Hi All: I may be largely be responsible for putting folks on this forum on to Frank Kepple... I just got information that he may be a hoaxster... the brits have a nasty little quirk they love hoaxing the world... this may be one of them... check everything out... I would avoid his stuff tho...

S.

In order for what he says to be a hoax, the information needs to be false.  I have read quite a bit of Kepple's ideas about the greater reality, and for the most part they seem pretty accurate and correlate with what other explorers of consciousness have found, especially Monroe, and including myself.  I think it is irresponsible to tell people to "avoid his stuff" without at least siting some valid reasons as to why he is a "hoaxster."    

I think, Seraphi, you should simply state what came to your attention that might implicate him as a hoaxster. 

As with any potential hoax or fraud, either it is or it isn't real.  OOB Dude states that since the writings seem to make sense from his own explorations and Monroe, then it shouldn't be fraud.  Of course it still either is or isn't.  We have had discussions like this about the Seth material before.  Some say that even if the author is "making things up," that they take meaning from the work.

Most of us however, want to know the "low down," about whether deliberate fraud is show through some sort of evidence of knowledge.

I Am Dude wrote on Nov 18^th, 2010 at 2:06pm:

In order for what he says to be a hoax, the information needs to be false.  I have read quite a bit of Kepple's ideas about the greater reality, and for the most part they seem pretty accurate and correlate with what other explorers of consciousness have found, especially Monroe, and including myself.  I think it is irresponsible to tell people to "avoid his stuff" without at least siting some valid reasons as to why he is a "hoaxster."

Hi Dude: Nice hearing from you again... yeah that's because he very adroitly hewed close to the Monrovian wind and he seems to have used Moen as well to weave his alledged elaborate hoax.

Here is the information I have... he collected money and it doesn't seem to be a lot of money for some project... that's when he conveniently disappeared... the most plausible theory is that he would not be able to sustain the hoax indefinitely when it came to time to really put leather to the road... so he just gave it up and walked away... The English Piltdown hoax could have been uncovered almost immediately with a litte forensic investigation... but no one under took to investigate it thoroughly...


S.

Seraphis, sorry but what you tell doesn't sound very substantial. I've not only read the summary of his researches, which I can partly confirm, but as well a long forum thread posting, and I had not the slightest doubt that what he was telling was nothing but his own experience. Of course, I can be wrong. But rumours aren't really a source of serious information.

Spooky

I heard he was extremely ill like near death. That was several months ago. I think I saw it on the astral pulse site.

spooky2 wrote on Nov 18^th, 2010 at 7:37pm:

Seraphis, sorry but what you tell doesn't sound very substantial. I've not only read the summary of his researches, which I can partly confirm, but as well a long forum thread posting, and I had not the slightest doubt that what he was telling was nothing but his own experience. Of course, I can be wrong. But rumours aren't really a source of serious information. Spooky

Hi spooky: They are not rumors... two people who sent money and never got it back reported this when the subject came up... I am just trying to clean up a mess I created... I did qualify the statement... nothing is absolutely certain... but, I made a mistake I believe... my advice is to error on the side of caution... trying to test his stuff may be a big jolly waste of time..

It is up to each of us to test and verify... I made a mistake I believe... all I can do is admit it...
S.

Seraphis1:

I think it's great that you want to take responsibility for your actions. It would help if you had something more concrete to say, because we don't have enough information to decide one way or the other.

Like Beau, I heard reports that he is gravely ill--to ill to post on Astralpulse or Astral Dynamics any more.  So a surrogate created a blog to summarize his findings.  I have read many of Frank's retrieval claims over the years.  His retrieval reports are far too cartoony.  They either lacked any verifications or the verifications were too weak to be meaningful.  Precisely for that reason, I think Frank was sharing his own astral experiences.  A hoakster would presumably make up unambiguous verifications! 

This is an old topic that has been raised on the astral pulse before. It held no weight then and I still don't think it does.

There's no logic to this theory...let me get this straight...

He spends maybe 8 years posting over 3000 comments on the Astral Pulse and generating a mass following...

...he writes a book which he hopes to publish( and I'm sure based on his posts it would have been very good)

...and yet rather than doing it legitimately through a publisher he takes money from 2 people giving them hollow promises then disappears. Not a very good financial return for all those years of effort and apparent deception.

Doesn't add up for me. Isn't it more likely that he simply died before he got to send these people anything?


n.b. Not too keen on your sweeping generalisation about English people being hoaxsters either. There are 60 million of us over here. I would like to think perhaps a few of us are trustworthy.

floriferous wrote on Nov 19^th, 2010 at 2:17pm:

This is an old topic that has been raised on the astral pulse before. It held no weight then and I still don't think it does. There's no logic to this theory...let me get this straight... He spends maybe 8 years posting over 3000 comments on the Astral Pulse and generating a mass following... ...he writes a book which he hopes to publish( and I'm sure based on his posts it would have been very good) ...and yet rather than doing it legitimately through a publisher he takes money from 2 people giving them hollow promises then disappears. Not a very good financial return for all those years of effort and apparent deception. Doesn't add up for me. Isn't it more likely that he simply died before he got to send these people anything?

