Normally, I wouldn't mention this, but I've had a sudden bout of severe low back pain, likely mechanical in origin. I am usually quite stoic, but this has prevented me from moving.  I am trying to self heal, but would greatly appreciate any positive thoughts sent.

Thanks,

Matthew

I'll send some.

Matthew,
Will do my best for the good of all.
Thank -you for asking.
PUL.

Hi Matthew,

Just found your post and am sending healing energies to you.  Hope you're feeling better soon!

Bets

Sent some luv vibes for your back early evening yesterday, hope you're doing better.

be too

Hello Matthew
Last night and this morning I found myself sending healing energies and working with my non-physical hands around that area of your spine:  (Lumbar Curvature- between L2-L4)
Seem to have an inflammation around there, was the picture I got.
Had to do a search on line to figure exactly where it was..:)

Let me know how it went.
Thank you.
PUL.

Thanks to everyone for sending positive thoughts and energy.  Today I felt several "waves" of improvement.  I have a very strong constitution (haven't been out of work one day in the past ten years), and I went in to work in a lot of pain.

I felt the pain lift in several waves during the day.  It is coming and going, but overall, I am improved. 

I credit the waves that i felt with the individuals here and their intention.  I applied my own healing setting intention several times using a Monroe CD I have as well.

I can't adequately express my thanks to board members.  I am 50% better in one day.  I think this is due to the healing that may occur from the good folk here. 

My thought is that we don't use this forum enough, and that not enough of us ask for help of this kind. 

Thanks again Romain, Bets, B2, and Pauli - and others who may have added their intent.  Our potential for healing is multiplied when we come together.  I am grateful.


Love,

Matthew

Matthew:

Doctors such as Dr. John Sarno have found that many people who have structural problems such as worn discs but they don't have any pain, while on the other hand there are many people who have back and/or neck pain without having a structural problem. A psychological approach helped the patients of the Doctors referred to above become better.

I used to have lower back, upper back and neck pain. It went away after I took care of the psychological issues that caused me to have energetic blocks. As I would meditate I would feel my energy flow get blocked right by where I felt pain, find out what issue caused the block, let go of the issue, the block would clear, and my pain would go away.

I don't see how a disc pressing into the axon of a neuron could cause pain, because neurons are caused to fire only when their dendrites receive an appropriate chemical signal. Getting a neuron to fire by pressing its axon would be similar to trying to turn on a light by pressing the wire that leads to it rather than flipping the switch.

I believe it is fine when people send healing energy, but if a person isn't willing to let go of and/or become aware of the psychological issue that leads to a physical problem, the effect of spiritual healing could be limited.  Forcing an energetic block to go away regardless of what a person wants would be imposing upon that person's free will.

Hi Albert,

I appreciate your thoughts.  However, as a physician, I can tell you with certainty, that there is undeniable evidence that a disc compressing a nerve root can cause severe pain, burning and numbness.  The afferent nerve endings which send the neurochemical signals of pain from the skin and extremities go up the dorsal ganglion of the spinal cord.  Many unfortunate people have had injuries that have been documented on MRI and other tests, with a pattern of pain resultant afterwards.  This has been documented both with trauma, and accidents, where certain nerve roots were injured, and time and again, the chain of cause and effect has been proven.  This has been confirmed on objective electrodiagnostic (EMG) testing as an interruption in the normal pain pathway of afferent nerves.

When a disc slips or pinches a nerve root, the nerve responds by accumulating swelling and inflammatory fluid around itself (initially).  Many modalities in animals and people have confirmed this model of pain.

Admittedly, there are folks with pain, whose anatomy doesn't immediately support their situation.  I know of Sarno's work.  I am not averse to releasing pain by searching for other causes.

However, in this instance, I know the cause of my pain was purely mechanical (it happened after I lifted a very heavy object in my basement crawl space, and was temporally related to the pain).  In such a situation to search for a psychological or metaphysical cause for the pain, would really be going to chase that wild goose.

I have, however, used hemi-sync meditation that I recommend to patients to help my body heal.  You may be giving too little credence to the power of healing thoughts and the ability of shared belief to heal in the physical plane.  The christian bible is rife with evidence of this power, as Jesus tells the blind, and the lepers "your belief has made you whole."  Or the parable of true faith the size of a mustard seed moving a mountain.  If you note, in these examples, Jesus never had the person lie down on a Freudian couch and come up with a Woody Allen line, such as "ok, my back is hurting me becuase I hate my mother...."

