I lost two siblings who passed away in childhood.
I miss them  and  sometimes think of what might have been if they lived.   
I also wonder if the souls feel they missed out on life.  Never marrying, having a family, growing old.
I wonder why I was allowed to live a life and they werent.   
Thanks for listening.
 

Well, for all we know, it could be part of their mission this time around to die young, and they would realize or be told that not long after dying.

....or
have even pre-planned an early departure before enterring the physical realm.

:) Bets

Whether their departure was pre planned, or due to circumstances beyond control, as also happens, I feel they most likly may have felt that they missed out on a part of life. That said, they are also unlikely to dwell on it. In fact they could be in body now. Just in differant bodies than the ones they had  while experiencing what little time they had previously with you. Perhaps even moving on to a differant life so as to enable a better chance of learning or experiencing the lessons needed to continue spiritualy. Your lessons may be better learned through this lifetime. Part of the lesson may be learned through the loss of your siblings. Send them your love and open your heart to loves return. 

Believing in pre-planned death is believing that everything is ordered. That chaos is only fantasy. Chaos isn't a fantasy. Random and unfortunate death is an act of chaos. It was not planned, and surely the soul of the victim is just as shocked if not more than the friends and relatives. "Oh that would be so terrible for that soul to have to start again."

Come on now. If there is no fairness here, why should there be fairness anywhere else? Life moves on. We get by. The soul does the same thing. Yeah, it has to start again and miss out on the things from that other life but we do the same things with our own unfortunate circumstances. And no matter how bad things get, they have a way of working themselves out.

Stone, you go too far in saying that a belief in pre-planned death means believing that everything is ordered.  You don't have to be at either end of that spectrum, you know, i.e. it doesn't have to be that everything is chaos and unplanned and uncontrolled or that everything is planned.  Just like in this life, some things can be planned by some entities and other things not planned by anyone.

Hi Stone


StoneColdTrue wrote on Apr 12^th, 2010 at 11:22pm:

Believing in pre-planned death is believing that everything is ordered. That chaos is only fantasy.

Now why would that be true? We're (you're?) looking at it from the viewpoint of this incarnation and the Earth Life System. Once you get back 'up there' (for want of a better phrase) you see the whole story which may comprise thousands of lives (or more).
Why not have a pre-planned death, if that's serving another purpose: eg to affects others lives into questioning the nature of their existence?


Quote:

Chaos isn't a fantasy. Random and unfortunate death is an act of chaos.

No it isn't. Death is inevitable, but the random nature may have a deeper meaning not immediately apparent to others. Just as there are no coincidences, there are no random acts. And remember from a soul's perspective death is the equivalent of walking out of one room (this life) and into another (the afterlife). It's sop natural that it's no big deal to those who realise what's happened.


Quote:

It was not planned, and surely the soul of the victim is just as shocked if not more than the friends and relatives. "Oh that would be so terrible for that soul to have to start again."

Again, why? Once we remember in the afterlife all that we came to do and why then everything makes sense. Once the soul has woken up to what's happened/ been retrieved then it's on to the next phase and the next life.
The soul doesn't have to start again, simply continue where he/she left off.


Quote:

Come on now. If there is no fairness here, why should there be fairness anywhere else?

Now why is that the case? Maybe you chose an 'unfair' life to learn something. I'm not saying that its a not a pain in the butt to deal with, but there's a reason for everything. Just because you or I can't see that reason in this existence doesn't negate the principle.


Quote:

Life moves on. We get by. The soul does the same thing. Yeah, it has to start again and miss out on the things from that other life but we do the same things with our own unfortunate circumstances. And no matter how bad things get, they have a way of working themselves out.

The soul has to start again in a new life, with a whole new bunch of circumstances and OPPORTUNITIES. Missign out on the things from a previous life may not even be relevant to the new life.


Best wishes,
David.
:)

A man attends a party in which he has way too much alcohol to drink. He's arrogant when he's told not to drive home and he does it anyway. He gets into his car and he drives. He's impaired by the alcohol and finds it difficult to stay in the lanes. He gets a text message and focuses on answering it and driving at the same time. The conclusion is a nasty wreck and a fatality or more.

Now by the assertions here, this death was planned before it occurred. For the balance of the world!  ::)

It occurred because one single individual made too many mistakes. Yes, his soul will suffer for this and probably begin again or take a significant amount of time to forgive itself. But all he really had to do was make the right decisions.

A natural disaster takes thousands of lives. An airplane crashes into a building. A suicide bomber makes an impact. A child slips and falls off a cliff. A boy drowns after suffering hypothermia from flipping a canoe.

You're saying all this is pre-planned and trying to justify it as if its for the good of humanity? You're believing that life is a story book and its pages are written. That's so obnoxiously ridiculous. We control fate through our actions. Right here. Right now. Yes, it affects the whole world but we aren't on a track unknown to us but known to whats inside us. That is an argument to free will. A man doesn't murder another man because his soul was told it was for the greater balance. Geeze.

I'm not saying everything is chaos. I am saying life is both chaos and order. Chaos exists but it is countered through order. Chaos meaning that nothing in life is written. Random acts, even at times ordered through chaotic actions. That's the amazing and unique thing about it. The true power of order is through our conscious. There are few exceptions and they deal with the systems of the universe. Death is just part of the cycle. How and when is chaos' role whether through an individual or through nature.

Bottom line: **** happens, but things eventually work out in one way or another. Chaos and order. That's life.

Hi Stone,

the belief that life is mostly planned and very little is accidental is a long held belief passed on from people who visit the afterlife and come back to tell what they have learned.  Even this site is about visiting the Afterlife, so why would you be surprised to find this belief here? 

Aren't you curious about what all we can learn from our visits there?  And who we can meet there?  You've said that you're going to study about the afterlife but you are still caught in the ego's maya, that mix of pseudo-knowing your self and the habit of building all your reality out of what logic you can glean from the physical world.

