Spiritual intercourse would mean something more specific than universal charity. It would be special communion with the sexually complementary; something a man can have only with a woman and a woman only with a man. We are made complete by such union. The souls in heaven must still take on the aspects of male and female to make spiritual merging and the ecstasy of merging with another compatible soul joyful and glorious

The relationship need not be confined to one in Heaven. , monogamy is for earthly union.

The relationship may not extend to all persons of the opposite sex, at least not in the same way or degree. If it did extend to all, it would treat each differently simply because each is different-sexually as well as in other ways.

I think there must be some special ``kindred souls'' in Heaven that we are designed to feel a special sexual/ heavenly love for. That would be the Heavenly solution to the earthly riddle of why in the world John falls for Mary, of all people, and not for Jane, and why romantic lovers feel their love is fated, ``in the stars'', ``made in Heaven''.  As there are no wicked minds in heaven,

I believe God does put  few restrictions on his perfected heavenly creatures. There are countless soul mates for each person or soul, spirit to experience blissful union and pleasure and it would be boring and meaningless to be confined to one or a few partners given that we have exist in an eternal moment of the ever changing now. “Not this is just something that seems logical to me, not something I know for sure:

It would not feel apart from or opposed to the God-relationship, but a part of it or a consequence of it: His design, the wave of His baton. It would also be totally unself-conscious and unselfish: the ethical goodness of agape external, and without selfishness or animal drives.
We know Heaven by earthly clues.

Let us try to read all the clues in earthly intercourse. It has three levels of meaning: the subhuman, or animal; the superhuman, or divine; and the specifically human. (All three levels exist in us humans.)

Specifically human reasons for intercourse include the desire to express personal love. As to the first, there is no marriage in Heaven.

As there can be no wrong in heaven spiritual, union between any souls like soul must happen.

I think there will probably be millions of more adequate ways to express love than the clumsy ecstasy of fitting two bodies together like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle.

This spiritual intercourse with God is the ecstasy hinted at in all earthly intercourse, physical or spiritual. It is the ultimate reason why sexual passion is so strong, so different from other passions, so heavy with suggestions of profound meanings that just elude our grasp. No mere practical needs account for it.

No mere animal drive explains it. No animal falls in love, writes profound romantic poetry, or sees sex as a symbol of the ultimate meaning of life, sexuality is a foretaste of that self-giving, that losing and finding the self,. That is what we long for; that is why we tremble to stand outside ourselves in the other, to give our whole selves, body and soul: because we are images of God the sexual being.

We love the other sex because God loves God.
In addition, this earthly love is so passionate because Heaven is full of passion, of energy and dynamism... Earthly sex is the shadow, and our lives are a process of thickening so that we can share in the substance, becoming Heavenly fire so that we can endure and rejoice in the Heavenly fire of eternal spiritual sexual union with any soul mate we desire.

Please I am not being dogmatic on this topic but just put it out there for discussion and dialogue.
Regards

Alan

"Spiritual intercourse would mean something more specific than universal charity. It would be special communion with the sexually complementary; something a man can have only with a woman and a woman only with a man. We are made complete by such union. The souls in heaven must still take on the aspects of male and female to make spiritual merging and the ecstasy of merging with another compatible soul joyful and glorious"

You're in body mode. The body is male or female. The spirit, which makes the body move, is already a complete blend of male and female energy. The body doesn't define the energy of beings or there wouldn't be effeminate in a male body, or butch in a female body. Like it or not, in the afterlife, there is nothing but gay. But hey, as it happens it also means cheery: bright and pleasant; promoting a feeling of cheer; "a cheery hello"; "a gay sunny room"; "a sunny smile". Not to say there won't be any "rainy days" beyond earth.

"No animal falls in love, writes profound romantic poetry, or sees sex as a symbol of the ultimate meaning of life[...]"

Experience is the bottom line. Animals (the bodies) have spiritual energy as their core too. A different path. I don't give a rat's ass if their experience don't involve writing poetry as a way to convey affection.

Volu wrote on Mar 4^th, 2010 at 7:08am:

"Spiritual intercourse would mean something more specific than universal charity. It would be special communion with the sexually complementary; something a man can have only with a woman and a woman only with a man. We are made complete by such union. The souls in heaven must still take on the aspects of male and female to make spiritual merging and the ecstasy of merging with another compatible soul joyful and glorious" You're in body mode. The body is male or female. The spirit, which makes the body move, is already a complete blend of male and female energy. The body doesn't define the energy of beings or there wouldn't be effeminate in a male body, or butch in a female body. Like it or not, in the afterlife, there is nothing but gay. But hey, as it happens it also means cheery: bright and pleasant; promoting a feeling of cheer; "a cheery hello"; "a gay sunny room"; "a sunny smile". Not to say there won't be any "rainy days" beyond earth. "No animal falls in love, writes profound romantic poetry, or sees sex as a symbol of the ultimate meaning of life[...]" Experience is the bottom line. Animals (the bodies) have spiritual energy as their core too. A different path. I don't give a rat's ass if their experience don't involve writing poetry as a way to convey affection.

