http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McMoneagle

Joe is an instructor at the Monroe Institute and was employed by the government as a remote viewer. He believes that we did not come from primates, but creatures that resemble sea otters. Does anyone know more about his claims, their validity, etc.?

Firstly, the Monroe Institute is a "non profit organization" in which some human beings profit from.

A trip there typically involves thousands of dollars, of which, the typical 20k or less per year hard working American cannot hope to pay for. The entire organization is comical in that it maintains a non profit status when It does not merit such.

Further, this statement that humans evolved from sea otters can be assumed a scientific statement which would require some sort of evolutionary evidence.

Please note, evolution is a process in which we cannot study as it happens, we can only look at the results of skeletons and biological life forms.

However, it is likely that man kind most resembles apes/macaques etc. and evidence of transitional skeletons has in fact been found to support such claims.

The sea otter/human transitional skeletons are somewhat lacking to my knowledge....

Sadly, claims like this further assist my scientific assessment that TMI is not trustworthy.

Terethian, I doubt that there is a nonprofit institution around that doesn't have "some human beings" profiting from it, whether through the salaries paid by the institution to all the people who keep in operating or otherwise.  But there are no shareholders or owners who receive profits simply as such, which is what distinguishes a for-profit and a nonprofit institution. 

While it may be unfortunate that not everyone can afford the under $2,000 price (with frequent discounts of hundreds of dollars) to attend a weeklong program at TMI (which includes transportation from and to the local airport, lodging and delicious meals and constant snacks, in addition to the programs themselves), that fact does not have anything to do with whether TMI "merits" its nonprofit status.

Terethian, Not sure what your problem is with TMI but it would seem that you know little about it, or what it offers. I am not saying that the price tag isn't high for some people, but when you get what you need for that cost, its not high at all. How can you say its not a nonprofit? Perhaps you should look at the online financials before you continue to stick your fat feet in your mouth.(Did I get that backwards?) They are available for anyone to read. Just go to their site or give them a call to get the web address. I think Joe could have said that we came from amino acids and that would have some up in arms that it wasn't monkeys mentioned. How about we came from God? Or for women, a rib. My ex might have came from a McRib for that matter. That's not saying she was fat and greasy mind you. Just unpleasant, and she did leave a foul taste in my mouth. And just like a McRib she keeps coming back and giving me heartburn. All kidding aside, I have gone to TMI three times. I found it worth every penny charged. Top notch. Life changing stuff. I am not the only one who found it so.  So why the sour grapes Terethian?   

Terethian,


wrote on Mar 18^th, 2011 at 2:29pm:

. . . Sadly, claims like this further assist my scientific assessment that TMI is not trustworthy.

I have attended TMI a number of times and I highly recommend TMI's program.  Yes, they are not cheap.  At my income level I can no longer afford to attend their programs. But I feel that what I paid to attend TMI programs was more than worth every penny.

I completely disagree with your assumption that the personally held beliefs of an instructor have any bearing  on TMI's trustworthiness.  It's like saying that Duke University is untrustworthy because one of their professors believes that humans are not the result of evolution.

I know Joe personally and have never heard him discuss the beliefs you attribute to him.  If those were, or are, his beliefs I fail to see what difference it makes to anyone attending TMI programs.  I know Joe often is a speaker at TMI programs, but if he is an actual TMI program instructor that would be new news to me. Regardless, from my experience attending many of their programs it is my opinion that TMI instructors are extremely careful to avoid having their personally held beliefs influence participants in any way.

Bruce

TMI "tape":
http://www.monroeinstitute.org/downloads/explorer-series-27-the-origins-of-man/

In the above TMI Explorer "tape" around 4:00 - 7:10, one of the Explorer talks about some creatures who look like sea otters, very human like, intelligence in the eyes, stand upright, etc. I have no clue who this Explorer is, but it seems that the initials are HAP.

Remember that the sea otter impression can be an astral representation, and not the real creature.

---

There exists a water ape theory. For some time time apes lived at the beach, and developed into humans, then left the beach, see link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_hypothesis

Man has by that theory achived some features, which apes mostly lack, except for the ape http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proboscis_Monkey

Man has almost no hair on the body, similar to many water mammals in warm waters. Woman have longer hair so children can hang on to them in water.

Man's feet have developed from "hands" into "flippers" and man's body has straightened out to better fit swimming in water. Man can swim very fast compared to a gorilla.

Man has a different nose than chimps & gorillas. Man's nose prevents water entering when submerged, looking for food like sea shells. Put a gorilla's head under water and it will flood and it will panic.

Man has http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subcutaneous_fat which chimps and gorillas lack, but that kind of fat is developed by all sea mammals.

Man automatically switches to (a limited form of) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradycardia , which only sea mammals do when their face is submerged into water, but which chimps and gorillas don't do.

