/or monitoring life in many parts of the Universe.  In fact, we are told that they don't even originate from this Galaxy. 

  So, i for one, am very hesitant to assign one dimensional, black and white labels of either just "negative" or "positive" to the Greys or most E.T. groups involved with us now.    It's clear to me, and always has been since i've pondered this issue, that the Greys still need to spiritually evolve more before we could call them more purely positive.  Hence they have "negative" elements within them.

   Even with the Reptilians, if Brown's work is considered, then the issue is more complex.   In Brown's work, he and other Remote Viewers perceive that the Reptilian group that is now interacting with us in a destructive way is actually a renegade faction or subset group of a larger race.   Surprisingly, most of the rest of the race is less hostile and aggressive.  When they tuned into some of the individuals from the other factions or groups of the Reptilians, they picked up strong spiritual flavors and feelings.

  It seems like unlike with the Greys, this group is more similar to humans and humanity in that there is a greater measure of independence of individuals within this Race, and that some factions are more negative or positive than others.  Isn't this just like humans? 

  If an outside group was to judge humanity based on observing only the Nazis, Stalin's group, or in the more present time the Bush Admin., no doubt this outside group would be like, "wow, these Beings known as humans are extremely negative and destructive!"   
Yet, we know that this doesn't apply to all of us.  We are somewhat destructive and lack PUL attunement as a whole or collective, but our "leaders" etc. often have a strong influence on our societies and oft times these are much more negative than many of the individuals in a society.  In humanity in particular it seems that more destructive types tend to be more attracted to and gravitate to positions of power and influence. 

  Now the Greys are very different.  Many, many, many sources which talk about them, mention that they are a fully telepathic and connected Race, to the extent where they lack both individuality and a ability to feel in an emotional sense, in a limiting way. 

  Don't they sound a lot like the group that Bruce interacted with in these respect?  Also, while Bruce doesn't specifically mention "Greys" in connection with this group, i seem to remember that at another part of his work he mentions seeing E.T. faces which resembled the Greys.  I may be wrong about this though. 

   What's interesting to me in relation to the above is that when Courtney Brown Remote Viewed the future Greys, in a target about "God", he saw that they had become pure Light Beings, an entire race of Beings all like Jesus!   

  Hmmm, and when Bruce and his TMI group helped the Gathering group to feel love and a greater sense of individuality...  what happened?   PUL and the feeling experience of same, helped to transform them into rather powerfully PUL channelling and generating Beings, and in a very collective sense. 

  What's possibly missing from Bruce's account is a much longer history or back story.   This is where (and i just got a flash pinpoint of White Light when i started to think and write this) the genetic program of the Greys and their mixing their DNA with ours to create hybrid Beings comes into play. 

  Say theoretically that Bruce was interacting with the Grey-Human hybrid members of this fully telepathic race (in such a case, they would not appear as very "Grey" like in a physical sense, would they?).  Say they were more equipped, with their partial human genetics, to experience the pleasurable feelings of PUL and a greater sense of individuality...

  Perhaps, the combo of their genetic program, and their experiences with people like Bruce Moen, is what leads to the future Greys that Brown Remote Viewed when his target was "God"?   Pure Light Beings fully aware of and intune with the Source Consciousness.  I don't think it is a mistake or "accident" that i saw this pinpoint flash of White Light when i started to think and write this down.  I sometimes get this as a confirmation sign from Guidance that the info presented is expanded truth.  The future Greys that Brown saw the probability of, and the now PUL transformed Gathering group that Bruce and his TMI partners worked with, sound pretty similar in their now intense attunement to PUL.  Both groups were originally 1. extremely collective and lack individuality, and 2. both groups were extremely non in touch with an emotional or feeling way of perceiving.

  (in any case, we may still have past, less evolved Grey groups still interacting with humanity). 

How do we know that Greys at all are based on DNA or carbon?

PauliEffectt wrote on May 25^th, 2011 at 12:32pm:

How do we know that Greys at all are based on DNA or carbon?

  Well, until we get a tissue sample, i guess we will have to rely on our own inner guidance, and/or looking at a wide cross section of other people's experience. 

  Many abductees, both male and female, have reported experiences with Grey-Human hybrids.  In many cases, they are asked to hold a baby which is hybrid in nature.   In many of those cases, the humans involved are very aware that the baby is a part of them, e.g. that the baby, young child (sometimes teens), actually contains some of their genetic material. 

As far as guidance goes, one can get guidance in many different ways.  One doesn't necessarily have to sit or lie down, meditate, receive images, etc.  If one has made a practice enough of the above in other lives and/or in this life, then one becomes more automatically intuitive in a knowing way.

I just earlier experienced a confirmation from Guidance when i saw the pinpoint flash of bright White Light while thinking about and writing down this information.  I've had this experience before when either reading or writing something which felt very true on an intuitive inner level.  (it's most common with spiritual, consciousness, or Earth change issues or information).

  Relating to Paulieffect's earlier questions and my answer, here is a link to a video of Dr. John Mack appearing on the Oprah Show, with some of his former patients.

  One of his patients talks about holding a Grey-Human hybrid baby, and he knew on a deep level that the baby was a part of him (had his genetics in him).  He had had experiences in the past wherein the Greys took samples of his sperm. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-ufuNtpQd0   

  I don't remember if it's in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd part. 

Quick update:  The part of the abductee talking about holding a Grey-Human hybrid baby starts at about 7:27 during the 3rd part of the recording of the Oprah Show.

I figure there are two possibilities as to why Greys abduct people and breed hybrids.