Very nice post, thank you

Alan

Greetings

'Experience is the bottom line,'  absolutely.  That is why Bruce emphasises PUL (Pure Unconditional Love) with his teachings on exploring and retrieving in the afterlife.  He experienced the many aspects of PUL and he wants us also to know it.

Experiencing PUL with another soul is wondrous! When two souls exploring the afterlife meet there, they can immediately sense whether the other is of the opposite gender if they are not there to do a particular task such as retrieving or helping heal, etc. They will also sense the emotional make-up of themself in relation to the other -- at least whether PUL or fear predominates. When PUL predominates, a magnetism increases until the souls approach each other and then seem to meld/ melt together.

Soul bodies have no relatively small protuberances such as fingers, toes, etc. No part need fit into another part--their soul-melding is an entire moving into or overlapping some of the same space. Since their bodies are made of energy, this melding of energies is an amazingly fantastic experience.  I'm generally extremely happy that this is part of my experience of the afterlife !

Desiring these melds above all else in the afterlife will make them impossible to achieve. They are part of a pure, unconditional loving that includes much more than they.  Bruce has done a necessary and thorough job of removing words that will probably cause blockages to our energies--sexual, desire, etc. that are due to our earth-bound frames of mind.  Love is a heavenly gift meant to be shared.

Bets

Bets,

"That is why Bruce emphasises PUL (Pure Unconditional Love) with his teachings on exploring and retrieving in the afterlife.  He experienced the many aspects of PUL and he wants us also to know it. Experiencing PUL with another soul is wondrous!"

Every time I read PUL I'm reminded that it means COPULATE in my language. Banter aside, even though I ultimately view earth as a playground, when others come into my garden, I view the flower turning as an OK to go on. And begging for more would have been a kodak moment polarity wise. Deep affection I can enjoy, but as an incarnation, I don't have affection for someone I don't have affection for. And while I can and do feel affection that cannot be put into words: dish out shit, and that's what's handed back. Can't take the instant balance, then don't dish out. I used to pretend I loved everything and all, but ended up thinking of myself as fake and dishonest in that mode. Beyond earth, I get that discs view the interaction as learning, with no hard feelings, fire nor brimstone. That's what bodies want, raining blood.

"When two souls exploring the afterlife meet there, they can immediately sense whether the other is of the opposite gender if they are not there to do a particular task such as retrieving or helping heal, etc."

Are discs separated into male and female in your view?

"They are part of a pure, unconditional loving that includes much more than they.  Bruce has done a necessary and thorough job of removing words that will probably cause blockages to our energies--sexual, desire, etc. that are due to our earth-bound frames of mind."

Yeah, as with relationships mostly built on body attraction. Plastic and shallow, but a building block for members of a disc whose purpose it is to have basic, which doesn't leave out valuable, experiences. And other members benefit from that and use it for expanding. Probably.

"Love is a heavenly gift meant to be shared."

In the heaven above there are clouds, and the dots don't connect.

I see any view that there is only male and female in the afterlife or in God heaven as homophobic. My truth of the matter is that there will be no difference between the earthly sexes once movement is to a true heaven.(not some bst) You wont have a body to have a specific sex in. IE Male of female. As a matter of fact there will be no sex in the afterlife. There is a bonding of pure love energy, but not sex. In heaven there is no homosexuality, or heterosexuality either. Just love. Only here on earth do we feel the need to classify in these discriminatory and judgemental ways. In heaven you will be free to love anyone you choose. There will be no guilt for doing so. Everyone will rejoice in your love. Especially God, who will not judge you for it, unlike many here on earth who know nothing if the real heaven or the true God but live in a world of doctrine's made up by those wanting power over others .

Alan, you are dialed in to some prolific sources...thanks again for your contributions.

Bets, what you describe sounds absolutely amazing...I look forward to such an experience.

Volu, your bottom line approach is refreshing...PUL = copulate...funny!  I've even encountered that in a lucid dream, and while the emotion was extremely powerful, the details, unlike the rest of the dream, were hazy at best...the action = not important, the message/emotion = critical.