As they say, it's time to get with the program  :D

Bets

Hi again Stone,


StoneColdTrue wrote on Apr 14^th, 2010 at 6:42am:

A man attends a party in which he has way too much alcohol to drink. He's arrogant when he's told not to drive home and he does it anyway. He gets into his car and he drives. He's impaired by the alcohol and finds it difficult to stay in the lanes. He gets a text message and focuses on answering it and driving at the same time. The conclusion is a nasty wreck and a fatality or more. Now by the assertions here, this death was planned before it occurred. For the balance of the world!  ::)

No, not necessarily. The choice in the situation was planned. It could have gone one of two ways -either the drunken twit died or he faced up to a problem with alcohol and got his act together. As Robert Monroe found in his explorations, a lesson is repeated until learned. So this might be an explanation as to why you keep going around lives. You keep doing it until you get it right, and your level of understanding (or otherwise) determines how many times you have to go through that.

And I'll point out that its not for the balance of the world, it's for the balance of YOU in your path of existence. Various people agree to be teachers or helpers in this through lifetimes, including being BOTH victimisers or victims.


Quote:

It occurred because one single individual made too many mistakes. Yes, his soul will suffer for this and probably begin again or take a significant amount of time to forgive itself. But all he really had to do was make the right decisions.

Any decision whether right or wrong has a learning quotient built in. Sometimes we have to get it wrong to understand what the lesson is/was. The level of suffering is related directly to the level of understanding. If you finally get it, the suffering goes.
This happened to me a few years ago, with three years of suffering over a situation I found myself in (the details of which needn't concern us here). One day I had a 'lightbulb moment' and the suffering stopped as I finally understood what that situation had been all about.


Quote:

A natural disaster takes thousands of lives. An airplane crashes into a building. A suicide bomber makes an impact. A child slips and falls off a cliff. A boy drowns after suffering hypothermia from flipping a canoe. You're saying all this is pre-planned and trying to justify it as if its for the good of humanity?

That's exactly what I'm suggesting, and not for the good of humanity in the first place, but for the experience of those souls involved. It's been written elsewhere by far more erudite and authoritative folks than I will ever be that there are no victims, only volunteers.



Quote:

You're believing that life is a story book and its pages are written. That's so obnoxiously ridiculous.

No, I'm saying that we'll all have certain experiences that we WILL go through in life, because they are pre-life agreements. If you haven't made that agreement you won't experience it. After that come the probabilities which are somewhat subject to your own free will and as a result are malleable to a degree. As a result, a new avenue may open up in one life that will be explored more fully in another lifetime yet to come.
That doesn't look ridiculous to me, and who's being obnoxious using such a term?



Quote:

We control fate through our actions. Right here. Right now. Yes, it affects the whole world but we aren't on a track unknown to us but known to whats inside us. That is an argument to free will. A man doesn't murder another man because his soul was told it was for the greater balance. Geeze.

Lighten up and stop being so dismissive. A man may well murder someone because the victim may get to do the same thing in another lifetime. Both as a result have experienced both the actions of perpetrator and victim and have gained understanding. The point there is that you are as dead now as you're ever going to be. Very often (again according to more authoritative sources than me) hard lifetimes and dysfunctional relationships can be soul contracts to assist each person involved in growth, in exactly the same way that someone may choose a life blind, deaf or in a wheelchair.
And its also been pointed out (to give one example) that Stevie Wonder 'sees' things in people that others don't.
That may (and I stress may because I'm speculating) be a result of a pre life contract or decision to be a blind musician this time around.


Quote:

I'm not saying everything is chaos. I am saying life is both chaos and order. Chaos exists but it is countered through order. Chaos meaning that nothing in life is written. Random acts, even at times ordered through chaotic actions. That's the amazing and unique thing about it. The true power of order is through our conscious. There are few exceptions and they deal with the systems of the universe. Death is just part of the cycle. How and when is chaos' role whether through an individual or through nature. Bottom line: **** happens, but things eventually work out in one way or another. Chaos and order. That's life.

Yes, but I'll reiterate my earlier point. Chaos theory has its own set of principles. If the proverbial butterfly flapping its wings in Australia causes a snowstorm in Europe, that's because the two may be linked in some way. It's not chaos as such, just a series of synchronicities that operate outside of our current range of understanding.

Best wishes,
David.

Many thanks, Detheridge and Stone,

for having such a fine 'dialogue'  ;) .

You're an excellent teacher, Detheridge!

I apologize that my visits here are brief
due to other responsibilities, and so I don't
explain what I'm thinking very well.  I fully
agree with what Detheridege said !

Bets

Betson,

It is possible that I am misunderstanding what is being said, or that I'm being misunderstood. For that I do apologize.

My thoughts are never based directly from my ego. I will admit that I do struggle with my ego but the progress I have made from the past is pretty incredible. I use experience, education, research, and logic. Logic can't be dismissed. What I have come to accept in the past few months has created quite the battle with my ego, and logic derived from my increased consciousness dealt the mightiest blows.

What I am interpreting from the comments and what I find very difficult to accept is that each of our lives are already planned and programmed. I actually HATE this. I don't hate it for myself. I hate it for all of humanity. It takes away what I have found to be so miraculous and special about life. It's a flawed perception that puts the whole world on the pages of a narrative. It isn't unique. But then again so it would be written for me to think such.

I have a metaphor for this using modern technology, but i'll save it for now because I get the feeling there is a misinterpretation between the comments. Unless you do all believe and accept that our lives are programmed to be the way they are...which is both depressing and illogical. It takes away free will.

I am not in any way denying that there is a plan in life. I very much believe that, but I believe this plan is to be enacted completely through our free will and rise in consciousness. It shouldn't be written before my birth what I decide to do tomorrow. That should be completely left to me. That's all I'm arguing.

Detheridge,


Quote:

No, not necessarily. The choice in the situation was planned. It could have gone one of two ways -either the drunken twit died or he faced up to a problem with alcohol and got his act together. As Robert Monroe found in his explorations, a lesson is repeated until learned. So this might be an explanation as to why you keep going around lives. You keep doing it until you get it right, and your level of understanding (or otherwise) determines how many times you have to go through that.