That puzzled me as well… I think it was more than two people tho only two seemed to come out of the woodwork but one was quite significant… a moderator of the pulse… but, why not have the fiduciary straighten it all out…?? How hard would that have been… I have only speculation… which I won’t go into…




floriferous wrote on Nov 19^th, 2010 at 2:17pm:

n.b. Not too keen on your sweeping generalisation about English people being hoaxsters either. There are 60 million of us over here. I would like to think perhaps a few of us are trustworthy.

I don’t think I said ALL… I think I said a ‘quirk’ peculiar to a subset… the piltdown hoax, the girls who faked the pictures of the fairies and a host of others...

[/b] A History of British Media Hoaxes

In light of the recent media hoax where "The Daily Mirror" published fake photographs of British soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners, "The Guardian" has written a short blurb on famous British media hoaxes.

Source: media.guardian.co.uk[/b]

I don’t think I said ALL… I think I said a quirk… but there was a good hoax against Hitler with the dead soldier who washed up on the Belgien (??) shore which gave the plan to attack at Calais… that one thing was responsible for the allied victory at Normandy… so hoaxes are not all bad…

S.

Seraphis, you are being very mysterious about all this.  You introduced Frank Kepple to this forum not long ago (perhaps for the first time, though I can't say for sure).  How did you find out about him originally?  What made you think he had something worthwhile to say?

I followed some of the links you provided and printed and read much of the material.  It mostly seemed consistent with Monroe and Moen.  I haven't tried his specific techniques but they looked worth trying.

I haven't spent a lot of time on Astral Pulse, but Kepple seemed to have just disappeared from there a few years ago with a few posts I saw speculating that he had died.  If he actually died, that hardly seems a hoax, even if he left not having fulfilled whatever mysterious promises he made (or at least mysterious from your posts).

Having introduced him and now trashing him with no real explanation of your reasons for either, I think you owe us a more complete explanation of both ends, i.e why you were attracted and why you now think he's a "hoaxster".

Oh, and Seraphis, why does someone being the moderator of the Pulse make him (or her) "quite significant".  Does being such a moderator give one special status?

If it's this Adrian dude you are referring to, I have questions about him.  Once I signed up for the Astral Pulse newsletter, I started getting these emails that seemed very self-aggrandizing and self-promotional to me.  I haven't read all the chapters from his apparently voluminous book that he sent me, so maybe he really does have the answers to all the mysteries of the world.

Pat E. wrote on Nov 20^th, 2010 at 2:11am:

Oh, and Seraphis, why does someone being the moderator of the Pulse make him (or her) "quite significant".  Does being such a moderator give one special status? If it's this Adrian dude you are referring to, I have questions about him.  Once I signed up for the Astral Pulse newsletter, I started getting these emails that seemed very self-aggrandizing and self-promotional to me.  I haven't read all the chapters from his apparently voluminous book that he sent me, so maybe he really does have the answers to all the mysteries of the world.

It was Naykid... I had private communcations with her... she seemed quite a sincere seeker with few pretentions and a lot of enthusiam for the work.. never had contact with Adrian. Anyone who donates time to these things have inside information that generally the rest of us are not privy too...

S.

Pat E. wrote on Nov 20^th, 2010 at 2:05am:

Seraphis, you are being very mysterious about all this.  You introduced Frank Kepple to this forum not long ago (perhaps for the first time, though I can't say for sure).  How did you find out about him originally?  What made you think he had something worthwhile to say?

Hi Pat: I was put on to him on the Monroe site… when I read his stuff it blew me away to say the least… but then the Astral Pulse people began to come out of the wood work when I asked them (he posted there exclusively) what happened to him… I was shocked to hear the story of his disappearance with the money…

S.


Pat E. wrote on Nov 20^th, 2010 at 2:05am:

I followed some of the links you provided and printed and read much of the material.  It mostly seemed consistent with Monroe and Moen.  I haven't tried his specific techniques but they looked worth trying.

That may be the problem it is too good to be true… but remember I am not trashing him per se… I am only warning you about the situation… and that caution with his stuff may be in order… you could waste a lot of time attempting to duplicate or prove something that just MAY be bogus… that is all I am saying… proceed at your own discretion… but I have better things to do with my time and efforts…


S.

Credit where credit is due:

Hi All: I got the idea of ‘Astral Mud’ from Kepple… I assume that coining was original to him… it encompasses a great deal about the properties of the Astral world… the unique malleability that sector of the non-physical… the idea helped in processing much of Micheal Largo’s – God’s Lunatics…

Kepple’s idea about ‘noticing’ was also unique… not in the concept because I ran across the principle with trainers at TMI but the unique thing about the idea is ‘noticing’ encapsulates a lot and I admit I did use it to good advantage… because it enhanced and made ‘useful’ the process… so take this as an admission that I took away substance of a sort from his work… but I find it better to stick to Monroe and Moen’s basics…

S.

My feeling is that Frank got very ill, never recovered and left the Internet.

I remember a while back Frank Kepple writing about Robert Bruce at astralpulse.com. Going by what Frank said, people other than Robert started astralpulse.com, they made their books available at the site, Robert threatened them in various ways and said they better remove the books, they didn't, and Robert left the site and opened another site.

The attached doesn't agree with Frank's interpretation. Which is true?

http://forums.riverofenlightenment.com/index.php?topic=1451.0;wap2

recoverer wrote on Nov 20^th, 2010 at 3:27pm:

I remember a while back Frank Kepple writing about Robert Bruce at astralpulse.com. Going by what Frank said, people other than Robert started astralpulse.com, they made their books available at the site, Robert threatened them in various ways and said they better remove the books, they didn't, and Robert left the site and opened another site. The attached doesn't agree with Frank's interpretation. Which is true?

