http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2zqaGIY5PU

Bill Wiese 23 minutes in Hell

One night I was catapulted to the very pit of hell--a terrible place of grotesque creatures, toxic fumes, and terrible darkness.

23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese--Hell demons punishment torment Christian afterlife - Beliefnet.com

On November 22, 1998... I was catapulted out of my bed into the very pit of hell. My point of arrival was a cell that was approximately fifteen feet high by ten feet wide with a fifteen-foot depth.

With its walls of rough stone and rigid bars on the door, I felt as though I was in a temporary holding area, a place where a prisoner would await his final hours before meeting a far more terrifying destiny. Isaiah 24:22 says, "And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison" (KJV). Proverbs 7:27 refers to "chambers" of death in hell.

As I lay there on the floor of that cell, I felt extremely weak. I noticed that I had a body, one that appeared just as it is now. Lifting my head, I began to look around. Immediately I realized that I was not alone in this cell. I saw two enormous beasts, unlike anything I had ever seen before.

These creatures were approximately ten to thirteen feet tall. These towering beasts were far, far beyond intimidating. It is one thing to be threatened by someone much taller than you. But these creatures were not of this natural world.

I recognized that they were entirely evil, and they were gazing at me with pure, unrestrained hatred, which completely paralyzed me with fear. "Evil" and "Terror" stood before me. Those creatures were an intensely concentrated manifestation of those two forces.

I still had no idea where I was, and I felt utterly panicked. Although I had no point of reference, no familiarity with anything I was experiencing, and no understanding of how I got here, still I was faced with the unimaginable reality that a tortuous death seemed certain.

The creatures weren't animals, but they weren't human, either. Each giant beast resembled a reptile in appearance, but took on human form. Their arms and legs were unequal in length, out of proportion—without symmetry. The first one had bumps and scales all over its grotesque body. It had a huge protruding jaw, gigantic teeth, and large sunken-in eyes.

This creature was stout and powerful, with thick legs and abnormally large feet. It was pacing violently around the cell like a caged bull, and its demeanor was extremely ferocious. The second beast was taller and thinner, with very long arms and razor-sharp fins that covered its body.

Protruding from its hands were claws that were nearly a foot long. Its personality seemed different from the first being. It was certainly no less evil, but it remained rather still.

I could hear the creatures speaking to each other. Although I could not identify what language it was, somehow I could understand their words. They were awful words—terrible, blasphemous language that spewed from their mouths expressing extreme hatred for God.

Suddenly they turned their attention toward me. They looked like hungry predators staring at their prey. I was terrified. Like an insect in a deadly spider's web, I felt helpless, trapped, and frozen with fear. I knew I had become the object of their hostility, and I felt a violent, evil presence such as I had never felt before and greater than anything I could imagine.

They possessed a hatred that far surpassed any hatred a person could have, and now that hatred was directed straight at me. I couldn't identify what these beasts were yet, but I knew they meant me harm.

I knew that it was much more than physical weakness I was feeling. Indeed, it was weakness of every form. I was mentally and emotionally drained, even though I had only been there a few minutes.

Most of us have experienced a loss of strength and energy after intense weeping, emotional distress, or grief. After a time of healing, we regain that strength though it may take years. However, at that moment I felt that there would never be a time for recuperating from the literal weight that had fallen upon me—a weight of hopeless despair.

Two more creatures came into the cell, and I had the feeling that these four beings had been "assigned" to me. I felt as though I was being "sized up" and that my torment would be their amusement. As they entered, suddenly the light vanished.

It became absolutely pitch black. I had no idea why the sudden and intense darkness had begun. But I sensed that the light that had been present had been an intrusion and that the atmosphere had now returned to its normal state of darkness. Lamentations 3:6 states: "He has set me in dark places like the dead of long ago."

One of the creatures picked me up. The strength of the beast was amazing. I was comparable to the weight of a water glass in its hand. Mark 5:3-4 describes a man possessed with a demon with these words: "...no one could bind him, not even with chains...the chains had been pulled apart by him, and the shackles broken in pieces." Instinctively,

I knew that the creature holding me had strength approximately one thousand times greater than a man. I cannot explain how I perceived that bit of information.

Then the beast threw me against the wall. I crumbled onto the floor. It felt as though every bone in my body had been broken.' I felt pain, but it was as if the pain was being somehow softened. I knew I did not experience the full brunt of the pain. I thought, How was it blocked?

