I have been reading Eckhart Tolle and I have realized that I have been missing an opportunity for growth I think. I have often written about how I imagine that upon death the Actor Self becomes more prevalent and the character (how you view yourself in the world) becomes more of a reference point. What is great about Tolle is that I'm realizing that the Actor is always the conscious observer of what Tolle calls the unconscious ego. His writing is really helping me hone in on what makes me tick.

I still occasionally listen to Going Home Disc 7 by Robert Monroe and within it he expresses how one becomes more than they ever thought possible. I think this realization is possible before death as one becomes aware of the consciousness that observes the ego. Anyway, I thought it was cool and that I'd mention it to see if anyone else had observations about observing the ego which Tolle refers to as unconscious and the conscious observer is present or the presence. I thought it was neat.

Beau:

I suggest that you be careful there about making a split that doesn't exist. When people die they tend to find that the entirety of their mind comes with them. Negative tendencies don't immediately go away. Our awareness can never be separate from our mind despite what some supposed enlightened people claim. They key is to find a way where we can have a mind without being influenced by it in a way that isn't positive. The more we learn to live according to love and find where true fulfillment comes from, the better off we'll be able to live according to freedom.

While we are in this world, I figure it is more a matter of our body having a self-defense instinct rather than our having what some people refer to as an "ego." The same instinct that causes a dog to bark when people walk by its house. While we're incarnated in the world our self-defense instinct competes with our higher self. In a way this is a good thing despite the troubles of this world because it provides our souls with an opportunity to learn about contrasts. For example, how can we truly understand humility if we don't understand about arrogance?

I used to be into anti-ego teachings and I found that they go way overboard. Eckhart Tolle has been really influenced by ACIM. I was involved with ACIM for a while until I finally started to listen to what my spirit guidance had to say about the course. One time my guidance said, "Drop it, it makes the ego bigger." I believe this is so because people end up creating this big ego-belief-system that is out of proportion with how things actually are. The sources who speak of this ego business claim to be enlightened (as Eckhart does), so some people have a hard time questioning what such sources say about the ego, because they believe an enlightened person couldn't be wrong about a subject that relates to spirituality.

Attached is a link where a person who knew Eckart speaks.





http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,73107,page=1

[quote author=1205030F1605120512600 link=1298590974/1#1 date=1298657030] "I was involved with ACIM for a while until I finally started to listen to what my spirit guidance had to say about the course. One time my guidance said, "Drop it, it makes the ego bigger."

I had a strange occurrence while reading ACIM...as I would sit reading it each night I would get three or four pages in and I would nod off.  I never nod off while reading...ever...and this occurred several nights in a row.  In my next meditation I asked guidance what was going on and was told to give the book away as it held nothing I needed. 

Usetawuz:

Thank you for sharing this. I had the exact same nodding off experience when I tried to read ACIM.  Justin from this forum experienced the same. I once found a forum where people were discussing ACIM, and several people said they had the experience of nodding off as they tried to read it. Perhaps their higher self/spirit guidance was trying to help them out.

Everytime I asked my spirit guidance about ACIM I'd receive a message stating that it isn't what it claims to be. When I allow myself to discriminate it, even though it has some nice things to say, I find that overall it is misleading. Yet Eckart Tolle, who claims to be enlightened, isn't able to see this.

If a source wants to mislead people it is going to be crafty when it does so.  Such a source relishes in the fact that people will throw eggs at the people who try expose it.





usetawuz wrote on Feb 25^th, 2011 at 3:05pm:

[quote author=1205030F1605120512600 link=1298590974/1#1 date=1298657030] "I was involved with ACIM for a while until I finally started to listen to what my spirit guidance had to say about the course. One time my guidance said, "Drop it, it makes the ego bigger." I had a strange occurrence while reading ACIM...as I would sit reading it each night I would get three or four pages in and I would nod off.  I never nod off while reading...ever...and this occurred several nights in a row.  In my next meditation I asked guidance what was going on and was told to give the book away as it held nothing I needed.

recoverer,

"The more we learn to live according to love and find where true fulfillment comes from, the better off we'll be able to live according to freedom."