---

The book, by Joseph McMoneagle & Charles T. Tart, where sea otters may be mentioned could be this one (see reader comments):
http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Time-Machine-Perception-Predictions/product-reviews/157174102X/ref=cm_cr_pr_top_link_next_2?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&pageNumber=2&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending
Title: The Ultimate Time Machine: A Remote Viewer’s Perception of Time, and Predictions for the New Millennium

Everyone who has "psychic percepts" (for lack of a better term) sooner or later comes up against the question of what to think or do about psychic data that just doesn't fit in with one's expectations, beliefs, prejudices, preconceptions, etc. etc. One could be so wedded to pre-existing interpretations that the percepts simply get "squashed" or fall off the radar screen altogether and into the subconscious memory dump. To, I think, his great credit, Joe (whom I also know personally, though we have never discussed this particular topic) doesn't subconsciously or consciously censor this kind of anomalous data. He even publishes it. But it's precisely through the investigation of things that just don't fit our preconceptions, or anomalies (literally, "lawbreakers"), that new ideas, paradigms, and discoveries are made. Plus, if the past is, as Joe believes (and I do, too), as "plastic" as the future is, then perhaps what we think and perceive about the evidence for it is as important as the "evidence itself" (whatever that is, because nothing is anything until and unless it is perceived). Have an otter day!   

bird wrote on Mar 17^th, 2011 at 12:17pm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McMoneagle Joe is an instructor at the Monroe Institute and was employed by the government as a remote viewer. He believes that we did not come from primates, but creatures that resemble sea otters. Does anyone know more about his claims, their validity, etc.?

Hi Bird,

As far as I'm aware there isn't any supporting evidence for this claim, but yes i'm aware that this was part of one of his R.V. sessions, and it's written in his "The Ultimate Time Machine" book.

My sense from having researched him and his work a bit is that McMoneagle does have notable and fairly consistent accuracy when it comes to R.V.'ing physical objects relatively in our time/space cycle and reference. 

But not as high an accuracy rate when it comes to other stuff like more complex processes or future or far past stuff. 

I will say there is an interesting bit of corroboration in his book "Ultimate Time Machine" with some of Edgar Cayce's info about Yeshua (Jesus Christ). 

  Many years ago in giving a couple of physical descriptions of Yeshua, Cayce's guidance described Yeshua as not looking particularly Hebrew or Aryan like, and in two different readings mentioned that he had noticeably reddish hair.   Well, more specifically in one reading was described as a mix of light brown,  reddish, and golden. 

  Bob Monroe set up a R.V. like session with McMoneagle wherein he put a target in an envelope and asked Joe to try to remote view some information about said target.  This is not a true R.V. session as the military developed though.

  Joe did pick up that the target was Jesus, and interestingly described Jesus as not just a particular time/space personality but also as kind of an Archetypal (Light) Being who came in every once in awhile to help correct humanity in relation to a certain ideal or truth.   Different times and places besides Palestine and his life as Yeshua were mentioned including Greece, South America, and China.

Yet, interestingly, Joesph perceived that in all these different times and places, the physical manifestation of this powerful Light being was similar (and sometimes unusual for that place and time) and this was as a man about 6' 2", auburn hair and light skin.

  If you read the account, you will see that Joesph seems to have a really hard time of grasping, understanding, and translating the information related to this Being.  He mentions that at the time and to this day that he is unconscious of what was said to Bob during this session and his only memories are of the feelings of the very jovial, joyful, and humorous nature of this Being. (something the Cayce readings also stressed about Yeshua).

Regarding Joseph McMoneagle in general.  I am somewhat hesitant to speak about the following.  When i was attending the Gateway Voyage program at TMI in Faber VA, i received a couple of very vivid guidance messages about McMoneagle. 

The first didn't really concern him in a personal sense, but was a way for Guidance to create a powerful verification for me because it involved precognitive information in relation to Joesph and an event i experienced. 

The 2nd came after the first one in the above, and came after i had met and  interacted with him a bit. 

The 2nd came unbidden during a particularly deep meditation wherein again we went through the "ask 5 questions of guidance", and i couldn't think of anything specific and just asked to be shown something important or helpful for me to be aware of.

  I then experienced a very vivid, sort of "waking dream" sequence involving observation of McMoneagle. 

  What i saw left me unsettled and not particularly trusting of him. 

This was confirmed to me a bit later when my wife purchased his book "The Ultimate Time Machine" at TMI, and perusing it, particularly the "future" prediction stuff i kept getting the feeling of how off this information was.  I began to wonder if it was deliberate.  I'm still not sure one way or another. 

  The guidance message/vivid waking dream, well this is what i saw: 

  I was observing McMoneagle sitting at an old arcade game, and he was intently playing a violent and bloody game.  His vibe and manner was very, very "cold" and calculating. 

  Apparently there was a slight reflection of my energy body or something in the screen, and McMoneagle started to become aware of a presence observing him.  He started to turn around to look at me. 

  As soon as i became aware that he was becoming aware of me, i had the feeling of, "better leave now before he gets a solid fix on me."   Why i should feel such caution for just observing him and not wanting him to become aware of me specifically, i was confused by at first but later figured was an essential part of the message.

  I interpreted this message and experience to mean that McMoneagle still works for corrupt, quite anti-PUL groups that are involved in violent activities.  Him "playing a game" part i interpreted as he has created a facade or deceives people about this aspect of himself and his life.  Perhaps it also means that deep down he is a callous man who doesn't care what his activities or help to these groups entails and produces.

The very cold and calculating vibe and manner is pretty straightforward.  Lack of attunement to PUL, too much focus on intellect, etc. 