The Robert Bruce version is true and here is why:

Exerpt

Frank then changed tact and began to say that clairvoyance was an unnecessary skill. He claimed that though he could not separate an astral double he could phase in the Robert Monroe internal method . Only he had no journal or experiences to report . And Frank insisted that Mysticism did not exist . He called my path imaginary . He laughed at angels and God and ghosts saying that they did not exist either .

When I read the Kepple stuff I was puzzled by the above, now, I know why he said all these things… he couldn’t DO them… I wondered why he seemed to be sailing close to the Monroe/Moen wind… he even praised both Monroe and Moen… but he was a clever plagiarizer… I, also, wondered why he changed the Monroe focus designations… now I know, he did it to cover his tracks… he was pulling the usual trick… big companies do to avoid paying royalties to the real inventor… change the size of a bolt… change the cosmetic look of the product… no wonder I was responding to his stuff… it was warmed over Monroe and Moen…

This is really great to get this sorted out… we are indebted to you recoverer… that was a great find…

The illness death thing was … just a variation on ‘the dog ate my homework’

Outstanding!!!!

S.

Frank and I got to be friends at Astral Pulse years ago and he posted here at my invitation...and eventually to my regret as he became sarcastic and rude. Without going into details, I wasn't really surprised at how he left so many people hanging, at the Pulse, waiting for a book that some told me was over $300.00(?).
What I have wanted to know is, is there anyone out there who can do what Kepple claimed he could do?: Focus his attention to any given afterlife location and phase to and interact There with senses identical to his five physical senses. He said he could see, hear, taste, feel and smell just as we do in the physical.

Ginny

Pat: OOPS I MEANT GINNY! ...sorry.

Tom Campbell says he can do it, but he is careful to never give specific details about what he encounters so as not to influence another's experience. Campbell says you can choose to create a body just as one does for dreams or you can exist without one. For him he says it's simply a choice.

But enough about Frank ..lol. Is this Adrian the same guy who puts together the Ultimate Reality newsletter each week and the book? He is kind of pompous so I thought it might be the same guy.

Beau

Ginny wrote on Nov 20^th, 2010 at 8:25pm:

Frank and I got to be friends at Astral Pulse years ago and he posted here at my invitation...and eventually to my regret as he became sarcastic and rude. Without going into details, I wasn't really surprised at how he left so many people hanging, at the Pulse, waiting for a book that some told me was over $300.00(?). What I have wanted to know is, is there anyone out there who can do what Kepple claimed he could do?: Focus his attention to any given afterlife location and phase to and interact There with senses identical to his five physical senses. He said he could see, hear, taste, feel and smell just as we do in the physical. Ginny

Hi Ginny: When and if I do it... I'll let you know...  ::) But isn't it amazing how easy it is in this field to get bambozzled... I think only recoverer is lest gulible than the rest of us... but sooner or later the truth comes out... of course, he didn't do any of those things... but can it be done... who knows... both Monroe and Moen say that the non-physical senses don't function in the same way that physical senses do... so that tells you something. Little red flags were popping up everywhere when I read his stuff... I'm just not accomplished enough to vet a persons experiential claims... but, that is the whole point of what we do... eventually we can check things out.

p.s.: Some people think he is still posting at AP but under a different moniker...!!

S.

  I don't know anything about Frank Kepple, or even the Astro-pulse site (i never had any interest whatsoever in Robert Bruce's work, for whatever reason), so i am just talking very generally here. 

  Having read Monroe's first biography, and some Cayce biographies, i was struck by the amount of insincere and unreliable people that both these guys ran into, and how often both were promised this or that, and were basically used for their abilities, status-connections, etc. 

  Monroe having been in the business world for a long time prior to the "consciousness" world, commented wryly that he had been more used and let down by the consciousness folks than had been by the hardline business folks of New York, etc. 

  Maybe not more per se, but he just didn't expect it with the folks in the consciousness world; he expected them to have more integrity, more sense of responsibility...   So he felt more betrayed and let down when it came to these folks when he got screwed over or let down. 

  There is all kinds of fraud all over the place in connection with the New Age world.  It's not necessarily a more honest, ethical, high minded, arena. 

   I trust Bruce, Recoverer, (& some others) because i've gotten good messages from guidance about them.

  But, sometimes it's an important part of our path to get temporarily bamboozled as part of a deeper learning/awakening experience, or to balance something, so good can come even of that though it's good universal advice to keep ones eyes and intuition wide open when navigating the New age and Consciousness world.

Beau, yes, that's the Adrian I'm referring to.

Ginny wrote on Nov 20^th, 2010 at 8:25pm:

Frank and I got to be friends at Astral Pulse years ago and he posted here at my invitation...and eventually to my regret as he became sarcastic and rude. Without going into details, I wasn't really surprised at how he left so many people hanging, at the Pulse, waiting for a book that some told me was over $300.00(?).

Hmm..

Could it be that Frank's illness was more than physical? Bad sarcasm and rudeness, at least to me, it's a kind of indication that it could be mental illness, which also could explain Frank's withdrawal, as someone might want to avoid others completely.

When people manage to OBE/AP they seem to become more humble over time.



