Has anybody had this experience? People know you for a while without thinking you're nuts, but as soon as they hear you do things such as communicate with spirits and go out of body they wonder about your sanity.

That's why we need an afterlife commune, Recoverer!

You could be the head honcho  ;) just because you're male and older :D    We could take vows to not give up our free will  :D  :D and to not proselytize and to support the need that someone needs to do the chores....

Hahah I'm joking !

Afterlife beliefs must be very important even to those who have none.  Even here we don't always avoid conflict.  People just have to experience it for themselves, then they are more apt to accept experiences others have had, don't you think?

Would it help if we could establish a ratio between inquiries of others' experience and statements about our own 'known' encounters?

Betson

Actually they don't think you are crazy at all. They think you are a little hokey and believe in fantasy.

You see, they believe that you believe what you believe.

They don't think you are crazy. They do think you are accepting these "spiritual" beliefs as factual proofs without sufficient scientific data however.

(Scientifically tested and verified data being considered logical and factual, spiritual hocus pocus being considered "faith" which could be and is highly suspect and questionable.)

Before I began my spiritual search, about 12 years ago, I took a martial arts class (aikido) in a dojo near my house.  There was a guy named Frank there who was very well educated.  However, at times, he went off about how he contacted mediums, received messages from his deceased sister through them, etc. which made me think he was off his rocker.  It is funny in retrospect, but at the time, I remember wondering - how it was that I could have a normal conversation with him at one minute and the next be talking to someone who believed in such nonsense?

Of course, deep down, we all want to believe that life has a meaning; that there is an afterlife and a grand plan to it all; that life is more about existing for a short time in a cold, cruel physical world and then, somewhat randomly being snuffed out forever.

My answer to Albert is that you can't talk to a "non-spiritual" person about spirit and the afterlife without coming across like either a loon or a simpleton.  However, there is an "in-between," and this is what I strive for when I talk with my patients about death.  I don't give them my "knowns" about the afterlife or consciousness.  Rather, I posit questions to them which allows their minds to leave the door open to the possibility of an afterlife.  I mention near death experiences (NDEs), and talk about how difficult it is to locate consciousness or thought in any one area of the brain.  I talk about Princeton's P.E.A.R. lab, which showed that human intent or will could change the outcome of random number generator machines.  And then, I simply pose the question - are they (the person), sure that all they think that they are (a human being solely existing due to a biological process) is all that there is?

Most patients (and friends I talk with) will then admit that they really don't know.  My hope is, that without talking further about OOB, spiritual guides, etc. right away, that the conversation leads the person to be open about the possibilities.

You see, the post-mortem state appears to be based on your inner most thoughts and convictions. Bruce has documented cases of those "stuck" in the afterlife, because they truly expected death to be a "sleep without end."  People who ask for help after they pass over, and expect help, seem to get it.  People who believe in nothing, get what they believe.

So I like to open the door to the idea that we are more than our physical bodies, and at least initially, leave it at that.

Matthew

Terethian:

That's a good point. There may be cases when people believe we have off-base beliefs rather than think we're crazy.

Betson:

Maybe if I tell them I'm a head honcho, they'll take me more seriously. ;)

Doc:

That sounds like a good approach.

I could just be really thick about it, of course, but I find that most of the people I talk with are surprised and have a renewed interest in the subject of the afterlife once I show some studies that are both pro and con and they see for themselves what the evidence is actually proving and not proving. But its kind of one of those things where you have to cater your presentation to each person as I have found that in my experience the same argument rarely works more than once because we all have such differing expectations.

I like Matthew's approach.  I don't tend to talk much at all about such stuff with most people i know or meet, unless i get some kind of clue or cue (or feel nudged by guidance) that they are at least somewhat open minded about such things already.   Yes, probably hard to believe from preachy forum Justin.  :P ;) :D

  But as an alternative option, though it's not really about the Afterlife, mentioning the book "The Field" by Lynne McTaggart to those firmly entrenched in C1 Consciousness as an excellent book which suggests that there is more than physical, could be a way to create a crack in narrow, over physical beliefs.