The second beast, with its razor-like claws and sharp protruding fins, then grabbed me from behind in a bear hug. As it pressed me into its chest, its sharp fins pierced my back. I felt like a rag doll in its clutches in comparison to his enormous size. He then reached around and plunged his claws into my chest and ripped them outward. My flesh hung from my body like ribbons as I fell again to the cell floor.

These creatures had no respect for the human body—how remarkably it is made. I have always taken care of myself by eating right, exercising, and staying in shape, but none of that mattered as my body was being destroyed right before my eyes.

I knew that I could not escape this torture via death, for not even that was an option. Death penetrated me, but eluded me. The creatures seemed to derive pleasure in the pain and terror they inflicted upon me.

Psalm 116:3 (KVJ) says, "The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell got hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow." Oh, how I yearned for death, but there would be none.

The Living Dead

I pleaded for mercy, but they had none—absolutely no mercy. They seemed to be incapable of it. They were pure evil. No mercy existed in that place. Mercy is from God in heaven.

The mental anguish I felt was indescribable. Asking for mercy from such evil only seemed to heighten their desire to torment me more.

I was conscious of the fact that there was no fluid coming from my wounds. No blood, no water, nothing. At this time, I did not stop to wonder why. I was extremely nauseous from the terrible, foul stench coming from these creatures. It was absolutely disgusting, foul, and rotten. It was, by far, the most putrid smells I have ever encountered.

If you could take every rotten thing you can imagine, such as an open sewer, rotten meat, spoiled eggs, sour milk, dead rotting animal flesh, and sulfur, and magnify it a thousand times, you might come close. This is not an exaggeration. The odor was actually extremely toxic, and that alone should have killed me.

Instinctively, I just knew that some of the things I experienced were a thousand times worse than what would be possible on the earth's surface—things such as the odors mentioned, the strength of the demons, the loudness of the screams, the dryness, and the loneliness felt.

Somehow I managed to move a bit and dragged myself across the ground toward the barred door. I couldn't see, but I remembered the direction of the door that had been left open. I finally made it to the door and crawled out of the cell. Apparently, the creatures allowed me to crawl out without stopping me.

As soon as I exited the cell, my first instinct was to get as far away as possible. Again, I desperately wanted to run. All I could think of was to get up onto my feet. However, every move to get up took great effort. I remember wondering, Why is this so difficult?

After tremendous exertion, I was finally able to stand. I was thoroughly exhausted and, at the same time, very frustrated at how hard simple movement had become. Although I was now outside the cell, I could not run, and fear continued to bind itself around me as a snake constricting its prey.

I was horrified as I heard the screams of an untold multitude of people crying out in torment. It was absolutely deafening. The terror-filled screams seemed to go right through me, penetrating my very being. I once heard about a television special where a news reporter spent the night in a prison just to experience prison life firsthand.

The prisoners were crying, moaning, and yelling all night long. He stated that he couldn't sleep because of all the noise. This place where I now stood was far, far worse.

Through the panic and the deafening noise, I struggled to gather my thoughts. I'm in hell! This is a real place, and I'm actually here! I frantically tried to understand, but it was just so inconceivable. Not me, I'm a good person, I thought.

The fear was so intense I couldn't bear it, but again, I couldn't die. I knew that most people up on the surface of the earth did not believe or even know that there was a whole world going on down here. They wouldn't believe it. But here it existed, and it was all too real. This place was so terrifying, so intense, and so hostile that it would be impossible for me to exaggerate the horror.

Was he lying or was he insane or is there some truth to it??


Peace?????????


Alan

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Alan,

I think there is his own truth to it. In his subconscious this what he expected to find. I have read some accounts where I just thought the people were making it up to try and forward their own agenda on Heaven and Hell, but if we take this man at his word then I believe he has fallen into a belief system of his own creation. The psalm helped him because he believed it would. If the afterlife is subjective as many of us believe here then this is one perhaps valid conclusion that can be drawn.

hi alan and beau  my x husband treated me so bad and the other night i had this bad dream but it was very real,i dreamed he was coming up the stairs and as he reached me, there were all these bad spirits after me ,i was so scared when i opened my eyes, as when i had been to the spiritualist church a few days before, spirit had said to me through the medium that my xhusband has not changed his ways at all upon this earth plain.i wondered when he passes to spirit maybe hes looking at something like that hell experience if he dont change his bad ways.