  I'm not sure I'm interpreting this message correctly, which is why I am hesitant to share this publicly.  Yet, even before i tried to interpret the message, as mentioned it left me a bit uneasy and untrusting of him.  That was the deeper intuition part of the whole experience, and a process i've been focusing more and more on as a way to receive information from guidance rather than "seeing" symbols, etc.

  While I'm hesitant to share because i'm not a hundred percent sure what this message means, at the same time i feel that if i am interpreting this message correctly that i have a responsibility to share this information publicly because some look to McMoneagle as a source of wisdom, insight, etc. when it comes to the nonphysical and particularly future predictions.

  Bird, very interestingly and synchronistically, around the same time you posted this query on this board, i was writing a part of the above about McMoneagle to a friend via email.  I didn't mention to the friend the name of this person though.  I wasn't aware of your post at the time.  When i did come here and read your post shortly after, i thought that an odd "coincidence".  I took as perhaps a sign that i should talk openly about it despite my reservations. 

  Also, perhaps related. My rather psychically sensitive wife much later on, got guidance messages that she (well actually "we") were being kept tabs on psychically and otherwise by non friendly human group(s) and an E.T. group.  In one message, she received that someone connected to TMI may be involved.  This is interesting because my wife is more open and has less interpreter overlay when it comes to this kind of stuff than myself because she is not as consciously focused on these kinds of issues as i am.  She tends to be more focused in the mundane, material aspects of everyday life.

I haven't been to TMI and I know next to nothing about Joe McMoneagle.

That said, I can't say I'd want to do remote viewing for the government. Perhaps it can be done in a pure way, but I wouldn't want to tell them where to send the missles, or how they can caputure somebody so they can torture that person.  One would have to be quite callous and uncarring to partake in such activity. If one vibes in such a way, perhaps one might receive information from an unfriendly source. Such  source might mix in some hits in order to make it seem as if the receiver is a trustworthy receiver of information. Or in other words, verifications don't guarantee that somebody receives information from a light oriented source.

Didn't TMI used to have a program where people can make contact with ETs, then somebody from the government  made it so this program is no longer available? Did Joe have anything to do with this?

I just looked at the program and list, and it appears that Exploration 27 might help a person make contact with the gathering. I can't remember where I read about alien contact being limited at TMI. If somebody knows the details of what is possible compared to what used to be possible, please clarify.

Sounds like this sea otter thing was taken out of context... I'll agree to that.....

but...

It does not negate the fact that TMI meditation binaural beats "technology" is simply the imagination come to life so you often get all sorts of strange and ridiculous things like talking creatures or aliens that lived on earth years ago that were more advanced than us and died off etc. etc. etc.

Tell you what, if you can provide a real scientific experiment with TMI which involves a repeatable OBE experience that can be tested time and again and involves viable evidence, (not just an "experience") I will accept that it is a legitimate and non-imaginative event.

Something such as special code words placed in a separate laboratory room in a double blind repeated study where the OBE person tells the word and or numbers will suffice. And the test must be repeated successfully multiple times, under multiple circumstances and different testers and the whole thing must be video taped.

  I remember reading something similar, but the details are fuzzy. 

  TMI now has "Starlines" and "Starlines II" which seem to be geared towards contact with other intelligences, the gathering, etc. 

  I think if i am remembering correctly, there was some earlier program like this, it was taken away for awhile, but now they have the two above programs.

  Re: the J.M. issue, both J.M. and the U.S. government claim that there are no Remote Viewing programs currently in operation for the U.S. military, funded by the Federal Gov., etc.  And haven't been for awhile.

This may or may not be true.  If it is true, this doesn't mean that the private sector doesn't have such kind of programs going on.

  It seems to me the more and more i learn about how things operate in this country, and to a lesser extent in the world at large, that the private corporate, financial, and banking sector and the governmental are increasingly connected and in bed with each other (due to collective greed, materialism, selfishness and a lack of higher ideals).

  Case in point are the issues brought up in the excellent, recent documentary movie "Inside Job". 

I read an article recently and the U.S. military has a special budget where they get billions of dollars they don't have to account for. Therefore, they have a way to fund programs only a few people know about. Perhaps remote viewing and other psychic programs are funded this way.

Hi bird n all,

On March 14 I had a perplexing brief vision that may relate to your interest in our origins. I did read your thread before this and thought "That post topic is certainly coincidental. Too bad that vision I saw came before it because it could have related." Then I remembered --time is relative! The vision and your inquiry could be related!

So, what I 'saw' was a shield, like you sometimes see in heraldry. It was being held up by a marmoset-like creature sitting up that gradually morphed into a bear! The image was detailed like an old engraving but all in blue and white. Wow, bird -- see how that may relate?

I know it's rather late to prove I saw it and that there's a connection, but I know, and thought I'd share.

