Hi there,

I had a discussion recently (one that I think is repeated everywhere) about PUL. And the question was whether such a thing existed.

The argument against PUL was that there was always a payback for the person expressing/offering Love, whether they were aware of it or not so can it really be unconditional?

And is unconditional the right word to describe it? Perhaps the language used doesnt express what many subscribe to.

don't know what is meant by "there is always a payback."

although, of course, since we are all ultimately from the same source, we are all connected, so the payback would be self-love. What's wrong with that?

Regarding payback, I was inferring that there may always be a motivation to offer love, hence it is conditional.

I see what you mean, if looked at from a larger perspective as opposed to individual then self-love is apparent which now seems to me to be what PUL is all about.

I'm still trying to crystallize my thoughts on this so any help very much appreciated :)

Hi

The more PUL we send out the more we feel it within our selves. I don't know if that's 'payback' since that word infers getting some thing from some other source. PUL is an energy and maybe energy isn't subject to laws of matter.

It's sort of like PUL allows us to return to the natural condition of our essence.

Bets

I think I know what you're saying sanatogen. And the difficulty with whether or not the word "unconditional" is appropriately used is probably because of the restrictions we have spoken languages . To me- true PUL is the purest form of our Creator. When we are in the presense of that energy, it is infact, a pure and unconditional Light of love like we have NO words in which to accurately and fully describe it. Issues arise when we are in human form and can't quite reach that level of purity so the definition morphs into a abstract or unattainable concept.

Tell me if I am on point with you when I talk now about the "payback" issue. From a healing experience that I had (which I can post details below if your interested. Its a long story but a gooooood one!) In brief, I burned my finger pretty severely one day.  In my "freak out" fear mode, I remembered a little boy that i recently saw who had been burned so severely that he was unrecognizable. As soon as I thought of him I was filled with so much compassion for him that I prayed.

I prayed and stated that I would accept the burn if it would take some of his pain. Well, shocker, my finger healed immediately.

Now to the "payback" part,,,, since then, everytime I find myself in a similar situation I try to do the same thing and send the boy healing. But what happens (FOR ME) is that I now know that I too will be healed and it taints my truest form of compassion that I so genuinely felt the first time.

So now, I can't do it as well. I wish I could unconditional step out of the situation but BEING HUMAN I do shift my thoughts to my own survival needs and it taints the purest form of my ability to heal.

So what do you do about it? Well, after this happened I started working on my own limiting beliefs that may cause me to feel guilty about my own survival and I clear them. Its a process.

Does that make sense to what you were trying to gain clarity on with PUL?

Reach for Peace,
Patti

Hey pattiz,

"So now, I can't do it as well. I wish I could unconditional step out of the situation but BEING HUMAN I do shift my thoughts to my own survival needs and it taints the purest form of my ability to heal."

I'm reminded of monroe meeting a being on his travels that demanded worship of he/she, maybe having learnt a neat new trick from watching the earth system? For earth experiencing me, being unconditional is doing what the being says, with out any conditions so to speak, and it doesn't compute.

My assumption is that as a whole being who has graduated earth such an "offer" would be refused, having played those games on earth one too many times. And that the end of discussion would come about quite easily and naturally.

Volu wrote on Mar 25^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

For earth experiencing me, being unconditional is doing what the being says, with out any conditions so to speak, and it doesn't compute. My assumption is that as a whole being who has graduated earth such an "offer" would be refused, having played those games on earth one too many times. And that the end of discussion would come about quite easily and naturally.

Hi Volu- I'm sorry I don't follow what you wrote here. Maybe we are talking about two different things.

I almost get the feeling that you are coming from a angle where you're explaining other dimensional realm possiblities. When what I was sharing was not. It was a physical reality experince. When I said I wish I could "uncond. step out of the situation" I'm saying that my natural reaction as a human is to kick into survival mode and take care of my pain, even when I don't want to. Its a reaction that dilutes my compassion for others in the heat of the moment I instinctively want to tend to my own pain even if I Know I will be ok and that I would rather just genuienly heal the boy. This innate sense within me was formed by my limiting beleifs that I have accumilated (as a human in physical form) throughout this lifetime.

Now what were you saying?  I would like to understand your train of thought, so please explain again so I can grasp it.  :-/

Thank you. Patti

"Maybe we are talking about two different things."

Hehe, that could be. :)

"[...]Now what were you saying? I would like to understand your train of thought, so please explain again so I can grasp it."

As an imaginary example, the same compassion for the one(s) who had severely burnt the little boy, would that be unconditional?

Yes, indeed it would! Thank you for that.

sanatogen wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2011 at 7:49pm:

Hi there, I had a discussion recently (one that I think is repeated everywhere) about PUL. And the question was whether such a thing existed. The argument against PUL was that there was always a payback for the person expressing/offering Love, whether they were aware of it or not so can it really be unconditional? And is unconditional the right word to describe it? Perhaps the language used doesnt express what many subscribe to.

