One of the main obstacles to awareness of other planes of existence or communication is our own mental blocks or belief systems which, we are told, hinder our efforts to break through the barriers in the physical world.  Our awareness is constricted inside our physical forms, partly by choice, but then also by training and habit.

If this were the case, one would think that children raised specifically not to build up these psychic walls of resistance would be the ideal people to explore the afterlife and astral planes.  If it is "normal" and not to be feared or thought of as being "impossible," then their belief system would be open to it.

When I was between 6 and 12 years old, I had repeated episodes of sleep paralysis on awakening.  I knew I was conscious, but couldn't move my body, even an inch.  Sometimes I would panic, and think I would never be able to do so (it is a terrible feeling to be locked in).  I also heard unusual sounds around those episodes and at one point, I told my mother.  She mentioned it to the pediatrician who had no explanation. 

Only in retrospect did I realize that these episodes might have happened on return or starting OOBE.   What if I had been nurtured by an adept to take it one step further, at that time?  Would it have been easier, given my age, and lack of training in belief systems?

Is childhood the right age to mentor and teach these things?  Most kids are uncomfortable thinking about death or the afterlife, and want everyone and everything to last forever.........


M

Hi doc.my brother had the same thing happen to him.he is 72,when he woke up one morning,he could not move.he was taken to the hospital,and doctors could not find anything wrong with.like you said,the spirit was not in the body when he awakened.if he had fallen back to sleep,he would have been ok when he awakened again.but he does not beleive in oobes.G

Matthew

I really wanted to raise my kid in an alternative fashion. I think there could be a change if the children collectively learned some of this stuff. But there have to be enough adults to give them strenghth to live it.

(And I don't exactly want it to end up like it did in Arthur C. Clarke's story Childhood's End either).

One thing I couldn't figure out was how to offer him something alternative ( and my own skills aren't really solid enough to do that effectively, other than to encourage him to trust his own conciousness) AND also teach him to fit in with the group. I don't think you can teach children healthy duplicity. And you have to be able to survive the group.

You can see this around you, I am sure, in how people can struggle when their religion does not match the one of others around them. We have come a long way in that department! but have we come far enough yet to teach kids to communicate across the boundary, so to speak, and create a space where they are free to talk about ti?

And kids do tend to talk about everything!

HAving been raised in one of the Christian trditions, I had grown to reject the practices of Christianity. I also do not celebrate Christmas in an extreme fashion. With a small child it is difficult to avoid that holiday! I didn't "do" Santa Claus..my choice! But oh was I an "evil" mom! I think it would have been easier if I could have said I was Jewish or Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu.

So how could you teach a kid these skills and also keep them safe? You are lucky your pediatrician didn't decide you had a psychological problem.

This is a conversation topic that could go in several different directions. I do think that children in this age group have not lost the "magical" yet. I sometimes see books that I think are aimed at telling children it is OK to maintain that. I think folks do think about how to do this. It is just difficult to know how to teach both this and the culture when the culture is based on denying this. And if you want your kid to survive the culture, you have to teach the culture.

On another angle, I think children who die young may communicate more easily with parents left behind here (than adults do).  Elissa Al-Chokhachy, whose book I mentioned in another thread, is working on another book devoted to discussing events that have happened when children have passed over. I don't know when she plans to finish it.

Good points.  For me, it is not about instructing my son (now 7) about a way to incorporate the idea of an afterlife into his social and religious background.  Rather, it is a way of understanding that his consciousness/soul can truly exist and may be connected to everything else. 

Kids learn in school and through society in the West to indulge in their pleasures.  That the brain creates thought.  That if you get away with it, it isn't necessarily wrong.  These are not just bad values, they are no values, and based on the idea that nothing really matters, because our consciousness is really just a byproduct of a biological process.

Kids today don't get the concept of karma, of like attracting like, of our deepest beliefs creating our physical reality and life situations.  If they did, they would be less self centered and more spiritual.  I know there have been discussions on this board of the "indigo children,"  - kids who seem like old souls, incredibly loving, artful, almost christ-like. 

However, although I believe my son is, by his nature the most loving child I've ever seen (I am more than a little biased here I'll admit), I wonder how to instill in him the knowledge and ideals that I've come into, to become more spiritual and grow.

Lucy, I think it doesn't have to conflict with a christian or jewish upbringing.  It is simply that the child understand that he/she is a soul incarnate.  That flesh and earth are secondary but thought is primary.  That God is the foundation of our being, felt through love, and that our purpose could be defined as learning to express this love of others and God.

It then follows that laws like the law of attraction, and the law of karma make perfect sense.  It also follows that a person may focus their thought and use it for gain, good or evil depending on how it is applied.  Of course selfish or evil thought goes out to the universe and comes back at the creator in kind.   