  I have told people just simply something like, "yeah, it's a really interesting book and much is based on hard science and well documented experiments."

Albert, how close are you to these people who are questioning your sanity?  Does it really matter what they think?

The only person who has told me to my face I'm nuts is my ex, but who cares what he thinks?   :)

I've been slowly becoming more confident in talking to people about what I think, believe, and do, and I'm surprised that a lot of people are interested or have had some of their own experiences and are happy to have a chance to talk about it.  People who I had no idea would be interested. 

Vicky

Vicky:

No, it doesn't matter what people think.  I first told some relatives about OBEs about 30 years ago--they gave me funny looks--and after all this time I don't mind that they question my discrimination about what I experienced. Plus, they think I'm odd because I was involved with a guru for a while (years ago).

Going by my experience and the experience of others, some people have a hard time understanding why people get involved with gurus. For example, a few years ago I spoke to a former member of the guru-based group I used to belong to, and he said that his wife thinks of his prior involvement with a guru in a judgmental way. She doesn't understand that intelligent people with good intentions get involved with gurus.

One of the reasons my former girlfriend and I get along so well (we''re still friends) is because we both have been involved with gurus and understand that such involvement doesn't necessarily mean that those involved have some sort of character flaw.

In his book "Enlightenment Blues" Andre van der Braak said:

"...and she [Ute...a lady who used to be a member of a guru-based cult Andre used to belong to] tells me about her attempts to build a new life for herself, trying to find a good job and a good man. We complain to each other about how difficult it is to get into a good relationship with someone who doesn't understand what we went through with Andrew [their former guru Andrew Cohen]." 

Anyway, there have been some potential friendships that didn't manifest because potential friends thought what I had to say to be a bit much.

There could be a limit to how close you can get to somebody if you can't tell them about the most important part of your life.

recoverer wrote on Apr 10^th, 2011 at 6:09pm:

There could be a limit to how close you can get to somebody if you can't tell them about the most important part of your life.

I agree, and I'd add that there's a limit to how much you can let them get close to you.  I'm actually currently working on that in my life, realizing that I not only have a protective barrier from letting others in too close, but that I also have been protecting myself from a lot of things.  Even myself!  Long story.   :)  I'm happy to still be on my journey. 

I wish you luck with yours too.

Justin,
"I don't tend to talk much at all about such stuff with most people i know or meet, unless i get some kind of clue or cue (or feel nudged by guidance) that they are at least somewhat open minded about such things already. Yes, probably hard to believe from preachy forum Justin."

Not really hard to believe. :) I also get cues and clues, and also put them out but I find it's a long way from someone having "weird experiences" to some of you people here. I find Aquarius incarnations to be a lot of fun, even when some have roles that seem to be primarily about C1. C1 seems to be the most common incarnations, and it's all very well. Fortunately there are surprises along the way though.

I for one don't think anyone on here is crazy at all. I just think that many people are able to accept a far larger % of faith to cover the unexplained or they think that the unexplained is explained through faith. Faith and fact however, are two different things. Faith does not make something true. Faith won't make a red car blue and faith won't make the afterlife exist. It's either exists as a fact, or does not exist as a fact. I simply choose to require solid factual data instead of faith.

I am not opposed to the afterlife being a definite possibility, or I would not be here. Trust me, I don't even last 5 minutes on the atheist forums. If you think I am closed minded, try visiting one of them... it's sick. They are completely certain the afterlife does not exist and the part that shocks me the most....