Hi,

I know this topic was started awhile ago, but it's an interesting question. I didn't read any of the responses received yet because it helps me formulate my thoughts.

I believe that pure, unconditional love does exist and is the correct terminology. Just because someone gives something in return for receiving PUL doesn't mean it's a requirement or expectation. Some people don't appreciate it. Some people won't understand it. Others won't recognize it for what it is. However, none of that matters because the giver is able and willing to give unconditional love with NO expectations. Whatever is given in return is "above and beyond" because nothing is required or expected (nor, should it be).

I think the main barrier to giving and/or receiving pure, unconditional love is our society's need to generalize and stereotype groups of people by artificial "identifiers." We don't hesitate to love those most like ourselves while most of us can rationalize not loving those least like ourselves. It's part of the human psyche and the biggest barrier to global healing. I believe, one day, we will have grown beyond this and come to embrace all our brothers and sisters around the world and in our own backyards.

Thanks for such a great question,
mj

Hello mjd,

I admire your practice and knowledge of PUL.
But I'm thinking our attempts at PUL may have limitations. Yes, we should make others aware it exists, but how do you fit "turn the other cheek" into that?

Maybe PUL will not 100% change anyone who is mired in darkness.  Perhaps it is a beacon, but not necessarily a completely curative force, at least not in the dosages we humans can send it. Perhaps it is just  our own egos that think we can save others through PUL.

What has forced me to think about this is that a sweet and outstanding student leader was murdered nearby in a random robbery. Circumstances of the crime point to her initial attempts to appeal to the murderers' better nature, to remind them of their capacity for PUL.  It didn't work.

Bets

betson wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2012 at 8:12am:

Hello mjd, I admire your practice and knowledge of PUL. But I'm thinking our attempts at PUL may have limitations. Yes, we should make others aware it exists, but how do you fit "turn the other cheek" into that? Maybe PUL will not 100% change anyone who is mired in darkness.  Perhaps it is a beacon, but not necessarily a completely curative force, at least not in the dosages we humans can send it. Perhaps it is just  our own egos that think we can save others through PUL. What has forced me to think about this is that a sweet and outstanding student leader was murdered nearby in a random robbery. Circumstances of the crime point to her initial attempts to appeal to the murderers' better nature, to remind them of their capacity for PUL.  It didn't work. Bets

Hi Bets,

I don't have much time at the moment, but I wanted to tell you how sorry I am for the loss of your friend in such a cruel and selfish act. I promise to come back later and respond, in depth. I just wanted you to know I was thinking about you and your friend and sending healing to you both.

Kind regards,
mj

Hi mjd,

I probably misspoke because I was trying to make a point. Actually I didn't know that young woman. Her story is just talked about alot in this area.
And apparently she did affect her killers because they both claim new attitudes about life in general.

But what I mean to say is that maybe life just keeps throwing bad stuff at us until we are willing to hand over the trials to a grander source of PUL than we can generate. --??

Bets

betson wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2012 at 6:42pm:

Hi mjd, I probably misspoke because I was trying to make a point. Actually I didn't know that young woman. Her story is just talked about alot in this area. And apparently she did affect her killers because they both claim new attitudes about life in general. But what I mean to say is that maybe life just keeps throwing bad stuff at us until we are willing to hand over the trials to a grander source of PUL than we can generate. --?? Bets

Hi Bets,

I have typed out a response to you twice and both times they were gone when I tried to submit. I have no idea what happened, but I will try again later.

Kind regards,
mj

betson wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2012 at 6:42pm:

Hi mjd, I probably misspoke because I was trying to make a point. Actually I didn't know that young woman. Her story is just talked about alot in this area. And apparently she did affect her killers because they both claim new attitudes about life in general. But what I mean to say is that maybe life just keeps throwing bad stuff at us until we are willing to hand over the trials to a grander source of PUL than we can generate. --?? Bets

Hi Bets,

I'm sorry I misunderstood that in your original comment. I can certainly understand why that incident would cause anyone to question the point of PUL. Actually, I can see both sides of that argument clearly.

Personally, I'm not an expert on this issue (or any others ;-)) but I view pure, unconditional love as something we are, and freely give without any expectation for anything. It doesn't necessarily change the course of actions from others (as evidenced by the example you mentioned). Instead, it's more about what we do when faced with life and its difficult situations.