1. Their consciousness will transmigrate from their Grey bodies to the hybrid bodies. They'll use the hybrid bodies with the thought of taking over this world. Kay Wilson had an experience where she saw a transmigration take place. The body of an old Grey died and its consciousness entered the body of a young hybrid. Kay said there were two conscious beings within one body at the same time. I don't know if she misunderstood what took place with this double occupancy.

2. The same as the above with no thought of overtaking this world.

I meditated a bit and asked what version is true. I felt love, peace and expansiveness as I did so. Nevertheless, I didn't receive a noticeable answer.

Afterwards I thought that if I was a part of a race of beings that made mistakes and evolved in a bad way, I wouldn't expect another race to go through what abductees go through in order to correct my mistakes.

Couldn't the souls of Greys just simply incarnate into human bodies or another suitable vehicle if they want to experience human like emotions? If other souls have a first time when they have a human-like experience, then why can't Greys also have such a first time without having to create hybrid bodies?

I also wonder why abductions take place in negative ways. If Greys are in fact working with beings with divine intent, why don't those beings make it so Greys abduct people in a way that isn't so negative? For example, why do people have to experience physical pain during abductions. Abductees have said that Greys will use very painful procedures without some form of pain killer.

I need to clarify this, some abductees explain their experiences in a way which suggests that Greys have no sensitivity at all, while some say that Greys will in some way ask an abductee what can be done so the abductee won't be afraid.

Addressing something Justin said, there are times when I refer to what various sources say. I tend to do so after I had experiences that correspond with what such sources say.  For example, Jesus, Disk, unfriendly alien and earth change experiences (and messages). Therefore, until I personally receive information that shows that Greys don't have bad intent, I won't assume that they don't.

I don't know what George Kavassilas is all about, but if you go by him, the Galactic Federation Courtney Brown speaks about might not be light oriented. Is the same thing meant by the term George and Courtney use?


http://camelotforum.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=25&id=2879&Itemid=164

From the link:


Take a look at this speaker, he seems like someone Camelot should interview soon : George Kavassilas, he indicated he is from the Galactic Council of Light. He touches on All the issues...

He says that where he comes from it is different from 'Galactic Federation of Light' which he says is made of greys and Nordics which are really reptillian and they appear to be from love and want to help but they are actually evil.

I doubt that you can fake love.

recoverer wrote on May 25^th, 2011 at 5:25pm:

Couldn't the souls of Greys just simply incarnate into human bodies or another suitable vehicle if they want to experience human like emotions? If other souls have a first time when they have a human-like experience, then why can't Greys also have such a first time without having to create hybrid bodies?

Perhaps some of them have incarnated into human bodies?   But, if i was a highly telepathic Being part of a very collective hive like existance, i would be hesitant to incarnate into such a difficult and chaotic world as Earth.  Souls run a risk of really forgetting themselves for awhile if they come here.   Particularly in the case of the Greys where in their original past (as seen by Brown), they were much like humans in that they became way too over materialistic and hedonistic and that was a huge part of their down fall.  Humans currently, as a whole, are far too materialistic and hedonistic.   

  Also, Karma doesn't work this way.  If one creates problems for oneself, one has to to see it through and work out the problems as much as one can.  One certainly can get help, but switching completely to another race etc. would be kind of an escapism of the problems one has caused for oneself.  Are there enough human bodies to be able to cover the need for ALL individual Grey consciousnesses? 


Quote:

I also wonder why abductions take place in negative ways. If Greys are in fact working with beings with divine intent, why don't those beings make it so Greys abduct people in a way that isn't so negative? For example, why do people have to experience physical pain during abductions. Abductees have said that Greys will use very painful procedures without some form of pain killer.

  There are a few different possible explanations for the above, but before i go into that it's important to mention that not all Grey related abductions involve physical pain.   In some cases, it's reported the Greys numb the body before doing painful procedures. 

  Now, as to the other explanations, are you open minded at all to the possibility that the Greys have had a mastery of space/time travel for a long time, and that there are potentially different Grey groups from different times interacting with humans in our "present" times?   That the latter, more evolved Greys are more mindful of the pain factor? 

  Are you at all open minded to the possibility of Reptilian deception in some cases of supposed "Grey abduction"? 


Quote:

Addressing something Justin said, there are times when I refer to what various sources say. I tend to do so after I had experiences that correspond with what such sources say.  For example, Jesus, Disk, unfriendly alien and earth change experiences (and messages)

.

  Yet, from these same sources you quote or mention, you've left out other pertinent info than could contradict your perceptions. 

  For example, you mentioned Rosiland A. McKnight's info in Cosmic Journey's about so called "negative" E.T.'s and how they said that less evolved E.T.'s are the ones that abduct and implant people. 

  Yet, in that same book her guidance mentions that the less evolved group that implants and abducts people is still on a higher level than humanity in their evolution.   If that is the case, they probably aren't too completely "negative" are they?  This possibly quite contradicts your perception of the degree of negativity you see in the Greys.


Quote:

Therefore, until I personally receive information that shows that Greys don't have bad intent, I won't assume that they don't.

  I recently received confirmation of some of my perceptions and intuitions regarding this matter.  The matter is now clear to me.  Yet, i should have listened more fully to my intuition before hand and not let outside sources make me doubt.  It was because of that doubt, and not fully listening to my intuition, that i needed a more overt sign or indication from guidance. 

  I hope the above quote of yours doesn't mean that you will presume guilty until proven innocent?   Mankind is somewhat negative as a whole, and that's not even a law amongst us.