love and god bless   love juditha

hi alan and beau  i found this as well

the author is Florence Marryat ,more of her novels are finding their way back into publication.the title of her book "The Dead Man’s Message"

i say she has got this right and so has the one who had the hell experience.

message that sins in life will not go unpunished in the spirit world.The plot is a straightforward one: Professor Aldwyn is a man of science, a vivisectionist. He cares only for his scientific work and his own pleasures, neglecting his beautiful young second wife Ethel, and his two late-teenaged children Maddy and Gilbert, in the process. Indeed, ‘neglect’ is too kind a word. He actively emotionally abuses them, culminating in his throwing presents given to Ethel by a cousin out of the window, and driving his son out into the streets. Marryat herself suffered at the hands of an abusive husband, so her portrayal of The Professor’s behaviour is vivid, realistic, and chilling.

After the fight, the Professor goes for a nap, but wakes in the early hours of the morning to find that he has, in fact, died. His cold body is still in the chair as the spirit Professor wanders about the room in horror at his predicament.

It was not a nightmare, then; he actually was dead. Well, it was the most curious thing that had ever occurred to him. Where was hell, and where was heaven? Should he never be able to get away from that room? What was the matter with him, that he could not fly? This was totally opposite from everything that he had ever been told of the change called death. (p. 29)

His guardian angel appears at his side and explains that because he behaved so appallingly during his physical life, he cannot progress to the upper realms of the spirit world until he has suffered and atoned for his actions. He is made to watch as his wife, daughter, and ‘friends’ express relief that he has died, and he is not allowed to talk to the spirit of his first wife, Susan, until he has been purified in the eyes of God.

love and god bless  love juditha

wrote on Jan 25^th, 2010 at 3:29pm:

hi alan and beau  my x husband treated me so bad and the other night i had this bad dream but it was very real,i dreamed he was coming up the stairs and as he reached me, there were all these bad spirits after me ,i was so scared when i opened my eyes, as when i had been to the spiritualist church a few days before, spirit had said to me through the medium that my xhusband has not changed his ways at all upon this earth plain.i wondered when he passes to spirit maybe hes looking at something like that hell experience if he dont change his bad ways. love and god bless   love juditha

During my Near Death Experience, I saw hell like realms, maybe they were generated due to my expectations . I feel subjectively that there should be an afterlife punishment for evil people

In a sense I agree with you, Alan about there being some kind of Punishment in the afterlife. I believe that I can have a part of my higher self that has some kind of unkind tendencies but that the pure higher self of which I am a part is not affected any more than it feels like a role that has been played out on the stage. The subjectivity comes into play for the portion, if you will, of the higher self that has committed such horrendous acts. If it knows it has done so it cannot help but punish itself because the higher self is overlooking the whole aspect of the being. Punishment is not really the term I would use. I would say it is more about learning to understand why actions taken were not reflective of  PUL and learning that PUL is the goal.

There are countless comparable hellish NDEs, many of which are collected by cardiologist, Dr. Maurice Rawlings in his two books on the subject.  Few of these people are lying.  But it is wishful thinking to chalk this up to realized Christian expectations.  What about the many atheists who have very similar experiences?  They don't even believe in an afterlife.  And might we not similarly dismiss New Age experiences of Soul Disks, Focus 27, and Hollow Heavens as hallucinated fantasies that fit nicely with a New Age and mediumistic party line?  The biggest single barrier to progress in astral exploration is our inability to develop criteria for distinguishing genuine encounters with astral planes where discarnates of a certain type dwell and poorly understood states of consciousness that have nothing to do with postmortem survival.  We must not simply embrace astral maps that fit our preconceptions and preferences and dismiss those that don't fit as hallucinations with a sectarian bias.

Don    

I tend to agree with Beau that such realities have a highly subjective constructed element to them. Very few athiests have an upbringing which is free from religious indoctrination- indeed often their atheism may be a reaction to such an upbringing with its vivid imagery and heaven/hell duality...

The point that more 'new agey' environments are also a subjective construct may be valid but I know which environment I'd rather hang out in if I have the choice !

As my old chemistry teacher Dr Taylor used to say - 'you pays yer money and you makes yer choice !'.