Ginny wrote on Nov 20^th, 2010 at 8:25pm:

What I have wanted to know is, is there anyone out there who can do what Kepple claimed he could do?: Focus his attention to any given afterlife location and phase to and interact There with senses identical to his five physical senses. He said he could see, hear, taste, feel and smell just as we do in the physical.

Uhh... Isn't it possible use all physical senses in all afterlife locations? I've never OBEd or APed, but I've had at least one LD where I could feel my hands, so something similar to tactile physical sense was present (and sight of course). But I don't know anything about those other senses (smell, taste, perhaps hearing). I tried to speak once in an LD, but it all came out as muffled sound.

One thing that makes me a little doubtful of Frank's knowledge, is that he didn't really think of PUL as some kind of love energy. If he had experienced PUL he should have recognized the love part of it, I would expect. (My reference about this PUL objection of Frank is from the AP site, where "Gandalf" has set together a Frank page.)

PauliEffectt wrote on Nov 21^st, 2010 at 9:08am:

One thing that makes me a little doubtful of Frank's knowledge, is that he didn't really think of PUL as some kind of love energy. If he had experienced PUL he should have recognized the love part of it, I would expect. (My reference about this PUL objection of Frank is from the AP site, where "Gandalf" has set together a Frank page.)

Hi Pauli: Exactly, that was a huge red flag!!! You hit it the nail on the head... he could not have experience PUL... no one who experiences it could mistake it... I have not had a major event yet but I have had small explosive tastes of it... and it is not something you can get mixed up with anything when you have the theory well in hand... it was at that point I began to have doubts about the work... and started looking for answers and I found out the truth...

S.

Seraphis1,

The nail on the head is talking about pure & unconditinal love while talking behind someone's back, ill, charlatan or somewhere in between aside. I noticed cracks while going through his material, but found some useful items. As with cake, don't have to eat the whole cake, or even anything at all. It's not like his or any other material is THE way. It's merely his or others ways, inspirational or not as their ways might be. IF (I don't know) he's any degree of a fraud, at the very least he's given addicts of the ideas of unconditional this and that food for thought.

PauliEffectt,

"Could it be that Frank's illness was more than physical? Bad sarcasm and rudeness, at least to me, it's a kind of indication that it could be mental illness, which also could explain Frank's withdrawal, as someone might want to avoid others completely."

Could it be that you're making an a**umption? - Bad sarcasm, but the rudeness of the word is taken away. Could indicate semi-mental illness, and.. could indicate something else, but nevermind. Would you be interested in buying my book? It's just 300 bamboozle dollars. If you pay but don't receive, you'll get to carry the cross of victimhood, for free, with bonus sympathy energy from your friends for making a poor decision.

Volu wrote on Nov 21^st, 2010 at 4:10pm:

Seraphis1, The nail on the head is talking about pure & unconditinal love while talking behind someone's back, ill, charlatan or somewhere in between aside. I noticed cracks while going through his material, but found some useful items. As with cake, don't have to eat the whole cake, or even anything at all. It's not like his or any other material is THE way. It's merely his or others ways, inspirational or not as their ways might be. IF (I don't know) he's any degree of a fraud, at the very least he's given addicts of the ideas of unconditional this and that food for thought.

Hi Volvu:  Did you read recovery’s excellent find:

http://forums.riverofenlightenment.com/index.php?topic=1451.0;wap2

1. I am trying straighten out something I started… I am more gullible than recoverer and am easily taken in by people without a conscience… so I had to try to alert the board about this and let the board decide how they will react… the information is there to evaluate.

I now know most of his stuff is mostly plagiarized material with Kepple twist… the problem is we are not theorist here… we have the power to take ‘theory’ and verify the truth of it eventually… but, if you get a bad concept from someone who proported to have ‘tested it’ … then you have a serious problem which could have you wasting a good deal of time on a fool’s errand…

But, much of his stuff was lifted and not tested as he said so the problem may be mitigated by that fact… case in point… he said he proved that the past, present and future all happen at the same time and that there no linear… time… to prove that you would have to get into a state of mind in which you did just that experienced everything all at once… luckily for us… this is an old Buddhist idea… that I thought we had one of our own verifying…

But, be that as it may I was fooled, I put people on the board onto a hoax and now everyone is advise I was wrong and to be cautious…

S.

Quote:

Could it be that Frank's illness was more than physical? Bad sarcasm and rudeness, at least to me, it's a kind of indication that it could be mental illness

Well I'm not sure about mental illness I think it could simply be a matter of lost in translation i.e. English and American humour being very different. A lot of sarcastic English humour can be misconstrued simply as rude but really the person may just have a very dry sense of humour.

From reading his posts I recognise his humour. It is quintessentially English. Not everyone likes it. Not everyone gets it.

For me what it comes down to is this...Has Frank Kepples work aided my own consciousness development?

The answer is YES so for me nothing else really matters because I never knew him personally. For those people that may have had issues with him it is not my place to comment but I don't think his writing can be questioned. He helped many people over the years and I think it's doing him something of a disservice to question the validity of his writing.

I personally think it's slightly naive to discount his entire body of work simply because second hand evidence has surfaced regarding a hoax. Who can vouch for the credibility of this new information?

Hypothetically speaking, even if he was a rude man who conned people does that mean his work should be shunned? Still holds the same resonance for me.

Seraphis1,

"Did you read recovery’s excellent find:

http://forums.riverofenlightenment.com/index.php?topic=1451.0;wap2"

Quite frankly I find the source of that to be a river of confusion.