Bets

wrote on Mar 27^th, 2011 at 2:52pm:

Sounds like this sea otter thing was taken out of context... I'll agree to that..... but... It does not negate the fact that TMI meditation binaural beats "technology" is simply the imagination come to life so you often get all sorts of strange and ridiculous things like talking creatures or aliens that lived on earth years ago that were more advanced than us and died off etc. etc. etc. Tell you what, if you can provide a real scientific experiment with TMI which involves a repeatable OBE experience that can be tested time and again and involves viable evidence, (not just an "experience") I will accept that it is a legitimate and non-imaginative event. Something such as special code words placed in a separate laboratory room in a double blind repeated study where the OBE person tells the word and or numbers will suffice. And the test must be repeated successfully multiple times, under multiple circumstances and different testers and the whole thing must be video taped.

There are so many assumptions packed in here, one hardly knows where to begin. Plus one wonders whether it is worth the effort, since it would seem that the author of this post has already made up his mind (and I assume that it is a “he” since this kind of “challenging” post about belief-systems is almost always part of the male pissing contest ritual) that OBEs and other psychic percepts are nonsense. Which begs the question, What in the world would such an individual be hanging around here for, except to participate in the above-mentioned bear-baiting rituals? Well, taking the chance that others might be genuinely interested, let’s say the following:

The notion that imagination is just fantasy (“mere” or “simply” imagination) is precisely the assumption that Bruce Moen (among others, including most esotericists) has been challenging for some time now, with significant results. Properly understood and used, the imagination is a doorway, or an organ of perception. Which is not to say that it is infallible. But the number and quality of the confirmations he has received and that others have received using his techniques are impressive. These are not laboratory results, but they are empirical—that is, experiential. The assumption of 17th century science (under which most mainstream science still operates today) is that only that which is repeatable under controlled conditions is real. But this approach leaves out only about 99% of our significant life experience, which is made up of singular, non-repeatable events, like falling in love for the first time, losing a parent to death, getting one’s first job, losing one’s virginity, and so forth—not to mention, for some at least, near-death experiences and out-of-body episodes.

The supposition that only nature as observed in a laboratory and mathematically quantifiable is real and intelligible is deeply ingrained in our modern western consciousness, but it is historically and anthropologically untrue. The Indians were great observers of nature, and knew quite a bit about her, even though they didn’t have nice shiny laboratories or wear the white lab coats of our scientific priesthood. Moccasins and animal skins did quite nicely for them, thank you. But their attitude was to harmonize with nature, rather than dominate and control her (Cf. the above comments about the masculine temperament and its urinary habits), which was (and is) the attitude of those that became their conquerors.

I know, that what I'm going to write now - can angry some folks, but...

While long long time ago, it was my dream to go to TMI (I'm from the poorer part of the Europe, so we could only dream about such things), to meet all these people, to experience what to experience there, to participate in their life for a few moments, my Inner Guidance decided otherwise.

I wrote a great book (which astonishes me even after two years!), I began to create consciousness music (different than hemi-sync, rather a complementary/interchangeable, and "top shelf" among other similar productions), record my own exercises, do my own workshops, and so on. My experiences are perhaps not so spectacularly colorful, but I aprecciate their great quality/clarity.

My dream died with people who I did wanted to meet in TMI, and who died (literally). My dream also somewhat died more and more in time - as I gathered knowledge and experience on - how such companies like TMI work from inside (...and how they interact with creative people with invention).

A small candy for solace - I've met a warmly friend, Bruce Moen, person that I share somewhat my path with (and therefore we have so much disagreement in certain things, and we don't talk with each other since some years...), someone that I will not forget, holding his warmth and light in my memory no matter how things go between us. A small candy from the Other Side - I have met met Bob M., in a special way, which I also never forget.

Today, paradoxically I am grateful to my Inner Guidance that I did not travelled to TMI (over 10 years of dreaming). It forced me to go far beyond. To increase my creativity, understanding, experience, quality of my action.

Today - if folks from TMI - would invite me to give some lectures or workshops (and if they pay at least for the travel) or if they would invite me in the field of soundwork (which I doubt) - there are 60-70% of chances that I accept such invitation. There are also 30-40% chances that I refuse with no regret.

What is my conclusion/point?

If you want to go to TMI and experience there - then just do it! Sure, you will find, that the world is not perfect. That is the part of learning here.

But if you don't want to go there (or if you can't) - you can become more without them! And you will meet kind souls around you if you just open to them and... forget that you wait for them.

But don't complain about them, no matter what you want. It will be your waste of time and energy. You can become (aware that you are) wonderful or frustrated, the choice is yours. (-;

wrote on Mar 18^th, 2011 at 2:29pm:

Firstly, the Monroe Institute is a "non profit organization" in which some human beings profit from. I agree with you entirely! The TMI money making machine is just a con into hypnotic programming, using bi-aural sound triggers into the sub-conscious mind, into whatever they what you to believe!...Just like a stage hypnotist, they con you into believing your money is well spent. Bruce's 'imaginative' system is just that, and is so flawed it is laughable! All his, and his devotees so called OBE's are all 100% non-verifiable!...What about the major earthquake and tsunami in Japan! Not he, or one of his devotees picked it, yet he, in his overseas youtube segment tells us he is in contact with ET's!? He, Bruce, praises TMI because W.Buhlman has been invited to join the TMI  money making program! And Bruce is not invited!...Come one people! Get real! It's all about Money!, Sex!, Ego!, Material possessions!, Whatever is the first for you!?        A trip there typically involves thousands of dollars, of which, the typical 20k or less per year hard working American cannot hope to pay for. The entire organization is comical in that it maintains a non profit status when It does not merit such. Further, this statement that humans evolved from sea otters can be assumed a scientific statement which would require some sort of evolutionary evidence. Please note, evolution is a process in which we cannot study as it happens, we can only look at the results of skeletons and biological life forms. However, it is likely that man kind most resembles apes/macaques etc. and evidence of transitional skeletons has in fact been found to support such claims. The sea otter/human transitional skeletons are somewhat lacking to my knowledge.... Sadly, claims like this further assist my scientific assessment that TMI is not trustworthy.

