By the way forum I dont agree much with of what is written below

By Charles Hodge

How can the existence of evil, physical and moral, be reconciled with the benevolence and holiness of a God infinite in his wisdom and power? This is the question which has exercised the reason and tried the faith of men in all ages of the world.

Such is the distance between God and man, such the feebleness of our powers, and such the limited range of our vision, it might seem reasonable to leave this question to be answered by God himself.

If a child cannot rationally sit in judgment on the conduct of his parents, nor a peasant comprehend the affairs of an empire, we certainly are not competent to call God to account, or to ask of Him the reason of his ways. We might rest satisfied with the assurance that the Judge of all the earth must do right. These considerations, however, have not availed to preven

t speculation on this subject. The existence of evil is constantly brought forward by skeptics as an argument against religion; and it is constantly in the minds of believers as a difficulty and a doubt. While it is our duty to obey the injunction, "Be still and know that I am God," it is no less our duty to protest against those solutions of this great problem which either

Hi Alan,
an interesting one, but the basic problem is that it's predicated (like so much else in supposedly 'philosophical' discussion) on the belief that this is all there is to existence.

If you take Bob Monroe and Bruce's ideas into account, then things look VERY different indeed. You might argue in this case that we're all playing a game that isn't empirically real (we just think that it is) and that evil in its myriad forms is a total illusion when we get back home 'up there'. Mind you, that doesn't help us in everyday life with all its annoyances, but there you are!  :-/
So I would suggest that it's back to that old chestnut: freewill.
We're free to act as good or evil as we can conceive, and take the rap for our actions as a result. It's the ELS which Bob Monroe describes as the educational system par excellence. So evil exists because some of us choose that as part of our experience in growth, whether as a perpetrator or victim of it -and I would suggest that we get both in spades over various lifetimes, UNTIL WE LEARN OTHERWISE.

Mind you, I find the excerpt above claiming that we cannot judge God somewhat arrogant and patronising:
if the above ideas were true (and I don't think for a moment that they are), then I would want to hold this version of God to account and ask him just what the hell did he think he was doing?
Maybe that's why some religions are in crisis now: the awakening means that more people are rejecting the old idea of the judgmental git up there who's paranoid to a fault, demands absolute obeisance, and terrorises and tortures anyone who doesn't toe the 'party' line. Now we're beginning to question the whole con trick that some religions have perpetuated about existence and see that they've got it wrong.
Me -I wouldn't 'be still and know that I am God'. I claim the right to know God and contact him/her and claim the inalienable right to know what's going on. I believe that this desire is what prompted Bob, Bruce and all of us here to explore and not take the excuses that 'we're not worthy', 'we don't have the right', we cannot make and informed decision' etc, etc ad nauseam.
OH YES WE ARE, YES WE DO, AND YES WE CAN.
We have the right to question, to seek information and experience. Any supposed supreme being who cannot grant this is a fake.

Thanks for the posting,
Best wishes,

David.
:)

There is either Evil and Freedom or no Evil and no Freedom :)

Or, as C.S. Lewis wrote, "God can only woo, not take over, for otherwise we would not be his children but his slaves"

Any information we seek leads to growth. There are those who learn by example, those who learn by rote and those who learn by experience. No one learns by blindly following "the rules".

chrwe wrote on Nov 29^th, 2010 at 12:13pm:

There is either Evil and Freedom or no Evil and no Freedom :) Or, as C.S. Lewis wrote, "God can only woo, not take over, for otherwise we would not be his children but his slaves"

That is exactly my take on the subject.

By the way,C.S.Lewis had a remarable mind and more people should read his works
Alan

Although I agree with this statement in one sense, it also occurs to me -- where is the freedom for those who are persecuted, whoever or whatever they might be? What is 'free' about being overpowered by a being or societal 'force' which has more strength? I don't expect this to be answered, and am mostly just talking to myself here. But, if you don't believe in a "God" and accept your role as a "child", how do you reconcile yourself to those who have unfair advantage over others?

Maybe the 'victim' has in some sense willingly signed on for that , presumably valuable, experience for some reason known to his or her higher self but purposely unknown to that person. I don't know any way to test this however; it seems to be a faith thing.

One thing which slightly troubles me with the above; could'nt the 'persecutor' justify his abuse as being important to the victim's soul development ?!  :-/

heisenberg69 wrote on Dec 1^st, 2010 at 3:30pm:

Maybe the 'victim' has in some sense willingly signed on for that , presumably valuable, experience for some reason known to his or her higher self but purposely unknown to that person. I don't know any way to test this however; it seems to be a faith thing. One thing which slightly troubles me with the above; could'nt the 'persecutor' justify his abuse as being important to the victim's soul development ?!  :-/

If that were the case what about Hitler and the infinite need for his soul to be developed?  :o

Personally I think we are all improvising on a theme here. We pick out the experience we are interested in which we believe will lead to some kind of growth (and that could be anything good or bad). It's all about experience and the lessons it teaches. Not about being good or being bad. When you walk off the stage of life you are who you are only perhaps a bit more enlightened from this most recent experience. Ultimately I think we're striving for balance of light and dark. It keeps things interesting. I can think of nothing duller than all light or all dark. That's just me. Is there such a thing as "tough" PUL?

And about Hitler (and here we go again) I think he played that character pretty well and grew from the experience, just as any actor grows from playing a role well. It's just an opinion, but I wouldn't get much pleasure out of playing his part. I really think we should look at our lives more as ultimately fiction in the greatest scheme of things. It's carte blanche to beat people up. It's an exercise in fear management. ;)

I meant to say it's NOT carte blanche..sorry.

Hi Beau.... but if we knew we were actors playing a part would'nt that take the drama i.e  out of our life's performance (and therefore changing our 'performance')?!

A good actor stays in character regardless. I think that's why we don't have that knowledge immediately available to us as we incarnate. We grow as entities as we process information, good or bad, we grow. That's my take.

I don't think Hitler (for example) had the awareness to know that he was playing a part. Maybe that self-awareness only comes when you have grown sufficiently to aquire it. Self-aware people, I would suggest (and hope !) , don't go around killing people !  ;)

It's when you pass on that you realize what you were supposed to get from a life. I imagine that Hitler's Higher Self gained great information from the fears and maliciousness that he experienced. "Housing" consciousness in the physical body makes this ride seem so very real, but once released the spirit is no longer suppressed by the physical brain and the experiences, good or bad, can be evaluated and that information, I think, proves invaluable whether you were a bad guy or a good guy. Growth takes place through ANY experience. At least in my little corner of the world. :D

Is this something we can prove here or do we just have to go on faith until we can understand more fully when we finally leave the physical ? I think the suffering we see/hear all about us is in the earth-life system is a big problem for many people and any light, such as you illuminated above, helps make some sense of it all.

I guess I feel like the sense of it all comes from understanding and the understanding comes from experience. We can be aware that we're acting on a certain level while we're here and still be swept away by the earthly processes.

If you would believe,God has washed his hands from this world.the devil has taken over the world for the time being.but when christ returns,he will rid the devil from this world,and plant in every human mind the pease they seek.this will be in the next few years.We should pray and forgive,than pease  will come.noone gets a free ticket to heaven,we must earn it.G