I do believe that some people have energetic issues and blocks, but I find that to concentrate on chakras, sometimes takes the person to be healed away from their main task of applying intent with the "feeling" of conviction.  It is, seeing it as done, and believing it, that manipulates the subconscious mind to alter our circumstances.


Matthew

Matthew:

It is true that afferent nerves run through a spinal chord, however, their dendrites aren't located within a spinal chord.  For example, an afferent neuron that serves the purpose of receiving a pain signal at a person's finger tips has its dendrites located at a finger tip, not where the spine is. Therefore, the appropriate chemical signal "wouldn't" be received by a person's spinal chord.

Regarding injured nerve roots, I am not certain of what cases you are speaking of, but if you are speaking of a person who has an amputated limb and experiences phantom pain, the nuclei of the responsible afferent cells would've been severed along with the rest of the neuron, therefore such a cell couldn't continue to live and create pain.

Some people believe that phantom pain is a central problem rather than a local problem. This makes sense when it is factored in that people don't experience phantom pain for every afferent nerve ending that used to exist for the severed limb.

It is also important to remember that neural signals can travel in only one direction partly because sodium/pottasium pumps move in only direction and partly because dendrites are located on only one side of a neuron.

Dr. Sarno conducted studies and people with worn discs and such did improve simply by taking a psychological approach. On the other hand many people have had back surgery, chiropractor treatment and received physical therapy but didn't get rid of their pain.

When it comes to your pain, perhaps you strained a muscle. If this is the case, worn discs have nothing to do with it.

When it comes to energetic blocks and bunched up energy, I have found that such bunched energy can cause muscles to tighten up. If a person tries to move when a muscle is in an unnatural tense state rather than a relaxed state he (or she) might experience an effect that he otherwise wouldn't experience.

When it comes to Jesus healing a blind person, this is a different matter than getting rid of back pain that is caused by an energetic block that is caused by a psychological issue.  It would be a matter of fixing a physical problem that doesn't have a psychological origin.

I have found that the divine spirit beings that help me won't force energy to clear an energetic block if I'm not willing to let go of the responsible psychological issue. Sometimes it is a matter of my not wanting to become conscious of the responsible psychological issue. For example, one of the reasons I had lower back pain was because of my repressed fear of unfriendly spirits. It wasn't until I was willing to become conscious of this fear and deal with it that my energetic block could be dealt with. I find it hard to believe that a being such as Jesus would force a person to become consious of an issue a person doesn't want to become conscious of. Remember the saying "God helps those who help themselves."

I've had dreams and received spirit messages stating that I have the ability to heal spiritually, yet there are people I haven't been able to help. I don't believe it is a matter of my shortcomings, rather, it is a matter of whether or not they want to deal with the responsible psychological issues.

Hi Albert,

While you and I agree on much, we disagree on a few things here, and it is worth presenting both sides (I guess that's what makes forums lively).

With regard to physiology, your explanation of how the afferent nerves conduct pain, does not hold water.  There have been many animal and human studies that have correlated the severing of a nerve root near the dorsal horn of the spinal cord with burning sciatica type pain (called paresthesias) from further down the path.  Remember, the brain takes the firing of synapses up and down the dorsal root, and does its best to interpret the result in consciousness.  To any neurophysiologist, this is not in question (as you seem to suggest that it is).  I can, if you wish put in a whole bibliography of published reports that correlate damage in the spinal nerve roots, with symptoms below these areas.  There is no real surprise to this for that stimulus from the skin/muscle or tendon, must be transmitted up the nerve roots via synapses along the afferent horn to the brain in order to be perceived.  Damage at any level in the dorsal root ganglion or the dorsal horn of the spinal cord, causes a sensation of pain corresponding to a level below the damaged nerve.  Again, without sounding haughty, this physiology is neuroloscience 101, and so well supported that it is not in question.  There are countless trauma victims who have had their spinal nerve roots cut in car crashes, wars, etc. and their resulting pain syndromes are as reproducible as 1+ 1=2.   

Granted, the human condition does transcend the physical, at times.  There are always cases of people who develop other neurosynaptic pathways, and confound their physicians. And I have seen people improve without surgery for slipped discs with nerve root compression.  But there are many other explanations for these occurrences, too tedious to go into (such as the gradual dissolution of the disc material and shrinkage of swelling around the injured nerve root over weeks to months).