Live according to freedom, that's funny. - How does one handle gurus and shady sources when living according to love and freedom?

The same way a loving person would be with a drug addict. He (or she) wouldn't support an addict's bad habbit. A loving person would do what he could to minimize the amount of bad karma a fake guru accumulates.


Volu wrote on Feb 25^th, 2011 at 3:25pm:

recoverer, "The more we learn to live according to love and find where true fulfillment comes from, the better off we'll be able to live according to freedom." Live according to freedom, that's funny. - How does one handle gurus and shady sources when living according to love and freedom?

"The same way a loving person would be with a drug addict. He (or she) wouldn't support an addict's bad habbit. A loving person would do what he could to minimize the amount of bad karma a fake guru accumulates."

Measure, make a judgement, speak out. Ok. But the drug addict says one acts as a guru and will not comply to our will. Deep inside we of course know that has nothing to do with it, it's purely and unconditonally about helping the other person. But.. the helpee doesn't want our help. How does the pink hearted proceed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6U9rtFkuuY

Volu:

I can't look at the youtube video now because I'm at work.

Otherwise, I guess all we can do is our best while at the same time doing our best to not be forceful, which can be hard when we care.


Volu wrote on Feb 25^th, 2011 at 3:52pm:

"The same way a loving person would be with a drug addict. He (or she) wouldn't support an addict's bad habbit. A loving person would do what he could to minimize the amount of bad karma a fake guru accumulates." Measure, make a judgement, speak out. Ok. But the drug addict says one acts as a guru and will not comply to our will. Deep inside we of course know that has nothing to do with it, it's purely and unconditonally about helping the other person. But.. the helpee doesn't want our help. How does the pink hearted proceed? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6U9rtFkuuY

@ Albert-- I never said there was a split.

I found some good stuff in ACIM, but I had trouble staying awake in parts too.

I have trouble staying awake reading the bible too so I don't put much into that.

I don't have any need to read about people who know Tolle as he as a person has no interest to me. I like the way he writes and his subject matter. I find that the people who don't believe there is an ego usually can't afford to believe in it.  --beau

Beau:

If you read the link I provided you might wonder why a person who writes about overcoming the ego manifests in such an egotistical way.

Regarding nodding out, I believe that Usetawuz, Justin and I are talking about a phenomena quite different than simply falling asleep. It is also significant to note that Usetawuz, Justin and myself all received information about ACIM from our guidance that wasn't favorable.

Regarding the Bible versus ACIM, the Bible has many sources while ACIM has just one. Going by the information I received and what took place with Helen Schuchman (the lady who received the words for ACIM), it seems very possible that ACIM has an insidious source.

Yes and as I've said before, going by that logic what took place with Jesus would lead one to the same conclusion about him.

As far as ego goes if you're telling someone what they should do you have a pretty big one...there's no way around that. We've all got one.

As I've said before, I do not nod out under any circumstance...and if it happens there is a reason which comes from beyond our understanding.  With that said, the ACIM stuff I was reading may have validity to some...I am not one of them.  I have not read Tolle so I have no dog in the fight...allI can say is that I am not into ACIM.

For all intents and purposes, I have never nodded off to the bible...and the difference betweent he two is that I have put the bible aside while ACIM was actually dropped.  Until now I failed to see the significance between putting and dropping.

Speaking of dropping ACIM, that would be fine with me as this ground has been covered before and I am not a huge fan of the material...I just don't see anything wrong with with it, or Seth, or Tolle. Tolle is much more influenced by Buddhism than by ACIM (which he mentions two or three times in the 2 books I've read) So the argument is not really pertinent to the thread.

