http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/study-links-carbon-dioxide-death-experiences/story?id=10324769

I've read cases of NDEs where brain activity was ZERO, and so I don't buy their explanation, personally.

There's this misconception that all NDEs are "well, he/she almost died, but they didn't really die and had a dream" and they don't realize that for at least some of them, THEY WERE DEAD, not just "almost".  The only difference between them and most deaths is that they came back; they didn't stay dead.

Well, they have to come up with one excuse after another just to 'prove' that there's no life after death and there's no hope.
So relax and watch Wrestlemania instead........

To me it smacks of yet another 'old and outdated belief disproved by scientists' scam.

Best wishes,
David.
:)

They are and will continue to chase their tails on this because they have invested so much in proving that it all comes from the brain. Just as they can't describe the moment of the big bang or prior, they will never find the seat of consciousness by looking for it in this tiny physical subset of the multidimensional universe. My dreams alone tell me I'm more than my physical body, but I have had some other good experiences too.

I understand that mainstream science and Penn Gillette believe that we are the liars and fabricators. I get it, but they are holding on to as many or more beliefs than those of us who see evidence for the afterlife; or as I would prefer to refer to it as Non Physical Matter Reality. That way it doesn't imply that one must die to get there or live here to not be there.

If they were to have an NDE or another significant non-physical experience, they would see that it is possible to experience non-physical reality in a manner that goes beyond their scientific theories.

A person can come up with a theory for just about anything.

Not necessarily. Here in the U.K. Dr Susan Blakemore (an arch debunker of all things spiritual) experienced an OBE but later dismissed it an an hallucination.
Some people will try to 'rationalise' anything.

Best wishes,
David.
:)

Actually it's very difficult to prove near death experiences simply because the person who has it cannot prove when it happened. In fact, even scientists cannot prove when it happened.

The entire fantasy experience could have transpired before "death" or even after resuscitation.

No one can prove when the fantasy happened.

The first step of proving / disproving NDE's is to establish EXACTLY when this NDE is happening. Obviously if we can prove it is happening while the body is alive we can shut the door on it.

Of course, we could always try resuscitating them and asking them about objects we left on the roof, but keeping this information a secret would be very hard to do and makes the test very fallible.

In short, I have not read any scientific tests performed that proved NDE's are real.

I have however read about scientific studies on mediums which is most likely the ONLY really testable "proof" of the afterlife.

I remember reading about Susan Blackmore's NDE, and her experience was really lacking when it came to experiencing non-physical reality. She mainly experienced more of the physical universe than usual.

She had the experience after doing a seance with an ouija board and smoking hash. Hardly the precursors to experiencing a higher state of consciousness.

If she would've experienced what other NDERs experience: a being of light, heavenly realms, divine love, a very detailed life review, a rememberance of who she really is, she might have quite a different opinion.

I had an experience that was like an NDE except that I didn't have a near death event. It was so clear during this experience that non-physical levels of reality exist, and such levels of being are what our existence is truly about. Our life in this world is just a temporary phase we go through as a learning experience. Our life in this world is like a drop of water in the ocean when compared to our eternal existence.

If one tries to judge such an experience while limiting one's self to one's rational mind, one will have a hard time remembering what was understood during the experience. If one remembers what the experience was like as one had it, one will realize that from the perspective of that state of being there is no doubt about what one experiences. One experiences with a depth of mind that far exceeds what one's rational mind can comprehend. One understands in a way that is both effortless and very clear.

Unexperienced people who deny NDEs and other non-physical experiences with their scientific explanations don't do anybody a favor. Going by my experience, it is very significant to know for certain that an eternal and wonderful existence awaits me. I don't see why some people are so hell bent on preventing others from finding out the same.  If they understood how comforting it is know that the afterlife exists, they wouldn't try to ruin it for others.

The so-called scientific approach is meaningless if a person isn't willing to seriously consider that there are levels of reality that can't be comprehended by a person who tries to do so according to the limiting parameters the physical world provides.

Perhaps some people try to deny the afterlife, because there is dirty laundry they don't want to deal with.


detheridge wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 3:13pm:

Not necessarily. Here in the U.K. Dr Susan Blakemore (an arch debunker of all things spiritual) experienced an OBE but later dismissed it an an hallucination. Some people will try to 'rationalise' anything. Best wishes, David. :)

wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 3:21pm:

Actually it's very difficult to prove near death experiences simply because the person who has it cannot prove when it happened. In fact, even scientists cannot prove when it happened. The entire fantasy experience could have transpired before "death" or even after resuscitation. No one can prove when the fantasy happened. The first step of proving / disproving NDE's is to establish EXACTLY when this NDE is happening. Obviously if we can prove it is happening while the body is alive we can shut the door on it. Of course, we could always try resuscitating them and asking them about objects we left on the roof, but keeping this information a secret would be very hard to do and makes the test very fallible. In short, I have not read any scientific tests performed that proved NDE's are real. I have however read about scientific studies on mediums which is most likely the ONLY really testable "proof" of the afterlife.