D

Berserk2 wrote on Jan 25^th, 2010 at 10:56pm:

There are countless comparable hellish NDEs, many of which are collected by cardiologist, Dr. Maurice Rawlings in his two books on the subject.  Few of these people are lying.  But it is wishful thinking to chalk this up to realized Christian expectations.  What about the many atheists who have very similar experiences?  They don't even believe in an afterlife.  And might we not similarly dismiss New Age experiences of Soul Disks, Focus 27, and Hollow Heavens as hallucinated fantasies that fit nicely with a New Age and mediumistic party line?  The biggest single barrier to progress in astral exploration is our inability to develop criteria for distinguishing genuine encounters with astral planes where discarnates of a certain type dwell and poorly understood states of consciousness that have nothing to do with postmortem survival.  We must not simply embrace astral maps that fit our preconceptions and preferences and dismiss those that don't fit as hallucinations with a sectarian bias. Don

Hi Don,

Do you believe in hell???

Alan

The following is an excerpt from Dr. Rawlings' book To Hell and Back:

I was giving CPR to a patient when the following incident occurred. I inserted a pacemaker through the shoulder and guided it through the vain into Charlie's heart. His heart stopped so I began to pound on the his heart, but as I did blood spurted out, I stopped to adjust the pacemaker.

And as I did, Charlie's eyes would roll back in his head, he would sputter, turn blue, and convulse. This happened several times. Once while I was stopped to adjust the pacemaker Charlie screamed, 'Don't stop, don't stop, I'm in Hell, I'm in Hell.' Hallucinations, I thought at first, but most victims say, 'Take your big hands off me, your breaking my ribs,' but he was saying the opposite 'For Gods sake don't stop! Don't you understand, every time you stop I'm in Hell.

When he asked me to pray for him I felt downright insulted. I told him to shut up, I'm a doctor, not a minister or a psychiatrist. Then the nurse gave me that expectant look. What would you do? That's when I composed a make believe prayer. I made him repeat the prayer to keep him off my back. Say it! Jesus Christ son of God, Keep me out of Hell. And a very strange thing took place. He was no longer that wild-eyed screaming lunatic. It was then that I too became a Christian."

I still say it's a belief system, but it's just my opinion and my experience. I remember how these stories used to scare me when I was a child and even a bit older, but now I see things differently. If you believe prayer will spare you from Hell then it will, sure, that makes sense. If you are afraid to die then those fears can manifest as just about anything. It's an intense scene I'm sure and a Heart Attack is a sucky way to go to say the least with lots of adrenaline... But simply I say it's a subjective experience of the sub conscious...especially in the earliest stages.

It is indeed important to research the negative NDEs and understand them.  However, some have an agenda associated with either reports of heaven or hell.  I reviewed Dr. Rawlings statements on the web and several religious websites, and lets just say he does not come up as an impartial researcher, and his warnings about hell appear more like scare tactics than anything else, for the first four cases he cites all were immediately lifted out of a hell upon asking for help from Christ.  Now I am all for the notion of divine grace, but something is going on in Dr. Rawling's particular case histories.  While he certainly would catalogue cases, one would expect some cases to have been different than described, just by random chance.  We would get a group of reports similar to other NDE researchers (PMH Atwater, etc.).  Indeed, as a physician myself with some Emergency room experience, I can say that it seems that Dr. Rawling's had an inordinately large number of hellbound NDEs sent his way...........hmmmmm.  A number of websites he is associated with have a "scare tactic" posted, telling folks to convert now, etc. before its too late and they are in Hell.  Some websites which he participates with embrace a fear tactics, "read about hell" scenario, which I abhor.

From all we know about from this site, NDEs and other experiences, this is not the road to heaven.  The "faith alone" doctrine, or idea that anyone can get immediate salvation by asking for it, is highly debated, even in the religious Christian community.   

If a person's actions were deserving of a post mortem fate that would be hellish, how is a quick supplication going to change the underlying amount of love in their spirit?  Perhaps for a few, there may be a heavenly invoking of grace, but in general karma, and the principals of like attracting like don't have a "get out of hell free card." 

i.e. - if you are sadistic, unloving, selfish, self centered, then after death, you initially may be frightened, of others who are like that.  But over time, after the mask of civility and society falls off, you gravitate toward others like yourself.