But what I'm saying is that this wreck and the outcome was not decided before the man's birth. It wasn't programmed to occur. It occurred directly from his decisions and with every choice there is a consequence. If he lived, then hopefully the lesson is learned. If he died, the lesson is a harsher one but he will get the opportunity to absolve it.


Quote:

And I'll point out that its not for the balance of the world, it's for the balance of YOU in your path of existence. Various people agree to be teachers or helpers in this through lifetimes, including being BOTH victimisers or victims.

Right. I believe this and have for a long time. I constantly make decisions consciously and attempt to predict the outcome. I have no regrets in this life. I am very capable of seeing how my mistakes benefitted me, or how a negative outcome impacted me into the person I have become. As of right now, there's nothing I would ever want to go back and change in my life because it would change who I am and what I have learned.


Quote:

Any decision whether right or wrong has a learning quotient built in. Sometimes we have to get it wrong to understand what the lesson is/was. The level of suffering is related directly to the level of understanding. If you finally get it, the suffering goes. This happened to me a few years ago, with three years of suffering over a situation I found myself in (the details of which needn't concern us here). One day I had a 'lightbulb moment' and the suffering stopped as I finally understood what that situation had been all about.

Of course. This should by now be made more aware in people because it's a universal understanding that mistakes are only lessons to learn from and improve upon. I learn from not only my mistakes but also from observing the mistakes of others. Good use of the self conscious and the conscious. I went through a complete year of overwhelming depression, thoughts of death, and yearning to be free of my life. I have come to realize this was and had always been the weakness of my ego. I too experienced the "lightbulb" and life has been picking up ever since.


Quote:

That's exactly what I'm suggesting, and not for the good of humanity in the first place, but for the experience of those souls involved. It's been written elsewhere by far more erudite and authoritative folks than I will ever be that there are no victims, only volunteers.

Can't agree with you. It doesn't make sense that lessons are prewritten for different souls. That a higher source said "Ok, this guy will blow people up." That is basically saying that he had absolutely no control over his actions, because it was already decided beforehand. So why isn't that a lesson for everyone? Maybe because you and I CHOSE not to blow people up. An act which was created directly from the psychological impact of a violent theocracy in which the individual worships since birth. Not because it was decided for him. He made the decision, and he will learn from the consequences.

My understanding of your assertion as a metaphor: I create a robot and I program it to make an action. It makes the action and that action has a negative impact. Then I say the robot must learn from this mistake, despite that I had already decided its action.



Quote:

No, I'm saying that we'll all have certain experiences that we WILL go through in life, because they are pre-life agreements. If you haven't made that agreement you won't experience it. After that come the probabilities which are somewhat subject to your own free will and as a result are malleable to a degree. As a result, a new avenue may open up in one life that will be explored more fully in another lifetime yet to come. That doesn't look ridiculous to me, and who's being obnoxious using such a term?

So we already agree we're going to murder someone? We agree beforehand to commit atrocities. Ugh. Just for our life experience? What in its right mind would agree to such a thing? It makes no sense.




Quote:

Lighten up and stop being so dismissive. A man may well murder someone because the victim may get to do the same thing in another lifetime. Both as a result have experienced both the actions of perpetrator and victim and have gained understanding. The point there is that you are as dead now as you're ever going to be. Very often (again according to more authoritative sources than me) hard lifetimes and dysfunctional relationships can be soul contracts to assist each person involved in growth, in exactly the same way that someone may choose a life blind, deaf or in a wheelchair. And its also been pointed out (to give one example) that Stevie Wonder 'sees' things in people that others don't. That may (and I stress may because I'm speculating) be a result of a pre life contract or decision to be a blind musician this time around.

There is no fate but what we make.

I believe as Detheridge stated. We are all here to learn something, even the  most horrible events teach the soul something. Without suffering or experience, we do not reach out for understanding and do not grow.  I do believe that when you are in the  Afterlife, you plan out things you want to experience. In the afterlife, you are giddy from being happy there and kinda get over the top with the things you want to learn sometimes. Yeah, I'll take bankruptcy, disability and homelessness! Bring it on! Thanks! Then you get here and you have forgotten what you "signed up for" and start to think, what the heck?? I think you can ask for help in modifying your plan and that some karmas can be lessened upon request.

But even the most horrendous things have value. As a result of this type of thinking, while I have compassion for people, I do think that there is a higher plan involved. Yes, I hate murder, abuse, all of that. But I can't see what the person who is suffering from this has done or chosen before getting here.

I do believe in helping your fellow man, 100% and I do what I can to help those around me and strangers as well. In fact, one of the indian mystics says to help your fellow man even if it should result in death, since we all have to die someday. Why not die trying to help someone, what could be more noble?

I like the thoughts expressed in one of the ebooks I posted here, No Time for Karma, where the author talks about we make agreement with people before we come here for certain things to happen so we can learn. Then when we get back to the other side, we have conversations, like yeah you divorced me and left me penniless? Wow, you really got me that time, ha ha!  What would you like me to do to you next time??

I read recently where some people who have been too intellectual in past lives sometimes come back as mentally impaired. Then they don't have to be "all in their head" anymore but can just experience life on a much simpler level. How do we know what a soul has already experienced or what it needs? Since there is no death of the soul, what is murder? Just a removal of the physical body. While we have laws and moral compunction about it, the soul continues on nonetheless.

We make agreements and plans IMO and that's what you see here. Nothing happens by accident. It's all for the education of the soul. The good, the bad, the ugly.  When we can step away from what is happening and look at it in a detached matter, we suffer less.

I myself have had more than my share of suffering and drama, but now I fear very little. I realize that I can be poor or rich, ill or healthy, with family or without, and still survive and prosper. I know the immortality of my soul.

I've learned very valuable lessons. Most of which is not to judge, not to criticize, and to look at myself first. I've learned that you have to come out of your intellect and balance with your heart. Hard, hard lessons.

Detheridge...that was remarkably well described and dovetails perfectly with my beliefs.