I wish I had these lessons growing up.  It is a coherent way of life, and thinking.  It has nothing to do with specific tradition or customs. 

I have started to teach my son what i know so far, in the simplest ways I can. My hope is, he will keep an open mind, and in the end will have a smooth journey as a result. 

Matthew

DocM,

"I have started to teach my son what i know so far, in the simplest ways I can. My hope is, he will keep an open mind, and in the end will have a smooth journey as a result."

I dislike 'I know what's best for you', but being a parent that's part of the "job" imo. I see like attracts like mentioned, and when kids are old enough to decide on their own, another interesting "lesson" comes into play, allowance.

I'm not a parent and like it that way, but would probably be prone to worry waaaaay too much if times were hard for the kid/adult. Thing is though, none of the people who I REALLY like have had smooth journeys, but they sure did become diamonds in the process.

Hi Volu,

I've often pondered the idea that in order to evolve, one must go through hard times.  In the end, while we can cite examples of this, I think it is not a "requirement" of the earth school. 

what are our deepest beliefs?  How do we treat others?  If, deep down, we feel that money is the root of all evil (it is not), and we expect poverty, are we surprised if we are poor?  If we act selfishly and then find ourselves abused by a life or work situation where another acted the same way to us, should we really be surprised?

I guess, my belief is that when we understand how our own consciousness interacts with others and brings about situations here on earth, it can "smooth out" our journey a bit.  Rough times will still come, yet there is a recovery and rebound once we have given up certain hindering belief systems that weighted us down in karma before.

I know this sounds disjointed, but that is what I meant my hope was for my son.  Ultimately, I believe he will be well in the end, because of his heart; I have seen it, and I know everything else will follow. 


Matthew

Howdy,

"I've often pondered the idea that in order to evolve, one must go through hard times. In the end, while we can cite examples of this, I think it is not a "requirement" of the earth school."

The heavy and hard times as in pain I try my best to ditch/work through ASAP. Expanding the idea going with what Lucy said,

"I didn't "do" Santa Claus..my choice! But oh was I an "evil" mom! I think it would have been easier if I could have said I was Jewish or Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu."

Standing up for what you think may seem like a rocky road, at first, compared to pleasing others by following the herd. The rocky road gets smoother when you get to be comfortable by doing what YOU know in your heart is right, and the dogs barking up the tree don't matter any more. The smoother road of getting a pat on the back for falling in line may become very rocky when one continually make choices that feel wrong.

"If, deep down, we feel that money is the root of all evil (it is not), and we expect poverty, are we surprised if we are poor."

Got enough money to get by in this system and then some, still dislike the debt system of money created by bankers, and still think I get what you're saying.

"I know this sounds disjointed, but that is what I meant my hope was for my son. Ultimately, I believe he will be well in the end, because of his heart; I have seen it, and I know everything else will follow."

I don't know you, but gleaning from your posts, sounds like he'll get a good foundation to be who he is by your parenting.

I have two friends, both elderly, who have been experiencing sleep paralysis upon awakening, both thought they had taken strokes in their sleep and were frightened, not being able to move. I realize now they were probably out of body toward morning. Eventually they were able to get out of bed but it took a while. Their doctors could not tell them what it was. Vee

Matthew,

So many NDEs in effect portray Jesus as reinforcing a very standard fundamentalist theology.  Similarly, so many New Age astral exercises merely confirm standard New Age beliefs with very few progressive advancements in insight.  In my view, none of this qualifies as genuine afterlife exploration.  Apparently, there are elusive waking states that induce fantasies reinforcing our wishful thinking.  These states need to be understood so they can be distinguished from genuine astral exploration such as that undertaken by Swedenborg and even some of Robert Monroe's phasing.

This need elevates the importance of NDEs and OBEs reported by atheists and especially by children.  Belief system contamination is less pronounced among such groups.  For this reason, atheist Howard Storm's NDE is probably my favorite, though I suspect some bias filtered into his memory through his resulting conversion to Christianity.  Books on childhood NDEs (e. g. by Dr. Melvin Morse)  are also very compelling for me.

Many newbies have never read this story.  When I was living in Cambridge, MA, I met a woman at a local bar who was in charge of day care for Harvard's School of Education.  She told me that the toddlers under her charge often spoke of experiences in heaven prior to birth.  One boy (age 3) spoke of flying around out of his body during nap time.  Amazingly, he observed, "The other kids fly around too, but they don't even know it."  When this woman asked him how he explained their ignorance, the boy said, "Well, it's like a little mousie doen't know that it's a mouse."  Just think of it.  This toddler was able to infer that animals lack self-awareness and that his fellow toddlers were not aware of their OBE travels during nap time.  The boy then asked the woman, 'You have a birthday tomorrow, don't you?"  "Yes, but how did you know."  Boy: "I learned your birthday in heaven before I was born--and also the birthdays of my uncles and aunts." 