'There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on.. shame on you. Fool me.. You can't get fooled again.' - G.W. BuSSh speech in Nashville.

Hi PauliEffectt,

Using the skills Bruce Moen teaches, Focused Attention, involves the use of nonphysical senses. He figured out what Monroe was talking about in his 3rd book--Monroe called it, Phasing.

If Frank is still in this world I hope he is well and happy. I wish that for everyone. Your idea that he didn't believe in love as an energy is what initially got him very angry. It struck a huge nerve. Everyone here understands how or why that can happen, usually more than once in any one lifetime.

I can see why Seraphis1 has felt an obligation to update folks here. The real pioneers in this field, such as Moen, Monroe and others, get a black eye because of those who take advantage. I don't know if Frank Kepple did that...but after awhile it's like, if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck....

At AP, can anyone still bring up Kepple's internet ad he originally posted years ago to sell his courses and book? In all honesty it made me feel kinda sick.

Mucho love ;),

Ginny

Volu wrote on Nov 21^st, 2010 at 6:47pm:

Seraphis1, "Did you read recovery’s excellent find: http://forums.riverofenlightenment.com/index.php?topic=1451.0;wap2" Quite frankly I find the source of that to be a river of confusion. 'There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on.. shame on you. Fool me.. You can't get fooled again.' - G.W. BuSSh speech in Nashville.

Hi Volvu: that link was the complete story, that coupled with the two other stories connected with the situation shined a great light of clarification on the whole thing... Robert Bruce can be contacted you know... I am not sure he will go into a great deal of detail but he could confirm the salient events... if you are interested you might contact him.

S.

Hi Seraphis1,

I think it was in 2007 when I noticed at Amazon.com a new book by Amy Wallace, The Sorcerer's Apprentice, about her 20+ years as one of Carlos Castaneda's witches. Reading the excerpt was stunning for me, like someone had pulled the rug out from underneath me, and yet it confirmed what I had suspected for a long time. It took 6 months before I felt I could even get the book and read it...that's how important his work had been.

Does Wallace's book tell the truth? Well, for me, her story was a valuable lesson in why I should take seriously that inner voice that started sounding the alarm years ago when Castaneda's 4th book came out. But still, it hurt to read it, but I had to.

Thanks for caring about all of us here :).

Much love,

Ginny

Hi All: THIS IS A SPECULATION!!

I keep asking myself why did Frank Kepple disappear so conveniently with the ‘dog ate my homework’ excuse… I just realized… the Monroe Institute could have played a role deep in the background by scaring the bejesus out him… Kepple thoroughly plagiarized Monroe (and Moen and Seth)… I know from the recoverer source that Robert Bruce forgave and forgot and walked away… but, RB has no particular resources… but, the Monroe Institute is handsomely endowed… and has all kinds of deep connections and resources… could it be a major lawsuit would have done serious damage to Kepple’s financial world???

Just a thought.

S.

Ginny wrote on Nov 21^st, 2010 at 10:31pm:

Hi Seraphis1, I think it was in 2007 when I noticed at Amazon.com a new book by Amy Wallace, The Sorcerer's Apprentice, about her 20+ years as one of Carlos Castaneda's witches. Reading the excerpt was stunning for me, like someone had pulled the rug out from underneath me, and yet it confirmed what I had suspected for a long time. It took 6 months before I felt I could even get the book and read it...that's how important his work had been. Does Wallace's book tell the truth? Well, for me, her story was a valuable lesson in why I should take seriously that inner voice that started sounding the alarm years ago when Castaneda's 4th book came out. But still, it hurt to read it, but I had to. Thanks for caring about all of us here :). Much love, Ginny

Hi Ginny: I saw an interesting statistic which says that only 2 percent of the world population at any given moment transcends... only a small percentage of those remain or attempt to teach or even can be coherent enough to teach... so to get the absolute truth requires and unerring instinct for validity... but you can get fooled 'once' that is the fault of the perpetrator... just don't get fooled twice...

I am not familiar with Amy's work... but William Buhlman who spent time with south American shaman says they are effective magicians (they use a lot of hallucinogenic drugs) but, among themselves they are deadly... even 'killing' each other is not unheard... so there is a dark side one wants to avoid...

All you can do is decide if you are on the side of 'light' and follow that course... I choose 'light' and Love... I side with Monroe... their is no darkness it is an illusion... there is only an absence of 'light and love'..

Good luck in you journey to the Truth...


S.

Seraphis1,

"that link was the complete story, that coupled with the two other stories connected with the situation shined a great light of clarification on the whole thing.."

I checked out aunt from the link - the so called soup-group incident and others of her postings on astralpulse. That's what I meant by river of confusion. The topic spurred a mild curiosity, but that's as much time I'm going to spend on this. Frank's work is not a bible for me (the bible itself neither).

"but you can get fooled 'once' that is the fault of the perpetrator... just don't get fooled twice..."

There are so called nigerian money scams going about. And the one's falling for 'em are responsible for making THEIR poor decisions. They are not forced to agree to sending some money to supposedly get a gazillion dollars as far as I know.

"so there is a dark side one wants to avoid...

All you can do is decide if you are on the side of 'light' and follow that course... I choose 'light' and Love... I side with Monroe... their is no darkness it is an illusion... there is only an absence of 'light and love'.."