  Hi there Planetaziemia.net,

  Actually i found your post refreshing.  I did attend the Gateway Voyage program in Faber VA, but one thing i became more aware of while there was that i didn't need any of it really. 

  All one really needs is positive intent, an open, questioning mind and heart, awareness of the need to attune and open up to PUL, and a more consistent than not practice of the Silence.  Everything else is more or less a 'prop'.

  Albert aka Recoverer here is a personal friend of mine whom i've met in-physical and he hasn't attended any TMI programs and he is doing just fine in being open to Guidance and having his life improved by that.

  With that said, i do know and believe that TMI provides some very helpful tools and props that can help speed up the process.  It's certainly more accessible for many westerner types than a lot of other paths.

  Btw, i had a precognitive experience documented here and verified in relation to going to TMI. 

  What's interesting is that in the dream i had had previous to knowing i was going to TMI (which i never thought i would be able to do for lack of funds), i was aware that i was somehow "working for" or helping out the Monroe family. 

  I've wondered about that dream message and if i (my interpreter, left brain) just garbled some of it or was there perhaps a deeper message there.  I now suspect that i didn't just go for myself, because by that point i had lost most, if not all my attachment, to wanting to go to a TMI program. 

  Anyways, i think people sometimes become too attached to TMI and the supposed "need" to go there, and become program addicts when really the whole message is ultimately, all that you really need is within.  What's most important is how you live your life in relation to the rest of Creation.

  Also (speaking generally to everyone), don't forget that TMI is still a business, nonprofit or not.  Sometimes money and profit can skew ideals and spiritual attunement.  It's important to be aware that TMI and those working or connected to same don't necessarily have all the answers. 

  Sometimes i wish that TMI would have a much more reasonable price for at least their Gateway Voyage program, or at the very least have a sliding scale based on income.  They claim that their overall intent is to help the positive transformation of the world, but their programs are not affordable to many, many, many people who could benefit by them. 

Well, it's all good, we have Bruce Moen here to counter balance some of that and maybe that is part of his karma of being part of the same Disk that Monroe is part of.  To offer much more affordable (and simplified) teaching and tools.

sea otters, anyone? watch all the way through.... :)

http://stevebass.posterous.com/holding-hands-keep-watching-even-after-they-b

Hi

I would rather belong to the otter/bear people, especially after seeing that video, than to the marmoset-bear tribe.  Thanks, b2 !
"Marmoset' was not an accurate name for the pre-bear image I saw anyway.  The bear morphed from a small-headed, pointy-snouted creature that my faulty memory bank identified erroneously as a marmoset. Actually, it's a mute point because otters are much preferable, having such a wide range of adorable behaviors  ;)

Bets

edit/add:  Darwin's view of evolution was a paradigm. Replacing that part of our 'knowledge' with new interpretations takes more than a sentence or two. I'm enjoying thinking about the ramifications of thesebear/otter/etc ancestors, but since this thread in about McMoneagle, maybe a new discussion is called for.  Anyone interested?   :)

Hi all,
about the TMI / HemiSync thing, thanks to Lakeman and planetaziemia.net for their thoughtful posts. First, I have attended two TMI courses, one in Europe, one in Faber, VA. I don't regret it at all. The other point is, what exactly is it which made it a very good experience to me? I don't know whether it actually were the HemiSync technique. There are many factors in this. When someone complains about the lack of scientific backup of HemiSync, I'd like to point out a difficulty in this, it is to find test persons who don't know, who haven't listened to TMI tapes before, so that the results can't be influenced by anticipations; it is impossible to bullet-proof verify that a test person is unexperienced in this. What could be done is a test in which test persons get tapes which sounds the same, but one fraction gets monaural, the other fraction binaural beats to listen to, and then to look if there are differences in the effects, as TMI claims binaural beats are more effective than monaural beats. (A scientific study about this would be VERY expensive, though) Monaural beats, in a way, are just a modern version of the shamans's drum, and they do have an effect. As we can see, it's not the rhythm alone, as then it would be the same if we attend a shamanic ritual or go to the disco.
   Planeta, I like your approach of making your own lessons/sounds and experiment with it. Maybe a personalized sound pattern, along with autosuggestion is very effective, even more than stuff you can buy. Although, sometimes we have to listen to what the competitors are doing  ;) .