It would seem that your mind is made up. That its a fantasy. I am not sure where you are getting your data but perhaps asking one who has gone through the expearence might be helpful. I believe there are a few on the site than can put in their own experiences. They should know if they are real and if they personally require any further proof. In my case, when it comes to OOB's, and communication with others who are not in body, retrievals, etc,  I need no further proof than my own experiences. Not that I could convince a scientist. I don't feel that need to prove my personal experiences or levels of consciousness I expearence. Its like asking for proof that once your dead, your dead. It cant be done.

Hawkeye:

Apparently it is difficult to convince some souls that they are no longer occupying a physical body yet they still exist. Chances are that some so-called "science-based" skeptics have in some cases made the retrievel business more difficult.

If one is not willing to seek out their own subjective experiences to assess the possibility of the afterlife they really are wasting their time on this board as few if any are likely to be convinced by mainstream science which is continually chasing its tail in this realm as they seek an objective experience for verification, which as pointed out many times before is pretty futile.

Detherage wrote: Not necessarily. Here in the U.K. Dr Susan Blakemore (an arch debunker of all things spiritual) experienced an OBE but later dismissed it an an hallucination.

Yes, its annoying, she's always the 'go to' scientist when these matters are brought up in the British media. I remember her passing off the 'Scole Experiment' as fraudulent in the New Scientist without offering a shred of evidence. An initial believer in the paranormal she changed her mind when she was unable to replicate her obe and has since been the resident skeptic.

Of course now she says she is no longer going to pursue the skepticism because is just too taxing or something like that. Poor thing.

It's not fantasy for sure, all they have to do is prove 100% that the actual event is happening at a time when no machinery can record any brain waves. However, if the machine records brain waves before and right after resuscitation... well, then there is no way of telling when the "NDE" took place. Therefore, only if the person can actually point out an amazing string of test objects placed where they would only see them out of body can we scientifically say that they were in fact out of they're body.

Come on now, I am talking down on NDE's yes. BUT, I am also giving an example on how NDE's could potentially be scientifically proven and mentioning that mediums are more likely to prove the afterlife than NDE's. (I have read the Afterlife Experiments by Gary)

I think the best way to prove NDE's would be a massive experimentation project... ever see the movie Flatliners? the concept was people purposefully flat-lining.... well.... if this was done in a scientific way we could definitely test NDE's!

Sign up now! (Must sign waiver.)

LOL!!!!     :D  ;)  ;D

When you know, you know. It's just not really a priority to beat the dead horse of mainstream science.

I've had an OBE. Now, if I were one of those materialistic scientists, I would state "it was a hallucination". But this statement is quite dumb. With the same right I could state that it's a hallucination that I, here and now, am writing these words.

Spooky

what would they say about preminessions,when I traveled 2000 miles to a home and found my mother inlaw dieing.than finding that she was dead.all while out of body.than telling my wife her mother was dead,when I woke in the morning,and she did not beliene me,untill she got a phone call that very morning.What would they say about that.

Scientists. God love em. If theres something I've come to understand this year its that if you want something bad enough and you seek the answer, you are likely to find it.

Scientists and atheists (one and the same many times) are always looking to disprove something spiritual. They live for the physical world. Do you think they have ever approached an idea with the open mind to prove it rather than disprove it? Not very common. If they can't offer an explanation they usually just ignore it and hope someone else will offer it.

When you think of today's skeptic usually they have their names in lights and aren't really interested or have any desire to find out what is real or not if it is outside a well guarded belief and pay structure.  Nothing right or wrong with that but understand how it is.
A true skeptic is one who wants to find out what is real or not. I am a skeptic and I find it healthy.
A simple search of the internet shows there is definitely more going on in an NDE than dying brain activity . So an article like this highlights how within a belief structure it was formed.
But it really doesn't matter if you know for yourself by being skeptical and finding the truth.

George,
these materialistic scientists simply would ignore you. If they won't ignore you, they would doubt the witnesses that they're not credible and say it is just a confusion, a coincidence, and you could have already known that incident through other sources.

Everyone got to be a sceptic. But, unfortunately, this has become rare within the group of natural scientists regarding their own work. They too often confuse their concepts with (experienced) reality.

Spooky