Now I don't believe in astrology, but I am at a total loss to explain why and how this toddler could acquire such information.   There are other cases in which 5-year-olds independently describe the park-like setting of their NDE in great detail and thereby confirm the "geography of Paradise" in ways that adult OBEs and NDEs never seem to able to replicate.  The inner eye with minimal biased pre-programming seems to be potentially one of our best sources of afterlife knowledge.

Don

Berserk2 wrote on Sep 27^th, 2010 at 5:22pm:

Matthew, So many NDEs in effect portray Jesus as reinforcing a very standard fundamentalist theology.  Similarly, so many New Age astral exercises merely confirm standard New Age beliefs with very few progressive advancements in insight.  In my view, none of this qualifies as genuine afterlife exploration.  Apparently, there are elusive waking states that induce fantasies reinforcing our wishful thinking.  These states need to be understood so they can be distinguished from genuine astral exploration such as that undertaken by Swedenborg and even some of Robert Monroe's phasing. This need elevates the importance of NDEs and OBEs reported by atheists and especially by children.  Belief system contamination is less pronounced among such groups.  For this reason, atheist Howard Storm's NDE is probably my favorite, though I suspect some bias filtered into his memory through his resulting conversion to Christianity.  Books on childhood NDEs (e. g. by Dr. Melvin Morse)  are also very compelling for me. Many newbies have never read this story.  When I was living in Cambridge, MA, I met a woman at a local bar who was in charge of day care for Harvard's School of Education.  She told me that the toddlers under her charge often spoke of experiences in heaven prior to birth.  One boy (age 3) spoke of flying around out of his body during nap time.  Amazingly, he observed, "The other kids fly around too, but they don't even know it."  When this woman asked him how he explained their ignorance, the boy said, "Well, it's like a little mousie doen't know that it's a mouse."  Just think of it.  This toddler was able to infer that animals lack self-awareness and that his fellow toddlers were not aware of their OBE travels during nap time.  The boy then asked the woman, 'You have a birthday tomorrow, don't you?"  "Yes, but how did you know."  Boy: "I learned your birthday in heaven before I was born--and also the birthdays of my uncles and aunts."  Now I don't believe in astrology, but I am at a total loss to explain why and how this toddler could acquire such information.   There are other cases in which 5-year-olds independently describe the park-like setting of their NDE in great detail and thereby confirm the "geography of Paradise" in ways that adult OBEs and NDEs never seem to able to replicate.  The inner eye with minimal biased pre-programming seems to be potentially one of our best sources of afterlife knowledge. Don

Don!!! You are perhaps the most clever exponent  of written emotional subterfuge in the Christian Tradition, Hegemony and Hierarchy, on this site! Well done! .......Harvey   

Harvey,

There is no emotional subterfuge or deceit in Don's post.  He has written of this anecdote before, and it seems quite sincere to me. 

You, on the other hand come across as what the young people nowadays call a  "hater," and, unfortunately, you change the topic of my thread from musings about children and the afterlife to musings of a biased anti-christian (I was going to say something more colorful, but refrained for the sake of decorum).  If you want to continue in this vein, perhaps you could start your own "rants and raves" section of the forum(with Bruce's permission). 

Don,

Sometimes it seems so hard to empty our cups, it just struck me that children are at the perfect stage of development to tear down their hindering belief systems before they are built up.  Then again, it has been my distinct feeling that we are all born with a set of soul-tendencies (for lack of a better word), which may either enable or hinder afterlife contact in childhood.  This would be different than a karmic debt from a past life, rather it is the soul-potential, that we bring into the world, which manifests, even at a young age a level of spiritual development.  Hence the notion that some 3 to 6 year olds are "mature for their age," while others are wild and act in an unloving way.

M

My daughter (6) tells me that after death, it is like before birth and we become "angels in heaven" again. We can fly through the universe and visit other planets and can "see" fairy tales. (mind you, asked how we fly around in apace she says "in spaceships). Also, she says it is easier for children who become "little angels" than for adults who become "big angels" and dont understand. Also, she says we are then to become little babies again and choose another family to live with. In all honesty, though, I cannot say how much philosophical talk she picked up from us since we are kind of a philosophical household. I think not, but its hard to tell.

I`m sure she didnt learn this neither in her bible classes in church nor in her atheist child-care.

She has a very "flighty" head and is full of fantasy stories. So I cannot say if any of this is a "true story" or if she just thought of it by herself. However, it does seem quite similar to what some of the people say here, in a childlike fashion.

She also tells me she flies around at night with a friendly ghost who takes her places. However, this is getting less and less...she is getting older after all.