It has been proposed by Swedenborg and others, that most people initially go to a beautiful realm, ("the Park") even if their eventual destination, willingly will be a hell.  That is for a number of reasons.  Initially, when a person dies, they have their "outward" nature, the societal mask and trappings we acquire being on the planet earth (Freud's supergo), and our "inner, true nature" which is really a distillation of what our deepest truest love at the time is.  For those who are sadistic, initially the outward nature may allow them visits from loved ones and reflection.  But soon this nature which was acquired on earth, falls off.  At that point, the person may find their way toward others who are of a like mind. 

I think it makes sense to explore, but not to fear.  Certainly no one should take up a belief system based on a fear of hell.  Nor should one take up a system based on only the idea of entering the pearly gates.  Rather, it makes the most sense to be good to others, to express love, and to not act out of selfishness or ego.

Matthew

When I have a migraine I have awful visions. They are part of the illness, part of the migraine symptoms. When I am angry I have awful visions. They are part of the emotional imaginative scenarios created by a brain confused by circumstances. Etc. etc. Part of my confidence that these 'visions of hell' are not actually real comes from comparing nightmares to these types of experiences. Perhaps those who consider dying a 'skill' are not far off. Being able to find an 'observer' focus when subjected to unwanted 'visions' can be helpful, and I do not claim to know how to do this 24/7. But, it is possible. I remember the quotation that goes along the lines, something like this: most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be. I think there is some truth to that. Not that I know. But that's what I suspect.


Beau wrote on Jan 26^th, 2010 at 1:10pm:

I still say it's a belief system, but it's just my opinion and my experience. I remember how these stories used to scare me when I was a child and even a bit older, but now I see things differently. If you believe prayer will spare you from Hell then it will, sure, that makes sense. If you are afraid to die then those fears can manifest as just about anything. It's an intense scene I'm sure and a Heart Attack is a sucky way to go to say the least with lots of adrenaline... But simply I say it's a subjective experience of the sub conscious...especially in the earliest stages.

This is one of the descriptions of NDEs Dr. Rawlings quotes that I take issue with:

From page 75.

(one of Dr. Rawlings patients talking) "I was guided to a place in the spirit world called Hell. This is a place of punishment for all those who reject Jesus Christ. I not only saw Hell, but felt the torment that all who go there experience. The darkness of Hell is so intense that it seems to have a pressure per square inch. It is an extremely black, dismal, desolate, pressurized, heavy, type of darkness. It gives the individual a despondent feeling of loneliness. The heat is a dry, dehydrating type: your eyeballs are so dry they feel like red hot coals in there sockets. Your tongue and lips are parched and cracked with intense heat. ... The loneliness of Hell cannot be expressed."

I see, so the ND experiencer was saying that this Hell was meant for all non-Christians.  Note, the passage didn't mention love at all, or the idea that if one were loving, one would be on the same way of thinking as Jesus (that loving pagans could enter heaven). 


M

I take issue with such statements, too.

"place of punishment for all those who reject Jesus Christ":

It's nothing but a stupid threat, and I can't believe so many people take it so seriously. If it weren't being taught to children, maybe they wouldn't grow up and see these things when they died. However, Christianity is only one source of these kinds of stories. It is painfully obvious from examples like this writer that people's visions are used for whatever agenda is important to the religious and political leaders at the time.

Isn't it true that some folks believe that without 'threats' it is not possible to enforce 'order'? Perhaps this is the underlying logic which needs to be examined.

Someone I know was trying to 'rationalize' the earthquake in Haiti last week. I wonder if 'God' was 'doing' this, that, blah blah blah. Before you know it, some half-grown explanation based on the Bible was off and running in this person's head. Wow, not only was that easier than thinking about the event more realistically and constructively, but it was more fun! Isn't it a lot more fun to make up a story about it than look at what actually happened? Yes, of course it is.

What I question is the stories we accept. These religious interpretations of 'life and death' are too confusing to people. What's the point of a story to illustrate how to 'live well' if on the next page there is some kind of frightening illustration of what will happen if we 'misinterpret' or (heavens to betsy) don't actually 'believe' what we're told.

'Disbelief' must be terribly disorderly, for people to be so incredibly frightened of it.

Although I can believe that Jesus was a spiritually advanced teacher I find it difficult to believe that Truth was revealed only once and to a limited set of the world's population- consigning the rest of humanity to damnation. I think the Almighty is bigger than that.