From a personal standpoint, I have recently worked through a past life wherein I was killed at 17 in a car accident.  The accident had a low probability in my life plan, however, it was a possibility, and at its fruition it forced a reshuffling of subsequent lifetimes...I still suffered death in a war (WWII instead of Viet Nam), which was one of the energetic experiences I chose to learn from...just a different war than initially expected.  Interesting that members of my family then are with me now, albeit in different capacities.

As for the initial question posited...I did feel gypped...I had alot of ego-centered anger at not being able to complete that life.  One of the tasks I just worked through was to allow the anger with that "character's portion of the actor/soul" to dissipate, to forgive and to realize that while I did not get to live that life to its planned conclusion, alot of what I wanted to do has been done between now and then (early 1900's), and it served my soul mates to deal with the emotion of loss and seeming abandonment. 

Once again, Detheridge, your comments so clearly depict the understanding I have as to how this "system" works...its logic and method make the most of every opportunity...providing a basic framework with immutable stage props and story plots and allowing we characters to act our part, either by the script or to extemporaneously express our own genius.  Also, reading about that 17 year old's family, how they dealt with his passing and the void he left upon his death and seeing it with the perspective of where we all are now just elevates this experience from one of tragedy to one of enlightenment, understanding and a tremendous sense of continuity...(Stone, each character/ego from each life is right there with you now...if you work at this stuff enough you can hear them talking to you).  What a great game!

I like to think I form my opinions more from my conscious than my self conscious. I'm not using what I want or desire to be the truth, I'm forming it based on what I have obtained from outside myself. It seems to me that this "system" throws out science, logic, psychology, and most things that we have come to understand as universal in the physical world. If so, then all of these things are meant to confuse us because they truly have no baring on anything.

Also...where exactly does the "Afterlife" play its part? From each of your understandings it seems the Afterlife is nothing more than a resort for R&R before going back to "life." So is there ever a point where we get to just stay there for eternity and quit coming to earth?

My hope was always that the concept of life and life after death would be something to look forward to, and to see as truly unique. I shouldn't have the capability to think it flawed. Unless someone can explain this concept that doesn't make it seem inferior to my own understanding of life, as well as I what I have come to understand from my own experiences and reading the experiences of others.

So by your understanding as well, the system is for every individual to experience every possible experience and scenerio of life...correct? That is the means of which we learn. Not that I could learn from my own consciousness and everything surrounding it. I just don't see why it is necessary, or that it is very unique and miraculous compared to what I believe. 

My interpretation is that I am the actor now in control of the character. I'm not the puppet, I'm the real boy. I'm the player, not the sim. You and I are truly unique, connected, and learning from one another. Focusing on strengthening the overall consciousness will bring satisfaction to our world and our lives, and through death we will become true human beings and enter a new world of love and new knowledge and lessons. When I have finished my goals here, that is what I am expecting. If I need to return to for the purpose of improving this world further, then so be it.

I hardly care about what I need to experience. I have denied many, many desires of my ego for a greater purpose. I care about enhancing the lives of others and making them laugh and enjoy what they have. I care about this planet and the amazing creatures inhabiting it. I care about the overall improvement of humanity. I care about love. I care about our creations. I want to impact the world in a positive way.

I hope that if any of you can agree with me on anything, that this is the proper attitude to maintain in your lives.

StoneColdTrue wrote on Apr 14^th, 2010 at 12:58pm:

What I am interpreting from the comments and what I find very difficult to accept is that each of our lives are already planned and programmed. I actually HATE this. I don't hate it for myself. I hate it for all of humanity. It takes away what I have found to be so miraculous and special about life. It's a flawed perception that puts the whole world on the pages of a narrative. It isn't unique. But then again so it would be written for me to think such.

I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of the terms...I think you are looking at "planned and programmed" as "fixed and immutable" which would not work at all.  From my understanding, you choose a body which is in a particular location and will fit a timeframe in which various immutable, probable and possible events will occur, providing opportunities to learn, or scripts, props and plots allowing your character to act (thanks again, Beau).  The timing of your birth brings with it various personality proclivities and character traits which will also help guide some aspect of your actions and reactions to the various events you will experience in that body.  Within this framework, you and other soul mates loosely plan the primary script of the life you will live together...each bringing with them specific intuition, knowledge, enlightenment, and experiences which will be further developed and brought to bear as your lives unfold throughout the "play".

"Planned and programmed" as you describe it would not leave any room for free will (described at length in previous threads), and is not quite an accurate description...a prelife plan is more a soul's choice of direction upon incarnation, a review of the lessons and opportunities and suggested and desireable choices available, the soulmates chosen to interact with and experience events with, a basic script intended to enable the soul to reach their experiential goals, and as circumstances allow, to follow (the little voices in your ear, or the nudge you get at just the right time) and ideally act or react in a loving or beneficial way...your drunk guy's plan may well have included a lot of free liquor and a character proclivity, motive and opportunity to hit that liquor hard and present him with the choice to drive or not...soul contracts with those affected may well have been set up for him to get taken home by a friend (best choice), hitchhike and get rolled, robbed and wake up in a ditch (not so good), or get behind the wheel and drive into a school bus full of kids(awful choice)...while the opportunity for the choices were planned, he made his own choice and nothing was "programmed".

When something isn't tracking sometimes it is good to look at the terms being used as written communication can be flawed.  I had a misconception about the term "soul contract".  I spend my working days struggling with every aspect of written contracts, and the goal is to make the written words meet the exact meaning and intent of the parties involved, and to ensure every aspect of them addresses the needs and desires of the parties.  It took me awhile to understand a "soul contract" isn't like a written, negotiated, hard and fast commitment between souls...it is simply conversational shorthand for a desire between two or more souls to work together incarnate on certain experiences or lessons, due to each others expertise, desire for specific experiences or simply because of the regard between them.  They are made in prelife planning as well as upon the apparent decisions you make right now and how those decisions may change the current direction your choices are sending you, enabling you and various soul mates to benefit from the effects of those decisions.

