I went to a funeral for a friend from college, who died in his 40s last week.  It was a Catholic ceremony, done well with a genuinely compassionate priest, who did his best (without knowing Bill).

I was impressed with how many times my friend was referenced to be "at rest now," and at peace, as if the afterlife was a long slumber.  References were given in the sermon about life everlasting, and that "those who have faith will not die," while at the same time other references made it actually seem as if he would slumber 6 feet underground until he was resurrected at a future time.

Some, including another college friend lingered by the casket at the cemetery.  They equated the "soul" of their friend to be there, in the casket, about to be "laid to rest."  One person couldn't break away from it.  I was emotional myself but kept trying to gently talk to those around and tell them that Bill was no longer there.  That the physical body was like a discarded piece of clothing - no longer filled with the animation of the person.

I suppose I was surprised to see how many people either didn't believe in an afterlife (or the persistence of consciousness),  or who thought of death as a long sleep.  I was surprised that for the hope the priest imbued his sermon with about salvation, that he too implied that the person was to rest now.

We are evolutionary creatures.  And it strikes me that other than Bruce's "soul statues," which he and others have described, an afterlife is by no means a time of slumber.


Matthew

I have had alot of discussions along the same lines...I think for some it is easier to not think about it and to be glad that you are not the one "resting".  While the common statement used as a paliative in the three funerals I've been to in the last three months (all protestant) has been "he/she is in a better place", that was as close as it got to the idea of an afterlife...and like yours, these were primarily speaking of eternal rest.   Some have gone so far as to ask me not to "go into it" because most of my friends know of my belief in our eternal soul.  Surprisingly, these are primarily "christians" who have not thought beyond what they have heard during ceremonies and Sunday's sermon, much less developed a sense of the Christ's comments about life everlasting.

I suppose this is proof that we come to desire answers when we are ready to do so...we (on this board) seek those answers while many surrounding us simply deal with what is in front of them.  No judgment, simply different...we all seek and find our answers sooner or later...

Good observations Matthew.

Have been in the mode for a while of there being lots to learn by observing, pose questions and observe the answers, put something out and observe the reaction. I've noticed several patterns with people who are fixed in their view of themselves as bodies exclusively. I made a joke last year around this time to a lady delivering flowers to the local church, who was worried about bits of the shabby roof falling down. I replied something along the lines of at least you'd have flowers for your funeral. She recognized it as a joke. Another lady shuddered and told me I shouldn't joke about death. Maybe reminded of the death of who she is in her world, the body.

It's jarring, isn't it,
Dear Matthew,

to come into an important life event and find that no one there believes as you do. (I was involved in a milder form of the same experience at a family reunion this weekend.  ;)  )

What's being said can sometimes be re-tuned to fit. For example, perhaps the afterlife or the between-lives is a 'rest' from the lessons involved in living. Our hearts don't lie, so I try to pay attention to what messages my heart responds.

I expect your knowing was a beacon for those ready to see beyond limited views, even without convincing them immediately.
Anyway, Bill knows.   :)

Bets

Hi Matthew

This must be the same friend for whom you requested prayers because of the uncertainty of the cause of his passing. I am wondering if there were many mentions of resting in peace because of that uncertainty and because folks were trying to convince themselves that he had finally found peace.

Yeah, you start to wonder if peace might not just be a little boring. But this afterlife stuff is so ...untouchable. Nobody wants it in casual conversation. And I wouldn'tw ant to see it used to rebuff or diminish someone's honest anguish and grief, which I see as natural reactions to death, especially unexpected and difficult ones. Still, you'd think we could be a little more conversational about this.

Another recent thread mentions a movie made about a book our friend Kardec has been discussing for ages here. The movie is about what I think is a BST where certain people end up after they die. The movie certainly look sinteresting. Some will think it sugarcoats a difficult topic. I mention it because I hope that it will bring a new ease to open discussion about topics like this , among people who aren't inclined to post places like here. That will be interesting to see.

Funerals are such strange things. I want a New Orleans jazz funeral, which I will undoubtedly not get! I think I posted somewhere here about a funeral I had to attend last spring. Had to attend? It became such a celebration of a life. I had never attended a Jewish funeral before, and I have a feeling this was not traditional. SHe was not even Jewish, she was ethnically Chinese, and they laughed about that, but the kids were/are being raised in that synagogue. Starting with the rabbi, individuals stood up and said what they loved about her. Even her husband and children (and they managed to not cry much). You wanted to run after her and say..."Come back! You can't leave us! You know how to live well!" Are all Jewish funerals like that? The young adults I was with thought it should be more formal and it was too long. That just goes to show how difficult it is to put on a funeral. And there was no talk of the afterlife, needless to say, but I am sure she is having a great time there!

Yeah this is really frustrating, not being able to talk about the person in terms of what is next for them. Now all we can do is wait for little messages from beyond. I think that this must be particularly frustrating for you in your position as a physician and as someone who trusts that there is a next chapter. Since you are so up close to some pretty saddening experiences, you can't exactly say to the family, oh it's OK they've just gone to the afterlife. That would be heartless even though it was meant in a positive way. I guess you rely on the rest of us to talk about this stuff a little more openly. Not that I haven't done my part! I've probably talked about it a little too much sometimes.

Talking about death in general is still hard, I guess I find bringing in the afterlife stuff makes it easier for me. But I still find it mind-boggling that so many years after Kubler-Ross, the medical profession as a group still finds these discussions difficult. It cuts to our deepest fears. I have a minor-role (nonmedical personell) at a major regional (teaching) hospital. Sometimes I am able to take advantage of the opportunity to go hear talks that are offered. One afternoon last fall I attended a talk offered by psychiatry department on ..sorry I don't have the notes in front of me, don't recall specifics ...something to do with helping people prepare to die. This was obviously having to do with folks with a terminal illness who would know their days were clearly numbered (as opposed to sudden death situation). The talk was given by a young resident. It was in a small conference room; not that many people attended. I frankly didn't hear anything new. I don't know the politics of these situations, I don't know if there wasn't much discussion because it was an old topic for many people besides the young resident, or because people didn't want to talk about how to help individuals facing this situation come to terms with it. I found it odd that there was not more interest in this. The young resident glowed after her talk, obviously pleased with the presentation and discussion. I had asked a question, and she thanked me for coming. Was she breaking public ground or just personal ground? I don't know. If you can't talk about dying in the context of being at a major hospital, where can you talk about it?

If you can't talk about dying, how can you talk about the afterlife?

Anyway, I hope Bill is finding peace enough to go out and party in the afterlife. If you think he might be temporarily stuck in a lower region*, maybe we should organize a group expidition and go looking for him and invite him to the party at the park.

*I suppose if he's gotten a little too peaceful, we could go looking for him too, to liven him up....