Hawkeye, I believe we have all been male and female in previous incarnations, and in the afterlife we are all we have ever been anyway, so I do not see homo/hetero issues...we are all...

Thats how I see it also usetawuz. We are All.

hawkeye wrote on Mar 4^th, 2010 at 5:42pm:

We are All.

I'm glad you caught that!  It sang to me!

Uhm, in my afterlife we are innocent. Well, there was this one guy out there, sort of, it was real. But, we are innocent, in heaven, I tell you. It's a big, big place, guys, I'm telling you. It's bigger than that.

Hi

Volu, 'PUL = copulate.' Yes, that would be a hard correlation to dismiss. Getting attention stuck on that would, I suspect, to some degree block a person from getting to the fuller meaning of PUL.
Anyway I'm amazed that Moen was able to explain his experiences with a vocabulary cleared of past religious connections.

Regarding Disk Families, I think the Disk tries to keep a balance in its varieties of experience and so wouldn't likely have all its souls / probes choose the same gender at the same time. --Although I suppose it could if it needed to learn something that way.
Is that what you're thinking, that a special lesson could be agreed upon?

V: " I used to pretend I loved everything and all, but ended up thinking of myself as fake and dishonest in that mode." That approach sounds OK to me: 'Fake it til you make it' sounds abit glib and yet it is effective. It keeps one in the flow where possibilities for PUL (the retrieving, equal love for all flow) can still carry one into yet higher vibrations.

V: "In the heaven above there are clouds, and the dots don't connect."  Not from down here they surely don't.  That's why it's worth it to work on getting up into the 'afterlife' to experience such qualities up closer.

Bets

:-*

How's this for a laugh?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8542350.stm

That is a cool story about the Opera House. That weather man rocks.

I like having a body and from my understanding I can make one in the afterlife if I so choose and I can have sex with it if want to either the old fashioned way or the way y'all are talking about which sounds pretty cool too. It all depends on the data stream I choose to process and how I choose to interpret it. I know it sounds kind of fantastic, but after looking at the idea for a while now it has started to make sense to me.
"Sexual Morality" does not exist outside of this location IN MY OPINION. We think it has to do with spiritual enlightenment because we are brought up to believe it and it is reiterated in so much literature on how others have attained higher realms. The Golden Rule, that's where it's at for me, at least it is today. I could change but I got tired of feeling guilty for hard wired feelings a long time ago. My quest is to not judge and that one is hard enough down here.

Yours,
Beau

Beau-

I too like having a body ! I also like the male/female duality thing, maybe I'll hang onto that  particular illusion for a little while longer....

I figure we've got lots of time...if I feel like hanging out in a body for a few lifetimes, or making myself one in the hereafter, I've got plenty of time to play with that before I move on to another level. 

Bets,

"Volu, 'PUL = copulate.' Yes, that would be a hard correlation to dismiss. Getting attention stuck on that would, I suspect, to some degree block a person from getting to the fuller meaning of PUL."

Banter as stated, not =. I'm aware that affection can go beyond the disposable flesh. With relationships where bonking/driving miss daisy/going to hairfordshire/fishing for brown trout is involved, the sensations of touching, smooching and flapping flesh become routine, and just having a physical attraction isn't a long lasting glue.

"Is that what you're thinking, that a special lesson could be agreed upon?"

I wondered if you viewed discs as gendered.

"V: " I used to pretend I loved everything and all, but ended up thinking of myself as fake and dishonest in that mode." That approach sounds OK to me: 'Fake it til you make it' sounds abit glib and yet it is effective. It keeps one in the flow where possibilities for PUL (the retrieving, equal love for all flow) can still carry one into yet higher vibrations."

Different approaches. I honestly don't feel equal love for all. No PUL, and no lip service for it.

"Not from down here they surely don't.  That's why it's worth it to work on getting up into the 'afterlife' to experience such qualities up closer."

The dot connecting was love as a heavenly gift when it can be found within instead of searching for a package on a distant shore. Going past the river to collect water. Agree with afterlife experience being a worthy goal. A simple way is to will the dream canvas away when lucid dreaming and then go on exploring.

Hi V,

Regarding "having a physical attraction isn't a long lasting glue."
I agree,
and to be clear these soul melds aren't really a physical attraction as there's nothing very physical there. Someone posted that they sensed an egg-like form during soul melds. If she was talking about the lightbodies, I agree with her that they're oval and have edges or boundaries that can be merged. But it's not a partnering or pairing---more a sense of partaking in a great force that is More than either individual.
I want you to know, Volu, that there is More. We are All  able to access this More.
Your descriptions of flapping etc are very dramatic but they avoid the truth of the stronger force that can be experienced while in a less physical body.