Matthew,

Of course, the NDEs of Rawlings' patients are a separate issue from Rawlings acquired spin. He addresses the problem of the ratio of negative to positive experiences by making 3 meaningful points: (1) As a cardiologist, he is actually present during the NDEs, unlike most NDE researchers.  (2) Rawlings finds that most hellish NDEs are so painful that the memory represses them afterwards.  But he hears these reports before the repression sets in.  (3) People who "went to Hell" are far less likely to report this because of the perceived inevitable stigma. 

As you know, NDEs often inseparably weave fact (experience) and interpretation.  Many who have hellish experiences are scared into a Christian commitment.  They join a Fundamentalist church.  Then the doctrines of that church color the reformulation of the hellish planes they encountered in their NDE. 

Hellish NDEs are commonly reported that fit the description of Rawlings' cases.  In my view, there is no doubt that these experiences point to a very real spirit plane.  The precise limits of who does nad does not go there is hopelessly elusive and is based on religious preconceptions.  What we must not do is rationalize on the grounds that experience follows expectations because, in many cases, this is provably false.  More promising is the biblical and Swedenborgian principle that like attracts like.  Both heavenly and hellish planes are multi-layered and subject to gradual transitions.  Stark contrasts between a simplistic view of heaven and hell are usually misleading.  Of this I am certain:  New Age descriptions of astral planes are also severely limited by wishful thinking and preconceptions.  The only way such ideological impasses can be breached is through a cooperative effort of astral explorers with every conceivable religious, New Age, and secular viewpoints.  Only in that way can problems created by interpretive overlays (e. g. higher self; past life recall) have a chance of being sorted out.   

Don

Don,

Have you considered from the descriptions of hellish NDEs why some people find themselves in hells, but find them so oppressive (difficult to breath, foul, etc.)and so offensive?  Since like attracts like, you'd expect the hell to suit their state of love/mind.   I offer one of three possibilities:

1.  If the person were truly unloving, the hellish plane might be a welcome place to be.  For those in tune with their "hatefulness," hell would not seem oppressive or foul.

2.  If the person's superego or "outward" state was good, it may be this superficial outward aspect of the hellbound was appalled and mortified by the NDE, although their "inner" state would have been unloving, & quite comfortable in that area of hell.  If they had a NDE, and were somehow in an afterlife plane, they might not have enough time to let go of their "outward" nature, and thus feel the negative aspects of hell.

3.  In some cases, if the person were a loving soul, they might, under some circumstances, be allowed, through heavenly grace to visit a hell, in order to bring that experience back to the world (such as Howard Storm, or even Dante). 


Matthew

I have a little trouble in believing that anyone's inner/true nature is bad. When I remember people in my life who could be described thus (selfish, grasping, cruel etc.) it always seem that is the result of certain sponsoring thoughts; predominately what can be broadly described as 'there's not enough'. For example for a miser there's never enough money, for a cruel person love's in short supply, for an ambitious state leader there's not enough land etc etc. Surely if these sponsoring thoughts are illusory ( which I believe) then when the illusion goes the 'nature' of the person changes. I can understand that when a person dies they could hold onto those dominant thoughts for a time post-death but I find it hard to believe that such thinking represents their 'real' nature. Maybe I'm just a hopeless idealist !

D :)

hi i dont know if im right or wrong here but i have always felt that hellish nde's are a message to those who have been very unkind and selfish abusive murdered and have never felt remorse for there acts against humankind because a lot of hellish nde's have made this person when he/she comes back to the earth plain change into loving caring human beings.

i think its god's way of saying     "heh stop right there mate,this is the hell you are creating for yourself,try a little harder to love your neighbour because i noticed through your experience,that you were crying for my help,but i have always walked beside you and have known that somewhere in your soul there is hope faith and my unconditional love to help your soul to progress into knowing, you can be saved for yourself as i gave you freewill to do this

i only ask that you look in yourself and by calling for my help know that love is all you need to feel and all you need to share and that alone is an acheivement and no matter where you walk,you will always walk in the light of your love and mine".

i feel this is what god would say.

love and god bless  love juditha

I once read an NDE which seemed to clear it up a bit. A boy drowned in cold water. He said he found himself in a hellish environment with little creatures gnawing on him, but when he asked for help, the light appeared and he was taken to "heaven".
Little creatures gnawing; this really is what cold water feels like. If you're in a state where you're still connected to your body but you're not able to see, that's probably the picture that would come to you.
I don't think this explains all hellish NDEs, but may be some.