Just my understanding...hope it helps.

usetawuz wrote on Apr 14^th, 2010 at 4:44pm:

StoneColdTrue wrote on Apr 14th, 2010 at 12:58pm: What I am interpreting from the comments and what I find very difficult to accept is that each of our lives are already planned and programmed. I actually HATE this. I don't hate it for myself. I hate it for all of humanity. It takes away what I have found to be so miraculous and special about life. It's a flawed perception that puts the whole world on the pages of a narrative. It isn't unique. But then again so it would be written for me to think such. I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of the terms...I think you are looking at "planned and programmed" as "fixed and immutable" which would not work at all.  From my understanding, you choose a body which is in a particular location and will fit a timeframe in which various immutable, probable and possible events will occur, providing opportunities to learn, or scripts, props and plots allowing your character to act (thanks again, Beau).  The timing of your birth brings with it various personality proclivities and character traits which will also help guide some aspect of your actions and reactions to the various events you will experience in that body.  Within this framework, you and other soul mates loosely plan the primary script of the life you will live together...each bringing with them specific intuition, knowledge, enlightenment, and experiences which will be further developed and brought to bear as your lives unfold throughout the "play". "Planned and programmed" as you describe it would not leave any room for free will (described at length in previous threads), and is not quite an accurate description...a prelife plan is more a soul's choice of direction upon incarnation, a review of the lessons and opportunities and suggested and desireable choices available, the soulmates chosen to interact with and experience events with, a basic script intended to enable the soul to reach their experiential goals, and as circumstances allow, to follow (the little voices in your ear, or the nudge you get at just the right time) and ideally act or react in a loving or beneficial way...your drunk guy's plan may well have included a lot of free liquor and a character proclivity, motive and opportunity to hit that liquor hard and present him with the choice to drive or not...soul contracts with those affected may well have been set up for him to get taken home by a friend (best choice), hitchhike and get rolled, robbed and wake up in a ditch (not so good), or get behind the wheel and drive into a school bus full of kids(awful choice)...while the opportunity for the choices were planned, he made his own choice and nothing was "programmed". When something isn't tracking sometimes it is good to look at the terms being used as written communication can be flawed.  I had a misconception about the term "soul contract".  I spend my working days struggling with every aspect of written contracts, and the goal is to make the written words meet the exact meaning and intent of the parties involved, and to ensure every aspect of them addresses the needs and desires of the parties.  It took me awhile to understand a "soul contract" isn't like a written, negotiated, hard and fast commitment between souls...it is simply conversational shorthand for a desire between two or more souls to work together incarnate on certain experiences or lessons, due to each others expertise, desire for specific experiences or simply because of the regard between them.  They are made in prelife planning as well as upon the apparent decisions you make right now and how those decisions may change the current direction your choices are sending you, enabling you and various soul mates to benefit from the effects of those decisions. Just my understanding...hope it helps.

Yes. That is a post I don't find myself feeling contradiction with. I'm finding that I am starting to have an impact on many of the people in my life, and how their interpretation of life and increase in consciousness is slowly peeking when we have all spent a couple of years never discussing the matter. Of everyone I know personally, I seem to have achieved the most consciousness and spent the most time with the subject. This has always puzzled me. I have not physically experienced many of my personal desires, and I know exactly how I could and yet still choose not to. I have spent most of my life in observation and because of such have developed a natural understanding and practice of both psychology and philosophy...and I really, really enjoy using both to help improve people's lives. I've accepted this is the role I play, and though it requires frequent beatings on my ego, I'm not likely to change character.

Back to the subject, I feel that anyone who dies young is going to feel gypped. Dying young is probably the worst thing I can conceive of for an individual. Once I became more self aware, my ego developed a greater fear of this. Because there is so much life left to live, its hard not ask or wonder if you miss out on what you have planned and will plan. If I were to die tomorrow, I would most certainly be disappointed. Its the largest blow the ego can suffer, and mine has taken quite a few poundings already. I would feel gypped on what I didn't get to experience, but it would bother me more of leaving everyone behind and not getting to continue my life with them. But you can't cry forever. Where there's a will, there is a way.

I'll address my thoughts on each of your comments in italics below your paragraph...my ability to make this computer do what I want is lacking...and I can't find my teenage daughter to instruct me... 


StoneColdTrue wrote on Apr 14^th, 2010 at 4:25pm:

I like to think I form my opinions more from my conscious than my self conscious. I'm not using what I want or desire to be the truth, I'm forming it based on what I have obtained from outside myself. It seems to me that this "system" throws out science, logic, psychology, and most things that we have come to understand as universal in the physical world. If so, then all of these things are meant to confuse us because they truly have no baring on anything. I tend to combine my opinions from both sources as I find inspiration (from higherself/soul) often has significant insight into what I am dealing with...and not from a state of desire, but a request for information...and I have learned that science, logic, psychology in the physical world tend to be subject to more confusion than those truths I can obtain from within.  We have differences in terminology and sources of "truth". Also...where exactly does the "Afterlife" play its part? From each of your understandings it seems the Afterlife is nothing more than a resort for R&R before going back to "life." So is there ever a point where we get to just stay there for eternity and quit coming to earth? The afterlife is our home, our heaven, our natural habitat; we return there after our latest class/lesson/play on earth.  Heaven is where we see without the blinders held in place by our third dimensional reality...where we see the reality of all we are in spirit. You can choose to stay there in spirit, however, it appears to be desireable to take one's opportunities incarnate, and frankly, I enjoy the opportunity and apparently seem to take full advantage of them...I am glad to be here now and know where I am going after my physical passing. My hope was always that the concept of life and life after death would be something to look forward to, and to see as truly unique. I shouldn't have the capability to think it flawed. Unless someone can explain this concept that doesn't make it seem inferior to my own understanding of life, as well as I what I have come to understand from my own experiences and reading the experiences of others. From my standpoint, life and death are to be looked forward to...death is simply the expiration of the biological body I inhabit...its passing is not my passing.  As far as your thoughts on the flaws of the "system"...while you have free will to think anything you want, could those flaws not actually be your misunderstanding?  But moreover, why would you want to judge others beliefs as superior or inferior to yours?  You have yours, which you have created over your lifetime, with experiences,thoughts and inspiration...everyone else to some level or another, has theirs.  We are here to share these ideas with each other and some fit while others don't...seems to me it is more an effort in understanding than an effort toward value. So by your understanding as well, the system is for every individual to experience every possible experience and scenerio of life...correct? That is the means of which we learn. Not that I could learn from my own consciousness and everything surrounding it. I just don't see why it is necessary, or that it is very unique and miraculous compared to what I believe.  I think the "system" is for souls incarnate to experience what they choose to experience, I do not believe it is possible for a single soul to experience everything life has to offer, however, I do not know that it is not possible.  We learn from the experiences we have on earth, we learn from being in soul in heaven as well, but I think that the density and intensity of life incarnate increases the value of the lesson and its benefit to the soul...to me the magnitude of the experience of living incarnate is amazingly miraculous, and while in meditational reviews of past lives I have sensed those lives from the standpoint of the soul, and I can tell you your higher self is seeing, feeling, sensing your life way more than anything you can even imagine...miraculous indeed!  As to whether it is necessary or not, who knows, but regardless, what a great ride! My interpretation is that I am the actor now in control of the character. I'm not the puppet, I'm the real boy. I'm the player, not the sim. You and I are truly unique, connected, and learning from one another. Focusing on strengthening the overall consciousness will bring satisfaction to our world and our lives, and through death we will become true human beings and enter a new world of love and new knowledge and lessons. When I have finished my goals here, that is what I am expecting. If I need to return to for the purpose of improving this world further, then so be it. My belief differs in that my soul is the actor, while my current ego, together with the body I inhabit, is the character of the play of my life.  No puppets...free will, remember?  I too am the real boy...a true to life character in the miraculous, living play I have the honor in which to act.  You are playing the same role for your soul/actor...and I am in agreement with you from this point on...except for the part where we become true human beings through death...all death is doing is shaking off the restrictions of our biological body and returning to our natural state. I hardly care about what I need to experience. I have denied many, many desires of my ego for a greater purpose. I care about enhancing the lives of others and making them laugh and enjoy what they have. I care about this planet and the amazing creatures inhabiting it. I care about the overall improvement of humanity. I care about love. I care about our creations. I want to impact the world in a positive way. Agree, except for denying many desires for a greater purpose...if you don't care what you need to experience, for what higher purpose might you be denying your desires?  If you find pleasure in enhancing the lives of others, might that be your intended purpose?  If so, and you can fulfill your desires while benefitting others, why deny yourself?  This life isn't intended to be one of self denial, rather self actualization. I hope that if any of you can agree with me on anything, that this is the proper attitude to maintain in your lives.

Seems to me we agree on quite a few points, however, that isn't what is important.  Rather, to share each others beliefs and maybe pick up a clue or two from someone else's experiences, beliefs, understandings and help us each to find our way to an understanding that helps each of us. 

I think where I find there is a change from character to actor is that increase in consciousness. I at one time and along with most people I know, did not have any concept of that consciousness or that I was anything more than myself or that life was more than the material world my generation worships so much. I was just living and unhappy but still pushing through and playing my part.

And then that lightbulb was just as powerful as Truman realizing it was all an act (referencing film the Truman Show) and I could recognize the set, recognize how the character had been developed, and see now that there is purpose for both the actor and the character and that we are now one. I feel very close to my soul. Very close. I'm only 4 or 5 months into this understanding, so I can hardly even imagine what I will have learned and experienced in another 23 years.

As for denying those desires for a better purpose...I guess the only way to describe it is that I have for a very long time been capable of reading between lines and I get these signals I can't describe. I can give people advice that I know is the right advice and I don't even know how I come up with it. It just pops up. I find many things to be pretty predictable with other people. When my advice is not considered, the prediction I made to  that outcome is often right on the money. I used to get frustrated with this but came to accept I can only offer and people have to live and learn for themselves.

I do think much of my purpose is enhancing other lives, because doing so is what really makes me feel good about myself. I have the tools to do it. My whole life has been through deep observation and analyzing of everything around me. After I had let my ego take so many punches it collapsed and I had no choice but to spend a year trying to pick myself up, and at the end of it all I found "God" so to speak and life is so very beautiful to me. I don't like society so much and I would like it to change, but life is amazing and I want to spend the rest of it enhancing myself and all of the lives around me.

Oh, and I like your reference to Heaven as the natural habitat. Very good way to put it.

StoneColdTrue wrote on Apr 14^th, 2010 at 9:16pm:

As for denying those desires for a better purpose...I guess the only way to describe it is that I have for a very long time been capable of reading between lines and I get these signals I can't describe. I can give people advice that I know is the right advice and I don't even know how I come up with it. It just pops up. I find many things to be pretty predictable with other people. When my advice is not considered, the prediction I made to  that outcome is often right on the money. I used to get frustrated with this but came to accept I can only offer and people have to live and learn for themselves.

Therein lies wisdom, and don't be surprised when some of those you've tried to help come back to you acknowledging your efforts on their behalf.  If you ever speak with an akashic reader, ask if you are a light worker.  I'm not sure what it is, but you are certainly carrying a lantern, holding a light in the darkness.

Even those who die young have full and complete lives. In fact the lessons learned by dieing or being around a young person doing so could be more fulfilling than from around one that has lived a longer life. Perhaps asking a child who is dying or someone who works with them would open up many eyes. That is not saying that they dont want to live a longer life, but length of life has nothing to do with learning the needed lessons or expearencing love to its fullest degree. Many people feel loss when someone young dies but I beleave that feeling may be conected to ego. What they will be missing. What their loss will be.

hawkeye wrote on Apr 17^th, 2010 at 1:10pm:

Even those who die young have full and complete lives. In fact the lessons learned by dieing or being around a young person doing so could be more fulfilling than from around one that has lived a longer life. Perhaps asking a child who is dying or someone who works with them would open up many eyes. That is not saying that they dont want to live a longer life, but length of life has nothing to do with learning the needed lessons or expearencing love to its fullest degree. Many people feel loss when someone young dies but I beleave that feeling may be conected to ego. What they will be missing. What their loss will be.