Phantom pain makes absolute sense in that the brain tries to put together the input that comes to it.  If I sever a leg below the knee, there is a feedback of afferent nerves to muscles/motor neurons that is disrupted.  The brain and consciousness try to make sense of the lack of stimuli and damaged nerve endings that are left, and then there is a general sensation of pain.  It is a type of confabulation or the conscious mind "filling in the blanks."  Neural stimuli do travel in both directions, by the way, just by a different pathway.  The efferent nerves will travel from motor neurons to muscles, and there is a natural feedback loop between the two. 

The other area of disagreement I have is the need for psychological analysis in order to make spiritual progress.  It may be helpful for some people - I grant you that - to address their pain, and question if there is something in their lives they haven't face.

To me, this is in fact an indulgence for some (not yourself) in ego based thinking, and makes the spiritual process much more complicated than the principal of love and faith really are.

Jesus' healing of a cripple should be no different than any healing you or I could accomplish.  Jesus says as much when he says "your faith has healed you."  Who is to say that most of our problems are psychological in the physical world?  Jesus never needed to address this interaction, for he knew that belief/faith/conviction coupled to the thought of healing, always led to a healing.  I know you are well versed in the New Testament, and I think you will find that none of the healings there required the ill person to confront a psychological problem first.

As often happens in conversations on this board, it all comes from our belief systems - yours and mine differs here.  I believe, that for me, spiritual progress requires a transcending of the psychological issues to get straight to the source of love.  But that is what works for me.  If someone wants to go over their childhood memories, longings, etc. as a way to release fear, so be it.  I see it as a form of going of on a tangent only to get back to the heart of spirituality.  But that's what works for me.

Matthew

Matthew:

I don't know if this will paste correctly (if not I'll provide the link), but here is an image of a compressed nerve. Notice how the dendrites aren't pressed upon. On every occasion when I've seen an image of a compressed nerve, the portion where the sodium/pottasium pumps, myelin sheaths and nodes of ranvier are located are shown. Since these parts of a neuron can't receive a signal, I don't know how pain can be created when nerves are pressed upon in such a way.

If another physical mechanism is responsible for pain generation in a way this is irrelevant to this discussion, because the prevailing theory is that pain is created because neurons are pressed upon in the manner shown in the image I provided. 

http://catalog.nucleusinc.com/imagescooked/5120W.jpg

When I speak of dealing with psychological issues I don't mean going through psychological analysis. That said, I wouldn't underestimate how important it is to deal with our psychological issues. If we don't so while here in the world we well have to do so in the afterlife.

Because Western medicine often minimizes how mind, body and spirit are connected, it tends to be overly intent on finding physiological explanations even when they don't make sense. Does it make sense that a neuron will be caused to create pain when it's dendrites don't receive a chemical signal?

When scientists tortured animals in order to figure out how back pain is created, did they ask the animals how much pain they were feeling on a scale of one to ten?

Albert,

I don't want to belabor the point, but your idea that there is one dendrite in the peripheral tissues, is simply incorrect.  A dendrite connects to its axon, this travels a certain distance, protected in a myelin sheath (sort of like an electrical wire protected by a plastic cord).  At regular intervals, there is a synapse where one axon ends at a terminus and transmits its electrochemical signal to the next node just as the dendrite started.   The picture you show, the nerve root is a group of fibers coming from one part of the body transmitting this electrochemical signal first to the dorsal ganglion in the spinal cord, and then to the brain.  If I squeeze this nerve root and perturb the electrochemical signal in the lower back, the information going to the brain is that something from that point all the way down to the dendrite is injured.  It is up to the brain to put it together, but almost everyone reacts the same way and has pain.  Again, it makes perfect sense, since there is a chain of nodes transmitting the nerve impulse, and the disc crushes the nerve root, altering the electrochemical impulse by mechanical factors (swelling, compression which change neurochemical transmission).  Unfortunately, there have been millions of cases of repeated trauma like this in wars, car accidents, etc. which corroborate this model throughout recorded medical history.

As to the importance of the psychological issues, again, I agree that for some people it will be important.  It depends on your cosmological view of things.  For me, the love principle we speak of on the board makes the individual dissection of various fears less important.  I respect your feelings that for you and others a more in depth insight is needed.  I believe that fear tends to be dispelled more and more when our beliefs transcend the ego; this is not a loss of individuality, but merely a movement toward love of others and God.  The buddhists call this "right thought," or "right action."  When it does become second nature, a person needs to delve less into past life traumas and the psychology behind perceived past fears and injustices.  I can't say I've reached that point yet, but I am striving toward it.