By the time a person actually experiences the Disk Family they have discarded about three layers of body, so gender gets thrown out also. While with the Disk they can make plans to meet physically in gender-specific bodies, so they don't forget gender while they're there in their Disk.

V., you suggest: ' A simple way is to will the dream canvas away when lucid dreaming and then go on exploring.'  That sounds intriguing!  Is that a hypothetical idea or have you tried it yet?
Yet something within (soul?) finds these afterlife concepts so attractive that it so enthusiastically returns to the same themes / archetypes  again and again without prompting.  Can I really take that away from it now that it has found something so apparently important to it? ( For example, lost loved ones, the Park, the Reception Center, the shore of 'the Sea of Forgetting. )

Bets

Bets,

"Someone posted that they sensed an egg-like form during soul melds. If she was talking about the lightbodies, I agree with her that they're oval and have edges or boundaries that can be merged. But it's not a partnering or pairing---more a sense of partaking in a great force that is More than either individual. I want you to know, Volu, that there is More. We are All  able to access this More. Your descriptions of flapping etc are very dramatic but they avoid the truth of the stronger force that can be experienced while in a less physical body."

I find the flapping etc wording funny, not dramatic. Saying that I've noticed the outline of an eye is oval sure isn't a comprehensive guide to everything. Describing one physical aspect doesn't leave out more physical or non-physical aspects, unless stated there are no more.

"A simple way is to will the dream canvas away when lucid dreaming and then go on exploring.'  That sounds intriguing!  Is that a hypothetical idea or have you tried it yet?"

Or done it, yep.

"Yet something within (soul?) finds these afterlife concepts so attractive that it so enthusiastically returns to the same themes / archetypes  again and again without prompting.  Can I really take that away from it now that it has found something so apparently important to it? ( For example, lost loved ones, the Park, the Reception Center, the shore of 'the Sea of Forgetting. )"

You decide what you to take away from it. Not sure what you mean by the shore of the sea of forgetting?

There is a beautiful merging, emerging, consolidating, reflecting advancing and retracting of both like souls and unlike souls, the afterlife is not a boring heaven, but a place of learning meaning and purpose

I will be ready to apply some meaning and purpose when I get out of here, I hope.

Hi

Various peoples' experiences in the afterlife so often seem to include some of the same activities and sights, for example, soul melding, lost loved ones, the Park, the Reception Center, the shore of 'the Sea of Forgetting.'
Am not sure where that term 'the Sea of Forgetting' comes from but it refers to the misty sea in front of the Reception Center that so many of us see while we're in route to the afterlife. While passing over it we seem to lose the disbelief and pain that are so heavy during physical life.
I've tried to clear my mind of earthly concerns before seeking a session in the afterlife but apparently I'm not good Buddhist material because I always slip into a retrieval or some other non-physical visit. How does one avoid such archetypes or interruptions?

Betson

betson wrote on Mar 8^th, 2010 at 11:02pm:

Hi Various peoples' experiences in the afterlife so often seem to include some of the same activities and sights, for example, soul melding, lost loved ones, the Park, the Reception Center, the shore of 'the Sea of Forgetting.' Am not sure where that term 'the Sea of Forgetting' comes from but it refers to the misty sea in front of the Reception Center that so many of us see while we're in route to the afterlife. While passing over it we seem to lose the disbelief and pain that are so heavy during physical life. I've tried to clear my mind of earthly concerns before seeking a session in the afterlife but apparently I'm not good Buddhist material because I always slip into a retrieval or some other non-physical visit. How does one avoid such archetypes or interruptions? Betson

Hi dear Betson has you email address changed please email me so I can pick it up (Sorry guys for this private remark the PM system does not seem to be working)

Bets,

"[...] I've tried to clear my mind of earthly concerns before seeking a session in the afterlife but apparently I'm not good Buddhist material because I always slip into a retrieval or some other non-physical visit. How does one avoid such archetypes or interruptions?"

Ok. Thanks for explaining about the shore. I guess there are many nuances to this, and certainly more than I can dive into being an extension. If retrievals are what you enjoy, then why avoid it? :) If you see it as an interruption, and want to add other explorations, not excluding retrievals from the mix; my sense is that discs operating the extensions are far from helpless, but at the same that time that for some of their extensions experiences with retrieving (and being retreived) are part of their path/purpose. - Maybe some sort of feeling of obligation? Do you feel less good if you also want to add time to care for your self?