Spooky

spooky2 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2011 at 6:38pm:

Hi all, about the TMI / HemiSync thing, thanks to Lakeman and planetaziemia.net for their thoughtful posts. First, I have attended two TMI courses, one in Europe, one in Faber, VA. I don't regret it at all. The other point is, what exactly is it which made it a very good experience to me? I don't know whether it actually were the HemiSync technique. There are many factors in this. When someone complains about the lack of scientific backup of HemiSync, I'd like to point out a difficulty in this, it is to find test persons who don't know, who haven't listened to TMI tapes before, so that the results can't be influenced by anticipations; it is impossible to bullet-proof verify that a test person is unexperienced in this. What could be done is a test in which test persons get tapes which sounds the same, but one fraction gets monaural, the other fraction binaural beats to listen to, and then to look if there are differences in the effects, as TMI claims binaural beats are more effective than monaural beats. (A scientific study about this would be VERY expensive, though) Monaural beats, in a way, are just a modern version of the shamans's drum, and they do have an effect. As we can see, it's not the rhythm alone, as then it would be the same if we attend a shamanic ritual or go to the disco.    Planeta, I like your approach of making your own lessons/sounds and experiment with it. Maybe a personalized sound pattern, along with autosuggestion is very effective, even more than stuff you can buy. Although, sometimes we have to listen to what the competitors are doing  ;) . Spooky

Spooky,

Thanks for your comments. Duke University psychologist Jim Lane actually did an independent double-blind study testing the efficacy of binaural beats some years ago, and the results were published in a peer reviewed journal (see the link below). The subjects didn’t even know what was being tested on the tapes (some were beta signals for concentration, others were delta/theta for relaxation, and others had no binaural beats), but the study showed some significant and interesting results.

In a discussion of his study published in Ronald Russell’s book “Focusing the Whole Brain,” Jim talks about the major difference between controlled experimental testing of the efficacy of binaural beats (fairly straightforward) versus the testing of the Hemi-Sync process, which includes the whole ambiance of the workshop, the group dynamics, the role of the facilitators, etc. The H-S process involves a lot of “subjective” factors that are much more difficult to measure.

By the way, from my previous post, you might suppose that I am against science or controlled experimentation. I am not. It is useful, albeit in a limited way. What I am against is making a certain version of scientific thinking (mostly a holdover from 17th century materialism) rather than the spirit of the scientific method (open inquiry) the arbiter of what is real, or the sole determinant of the validity of a worldview, much like people in the middle ages looked to the Church and the Bible as the sole custodians or repositories of truth. The white lab coat for some just replaced the priestly vestments as a form of final authority. 



http://www.antiaddsystem.com/files/Physiology_Behavior_-_Binaural_Beats_Affect_Vigilance_Performance_and_Mood.pdf

spooky2 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2011 at 6:38pm:

Planeta, I like your approach of making your own lessons/sounds and experiment with it. Maybe a personalized sound pattern, along with autosuggestion is very effective, even more than stuff you can buy. Although, sometimes we have to listen to what the competitors are doing  ;) . Spooky

But I do listen (-: I really love a lot of Hemi-Sync recordings (-: And many other countless productions. I could work as a professional sound advisor for various applications; I just made a different choice. All of us - we are a part of enormous co-creation, a result of previous actions that made us, what we are, at least on the physical plane.

Thanks guys!

Lakemam, I think you hit it on the head. Their minds are already made up.
Fixed ideas. Unwavering, core beliefs. True only to their own beliefs. These may be the hardest ones to do recoveries on once they pass over. I have met Joe a number of times at TMI  and find him a most interesting man. I can see why Justin could have picked up on some "vibs" that he found distressful. Joes work had taken to places where most of us would never have the guts to go. Just how would you feel tracking down someone who you know was slated for sure death. Take Saddam Hussein's kids as an example. When Joe and his team tracked them down the were immediately removed from the field and a different teem sent in to take care of business. They will killed. Another example is a time some years ago that Joe talks about where he went to the assistance of a family and the police in finding a kidnapped child. He picked up on some discarded clothing of the child's and was detained by the police as a suspect in the case and only after getting help from a higher up in government way he freed. Now, if your job was to find atomic missile and you just happened to be one of the better finders, don't you think that there might be other countries out to stop you from doing just that. Its a dangerous world and if I was someone like Joe, I would put up guards and walls so high around my being that most would find it extremely difficult and unpleasant to enter. Look hard and you just might not like what you see. One of my own examples of this with Joe was at Guildlines I believe or Lifeline, I an not sure. He had returned from the old Soviet Union with a keepsake from a counterpart of his that he went over to see. That counterpart was dying. He gave him a uniform lapel pin. Joe showed it to us. As Joe was telling us the story, I was attempting communication with him. I most often use the number 1 as a precursor to connection. Repeating the request to have the receaver also say the number back . Well Joe did so a few times. After I felt the connection I put out that I wanted to take a picture of the pin so I could use it in print or on the Internet. I put this out there a few times over and at the end of the q&a part of the talk I asked him if I could take a picture of the pin. His answer to me was, "for "one" thing I don't allow pictures of it as it could go out on the Internet and the person who gave it to me could be put in real danger". That affirmed for me, my connection with a reasonably powerful person. As for if these programs are still going on... follow your guidance and you will know the answer. I can also understand why some people feel threatened by him, or think he might be evil. When someone has the ability to look into your mind and read your most inner thoughts, it can be a little freaky. Those people like to put out the possibility of there may be a chance that what people like Joe do, not possible, or falce or unreliable. People who have something to hide shouldn't hang out around Joe. Because around some of us, hiding thoughts just isn't possible. That's sure no saying that Joe is correct on everything he has put out there and the book mentioned is a great example. The dates just don't match up. But then time doesn't add up when your OOB or when your remote viewing, so that doesn't bother me much. One thing he does put out there that I believe is important to take a good look at and that is we don't have to necessarily worry about the big bomb, cold war, end of the world at the present time. But what we do have to worry about is shortages of food causing world wide problems. This is where the problem is really going to come from.
(Hungry people in third worlds getting really pissed that we are eating's our fast foods and driving our big trucks while they are scrounging for bugs and seed to feed their children. If anyone believes there is not going to be a problem, and I am talking BIG problem, very soon, we will be able to go back and look at this post. The reason I say that is because this time is by far closer than many who live here in North America understand. 2012 is only next year and I personally hope everyone is getting prepared for a change that can move us forward spiritually, or back a thousand years. If you thought the price of gas ans oil, along with food was high this year, wait until you see next year. How many of us are going to sit back and fill our faces and drive our big cars while we watch on CNN the rest of the world watching their children die of starvation.) Sorry. 
Joe is a good man. Family man. He has done what he felt he needed to do for his country. Some of it far uglier that what many would, or could really ever do themselves.   