Also, I am a big believer in the human soul interpenetrating the physical body, and the body being a manifestation of the mind.  As such, the whole notion of pain to me is a feeling or state of mind perceived by the brain as it interacts with its surroundings in the physical world.  This mixture of metaphysics ("mind") and biology ("brain" and neurons), is reproducible, up unto a point.  So yes, since literally millions of spinal cords have been severed and almost every time certain lesions are reproduced there is a paralysis or sensation made, we can say it is a "fact" in the physical plane that a compressed nerve root causes a symptom.  Yet the mind that interprets the physical sensations is not of the physical world.   I think you and I agree on this part - and Western science will likely never explain consciousness.

Matthew

I want to thank everyone again who applied in intent in my healing.  My back has improved much quicker (I believe) than it would have otherwise.  There are powerful healers here.

I want to repeat my plea again that other board members post requests here for healing.  To me, there is something special when we come together to apply intent to help each other.  There is no reason to feel sheepish about asking for help.  And by healing each other, we reaffirm the strength of our true nature and our common ties.

Thanks again,

Matthew

Glad to hear that you are feeling much better Matthew.  Btw, i do agree with what you wrote above, but i also would point out from my own experience that often health issues as challenges are some of the best catalysts for inner change and spiritual growth and were chosen on some level for that very reason.

  But i would agree that sometimes physical imbalances are related to purely physical causes and there isn't always a karmic, energetic-psychological, or spiritual reason of why or cause behind it.

    I find when being involved in healing, it is always best to get in touch with the Higher/greater/total self of that person and check if one should try to act as a healing channel for that person in a physical sense or not. 

  Sometimes its not what is spiritually best to try to physically heal someone. 

  I believe this is what Yeshua would do before partaking in healing, and while  he (not so much him, but the Universal Creative force that he acted as a pure channel of) healed a lot of people during his public ministry, there were many that he didn't heal or didn't even try to, because he knew that alleviation of their physical issues wasn't what was best for them spiritually.

Matthew:

I'm well aware of the manner in which dendrites exist. You don't have to have a doctor's degree to understand how they exist.

Back when I had back pain I went to a back doctor who is supposed to be an expert. Because my x-rays and MRIs didn't show a worn disc, I didn't end up becoming one of his many back surgery patients. He didn't have a clue as to how to help me, so he recommended physical therapy,  pain killers and a cortisone shot. Obviously, the later two do nothing to help a person become better.

I went to physical therapy and it didn't help me. Ironically, my physical therapist missed one of my appointments because his back went out.

As I said before, when I took a psychological/spiritual approach I got better. I have a coworker who has had back surgery performed on her two times by the same doctor I saw. The second time she had an artificial disc installed. It's a few years later and her pain never went away. She just happens to be a lady who has had surgery on the same foot six times and it still troubles her. Cut, cut, cut, take a pill, take a pill, take a pill.

If it wasn't for the fact that I allowed myself to think beyond the limited box the above doctor provides, I would still have pain today and this pain was quite disabling. Considering how much money the above doctor makes by doing numerous surgeries and prescribing pain killers and cortisone shots, I doubt that his mind will ever be open enough to consider alternatives that take mind, body and spirit into consideration.  Instead he'll cling to physiological explanations with great fervor, and his patients will suffer accordingly. It's a shame and in some ways it's a crime.

Albert,

I am truly sorry you have seen sides of medicine which appear ineffective and practitioners who were unhelpful.  Anyone in a healing profession can either be well trained or not, and can be in it for the wrong reasons.

Most good medical texts that discuss back pain do not advise surgery for the vast majority of cases.  It is well known, that since disc material dissolves over months, that if the disc initially causes pressure over a nerve, that things may change later on; those who are advised to get surgery may have such profound weakness that they lose strength and stumble or have lancinating pain that does not respond to conservative treatment. 

I treat low back pain; it is something I see every day.  I know there are some surgeons who will operate on almost everyone who walks in their door.   They are not good physicians.  However, their method of thinking is simply that they were trained to remove the disc fragment or bone spur compressing the nerve, and that is all they do (like a horse with blinders on).  The better surgeons, will weigh everything, and try conservative treatment first, and send many patients away rather than operate (I know several of these "good" surgeons in NYC where I practice).

We should be clear that the surgeon you mentioned was not trying to operate based on a scientific evidence-based approach.   Rather, it was based on being overaggressive and motivated by greed or pride.

As to conservative therapy, I know it works, because I have sent people to physical therapy, given them prescription pills and administered local injections; I have seen many healings.  Admittedly, every doctor is like a "chef," and some "cook" differently than others.  But I have helped many sufferers with chronic back pain.