I understand your point and I agree to a large extent.  Some foreshortened lives are completely planned and are expected to provide energetic lessons to all involved; what gets one's attention more than the loss of one so close and so dear who will not have the opportunity to continue on with their family?  The lessons learned are particularly poignant and powerful, and the messages provided are full of the content intended by and for all concerned. 

However, some early deaths are absolutely accidental.  The perfect storm of circumstance and free will can arise and take over the stage or setting and result in the death of a character.  No planning...just an accident.  The possibilities are always there, but the probabilities are so low that only minimal prelife planning for that eventuality is made, and upon its occurrence there is a rush to put circumstances/opportunities/players in place to fill the void left by the soul who departed unexpectedly.  And while a tragedy, as with any other premature loss of life to we human beings, from the soul standpoint it is simply an early departure from the "game" or "play" and a replanning of lifetimes and events in which to participate in future lives.  I had an "accident" a little over a hundred years ago with just this sort of situation.

   

I'm digging this thread! It's kind of like when you are cast as the victim in a murder mystery. You get iced in the first ten minutes, but there will be other plays. Lucky for the ones who physically leave us, they don't have to wait around all night for the curtain call. ;)

Howard Storm did say his vision of the future included people celebrating death as opposed to mourning it, which to me makes a lot of sense whether true or not. If everyone came to a conscious understanding of what death really is, we wouldn't fear it or feel so bad about it. I've had a good bit of people I loved die in my life, but I've never really shed a tear or spent any time mourning them. That was always natural and I wondered why I did that. I perceived it was that I either just couldn't accept the fact, or I didn't care. But I know I loved those people so surely it wasn't the latter.

I think now that maybe my subconscious had an understanding that their deaths were for the best. Each of them suffered from terrible diseases. The only time that I ever really feel death to be unfortunate is from the sudden loss of a young person, despite the affect. I don't really care that the death has an impact which works in some way. It's still unfortunate. I don't feel for myself, I feel for that person and what they don't get to experience in THAT life. So enough of the ego stuff in that aspect.

A 20 year old boy drowned 10 feet from the dock at my lakehouse a few weeks ago. I've never met him nor was I around for what happened. But I feel for his family, his two friends that were there, and his spirit which is surely pretty upset. "Oh thats his ego thats upset." Whatever. It still sucks. But they did steal a canoe and decided to row it in 40 degree water, and alcohol was involved too.

The miracle of it all was that they just happened to tip over close enough that my parents could save 2 out of the 3 people. It was probably 2 am. They could have flipped anywhere on that lake but it just happened to be somewhere that two people were still awake and capable of doing something.

Even weirder is that during the week and a 1/2 they searched for his body, my stepmom noticed one night that the flashing red light from the tail of a plane was reflecting off the lake surface in a particular spot near our dock. Which is abnormal considering the height of the plane. She said the reflection was there even when the plane was really far away from their location. The next day the boy was found and she said it was around where she saw the reflection. She doesn't lie. She seemed pretty choked up telling me about it.

I would never think that the person dieing would be effected by ego. But perhaps a person left behind by feeling a loss for themselves. A suicide could be used as an example. Say..."How could that person do that to me?". Or, " Were they thinking of how it would effect us left behind?" Didn't he/she love us? That is what I mean with ego. People should get over the loss and remember the good. I also feel little grief when there is a death. I know they will, in most cases, be just fine. Feeling for someone who dies isn't wrong and I am not saying you shouldn't have grief. Just to get over it. Nobody wants anouther to have the attachment of pain or grief for instance. Know one normal anyways.

I think the grief is good because eventually it gets us off our asses in most cases to find an answer for ourselves. I know it did with me.

We lost my girlfriends Nephew in October to a choking game. I always wanted to have a relationship with him but he was distant and really I got the feeling that he was kind of transient somehow. I guess I was right, but it was still a hard time particularly on the family. He was a sweet kid and a hell of a guitar player. I think, like Buddy Holly, he had a new calling and needed to stay on schedule. Thats my take anyway.

Hawkeye, in my case from 1905, the incarnate individual I was held anger at his death at 17 because he was not intending to die.  It was a freak accident and everyone else in the car (five others) only got bumps and bruises, while his head hit an iron rail and cracked his skull.  I had to do an energetic clearing to help the anger he carried to dissipate.  The plan for that lifetime was only to live to 44, but there were contracts with other souls to fill the roles of wife and children, all of whom had to make other arrangements.

The anger was unresolved ego-level frustration, held by the aspect of my soul who was that individual...and who was no longer able to fill his role in that current play of life, thus not getting to participate in the sunset of one of the most celebrated portions of our recent history.   

I do agree that the anger of the living toward those dying, or anger that they have died, seems a little misplaced.  They have gone on to a better place, whether planned or not, and it is our own human ego that gets bent out of shape at their loss.

hawkeye wrote on Apr 19^th, 2010 at 1:12pm:

I would never think that the person dieing would be effected by ego. But perhaps a person left behind by feeling a loss for themselves. A suicide could be used as an example. Say..."How could that person do that to me?". Or, " Were they thinking of how it would effect us left behind?" Didn't he/she love us? That is what I mean with ego. People should get over the loss and remember the good. I also feel little grief when there is a death. I know they will, in most cases, be just fine. Feeling for someone who dies isn't wrong and I am not saying you shouldn't have grief. Just to get over it. Nobody wants anouther to have the attachment of pain or grief for instance. Know one normal anyways.

When my depression got really bad and I was feeling a lot of suicidal thoughts and wishing to not live anymore, I would say the biggest contributor to keeping me stable was the thought of how it would affect everyone else and how selfish it would be of me. I had to just keep the hope that things would get better and they did. Not so much from my life experiences but particularly from my strength of mind. I developed my consciousness to a point that my ego couldn't have that hold on me anymore. My life is certainly not something I can smile at, but I came to the realization that everyones life is exactly what they make of it and I'm enduring the harder parts of life particularly to maintain responsibility and strengthen myself. I make the choices. We could all easily go out and make indulgent decisions to fulfill the "happiness" for the ego and many people do, but I know that isn't the right thing.