Hawkeye:

Below is a part of what Justin wrote about Joe. I don't get the impression that it was a matter of Justin being afraid to reveal himself to Joe.

Justin had the experience during a TMI program where people asked their guidance 5 questions. If it is assumed that Justin received erroneous answers that had nothing to do with reality, then perhaps it can be assumed that much of what people experience at TMI has nothing to do with reality. Or.....


Justin wrote (I placed key words within brackets):
"Regarding Joseph McMoneagle in general.  I am somewhat hesitant to speak about the following.  When i was attending the Gateway Voyage program at TMI in Faber VA, i received a couple of [very vivid] guidance messages about McMoneagle. 

The first didn't really concern him in a personal sense, but was a way for Guidance to create a powerful verification for me because it involved precognitive information in relation to Joesph and an event i experienced. 

The 2nd came after the first one in the above, and came after i had met and  interacted with him a bit. 

The 2nd came unbidden during a particularly deep meditation wherein again we went through the "ask 5 questions of guidance", and[ i couldn't think of anything specific and just asked to be shown something important or helpful for me to be aware of.

  I then] experienced a very vivid, sort of "waking dream" sequence involving observation of McMoneagle. 

  What i saw left me unsettled and not particularly trusting of him. 

This was confirmed to me a bit later when my wife purchased his book "The Ultimate Time Machine" at TMI, and perusing it, particularly the "future" prediction stuff i kept getting the feeling of how off this information was.  I began to wonder if it was deliberate.  I'm still not sure one way or another. 

  The guidance message/vivid waking dream, well this is what i saw: 

  [I was observing McMoneagle sitting at an old arcade game, and he was intently playing a violent and bloody game.  His vibe and manner was very, very "cold" and calculating.] 

  Apparently there was a slight reflection of my energy body or something in the screen, and McMoneagle started to become aware of a presence observing him.  He started to turn around to look at me. 

  As soon as i became aware that he was becoming aware of me, i had the feeling of, "better leave now before he gets a solid fix on me."   Why i should feel such caution for just observing him and not wanting him to become aware of me specifically, i was confused by at first but later figured was an essential part of the message.

[ I interpreted this message and experience to mean that McMoneagle still works for corrupt, quite anti-PUL groups that are involved in [violent activities.]  Him "playing a game" part i interpreted as he has created a facade or deceives people about this aspect of himself and his life.  Perhaps it also means that deep down he is a callous man who doesn't care what his activities or help to these groups entails and produces.

The very cold and calculating vibe and manner is pretty straightforward.  Lack of attunement to PUL, too much focus on intellect, etc. 

  [I'm not sure I'm interpreting this message correctly, which is why I am hesitant to share this publicly.]  Yet, even before i tried to interpret the message, as mentioned it left me a bit uneasy and untrusting of him.  That was the deeper intuition part of the whole experience, and a process i've been focusing more and more on as a way to receive information from guidance rather than "seeing" symbols, etc.

[While I'm hesitant to share because i'm not a hundred percent sure what this message means, at the same time i feel that if i am interpreting this message correctly that i have a responsibility to share this information publicly because some look to McMoneagle as a source of wisdom, insight, etc. when it comes to the nonphysical and particularly future predictions.]

  I should probably make a few things more clear.  I did not have any particular beliefs or feelings about J.M. before i received this guidance message.  I was aware of him and his work a little, but didn't tend to give him much thought one way or another.  Even after i met him.

   I was previously aware that he was personally involved with Bob Monroe, and i figured if he was close to Monroe he probably was a cool guy (just recently i found out that they had some kind of falling out for awhile which was only reconciled when Monroe was on his deathbed).  I figured that because i've always had a lot respect, overall, for Bob Monroe.  I figured J.M. has some definite abilities in remote viewing. 

  So, to some extent the guidance message i received contradicted what i was aware of till that point.  I was a bit confused by this at first.  But I'm also aware that Bob was very much still human and could and did get deceived by others occasionally.