I have had the privilege to be involved with a ministry that worked inside jails and prisons and visited the prisoners with them. Obviously, I can't speak for the people who took this woman's life, but many times people make really, really bad decisions simply because they are afraid. They might have been concerned she would identify them and/or testify against them or otherwise make them "pay" for their actions. (I think this is the reason many crimes escalate in the heat of the moment). I have never robbed anyone so I can't pretend to know exactly what that would feel like, but I have been homeless, jobless and hungry with nowhere to turn and knowing my family would not be there as is often assumed by people who having loving, supportive families. I didn't break any laws or devalue myself (or my fellow man) because I was hurting and scared. I do recognize that not everyone makes those same choices in difficult situations. I'm not suggesting I'm perfect and always do everything right. I am just saying that I knew, without any doubt, that exacerbating my situation by inflicting further pain on myself or someone else was not going to help anyone.

I am not sure I would necessarily believe the men involved in this crime are repentant of their actions. Again, I don't know what motivated them to take someone's life and I can't think of anything, other than someone harming one of my children, that would lead me to the same choice. Unless they have completely changed their viewpoint AND actions toward people and society, then it's all just words. I would like to think they are sincere and have truly come to understand the magnitude of what they've done, but only time will truly tell. It would be wonderful if they have and are positively impacting society with their current choices. In that case, then the murdered woman's actions did transcend all else - despite it not being the best outcome for her physical body.

No doubt, pure, unconditional love is very difficult to live. We are spiritual beings having a human experience and that's not always easy. It's hard to look at everyone as our neighbor and to truly love people for who they are (versus what we want them to be or think they should be). For me, I remind myself that everyone has struggles and insecurities and their anger, frustration, or other negative feelings may not have anything to do with me. It's hard not to take it personally (since we're people) but sometimes, it's not. We make choices about who is "worthy" of our time and attention (we have to discriminate in this way just to not get pulled in all directions) all the time so it seems like it should also apply the same with PUL. But, what if PUL is not an act, but simply a "way of life"? What if we gave it to everyone, without hesitation or discrimination, without expectation for anything and with no knowledge of where it leads? (I think this was the general idea behind the movie "Pay it Forward")? Would it be any less "good" if we don't know what became of it?

I have to run. I just retyped some of my main thoughts that were eaten by my computer although this is not exactly what I typed the first two times. (My computer is truly evil lately. Ha Ha) I look forward to your comments.

Kind regards,
mj

I agree, mjd.

You've described both the specific circumstances of that crime and more importantly, also the goal of PUL- --the goal that PUL become a continual state of mind.

I suppose mind has to enter into it alot, even though the word 'love' keeps reminding us of an emotion, and emotions are so often contrasted with a rational mind. It seems mind has to be involved because a choice is involved, choosing to attempt to live in such a state. No excuses, no arguments, just the choice to take PUL as our preferred state.
Then it's really Unconditional (-:

Hi,

I'd like to modify  my  comments on will being involved in order to know PUL. Maybe better said, we have to decide to accept what is already there, this state of PUL that mjd discusses. The decision is in  we deciding to put away any arguments about what PUL is and just accept that PUL is. And that decision will clear the way for our further connection to such source.
Or are we suspicious of Love?

Bets

Bets,
"The decision is in we deciding to put away any arguments about what PUL is and just accept that PUL is. And that decision will clear the way for our further connection to such source. Or are we suspicious of Love?"

Pure and unconditional love for not just accepting it and arguments/discussions about what pul is, or are there any suspicions about being pure and unconditional about it?

Nope, dear Volu,
not to me.

I'm accepting mjd's comments that PUL is a state of being.
My PULmotor is on and running at a purr level. I chose a PULmotor after experiencing a fearmotor and a suspicionmotor for decades. I don't drive it everywhere because it would be impossible to go everywhere, but on my road it's the best possible choice.
You are going to test that, aren't you  :) Someone told me several decades ago that someone like you would test my faith and you definitely fit the description.  Keep in mind my limitations -- I'm abit deaf, I own very little, and even my brothers have to leave after three days.  ;) :D

:) Bets

Not going to test it, for now at least ;) fun Bets and you know best for you. A bit deaf doesn't matter as the volume can be raised. "Own" enough, and ready to drop it permanently at very short notice. My brothers have to leave after a few minutes unless important if they should come along with the blue moon. :)

Hi Bets,

I apologize for the delay. I'm still trying to figure out how to know when someone replies to a thread.

Every time we make a choice to do anything, we are putting our filters (IE from experiences, teachings, environments, etc.) onto that experience and viewing it through that lens. Before that happens, our true essence, the core of who we all are is pure, unconditional love. It's not something we consciously think about it. We consciously think about it's negation.

Or, think about it like this. Have you ever noticed that it's easier to communicate with people via a forum than it is in real life (not that this isn't real, but it removes all the superficial barriers that keep people divided when they are together physically). All you know is that everyone in this forum is interested in this topic, owns or has access to a computer and understands the English language. The rest is negligible. Yet, we constantly make choices depending on that superficial information when we meet people face-to-face. So, the point is to close your "human eyes" and open your "spirit eyes" so those learned filtering devices are shut off. In that way, PUL is automatic.

Kind regards,
mj