All,
I am sure this topic has been explored here many times, however I would like to ask what the transition may be like for those with severe dementia? I have a friend whose wife just passed, and she was in the final stages of Alzheimer's. So I am curious and a bit worried for her.  Thanks.

Hi Bardo,

My impression is that because the consciousness is no longer constricted by a faulty brain that the transition is not affected by disease.

This is one of my major issues with the afterlife theory. Proving that mind and body are separate seems a key goal to prove the afterlife, yet, as science will clearly show, the brain is directly related to everything that we are......

At least on the surface.

Lastly, any data and studies that attempt to prove that mind and body are separate are nowhere near as convincing as the ones that show the obvious effects that the mind and body are one.

Hi Terethian,
"This is one of my major issues with the afterlife theory. Proving that mind and body are separate seems a key goal to prove the afterlife, yet, as science will clearly show, the brain is directly related to everything that we are."

If you let it, science can show you everything you are. A decaying organic computer that posts funny snippets of itself falling on YouTube. Fitter, happier, and everything is dandy in the repetitious world of being a body. Shape that body, tone that body, be that body, because YOU're worth it. Works out well 'til old death comes by to remind you that the body is circling the drain.

Choose life:
http://tiny.cc/5lbxf

There are some great books of late that have been written debunking the mainstream science answer to the afterlife. Science can't find consciousness anywhere in the brain but they think they have proof that the brain supplies it. But that proof is based on assumptions that have already been taken on. Chris Carter has written a great book on this subject and I mention the title in another post from a few months ago, but it escapes me at the moment as I lent the book to a friend after I read it.

Wait, here is the link at amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Science-Near-Death-Experience-Consciousness-Survives/dp/1594773564/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1302360728&sr=8-1

Still he sites some sketchy evidence in places but he uses very little of it and he really explores the evidence that is pretty obvious and the evidence that certain scientists use to make their assertions. In the end its up to the reader to decide of course, but being informed I think would be paramount.

Thanks Beau, Volu. I think it would be helpful to myself and others if we use this thread as an opportunity to post evidence of separation of mind and body. I will definitely look into it. I am not saying it is impossible, I am just saying that the general consensus is that mind and body are the same and it seems like the logical and correct answer.

When you say "Mind" it kind of requires a definition for the purpose of discussion I think. I would respond that the mind is an incessant babbler and very much associated with the brain. Consciousness however is the interpreter of data before it gets acted on by the mind and it is the energy aspect of, (I don't know about eternal but,) life beyond this one physical existence.

In terms of posting the evidence I just need to know what I am refuting. So if you post some scientific data proving that the brain produces consciousness I will try to find the sources I have seen that will refute that evidence and then I suppose one could then refute that. There is a great deal of information out there for both points of view. Is it proof positive? I don't think so. It is the subjective experience that is going to make the greatest impression on someone. But that being said, it is not a daunting task to figure out there are more possibilities, perhaps even more likely ones, than those offered by mainstream science.

And if you start, as mainstream science does, with the view that only the physical exists and counts, so everything has to be proven within that limited view, you can never accept the view or any evidence that the nonphysical and consciousness beyond the body can exist.  Your initial fundamental belief keeps you stuck in the physical.

Terethian,
"I think it would be helpful to myself and others if we use this thread as an opportunity to post evidence of separation of mind and body."

Along with the coat and magnifying glass, one dude/dudette who REALLY wants to go the astral and a rope. Tie the rope to something sturdy. Rope around the neck of the subject and let go. Study the split. Every body's different, but very possible that the arms have adopted a born to be wild attitude, even though the mind wants for 'em to play dead too.

With that much life and self-determination in the arms, I'd actually be quite pleasant if they sometimes unhooked and got some milk in the store.

I'm interested in engaging in this discussion.  But I'm having trouble with definition of terms, and think it would be easier to proceed if we all agreed on what we're talking about.

Does "mind" = "consciousness"?
Does "brain" = "mind"?
or does "brain" = a part of the "body"? 

I'm confused. 

I have started reading an older book "The Holographic Universe"  and it's fascinating!  Anyone else have anything to say about that book? 

That's exactly why this topic is so fascinating, Calypso!   
No one is too sure of the edges of those realms.

Brain does seem to be mostly for the body and other physical matters (like figuring income tax  ;), naming flowers, etc.) Brain doesn't equal mind.

Consciousness can exist separate from the physical body, as it goes with us when we're OB, phasing, etc. It connects to other sources, specifically The Source.

Mind might be the personal store of consciousness, but I'm not sure about that.

Hope you get some other 'answers.'
Bets

As interesting as your new topic of discussion on this existing thread is, I am still interested in people's answer to my actual question. What are your thoughts on the transition to non-physical realms for people with severe dementia?

Hi Bardo

Most sources say that the brain doesn't go into the afterlife, but if thoughts have become deep-set attitudes then those attitudes and interests can carry over.

In the afterlife there are healing places for people who think they are still sick, which in the long run is an attitude about themselves.  They stay in the healing place until they become convinced, with the help of loved ones or helpers, that they are well. (I believe I've visited several souls in the afterlife who have been in these healing states. It's all for the good.)

That's a general overview to a rather general inquiry. If there were anything more specific you could add, you'd probably get a more specific answer.  :) 

Betson

Betson,
Thanks for the reply. I am wondering if:
a) Dementia is a belief system in and of itself, or
b) It is actually the absense of any belief system (a return to innocence)
If (a), then would the soul be consigned to a belief system territory (I guess similar to the recover room you describe). If (b), then maybe they get a free pass due to the lack of any  remaining constraints imposed by the mind on the soul. 

For me, its a question of virtual reality. Once free of the physical world rule set the consciousness heals if you will or better yet recovers from the illusion that was imposed on the virtual brain that was the means to process information. It is a good system that has evolved over a long period. A brain damaged person is not a damaged consciousness but the ability to express in the physical can be greatly hampered. Its just an opinion based subjective research and a lot reading.

Really a very interesting topic. 

My mother (83) has begun to have some dementia, coupled with depression (this is how the doctors have diagnosed it)  that began after my Dad died about two years ago.

She will sometimes forget that Dad has died, or forget how long it's been.  So she'll say things like "What do you mean, he died?  I just saw him there on the couch a few minutes ago!"  Or, "What do you mean it's been nearly two years?  It was just a month ago!"  Other times, she is perfectly "normal". 

I too ask myself if the conventional medical explanation is really correct - that her mind is "damaged".  Or, like Beau suggests, is her consciousness starting to let go of the physical, little by little?  And is dementia a beginning of a "return to innocence" as Bardo suggests?

When Mom's consciousness is in a state where she is letting go of the physical, could she not really be SEEING (with her consciousness) my Dad sitting on the couch?  And in letting go of the physical is she also letting go of time, moving back and forth between the present and the time he died?

I'm not trying to glorify or make more palatable the state of dementia.  I'm beginning to see just how difficult and heartbreaking this will be going forward, assuming it progresses. 

But I'm wondering if there might be something fundamentally incorrect in our typical perception of a person with dementia or other so called mental illnesses.  We are stuck looking at things from such a conventional and maybe narrow perspective because we are stuck in the physical and stuck in time.

Reminds me of Castanada and "A Separate Reality" a little...