I think we all know how we feel about certain sources and most of us here know how each and every one of us feels about them so I'm all for dropping any aspect of this discussion that deals with opinions of ACIM. I don't read it I just don't have a a problem with those who do.

I think what I had hoped to discuss here is One's consciousness of being conscious. I have the little voice in my head for better or worse, but I have to keep an eye on it or it can be rather deceiving even when I think its the observer, sometimes that is not the case.

I wonder...if One becomes conscious of itself, little by little, what grand-ness would each of us like 'it' to be conscious of? Would we each be a 'willing witness' to love...like that...LOVE with capital letters...LOVE with invisible letters...what I mean is, if ONE is conscious of itself, what is that like? Do we, as humans, see, hear, know it? There are times, I dare to say, when I know it, when I know that the larger consciousness is aware of and even reacting to and reflecting my small presence, in the ways that I can understand, without fear. And it is my little 'secret'. If I am wrong about this, then I am certainly not sorry about it. It is not, after all, as if I 'deserve' attention in such a way. But, it seems to be there nonetheless. That is all I know about it, all that I can understand, at the present time, as it is.

Well, to me its the ego, for lack of a better word, that we are either conscious of or unconscious of. I don't feel the ego is at all present in the moment but can certainly try convince me otherwise.  I'm very down with trying to stay conscious of mine even when I am aware that my "little guy" is shooting off at the mouth. I can't say I have great control over it, but I am increasing my awareness each day and that's about the best I can hope for.

  Just want to quickly add that Recoverer is correct;  I did have that experience, very similar to Usetawaz's while reading ACIM. 

  It was odd, because it didn't matter how much energy i had before i started reading it, invariably i would get super sleeply when reading at any length.  For me, it was very unusual. 

Then later i had a dream, which seemed to be a pretty clear warning to drop it. 

  Anyways, that's all i wanted to say about this. 

Beau,

"Well, to me its the ego, for lack of a better word, that we are either conscious of or unconscious of. I don't feel the ego is at all present in the moment but can certainly try convince me otherwise."

Is the spirit horny? A rhetorical question I'm guessing you didn't see.. er.. coming. To me that's about the body, and one example of how the body computer "chatter" mingle with spirit "chatter". The spirit is eternal, whilst the body is not, and is sort of an indicator of whom has a lot to lose, and is fearful about it. Anyway, I figure it's about finding a balance with the ego as with many other stuff. And at the end of the day I think it's best for an individual to cater for his/her own path than expect others to do the hard work.

"I'm very down with trying to stay conscious of mine even when I am aware that my "little guy" is shooting off at the mouth. I can't say I have great control over it, but I am increasing my awareness each day and that's about the best I can hope for."

Self control, one of the few useful tools amongst the rubble in the control box.  ;)

Yes, it is a good question and I'm glad its rhetorical because I don't have a solid answer on that.

Beau,

"Yes, it is a good question and I'm glad its rhetorical because I don't have a solid answer on that."

Haven't got it all neither but think it's a good point. That'd be an interesting topic for anyone going to a psychiatrist: the schizophrenic relationship between spirit and body, and which thoughts are body- and which are spirit consciousness. Hehe. Maybe not. Could perhaps prolong the sessions into more coins for the one helping some body back into tolerating the earth system.

Not long ago a couple of dudes got into a quarrel. That is, one very passive and the other smacking his face repeatedly so that the glasses flew off. I asked the smacker to hold the phone, and he told me to back off or he'd kick my ass. Went back and forth testing how angry he was, and I backed off. Then the smacker finished telling the passive one about the dangers of drugs, neglecting to mention his own behaviour and drunkenness. He turned and asked me to feel his muscles, and repeated how he definitely could kick my ass because he had worked out a lot. I told him I liked him better when he exercised his mind as a joke and eventually got into mindier stuff with him. Ego? Many times it seems more like body issues. More than our bodies indeed, but it's part of the experience captain obviously, it's what makes this experience possible.

Yes, I agree. Its all part of the experience.