They are HAPPY that there is no afterlife.   :o

I'm not a faith person either, T. I have days when I find an afterlife hard to swallow, but its not usually because of something that has been scientifically proven against it, because I find those examples to be rather faith based as well. Even gravity, it now seems, may turn out to be electrical current instead as they probe deeper into the abyss that is "reality". I think the days when I have doubts are days when I get depressed for a day or so, but those days aren't as frequent as they used to be. And it is funny how died in the wool atheists enjoy their stance on the afterlife without ever acknowledging that much of the science upholding their position is based on assumptions that don't necessarily hold up to the very scrutiny used to disprove said afterlife. Heck I have days when the last thing in the world I want is to continue for eternity, but if there is some purpose behind it that I can grasp, whether I can prove it to anyone else or not, it does keep me going. I don't consider that faith merely because it is unverifiable to others.

Regarding faith, it depends upon what you mean by "faith." If you mean an inaccurate belief system, then faith might not mean a lot. If you mean what your heart, intuition and inner guidance says rather than what your intellect tells you, then faith means a lot. I believe it is best for faith to based on love and humility rather than fear.

I've had numerous very interesting energetic experiences for which it was hard to know for certain what was going on. Fortunately, I listened to my heart and intuition, allowed the energetic work to take place, and benefited in a way that otherwise would not had been possible. I benefited in a way that not only helps me, but the spirit beings I assist.

Sure there are things that are unexplained, but on the other hand many things do get explained. It is possible for a person's overall non-physical experiences to happen in a way where he is certain that more than a selective imagination is determining what he knows.

Volu wrote on Apr 11^th, 2011 at 11:57am:

Not really hard to believe. :) I also get cues and clues, and also put them out but I find it's a long way from someone having "weird experiences" to some of you people here. I find Aquarius incarnations to be a lot of fun, even when some have roles that seem to be primarily about C1. C1 seems to be the most common incarnations, and it's all very well. Fortunately there are surprises along the way though.

  That's interesting, and i likewise tend to find Aquarian Suns, or people with strong Aquarius quite interesting or i'm more strongly drawn to them.

  I remember you said you were a Capricorn Sun, that means it's somewhat probable that you have Venus in Aquarius.  Is that the case?    I do, and it goes along with my experience of often liking or being drawn to people with very strong Aquarius indications (also helps with having Leo Rising, as opposite energies attract or polarize).

Hey Justin,
"I remember you said you were a Capricorn Sun, that means it's somewhat probable that you have Venus in Aquarius. Is that the case?"

A Capricorn, and since every other sign is progressive in comparision, every day brings something interesting. :D Aquarius in the 4th house. Venus in Sagittarius. Jupiter in Aries. Back in the day when I smoked weed I thought astrologers and people into astrology were kind of like Obelix, only they had fallen into giant bowls of weed. 'How can stars and the like tell anything about a spirit? Who are you kidding?' My Aquarius friend's interest got me curious though, and fortunately managed to see through the Neptunian fog. I don't grasp how astrology works when putting it on an analytical scale, but it does. For me at least.

I have to agree about astrology. I can't fathom how it can make any real sense and yet it does, especially when it comes to looking at a person's character. I am always drawn to water signs as I am one. And I've gotten to where I can just tell the water signs or at least the water rising so to speak.

If the next level of consciousness coincides with this level do people use vehicles to get around or how exactly do they travel. I just watched a video that said, the next level coincides with this one and some of the people don't know they are dead. Something about people waiting for buses and going about business similar to this world. Does this mean I'm going to wake up in the afterlife and find myself still in need of a wheelchair? Or will I be able to get around by thought?

Skyrider,
When I was nursing and while oob I met up with a former patient who had died. He told me some of what he was doing since his death. I had only known him as paralized in a wheelchair, but after death he was walking about. I also saw another patient who didn't need her wheelchair after death. But then I saw a man who had lost his legs in life and still had no legs after death, but he was getting around by thought quite easily. I think most of it depends on how soon the individual learns how the astral world works. I imagine they "learn the ropes" either quickly or after a while. If you have an out of body experience I think you'll see that you'll get around pretty efficiently without the chair.   

Are there any oobers who come to this forum?