Vagabound

okay, I want to share something that is from some pendulum work I have done while contacting my "spirit guide". I recently decided to ask some very pointed questions regarding the after life. Let me preface by saying most of these answers were VERY unexpected and unwanted and DO NOT go along with societies' politically correct viewpoints. Take from this what you will.

Question 1: Is there a Heaven?
Answer: Yes
Question 2: Is it pearly gates, golden streets and angels on harps etc. etc.?
Answer: No
Question 3: Is heaven more like a Earth experience but w/out pain, work and with everything you could ever want?
Answer: yes
Question 4: Do animals go to heaven?
Answer: yes
Question 5: Do only Christian go to heaven?
Answer: no
Question 6: So, are there many other religions in Heaven?
Answer: yes
Question 7: Is there a hell?
Answer: yes
Question 8: Is hell like the fire and brimstone type of hell cliche?
Answer: yes
Question 9: Is hell a physical location?
Answer: yes
Question 10: Is it at the center of the earth?
Answer: yes
Question 11: Do homosexuals go to heaven?
Answer: no
Question 12: So if you're gay you go to hell?
Answer: yes
Question 13: You go to hell even if your a theist homosexual?
Answer: yes
Question 14: Is Jesus God?
Answer: yes.
Question 15: Is there life on other planets?
Answer: yes.
Question 16: Does this life on other planets have the same heave and hell?
Answer: yes.
Question 17: is wicca an acceptable religion in heaven?
Answer: no
Question 18: If you do witchcraft you go to hell?
Answer: yes
Question: 19: What if you are a "sinner" and do these hell-bound act, can you repent to God or the Source or whatever you call it and save your soul from hell?
Answer: yes
Question 20: Is pendulum work, like what I'm doing now to contact my angels or spirit guides considered wrong in Gods eyes?
Answer: no (phew!)

I asked more question of which didn't pertain to this topic so I will just stop here. Like I said, a lot of the answers I received were unexpected. I had theorized that hell was the type of afterlife you got if you felt you deserved it, where each hell was different. Heaven to me would be more like the answer I got, similar to "Focus 27". And having friends and a sister who is gay I really didn't like the answer I got but have to accept that maybe it's right.  I've also been known to dabble in spellcraft too and was surprised by the answer, but then again, not really surprised at all. I guess we won't know until our day comes. The phrase "Choose Wisely" seems to feel appropriate here.  ;)

If gay people aren't welcome in 'heaven' or anyplace else 'better' people go, those will be places I won't be spending a lot of time in.

I don't care what that pendulum gets 'right', I would toss the thing in the river.

we always want to believe what we want to believe. I won't be getting rid of that pendulum, but thanks. good luck.

hi i would say that if you go to hell when you sin,then there must be one hell of a queue waiting to go through the gates of hell,because each one of us and that means every human being on this earth plain have all got skeletons in the cupboard.

spirit is love and god is love and whatever we all are,be it homosexaul lesbian religion or green with white spots,spirit are not interested, only that how much we have loved on this plain and how much we are loved on this plain and everyone's life review is so that they can understand themselves in everything and not to be judged,and every thought they have had,everything they have done,good/bad and not be judged.

its people that know they treat other human beings like crap during their life reveiw, feel nothing but there are the few that do,but they have to work harder to know what loves all about.

hell is a man made word,in the spirit world there is a plain,where its cold damp unloving and no light in the darkness,and these higher spirits visit this plain at times and open there arms and say"who wants to be saved" and those that go to these spirits are lifted up onto another plain where they learn to know of there hatred,which with spirit's help is turned to love,so there is always hope for these people,but theres the downside,some are so evil that they turn away from the love and light of these higher spirits,but spirit never give up on them, as god's love is unconditional.

love and god bless   love juditha

how do you know all this, Juditha? Is this from personal experience of the afterlife or is it just your belief system?

hi nini   i have spoken with many mediums over the years and also i just seem to know this and sense this from spirit and also doris stokes was a very genuine medium and she had written about these things,no soul is ever turned away who want to change and feel love.

i have and do commune with spirit and i have learned many things.

love and god bless   love juditha