My son (4) on the other hand, is much more down to earth and says that "why, after death we are bones". Asked if there is a heaven, he says "yes, it is all beautiful colors".

Beginning, end and the Lepus hare
Will define you as well as false hair
A single thread of the whole

First breath, and a scream for the road
Now you'll carry a part of the load
So much to learn to forget

Do this but don't do that
Bow, take off your hat
And last but least look out

New copies of old copies rejoice
At the thought of a choice
Heart and soul, the fire within

But somewhere along the way
Got stuck in all the games to play
But they say you're doing well

You recognize the sound
The wheels keep spinnin' 'round
Fears and doubts dress up as you

Last breath and a sigh to go
Now they'll lay the body low
Not there anymore nor really ever here

Shake off, take on, repeat
Linear end and start, complete
In the pond a ripple forms

Knowledge and a mere kazoo
The final review with all of you
Thanks a lot, now, what will you do?

DocM,
Thanks for a fascinating thread, and one near and dear to my heart.  I have two kids, 10 and 11, and I am wondering (agonizing over, actually) how to give them as much of my experience as possible, without alienating them. My son, in particular, is in tune with the concept of soul survival, and is an "old soul" if ever there was one.  I find myself questioning both of them each morning about their dreams, and take them very seriously. They have both had dreams where they were visited or accompanied by many generations of our family. My son reported a dream where he woke up in bed (lucid dream?) and saw all of our family surrounding him, comforting and supporting him.  Recently, my daughter reported a similar but less specific dream (she was not privy to my son's previous dream). When they tell me of these events, I try to support the truth of the "dream" and tie it to the concepts of universal soul and love as the guiding principal in our earthly lives.  But I struggle with how to discuss it outside the context of their experiences.  My daughter is already at the "I don't want to talk about it" stage, if something makes her uncomfortable. More dogma they don't need.

Volu,

Vivid!  I see those images of a human life unfolding through childhood and beyond. Then to me it is like a rondo, a cycle that endlessly repeats. (Rondo may not be the right word.)
If I were a calligrapher, i would letter it in a giant circle, or perhaps in the 'sideways 8' that stands for infinity. (Again, can't think of the word for that form.)

Anyway, thank you!

Bets

  Not being a parent, i can't speak too much on this issue (though i kind of feel like one lately, having recently taken in my younger brother who is emotionally stunted/immature). 

  But, it wasn't that long ago since i was a child myself and i still remember a good bit.   

  My Mom was a fairly psychically sensitive and spiritually aware/ethical person.   I was lucky because she didn't push her beliefs on me having disliked her parents doing that to her through her childhood, and she was the "black sheep" of her family having talked about seeing UFO's, "ghosts", etc. 

    I did occasionally over hear her talking about some weird stuff like seeing a spirit or something when she had some friends over, and things of that nature.  For awhile, i thought she was pretty odd in that respect for i was pretty "left brain" dominant during a chunk of my mid childhood years (6 or 7 to 13).   I wanted to be a geneticist for awhile and was more interested in science until i reached puberty. 

  But i think that open ended environment when it came to beliefs, and yet a dash here and there of some exposure to non religiously dogmatic hints and ideas re: the nonphysical and spiritual allowed me to be more open to nonphysical reality and perception once i, on my own, became re-interested in it again.

  One thing my Mom did always stress was kindness, compassion and love in relation to others and self, and she was a fairly good example of that much of the time.

  Then, when my step father came into the picture, i got to see/experience quite an extremely different, almost completely opposite example, and eventually i had to consciously choose between the two patterns. 

  I'm so very grateful for the childhood that i had had, both for the sometimes very challenging aspects, and of course for the presence and example of my Mom. 

  One thing my step Father didn't do at least, was talk much about spiritual or religious like beliefs either in the pro or con sense (neither was much interest to him) and so in that sense my upbringing remained mostly open ended and minded.

  I think "educating" ones children about spiritual or nonphysical type beliefs doesn't tend to work too much unless its in a more group and separated from the masses setting--like an intentional community wherein the kids are homeschooled.   

  Probably the best bet in most cases, is to be pretty laid back about specific beliefs and concepts, and mostly teaching real spirituality (love in action) by example and stressing that more.  Maybe just subtly dropping hints here and there about some non mainstream specific beliefs.

  But, once your child really expresses deeper interest in those kinds of subjects and issues, then talk more openly.   Anyways, at least this is what happened and "worked" in my case.  I came to a pretty strong curiosity and interest in the nonphysical and spiritual when i started to go through puberty, and eventually my Mom started to talk more openly of her experiences and beliefs along those lines.

when i was about 4 years old i woke up completely paralysed all over my mother rang the doctor & i was sent straight to hospital still paralysed, i then stayed paralyzed down one side, i was in hospital for about a week while they did all sorts of tests but they never could explain it.  :D