Endurance builds strength.

[quote author=547368696244686B6353757262070 link=1271036702/27#27 date=1271864926When my depression got really bad and I was feeling a lot of suicidal thoughts and wishing to not live anymore, I would say the biggest contributor to keeping me stable was the thought of how it would affect everyone else and how selfish it would be of me. I had to just keep the hope that things would get better and they did. Not so much from my life experiences but particularly from my strength of mind. I developed my consciousness to a point that my ego couldn't have that hold on me anymore. My life is certainly not something I can smile at, but I came to the realization that everyones life is exactly what they make of it and I'm enduring the harder parts of life particularly to maintain responsibility and strengthen myself. I make the choices. We could all easily go out and make indulgent decisions to fulfill the "happiness" for the ego and many people do, but I know that isn't the right thing.

Endurance builds strength.[/quote]

Well stated...

Hi again everybody,
thanks for all the superb replies here and a most revealing thread.
Stone - please try to understand the points made here.
If someone dies early on in life its not something to be sad about. There may be many reasons for this. Anyone may choose pre-life to die early as a way of triggering a response in others to be reminded of the more important aspects of existence. The shock of losing a family member well 'before their time' may be an important life lesson.
For a while at least, those left behind may forget all the everyday nonsense that occupies their waking thoughts (who's winning the wrestling tournament, do I have this season's fashions, what's happening in the soap operas on TV) and turn to things of more substance and importance.
Take the case of 9/11 and the effect that it had apart from the politics. I'm maintaining that the folks who died in that may (and I stress may, as I don't know) have volunteered for that experience. It brought a lot of people together in their grief and would be a life experience that they'll never forget. In addition, there are documented reports of those who were trapped in the buildings using their mobiles to say farewell to their loved ones in the most loving ways. And there were the folks who should have been in the Twin Towers that day and weren't due to a variety of circumstances (not in their life plan, so they were 'conveniently' unable to get there that day... the missed train, the flat tire, the unexpected occurrence...)
That's one example.
In addition, I notice from the TV series Band of Brothers that the real guys in World War II who experienced the story described have a bond and love and closeness to each other as a result of their experiences that simply could not be gained in any other way so fast.
Supposedly a war is a very good teaching experience for those involved (-not that I would ever want to go through that -or maybe I have in a past incarnation?). Likewise, I'm sure that Vietnam (and Afghanistan) vets may share that same link through shared experiences and bonding.

Back to the point:
Now if someone dies early on in life and its not part of their life plan, then plan B kicks into action. Perhaps the person they would have married had they lived according to plan meets someone else from the soul group who steps in and fulfills the role originally intended up to the best part of their ability. In another lifetime, they'll, get together with that erstwhile partner and have the marriage that they should have had this time around (if you see what I mean).
On a less harrowing note, I was told in a spirit regression that I had a soul contract with an ex partner to be/work together for the rest of our lives. It didn't work out that way (free will rears its head) and my current wife has stepped in to fulfil the role this time around (plan B?).
That still doesn't stop me regretting that I didn't get the chance to achieve everything I wished to with my ex partner, but I believe that we'll get to do it all again next time around!  :)

In your own case you state that you've adopted the attitude of observer in this life and had to let go of many of your desires. It could be that this is precisely what you chose this time around, and this stance of objective observation has given you a perspective that the folks around you can only guess at. Either way you've clearly progressed to an extraordinary degree.
And I'll point out that you may get to fulfil every one of your desires in another life?

I don't see the afterlife as an R&R place between lifetimes - more on the lines of going home after a day at school. You've learned the lessons (or not) of that day/life, and you get to do it all again and learn new things/correct the old things next day/incarnation.
And you decide not to incarnate again once you feel that you've learned all their is to learn and report back (rather like V'ger in the first Star Trek movie).
As Bob Monroe pointed out in his books, graduates of the Earth Life System have a lot of respect in the universe for  all they have achieved, and that they maintained that everything they went through was worth it for the end result.

Hope you understand this,
Best wishes,

David.

Hi David,

I was blessed for many years not to lose anyone I was not prepared to lose. Then about the time I hit forty an old girl friend of mine was killed in motorcycle accident, though wearing a helmet by a drunk driver of a pick up truck. I was furious about this for a long time. My mother died six weeks later and I really couldn't mourn properly because of Shannon's accident. I had emailed Shannon only days before she died hoping somewhere in my heart that we might get back together. I learned that she had made big plans to marry someone else. That didn't bother me. It just tore me up though that she was no longer in the world. I really loved her and still do.

3 years after my mother passed, may father, drinking day and night and missing her so much died of lung cancer. He was perfectly healthy when she died. He chose to be with her the only way he knew how. They were twin souls from birth. Met at the age of 6. 2 months after my father died my best friend in the whole world committed suicide and she did have a lot of problems. All this got me thinking about the people who touch our lives.

I loved those characters but they are all a part of me. We have to learn to let go of the characters as we are the higher Actor within ourselves. Once we do so we see those people we miss all around us. They are not some incarnate being floating around in the ether. They are other flesh and blood aspects of themselves still here working on a different dimension of their Actor Self. We all play many parts and our act is that Heaven (Earth) ages. We are acting this way. Heaven or whatever is already here, but we must each see it for ourselves. No it's not the same body but that was part of a costume that has been discarded now. You will see you friends again, but it will be their eyes and mannerisms that give them away. Not what they say. They are different characters now taking on a new mission. You could easily hook up with the same Actor who played the person you lost. you just have to pay attention to it. Thats my take.

Yours,
Beau

Hi Beau,
many thanks for the reply. I didn't make it clear in my previous post that my ex partner hasn't passed over. We just split up (as she made the decision to end the relationship) and we're still in touch occasionally some 15 years down the line. I still regret that we didn't continue but my one crumb of comfort is that it's just another chapter in a relationship that's lasted many lifetimes between us.

I hope that's a bit clearer.

Best wishes,
David.