Monroe has stated darkness is just an illusion?

There's a dark side one wants to avoid, yet there is no darkness. That's one of that side's entrapments. Becoming blinded by light, and meanwhile one's darker side is left unchallenged and thus not dealt with, since it's not really there. For dark shamans like castanedea it's business as usual, cause they're just run-of-the-mill shamans. The shaman has just helped one trip, gets bad but not really since it's an illusion, and the shaman's consequent huge smile just means a good mood dropped by for a visit.

Volu wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2010 at 1:57pm:

Seraphis1, "that link was the complete story, that coupled with the two other stories connected with the situation shined a great light of clarification on the whole thing.." I checked out aunt from the link - the so called soup-group incident and others of her postings on astralpulse. That's what I meant by river of confusion. The topic spurred a mild curiosity, but that's as much time I'm going to spend on this. Frank's work is not a bible for me (the bible itself neither).

I think it was worth the effort to get a fairly clear picture of the FK saga… but, to get a more reliable answer one might try Robert Bruce, himself with a carefully crafted yes or no questionaire… he is accessible enough to reply up to a point, I believe… but, I am satisfied I know the definitive story. And have moved on.


Volu wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2010 at 1:57pm:

"but you can get fooled 'once' that is the fault of the perpetrator... just don't get fooled twice..." There are so called nigerian money scams going about. And the one's falling for 'em are responsible for making THEIR poor decisions. They are not forced to agree to sending some money to supposedly get a gazillion dollars as far as I know.

Pardon me if I suggest this is comparing apples and oranges…  the Nigerian scam is ‘too’ obvious and ridiculous for people with a modicum of common sense… there are mentally incompetent people who might get hooked by that scam (also known as the ‘Spanish prisoner con’… there are people who will buy anything a high powered unscrupulous salesmen coerces them into buying…

The world of spiritual seeking is entirely a different animal. The mentally challenge will always have a problem and provide an income stream for the unscrupulous… but, even the astute and mentally capable have a serious problem parsing ‘spiritual truth’… because of this reality:

What the mind can conceive and believe the mind can achieve

The astral sphere is extremely malleable a mind can create almost any reality out of it… as long as it believes… that is a huge problem… because one cannot easily distinguish reality… read Michael Largo’s ‘God’s Lunatics’ and you will see just how deadly this ability of the mind is… for a spiritual seeker… it is the reason Buddhist teachers tell students not to get tangled in ‘siddhi’s (powers) they are not real…


Volu wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2010 at 1:57pm:

"so there is a dark side one wants to avoid... All you can do is decide if you are on the side of 'light' and follow that course... I choose 'light' and Love... I side with Monroe... their is no darkness it is an illusion... there is only an absence of 'light and love'.." Monroe has stated darkness is just an illusion?

Yes, I can’t point you to chapter and verse because neither Monroe nor moen provided an index in their books…but if Moen is reading this… he can verify that this is the underpinning of the whole of the truth that they have discovered about the universe…




Volu wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2010 at 1:57pm:

There's a dark side one wants to avoid, yet there is no darkness. That's one of that side's entrapments. Becoming blinded by light, and meanwhile one's darker side is left unchallenged and thus not dealt with, since it's not really there. For dark shamans like castanedea it's business as usual, cause they're just run-of-the-mill shamans. The shaman has just helped one trip, gets bad but not really since it's an illusion, and the shaman's consequent huge smile just means a good mood dropped by for a visit.

One does not challenge darkness… it is an illusion and is not real… one merges into the light and becomes one with it manifest and unmanifest all at the same time… the is no darkness, there is no void [the void is the unmanifest (a potential)]

That is the whole of the absolute truth as I know it and my goal is to merge into it.

S.

Seraphis1,

"Pardon me if I suggest this is comparing apples and oranges…  the Nigerian scam is ‘too’ obvious and ridiculous for people with a modicum of common sense…"

It's very obvious, yes, but one's own responsibility in these matters may not be, and can end up dragging a cross around to gather sympathy as a victim instead of doing something about it - do the steps required to get back on the path, and next time make a wiser choice. Can be said that even 'THE spiritual master' (for many) failed to do that, and so much for a modicum of common sense. Spiritual matters sure can be more diffuse, but still both the heart and logic can be used to be really sure that the next step is the 'right one' (for you).

"The world of spiritual seeking is entirely a different animal. The mentally challenge will always have a problem and provide an income stream for the unscrupulous… but, even the astute and mentally capable have a serious problem parsing ‘spiritual truth’… because of this reality: What the mind can conceive and believe the mind can achieve"

That group would also consist of people with good intentions, and also some very clever and devious ones. The so called mentally challenged have climbed up the ladders of positions of power while many in the public have been too busy with both fake and real terrorist threats and what the neighbours and lady gaga is up to. New diversions popping up to keep the mind busy. Those who think they can get away with 'just can't help myself because this or that' are looking at the symptoms of the problem and not the root - which is oneself. But good news, it's also oneself who has the power to fix it once running out of excuses and people to put the blame on. No long walks into the distance needed to find the elusive it's-got-to-be-out-there-somewhere. So, one's own responsibility when reading or not reading spiritual material applies. Discernment. If the discernment turns out to be shabby, step it up, get better, learn and put it into practice.