As many who know me on this board know, I am a firm believer in the use of intent and love to heal, in addition to Western medicine.  I am completely supportive of you using other means to heal your own back problem.  I simply see no reason not to combine western medicine (based on real physical data) with the use of conscious healing intent.

M

DocM wrote on Dec 19^th, 2010 at 7:43pm:

As many who know me on this board know, I am a firm believer in the use of intent and love to heal, in addition to Western medicine.  I am completely supportive of you using other means to heal your own back problem.  I simply see no reason not to combine western medicine (based on real physical data) with the use of conscious healing intent. M

Matthew;
This sums up my believe to a T. You nail it; especially with the conscious healing intent. ;)
Great post you two and the others who participate.

Albert re:

Quote:

I believe it is fine when people send healing energy, but if a person isn't willing to let go of and/or become aware of the psychological issue that leads to a physical problem, the effect of spiritual healing could be limited.  Forcing an energetic block to go away regardless of what a person wants would be imposing upon that person's free will.

I don't believe in "Forcing" an energetic block to go away, any healing energies should be send impo in smooth waves of carefully focus intent.The body/soul/mind take what needed where it's needed and let the rest flow back to source.It's never wasted or lost.
Great thread.
PUL

recoverer wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 4:59pm:

while on the other hand there are many people who have back and/or neck pain without having a structural problem. A psychological approach helped the patients of the Doctors referred to above become better. I used to have lower back, upper back and neck pain. It went away after I took care of the psychological issues that caused me to have energetic blocks.

Hello Recoverer, or better say Albert :)

I have come across this thread and read it with great interest!!! Most specifically, when I read your post, I couldn't but reply.

In a nut shell, my wife has had back pain (lower back and most specifically in the middle few inches to the right of the spine) for more than 5 years now (soon after she gave birth to our daughter). She hasn't slept a single night since then, wakes up with pain. Since then, we also sleep in a separate bad as I snore and thus I would ruin her few good hours of sleep (most times with pain killers)

We went to so many different types of doctors, did MRIs, x-Rays, many many other tests, physio therapy...you name it all, spent thousands of dollars and no one manage to find the cause or heal her.

So maybe the mystery has to do with what you said! That the pain is coming from a psychological  cause. I think the last diagnoses she had was myofascial pain syndrome...which leads to no cure anyway.

I know that my wife had a couple of psychological problems in the past (like fear etc) so this could be the cause!

So my question is, how do you go about figuring these psychological issues which are causing the pain and which technique to apply? I mean, how do you go about healing this pain from the psychological issues??!!

Thank you for your time and really appreciate your help! You never know, maybe this will work :)

Cheers
Wonderer

Hello Wonderer:

I just saw your post. Sorry for not seeing it sooner. Sorry to hear about your wife's back problems. So many people get afflicted by such problems. Here's a link to what I wrote about overcoming back pain.   

http://nondualityisdualistic.com/a-night-in-heaven/chapter-9/

P.S. Fear of unfriendly spirits is one of the reasons I had lower back pain. By getting rid of this fear I got rid of pain.

recoverer wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 12:53pm:

Hello Wonderer: I just saw your post. Sorry for not seeing it sooner. Sorry to hear about your wife's back problems. So many people get afflicted by such problems. Here's a link to what I wrote about overcoming back pain.    http://nondualityisdualistic.com/a-night-in-heaven/chapter-9/ P.S. Fear of unfriendly spirits is one of the reasons I had lower back pain. By getting rid of this fear I got rid of pain.

That's OK recoverer, I figured that at some point you might see it!  When the back paid had started, my wife was passing through a very difficult phase, in the sense that she had lots of negative feelings. For example, she had fear of becoming pregnant as she felt she was not good enough to be a mum. She had anger for her dad and other anxiety issues.

When I read your posts, I felt that maybe it's the same issue (as in negative feelings affecting us). Now 6 years on, I think that she got rid of those negative feelings. I had helped her a lot psychologically and I am so proud of her of how she has changed positively. I can say that nowadays she is having quite a positive life.

Unfortunately, the pain is still there even though she has a positive outlook now. but could it be that those negative feelings are still there lurking in her subconscious and thus the back pain?

Thanks for the link! I'm gonna read it right now!

Cheers

hi matthew i will ask god to send you love and healing in my prayers,i wish i lived closer as i would give you healing,my daughter had the same problem,none of the tablets for pain worked but i gave her healing on her back and shes had no pain since.

love and god bless  love juditha xx