  It's possible that guidance was just saying to me in a general way that the U.S. gov. still has remote viewing type programs going on.  They could have used J.M. as a symbol because in my mind i associate J.M. with U.S. gov. remote viewing.   

  Interestingly, a little while after i shared the account of my Gateway Voyage program several years ago, i received an odd email from someone i had never talked to previously, and for whatever reason they mentioned that J.M. and S.A. were still very much involved with the U.S. gov. in clandestine ways.  Though this was well after the guidance message i received, i still didn't know what to think about any of this. 

  Anyways, it is what it is. Perhaps someone else has a better interpretation of this message.  Seeing as just a day or two before this message, i experienced a very overt, obvious precog. verification message (which incidentally involved J.M.), i'm inclined to trust the message and where it came from since it was around that point that i started to specifically ask to attune only to the most Source attuned consciousnesses and energies before and during meditation.  This was a departure from, or change to Monroe's Gateway/TMI affirmation. 

"Don't fall in love with them.
Just work with them.
Become yourself for you,
not theirself for them".

It's an aspective "message". We are attracted to others through our aspective energies (sub-personalities so to speak) which like to behave like... children. My impression tells, that your Guidance wanted to show you such contradiction in this particular context.

Everyone on this planet has their own past and unsolved issues. It seems that your guidance just used this pattern to show what to focus on or in what way to work with what your are focused on.

When we get attracted with/to other people, we begin to resonate with them (ability to tune in between personal realities). And then we exchange (patterns of energy, driving data and so on, whatever; nothing "bad" or "good", just context related). When we resonate with others - usually we can't stop such whole exchange at the same time; we get some portion of these radiations while sending ours too.

Nor I recoverer.. I doubt Justin was afraid to reveal himself to Joe. (Not that I believe he could possibly have, even if he wanted to.) Some of us project very distinct pictures that are easy to read. Others not so easy. But if you are trained in intelligence gathering, as in Joes case...along with being a sort of spiritual intuitive, little could be hid, even if there was a desire to do so. Just by attempting to hide something, could bring it to the forefront. That all said, Justin himself is good at picking things up himself. I believe many of his impressions of Joe to to quite accurate. I also have a belief that Joe was also good at blowing peoples minds. Warfare that is. Part of a bigger picture that world governments don't tend to openly talk about. Exercises and sound frequencies developed at TMI may have been found to help keep those adept in using this type of warfare organised and focused. Of course Joe is not the only person at TMI whos abilities in remote viewing and the physical manipulation of matter, are still heavily involved with the organisation. Others who also have certain abilities are still there and continue to train many programs. I believe the possibilities when using remote viewing are to large that the governments would just shut it all down.

Joe M is only a guest speaker at some of TMI programmes - is not an instructor and never has been.

I agree with what Bruce says about TMI - and particularly what he has to say about trainers:

"TMI instructors are extremely careful to avoid having their personally held beliefs influence participants in any way."  In fact they are very very careful not to even give their perspectives on participant's experiences. 

Bob Monroe always said that what TMI offers are the tools to go out an explore on your own and find out your own "knowns/truths".  That is fundamentally what all the programmes are about.  So why would I want to rely on experiments or anyone else's verifications when I can go "out there" and find it myself?  To those who ask for proof - why not go and find it for yourself?

There are weekend workshops run by people trained by TMI that are reasonably priced and extremely effective.  Just check out the website and find a facilitator in your area. 

Irene

What Black Panther wrote might be true, but since Robert Monroe wrote about things such as focus levels and belief system territories, people are liable to be influenced to some degree.

I don't believe this is necessarily a bad thing. All of us have our beliefs regardless of whether we read what somebody such as Robert Monroe had to say.  What's important is whether we allow ourselves to be open to information that is different than what we believe. If we just aren't willing to be open in such a way, we probably won't learn much.

Another important factor is not underestimating our ability to be wrong. My feeling is that we have to learn to doubt ourselves before we can truly find how to trust ourselves.  The more we gain freedom from  false ways of thinking, the more we can open up to a truth-based way of understanding.

I believe it is possible to make contact with higher level spirit beings in a way where you can become certain about their credibility. Such certainty is partly a matter of the feeling you get when you are in contact with them, and partly a matter of what continued communication leads to. It is important to remember that sometimes we find according to our individual needs and others might have differing needs.






black_panther wrote on Apr 21^st, 2011 at 10:39am:

Joe M is only a guest speaker at some of TMI programmes - is not an instructor and never has been. I agree with what Bruce says about TMI - and particularly what he has to say about trainers: "TMI instructors are extremely careful to avoid having their personally held beliefs influence participants in any way."  In fact they are very very careful not to even give their perspectives on participant's experiences.  Bob Monroe always said that what TMI offers are the tools to go out an explore on your own and find out your own "knowns/truths".  That is fundamentally what all the programmes are about.  So why would I want to rely on experiments or anyone else's verifications when I can go "out there" and find it myself?  To those who ask for proof - why not go and find it for yourself? There are weekend workshops run by people trained by TMI that are reasonably priced and extremely effective.  Just check out the website and find a facilitator in your area.  Irene