"The astral sphere is extremely malleable a mind can create almost any reality out of it… as long as it believes… that is a huge problem…  because one cannot easily distinguish reality… read Michael Largo’s ‘God’s Lunatics’ and you will see just how deadly this ability of the mind is… for a spiritual seeker… it is the reason Buddhist teachers tell students not to get tangled in ‘siddhi’s (powers) they are not real…"

If it's true that frank plagarized, he has been more clear cut and more eloquent with plain wording than those who he allegedly has ripped of about this: in the focus levels close to this one, your own subjective stuff is very likely to be played out than objective stuff. If emotions aren't handled well then subjective and objective focus levels can blend into one, while thinking it's purely objective.

A problem? A challenge? Well, technology isn't gonna work it out by pressing a button to get the answer. Other people is going to have their versions. So DIY. So what if there are wrong turns. At least it's not second hand information adding a layer of diffuseness. It takes practice to learn to walk, talk and so with phasing and navigation, learning to move the current focus to other areas of consciousness.

Hey Guy's! If Frank Kepple has passed on? Surely Bruce Moen can contact him with his infallible method of Afterlife Contact.. And then inform us all of his astral disposition? Or is it all ......????????? Sincerely. Carl   

I don't understand why somebody would charge over $300.00 for a book. I figure that if somebody truly had something worthwhile to share, he (or she) would be more giving and not make people pay so much.


Ginny wrote on Nov 20^th, 2010 at 8:25pm:

Frank and I got to be friends at Astral Pulse years ago and he posted here at my invitation...and eventually to my regret as he became sarcastic and rude. Without going into details, I wasn't really surprised at how he left so many people hanging, at the Pulse, waiting for a book that some told me was over $300.00(?). What I have wanted to know is, is there anyone out there who can do what Kepple claimed he could do?: Focus his attention to any given afterlife location and phase to and interact There with senses identical to his five physical senses. He said he could see, hear, taste, feel and smell just as we do in the physical. Ginny

carl wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2010 at 9:44pm:

Hey Guy's! If Frank Kepple has passed on? Surely Bruce Moen can contact him with his infallible method of Afterlife Contact.. And then inform us all of his astral disposition? Or is it all ......????????? Sincerely. Carl

Hi Carl: What are you trying to say???  :P

S.

Maybe when Frank had gone through the couple of thousand that he absconded with he had no more money and no reputation and suddenly no internet. That could be the death of most anyone these days.

Frank mentions health problems in three short AP thread messages in September 2005.

He wrote more than 3000 thread messages up to that time, some quite lengthy, and I get the impression that he didn't get any money until the end, when he published his four long Newsletters.

My feeling is that Frank had overestimated his abilities and been stopped by sudden bad health.

I found his Newsletters here:

http://www.imged.org/72/issue1_21_may_2005.txt
http://www.imged.org/72/issue2_15_june_2005.txt
http://www.imged.org/72/issue3_01_july_2005.txt
http://www.imged.org/72/issue4_16_july_2005.txt

Edit: I found the fourth Newsletter eventually.

Hey Beau,

I checked out your link on Tom Campbell--looks interesting. Does he travel via the traditional OOB way or does he consciously project his awareness?

Gin :)

Hi Ginny,

Tom Campbell is one of the ones who says you're never in your body to begin with so the idea of leaving it is an illusion of the process. He becomes conscious in other reality frames and he says you either have a body or you don't depending on your wishes or your expectations.

They talk about all that stuff on his forums. He's very nice and makes an appearance there a couple times a week usually unless he's exceptionally busy. His Trilogy is definitely worth taking the time to read, but in total its about 820 pages. He makes a lot of sense.

Sorry y'all for jumping out of the Frank discussion.

Beau

Beau wrote on Nov 24^th, 2010 at 9:57am:

Hi Ginny, Tom Campbell is one of the ones who says you're never in your body to begin with so the idea of leaving it is an illusion of the process. He becomes conscious in other reality frames and he says you either have a body or you don't depending on your wishes or your expectations. They talk about all that stuff on his forums. He's very nice and makes an appearance there a couple times a week usually unless he's exceptionally busy. His Trilogy is definitely worth taking the time to read, but in total its about 820 pages. He makes a lot of sense. Sorry y'all for jumping out of the Frank discussion. Beau

Hi Beau: I hear things like this from various sources and I have no way of vetting it just yet... but every time I have had a classic obe... I feel a buzzing and I leave my body and go somewhere... when I have a mindsplit I am in two places at once... in my body or partly in my body or aware of my being in my body and at the same time observing a vivid event sequence...

But I suspect we are dealing with ultimates... ultimately on a very advanced level one is... such and such... but, I want to assure those of us who are still struggling to achieve the baby steps... that THIS IS ONE OF THOSE CONCEPTS WHICH ARE REALLY ADVANCED... don't let yourself be confused... and get thrown off stride... looking for something that will be discovered as you get better and better...

Just a thought...

S.

Beau,

Yup. Holding onto the belief that we need to manifest 'a body' while exploring isn't necessary, but it does get many over a major fear hump in the beginning.

It's interesting about nonphysical senses; the recall I have of all my afterlife explorations, from using my mind's eye--especially in conjunction with all the info I get from feelings, rotes and instantaneous knowings, is so much better than my recall of physical life stuff.

I'll check out Campbell's site some more and thanks my friend.

Much love,

Ginny

Seraphis1 wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2010 at 4:39pm:

carl wrote on Nov 22nd, 2010 at 9:44pm: Hey Guy's! If Frank Kepple has passed on? Surely Bruce Moen can contact him with his infallible method of Afterlife Contact.. And then inform us all of his astral disposition? Or is it all ......????????? Sincerely. Carl    I'm saying that Bruce should be able to contact him if he died physically. Or is this too much to handle for you 'Imagination' method  astral geeks! Sincerely. Carl. Hi Carl: What are you trying to say???  :P S.

carl wrote on Nov 25^th, 2010 at 10:59pm:

Seraphis1 wrote on Nov 23rd, 2010 at 4:39pm: carl wrote on Nov 22nd, 2010 at 9:44pm: Hey Guy's! If Frank Kepple has passed on? Surely Bruce Moen can contact him with his infallible method of Afterlife Contact.. And then inform us all of his astral disposition? Or is it all ......????????? Sincerely. Carl    I'm saying that Bruce should be able to contact him if he died physically. Or is this too much to handle for you 'Imagination' method  astral geeks! Sincerely. Carl. Hi Carl: What are you trying to say???  :P S.

Just a thougt: Are you Carl or are you Frank himself with a new moniker... just a thought.

S.

It`s more likely we are talking to Dr. Who/Jehova again :).

Repetition doesnt make it all better, honey.

chrwe wrote on Nov 26^th, 2010 at 2:45am:

It`s more likely we are talking to Dr. Who/Jehova again :). Repetition doesnt make it all better, honey.

Oh! Wow! OK! Your Astral Grand Poobah is Bruce Moen! I'm Sorry! No Offense! Bruce! But your Clones and Nerds and Geeks will defend you till "Astral Death"!!!! Including those retrieval artists who have little or no positive, physical-spiritual internet,  retrieval experience or verifications , 99.9 :)% negative, including Ginny!!! Your  Prized  'Imagination' Bullshit Pupil who has absolutely lied in writing to further her money making and feminist ego bent!!!.....Sorry to rain on your money making parade, Bruce! . Sincerely. Carl.      

I dont know who you are in real life, but you can trust me, I know a litte of how you feel.

However, I mean it. Dwelling on death doesnt make it go away. Maybe you can get counselling to get help concentrate on life again? Thats what I am getting.

In the meantime, I have come to know that I know nothing. The multiverse is full of mystery and I am but a small part unable to grasp the whole.

I`m sad for you that you feel so much frustration and aggression. Try seeing a professional, it can help. And I do mean this in a friendly way (as all my other posts).

chrwe wrote on Nov 28^th, 2010 at 10:09am:

I dont know who you are in real life, but you can trust me, I know a litte of how you feel. However, Ii mean it. Dwelling on death doesnt make it go away. Maybe you can get counselling to get help concentrate on life again? Thats what I am getting. In the meantime, I have come to know that I know nothing. The multiverse is full of mystery and I am but a small part unable to grasp the whole. I`m sad for you that you feel so much frustration and aggression. Try seeing a professional, it can help. And I do mean this in a friendly way (as all my other posts).

It makes me feel 'warm' in a good way to hear this response. Well said, in my opinion.

To know nothing -- is always a good place to start. To 'open' in new ways, our hearts and minds. Always seems to be the quest.

Carl, chrwe and b2 had much more charitable responses to your vitriolic rant than I did.  Why do you bother reading and posting on this site anyway?  Does attacking and demeaning others in a small-minded mean way give you an ego-boost?  Do you feel an obligation to be the contrary voice that changes people's minds?  If so, you might want to change your tactics; what you've been doing won't work.

But I do agree with chrwe on one thing.  You need professional help.   

Yay Beau!

Google shows your avatar photo from here when "Frank Kepple" is googled. Also several other photos, one even of Kepple, but yours shows the best, Beau!  Bravo  :D

Bets

That is pretty funny. I haven't even commented on this thread very much. I'm tickled.

carl wrote on Nov 27^th, 2010 at 10:35pm:

chrwe wrote on Nov 26th, 2010 at 2:45am: It`s more likely we are talking to Dr. Who/Jehova again :). Repetition doesnt make it all better, honey. Oh! Wow! OK! Your Astral Grand Poobah is Bruce Moen! I'm Sorry! No Offense! Bruce! But your Clones and Nerds and Geeks will defend you till "Astral Death"!!!! Including those retrieval artists who have little or no positive, physical-spiritual internet,  retrieval experience or verifications , 99.9 :)% negative, including Ginny!!! Your  Prized  'Imagination' Bullshit Pupil who has absolutely lied in writing to further her money making and feminist ego bent!!!.....Sorry to rain on your money making parade, Bruce! . Sincerely. Carl.

I've lied to make money and advance a feminist agenda?!?  :-? :o. So how come I didn't know about this??! :-/ I'm as poor as a church mouse so that check better be in the mail before Christmas!!! 8-).  ;D

For those interested in Kepple's writing I've made a documents review. If I may link to another forum the link is http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_book_reviews/frank_kepple_astral_projection_truth_newsletter-t32536.0.html

Thank you for posting this link. I've read through Kepple's newsletters the last days and I still think what he wrote is worth to consider, especially his 4-focus-model. I haven't had the time to go through your comments Pauli, perhaps I will in the next days.

Spooky

The one thing I will say for Frank is that I found his technique motivating even though I never achieved the hoped for results. It got me off my can and was instrumental in my seeking more and more information.